Eyrie (pronunciation)

[Guy Barry]

How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
besides these two.

--
Guy Barry

[Harrison Hill]

"airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".

[Peter Young]

+1

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Re)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Peter Moylan]

On 05/11/14 20:18, Peter Young wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
>>> Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
>>> dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
>>> besides these two.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guy Barry
>
>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>
> +1

For me, the one that rhymes with "fiery".

Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
explain that.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

[Derek Turner]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:57:39 +0000, Guy Barry wrote:

> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
> pronounced it the same as "eerie"

Me too (BrE)

[R H Draney]

Peter Young filted:

>
>On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
>>> Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
>>> dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
>>> besides these two.
>

>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>
>+1

Me as well, and if you're MINMINM that rhymes with "Mary", not with "marry" or
"merry"....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[HVS]

On 05 Nov 2014, R H Draney wrote

"Airy" for me, as well.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[Peter T. Daniels]

Is that your spelling of <aerie>?

[Traddict]

"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion : RLk6w.655433$3F6.5...@fx02.am4...

Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as "air" in
"airy") refers to both an area and an eerie. It could therefore be that
"eerie" is just a variation of "area," which would account for the
apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."

[Traddict]

"Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...

>
>
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de groupe
> de discussion : RLk6w.655433$3F6.5...@fx02.am4...
>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of
>> the Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye").
>> The dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also
>> acceptable besides these two.
>>
>> --
>> Guy Barry
>>
>>
>
> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as "air"

> in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could therefore be
> that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would account for the

> apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."

ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.

>

[Richard Tobin]

In article <m3cqt1$388$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> wrote:

>For me, the one that rhymes with "fiery".

Likewise, though for me eyrie has two syllables and fiery three.

-- Richard

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/5/14 2:33 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 05/11/14 20:18, Peter Young wrote:
>> On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>>>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
>>>> Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
>>>> dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
>>>> besides these two.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Guy Barry
>>
>>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>>
>> +1
>
> For me, the one that rhymes with "fiery".

For me too, though with a suspicion that it's supposed to rhyme with
"fairy".

> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
> explain that.

The lake is pronounced "eerie" too, I assure you.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
influenced by "aerial" and related words.

The discussion of the etymology and pronunciation history in the OED is
rather long. It includes "Classical Latin /ager/ [field] is now
generally regarded as the more likely etymon, a supposition which is
supported by Old Occitan /aire/ bird's nest, favoured place (of a bird)
(12th cent. as /agre/), origin, family (13th cent., frequently in /de
bon'aire/ debonair adj.)" I'd always thought "debonair" was related to
"air".

(The other etymon mentioned by the OED is Latin /ārea/.)

By the way, etymonline says "aerie" is "Formerly misspelled /eyrie/",
which I think is a bit extreme. It mentions Latin /atrium/ as another
possibility.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Young]

How eerie!

[Christian Weisgerber]

On 2014-11-05, Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)?
>

> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".

That's how they pronounce it on Game of Thrones, IIRC, where
"The Eyrie" is the name of a castle.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Christian Weisgerber]

On 2014-11-05, Traddict <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> wrote:

> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as "air" in

> "airy") refers to both an area and an eyrie. It could therefore be that
> "eyrie" is just a variation of "area," which would account for the

> apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."

Etymonline:
aerie (n.)
"eagle's nest," 1580s (attested in Anglo-Latin from early 13c.),
from Old French aire "nest," Medieval Latin area "nest of a bird
of prey" (12c.), perhaps from Latin area "level ground, garden
bed" [Littré], though some doubt this [Klein]. Another theory
connects it to atrium. Formerly misspelled eyrie (1660s) on the
mistaken assumption that it derived from Middle English ey "egg."

According to TLFi, the etymology of the French word is a bit of a
mess. The "threshing floor" and "aerie" senses are different words;
the former is from Latin "area", the latter may be from Latin "agru"
or possibly from "area" but influenced by Old Provençal "agre"
(< L. "agru"), but either way there has been interference between
the reflexes of "area" and "agru".

[Dr Nick]

Likewise, although fiery can have either and is more probably two these
days. Call it 2.5 for cash.

[Traddict]

"Jerry Friedman" <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
groupe de discussion : m3dimb$uh7$1...@news.albasani.net...

> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
>> discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de
>>> groupe de discussion : RLk6w.655433$3F6.5...@fx02.am4...
>>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've
>>>> always pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's
>>>> "Tweet of the Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable
>>>> like "eye"). The dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy"
>>>> is also acceptable besides these two.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Guy Barry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would
>>> account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>>
>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
>
> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source and
> may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
> influenced by "aerial" and related words.

Couldn't the "eggs" and "aerial" assumption be erroneous given that "area"
is still indeed the exact translation of the French "aire?" As a matter of
fact, "nesting area" seems to be widely used for "eyrie/airie". Therefore,
it would seem this is simply an instance of a synechdoche whereby a
"general" area is referred to in order to designate a nesting area, with a
morphological transformation occurring to denote the latter, specific,
meaning.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <545a3fb5$0$12777$426a...@news.free.fr>,

To eerie is human.

[FromTheRafters]

Peter T. Daniels expressed precisely :

That's the one I know. I rhyme it with fairy but I tend to give it a
third syllable.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:35:40 -0500, Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Particular when the human is in ghostly form.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Traddict]

"Christian Weisgerber" <na...@mips.inka.de> a écrit dans le message de
groupe de discussion : slrnm5kls2...@lorvorc.mips.inka.de...

> On 2014-11-05, Traddict <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> wrote:
>
>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as "air"
>> in
>> "airy") refers to both an area and an eyrie. It could therefore be that
>> "eyrie" is just a variation of "area," which would account for the
>> apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>
> Etymonline:
> aerie (n.)
> "eagle's nest," 1580s (attested in Anglo-Latin from early 13c.),
> from Old French aire "nest," Medieval Latin area "nest of a bird
> of prey" (12c.), perhaps from Latin area "level ground, garden
> bed" [Littré], though some doubt this [Klein]. Another theory
> connects it to atrium. Formerly misspelled eyrie (1660s) on the
> mistaken assumption that it derived from Middle English ey "egg."
>
> According to TLFi, the etymology of the French word is a bit of a
> mess. The "threshing floor" and "aerie" senses are different words;
> the former is from Latin "area", the latter may be from Latin "agru"
> or possibly from "area" but influenced by Old Provençal "agre"

This seems highly improbable. Why would Latin "area" have to go through the
Old Provençal "agre" step to result in "aire" in French? The meaning of
"aire" is exactly identical to that of Latin "area" and its form is much
closer to "area" than to "agre."

> (< L. "agru"), but either way there has been interference between
> the reflexes of "area" and "agru".

However, French words derived from "ager, agri" ("ager" means "field" -
incidentally, "agru" doesn't exist as such) have kept a distinct "agr" root
(e.g. "agraire", "agricole", etc.) that connotes fields in French (and by no
means a raptor nest).

[Mark Brader]

Guy Barry:

None of those for me. "Eye-ree", two syllables. ("Fiery" is three.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "C and C++ are two different languages.
m...@vex.net That's UK policy..." -- Clive Feather

[Mark Brader]

Horace LaBadie:
> To eerie is human.

That's clear. In this week's trivia league game, we were asked which
of the Great Lakes has the "most populated and industrialized" shoreline,
with 17 municipalities of at least 50,000 people along it. Our player
who the question went to guessed Lake Ontario for 2 points. The rule#
in our league is that when the player gets it wrong, the team can
discuss it and produce a second answer. I suggested Lake Michigan
(with both the Chicago and Milwaukee metropolitan areas) and we tried
that answer for 1 point. But the expected answer was Lake Erie.

At my suggestion, we declared a protest# on the second answer, meaning
that the organizers are asked to recheck their expected answer. This
morning I decided to check it myself using Google Maps and a road atlas
together with http://www.citypopulation.de. I found only 9 municipalities
of at least 50,000 people bordering Lake Michigan, but then I checked
Lake Erie and found even less -- 7. And the total population of the
municipalities bordering Lake Michigan and large enough to be shown on
the web site was much larger -- roundly 4.4 million vs. 1.6 million.

Unfortunately for the protest, as a matter of due diligence I also
checked Lake Ontario. 14 municipalities over 50,000 people and a
total of 5.4 million people by the method just described. If we'd
protested on *both* answers (and the organizers had agreed with my
methods), we would've gotten 2 points. But we didn't.

Erie. :-)

(It's all right, we won the game anyway.)

# http://torquiz.cfaj.ca//about/rules.shtml (specifically, rules B3 and C6).
--
Mark Brader Be there or be... hmmm. I can't pretend that a
Toronto six-hour seminar on trivia skills is exactly the
m...@vex.net opposite of "square." --Ken Jennings

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Christian Weisgerber]

On 2014-11-05, Traddict <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> wrote:

>> According to TLFi, the etymology of the French word is a bit of a
>> mess. The "threshing floor" and "aerie" senses are different words;
>> the former is from Latin "area", the latter may be from Latin "agru"
>> or possibly from "area" but influenced by Old Provençal "agre"
>
> This seems highly improbable. Why would Latin "area" have to go through the
> Old Provençal "agre" step to result in "aire" in French? The meaning of
> "aire" is exactly identical to that of Latin "area" and its form is much
> closer to "area" than to "agre."

Well, go and read the TLFi entry for yourself:
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/aire
If you can make sense of the abbreviations and have access to a
Romanist library, you may even be able to check the citations.

One problem is that "aire" is attested as both feminine and masculine.

> However, French words derived from "ager, agri" ("ager" means "field" -
> incidentally, "agru" doesn't exist as such) have kept a distinct "agr" root

(Hmm, yes, must be a typo for "agrum".)

> (e.g. "agraire", "agricole", etc.) that connotes fields in French

Those are loans from Latin.

Rule of thumb: If a French word looks like Latin, it probably is a
loan from Latin and not a reflex that developed through Old French.

I don't think a -g- there would have survived, cf. noir < niger, nigrum.

[Robert Bannister]

On 5/11/2014 7:46 pm, HVS wrote:
> On 05 Nov 2014, R H Draney wrote
>
>> Peter Young filted:
>>>
>>> On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've
>>>>> always pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's
>>>>> "Tweet of the Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable
>>>>> like "eye"). The dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like
>>>>> "airy" is also acceptable besides these two.
>>>
>>>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> Me as well, and if you're MINMINM that rhymes with "Mary", not with
>> "marry" or "merry"....r
>
> "Airy" for me, as well.
>

I'll stick with "eerie" for eagles.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Mike L]

On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:04:23 -0700, Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 11/5/14 2:33 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 05/11/14 20:18, Peter Young wrote:
>>> On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>>>>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
>>>>> Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
>>>>> dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
>>>>> besides these two.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Guy Barry
>>>
>>>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> For me, the one that rhymes with "fiery".
>
>For me too, though with a suspicion that it's supposed to rhyme with
>"fairy".

I usually use the "fairy" one, but I think slipping into "eery" at
intervals.

>
>> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
>> explain that.
>
>The lake is pronounced "eerie" too, I assure you.

"...what a terrible storm
we had one night
on the Ee-rye-ee Canal.

Oh, the Eeryee's a-risin',
And the gin's a-gettin' low,
And I hardly think we'll get a drink
Till we get to Buffalo-o-o,
Till we get to Buffalo!"

--
Mike,.

[snide...@gmail.com]

Even the French sing words differently than they speak them.

But:
"Fifteenteen miles on
The Eeeeeerie Cannnnn Ahl!"

(Isn't that from "Low Bridge, Everybody Down?
Low Bridge, for we're comin' to a town!"

yep -- <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNJ2RMOd3U>
)

/dps "for Nick, <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_Hr3iCPls>"

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Friday, November 7, 2014 4:40:22 PM UTC-8, snide...@gmail.com wrote:

> /dps "for Nick, <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_Hr3iCPls>"

I don't think they hand-crank those gates.

/dps

[Jerry Friedman]

Yes, they influenced it but aren't the origin.

> given that
> "area" is still indeed the exact translation of the French "aire?" As a
> matter of fact, "nesting area" seems to be widely used for
> "eyrie/airie". Therefore, it would seem this is simply an instance of a
> synechdoche whereby a "general" area is referred to in order to
> designate a nesting area, with a morphological transformation occurring
> to denote the latter, specific, meaning.

That's one possibility. The others I found are that "eyrie/aerie" is
ultimately from Latin /ager/ and that it's from Latin /atrium/. If the
experts can't agree, I certainly can't tell.

[Peter Moylan]

On 06/11/14 03:17, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
> influenced by "aerial" and related words.
>
> The discussion of the etymology and pronunciation history in the OED is
> rather long. It includes "Classical Latin /ager/ [field] is now
> generally regarded as the more likely etymon, a supposition which is
> supported by Old Occitan /aire/ bird's nest, favoured place (of a bird)
> (12th cent. as /agre/), origin, family (13th cent., frequently in /de
> bon'aire/ debonair adj.)" I'd always thought "debonair" was related to
> "air".
>
> (The other etymon mentioned by the OED is Latin /ārea/.)
>
> By the way, etymonline says "aerie" is "Formerly misspelled /eyrie/",
> which I think is a bit extreme. It mentions Latin /atrium/ as another
> possibility.

Can anyone explain to me the aires as found on French autoroutes (at
least in the south; I haven't checked elsewhere)? Functionally they are
more or less equivalent to the "rest areas" as found alongside
Australian major highways. I can't decide which of the definitions in
atilf works best, so have been stuck with "area". This thread is now
giving me the idea that something like "lookout" might be a better
translation.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

[Dr Nick]

snide...@gmail.com writes:

> But:
> "Fifteenteen miles on
> The Eeeeeerie Cannnnn Ahl!"
>
> (Isn't that from "Low Bridge, Everybody Down?
> Low Bridge, for we're comin' to a town!"
>
> yep -- <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNJ2RMOd3U>
> )

We did that one at school ages before I got into canals.

> /dps "for Nick, <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_Hr3iCPls>"

I'd not seen that before. They aren't actually that interesting to
watch, are they? Pity we don't see that guillotine gate in operation
though.

[Lanarcam]

It is a synonym of "zone de repos" so why not "zone"
in English?

"Aire" is more poetic than the vulgar "zone" in French,
that explains perhaps why they have chosen that for
marketing reasons.

[Peter Moylan]

Thank you. "Zone" wouldn't sound right in English for this application.
On the other hand, "zone de repos" translates pretty well into "rest
area", which is a term we already use.

I'm a little disappointed, though, that there is no connection with
eagle's nests.

[Traddict]

"Peter Moylan" <pe...@pmoylan.org> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : m3kvoo$2i3$1...@dont-email.me...

"Aires de repos" of the eagle's nest type are reserved for _Avia_ gas
stations on French highways ;-).

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:45:36 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

>On 08/11/14 20:55, Lanarcam wrote:
>> Le 08/11/2014 08:07, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>
>>> Can anyone explain to me the aires as found on French autoroutes (at
>>> least in the south; I haven't checked elsewhere)? Functionally they are
>>> more or less equivalent to the "rest areas" as found alongside
>>> Australian major highways. I can't decide which of the definitions in
>>> atilf works best, so have been stuck with "area". This thread is now
>>> giving me the idea that something like "lookout" might be a better
>>> translation.
>>>
>> It is a synonym of "zone de repos" so why not "zone"
>> in English?
>>
>> "Aire" is more poetic than the vulgar "zone" in French,
>> that explains perhaps why they have chosen that for
>> marketing reasons.
>
>Thank you. "Zone" wouldn't sound right in English for this application.

In BrE in the context of roads/highways "zone" is used for a stretch of
road to which specified restrictions apply.

An example is a "no overtaking zone".
http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/harvil-road-become-no-overtaking-6904481

Harvil Road to become no overtaking zone after man who had car crash
lobbied Hillingdon Council
....

A length of road with a speed limit is often described as an "NN zone"
where "NN" is the speed limit. For instance in the UK: "30mph zone".
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/speed_markings.html

This is a brief guide to the law and practice of speed limit signs
and markings in the UK

... The entry to a 30 mph zone must be marked by a "30" sign on both
sides of the road,...

A news headline:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/reckless-foolish-biker-caught-doing-3863256

'Reckless and foolish' biker caught doing 92mph in 30mph zone banned
from roads

>On the other hand, "zone de repos" translates pretty well into "rest
>area", which is a term we already use.
>
>I'm a little disappointed, though, that there is no connection with
>eagle's nests.

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Adam Funk]

On 2014-11-05, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:

>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
>> discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...

>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would
>>> account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>>
>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
>
> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
> influenced by "aerial" and related words.

That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

> The discussion of the etymology and pronunciation history in the OED is
> rather long. It includes "Classical Latin /ager/ [field] is now
> generally regarded as the more likely etymon, a supposition which is
> supported by Old Occitan /aire/ bird's nest, favoured place (of a bird)
> (12th cent. as /agre/), origin, family (13th cent., frequently in /de
> bon'aire/ debonair adj.)" I'd always thought "debonair" was related to
> "air".
>
> (The other etymon mentioned by the OED is Latin /ārea/.)
>
> By the way, etymonline says "aerie" is "Formerly misspelled /eyrie/",
> which I think is a bit extreme. It mentions Latin /atrium/ as another
> possibility.

No cf. ventriculum?


--
I heard that Hans Christian Andersen lifted the title for "The Little
Mermaid" off a Red Lobster Menu. [Bucky Katt]

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan filted:

>
>On 08/11/14 20:55, Lanarcam wrote:
>
>> It is a synonym of "zone de repos" so why not "zone"
>> in English?
>

>Thank you. "Zone" wouldn't sound right in English for this application.
>On the other hand, "zone de repos" translates pretty well into "rest
>area", which is a term we already use.

The risk is that it will be translated by those with small French (like me) as
"tow-away zone"....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:44:35 PM UTC-5, PeterWD wrote:

> In BrE in the context of roads/highways "zone" is used for a stretch of
> road to which specified restrictions apply.

Here too. All your examples are just fine.

[Peter Young]

On 8 Nov 2014 Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2014-11-05, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:

>>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
>>> discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...

>>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
>>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
>>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would
>>>> account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>>>
>>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
>>
>> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
>> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
>> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
>> influenced by "aerial" and related words.

> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next
year.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Re)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Peter Young]

On 9 Nov 2014 Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 8 Nov 2014 Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>> On 2014-11-05, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:

>>>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
>>>> discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...

>>>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
>>>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
>>>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would
>>>>> account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>>>>
>>>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
>>>
>>> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
>>> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
>>> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
>>> influenced by "aerial" and related words.

>> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

> There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
> people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
> southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next
> year.

Sorry, got that wrong; well, I'm only partly awake. It's the
northbound one that's open now. See:
http://www.gloucesterservices.com/

[Katy Jennison]

On 09/11/2014 07:43, Peter Young wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2014 Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-11-05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>>> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:
>
>>>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
>>>> discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...
>
>>>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
>>>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
>>>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which would
>>>>> account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
>>>>
>>>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
>>>
>>> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
>>> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
>>> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
>>> influenced by "aerial" and related words.
>
>> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).
>
> There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
> people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
> southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next
> year.
>

Yes, highly recommended: it includes an excellent farm shop which is
worth the trip on its own.

(When UK motorways were first opened, people used to drive on them just
for an outing, and go to one of the new service stations for Sunday
lunch and drive home again. Tebay, I hear, has replicated that
attraction today. I don't know if the new Gloucester one has done that
yet.)

But it's actually the northbound one that's open now, unless I'm wrong
in believing that when I'm driving between Taunton and Gloucester I'm
driving north rather than south.

--
Katy Jennison

[charles]

In article <2d02c0635...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young

<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2014 Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> > On 2014-11-05, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> >> On 11/5/14 8:18 AM, Traddict wrote:

> >>> "Traddict" <Tradd...@hotmail.fr> a écrit dans le message de
> >>> groupe de discussion : 545a3c20$0$2920$426a...@news.free.fr...

> >>>> Just a thought but in French, the noun "aire"(roughly pronounced as
> >>>> "air" in "airy") refers to both an area and an _eerie_. It could
> >>>> therefore be that "_eerie_" is just a variation of "area," which
> >>>> would account for the apparently widespread pronunciation of "airy."
> >>>
> >>> ERRATUM: Of course, I meant "eyrie" instead of "eerie" above.
> >>
> >> Yes, "eyrie" and "aerie" are from "aire" or its medieval Latin source
> >> and may or may not have the same origin as "area". "Eyrie" has been
> >> influenced by Middle English "ey", meaning eggs, and "aerie" has been
> >> influenced by "aerial" and related words.

> > That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
> > main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
> > superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
> > UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

> There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
> people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
> southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next year.

> Peter.

pity that I so rarely drive on that bit of the M5

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Traddict]

"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : m3mik...@drn.newsguy.com...

Could it be a toe-away zone, given the eagle's talons?

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <p3g2jbx...@news.ducksburg.com>,

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

A search for "Tebay" in Google Maps brings up "Tebay Services" as the
second auto-complete suggestion. With (what appears to be) a Zagat
score of 20. I'll take your word for it, since I really can't see
myself driving anywhere in the UK, never mind from Preston to
Carlisle, any time in the foreseeable future.

The postal locality is listed as Orton CA10.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Adam Funk]

"À la fin tu es las de ce monde ancien..."


--
When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him
whose? --- Don Marquis

[Adam Funk]

On 2014-11-09, Peter Young wrote:

> On 9 Nov 2014 Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 8 Nov 2014 Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>>> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>>> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>>> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>>> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).
>
>> There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
>> people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
>> southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next
>> year.
>
> Sorry, got that wrong; well, I'm only partly awake. It's the
> northbound one that's open now. See:
> http://www.gloucesterservices.com/

That is good to know & a credit to the south.

;-)


--
Avoid socks. They are the fatal give-away of a phony
nonconformist. --- Elissa Jane Karg

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 9 Nov 2014 21:32:14 +0000 (UTC), wol...@bimajority.org (Garrett
Wollman) wrote:

>In article <p3g2jbx...@news.ducksburg.com>,
>Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>>That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>>main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>>superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>>UK is Tebay, AFAIK).
>
>A search for "Tebay" in Google Maps brings up "Tebay Services" as the
>second auto-complete suggestion. With (what appears to be) a Zagat
>score of 20. I'll take your word for it, since I really can't see
>myself driving anywhere in the UK, never mind from Preston to
>Carlisle, any time in the foreseeable future.
>
>The postal locality is listed as Orton CA10.
>

Orton is a village a couple of miles north of Tebay. CA is the Postal
Area which gets its name from the city of Carlisle. CA10 is one of the
30 postcode Districts within the Area.

Both Tebay and Orton are in the Eden local government district.

[Mike L]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2014 16:40:20 -0800 (PST), snide...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Friday, November 7, 2014 2:51:59 PM UTC-8, Mike L wrote:
>> On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:04:23 -0700, Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 11/5/14 2:33 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:

[...]

>> >> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
>> >> explain that.

Lake Eyre rhymes with "air".

>> >
>> >The lake is pronounced "eerie" too, I assure you.
>>
>> "...what a terrible storm
>> we had one night
>> on the Ee-rye-ee Canal.
>>
>> Oh, the Eeryee's a-risin',
>> And the gin's a-gettin' low,
>> And I hardly think we'll get a drink
>> Till we get to Buffalo-o-o,
>> Till we get to Buffalo!"
>
>Even the French sing words differently than they speak them.
>
>But:
>"Fifteenteen miles on
> The Eeeeeerie Cannnnn Ahl!"
>
>(Isn't that from "Low Bridge, Everybody Down?
>Low Bridge, for we're comin' to a town!"
>
>yep -- <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNJ2RMOd3U>
>)
>
>/dps "for Nick, <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_Hr3iCPls>"

Here's the one I know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2xTIvxyJIg

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

In Kent, and perhaps other places, too, the low bridges used to be
manned with crews of specialists in rapid mast-lowering and raising.
ObAUE, these were called "hustlers".

Straying farther, I've got a delightful 19th-C book called "Our Wherry
in Wendish Lands." The author was a former naval officer, and took his
family on a canal holiday in a Germany of surprising economic
depression in, of course, a Norfolk wherry with a paid crew. Light is
hintingly shed in some unexpected places: this upper-class Victorian
father at least didn't mind having the Mick taken by his children; and
he was unimpressed by what they saw of the Imperial Navy - he was put
out, for example, by a man-of-war's failure to acknowledge his dipped
flag when the greatest ship of "my dear old Service would never have
failed to return the salute of a hay barge." A totally unlendable
volume, I'm afraid.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:45:36 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

Bit of a mare's nest, really.

To my mind a "zone" is something more precise and formal than an
"area". As Peter suggests, I think, a zone isn't very relaxing.

--
Mike.

[Peter Moylan]

On 11/11/14 10:37, Mike L wrote:

>>>> On 11/5/14 2:33 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> [...]
>>>>> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
>>>>> explain that.
>
> Lake Eyre rhymes with "air".

You're right. That would explain my Erie mispronunciation.

Of course the two lakes are very different. I gather that Lake Erie
often has water in it.

[Snidely]

Just this Monday, Mike L puzzled about:

Clearly that's done for artistic purposes. At last, clear to an
American. Buffalo gets a milder treatment, and Syracuse wasn't altered
at all.

And, I have to admit, that's the first time I've heard that song. (The
Weavers recordings have been reissued, but out of catalog most of the
time I was shopping. The Kingston Trio stayed in print more, ISTM.)

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Snidely]

Snidely was thinking very hard :

Keeping with the Weavers connection, here's Pete's version of "Low
Bridge":
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKy1_c6DeM>

Notice that even he is not singing "Eeeer Eye Eigh" in this song.

/dps "knows every inch"

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

[Snidely]

Snidely explained on 11/10/2014 :

I meant to point out that I got that link from the page for your link.

>
> Notice that even he is not singing "Eeeer Eye Eigh" in this song.
>
> /dps "knows every inch"

"I got a girl and her name is Sal"

[CDB]

On 11/11/2014 1:21 AM, Snidely wrote:
> Just this Monday, Mike L puzzled about:

>> snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Mike L wrote:

>>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Peter Moylan wrote:

[...]

>>>>>> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I
>>>>>> can't explain that.

>> Lake Eyre rhymes with "air".

>>>>> The lake is pronounced "eerie" too, I assure you.

>>>> "...what a terrible storm we had one night on the Ee-rye-ee
>>>> Canal.

>>>> Oh, the Eeryee's a-risin', And the gin's a-gettin' low, And I
>>>> hardly think we'll get a drink Till we get to Buffalo-o-o, Till
>>>> we get to Buffalo!"

>>> Even the French sing words differently than they speak them.

[versions]

> Clearly that's done for artistic purposes. At last, clear to an
> American. Buffalo gets a milder treatment, and Syracuse wasn't
> altered at all.

> And, I have to admit, that's the first time I've heard that song.
> (The Weavers recordings have been reissued, but out of catalog most
> of the time I was shopping. The Kingston Trio stayed in print more,
> ISTM.)

I thought you were hinting above at the French pronunciation of the
name, which is likely to be a little closer to the original. It's
"Érié" (E-acute, r, i, e-acute, just in case), and the trisyllable
probably inspired the old-fashioned English pronunciation.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2014-11-05 16:04:23 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:

> On 11/5/14 2:33 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> On 05/11/14 20:18, Peter Young wrote:
>>> On 5 Nov 2014 Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:57:40 UTC, Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>> How do you pronounce "eyrie" (the nest of a bird of prey)? I've always
>>>>> pronounced it the same as "eerie", but I heard it on Radio 4's "Tweet of the
>>>>> Day" this morning rhyming with "fiery" (first syllable like "eye"). The
>>>>> dictionary suggests that a pronunciation like "airy" is also acceptable
>>>>> besides these two.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Guy Barry
>>>
>>>> "airy" for me - rhymed with "fairy".
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> For me, the one that rhymes with "fiery".
>
> For me too, though with a suspicion that it's supposed to rhyme with "fairy".

>
>> Lake Erie rhymes with fairy, but the Erie Canal is eerie. I can't
>> explain that.
>

> The lake is pronounced "eerie" too, I assure you.

That's what I thought, but I didn't feel confident enough to query
Peter's statement.


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Not always very clean water, however, at least in the days when the
Cuyahoga River was a fire hazard.

When I went to Niagara Falls, I said to myself, that's pure Lake Erie
water you're seeing there.

--
athel

[Mack A. Damia]

Now this gal sounds as if she is saying, "Lay Kyrie".

--

[Mack A. Damia]

Forgot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAfaoCMcWh8

--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2014-11-08 21:55:37 +0000, Adam Funk said:

[ … ]

> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).

They are far more variable in quality and service offered than British
ones. Some Fench ones can be minimal in every way; others can be
excellent. At least in the UK you have a pretty good idea of what
you'll be getting even if you've not stopped there before: nasty, yes,
but nasty in a predictable way. I don't know Tebay: where is it?
(Don't answer: Google knows. Unfortunately I rarely if ever drive as
far north as that.)


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2014-11-09 07:43:27 +0000, Peter Young said:

> [ … ]

>
> There's a new one just south of Gloucester on the M5, run by the same
> people as Tebay, and it's every bit as good as Tebay. Only the
> southbound one is open yet, the northbound one is due to open next
> year.

Just out of range for me, unfortunately. When I drive on the M5 I'm
usually on my way from my sister's house in King's Stanley on the way
to Devon, so I get onto the M5 at one junction south of where you're
indicating.


--
athel

[Adam Funk]

On 2014-11-11, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2014-11-08 21:55:37 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>
> [ … ]
>
>> That's interesting. I didn't know "aire" meant "eyrie"; to me it's
>> main meaning is "French motorway service area", & they are vastly
>> superior to most British & American ones IME (the only good one in the
>> UK is Tebay, AFAIK).
>
> They are far more variable in quality and service offered than British
> ones. Some Fench ones can be minimal in every way; others can be
> excellent.

OK, the ones I've seen are all better than the predictably nasty
British ones. There's a particularly nice one somewhere in Normandy
(I think) that has bird-watching facilities for the adjacent wildlife
sanctuary.

> At least in the UK you have a pretty good idea of what
> you'll be getting even if you've not stopped there before: nasty, yes,
> but nasty in a predictable way.

Well, that's one way to look at it.


--
I heard that Hans Christian Andersen lifted the title for "The Little
Mermaid" off a Red Lobster Menu. [Bucky Katt]

[Dr Nick]

I don't blame you. The good news is that a facsimile was published in
1985 and is still widely available at reasonable prices. I think I've
found something for my Christmas list.

Dashwood's "From the Thames to the Solent by Canal and Sea" and
Aubertin's "A Caravan Afloat" are both highly enjoyable books of that
sort, and I'd happily read another (RLS's "An Inland Voyage" has some
good moments too).

[Peter Young]

As I know your interest in canals, have you read "The Flower of
Gloucester" by E Temple Thurston? It describes one of the last
passages of the Thames and Severn Canal in about 1911. Rather flowery
language, but an interesting account of the dying days of some of the
British waterways.

All probably OT!

[Dr Nick]

Oh yes. As you say, very flowery but interesting. Relatively recent
scholarship seems to have established that it's a composite of some boat
trips and some other explorations, rather than an account of an actual
voyage.

> All probably OT!

Yes, but...