Certain Persons Who Pronounce Certain Words Strangely

[Berkeley Brett]

I hope you are well & in good spirits.

I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?

These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that you cannot trace to a known dialect; perhaps in a way that no one else of whom you are aware pronounces that word.

I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in childhood? in college?) resulted in these non-standard pronunciations.

If you have known such people, I'd be interested to learn of their peculiar pronunciations of their special words. Please do share them with us, if you would.

I'll give some instances....

A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a 'z' -- "abzurd"

A particularly charismatic acquaintance (and frequent public speaker) who pronounces the word "program" as if it were spelled "progrum" -- "PRO-grum"

An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')

An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled "melk". (This acquaintance also pronounces "Washington" as if it were spelled "Warshington". I assume he also "warshes" the dishes on occasion.)

A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the next word.

(This is an odd one indeed) A friend who pronounces the word "Friday" almost as if the 'd' were replaced with a 't' or some consonant in-between the two -- "Fritay" or "Fried-tay"; curiously, he does not pronounce the other days of the week with this hybrid consonant!)

A sociable acquaintance -- the chairman of a small investment company in San Francisco (California, USA) -- who dwells on the second syllable of the word "infrastructure" -- "in-FRAAH-structure". He sometimes uses the word as if it is peculiarly profound and as if he is introducing it to you for the first time.

A friend & former professor (now sadly deceased -- he was the founder of the wonderful website www.aldaily.com ) who pronounced the word "theologian" as "thee-AHHL-uh-jen". He didn't have a high opinion of theologians. I often thought it was a not-so-subtle expression of his feeling that "this profession is so unimportant that I don't even have to pronounce its name correctly". (He and I did not agree on this. Incidentally, shortly before his death, he gave this very interesting TED talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PktUzdnBqWI )

Well, those are a few instances of "certain persons who pronounce certain words strangely."

I would be interested to learn of any such persons and usages that you've encountered.

Thank you in advance for anything you might care to share....

--
Brett (in Berkeley, California, USA)
http://www.ForeverFunds.org/
My plan for erasing poverty from the world with micro-endowments that "give" forever into the future

[Harrison Hill]

On Oct 24, 4:03 am, Berkeley Brett <royal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>
> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?
>
> These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that you cannot trace to a known dialect; perhaps in a way that no one else of whom you are aware pronounces that word.
>
> I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in childhood? in college?) resulted in these non-standard pronunciations.
>
> If you have known such people, I'd be interested to learn of their peculiar pronunciations of their special words. Please do share them with us, if you would.
>
> I'll give some instances....
>
> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a 'z' -- "abzurd"
>
> A particularly charismatic acquaintance (and frequent public speaker) who pronounces the word "program" as if it were spelled "progrum" -- "PRO-grum"
>
> An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')
>
> An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled "melk". (This acquaintance also pronounces "Washington" as if it were spelled "Warshington". I assume he also "warshes" the dishes on occasion.)
>
> A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the next word.
>
> (This is an odd one indeed) A friend who pronounces the word "Friday" almost as if the 'd' were replaced with a 't' or some consonant in-between the two -- "Fritay" or "Fried-tay"; curiously, he does not pronounce the other days of the week with this hybrid consonant!)
>
> A sociable acquaintance -- the chairman of a small investment company in San Francisco (California, USA) -- who dwells on the second syllable of the word "infrastructure" -- "in-FRAAH-structure".  He sometimes uses the word as if it is peculiarly profound and as if he is introducing it to you for the first time.
>

> A friend & former professor (now sadly deceased -- he was the founder of the wonderful websitewww.aldaily.com) who pronounced the word "theologian" as "thee-AHHL-uh-jen". He didn't have a high opinion of theologians. I often thought it was a not-so-subtle expression of his feeling that "this profession is so unimportant that I don't even have to pronounce its name correctly". (He and I did not agree on this. Incidentally, shortly before his death, he gave this very interesting TED talk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PktUzdnBqWI)

>
> Well, those are a few instances of "certain persons who pronounce certain words strangely."
>
> I would be interested to learn of any such persons and usages that you've encountered.
>
> Thank you in advance for anything you might care to share....

In the UK these would be hang-overs of local dialects, which have
pretty much died out over my lifetime. We used to get our friend to
repeat "Vorksall" and "tth-brush" (Vauxhall and toothbrush) over and
over - for our amusement; the sole remains of his Bridgwater in
Somerset dialect.

[Guy Barry]

"Berkeley Brett" wrote in message
news:168f94b5-bdd6-48d6...@googlegroups.com...

> I hope you are well & in good spirits.

> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
> often for no reason you can determine?

[...]

> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a
> 'z' -- "abzurd"

Not strange to me at all. It's in my dictionary as an alternative, and I've
heard it on many occasions. I may even have used it myself.

> A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each
> other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the
> next word.

That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
all" at though it were "a tall".

I had a university lecturer who used to say "similarly" with a long "ar"
vowel in the third syllable (though still stressed on the first). I suspect
that's because he had problems pronouncing it the correct way - he once
forgot and pronounced it the same way as "simile".

My mother used to pronounce "marathon" with a voiced "th", as in "other"
(and for all I know still does). When I pointed it out to her she had great
difficulty hearing the difference from the correct pronunciation.

--
Guy Barry

[Nick Spalding]

Berkeley Brett wrote, in
<168f94b5-bdd6-48d6...@googlegroups.com>
on Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:03:32 -0700 (PDT):

I remember hearing Andrew Marr pronounce "porpoise" as "porpoyse", or
maybe it was "tortoise" as "tortoyse" in a program a couple of years
ago.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Guy Barry]

"Nick Spalding" wrote in message
news:jvff88hdkoat10fkt...@4ax.com...

> I remember hearing Andrew Marr pronounce "porpoise" as "porpoyse", or
> maybe it was "tortoise" as "tortoyse" in a program a couple of years
> ago.

"Tortoyse" is reasonably common, isn't it? It's listed as an alternative in
my dictionary. Don't think I've heard "porpoyse" though.

--
Guy Barry

[dbrich...@lbl.gov]

Thank you, Mr. Hill: these are interesting examples. (I wonder, was "tth-brush" pronounced as if the first syllable contained a schwa sound? or perhaps "tuth-brush"? I have not heard this before & find it interesting.)

Thanks again....

[the Omrud]

On 24/10/2012 11:18, Nick Spalding wrote:

> I remember hearing Andrew Marr pronounce "porpoise" as "porpoyse", or
> maybe it was "tortoise" as "tortoyse" in a program a couple of years
> ago.

Although his accent is gone, Marr retains his Edinburgh intonation and
speech patterns. Ronnie Corbett is a more extreme example of this.
Porpoyse could be the Edinburgh pronunciation. One very obvious example
is "iron" which Marr at least pronounces "Eye-R'n" with a clear "r".

--
David

[dbrich...@lbl.gov]

On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 1:53:59 AM UTC-7, Guy Barry wrote:
> "Berkeley Brett" wrote in message
>
>
>
>

> > I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>
>
>
> > I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
>
> > often for no reason you can determine?
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a
>
> > 'z' -- "abzurd"
>
>
>
> Not strange to me at all. It's in my dictionary as an alternative, and I've
>
> heard it on many occasions. I may even have used it myself.
>
>
>
> > A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each
>
> > other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the
>
> > next word.
>
>
>
> That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>
> all" at though it were "a tall".
>
>
>
> I had a university lecturer who used to say "similarly" with a long "ar"
>
> vowel in the third syllable (though still stressed on the first). I suspect
>
> that's because he had problems pronouncing it the correct way - he once
>
> forgot and pronounced it the same way as "simile".
>

Thank you, Mr. Barry.

This is interesting in part because the pronunciation of "similarly" you describe is phonetically "more correct" than the prevailing pronunciation, it seems to me. Yet I have never heard this pronunciation, so it is a very good example of the kind of usage I'm seeking.

Reminds me a bit of a friend who used to insist on pronouncing every syllable in the word "vegetable", even if he was speaking quickly, and it was inconvenient. Nearly all Americans (in my experience) say, "vegt'-uh-bul", as if the word has three syllables. But with him is was always the presumably "more correct" "veg-et-uh-bul", all four syllables pronounced.

>
> My mother used to pronounce "marathon" with a voiced "th", as in "other"
>
> (and for all I know still does). When I pointed it out to her she had great
>
> difficulty hearing the difference from the correct pronunciation.
>
> --

Another very interesting example, particularly because she had difficulty hearing the difference.

A lovely friend of mine (a young Chinese woman who was born and raised in Brazil: her first language is Portuguese, though she learned English from a very young age and speaks it with only the slightest elegant accent) pronounces the plural "women" as if it is the singular "woman" -- e.g. "Woman sometimes encounter discrimination in the workplace."

She has always asked me to point out any irregularities in her English, and so once very gently I called her attention to this one. I pointed out that the pronunciation "wimmin" rhymes with "I went swimmin'", but she had great difficulty hearing the difference. She still pronounces "women" as if it is singular. (I hadn't mentioned this earlier since English is a second language to her: it seemed to be a special case -- a bit different from the native-English-speaker examples I was seeking. She also pronounces the word "foot" as if it rhymes with "boot", though I have not pointed this out to her.)

> Guy Barry

Thank you again, Mr. Barry.

Brett in Berkeley
.

[Jack Campin]

> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely

[...]

> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with
> a 'z' -- "abzurd"

I do that and as far as I know it's standard. Devoicing the "s" makes
the speaker sound like a primary school teacher in a spelling lesson.

I just looked up versions of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly" on
YouTube ("...how absurd, to swallow a bird..") - most of them (from
the UK, US and Australia) seem to use a sound somewhere in between
"s" and "z".

> An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled
> "melk".

You occasionally hear that in Scotland, but (particularly on the West
Coast) it's more common to hear "mIlk", using the vowel which in Turkish
is written as dotless I.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Harrison Hill]

I've never heard anything *other* than "tortoyse" and "porpoyse".

[Harrison Hill]

"tuth-brush".

[Jack Campin]

>> I remember hearing Andrew Marr pronounce "porpoise" as "porpoyse", or
>> maybe it was "tortoise" as "tortoyse" in a program a couple of years
>> ago.
> Although his accent is gone, Marr retains his Edinburgh intonation and
> speech patterns. Ronnie Corbett is a more extreme example of this.
> Porpoyse could be the Edinburgh pronunciation.

"Tortoyse" is common in Edinburgh, but isn't it also common all over the
UK? (I've never heard "porpoyse").

One I've only heard in southern Scotland (I think it comes from Fife)
is "mortgage" pronounced exactly as spelt - "mort-gauge", with the "t"
pronounced clearly and the syllables equally stressed.

[Don Phillipson]

<dbrich...@lbl.gov> wrote in message
news:8c4cdd54-c74c-428b...@googlegroups.com...

> . . . a friend who used to insist on pronouncing every syllable in the

> word "vegetable", even if he was speaking quickly, and it was
> inconvenient. Nearly all Americans (in my experience) say,
> "vegt'-uh-bul", as if the word has three syllables. But with him is
> was always the presumably "more correct" "veg-et-uh-bul", all
> four syllables pronounced.

This is an old American habit, possibly traced to American
teachers' methods of teaching young children to read:
"If in doubt, sound it out," viz.enunciation of every written
letter in a word. This seems also the main reason many
Americans say laboratory as five syllables while Britons
usually say four (and sometimes only three.) The "sound
it out" method was taught in American schools for many
decades, thus became a general speech habit, but
was not in British schools. (Most British children were
taught that orthodox spelling was highly conventional
and often non-phonetic.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Jerry Friedman]

On Oct 24, 7:40 am, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
...

> One I've only heard in southern Scotland (I think it comes from Fife)
> is "mortgage" pronounced exactly as spelt - "mort-gauge", with the "t"
> pronounced clearly and the syllables equally stressed.

We missed "gauge" in the thread on irregular pronunciations.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Oct 23, 9:03 pm, Berkeley Brett <royal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>
> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?
>
> These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that you cannot trace to a known dialect; perhaps in a way that no one else of whom you are aware pronounces that word.
>
> I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in childhood? in college?) resulted in these non-standard pronunciations.
>
> If you have known such people, I'd be interested to learn of their peculiar pronunciations of their special words. Please do share them with us, if you would.
>
> I'll give some instances....
>
> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a 'z' -- "abzurd"

That's how I pronounced it before I heard it and got laughed at.

> A particularly charismatic acquaintance (and frequent public speaker) who pronounces the word "program" as if it were spelled "progrum" -- "PRO-grum"

I've heard that too, and it's in M-W.

By an uninteresting train of thought, that reminds me of "component".
As far as I can tell from my limited knowledge, "COM-ponent" with a
secondary accent on the "po" is heard mostly in the northern Midwest,
though that stress pattern (as in "UM-brella" and "IN-surance") is
usually more Southern and Midland. One friend of mine in grad school
said "component" with the primary accent on the first syllable and the
secondary accent on the third, like "competent". That probably fits
your question.

> An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')

I had a college professor who pronounced all "short u's" this way. I
particularly noticed it in "nember". I think this is heard mostly in
the northeastern U.S.

> An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled "melk". (This acquaintance also pronounces "Washington" as if it were spelled "Warshington". I assume he also "warshes" the dishes on occasion.)

...

Both very common (as is "vanella"). "Warsh" is a known dialect
feature--Midland or some part of it, I think.

I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
"sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

I've several people here pronounce "yarrow" with an "ah" in the first
syllable, "YAR-oh", instead of rhyming with "arrow", "barrow", and
"narrow" as you might expect. Incipient New Mexico dialect?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Glenn Knickerbocker]

On 10/24/2012 10:46 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

I've heard "pestle" with the T more often than not, in both New York and
Texas. "Sword" pronounced as "sward" seems to to be something that
arises from self-consciousness when people first start using the word
much more often--newcomers to fantasy games, Renaissance fairs, etc.

ŹR

[James Silverton]

I wonder how many Western kitchens actually have mortars and pestles? I
don't have one and would usually use a blender so a source of argument
is disappearing. Let me admit that I do not pronounce the "t" is
"pestle", "nestle" or "castle".


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Robin Bignall]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the correct pronunciation for
oxymoron. I've heard OXIMoron and OXyMORon.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[Nick Spalding]

James Silverton wrote, in <k69dtn$nt$1...@dont-email.me>
on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:01:18 -0400:

I have something that looks just like one but it is wooden and for
crushing garlic!
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Nick Spalding]

Robin Bignall wrote, in <l4gg88d1hbqpuuq9p...@4ax.com>
on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:28:15 +0100:

OXyMORon for me.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Mike L]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:46:11 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Oct 23, 9:03 pm, Berkeley Brett <royal...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

>
>> An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')
>
>I had a college professor who pronounced all "short u's" this way. I
>particularly noticed it in "nember". I think this is heard mostly in
>the northeastern U.S.

This, or something extremely close to it, is widespread in GB: I take
it to be a variant of the schwa-ish pronunciation of the "number"
vowel.
>

Back to the voiced version of "th", one of the most respected (because
clear, straightforward, and non-show-offy) weathermen over here, Peter
Gibbs, DEvoices the ones in "thus" and "though" - it sounds very odd.
[...]
--
Mike.

[R H Draney]

Jerry Friedman filted:
>
>On Oct 23, 9:03=A0pm, Berkeley Brett <royal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it wer=
>e the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a s=

>hort 'e')
>
>I had a college professor who pronounced all "short u's" this way. I
>particularly noticed it in "nember". I think this is heard mostly in
>the northeastern U.S.

I once had a dance teacher who insisted on saying "togethaw"...what the heck is
*that* about?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Oct 24, 1:01 pm, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> On 10/24/2012 2:21 PM, Glenn Knickerbocker wrote:
>
> > On 10/24/2012 10:46 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
> >> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
> >> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
> >> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.
>
> > I've heard "pestle" with the T more often than not, in both New York and
> > Texas.

Well, in fact, AHD, M-W, and dictionary.com all list /'pEst@l/
(second). How do such things happen? I withdraw that answer to
Brett's question.

> > "Sword" pronounced as "sward" seems to to be something that
> > arises from self-consciousness when people first start using the word
> > much more often--newcomers to fantasy games, Renaissance fairs, etc.

Interesting. I don't think that applied to this woman, though she was
a fan of /The Lord of the Rings/.

> I wonder how many Western kitchens actually have mortars and pestles? I
> don't have one and would usually use a blender so a source of argument
> is disappearing.

Unless the pronunciation had the opportunity to get started because
the word became rare.

Incidentally, people also use them for crushing pills so they can
take, say, two-thirds.

> Let me admit that I do not pronounce the "t" is
> "pestle", "nestle" or "castle".

I think that's closer to a boast than to an admission.

--
Jerry Friedman

[mrucb...@att.net]

Truck driver came into shop I was working in, and asked for a cress-kent wrench. I didn't determine if that's how he read it off the wrench, or if he was joking.

[mrucb...@att.net]

Maybe I am being thick but i looked it up and I dont see any difference between the th in other 'uhth-er' and the one in marathon....'mar-uh-thon'... Does it make a difference that it ends one syllable, and starts another? Not to me. I am with mum.

[Christian Weisgerber]

Berkeley Brett <roya...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
> often for no reason you can determine?

I'm watching the first episode of the BBC's _Prehistoric Autopsy_
where a bunch of scientists are reconstructing a Neanderthal, and
one of them keeps saying "larynix" for larynx.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/10/12 4:53 PM, Guy Barry wrote:
>
>
> "Berkeley Brett" wrote in message
> news:168f94b5-bdd6-48d6...@googlegroups.com...
>
>> I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>
>> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
>> often for no reason you can determine?
>
> [...]
>
>> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a
>> 'z' -- "abzurd"
>
> Not strange to me at all. It's in my dictionary as an alternative, and
> I've heard it on many occasions. I may even have used it myself.

In many ways, it is more logical, but I still find it strange when I
hear it. Another, similar one is "asbestos" - most people use an
unvoiced s which tends to make the b (almost) into a p, but I've heard a
few young people say "azbestos".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/10/12 6:18 PM, Nick Spalding wrote:

> I remember hearing Andrew Marr pronounce "porpoise" as "porpoyse", or
> maybe it was "tortoise" as "tortoyse" in a program a couple of years
> ago.

Very common is also "poypoyss" and "toytoyss". My grandmother always
said the latter - I don't think we'd seen any porpoises. Of course, for
those who use "poypoyss" for "purpose", it must present difficulties.


--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

I always start off spelling that "guage" - I know there's a u in it and
gu for a hard g makes sense. Gauge looks as if it should be pronounced
either as gorge or as gouge.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).


--
Robert Bannister

[R H Draney]

mrucb...@att.net filted:

>
>Truck driver came into shop I was working in, and asked for a cress-kent wrench.
>I didn't determine if that's how he read it off the wrench, or if he was joking.

Probably a Mussulman....r

[Guy Barry]

"Robin Bignall" wrote in message
news:l4gg88d1hbqpuuq9p...@4ax.com...

> I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the correct pronunciation for
> oxymoron. I've heard OXIMoron and OXyMORon.

I've only ever heard third-syllable stress (with a secondary stress on the
first).

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Mike L" wrote in message
news:akkg88tquovvrjtum...@4ax.com...

> Back to the voiced version of "th", one of the most respected (because
> clear, straightforward, and non-show-offy) weathermen over here, Peter
> Gibbs, DEvoices the ones in "thus" and "though" - it sounds very odd.

I hadn't noticed that (and I normally notice the speech quirks of the
various weather forecasters). I'll have to listen out for it.

--
Guy Barry

[Bob Martin]

The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with sole).

[Guy Barry]

mrucbeadco wrote in message
news:b9555a53-1773-4abc...@googlegroups.com...

> On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:53:59 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:

> > My mother used to pronounce "marathon" with a voiced "th", as in "other"
>
> > (and for all I know still does). When I pointed it out to her she had
> > great
>
> > difficulty hearing the difference from the correct pronunciation.

> Maybe I am being thick but i looked it up and I dont see any difference
> between the th in other 'uhth-er' and the one in
> marathon....'mar-uh-thon'... Does it make a difference that it ends one
> syllable, and > starts another? Not to me. I am with mum.

The "th" in "other" is voiced, like the one in "this", "that", "though",
"smooth", "father" and so on. The "th" in "marathon" is unvoiced, like the
one in "thin", "thick", "three", "breath", "brothel" and so on. If you're
still not sure of the difference, there are sound samples here:

http://www.pronuncian.com/Lessons/Default.aspx?Lesson=10

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:aergqf...@mid.individual.net...

> On 24/10/12 4:53 PM, Guy Barry wrote:

["abzurd"]

> > Not strange to me at all. It's in my dictionary as an alternative, and
> > I've heard it on many occasions. I may even have used it myself.

> In many ways, it is more logical, but I still find it strange when I hear
> it.

Well, the "z" sound is standard in "absorb" and "absolve" (though not in
"absolute"), so it seems an obvious analogy.

> Another, similar one is "asbestos" - most people use an unvoiced s which
> tends to make the b (almost) into a p, but I've heard a few young people
> say "azbestos".

I'm fairly sure I say "azbestos". Again, using a voiced "s" before a "b"
seems natural, as in "lesbian". "ASBO" (the British acronym for Anti-Social
Behaviour Order) is always pronounced that way as far as I know.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message

news:aerh60...@mid.individual.net...

["gauge"]

> I always start off spelling that "guage" - I know there's a u in it and gu
> for a hard g makes sense.

Normally only before "e" and "i" though - although "guard" and "guarantee"
have it, unnecessarily. (I think you mentioned before that it's for
etymological reasons.)

"Guage" is quite a common misspelling, though not one I've ever been tempted
into. I think "language" may account for some of the confusion.

--
Guy Barry

[R H Draney]

Guy Barry filted:

>
>
>
>"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
>news:aerh60...@mid.individual.net...
>
>["gauge"]
>
>> I always start off spelling that "guage" - I know there's a u in it and gu
>> for a hard g makes sense.
>
>Normally only before "e" and "i" though - although "guard" and "guarantee"
>have it, unnecessarily. (I think you mentioned before that it's for
>etymological reasons.)

Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before "i", "e" or
"y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j"....r

[James Hogg]

Margarine

--
James

[Katy Jennison]

On 24/10/2012 23:31, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Berkeley Brett<roya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
>> often for no reason you can determine?
>
> I'm watching the first episode of the BBC's _Prehistoric Autopsy_
> where a bunch of scientists are reconstructing a Neanderthal, and
> one of them keeps saying "larynix" for larynx.
>

We noticed that; in fact, it was almost as if he was pronouncing it
"lar-nyx", as one might if it was an unfamiliar word and one had misread it.

--
Katy Jennison

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |...as a mobile phone is analogous
SF Bay Area (1982-) |to a Q-Tip -- yeah, it's something
Chicago (1964-1982) |you stick in your ear, but there
|all resemblance ends.
evan.kir...@gmail.com | Ross Howard

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
same: /@U/. I'd say /oU/ for AmE.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |When you rewrite a compiler from
SF Bay Area (1982-) |scratch, you sometimes fix things
Chicago (1964-1982) |you didn't know were broken.
| Larry Wall
evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Christian Weisgerber]

R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

> Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before "i", "e" or
> "y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j"....r

"Gaol" is still common in British-published books.

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:pq467f...@gmail.com...

> Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:

> > The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with
> > sole).

> How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

> The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
> same: /@U/. I'd say /oU/ for AmE.

I'd say /A.U/ in both of them, as do the majority of RP speakers (it
appears), though there's a conspiracy by the dictionaries to pretend the
pronunciation doesn't exist. (See recent discussion on this topic - even
Prince Harry uses that vowel in "hold".)

--
Guy Barry

[R H Draney]

Robert Bannister filted:

Even when compounding a pessary?...r

[Mark Brader]

Robert Bannister:

>> Another, similar one is "asbestos" - most people use an unvoiced s which
>> tends to make the b (almost) into a p, but I've heard a few young people
>> say "azbestos".

Guy Barry:

> I'm fairly sure I say "azbestos".

So do I. I'm not even sure if I've heard it the other way.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Using the wrong software counts as "user error".
m...@vex.net | --Julian Lighton

[Mark Brader]

Jerry Friedman:

>> We missed "gauge" in the thread on irregular pronunciations.

Robert Bannister:

> I always start off spelling that "guage" - I know there's a u in it and
> gu for a hard g makes sense. Gauge looks as if it should be pronounced
> either as gorge or as gouge.

In American spelling there used to be the option of "gage", but it seems
to be more or less obsolete now. A Google phrase search for "track gage"
has only about 10,000 hits, while "track gauge" is around 360,000.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "No victor believes in chance."
m...@vex.net -- Nietzsche (trans. Kaufmann)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Mark Brader]

R.H. Draney:

> > Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before
> > "i", "e" or "y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j".

James Hogg:
> Margarine

Which you might keep in the fridge -- which you might spell "frig" --
along with the veg.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...what kind of mind has a steel trap got anyway?"
m...@vex.net | --Lawrence Block, "The Burglar in the Library"

[Mike L]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:35:28 +0100, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

>James Silverton wrote, in <k69dtn$nt$1...@dont-email.me>
> on Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:01:18 -0400:
>
>> On 10/24/2012 2:21 PM, Glenn Knickerbocker wrote:

>> > On 10/24/2012 10:46 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> >> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>> >> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
>> >> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
>> >> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.
>> >

>> > I've heard "pestle" with the T more often than not, in both New York and
>> > Texas. "Sword" pronounced as "sward" seems to to be something that
>> > arises from self-consciousness when people first start using the word
>> > much more often--newcomers to fantasy games, Renaissance fairs, etc.
>> >
>>
>> I wonder how many Western kitchens actually have mortars and pestles? I
>> don't have one and would usually use a blender so a source of argument
>> is disappearing. Let me admit that I do not pronounce the "t" is
>> "pestle", "nestle" or "castle".
>
>I have something that looks just like one but it is wooden and for
>crushing garlic!

They're very popular in the demographic that prefers children's toys
made of wood. I have two porcelain ones, a brass one, and three wooden
ones - the smallest of the wooden ones cleverly has a captive pestle.
I grind things in an electric coffee-grinder. The mortars are handy
places to put nuts and bolts, paper-clips, lucky pebbles, broken
fridge magnets, and stuff like that.

--
Mike

[Mike L]

"Come gaugers all,
From Donegal,
From Cork and Leitrim too!
..."

In that revenuer sense, the diphthong is pronounced the same as the
one in "cow".

--
Mike.

[Robin Bignall]

I have two electric grinders: one for coffee, one for herbs and spices.
Garlic I just bash with a meat cleaver.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[mrucb...@att.net]

OK I confess. I am an idiot. I have been speaking native American English for over 50 years, and I only say 'th' one way. The alleged 'voiced' part is the vowel sound that comes after it, for me, not part of the TH sound. Maybe it is the Scots heritage...

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:03:32 -0700 (PDT), Berkeley Brett <roya...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I hope you are well & in good spirits.

Yes I am, but your postings depress my spirits.

>I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?
>

>These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that y
>
>I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in c



Is there any possibility that you could adjust your newsreader to display
lines that wrap properly?

It would help to make them legible.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Robert Bannister]

On 25/10/12 8:04 AM, mrucb...@att.net wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:53:59 AM UTC-5, Guy Barry wrote:

>> "Berkeley Brett" wrote in message
>>
>> news:168f94b5-bdd6-48d6...@googlegroups.com...

>>
>>
>>
>>> I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>>
>>
>>

>>> I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely,
>>
>>> often for no reason you can determine?
>>
>>
>>

>> [...]
>>
>>
>>
>>> A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a
>>
>>> 'z' -- "abzurd"

>>
>>
>>
>> Not strange to me at all. It's in my dictionary as an alternative, and I've
>>
>> heard it on many occasions. I may even have used it myself.
>>
>>
>>

>>> A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each
>>
>>> other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the
>>
>>> next word.
>>
>>
>>
>> That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>>
>> all" at though it were "a tall".
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a university lecturer who used to say "similarly" with a long "ar"
>>
>> vowel in the third syllable (though still stressed on the first). I suspect
>>
>> that's because he had problems pronouncing it the correct way - he once
>>
>> forgot and pronounced it the same way as "simile".

>>
>>
>>
>> My mother used to pronounce "marathon" with a voiced "th", as in "other"
>>
>> (and for all I know still does). When I pointed it out to her she had great
>>
>> difficulty hearing the difference from the correct pronunciation.
>>
>>
>>

>> --
>>
>> Guy Barry

>
> Maybe I am being thick but i looked it up and I dont see any difference between the th in other 'uhth-er' and the one in marathon....'mar-uh-thon'... Does it make a difference that it ends one syllable, and starts another? Not to me. I am with mum.
>

It's not a question of what you see, but of what you hear. I can't hear
any difference between your "i" and "I", but I can see it.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 25/10/12 11:07 PM, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> writes:
>
>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
>>> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.
>>
>>
>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84
>

Good grief. I don't know how many times I've seen that, and yet I had
never noticed. We so often hear what we expect to hear. You can see why
I wrote "(yet)".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
either (yet).

--
Robert Bannister

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:53:59 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

>That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>all" at though it were "a tall".

When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of dog I had,
I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it called (AmE=named).

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:53:59 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>>all" at though it were "a tall".
>
> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of
> dog I had, I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it
> called (AmE=named).

I'm not sure if you're serious there, but that's fine as "called" in
AmE. Breeds of dogs don't have true names.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Specifically, I'd like to debate
SF Bay Area (1982-) |whether cannibalism ought to be
Chicago (1964-1982) |grounds for leniency in murder,
|since it's less wasteful.
evan.kir...@gmail.com | Calvin

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Bob Martin]

in 1913950 20121025 160942 Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:
>
>> in 1913867 20121025 070305 "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>"Mike L" wrote in message
>>>news:akkg88tquovvrjtum...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> Back to the voiced version of "th", one of the most respected (because
>>>> clear, straightforward, and non-show-offy) weathermen over here, Peter
>>>> Gibbs, DEvoices the ones in "thus" and "though" - it sounds very odd.
>>>
>>>I hadn't noticed that (and I normally notice the speech quirks of the
>>>various weather forecasters). I'll have to listen out for it.
>>
>> The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with sole).
>
>How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?
>
>The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
>same: /@U/. I'd say /oU/ for AmE.

I obviously wasn't clear - the point I was making was that Fred pronounced
"whole" as "wole" not "hole" as everyone else does.
Yesterday the BBC R3 newsreader referred to "wooping cough" though I have
only previously heard "hooping cough".

[R H Draney]

Evan Kirshenbaum filted:

>
>Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:53:59 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>>>all" at though it were "a tall".
>>
>> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of
>> dog I had, I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it
>> called (AmE=named).
>
>I'm not sure if you're serious there, but that's fine as "called" in
>AmE. Breeds of dogs don't have true names.

A woman I used to work with trained them as companion animals for the disabled,
and I saw a fair amount of literature about them...the official name of that
breed seems to be "German Shepherd Dog", and yes, all three words are
included....r

[R H Draney]

Mark Brader filted:

>
>R.H. Draney:
>> > Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before
>> > "i", "e" or "y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j".
>
>James Hogg:
>> Margarine
>
>Which you might keep in the fridge -- which you might spell "frig" --
>along with the veg.

I keep waiting for someone to mention the pondial term I have in mind....r

[James Hogg]

Gaol?

--
James

[Guy Barry]

On Oct 25, 2:55 pm, na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) wrote:

> R H Draney  <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> > Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before "i", "e" or
> > "y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j"....r
>
> "Gaol" is still common in British-published books.

Is it? I'd have said it's on its way out now. I remember that the
Guardian newspaper used it when I was younger (and it stood out even
then) but I haven't seen it for many years now.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

On Oct 25, 9:28 pm, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> R.H. Draney:
>
> > > Trivia question: find a common English word where a "g" *not* before
> > > "i", "e" or "y" (or the "ae" or "oe" diphthongs) sounds like "j".
>
> James Hogg:
>
> > Margarine
>
> Which you might keep in the fridge -- which you might spell "frig" --
> along with the veg.

And there are all those alternative spellings like "judgment",
"abridgment", "acknowledgment" (although I'd normally insert an "e").
"Fledgling" is another example.

I sometimes see "mortgagor" cited as an example, but I rarely see it
in actual use.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

On Oct 26, 1:13 am, mrucbea...@att.net wrote:

> OK I confess.  I am an idiot.  I have been speaking native American English for over 50 years, and I only say 'th' one way.
> The alleged 'voiced' part is the vowel sound that comes after it, for me,  not part of the TH sound.  Maybe it is the Scots heritage...

So you always pronounce "th" as unvoiced, then? Could you hear the
difference between the samples?

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

Didn't you realize that "pestle" was meant to rhyme with "vessel"?

--
Guy Barry

[mrucb...@att.net]

Yes I hear a bit of vibration which I don't use, and a schwa sound after the claimed 'voiced' example...

[Nick Spalding]

Bob Martin wrote, in <aeuonu...@mid.individual.net>
on Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:26:06 BST:

Yes that stuck out didn't it.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[mrucb...@att.net]

Sorry, I don't get your point: You say it is not a question of what you see, it is what you hear,... and then illustrate that with an example of what you can see, but not hear... ? OK, I guess.

[Christian Weisgerber]

Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> > "Gaol" is still common in British-published books.
>
> Is it? I'd have said it's on its way out now.

It stands out because I usually stumble when I encounter it:
I read it as "goal" first, then notice that something doesn't make
sense, and have to go over the sentence again.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Jerry Friedman]

On Oct 26, 6:25 am, na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) wrote:

> Guy Barry  <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > "Gaol" is still common in British-published books.
>
> > Is it?  I'd have said it's on its way out now.
>
> It stands out because I usually stumble when I encounter it:
> I read it as "goal" first, then notice that something doesn't make
> sense, and have to go over the sentence again.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=jail%2Fgaol&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=

http://tinyurl.com/8v2srun

Naturally, I typed "goal" and had to correct it.

--
Jerry Friedman likes the new ratio feature.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:

> in 1913950 20121025 160942 Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:
>>
>>> The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with sole).
>>
>>How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?
>>
>>The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
>>same: /@U/. I'd say /oU/ for AmE.
>
> I obviously wasn't clear - the point I was making was that Fred
> pronounced "whole" as "wole" not "hole" as everyone else does.

I got that point. I just assumed that the "(rhyming with sole)" meant
that he also changed the vowel.

> Yesterday the BBC R3 newsreader referred to "wooping cough" though I
> have only previously heard "hooping cough".

/wupIN/ is what I learned in Chicago.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Giving money and power to government
SF Bay Area (1982-) |is like giving whiskey and car keys
Chicago (1964-1982) |to teenage boys.
| P.J. O'Rourke
evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:pq455h...@gmail.com...

> Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> writes:

> > Yesterday the BBC R3 newsreader referred to "wooping cough" though I
> > have only previously heard "hooping cough".

> /wupIN/ is what I learned in Chicago.

It's always been /'hu:pIN/ in this country. This was discussed relatively
recently. (I believe "pertussis" is the standard term in the US.)

--
Guy Barry

[Katy Jennison]

On 26/10/2012 17:17, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> Bob Martin<bob.m...@excite.com> writes:
>
>> in 1913950 20121025 160942 Evan Kirshenbaum<evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Martin<bob.m...@excite.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with sole).
>>>
>>> How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?
>>>
>>> The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
>>> same: /@U/. I'd say /oU/ for AmE.
>>
>> I obviously wasn't clear - the point I was making was that Fred
>> pronounced "whole" as "wole" not "hole" as everyone else does.
>
> I got that point. I just assumed that the "(rhyming with sole)" meant
> that he also changed the vowel.
>

At first sight some of us might be inclined to pronounce "wole" like
"Wole". I took it that "rhyming with sole" was intended to head us off.

--
Katy Jennison

[R H Draney]

Guy Barry filted:

"Judgment" was the one I had in mind at the start...spellcheck doesn't flag it
if I insert the "e", but that always looks like it should add a syllable....r

[R H Draney]

Guy Barry filted:

>
>On Oct 26, 4:41=A0am, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> On 25/10/12 11:07 PM, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>

>> > =A0 =A0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTJ9f2rnjB84

>>
>> Good grief. I don't know how many times I've seen that, and yet I had
>> never noticed. We so often hear what we expect to hear. You can see why
>> I wrote "(yet)".
>
>Didn't you realize that "pestle" was meant to rhyme with "vessel"?

Yea, verily, yea!...

(Or some variation on "Get it?" "Got it!" "Good.")...r

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Okay. How do you pronounce "Wole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |Marge: You liked Rashomon.
SF Bay Area (1982-) |Homer: That's not how *I* remember
Chicago (1964-1982) | it.

evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

"Pertussis" is the standard term for whooping cought in the same way
that "varicella" is the standard term for chicken pox. It probably
became a bit more common during the years when the disease was largely
gone and people encountered it only in the name of the vaccine. Now
that cases are on the rise, it's more common to hear of "whooping
cough" in the news.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |The plural of "anecdote"
SF Bay Area (1982-) |is not "data"
Chicago (1964-1982)

evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:a9v95e...@gmail.com...

> Okay. How do you pronounce "Wole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

This is the only "Wole" I know of, and he's definitely two syllables:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wole_Soyinka

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:625x5e...@gmail.com...

> "Pertussis" is the standard term for whooping cought in the same way
> that "varicella" is the standard term for chicken pox. It probably
> became a bit more common during the years when the disease was largely
> gone and people encountered it only in the name of the vaccine. Now
> that cases are on the rise, it's more common to hear of "whooping
> cough" in the news.

Isn't the "hooping cough" pronunciation onomatopoeic to some extent?

--
Guy Barry

[Jack Campin]

> Okay. How do you pronounce "Wole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

The way Wole Soyinka pronounces his name.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Katy Jennison]

That's the one. And that's the only pronunciation of "Wole" that most
of us have come across. So in order to make a point about "whole" being
pronounced "wole" as opposed to "hole", it's helpful to be clear that
it's not Wole.

At least, I thought so.

--
Katy Jennison

[Mike L]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:43:15 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 26/10/12 3:52 AM, R H Draney wrote:
>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>
>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).
>>
>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r
>>
>>
>
>That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>either (yet).

I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On 26 Oct 2012 00:46:32 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
wrote:

The afficionados say "GSD". AIUI, the name (dash it, it _is_ a name!)
was applied out of anti-German feeling during the First World War. It
even happened to the royal family, of course.

--
Mike.

[tony cooper]

The Colt reference disappoints me. I had you in mind for a
Webley-Fosbery with a ring in the butt of the grip with a lanyard
attached. A T.E. Lawrence sidearm.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Mike L]

Ah, well. I've always favoured the exotic. And Webleys had ludicrously
strong springs: you want to release your shot, not wrestle it out.

--
Mike.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Oct 26, 2:45 pm, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:43:15 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

...

> >That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
> >them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
> >either (yet).
>
> I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
> In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
> aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
> teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
> grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
> discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.

...

I suppose you'd have summoned help with a horne, but you didn't have a
lena.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robin Bignall]

Shooting downwards like that, you could have shot your peccary off.
Another Grimm tale that you couldn't have regaled sons and daughters
with.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[Robert Bannister]

On 26/10/12 1:22 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:53:59 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> That sort of thing's pretty common in English. Most people pronounce "at
>> all" at though it were "a tall".
>
> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of dog I had,
> I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it called (AmE=named).
>
>

And we know that many English words like orange, adder, apron have come
about precisely because people thought the initial "n" was part of "an".

--
Robert Bannister

[fabzorba]

On 24 Oct, 16:43, Harrison Hill <harrisonhill2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 24, 4:03 am, Berkeley Brett <royal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I hope you are well & in good spirits.
>
> > I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?
>

> > These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that you cannot trace to a known dialect; perhaps in a way that no one else of whom you are aware pronounces that word.
>
> > I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in childhood? in college?) resulted in these non-standard pronunciations.
>
> > If you have known such people, I'd be interested to learn of their peculiar pronunciations of their special words. Please do share them with us, if you would.
>
> > I'll give some instances....

>
> > A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a 'z' -- "abzurd"
>

> > A particularly charismatic acquaintance (and frequent public speaker) who pronounces the word "program" as if it were spelled "progrum" -- "PRO-grum"
>
> > An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')
>
> > An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled "melk". (This acquaintance also pronounces "Washington" as if it were spelled "Warshington". I assume he also "warshes" the dishes on occasion.)

>
> > A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the next word.
>

> > (This is an odd one indeed) A friend who pronounces the word "Friday" almost as if the 'd' were replaced with a 't' or some consonant in-between the two -- "Fritay" or "Fried-tay"; curiously, he does not pronounce the other days of the week with this hybrid consonant!)
>
> > A sociable acquaintance -- the chairman of a small investment company in San Francisco (California, USA) -- who dwells on the second syllable of the word "infrastructure" -- "in-FRAAH-structure".  He sometimes uses the word as if it is peculiarly profound and as if he is introducing it to you for the first time.
>
> > A friend & former professor (now sadly deceased -- he was the founder of the wonderful websitewww.aldaily.com) who pronounced the word "theologian" as "thee-AHHL-uh-jen". He didn't have a high opinion of theologians. I often thought it was a not-so-subtle expression of his feeling that "this profession is so unimportant that I don't even have to pronounce its name correctly". (He and I did not agree on this. Incidentally, shortly before his death, he gave this very interesting TED talk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PktUzdnBqWI)
>
> > Well, those are a few instances of "certain persons who pronounce certain words strangely."
>
> > I would be interested to learn of any such persons and usages that you've encountered.
>
> > Thank you in advance for anything you might care to share....
>
> In the UK these would be hang-overs of local dialects, which have
> pretty much died out over my lifetime. We used to get our friend to
> repeat "Vorksall" and "tth-brush" (Vauxhall and toothbrush) over and
> over - for our amusement; the sole remains of his Bridgwater in
> Somerset dialect.- Hide quoted text -
>
Get him to do it with a mouthful of Tabasco Sauce - it's a bit louder,
but SO much funnier...

[Robert Bannister]

Rhymes that are "close enough" are common in songs and even "real"
poetry and definitely good enough in this chant which also has assonance
and alliteration. I am not even sure whether "chalice" and "palace" are
true rhymes in my speech, but they're quite sufficient here.

In other words, it didn't matter enough for me to notice.
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

I presume the "peckery" is the male of the species.

--
Robert Bannister

[annily]

On 25.10.12 11:31, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc. One insisted that
>> dropping the "t" was wrong. She also insisted that the "w" in
>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.
>
>
> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).
>
>

I've always pronounced it that way.

[Mark Brader]

Guy Barry:

> > Didn't you realize that "pestle" was meant to rhyme with "vessel"?

Robert Bannister:

> Rhymes that are "close enough" are common in songs and even "real"

> poetry...

Point.

> I am not even sure whether "chalice" and "palace" are
> true rhymes in my speech, but they're quite sufficient here.

Both pairs are true rhymes for me. Pess'll, vess'll, challiss,
palliss. Also, of course, flagon and dragon.
--
Mark Brader | "Courtly love-poetry may first have been written
Toronto | during long periods of abstinence on the Crusades,
m...@vex.net | but it would not have flourished in the cold of
| northern Europe without some help from the chimney."
| -- James Burke

[R H Draney]

Robert Bannister filted:

Around here they go by "javelino"....

Since the weekend is here, time for more silly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBsC8uQ-tgs

....r

[Bob Martin]

Thank you, that's exactly what I was trying to do.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Or vice versa, as in the case of "newt" (originally "ewte").

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |The look on our faces isn't confusion.
SF Bay Area (1982-) |It's disbelief.
Chicago (1964-1982) |
| Jon Stewart
evan.kir...@gmail.com

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:af0or5...@mid.individual.net...

They are in mine: /'tS&lIs/ and /'p&lIs/ (both with a short "i" sound in the
last syllable). I've often heard "palace" with a schwa, though.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
news:yo6dnVhDofNX_RbN...@vex.net...

> Robert Bannister:

> > I am not even sure whether "chalice" and "palace" are
> > true rhymes in my speech, but they're quite sufficient here.

> Both pairs are true rhymes for me. Pess'll, vess'll, challiss,
> palliss.

And "brew" and "true", of course. Funnily enough, though, I can never get
"pellet" to rhyme with "poison".

> Also, of course, flagon and dragon.

Was there a flagon with a dragon? I don't remember that one.

--
Guy Barry

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:33:05 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>

>"Mark Brader" wrote in message
>news:yo6dnVhDofNX_RbN...@vex.net...
>
>> Robert Bannister:
>
>> > I am not even sure whether "chalice" and "palace" are
>> > true rhymes in my speech, but they're quite sufficient here.
>
>> Both pairs are true rhymes for me. Pess'll, vess'll, challiss,
>> palliss.
>
>And "brew" and "true", of course. Funnily enough, though, I can never get
>"pellet" to rhyme with "poison".

I shouted "Wole!" every time one got gored.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk