Isabelline: The Color of Three-Year Old Underwear (Never Changed)

[Mack A. Damia]

From Michael Quinion this week:

"Isabelline refers to a colour. The dictionaries variously describe it
as greyish-yellow, light buff, pale cream-brown, dingy yellowish grey
or drab. The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary tries hardest to
tie it down: “a moderate yellowish brown to light olive brown that is
lighter and stronger than clay drab or medal bronze”. It has also been
described as the colour of parchment or sand."

"The female name Isabella can similarly refer to the colour. Its first
appearance in English is in an inventory of the wardrobe of Queen
Elizabeth I in 1600: “one rounde gowne of Isabella-colour satten ...
set with silver bangles”. Versions of it are known in various European
languages from about the same date, including French, German, Spanish
and Italian, usually for the colour of a horse."

"The origin is unclear. That has led to stories growing up that
associate Isabella (and by implication isabelline) with an historical
event involving a noble lady by that name. One identifies her as
Isabella, Archduchess of Austria, daughter of Philip II of Spain. He
laid siege to Ostend in 1601 and in a moment of filial fervour
Isabella vowed not to change her undergarments until the city was
taken. Unfortunately for her (and no doubt for those around her) the
siege lasted another three years, supposedly leading to this
off-colour word for over-worn underwear."

http://www.worldwidewords.org/

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:33:13 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> From Michael Quinion this week:
>
> "Isabelline refers to a colour. The dictionaries variously describe it
> as greyish-yellow, light buff, pale cream-brown, dingy yellowish grey
> or drab. The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary tries hardest to
> tie it down: “a moderate yellowish brown to light olive brown that is
> lighter and stronger than clay drab or medal bronze”. It has also been
> described as the colour of parchment or sand."

I wonder what "The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary" refers to
-- they never published a work with that name.

My magnificent 1890s Funk & Wagnall's two-volume monster defined
each color name it included according to its designation in a
"color solid" that is described in great detail. However, it's two
stories down in a dark cabinet and I'm not going to check it now.

> "The female name Isabella can similarly refer to the colour. Its first
> appearance in English is in an inventory of the wardrobe of Queen
> Elizabeth I in 1600: “one rounde gowne of Isabella-colour satten ...
> set with silver bangles”. Versions of it are known in various European
> languages from about the same date, including French, German, Spanish
> and Italian, usually for the colour of a horse."
>
> "The origin is unclear. That has led to stories growing up that
> associate Isabella (and by implication isabelline) with an historical

"an historical"?? And this guy is supposed to be some sort of authority?

> event involving a noble lady by that name. One identifies her as
> Isabella, Archduchess of Austria, daughter of Philip II of Spain. He
> laid siege to Ostend in 1601 and in a moment of filial fervour
> Isabella vowed not to change her undergarments until the city was
> taken. Unfortunately for her (and no doubt for those around her) the
> siege lasted another three years, supposedly leading to this
> off-colour word for over-worn underwear."
>
> http://www.worldwidewords.org/

Even more unfortunately for the story, the first attestation of the
word predates the beginning of that siege by a year.

[occam]

It strikes me that what is needed to describe three-year unwashed panty
is not a colour ("isabelline") , but a smell - I suggest "fermentine"?

[Mack A. Damia]

There's even an associated cheese. "Fromunda".

Soft. Related to Port Salut.

[LFS]

That's what the OED says too:

(Various stories have been put forth to account for the name. That given
in D'Israeli Cur. Lit. (Article Anecdotes of Fashion), and also in
Littré, associating it with the archduchess Isabella and the siege of
Ostend 1601–4, is shown by quot. 1600 to be chronologically impossible.)



--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[Mack A. Damia]

"A variation of the legend refers to Isabella I of Castile and the
eight-month siege of Granada by Ferdinand II of Aragon starting in
April 1491. This siege ended in January 1492 and again was said to
have resulted in over worn shift belonging to an Isabella." (Quinion)

http://www.cafepress.com/+queen_isabella_i_of_spain_classic_thong,53249007

[LFS]

Where did that come from? It's not on this page from Quinion's web site:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-isa1.htm

(I don't view Quinion as very authoritative, anyway.)

>
> http://www.cafepress.com/+queen_isabella_i_of_spain_classic_thong,53249007

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2016 18:26:45 +0100, LFS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabelline_(colour)

(Quinion is the reference on this Wiki page, but there are many other
references via Google for this particular story. Seems as though it
would be more realistic.)

>http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-isa1.htm
>
>(I don't view Quinion as very authoritative, anyway.)

If you read his analysis, he clearly states, "The origin is unclear.

That has led to stories growing up that associate Isabella (and by

implication isabelline) with an historical event involving a noble
lady by that name."

I think he included the story for the sake of amusement. I find his
columns interesting; I don't take much as the "gospel truth" in
today's relative world. One blessed quality that I have acquired
through education and age is to question knowledge and especially
those who dare to impart it.

>> http://www.cafepress.com/+queen_isabella_i_of_spain_classic_thong,53249007

[Robert Bannister]

There seems to be a tradition of smelly Isabellas.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Oliver Cromm]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:33:13 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> From Michael Quinion this week:
>>
>> "Isabelline refers to a colour. The dictionaries variously describe it
>> as greyish-yellow, light buff, pale cream-brown, dingy yellowish grey
>> or drab. The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary tries hardest to
>> tie it down: “a moderate yellowish brown to light olive brown that is
>> lighter and stronger than clay drab or medal bronze”. It has also been
>> described as the colour of parchment or sand."
>
> I wonder what "The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary" refers to
> -- they never published a work with that name.

No idea if they ever printed one by that name, but it exists
online:

<http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/>

--
Bug:
An elusive creature living in a program that makes it incorrect.
The activity of "debugging," or removing bugs from a program, ends
when people get tired of doing it, not when the bugs are removed.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 18:13:02 -0400, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:33:13 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> From Michael Quinion this week:
>>>
>>> "Isabelline refers to a colour. The dictionaries variously describe it
>>> as greyish-yellow, light buff, pale cream-brown, dingy yellowish grey
>>> or drab. The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary tries hardest to
>>> tie it down: “a moderate yellowish brown to light olive brown that is
>>> lighter and stronger than clay drab or medal bronze”. It has also been
>>> described as the colour of parchment or sand."
>>
>> I wonder what "The Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary" refers to
>> -- they never published a work with that name.
>
>No idea if they ever printed one by that name, but it exists
>online:
>
><http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/>

Not under that name. That website says:

Merriam-Webster Unabridged is the largest, most comprehensive
American dictionary currently available in print or online. It is
built on the solid foundation of "Webster's Third New International
Dictionary, Unabridged" and is the best source of current
information about the English language.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)