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Re: "current" and "basic course"
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Paul Wolff
Feb 22, 2020, 12:48:59 PM2/22/20
to
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 14:00:35, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
posted:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
I'd say "current" is the most accurate translation. "Recent" isn't good.
It can be recent but already out of date. "Latest" (mentioned in a
follow-up by you) may still be a development version. But "current" and
"latest" are borderline synonyms.
I write as a lay customer, not as an industry insider who may have a
completely different vocabulary.
>
> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
>
> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
> Germany.
I don't think so, but I don't have wide experience of such things.
However, for an extended two-section learning process, I think the best
English term for the first part (Grundkurs) would be "Foundation course"
because it captures the same idea - something to build on later - better
than "Basic course". For the second part, we sometimes use "Development
course". I'm going to be teaching at a "Development course in ...[the
subject, which those attending will already be familiar with the basics
of]" next April. The label "Advanced course" doesn't convey the "Aufbau"
idea of progress nearly so well as "Development" does.
>
> Is this not a thing in English-speaking countries, or are
> there other terms used for it than "basic course" and
> "advanced course"? (maybe "basic class" and "advanced
> class"? - but these also give some German/Germany related
> pages among the first search results.)
>
--
Paul
posted:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
I'd say "current" is the most accurate translation. "Recent" isn't good.
It can be recent but already out of date. "Latest" (mentioned in a
follow-up by you) may still be a development version. But "current" and
"latest" are borderline synonyms.
I write as a lay customer, not as an industry insider who may have a
completely different vocabulary.
>
> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
>
> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
> Germany.
I don't think so, but I don't have wide experience of such things.
However, for an extended two-section learning process, I think the best
English term for the first part (Grundkurs) would be "Foundation course"
because it captures the same idea - something to build on later - better
than "Basic course". For the second part, we sometimes use "Development
course". I'm going to be teaching at a "Development course in ...[the
subject, which those attending will already be familiar with the basics
of]" next April. The label "Advanced course" doesn't convey the "Aufbau"
idea of progress nearly so well as "Development" does.
>
> Is this not a thing in English-speaking countries, or are
> there other terms used for it than "basic course" and
> "advanced course"? (maybe "basic class" and "advanced
> class"? - but these also give some German/Germany related
> pages among the first search results.)
>
--
Paul
John Varela
Feb 22, 2020, 4:44:32 PM2/22/20
to
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 14:00:35 UTC, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan
Ram) wrote:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
>
Ram) wrote:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
>
> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
>
> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
> Germany.
The first course is sometimes labeled "Introductory". More often
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
>
> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
> Germany.
the two courses would be simply Coursename I and Coursename 2, or
some similar numbering system.
> Is this not a thing in English-speaking countries, or are
> there other terms used for it than "basic course" and
> "advanced course"? (maybe "basic class" and "advanced
> class"? - but these also give some German/Germany related
> pages among the first search results.)
>
>
>
--
John Varela
Peter T. Daniels
Feb 22, 2020, 4:54:21 PM2/22/20
to
English.
> However, for an extended two-section learning process, I think the best
> English term for the first part (Grundkurs) would be "Foundation course"
> because it captures the same idea - something to build on later - better
> than "Basic course". For the second part, we sometimes use "Development
> course". I'm going to be teaching at a "Development course in ...[the
> subject, which those attending will already be familiar with the basics
> of]" next April. The label "Advanced course" doesn't convey the "Aufbau"
> idea of progress nearly so well as "Development" does.
Physics"? The latter strikes me as far more technical -- as if it burrows
deep into the nature of the science and discovers its very foundations.
Courses wouldn't be called by the names "basic" and "advanced," because
they are too unspecific. A department might offer two introductory courses,
one for non-majors who were simply interested in the subject, and one to
prepare the student for future work in the field -- and that future work
would be in the form of a large assortment of "advanced" courses, some of
them required, some of them "electives."
"Development" just isn't used that way at all in American education.
Peter Moylan
Feb 22, 2020, 7:26:35 PM2/22/20
to
On 23/02/20 08:54, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Are your first-year textbooks called e.g. "Basic Physics" or
> "Fundamental Physics"? The latter strikes me as far more technical --
> as if it burrows deep into the nature of the science and discovers
> its very foundations.
Mathematics breaks all the rules. Something called "Advanced Calculus"
> Are your first-year textbooks called e.g. "Basic Physics" or
> "Fundamental Physics"? The latter strikes me as far more technical --
> as if it burrows deep into the nature of the science and discovers
> its very foundations.
is likely to be a first-year university text, while "An Introduction to
..." is probably Honours or Masters-Level material.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
David Kleinecke
Feb 22, 2020, 9:37:44 PM2/22/20
to
On Saturday, February 22, 2020 at 4:26:35 PM UTC-8, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/02/20 08:54, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > Are your first-year textbooks called e.g. "Basic Physics" or
> > "Fundamental Physics"? The latter strikes me as far more technical --
> > as if it burrows deep into the nature of the science and discovers
> > its very foundations.
>
> Mathematics breaks all the rules. Something called "Advanced Calculus"
> is likely to be a first-year university text, while "An Introduction to
> ..." is probably Honours or Masters-Level material.
Are there books on Introductory String Theory?
> On 23/02/20 08:54, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > Are your first-year textbooks called e.g. "Basic Physics" or
> > "Fundamental Physics"? The latter strikes me as far more technical --
> > as if it burrows deep into the nature of the science and discovers
> > its very foundations.
>
> Mathematics breaks all the rules. Something called "Advanced Calculus"
> is likely to be a first-year university text, while "An Introduction to
> ..." is probably Honours or Masters-Level material.
String Theory for Dummies?
RH Draney
Feb 23, 2020, 12:22:22 AM2/23/20
to
Peter Moylan
Feb 23, 2020, 1:26:16 AM2/23/20
to
Kerr-Mudd,John
Feb 23, 2020, 6:26:31 AM2/23/20
to
It will start in 5...4...3...2...1
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Paul Carmichael
Feb 23, 2020, 6:53:52 AM2/23/20
to
On 22/02/2020 15:00, Stefan Ram wrote:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
Same from Spanish. "Actualizar" is update. El alcalde actual = the current mayor.
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
The English version (actualise) is a false friend and means make real.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
J. J. Lodder
Feb 23, 2020, 10:14:06 AM2/23/20
to
"An Introduction to String Theory'
> String Theory for Dummies?
Yes,
Jan
Jerry Friedman
Feb 23, 2020, 10:58:02 AM2/23/20
to
On 2/22/20 10:48 AM, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 14:00:35, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> posted:
>> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
>> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
>> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>>
>> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
>> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
>> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
>> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
>> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
>> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
>> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
>> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
>> better than "current" here?)
>
> I'd say "current" is the most accurate translation. "Recent" isn't good.
> It can be recent but already out of date. "Latest" (mentioned in a
> follow-up by you) may still be a development version. But "current" and
> "latest" are borderline synonyms.
>
> I write as a lay customer, not as an industry insider who may have a
> completely different vocabulary.
As another lay customer, I'd say "an up-to-date version of Windows" is
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 14:00:35, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> posted:
>> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
>> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
>> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>>
>> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
>> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
>> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
>> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
>> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
>> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
>> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
>> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
>> better than "current" here?)
>
> I'd say "current" is the most accurate translation. "Recent" isn't good.
> It can be recent but already out of date. "Latest" (mentioned in a
> follow-up by you) may still be a development version. But "current" and
> "latest" are borderline synonyms.
>
> I write as a lay customer, not as an industry insider who may have a
> completely different vocabulary.
also idiomatic.
>> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
>> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
>> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
>> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
>> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
>> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>>
>> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
>> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
>> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
>> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
>> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
>> two German-language web pages.
>>
>> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
>> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
>> Germany.
>
> I don't think so, but I don't have wide experience of such things.
course" in American English. "Advanced course" is fine.
Students at the community college where I teach refer to "getting their
basics", taking the introductory courses and "general education" courses
they need before they can go on to more advanced course, probably at a
four-year college.
> However, for an extended two-section learning process, I think the best
> English term for the first part (Grundkurs) would be "Foundation course"
> because it captures the same idea - something to build on later - better
> than "Basic course". For the second part, we sometimes use "Development
> course". I'm going to be teaching at a "Development course in ...[the
> subject, which those attending will already be familiar with the basics
> of]" next April. The label "Advanced course" doesn't convey the "Aufbau"
> idea of progress nearly so well as "Development" does.
I haven't run into "development course". In the U.S., developmental
courses are those taught by colleges to students who didn't learn what
they should have in high school--or junior high.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Feb 23, 2020, 11:01:42 AM2/23/20
to
On 2/22/20 7:00 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
>
> In German, we have some common wordings that give me a
> slight "off" vibe when translated into English, in the
> sense that it might not be idiomatic English.
>
> A common German word is "aktuelle" as in "eine aktuelle
> Windows version". The translation usually offered for this
> is "a current version of Windows". But often, when "aktuell"
> is translated with "current", I wonder whether this is
> really idiomatic English. What do you think about "a current
> version of Windows"? Is this the most probable wording a
> native speaker would use for a recent version of Windows?
> (Maybe I have just answered my question, and "recent" is
> better than "current" here?)
>
> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
Omit the hyphens: "a .de domain", etc.
> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>
> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
> two German-language web pages.
> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
> Germany.
Keep in mind that Google customizes results. The reason it shows you
German results is probably that you've searched for German things. When
I search for "basic course" "advanced course" I get nothing having to do
with Germany on the first page. Most of the results have to do with the
U.S. military, which is odd because I seldom if ever search for
military-related things.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
Feb 23, 2020, 11:16:59 AM2/23/20
to
days, such courses were usually called 1 or 101.
--
Ken
Jerry Friedman
Feb 23, 2020, 11:26:21 AM2/23/20
to
On 2/23/20 9:16 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 2/23/2020 8:57 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 2/22/20 10:48 AM, Paul Wolff wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 14:00:35, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
>>> posted:
...
> On 2/23/2020 8:57 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 2/22/20 10:48 AM, Paul Wolff wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 14:00:35, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
>>> posted:
>>>> Two other German ideas are "Grundkurs" und "Aufbaukurs" -
>>>> to explain the meaning: A long course often is splitted into
>>>> two parts in Germany: the first part teaches the fundamentals
>>>> and is called "Grundkurs"; the second part teaches material
>>>> that is more advanced than the material of the "Grundkurs"
>>>> and is called "Aufbaukurs".
>>>>
>>>> These are usually translated as "basic course" and "advanced
>>>> course". But when I search for ["basic course" "advanced course"],
>>>> the first two hits are from a .de-domain (i.e., a web site
>>>> from Germany), then two .org-domains and one .info-domain
>>>> and then again two .de-domains, three other domains and then
>>>> two German-language web pages.
>>>>
>>>> So, somehow, even the translated terms "basic course" and
>>>> "advanced course" still seem to be associated with German or
>>>> Germany.
>>>
>>> I don't think so, but I don't have wide experience of such things.
>>
>> I think "introductory course" is probably more common than "basic
>> course" in American English.
>
>
> It's been a lot of years since I was in college, but at least in those
> days, such courses were usually called 1 or 101.
sentence like "Freshmen mostly take __", I'd say "introductory courses"
would be normal and something like "101 course" would be a bit whimsical.
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Wolff
Feb 23, 2020, 12:52:36 PM2/23/20
to
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, at 18:37:42, David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com>
posted:
On the subject of Dummies, earlier this month while wandering through
Blackwell's bookshop in Oxford I came upon Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
for Dummies. For some reason I burst out laughing. Heads were turned.
--
Paul
posted:
Blackwell's bookshop in Oxford I came upon Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
for Dummies. For some reason I burst out laughing. Heads were turned.
--
Paul
Paul Carmichael
Feb 23, 2020, 1:22:58 PM2/23/20
to
On 23/02/2020 17:01, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Keep in mind that Google customizes results. The reason it shows you German results is
> probably that you've searched for German things. When I search for "basic course"
> "advanced course" I get nothing having to do with Germany on the first page. Most of the
> results have to do with the U.S. military, which is odd because I seldom if ever search
> for military-related things.
>
Whenever I search using google, all the first results are in Spanish, even googling very
> Keep in mind that Google customizes results. The reason it shows you German results is
> probably that you've searched for German things. When I search for "basic course"
> "advanced course" I get nothing having to do with Germany on the first page. Most of the
> results have to do with the U.S. military, which is odd because I seldom if ever search
> for military-related things.
>
English phrases.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Feb 23, 2020, 2:30:57 PM2/23/20
to
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
Feb 24, 2020, 6:23:14 AM2/24/20
to
On 24/02/20 04:42, Paul Wolff wrote:
>
> On the subject of Dummies, earlier this month while wandering through
> Blackwell's bookshop in Oxford I came upon Cognitive Behavioural
> Therapy for Dummies. For some reason I burst out laughing. Heads were
> turned.
I had a similar laugh-out-loud experience in a bookshop once because of
>
> On the subject of Dummies, earlier this month while wandering through
> Blackwell's bookshop in Oxford I came upon Cognitive Behavioural
> Therapy for Dummies. For some reason I burst out laughing. Heads were
> turned.
two books that were side by side on a shelf. I've forgotten the exact
titles, but they were something like "Linux for intelligent users" and
"Windows for Dummies".
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