My Aussie friend chastised me to stop being a "sook"

[Alex]

Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".

[Peter T. Daniels]

Does it rhyme with "book" or with "spook"?

Did you get an explanation?

[Steve Hayes]

Book rhymes with spook in MyE.

But there's something missing in the subject line.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[annily]

A sook is a cry-baby.

--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia

[annily]

On 23.07.13 16:53, annily wrote:
> On 23.07.13 11:48, Alex wrote:
>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>
>
> A sook is a cry-baby.
>

Here's the full entry from the Macquarie Dictionary:

-------
sook
/sook/
noun
1. Also, sookie.
a poddy calf.
2. (usually with children)a timid, shy, cowardly person; a cry-baby:*
The teacher watched him walk away and thought, hating himself for it:
cry-baby, sook, bellowing big calf of a boy. -- GARRY DISHER, 1986


[cf. 19thC British slang sock an overgrown baby, and British dialect
sokerel an unweaned child; ? reflexes of Old English sucan to suck]
sooky adjective
------

[Swifty]

On 23/07/2013 08:27, annily wrote:
> ... a poddy calf ...

So what does "poddy" mean? (Digging us in deeper)

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/

[Scion]

Swifty put finger to keyboard:

> On 23/07/2013 08:27, annily wrote:
>> ... a poddy calf ...
>
> So what does "poddy" mean? (Digging us in deeper)

Having the characteristics of a pod, natch.

[Swifty]

Coincidentally, "Sook" just turned up in today's "A Word a day" mailing
list.

See http://wordsmith.org/words/sook.html

[Cheryl]

Interesting! It's a local term here (Newfoundland, Canada) meaning
someone who's sulking unreasonably about something, or perhaps whining
about having to do something.


--
Cheryl

[Steve Hayes]

Is that why she took the kettle off again?

[Jack Campin]

> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".

Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
got it from.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:15:53 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
> > Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>
> > of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
> > me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>
> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
> got it from.

So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?

(The Macquarie pronunciation key is useless without an explanation of the Macquarie pronunciation key.)

[Cheryl]

Like look or book.

--
Cheryl

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 07/23/13 07:47 am, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>
>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>> got it from.
>
> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>
> (The Macquarie pronunciation key is useless without an explanation of the Macquarie pronunciation key.)

"Sook" (as used in AusE) rhymes with "book". At least, that's the way I
always heard it.

Perce

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

That narrows it down to at least two sounds in BrE.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:57:48 AM UTC-4, Cheryl wrote:
> On 2013-07-23 9:17 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:15:53 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
>
> >>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
> >>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
> >>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>
> >> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
> >> got it from.
>

> > So does no one know whether it's a "long oo" or a "short oo"?

>
> > (The Macquarie pronunciation key is useless without an explanation of the
Macquarie pronunciation key.)
>
> Like look or book.

Thank you for a comprehensible response.

[Peter T. Daniels]

However, the word was pronounced only once, and by an Australian,
so I fail to see how that is relevant.

Or is it your claim that those two words do not rhyme in BrE?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Those two words rhyme in BrE but with various versions of the "oo"
sound. Not all BrE pronunciations of "look" and "book" will rhyme with
the Australian or Scottish pronunciatio(s) of "sook".

[Mac]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 02:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
wrote:

>Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".

Speaking -an- American English dialect - well, several, but me
cradle-tongue is New Englandish, influenced both by Boston Irish and
by Yankee- I have heard the word well before today. It's used in
some parts of Canuckistan.

Anthony "They don't call it Nova Scotia for nothing" McCafferty

[Alex]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 20:29:36 -0700, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Did you get an explanation?

The inference I intimated wasn't complementary!

[Skitt]

Alex wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>> Did you get an explanation?
>
> The inference I intimated wasn't complementary!
>

I think, you meant "complimentary".

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

[Alex]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:09:06 -0700, Skitt wrote:

>> The inference I intimated wasn't complementary!
>>
> I think, you meant "complimentary".

Thanks! Much appreciated admonition!

In my ignorance, I had not even realized, until the moment
you pointed it out, that these are two very different words:
compliment = flattering
complement = completing

I compliment you for the complimentary correction, which
complements the high level of expertise of this newsgroup.

[Bill McCray]

Where's the Like button?

Bill in Kentucky

[Oliver Cromm]

* Mac:

Wiktionary, which has quite a comprehensive article on "sook",
gives the meaning in question as a slang expression from
Australia, Atlantic Canada and New Zealand. An odd collection
without adding Scottish as the likely source.

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>

--
Performance: A statement of the speed at which a computer system
works. Or rather, might work under certain circumstances. Or was
rumored to be working over in Jersey about a month ago.

[Oliver Cromm]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

That is not required at all, nay, that is actually irrelevant. The
only relevant question is which two words rhyme for one specific
speaker.

--
The Internet? Is that thing still around? - Homer Simpson

[Cheryl]

On 7/23/2013 6:39 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Mac:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 02:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>
>> Speaking -an- American English dialect - well, several, but me
>> cradle-tongue is New Englandish, influenced both by Boston Irish and
>> by Yankee- I have heard the word well before today. It's used in
>> some parts of Canuckistan.
>>
>> Anthony "They don't call it Nova Scotia for nothing" McCafferty
>
> Wiktionary, which has quite a comprehensive article on "sook",
> gives the meaning in question as a slang expression from
> Australia, Atlantic Canada and New Zealand. An odd collection
> without adding Scottish as the likely source.
>
> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>
>

It says sook means a cow or sheep in Newfoundland. It may have, at some
time and in some places - not that long ago there were many dialects
here, and they could vary from one outport to the next. But I have never
in my life heard is used or used it myself to refer to a cow or a sheep.
I checked the Dictionary of Newfoundland English, and that supports
Wiktionary, but also includes its use to describe a person. That's the
only meaning I ever knew.

I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
site:

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html


--
Cheryl

[Oliver Cromm]

* Cheryl:

Then maybe that entry should be marked "obsolete".

> I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
> site:
>
> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html

<http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/azindex/pages/4447.html>

--
If you kill one person, you go to jail; if you kill 20, you go
to an institution for the insane; if you kill 20,000, you get
political asylum. -- Reed Brody, special counsel
for prosecutions at Human Rights Watch

[R H Draney]

Alex filted:

>
>In my ignorance, I had not even realized, until the moment
>you pointed it out, that these are two very different words:
> compliment = flattering
> complement = completing
>
>I compliment you for the complimentary correction, which
>complements the high level of expertise of this newsgroup.

Now do one with "station{a|e}ry"....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[R H Draney]

Scion filted:

I.e., possessing only 2p?...r

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:49:40 PM UTC-4, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Cheryl:
> > On 7/23/2013 6:39 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:

> >> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>
>
> > It says sook means a cow or sheep in Newfoundland. It may have, at some
> > time and in some places - not that long ago there were many dialects
> > here, and they could vary from one outport to the next. But I have never
> > in my life heard is used or used it myself to refer to a cow or a sheep.
> > I checked the Dictionary of Newfoundland English, and that supports
> > Wiktionary, but also includes its use to describe a person. That's the
> > only meaning I ever knew.
>
> Then maybe that entry should be marked "obsolete".
>
> > I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
> > site:
>
> > http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html
>
> <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/azindex/pages/4447.html>

But it's simply copied from an earlier source, 1968 DILLON -- does the site include a key to the bibliographic abbreviations, or do you need to go to the print original to find out how legitimate that entry is?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:58:54 PM UTC-4, R H Draney wrote:

> Now do one with "station{a|e}ry"....r

StationEry is papEr, stationAry is stAnding still.

[Cheryl]

Yes, the bibliography is on the same site:

1968 DILLON = Virginia M. Dillon,'The Anglo-Irish Element in the Speech
of the Southern Shore of Newfoundland' (St John's: Memorial University
M.A. Thesis, 1968)

--
Cheryl

[Peter Moylan]

It also rhymes with chook. Does that help?

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Jack Campin]

>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>> got it from.
> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?

In Scots it's usually long, like "spook", but I think I've heard
the short one occasionally too.

[Robert Bannister]

On 23/07/13 10:18 AM, Alex wrote:
> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>

I tracked that down to a mainly west country English dialect where
"sookie calf" is a calf still at teat. I suppose a sook is close to a wuss.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 23/07/13 6:09 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 06:50:07 -0230, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> wrote:

>
>> On 7/22/2013 11:48 PM, Alex wrote:
>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>
>>

>> Interesting! It's a local term here (Newfoundland, Canada) meaning
>> someone who's sulking unreasonably about something, or perhaps whining
>> about having to do something.
>
> Is that why she took the kettle off again?
>
>

Wasn't that Poddy?

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 23/07/13 7:15 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>

> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
> got it from.

My source suggested "West Country, England". There was possibly a
Bristol influence on early Aussie English as seen in the now moribund
sentence ending "well": e.g. "What'cher doin', well?" = "So, what are
you doing?"
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Not in the most commonly spoken BrE, it doesn't.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/07/13 5:09 AM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Mac:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 02:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>
>> Speaking -an- American English dialect - well, several, but me
>> cradle-tongue is New Englandish, influenced both by Boston Irish and
>> by Yankee- I have heard the word well before today. It's used in
>> some parts of Canuckistan.
>>
>> Anthony "They don't call it Nova Scotia for nothing" McCafferty
>
> Wiktionary, which has quite a comprehensive article on "sook",
> gives the meaning in question as a slang expression from
> Australia, Atlantic Canada and New Zealand. An odd collection
> without adding Scottish as the likely source.
>
> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>
>

That is the second source that suggest a comparison with British slang
"sock". Has anybody ever come across that? I'm sure I haven't. In fact,
the only slang use of "sock" I know is as a gag in "Put a sock in it".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Ooher. I tried using "Search" and got a page of code.

--
Robert Bannister

[Skitt]

Robert Bannister wrote:
> Steve Hayes wrote:

>> Cheryl wrote:
>>> Alex wrote:

>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>
>>> Interesting! It's a local term here (Newfoundland, Canada) meaning
>>> someone who's sulking unreasonably about something, or perhaps whining
>>> about having to do something.
>>
>> Is that why she took the kettle off again?
>
> Wasn't that Poddy?
>

That made me wonder -- whatever happened to Piddy?

[annily]

On 24.07.13 09:18, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>>> got it from.
>> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>
> In Scots it's usually long, like "spook", but I think I've heard
> the short one occasionally too.
>

It's always the short sound in Australia.


--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia

[Peter T. Daniels]

That doesn't help much with the putative Scots or Scottish (or Gaelic?)
background!

[Peter T. Daniels]

"Sukey" (I think Aunt Sukey) is a character in some classic of American
literature -- but which? Mark Twain? Truman Capote? Eudora Welty? (You see I'm trending Midwest and South.)

[Mac]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:09:02 -0400, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Mac:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 02:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>
>> Speaking -an- American English dialect - well, several, but me
>> cradle-tongue is New Englandish, influenced both by Boston Irish and
>> by Yankee- I have heard the word well before today. It's used in
>> some parts of Canuckistan.
>>
>> Anthony "They don't call it Nova Scotia for nothing" McCafferty
>
>Wiktionary, which has quite a comprehensive article on "sook",
>gives the meaning in question as a slang expression from
>Australia, Atlantic Canada and New Zealand. An odd collection
>without adding Scottish as the likely source.
>
><https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>

Oh, Nova Hibernia, alias Newfiestan, will work, too. Or Nova
Perfidia. You have vocabulary from England, Wales, Cornwall, Man,
Cumbria, Galloways, Northumberland, Lowlands, Highlands, Plantation
Scots, the Four Kingdoms, France, and, God save us, the Basqueland, to
say nothing of NewEnglandese reintroduced with Loyalists, trade, and
the Banks fisheries. All once linked better by water than by land.

Anthony "Atlantic Canadian is less boring than you'd expect"
McCafferty

[John Holmes]

Jack Campin wrote:
>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>>> got it from.
>> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>
> In Scots it's usually long, like "spook", but I think I've heard
> the short one occasionally too.

Would those who rhyme it with "spook" also use the long vowel in "book"? So,
could you still say that "sook" rhymes with "book" for everyone?

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:01:54 +1000, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 23/07/13 22:45, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:27:48 -0230, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2013-07-23 9:17 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:15:53 AM UTC-4, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>>>
>>>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>>>>> got it from.
>>>>
>>>> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>>>>
>>>> (The Macquarie pronunciation key is useless without an explanation of the Macquarie pronunciation key.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Like look or book.
>>
>> That narrows it down to at least two sounds in BrE.
>>
>It also rhymes with chook. Does that help?

Probably not.

In some BrE dialects the "oo" in "look", "book" and "chook" rhymes with
that in "choose" and "woo".


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

The OED says:

sook, n.3 and int.

Etymology: Probably < suck v.: see Eng. Dial. Dict.
Sc. and U.S. dial.

A. n.3
A familiar name for a cow; in Scotland (rare) a calf.

1850 L. H. Garrard Wah-to-Yah xii. 178 The..cows looked quite
different from the patient, chewing ‘Suke’ of the American farmer.

B. int.

A call used to summon or drive cattle (in Scotland, generally
calves); freq. in sook cow.

1867 G. W. Harris Sut Lovingood 24 Yu mout jis' es well
say..Suke cow tu a gal.
1880 W. H. Patterson Gloss. Words Antrim & Down 101 Suck! Suck!
a call to a calf.
1893 H. A. Shands Some Peculiarities of Speech in Mississippi 76
Suke (sûk), the commonly used word for calling cows. The word cow
is sometimes added to it, so as to make sukow (sûkau), the u being
long drawn out in the pronunciation.
1897 Amer. Anthropologist 10 98 In Virginia and Alabama it [sc.
the call to a cow] becomes sookow, sookow.
1906 H. Pittman Belle of Bluegrass Country xii. 176 ‘Sook Cow,
Sook Cow,’ called the milker.
1961 Amer. Speech 36 266 [The expression] sook boss..is an
obvious combination of Midland sook! and Northern boss!, both
calls to cows in pasture.
1978 A. Fenton Northern Isles liii. 438 Orkney call words to
calves were peed.., and ‘sook! sook!’ or ‘sucko! sucko!’ (from
‘suck’).

[Cheryl]

I thought that was a nickname for Susan.

--
Cheryl

[Cheryl]

That would fit with "sook" surviving in Newfoundland, where most of the
settlers came from the West Country of England or southeastern Ireland.

There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the
aptly-named Nova Scotia), but allegedly until the 20th century,
'bilingual' there meant bilingual in English and Gaelic, not English and
French. That may merely be a myth - after all there are Acadians there
too - but would Gaelic-speaking Scots use "sook"?

--
Cheryl

[Cheryl]

I was just pointing out that more information was available, not that it
was comprehensive or useful unless you look up the thesis, which is
surely available in the local university library. It's probably not
online, though.

If she studied the people of the southern shore of Newfoundland, I'm
willing to bet she didn't encounter any Scots and certainly encountered
none who spoke Gaelic. And I'm not basing this on her title or on having
dug up a copy of the thesis, but on what I know of the settlement
patterns of the area.

--
Cheryl

[Oliver Cromm]

* Robert Bannister:

Yeah, that is pretty bad. I found my link, by the way, by klicking
on S, looking for "sook" and then copying the link from there.

"Ooher" was new to me, and only Urban Dictionary lists it of all
the dictionaries at onelook.com. Is that regional or a bit of new
International Internet English?

--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch

[Oliver Cromm]

* Robert Bannister:

First, I don't think Wiktionary is a "source" of anything. What's
the other one?

Then, it explicitly says "19th century slang", so most of us will
have had few chances to encounter it. A lot of 19th century slang
is probably lost. But yes, if it's mentioned in a dictionary,
there should be evidence.

--
If you kill one person, you go to jail; if you kill 20, you go
to an institution for the insane; if you kill 20,000, you get
political asylum. -- Reed Brody, special counsel
for prosecutions at Human Rights Watch

[Tony Cooper]

I can't think of a book character, but you might know Sukey Tawdry
who, along with Jenny Diver and Lucy Brown, provided income to Mackie
Messer.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Mark Brader]

Cheryl Perkins:
> That would fit with "sook" surviving in Newfoundland...

>
> There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the

> aptly-named Nova Scotia)...

Southwest! And that's if you don't count Labrador.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Alas, there is NO SUCH THING as 'NO SUCH THING as
m...@vex.net | privileged access.'" -- Alan Silverstein

[Peter T. Daniels]

Certainly not impossible ... but does added "k" figure in hypocoristics
outside Yiddish? "Sue" or "Susie" are common.

[Cheryl]

On 2013-07-24 11:43 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Cheryl Perkins:
>> That would fit with "sook" surviving in Newfoundland...
>>
>> There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the
>> aptly-named Nova Scotia)...
>
> Southwest! And that's if you don't count Labrador.
>

Well...roughly west. Much more southerly, of course, if I had been
writing from Labrador.

At least my geography is slightly better that that of those who talk of
Canada reaching from Halifax to Vancouver.

--
Cheryl

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:55:18 AM UTC-4, Cheryl wrote:
> On 2013-07-24 12:54 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:37:39 PM UTC-4, Cheryl wrote:
> >> On 7/23/2013 7:54 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:49:40 PM UTC-4, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> >>>> * Cheryl:
> >>>>> On 7/23/2013 6:39 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>
> >>>>>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>
>
> >>>>> It says sook means a cow or sheep in Newfoundland. It may have, at some
> >>>>> time and in some places - not that long ago there were many dialects
> >>>>> here, and they could vary from one outport to the next. But I have never
> >>>>> in my life heard is used or used it myself to refer to a cow or a sheep.
> >>>>> I checked the Dictionary of Newfoundland English, and that supports
> >>>>> Wiktionary, but also includes its use to describe a person. That's the
> >>>>> only meaning I ever knew.
>
> >>>> Then maybe that entry should be marked "obsolete".
>
> >>>>> I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
> >>>>> site:
>
> >>>>> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html
> >>>> <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/azindex/pages/4447.html>
>
> >>> But it's simply copied from an earlier source, 1968 DILLON -- does the site include a key to the bibliographic abbreviations, or do you need to go to the print original to find out how legitimate that entry is?
>
> >> Yes, the bibliography is on the same site:
>
> >> 1968 DILLON = Virginia M. Dillon,'The Anglo-Irish Element in the Speech
> >> of the Southern Shore of Newfoundland' (St John's: Memorial Universit

> >> M.A. Thesis, 1968)
>
> > That doesn't help much with the putative Scots or Scottish (or Gaelic?)
> > background!
>
> I was just pointing out that more information was available, not that it
> was comprehensive or useful unless you look up the thesis, which is
> surely available in the local university library. It's probably not
> online, though.

Well, no, by definition theses are unpublished; normally they're reworked into
a first book, or a major journal article. That this didn't happen here suggests
a possible dearth of reliability.

(And given the topic, if there are paper copies around, they're more likely to
be in a library near you than elsewhere.)

> If she studied the people of the southern shore of Newfoundland, I'm
> willing to bet she didn't encounter any Scots and certainly encountered
> none who spoke Gaelic. And I'm not basing this on her title or on having
> dug up a copy of the thesis, but on what I know of the settlement
> patterns of the area.

So she would be _excluding_ the putative Scottish origin that otherwise fits
the worldwide migration pattern.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:24:48 AM UTC-4, Cheryl wrote:
> On 2013-07-24 11:43 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> > Cheryl Perkins:

> >> There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the
> >> aptly-named Nova Scotia)...
>
> > Southwest! And that's if you don't count Labrador.
>
> Well...roughly west. Much more southerly, of course, if I had been
> writing from Labrador.
>
> At least my geography is slightly better that that of those who talk of
> Canada reaching from Halifax to Vancouver.

Well...it pretty much did until youse guys muscled in in 1949 ...

[Eddie Powalski]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:27:44 -0700, <name removed> wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>

Just a suggestion to those who excessively quote ...

When the quoted information is so deep that one has to scroll
just to read the first line of the response, most people (including
yours truly), simply delete the post, unread.

Experience has shown there is little loss in doing so.

The assumption (often true) is that if the poster can't take the
effort to snip, then they probably haven't given any effort to the
response either.

[Cheryl]

Oh, it's certainly in the local university library and probably also in
some office or storeroom in whichever department granted her the MA,
unless the local practice was vastly different back in 1968.

OK, I checked. I don't know if the link will work outside, but someone
has scanned a lot of these theses, including this one, and put them online.

http://collections.mun.ca/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=%2Ftheses&CISOPTR=239634&REC=0&CISOBOX=Scottish

http://tinyurl.com/n3qgd9m

>> If she studied the people of the southern shore of Newfoundland, I'm
>> willing to bet she didn't encounter any Scots and certainly encountered
>> none who spoke Gaelic. And I'm not basing this on her title or on having
>> dug up a copy of the thesis, but on what I know of the settlement
>> patterns of the area.
>
> So she would be _excluding_ the putative Scottish origin that otherwise fits
> the worldwide migration pattern.
>

A quick search reveals a mention of 2 Scots-born immigrants at some
point, and a passing coment on the influence of Scottish speech on that
of Ulster.

--
Cheryl

[Mark Brader]

Cheryl Perkins:
>>> That would fit with "sook" surviving in Newfoundland...
>>>
>>> There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the
>>> aptly-named Nova Scotia)...

Mark Brader:

>> Southwest! And that's if you don't count Labrador.

Cheryl Perkins:
> Well...roughly west.

No, southwest!

> ...

> At least my geography is slightly better that that of those who talk of
> Canada reaching from Halifax to Vancouver.

Are you suggesting that places without passenger train service should
actually count?
--
Mark Brader There are people on that train!
Toronto Sure, they're Canadians, but they're still people!
m...@vex.net -- Paul Gross, "Due South"

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Cheryl]

On 2013-07-24 12:57 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Cheryl Perkins:
>>>> That would fit with "sook" surviving in Newfoundland...
>>>>
>>>> There was a lot of Scottish immigration to the next province west (the
>>>> aptly-named Nova Scotia)...
>
> Mark Brader:
>>> Southwest! And that's if you don't count Labrador.
>
> Cheryl Perkins:
>> Well...roughly west.
>
> No, southwest!
>
>> ...
>> At least my geography is slightly better that that of those who talk of
>> Canada reaching from Halifax to Vancouver.
>
> Are you suggesting that places without passenger train service should
> actually count?
>

When they finally took away our train, we were assured that the
replacement bus service was equivalent and not a violation of the Terms
of Union! Quite possibly that is still the case, even though CN managed
to sell the bus service to a private company since then.

--
Cheryl

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:41:21 AM UTC-4, Eddie Powalski wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:27:44 -0700, <name removed> wrote:

[the indents indicate that it was Oliver Cromm]

>
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>
>
> Just a suggestion to those who excessively quote ...
>
> When the quoted information is so deep that one has to scroll
> just to read the first line of the response, most people (including
> yours truly), simply delete the post, unread.
>
> Experience has shown there is little loss in doing so.
>
> The assumption (often true) is that if the poster can't take the
> effort to snip, then they probably haven't given any effort to the
> response either.

(New) Google Groups is your friend. It hides everything above the first new
line, until you click to see it.

Malicious snipping is worse than malicious quoting.

[Leslie Danks]

Has the butter in your mouth melted yet?

--
Les (BrE)
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dime.

[Mike L]

Not to mention the schwa tendency, now moving up the social ladder
with the decline of rounding.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

It certainly does - or used to - in the case of Sukey=Susan. "Polly,
put the kettle on ... Sukey, take it off again..." See also "Chuck",
"Jack"/"Jock"/"Jockey", and perhaps others.

--
Mike.

[Jack Campin]

>>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>>>> got it from.
>>> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>> In Scots it's usually long, like "spook", but I think I've heard
>> the short one occasionally too.
> Would those who rhyme it with "spook" also use the long vowel in "book"?

Not commonly (though the old Scots spelling "buik" does seem to indicate
a long "oo" of sorts).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[R H Draney]

Cheryl filted:

>
>On 2013-07-24 12:57 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
>> Cheryl Perkins:

>>> At least my geography is slightly better that that of those who talk of
>>> Canada reaching from Halifax to Vancouver.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that places without passenger train service should
>> actually count?
>>
>
>When they finally took away our train, we were assured that the
>replacement bus service was equivalent and not a violation of the Terms
>of Union! Quite possibly that is still the case, even though CN managed
>to sell the bus service to a private company since then.

Do they serve meals on the bus?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[annily]

On 25.07.13 00:11, Eddie Powalski wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:27:44 -0700, <name removed> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>
> Just a suggestion to those who excessively quote ...
>
> When the quoted information is so deep that one has to scroll
> just to read the first line of the response, most people (including
> yours truly), simply delete the post, unread.
>

I don't. It's very easy to scroll with a mouse wheel.


--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia

[Cheryl]

I don't know because I haven't been on one in many years, and in fact
the last time I lived in a rural area and needed public transportation,
the place wasn't served by either the CN bus or its successor. A local
man had some minibuses on which you could travel between your home and a
destination in the capital city, assuming you liked the scenic route
(there was no bus depot or station, so all passengers were picked up and
dropped off at their homes or wherever else they specified) and you
weren't too particular about when you wanted to travel since there was
only one trip either way each day. They definitely didn't serve meals,
and neither did the CN buses when I took them. I do vividly remember
that each time the university and other post-secondary institutions
opened or closed, it seemed to catch CN by surprise and they never had
enough buses in the right place, so you often had to wait hours for them
to bring some in. Once I had to travel over 400 km on the only vehicle
they could find, a yellow school bus that didn't appear to have any
springs, or whatever it is that stops you from bouncing up and down too
much, and with all the luggage piled on the back seats nearly to the
roof and threatening to fall over.

--
Cheryl

[John Briggs]

On 23/07/2013 23:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:58:54 PM UTC-4, R H Draney wrote:
>
>> Now do one with "station{a|e}ry"....r
>
> StationEry is papEr, stationAry is stAnding still.

Except that stationery is sold by a stationer, who was one
(stationarius) who had a stationary stall (rather than a barrow) in a
market...
--
John Briggs

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/07/13 9:37 AM, annily wrote:

> On 24.07.13 09:18, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>> Usually "big sook" in Scots, which I guess is where the Aussies
>>>> got it from.
>>> So does no one know whether it's a "lohg oo" or a "short oo"?
>>
>> In Scots it's usually long, like "spook", but I think I've heard
>> the short one occasionally too.
>>
>

> It's always the short sound in Australia.
>
>

Then again, the short sound in Britain seems to be moving towards [V] or
some other central open vowel.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

I've certainly been on a plane (in Australia) where the sole pilot got
out of his seat, went to the back of the plane and emerged with a couple
of large Thermos flasks, some milk, cups and some biscuits (AmE
cookies), which he proceeded to pass round.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

I didn't know how to spell it. Perhaps "Ooh. Er" might be better.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

As in the "Polly put the kettle on rhyme", Sukey was at one time a
typical name for a female servant. S>K seems strange, but no stranger
than Robert>Robin/Hobbin/Dobbin/Nobbin or Margaret>Peggy or Mary>Polly
or Caroline>Kaz.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

On 24/07/13 5:49 PM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:25:42 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>
>> On 23/07/13 10:18 AM, Alex wrote:
>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>
>>
>> I tracked that down to a mainly west country English dialect where
>> "sookie calf" is a calf still at teat. I suppose a sook is close to a wuss.
>

> The OED says:
>
> sook, n.3 and int.
>
> Etymology: Probably < suck v.: see Eng. Dial. Dict.
> Sc. and U.S. dial.
>
> A. n.3
> A familiar name for a cow; in Scotland (rare) a calf.
>
> 1850 L. H. Garrard Wah-to-Yah xii. 178 The..cows looked quite
> different from the patient, chewing ‘Suke’ of the American farmer.
>
> B. int.
>
> A call used to summon or drive cattle (in Scotland, generally
> calves); freq. in sook cow.
>
> 1867 G. W. Harris Sut Lovingood 24 Yu mout jis' es well
> say..Suke cow tu a gal.
> 1880 W. H. Patterson Gloss. Words Antrim & Down 101 Suck! Suck!
> a call to a calf.
> 1893 H. A. Shands Some Peculiarities of Speech in Mississippi 76
> Suke (sûk), the commonly used word for calling cows. The word cow
> is sometimes added to it, so as to make sukow (sûkau), the u being
> long drawn out in the pronunciation.
> 1897 Amer. Anthropologist 10 98 In Virginia and Alabama it [sc.
> the call to a cow] becomes sookow, sookow.
> 1906 H. Pittman Belle of Bluegrass Country xii. 176 ‘Sook Cow,
> Sook Cow,’ called the milker.
> 1961 Amer. Speech 36 266 [The expression] sook boss..is an
> obvious combination of Midland sook! and Northern boss!, both
> calls to cows in pasture.
> 1978 A. Fenton Northern Isles liii. 438 Orkney call words to
> calves were peed.., and ‘sook! sook!’ or ‘sucko! sucko!’ (from
> ‘suck’).
>

I heard "sookie calf" WIWAL in the Midlands of England. Seems to me the
OED has found Scottish and American sources and looked no farther.

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter T. Daniels]

That was a long time ago and no longer applies.

It may have started out as an artificial distinction, but it caught on.

[Richard Bollard]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 19:29:13 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:09:06 -0700, Skitt wrote:
>
>>> The inference I intimated wasn't complementary!
>>>
>> I think, you meant "complimentary".
>
>Thanks! Much appreciated admonition!
>
>In my ignorance, I had not even realized, until the moment
>you pointed it out, that these are two very different words:
> compliment = flattering
> complement = completing
>
>I compliment you for the complimentary correction, which
>complements the high level of expertise of this newsgroup.

Qantas had a sign offering "complimentary headphones". I gather if you
put them on, you would hear a voice praising your hair style or
something.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.

[Richard Bollard]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:57:30 +0930, annily <ann...@annily.invalid>
wrote:

>On 23.07.13 16:53, annily wrote:

>> On 23.07.13 11:48, Alex wrote:
>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>
>>

>> A sook is a cry-baby.
>>
>
>Here's the full entry from the Macquarie Dictionary:
>
>-------
>sook
>/sook/
>noun
>1. Also, sookie.
>a poddy calf.
>2. (usually with children)a timid, shy, cowardly person; a cry-baby:*
>The teacher watched him walk away and thought, hating himself for it:
>cry-baby, sook, bellowing big calf of a boy. -- GARRY DISHER, 1986
>
>
>[cf. 19thC British slang sock an overgrown baby, and British dialect
>sokerel an unweaned child; ? reflexes of Old English sucan to suck]
>sooky adjective
>------

You can also "chuck a sook".

[annily]

Do you have a problem with "complimentary" meaning "free", or are you
just being funny?

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 04:17:36 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <ksop2h$djn$5...@dont-email.me>

> Eddie Powalski <Ed...@example.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:27:44 -0700, <name removed> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>
>> Just a suggestion to those who excessively quote ...
>
>> When the quoted information is so deep that one has to scroll
>> just to read the first line of the response, most people (including
>> yours truly), simply delete the post, unread.
>

>That may be true in most groups. It doesn't seem to be the case here.
>
>I've seen quote level more than 80 deep.

If I'm in a hurry, and I haven't come to a reply after pressing PgDn 3-4
times, I usually skip to the next message.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:28:11 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
wrote:

>On 23/07/13 6:09 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 06:50:07 -0230, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> wrote:

>>
>>> On 7/22/2013 11:48 PM, Alex wrote:
>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>>
>>>

>>> Interesting! It's a local term here (Newfoundland, Canada) meaning
>>> someone who's sulking unreasonably about something, or perhaps whining
>>> about having to do something.
>>
>> Is that why she took the kettle off again?
>>
>>
>
>Wasn't that Poddy?

Not in the version I know.

[Odysseus]

In article <b58an3...@mid.individual.net>, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca>
wrote:

<snip>

> I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
> site:
>
> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html

"*link* n also *lynx* _DC_ ~ (1896-) for sense 1.
  1 Lynx (_Lynx canadensis_).
  1964 _Evening Telegram_ 28 Oct, p. 5 There is no such thing as a
lynx, unless there are two. A single one is a 'link.' [...]"

Anyway, you can get a link to a particular entry from the page for that
letter -- in this case
<http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/azindex/s.html> -- or from a
search result. "Sook" is at
<http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/azindex/pages/4447.html> & seq.

--
Odysseus

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:09:12 +0800, Robert Bannister

There may be no attested sources recording use elsewhere.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[THE COLONEL]

"Alex" <Al...@email.invalid> wrote in message news:kskp4r$18a$2...@solani.org...

> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>

Well, son, it's painfully obvious yer a tard.

[Oliver Cromm]

There's lots of examples online even for the "ooher" spelling,
although more for "ooh er" or "ooh-er". Whatever the spelling,
it's obviously an item, not just two random sounds. Also "Ooh er
missus" seems to be special. I wasn't aware of this, I have no
clear image of how it sounds or its connotations, and dictionaries
don't help. A bit of deeper googling - and ignoring distractions
like "Vee-feel ooher ist es, bih-tay?" - points to Frankie Howerd
and "Carry On". Would NAmE speakers understand this?

--
Bill Gates working as a waiter:
- Waiter, there's a fly in my soup
- Try again, maybe it won't be there this time

[Mike L]

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:44:59 -0400, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Robert Bannister:
>
>> On 24/07/13 8:35 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>>> * Robert Bannister:
>>>
>>>> On 24/07/13 5:25 AM, Cheryl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html
>>>>
>>>> Ooher. I tried using "Search" and got a page of code.
>>>
>>> Yeah, that is pretty bad. I found my link, by the way, by klicking
>>> on S, looking for "sook" and then copying the link from there.
>>>
>>> "Ooher" was new to me, and only Urban Dictionary lists it of all
>>> the dictionaries at onelook.com. Is that regional or a bit of new
>>> International Internet English?
>>>
>>
>> I didn't know how to spell it. Perhaps "Ooh. Er" might be better.
>
>There's lots of examples online even for the "ooher" spelling,
>although more for "ooh er" or "ooh-er". Whatever the spelling,
>it's obviously an item, not just two random sounds. Also "Ooh er
>missus" seems to be special. I wasn't aware of this, I have no
>clear image of how it sounds or its connotations, and dictionaries
>don't help. A bit of deeper googling - and ignoring distractions
>like "Vee-feel ooher ist es, bih-tay?" - points to Frankie Howerd
>and "Carry On". Would NAmE speakers understand this?

The usual spelling is, I think, "oo-er".

--
Mike.

[Robin Bignall]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:35:05 -0400, Oliver Cromm

<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Robert Bannister:
>

>> On 24/07/13 5:25 AM, Cheryl wrote:

>>> On 7/23/2013 6:39 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>>>> * Mac:

>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 02:18:04 +0000 (UTC), Alex <Al...@email.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking the American English dialect, I had never heard
>>>>>> of the word "sook", until, today, my Aussie friend chastised
>>>>>> me, saying, in effect, "stop being a sook!".
>>>>>

>>>>> Speaking -an- American English dialect - well, several, but me
>>>>> cradle-tongue is New Englandish, influenced both by Boston Irish and
>>>>> by Yankee- I have heard the word well before today. It's used in
>>>>> some parts of Canuckistan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony "They don't call it Nova Scotia for nothing" McCafferty
>>>>
>>>> Wiktionary, which has quite a comprehensive article on "sook",
>>>> gives the meaning in question as a slang expression from
>>>> Australia, Atlantic Canada and New Zealand. An odd collection
>>>> without adding Scottish as the likely source.
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sook>
>>>>
>>> It says sook means a cow or sheep in Newfoundland. It may have, at some
>>> time and in some places - not that long ago there were many dialects
>>> here, and they could vary from one outport to the next. But I have never
>>> in my life heard is used or used it myself to refer to a cow or a sheep.
>>> I checked the Dictionary of Newfoundland English, and that supports
>>> Wiktionary, but also includes its use to describe a person. That's the
>>> only meaning I ever knew.
>>>

>>> I can't figure out how to give a link to the exact pages, but here's the
>>> site:
>>>

>>> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html
>>
>> Ooher. I tried using "Search" and got a page of code.
>
>Yeah, that is pretty bad. I found my link, by the way, by klicking
>on S, looking for "sook" and then copying the link from there.
>
>"Ooher" was new to me, and only Urban Dictionary lists it of all
>the dictionaries at onelook.com. Is that regional or a bit of new
>International Internet English?

"Oo-er missus" was, as you've found, one of Franky Howerd's
catch-phrases 60 or more years ago. I think he might have said it after
something risque.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robert Bannister]

Are you fishing for a compliment?
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Did he ever say anything non-risqué? I'm still trying to work out the
dirty meaning of "Chilly".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

After posting, I realised that they only note written sources. So my
hearing the phrase could not count.

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:44:59 PM UTC-4, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Robert Bannister:
> > On 24/07/13 8:35 PM, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> >> * Robert Bannister:
> >>> On 24/07/13 5:25 AM, Cheryl wrote:
>
> >>>> http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html
>
> >>> Ooher. I tried using "Search" and got a page of code.
>
> >> Yeah, that is pretty bad. I found my link, by the way, by klicking
> >> on S, looking for "sook" and then copying the link from there.
>
> >> "Ooher" was new to me, and only Urban Dictionary lists it of all
> >> the dictionaries at onelook.com. Is that regional or a bit of new
> >> International Internet English?
>
> > I didn't know how to spell it. Perhaps "Ooh. Er" might be better.
>
> There's lots of examples online even for the "ooher" spelling,
> although more for "ooh er" or "ooh-er". Whatever the spelling,
> it's obviously an item, not just two random sounds. Also "Ooh er
> missus" seems to be special. I wasn't aware of this, I have no
> clear image of how it sounds or its connotations, and dictionaries
> don't help. A bit of deeper googling - and ignoring distraction

> like "Vee-feel ooher ist es, bih-tay?" - points to Frankie Howerd
> and "Carry On". Would NAmE speakers understand this?

No. I've been hearing about the "Carry On" movies for years, but I have never
seen one on offer anywhere.

[Nick Spalding]

Mike L wrote, in <nva3v8dgq6d2hjdhv...@4ax.com>
on Thu, 25 Jul 2013 23:55:16 +0100:

Missus.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Oliver Cromm]

* Peter T. Daniels:

So I watched a good part of one on Youtube yesterday. I didn't
meet "Ms. Oo-er", though. Maybe I have to repeat some scenes and
pay more attention.

It's not bad, but dated, I had to give it some leeway while
watching. Pretty slow-paced with today's eyes, which isn't good
for humor, and not much is risqué these days, of course.

--
Who would know aught of art must learn and then take his ease.

[Mike L]

You have to be in the mood: it's a peculiarly British harmless
unsophisticated vulgarity that seems to bridge social chasms. There's
even something almost innocent about the dirty laughs.

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

They are very dated these days. I doubt I could watch one now, but I
used to love them as a teenager.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robin Bignall]

Particularly that of Sid James, who practised that laugh on Tony Hancock
in "'ancock's 'alf 'our".