What do these "French" words mean in (real) English? -- Le footing -- Un camping -- Des baskets

[henh...@gmail.com]

What do these "French" words mean in (real) English?

Le footing

Un camping

Des baskets

Un smoking

Un break

Le catch

Un planning

Un flipper

[bert]

"Des baskets" is the French word for "trainers" (the shoes). Google translate has caught up with that - why not try it on the others?

[lar3ryca]

Egads! The French language police must be suffering l'apoplexie.

--
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Albert Einstein

[Silvano]

henh...@gmail.com hat am 11.04.2023 um 16:50 geschrieben:

Native English speakers can add
il footing
il camping
lo smoking
il catch
il flipper
to the list in my previous posting "The strange destiny of some English
words in Italian".

Is it just a coincidence or did my posting prompt you to propose your
list of "French" words?
I also wonder if those pseudoanglicisms have the same meaning in French
and Italian.

[bruce bowser]

Le footing = Jogging

Un camping = A camping

Des baskets = trainers

Un smoking = tuxedo

Un break = a break

Le catch = the catch

Un planning = a schedule ('shed jewel' in BrE, and 'ske jewel' in AmE)

Un flipper = pinball machine

Want more ?

Un playing = a game

Un eating = a restaurant

[henh...@gmail.com]

Un break (in French) and il break (in Italian) mean different things, apparently.



i 'd never heard of a [Shooting brake] until today.



[Le footing] ... i wonder if jokesters are constantly (thinking of) punning on [Le footing] and the verb [foutre].

Va te faire foutre !

[Bebercito]

Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> Le footing = Jogging
>
> Un camping = A camping

Le camping = camping - for the activity
Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place

>
> Des baskets = trainers
>
> Un smoking = tuxedo
>
> Un break = a break

"Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
car (US "station wagon").

>
> Le catch = the catch

No, it means "wrestling".

>
> Un planning = a schedule ('shed jewel' in BrE, and 'ske jewel' in AmE)
>
> Un flipper = pinball machine
>
> Want more ?
>
> Un playing = a game

? Never heard that.

>
> Un eating = a restaurant

Ditto.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 2:15:01 PM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > Le footing = Jogging
> >
> > Un camping = A camping
> Le camping = camping - for the activity
> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> >
> > Des baskets = trainers
> >
> > Un smoking = tuxedo
> >
> > Un break = a break
> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> car (US "station wagon").

When it means a break, that's apparently a break of serve in tennis, or a
short rest, according to Wordreference. Correct?

> > Le catch = the catch

> No, it means "wrestling".
> >
> > Un planning = a schedule ('shed jewel' in BrE, and 'ske jewel' in AmE)
> >
> > Un flipper = pinball machine
> >
> > Want more ?
> >
> > Un playing = a game

> ? Never heard that.
> >
> > Un eating = a restaurant

> Ditto.

Bowser was joking.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Bebercito]

Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:19:14 UTC+2, Jerry Friedman a écrit :
> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 2:15:01 PM UTC-6, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > > Le footing = Jogging
> > >
> > > Un camping = A camping
> > Le camping = camping - for the activity
> > Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> > >
> > > Des baskets = trainers
> > >
> > > Un smoking = tuxedo
> > >
> > > Un break = a break
> > "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> > car (US "station wagon").
> When it means a break, that's apparently a break of serve in tennis, or a
> short rest, according to Wordreference. Correct?

Yes, but not only - e.g. "On fait un break ?" = "Shall we have a break?"

> > > Le catch = the catch
>
> > No, it means "wrestling".
> > >
> > > Un planning = a schedule ('shed jewel' in BrE, and 'ske jewel' in AmE)
> > >
> > > Un flipper = pinball machine
> > >
> > > Want more ?
> > >
> > > Un playing = a game
>
> > ? Never heard that.
> > >
> > > Un eating = a restaurant
>
> > Ditto.
> Bowser was joking.

Hard to tell given some other, "serious" entries in his list.

>
> --
> Jerry Friedman

[henh...@gmail.com]

why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies the activity)


is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?

is it just coincidence that all these are typically male activities ?

On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 1:15:01 PM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > Le footing = Jogging
> >
> > Un camping = A camping
> Le camping = camping - for the activity
> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> >

> > Des baskets = trainers ------------ or Tennis shoes (?)

> >
> > Un smoking = tuxedo
> >
> > Un break = a break
> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate car (US "station wagon").

> >
> > Le catch = the catch
> No, it means "wrestling".
> >
> > Un planning = a schedule ('shed jewel' in BrE, and 'ske jewel' in AmE)
> >
> > Un flipper = pinball machine
> >

Want more ? ------------ Yes!

[Bebercito]

Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies the activity)
>
>
> is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?

No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.

>
> is it just coincidence that all these are typically male activities ?

Yes, "le shopping", for instance, is generally said to be more of a feminine
activity.

[J. J. Lodder]

Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:

> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > Le footing = Jogging
> >
> > Un camping = A camping
>
> Le camping = camping - for the activity
> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
>
> >
> > Des baskets = trainers
> >
> > Un smoking = tuxedo
> >
> > Un break = a break
>
> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> car (US "station wagon").

For some reason only known to marketing Peugeot and Citroen
have given up on building 'break' versions.

Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.

Jan

PS They did have a memorable commercial for it, long ago.
A furtive assembly robot would spray the 'Picasso' signature
on the bare metal, like a naughty boy,
only to cover it up again when in danger of being found out
by an inspector who is coming up from behind his back.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 11-Apr-23 21:14, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :

>> Un break = a break
>
> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> car (US "station wagon").
>

(Older) BrE "Shooting Brake".

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) wrote:

>Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
>> > Le footing = Jogging
>> >
>> > Un camping = A camping
>>
>> Le camping = camping - for the activity
>> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
>>
>> >
>> > Des baskets = trainers
>> >
>> > Un smoking = tuxedo
>> >
>> > Un break = a break
>>
>> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
>> car (US "station wagon").
>
>For some reason only known to marketing Peugeot and Citroen
>have given up on building 'break' versions.
>
>Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
>and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
>No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
>
>Jan
>

Bebercito's statement that a "Un break..refers to (a) US station
wagon" and your statement that Peugeot SW version are more SUV-like
don't convey much meaning to me.

No US automobile manufacturer has offered a vehicle designated as a
"station wagon" since about 1996. Surely "break" doesn't describe
only cars at least quarter of a century old.

"SUV" - Sport Utility Vehicle - was originally the designation of
4-wheel drive passenger vehicle built on a truck frame, but most are
now unibodies with 4-wheel drive an optional feature.

There is very little practical difference between a "station wagon"
and an SUV. Both are 5-door vehicles with storage capacity or a third
seat in the back. The profiles are different, but only because
automobile designers have rounded-off the body designs. I don't know
of a US "station wagon" that had 4-wheel drive, though.

The Peugot SW, as best I can tell, is a SUV even though the SW stands
for "station wagon". I don't know what "more SUV-like" means.

The terms "estate wagon/station wagon" both mean the vehicle has a
fifth door in the back with storage space, but all SUVs have that
configuration. The differences - model to model - are how much space
and which way the door opens.








--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Snidely]

Bebercito used thar keyboard to writen:

> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :

>> Un break = a break
>
> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> car (US "station wagon").

Does this usage, despite its spelling, come from the British vehicle
vocabulary?

<URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_brake>

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

[Snidely]

Sam Plusnet presented the following explanation :

Ah, pipped to the post again.

-d

[Snidely]

On Tuesday or thereabouts, TonyCooper declared ...

You left off Hatchback and Crossover, Tony. Shame on you.

To me, a station wagon is recognized by being a lower roofline, about
te same level as a sedan, while being bigger than a hatchback. The
orignal Mini and the original US edition Honda Civic were hatchbacks;
the Mazda 3 and the new Mini are modern hatchbacks.

Crossovers are the next size up, often similar in size and weight to
sedans, but with a tailgate and a taller roofline. Something like the
Nissan Rogue or Toyota RAV4. Probably includes Ford Edge and Ford
Escape. Definitely unibody, and for the people who don't want to admit
that a minivan would be a good choice, but who also want to avoid the
Conspicuous Excess of an SUV.

The Toyota 4Runner and the Ford Explorer are the small SUVs, the
Chevrolet Suburban, Cadillac Escalade, and Ford Expedition are closer
to the Big End. The Jeep Cherokee of the '90s was at the small end,
but the current Grand Cherokee is knocking on the big end. Land Rovers
seem to be mostly in this class. Most of these are truck frame
vehicles still, AFAICT, but the body is essentially built the same was
unibody vehicles.

Hummers are something else.

Most pickups these days are Quad Cab, Crew Cab, or some other marketing
term for a 4 door vehicle with at least a 4 ft open bed. Two door and
two door extended cabs are getting rarer, as are "full length" beds.
The original Toyota (HiLux in some countries) and Datsun pickups and
the Ford Ranger and the Chevy S10 are dwarfed by today's versions,
while the Tundra, Silverado, and F150 dwarf the full-size pickups of
the '70s.

Sorry, Gents, I usually don't find out what the European name for these
critters are unless it happens to be the same as the US name. And
everything subject to the whims of the Marketing Department.

I probably should look up the USDOT/EPA definitions of the categories,
which have implications for fleet mix and fuel mileage capabilities.
But the above spew seems useful as a rule of thumb around here.

/dps


--
"First thing in the morning, before I have coffee, I read the obits, If
I'm not in it, I'll have breakfast." -- Carl Reiner, to CBS News in
2015.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

I'm fairly sure that both Peugeot and Citroen haven't sold their cars
in North America for quite a few years. One dropped out of the NA
market in the 1970s and the other in the '80s, a not very thorough
search indicates.

bill

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/04/23 06:14, Bebercito wrote:

> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an
> estate car (US "station wagon").

In my youth that was sometimes called a shaggin' wagon.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Ruud Harmsen]

Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) scribeva:

>Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
>and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
>No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.

Single words cannot be copyrighted.

I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.

[J. J. Lodder]

TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> >> > Le footing = Jogging
> >> >
> >> > Un camping = A camping
> >>
> >> Le camping = camping - for the activity
> >> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Des baskets = trainers
> >> >
> >> > Un smoking = tuxedo
> >> >
> >> > Un break = a break
> >>
> >> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> >> car (US "station wagon").
> >
> >For some reason only known to marketing Peugeot and Citroen
> >have given up on building 'break' versions.
> >
> >Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
> >and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
> >No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
> >
> >Jan
> >
>
> Bebercito's statement that a "Un break..refers to (a) US station
> wagon" and your statement that Peugeot SW version are more SUV-like
> don't convey much meaning to me.

Yes, a 'break' is a 'station wagon'.
Some models exist in both versions,
with the station having somewhat more 'luxury' than the break.
A classic example of the style at its best was the Peugeot 405 break.

> No US automobile manufacturer has offered a vehicle designated as a
> "station wagon" since about 1996. Surely "break" doesn't describe
> only cars at least quarter of a century old.
>
> "SUV" - Sport Utility Vehicle - was originally the designation of
> 4-wheel drive passenger vehicle built on a truck frame, but most are
> now unibodies with 4-wheel drive an optional feature.

True SUVs have never been popular in Europe.
Too big, to noisy, too much fuel consumption.
So European manufacturers invented the 'crossover' compromise.
(it looks SUVish, but is a rather ordinary car, really)

> There is very little practical difference between a "station wagon"
> and an SUV. Both are 5-door vehicles with storage capacity or a third
> seat in the back. The profiles are different, but only because
> automobile designers have rounded-off the body designs. I don't know
> of a US "station wagon" that had 4-wheel drive, though.
>
> The Peugot SW, as best I can tell, is a SUV even though the SW stands
> for "station wagon". I don't know what "more SUV-like" means.

In Europe some of the AWD Volvos are typical 4WD station wagons.

> The terms "estate wagon/station wagon" both mean the vehicle has a
> fifth door in the back with storage space, but all SUVs have that
> configuration. The differences - model to model - are how much space
> and which way the door opens.

Yes, the classic break/stationwagon has gone nearly extinct.

Jan

And for your everpresent question: yes, there is a tiny increase
in Europe in what you call a pick-up.
Most have permanently covered rears though.
(its raining all the time...)

[J. J. Lodder]

bil...@shaw.ca <bil...@shaw.ca> wrote:

Right. They never succeeded in setting up practical service networks
like they have in Western Europe.

Jan

[bruce bowser]

Only if the English French dictionary is.

[HVS]

On 12 Apr 2023, Peter Moylan wrote

> On 12/04/23 06:14, Bebercito wrote:
>
>> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an
>> estate car (US "station wagon").
>
> In my youth that was sometimes called a shaggin' wagon.

In the 1970s, I had a friend who adapted a van for camping (just a van-
with-a-bed, rather than an RV). While people called it his "shaggin'
wagon", he preferred the more plain-spoken term of his "fuck truck".

--
Cheers, Harvey

[HVS]

On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote

Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
trademarkable.

--
Cheers, Harvey

[Jerry Friedman]

This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
French law protects, according to Wikipedia. But I don't know what
Citroën's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?

--
Jerry Friedman

[TonyCooper]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:34:58 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:42:25?AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>> On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote
>> > Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> > Lodder) scribeva:
>> >> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
>> >> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
>> >> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
>> >
>> > Single words cannot be copyrighted.
>> >
>> > I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
>> > isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.
>
>> Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
>> he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
>> anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
>> trademarkable.
>
>This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
>French law protects, according to Wikipedia. But I don't know what

>Citroėn's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?

In this Citroėn TV ad, Picasso-style art and his signature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgpM6NZN2YY

[bruce bowser]

There is the Chrysler 300C Series (since 2005), the 2014 Cadillac CTS-V and the 2002 Ford Focus SE Wagon 4D.

[Bebercito]

Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 23:35:13 UTC+2, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> > > Le footing = Jogging
> > >
> > > Un camping = A camping
> >
> > Le camping = camping - for the activity
> > Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> >
> > >
> > > Des baskets = trainers
> > >
> > > Un smoking = tuxedo
> > >
> > > Un break = a break
> >
> > "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> > car (US "station wagon").
> For some reason only known to marketing Peugeot and Citroen
> have given up on building 'break' versions.
>
> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.

A bunch, apparently. This says €3 million for 2007 only:

https://www.autocult.fr/2015/picasso-periode-argent-grace-a-citroen/
(Article in French, alas.)

[TonyCooper]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:50:18 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
<bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chrysler's pick for the series name is 300 (for horsepower) and C to
indicate that it is the third model of the series. The model, in this
case, is the engine. It is a sedan.

>the 2014 Cadillac CTS-V

A 4-door sedan.

>and the 2002 Ford Focus SE Wagon 4D.

That one could be called a "station wagon", but Ford didn't.

[Bebercito]

Le mercredi 12 avril 2023 à 00:21:44 UTC+2, TonyCooper a écrit :
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 18:05:45 UTC+2, bruce bowser a écrit :
> >> > Le footing = Jogging
> >> >
> >> > Un camping = A camping
> >>
> >> Le camping = camping - for the activity
> >> Un camping = a camp(ing) site (US "campground") - for the place
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Des baskets = trainers
> >> >
> >> > Un smoking = tuxedo
> >> >
> >> > Un break = a break
> >>
> >> "Un break" can indeed mean "a break", but it most often refers to an estate
> >> car (US "station wagon").
> >
> >For some reason only known to marketing Peugeot and Citroen
> >have given up on building 'break' versions.
> >
> >Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
> >and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
> >No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
> >
> >Jan
> >
> Bebercito's statement that a "Un break..refers to (a) US station
> wagon" and your statement that Peugeot SW version are more SUV-like
> don't convey much meaning to me.

Still, there's no better US-English counterpart to "un break".

>
> No US automobile manufacturer has offered a vehicle designated as a
> "station wagon" since about 1996. Surely "break" doesn't describe
> only cars at least quarter of a century old.
>
> "SUV" - Sport Utility Vehicle - was originally the designation of
> 4-wheel drive passenger vehicle built on a truck frame, but most are
> now unibodies with 4-wheel drive an optional feature.
>
> There is very little practical difference between a "station wagon"
> and an SUV. Both are 5-door vehicles with storage capacity or a third
> seat in the back. The profiles are different, but only because
> automobile designers have rounded-off the body designs. I don't know
> of a US "station wagon" that had 4-wheel drive, though.
>
> The Peugot SW, as best I can tell, is a SUV even though the SW stands
> for "station wagon". I don't know what "more SUV-like" means.

It refers to a different aspect ratio, IMO, as SWs originally are but longer
versions of existing sedans while SUVs take their cue from the original
Land Rover Range Rover, which was a genuine off-road vehicle and as
such had to have higher ground clearance and a shorter wheelbase, in the
spirit of CMVs. This is still reflected in the general appearance of current
SWs and SUVs.

[Jerry Friedman]

That certainly explains why Citroën had to pay.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Bebercito]

Or maybe, it's the other way around: as they had paid a lot, they
wanted to get their money's worth and made the reference to the
painter very explicit. (A great TV commercial that once pervasive
on French TV, BTW.)

>
> --
> Jerry Friedman

[occam]

On 11/04/2023 17:50, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-04-11 09:38, bert wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 11 April 2023 at 15:50:58 UTC+1, henh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> What do these "French" words mean in (real) English?
>>>
>>> Le footing
>>> Un camping
>>> Des baskets
>>> Un smoking
>>> Un break
>>> Le catch
>>> Un planning
>>> Un flipper
>>
>> "Des baskets" is the French word for "trainers" (the shoes).  Google
>> translate has caught up with that - why not try it on the others?
>
> Egads! The French language police must be suffering l'apoplexie.
>


Yes. They had an emergency meeting on 'le week-end' to discuss such
transgressions.

(Why they do not dispense with the hyphen in their week-end remains a
Gallic mystery. )

[J. J. Lodder]

His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
but his signature certainly is,

Jan

[1] But I guess you will be in for some troublesome lawsuits
if you would want to trademark for example a brand of'Picasso shoes'
without paying their foundation for the right to it.

[J. J. Lodder]

Bebercito <bebe...@aol.com> wrote:

> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies the
> > activity)
> >
> >
> > is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?
>
> No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.
>
> >
> > is it just coincidence that all these are typically male activities ?
>
> Yes, "le shopping", for instance, is generally said to be more of a feminine
> activity.

Especially so if shopping for 'des undies',

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Not forgetting "le vagin" (or "le con" if you want to be vulgar),
balanced, however, by "la bite".


--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:34:58 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
<jerry.fr...@gmail.com> scribeva:

>On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:42:25?AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>> On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote
>> > Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> > Lodder) scribeva:
>> >> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
>> >> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
>> >> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
>> >
>> > Single words cannot be copyrighted.
>> >
>> > I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
>> > isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.
>
>> Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
>> he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
>> anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
>> trademarkable.
>
>This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
>French law protects, according to Wikipedia.

European law, too. But in connexion with copyrights. And a single word
cannot be copyrighted. Too short to be a "work".

>But I don't know what
>Citroën's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?

--

Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

[J. J. Lodder]

TonyCooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 07:34:58 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:42:25?AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
> >> On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote
> >> > Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >> > Lodder) scribeva:
> >> >> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
> >> >> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
> >> >> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
> >> >
> >> > Single words cannot be copyrighted.
> >> >
> >> > I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
> >> > isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.
> >
> >> Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
> >> he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
> >> anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
> >> trademarkable.
> >
> >This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
> >French law protects, according to Wikipedia. But I don't know what

> >Citroën's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?
>
> In this Citroën TV ad, Picasso-style art and his signature:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgpM6NZN2YY

Yes, that is the commercial I refered to,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:42:25?AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
> > On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote
> > > Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> > > Lodder) scribeva:
> > >> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
> > >> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
> > >> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
> > >
> > > Single words cannot be copyrighted.
> > >
> > > I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
> > > isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.
>
> > Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
> > he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
> > anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
> > trademarkable.
>
> This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
> French law protects, according to Wikipedia. But I don't know what

> Citroėn's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?

His signature, which is an image, which he drew by his own hand.
Of course it can be legally protected,

Jan

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <14837fd8-e583-43d8...@googlegroups.com>,
bruce bowser <bruce2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Des baskets = trainers

Specifically, high-tops (at least that's how it used to be back when
they were the cheap option on a student's budget). As opposed to
"tennis".

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 20:17:40 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.

Lodder) scribeva:

>Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 12, 2023 at 7:42:25?AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>> > On 12 Apr 2023, Ruud Harmsen wrote
>> > > Tue, 11 Apr 2023 23:35:09 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
>> > > Lodder) scribeva:
>> > >> Peugeot has gone for the 'SW' versions, (which are more SUV-like)
>> > >> and Ciroen has gone for the inane 'Picasso' versions.
>> > >> No idea what they have paid the heirs for the rights.
>> > >
>> > > Single words cannot be copyrighted.
>> > >
>> > > I wonder if the name of a dead painter can be e Trade Mark. If it
>> > > isn't registered as such, anyone can use it.
>>
>> > Picasso never underestimated his importance, and my guess would be that
>> > he and/or his estate will have trademarked the bejabbers out of
>> > anything remotely connected to him and his work that might be
>> > trademarkable.
>>
>> This might also come under the topic of "personality rights", which
>> French law protects, according to Wikipedia. But I don't know what

>> Citroën's marketing campaign uses--Picasso's face, signature, art?

>
>His signature, which is an image, which he drew by his own hand.
>Of course it can be legally protected,

Based on what law?

[Sam Plusnet]

That one is understandable. The French don't have a word for lingerie.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Bebercito]

"Undies" actually hasn't made it into French, but the usual word is "(des)
dessous".

>
> --
> Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:

of Picasso

> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
> but his signature certainly is,
>

That surname isn't unique.
Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?

--
Sam Plusnet

[lar3ryca]

Speaking of non-rhyming limericks (in another thread)...

A young fellow with passions quite gingery
Was exploring his young sister's lingerie.
With giggles of pleasure
He plundered her treasure,
Adding incest to insult and injury.

--
Blame Saint Andreas -- it's all his fault.

[J. J. Lodder]

Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
(but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
Signing the menu with Picasso's reproduced signature
would be inviting trouble, I guess,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, of course, but I did see it sometime somewhere in some French text.
And it something that is memorable, once noticed.
I have no idea how common, or uncommon it may be.

Another curious one I noticed is 'le teapot',
but it may also have been 'la teapot', (or both)

Jan

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 12 Apr 2023 23:30:56 +0200: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) scribeva:

You guess? Why is it worthwhile posting your guesses?

[Peter Moylan]

Or for le shampooing, while her car is in le parking.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Sam Plusnet]

On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> of Picasso
>>> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
>>> but his signature certainly is,
>>>
>>
>> That surname isn't unique.
>> Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
>> Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?
>
> Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)

Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
one side)

"Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.

> Signing the menu with Picasso's reproduced signature
> would be inviting trouble, I guess,

--
Sam Plusnet

[TonyCooper]

I'll start with Jackson Pollock and chips, but suggest you avoid the
Da Vinci Cod even though cod is preferable to polock.

[TonyCooper]

And preferable to pollock.

[Bebercito]

Nonexistent, IME.

>
> Another curious one I noticed is 'le teapot',
> but it may also have been 'la teapot', (or both)

Never heard or seen either.

>
> Jan

[Dingbat]

What does Groupe Chantelle make, in French?
In English, they make lingerie, an English coinage from French linge (linen)
and a French suffix.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Back in 1974, I think it was, when I was in San Francisco, there was a
lawsuit about a very successful Italian restaurant with a name like
that of a person (but not that of the owner or anyone connected with
the restaurant). Someone whose real legal name was exactly that of the
restaurant decided to start his own restaurant in San Francisco with
the same name. He was sued, and lost. Apparently, at least in
California, you can't use your legal name as the name of your
enterprise if it has already been registered as a trademark by someone
else.

I imagine that if your name was Ronald McDonald you'd run into the same
problem. (Apparently there was a real person called Ranald MacDonald,
who taught English in Japan. However, he died in 1894, long before
McDonalds was founded.)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

near an immeuble de grand standing.

I have to admit that "a parking" has become part of my everyday English.

[Peter Moylan]

On 12/04/23 06:34, Bebercito wrote:
> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :

>> why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies
>> the activity)
>>
>> is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?
>
> No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.

Does French have any -ing words that aren't direct copies of English
words? The only one I can think of is "poing", which in my mind is an
-oing word rather than an -ing word, because of the different vowel.

[Hibou]

Le 12/04/2023 à 17:29, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-04-12 16:06:19 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

>> Bebercito wrote:
>>> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>> why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies the
>>>> activity)
>>>>
>>>> is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?
>>>
>>> No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.
>>>
>>>> is it just coincidence that all these are typically male activities ?
>>>
>>> Yes, "le shopping", for instance, is generally said to be more of a
>>> feminine
>>> activity.
>>
>> Especially so if shopping for 'des undies',
>
> Not forgetting "le vagin" (or "le con" if you want to be vulgar),
> balanced, however, by "la bite".

Just so. I was going to point out that a man's shirt is /une/ chemise, a
woman's blouse /un/ chemisier.

Grammatical gender mostly has nothing to do with sex (something that
French people are increasingly forgetting when it comes to feminising
job titles), but the rules can yield some interesting results. Classically:

Une femme et son chien traversaient la rue. /Ils/....

A woman and her dog were crossing the road. They... [masculine plural
form because "the masculine takes precedence over the feminine"].

[Peter Moylan]

On 13/04/23 17:11, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> I imagine that if your name was Ronald McDonald you'd run into the
> same problem. (Apparently there was a real person called Ranald
> MacDonald, who taught English in Japan. However, he died in 1894,
> long before McDonalds was founded.)

It's not an unusual name. My wife has ten relatives called Ranald
MacDonald, all of them dead by now. One of them was a bishop. That one
sticks in my mind because when we tracked down his grave it turned out
to be at a church that featured in the TV minisery "Monarch of the Glen".

As for fights over the name, here are a couple of cases from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_legal_cases

<quote 1>
The company waged an unsuccessful 26-year (as of 2001) legal action
against McDonald's Family Restaurant, which opened in 1956 in Fairbury,
Illinois and is run by a man whose real name is Ronald McDonald.[23] Mr.
McDonald ultimately continued to use his name on his restaurant despite
the company's objections.[24]
</quote>

<quote 2>
From the early 1960s to the mid-1980s, Norman McDonald ran a small
"Country Drive-Inn" restaurant in Philpot, Kentucky, called simply
"McDonald's Hamburgers; Country Drive-Inn", which at the time also had a
gas station and convenience store. McDonald's the restaurant chain
forced Norman to remove the arches and add the full Norman McDonald's
name to its sign so customers would not be confused into thinking the
restaurant was affiliated with the McDonald's restaurant chain.[14] The
restaurant is still open to this day (though it no longer has the gas
station).
</quote>

[J. J. Lodder]

"le teapot" site:fr and "la teapot" site:fr
bring in hundreds of French language hits,
with Le slightly prefered over La,
(not all of them genuine, but still)

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> of Picasso
> >>> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
> >>> but his signature certainly is,
> >>>
> >>
> >> That surname isn't unique.
> >> Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
> >> Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?
> >
> > Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> > (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
>
> Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
> one side)
>
> "Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.

The Chateaubriand is an obvious example, as is the Boeuf Stroganov.
The origins of Suzette are disputed. There are no doubt others.

And afaik there isn't any connection between Picasso and his sole,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes. There is "coing", quince. Also an -oing word.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

It can, in a few cases, work the other way around. "Une personne" is
femininine, and in a text about a group of 100% men any references to
"les personnes" needs a feminine adjective. (It doesn't always get one,
though).

[Peter Moylan]

On 13/04/23 19:35, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-04-13 07:57:27 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 12/04/23 06:34, Bebercito wrote:
>>> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>
>>>> why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies
>>>> the activity)
>>>>
>>>> is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?
>>>
>>> No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.
>>
>> Does French have any -ing words that aren't direct copies of English
>> words? The only one I can think of is "poing", which in my mind is an
>> -oing word rather than an -ing word, because of the different vowel.
>
> Yes. There is "coing", quince. Also an -oing word.

Thanks. And of course "shampooing" is also an -oing word, despite the
extra 'o'.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

When I first encountered "coing", possibly in the plural, I thought it
was "coings" with s pronounced, basically like a French attempt to say
"quince", but actually it is quite different.

[bruce bowser]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 4:31:51 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > >> of Picasso
> > >>> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
> > >>> but his signature certainly is,
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> That surname isn't unique.
> > >> Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
> > >> Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?
> > >
> > > Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> > > (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
> >
> > Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
> > one side)
> >
> > "Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.
>
> The Chateaubriand is an obvious example, as is the Boeuf Stroganov.
> The origins of Suzette are disputed.

I never figured out French. What is the difference between cooked steak, chateaubriand, chateaux briand, chateaux-briand, châteaux briand and London broil?
[Frans heb ik nooit begrepen. Wat is het verschil tussen gekookte biefstuk, chateaubriand, chateaux briand, chateaux-briand, châteaux briand en London broil?]

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 2:31:51 AM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:

...

> > > Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> > > (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
> >
> > Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
> > one side)
> >
> > "Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.

> The Chateaubriand is an obvious example, as is the Boeuf Stroganov.
> The origins of Suzette are disputed. There are no doubt others.

...

Chicken Tetrazzini, and if we're using a definition of "artist" broad enough
to include Chateaubriand, there's tournedos Rossini.

Wikipedia implies that it's unknown which Stroganov is the eponym
of beef Stroganoff. I didn't notice any that were artists, though some
were important patrons of art.

Apparently the original versions of Tetrazzini and Stroganoff did not
involve canned soup.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Snidely]

Thus spake J. J. Lodder:

However, dishes with "Rossini" in the name may actually be Gioachino's
creation, from the years after /William Tell/.

/dps

--
"That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is
crucial, and yet not the answer."
Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,
Stanford.,2020

[Sam Plusnet]

Steer clear of the Sexton Blake Hake.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Bebercito]

Funnily, you (inadvertently?) mentioned "vagin" as a masculine -ing word earlier
on - and, when pronounced with a (strong) Marseilles accent, the word does
sound a bit like "vaging" as pronounced elsewhere in France.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I didn't mean to imply that it was an -ing word, just as an example of
a word whose gender doesn't make much sense to the Anglo-Saxon mind.

[Bebercito]

Le jeudi 13 avril 2023 à 11:35:49 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-04-13 07:57:27 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
> > On 12/04/23 06:34, Bebercito wrote:
> >> Le mardi 11 avril 2023 à 22:29:58 UTC+2, henh...@gmail.com a écrit :
> >
> >>> why do the French say Le-footing with a THE ? (ok, [Le] signifies
> >>> the activity)
> >>>
> >>> is it just coincidence that all these are masc. nouns ?
> >>
> >> No, all -ing nouns are masculine in French.
> >
> > Does French have any -ing words that aren't direct copies of English
> > words? The only one I can think of is "poing", which in my mind is an
> > -oing word rather than an -ing word, because of the different vowel.
> Yes. There is "coing", quince. Also an -oing word.

Not forgetting the -oing word /par excellence/ i.e. "oing" (also <oint>),
which means "ointment".

[Peter Moylan]

On 13/04/23 23:43, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> Wikipedia implies that it's unknown which Stroganov is the eponym of
> beef Stroganoff. I didn't notice any that were artists, though some
> were important patrons of art.
>
> Apparently the original versions of Tetrazzini and Stroganoff did
> not involve canned soup.

It's been ages since I last made beef Stroganoff - cutting the beef
paper-thin is such a tedious job - but it would never have occurred to
me to add any sort of soup. My recipe uses only beef, mushrooms, butter,
and cream. Delicious, but hard work.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 5:59:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 13/04/23 23:43, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > Wikipedia implies that it's unknown which Stroganov is the eponym of
> > beef Stroganoff. I didn't notice any that were artists, though some
> > were important patrons of art.
> >
> > Apparently the original versions of Tetrazzini and Stroganoff did
> > not involve canned soup.

> It's been ages since I last made beef Stroganoff - cutting the beef
> paper-thin is such a tedious job - but it would never have occurred to
> me to add any sort of soup.

I admit that I've heard the version with ground beef and canned cream of
mushroom soup called "poor man's stroganoff".

> My recipe uses only beef, mushrooms, butter,
> and cream. Delicious, but hard work.

Interesting. I've had it with beef cubes or strips, but not with paper-thin
slices, and Wikipedia doesn't mention such a thing.

"Real" beef Stroganoff in the U.S. probably has onions as well as
mushrooms, and sour cream in the sauce. Neither that nor your version
is particularly Russian.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Dingbat]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 1:16:48 AM UTC-7, Hibou wrote:
> Just so. I was going to point out that a man's shirt is /une/ chemise, a
> woman's blouse /un/ chemisier.
>

Is a chemise always an overgarment rather than an undergarment?
I seem to recall reading of a slip being called a chemise, perhaps in the past.

[Peter Moylan]

Mine also has onions. I just forgot to list them.

[Dingbat]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 6:39:25 AM UTC-7, bruce bowser wrote:
> On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 4:31:51 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > >> of Picasso
> > > >>> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
> > > >>> but his signature certainly is,
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> That surname isn't unique.
> > > >> Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
> > > >> Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?
> > > >
> > > > Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> > > > (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
> > >
> > > Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
> > > one side)
> > >
> > > "Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.
> >
> > The Chateaubriand is an obvious example, as is the Boeuf Stroganov.
> > The origins of Suzette are disputed.
> I never figured out French. What is the difference between cooked steak, chateaubriand, chateaux briand, chateaux-briand, châteaux briand and London broil?
>

Dunno. French is tricky.. Try these:
picot
picote
picoté
picoteux
Picotte

[Hibou]

'Chemise' has various senses, including camisole (in the past), folder
for papers, and to label mechanical components. There's a list here,
with their fields of application (génie mécanique etc.):

<https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/resultats-de-recherche?tx_solr%5Bq%5D=chemise&tx_solr%5Bfilter%5D%5B0%5D=type_stringM%3Abdl&tx_solr%5Bfilter%5D%5B1%5D=type_stringM%3Agdt&tx_solr%5Bfilter%5D%5B2%5D=terme%3A1>

[Peter T. Daniels]

Canned (Condensed) Cream of Mushroom Soup provides the mushrooms
and cream. Butter seems a bit much. I agree with Jerry as to "paper-thin"
vs. cubes..

Campbell's makes (made?) a considerable variety of cream soups whose
principal use was in casseroles and such, rather than being reconstituted
with water (or milk) to serve alongside a half sandwich for the kid's lunch.

Was there much call for Cream of Celery Soup per se?

We've done half-sandwiches before. You could make one by cutting a
slice of bread in half diagonally and filling it with the desired filling.

[Ken Blake]

I don't think I've ever made Beef Stroganoff, but it's possible to buy
beef already cut into paper-thin slices. I sometimes buy it at an
oriental supermarket to use to make sukiyaki, which is usually soupy.

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:47:07 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 5:59:51?PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 13/04/23 23:43, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>> > Wikipedia implies that it's unknown which Stroganov is the eponym of
>> > beef Stroganoff. I didn't notice any that were artists, though some
>> > were important patrons of art.
>> >
>> > Apparently the original versions of Tetrazzini and Stroganoff did
>> > not involve canned soup.
>
>> It's been ages since I last made beef Stroganoff - cutting the beef
>> paper-thin is such a tedious job - but it would never have occurred to
>> me to add any sort of soup.
>
>I admit that I've heard the version with ground beef and canned cream of
>mushroom soup called "poor man's stroganoff".

Is a poor man strong enough to eat that?

I've never heard it called that.

>> My recipe uses only beef, mushrooms, butter,
>> and cream. Delicious, but hard work.
>
>Interesting. I've had it with beef cubes or strips,

Same for me.

> but not with paper-thin
>slices,

Nor have I

>and Wikipedia doesn't mention such a thing.


>"Real" beef Stroganoff in the U.S. probably has onions as well as
>mushrooms, and sour cream in the sauce.

Yes, both those have been in any version I've ever had.

>Neither that nor your version
>is particularly Russian.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that you're right. There are
some exceptions of course, but most foreign food in the US is not
particularly authentic.

[bruce bowser]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 10:33:16 PM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
> On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 6:39:25 AM UTC-7, bruce bowser wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 4:31:51 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 12-Apr-23 22:30, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 12-Apr-23 17:06, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > > >> of Picasso
> > > > >>> His name may perhaps not be trademarkable, [1]
> > > > >>> but his signature certainly is,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That surname isn't unique.
> > > > >> Suppose someone with that surname used it in a commercial venture.
> > > > >> Would they have as much trouble as a Mr or Ms McDonald?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any restaurant can have 'sole Picasso' on the 'carte' of course.
> > > > > (but it seems to be no longer fashionable)
> > > >
> > > > Are there many dishes named for/after` artists? (leaving Dame Nelly to
> > > > one side)
> > > >
> > > > "Sole Salvador Dali" might make an interesting dish.
> > >
> > > The Chateaubriand is an obvious example, as is the Boeuf Stroganov.
> > > The origins of Suzette are disputed.
> > I never figured out French. What is the difference between cooked steak, chateaubriand, chateaux briand, chateaux-briand, châteaux briand and London broil?
> >
> Dunno. French is tricky..

I think its users are just very opinionated. Not necessarily wrong, though.