Common nick names

[Peter Percival]

I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
written down somewhere?
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 21:42:55 +0000, Peter Percival
<peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
>written down somewhere?

Might be a play on words:

"Knobby styles"

Styles as in those used to cross fences/walls. Knobby means "rough",
covered with knobs, the "knobby trunk of a tree".

Just a guess.

[Jack Campin]

> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty
> Miller, it's because millers of flower would get dusty.

It's more likely because there is a well known song of that title.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Cheryl]

Or the plant, or the moth. Perhaps both the flower and the moth were
named after millers. I'm sure someone somewhere has researched the question.

--
Cheryl

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 21:42:55 +0000, Peter Percival
<peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
>written down somewhere?

The only "Nobby Styles" I know of is an English footballer. His full
name is Norbert Peter Stiles. I've always assumed that "Nobby" is a
familiar form of "Norbert". That would match the names of his father
Charlie, and his mother Kitty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobby_Stiles


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[GordonD]

There was a very famous footballer called Norbert Styles, known as
Nobby. That was in the 1960s so quite possibly he was the origin.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 22:21:41 +0000, GordonD <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

Right-O. I noticed the football player, but there is no information
how the name, "Norbert" came to be, "Nobby". I am suggesting a
possibility.

[Robert Bannister]

That sounds likely, but I have also come across "Nobby" applied to all
male persons surnamed "Clark(e)" too.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Lewis]

Norbert to Nobby seems so obvious it surely doesn't need an explanation.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Robert to Bob.

--
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

[Don Phillipson]

"Peter Percival" <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o8stp2$g6u$2...@news.albasani.net...

>I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
>written down somewhere?

Probably yes, although I regret I cannot show you where.
The name Nobby has long been associated with Clark in England, i.e.
men called Clark have for more than 100 years often been nicknamed
Clark, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobby The Guardian polled
readers about this, cf.
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-18378,00.html
and a web site had a go at
http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/326/
Army habits and customs are frequently mentioned, e.g. any man
named Murphy would be nicknames Spud: but many other people
with Irish names are thus named (e.g. I was taught RAF administration
by Sgt. Spud O'Halloran -- and typing by Sgt. Nobby Clark, who
reported me for skipping church parade.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Peter Percival]

Peter Percival wrote:
> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why

millers of flour... sorry

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:13:45 +0000, Peter Percival
<peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Peter Percival wrote:
>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>
>millers of flour... sorry
>

Not wildy wrong. The grain that is milled into flour is a seed of the
plant and is part of the plant's flower.

>> people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
>> written down somewhere?

--

[Jerry Friedman]

On 2/26/17 9:00 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:13:45 +0000, Peter Percival
> <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Peter Percival wrote:
>>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>>
>> millers of flour... sorry
>>
> Not wildy wrong. The grain that is milled into flour is a seed of the
> plant and is part of the plant's flower.

And etymologically, flour is the flower (best part) of the milled grain.

http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=flour

>>> people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles.

...

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mack A. Damia]

Why not "Bert"? Sure it's obvious to you after the fact.

>It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Robert to Bob.

"Nobby' also means "spiffy" - a sharp dresser, so there is "Nobby
Styles" again. Nothing is crystal clear as if you have the scoop on
"the way it is".

[HVS]

On 26 Feb 2017, Mack A. Damia wrote

There's nothing to stop Norbert being changed to "Nobby", or "Bert", or
"Nozza" (or probably a few other standard formations).

Lots of names generate multiple nicknames, all of which can be equally
standard and/or obvious.

>> It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Robert to Bob.
>
> "Nobby' also means "spiffy" - a sharp dresser, so there is "Nobby
> Styles" again. Nothing is crystal clear as if you have the scoop on
> "the way it is".

I don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread (I've not read all the
posts), but there's also "Nobby no-mates", used to describe someone with,
well, no mates.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 17:22:21 GMT, HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

Well, it's easy to look at occupancies and say, "Oh yes, that's the
answer", but it's not that easy to go back and find the correct
etiology of something; you can't take Google's word, that's for sure.

These things are almost like a "Chinese Whisper", too, that get
changed from person-to-person, generation-to-generation depending on
likes, dislikes, mistakes and popular trends.

[Mack A. Damia]

*********

Spell chuck did a number there. It should be "occurrences".

[Lewis]

That presupposes there can be only one derived nickname. Where I to meet
someone named "Nobby" I would guess, and possibly assume, that his name
was Norbert. What else could it be?

I've known a lot of people named Chris/Kris but also a few named Topher
and one named Toff. Lots of Alexes and Alexanderes and a few Xanderes and
at least one Sandy.

>>It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Robert to Bob.

> "Nobby' also means "spiffy" - a sharp dresser, so there is "Nobby
> Styles" again. Nothing is crystal clear as if you have the scoop on
> "the way it is".

Most nicknames do not have a "meaning" they are simply diminutives of
another name. Bob also means to float on moving water, but I don't think
that has anything at all to do with it being a nickname for Robert.

--
Rincewind had always been happy to think of himself as a racist. The
One Hundred Meters, the Mile, the Marathon -- he'd run them all.

[RH Draney]

On 2/26/2017 6:13 AM, Peter Percival wrote:
> Peter Percival wrote:
>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>
> millers of flour... sorry

Bambi (chasing butterfly): "Bird!"
Thumper (laughing): "No, that's not a bird. That's a butterfly."
Bambi: "Butterfly? Butter..." (sniffing flower) "Butterfly!"
Thumper: "No, that's a flower!"
Bambi (nose-to-nose with skunk): "Flower?"
Flower (the skunk): "Me?"
Thumper (breathless with laughter): "No, no, no, no! That's not a
flower!"
Flower: "He can call me Flower if he wants to."

(On topic because it's about vocabulary acquisition)....r

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 21:34:46 -0000 (UTC), Lewis

Ralph? It could be anything! We had a guy in school who we called,
"Buckwheat". What do you assume his name to be? It was "Lawrence"
(Larry). Eugene was Buzzy, Harry was Inch, John was Flash, Michael
was Curly, Jerry was B.O., Ken was Sam-O and Barry was Pinhead (Whitey
to his face).

The guy you meet could have gotten the nickname "Nobby" from anywhere.

>I've known a lot of people named Chris/Kris but also a few named Topher
>and one named Toff. Lots of Alexes and Alexanderes and a few Xanderes and
>at least one Sandy.

I knew a "Robert" whose nickname was "Schmuck". Also a "Richard"
(Dick) whose nick was "Percy".

>>>It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Robert to Bob.
>
>> "Nobby' also means "spiffy" - a sharp dresser, so there is "Nobby
>> Styles" again. Nothing is crystal clear as if you have the scoop on
>> "the way it is".
>
>Most nicknames do not have a "meaning" they are simply diminutives of
>another name. Bob also means to float on moving water, but I don't think
>that has anything at all to do with it being a nickname for Robert.

Not necessarily as I have pointed out.

[Sam Plusnet]

Anyone with the surname "White" would be called "Chalky".

--
Sam Plusnet

[Robert Bannister]

On 26/2/17 9:13 pm, Peter Percival wrote:
> Peter Percival wrote:
>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>
> millers of flour... sorry

I didn't say anything at the time, but I did think it was a bit 70s.

The teacher we had at school that we called Dusty amongst ourselves was
surnamed "Binns".

[Lewis]

I never claimed that all nicknames were versions of a given name.

> The guy you meet could have gotten the nickname "Nobby" from anywhere.

Sure, and Betty could be named Rachel. It's going to be a lot less
likely than Elizabeth.

>>Most nicknames do not have a "meaning" they are simply diminutives of
>>another name. Bob also means to float on moving water, but I don't think
>>that has anything at all to do with it being a nickname for Robert.

> Not necessarily as I have pointed out.

I don't think so. All you have pointed out is that some people have
nicknames that have nothing to do with their names.

--
'And stars don't care what you wish, and magic don't make things better,
and no-one doesn't get burned who sticks their hand in a fire.'

[RH Draney]

On 2/26/2017 3:26 PM, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 21:34:46 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>> That presupposes there can be only one derived nickname. Where I to meet
>> someone named "Nobby" I would guess, and possibly assume, that his name
>> was Norbert. What else could it be?
>
> Ralph? It could be anything! We had a guy in school who we called,
> "Buckwheat". What do you assume his name to be? It was "Lawrence"
> (Larry). Eugene was Buzzy, Harry was Inch, John was Flash, Michael
> was Curly, Jerry was B.O., Ken was Sam-O and Barry was Pinhead (Whitey
> to his face).

Because my maternal grandfather didn't want me named after my father, he
said "I'm gonna call him Zebedee" (Zeb for short)...and so he did, and
so did everyone else I knew up to about age ten, and so do my relatives
to this day....

> I knew a "Robert" whose nickname was "Schmuck". Also a "Richard"
> (Dick) whose nick was "Percy".

Every "Corky" I've ever known was "Robert" on his birth certificate....r

[Katy Jennison]

The illustrator Korky Paul is really Hamish Vigne Christie Paul.

--
Katy Jennison

[occam]

On 25/02/2017 22:42, Peter Percival wrote:
> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
> people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
> written down somewhere?

Yes. If your surname is Strapp, it is laid down in common law that your
first born should be named 'Jock'. Your assertions are silly, as is the
premise of this thread.

[RH Draney]

Four first names and no last name?...guess that beats Jennifer Jason
Leigh....

Used to work with a woman whose first name was Hamilton...her husband's
first name was Morgan, and her daughter was Peyton...I don't know if she
had any relatives at all with first names for first names....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:55:39 AM UTC-5, RH Draney wrote:

> Used to work with a woman whose first name was Hamilton...her husband's
> first name was Morgan, and her daughter was Peyton...I don't know if she
> had any relatives at all with first names for first names....r

They proudly traced their lineage to the antebellum South, no doubt.

[RH Draney]

No, as you say, doubt....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

"Morgan" doesn't seem unusual as a first-name; girls were often given names that
preserved the maternal family name. I once met a Classicist (at the time a
Penn graduate student) named Peyton Randolph something; he was a direct
descendant of the Peyton Randolph who signed the Declaration.

[Cheryl]

Morgan is one of those names that I think of as a first name, but which
can be either male or female. I'd always assumed it was an exclusively
female name (perhaps I was influenced by Morgan le Fay until I lived in
a community in which it was used as a male name.

--
Cheryl

[Lanarcam]

Why do you say "Morgan le Fay" instead of "Morgan la Fay"
(Morgane la fée) ?

[Cheryl]

That's how I learned the spelling of the name.

Wiki agrees:

Morgan le Fay /ˈmɔːrɡən lə ˈfeɪ/, alternatively known as Morgan le Faye,
Morgen, Morgaine, Morgain, Morgana, Morganna, Morgant, Morgane, Morgne,
Morge, Morgue, and other names

I guess if you have a character who figures in a wide range of folk
tales, not to mention all the later novels and poems and so on, you have
to expect there to be many versions of her name.

--
Cheryl

--
Cheryl

[Jerry Friedman]

"Le" is how it's written in /Le Morte Darthur/ (sic, sic, sic) by
Thomas Malory, the best-known source for the Arthur stories. See note
34 at

https://books.google.com/books?id=h8F8MbB8APYC&pg=PA18

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

To me, Morgan was always a surname (of Welsh origin) until I came across
it as a male given name, perhaps in my 30s. I first saw it used as
female in the given names of women in the US.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2017-Feb-28 10:15, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> "Le" is how it's written in /Le Morte Darthur/ (sic, sic, sic) by
> Thomas Malory, the best-known source for the Arthur stories. See note
> 34 at
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=h8F8MbB8APYC&pg=PA18

There's a reference to note 34 on page 26, but how do you find the note?
The only footnotes I can see are the ones with letter labels.

I've thought in the past that Malory wasn't good at French spelling, but
now another possible explanation occurs to me: perhaps the French used
in England after the Norman invasion evolved significantly away from the
French of France.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Cheryl]

I don't know how to make the right note show up but it's on page 186
and says "Morgan le Fay (French la has been reduced to le here, as often
in Medieval England"

--
Cheryl

[Peter Moylan]

When I was learning French I used to try to say something halfway
between "le" and "la" when I wasn't sure of the gender of a noun (which
was a lot of the time). Eventually I realised that I wasn't fooling anyone.

Je suis un rockstar
Je havez une residence
Je habitez la ...

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

The name "Hamilton" seems to be popular in Brazil for reasons
unknown to me.

--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton

[Quinn C]

* Cheryl:

I always assumed that the Fay should properly be Morgaine or
Morgana, but I see the most relevant source has been cited later
in this thread.

"Morgana" is the most common form in German; further, I may have
been influenced by Marion Zimmer Bradley, the first
English-language source of King Arthur stories in my case, who
uses "Morgaine", and recently the BBC series "Merlin", which uses
"Morgana". Interestingly, the actor who plays Merlin has the last
name "Morgan".

--
Some things are taken away from you, some you leave behind-and
some you carry with you, world without end.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.31

[Mack A. Damia]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 12:17:31 -0500, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:55:39 AM UTC-5, RH Draney wrote:
>>
>>> Used to work with a woman whose first name was Hamilton...her husband's
>>> first name was Morgan, and her daughter was Peyton...I don't know if she
>>> had any relatives at all with first names for first names....r
>>
>> They proudly traced their lineage to the antebellum South, no doubt.
>
>The name "Hamilton" seems to be popular in Brazil for reasons
>unknown to me.

Well, it's not in the top 100 names; however, I don't know how old
this list is.

http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/penpals/stats.php3?Pays=BRA

The only connection seems to be a British race driver, Lewis Hamilton,
who is very popular there.

[Quinn C]

* Mack A. Damia:

Nah, he's born 1985, far too new.

I didn't expect it to be one of the top names there, but it seems
strangely popular for a foreign name that isn't even particularly
popular where it came from.
In the SSA statistics of US names, Hamilton reached its popularity
peak in 1908 at rank 458, and it hasn't been in the top 1000 since
1934. Maybe it'll get another chance based on the current musical
craze?

As for Brazil, I first noticed it when I had a colleague named
Hamilton from Brazil. Now Portuguese Wikipedia doesn't have a list
of them, but when I search, I find about 20 Brazilian-looking
Hamiltons that made it in. That seems a lot.

Going back at least to the 1920s:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Calderari_Leal (1923-2012,
physician)
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Chaves (1925-1985,
journalist, composer, cineast)
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Prisco_Para%C3%ADso
(1922-2005, politician)

--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220

[Mack A. Damia]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:34:20 -0500, Quinn C

Erle Stanley Gardner liked to play games with names.

The District Attorney was Hamilton Burger.

I knew a Mexican-American guy about fifteen years ago who loved JFK;
it was an obsession, and he had his granddaughter named, "Kennedy".

I cannot find any relationship between Alexander Hamilton and Brazil,
so your observation remains a mystery.

[Sam Plusnet]

There's a wikipedia page on Morgan as a given name.
It lists (presumably) well known people with that name, both male and
female.
All the women mentioned are American except for one Australian - and
Morgan le Fey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_(given_name)

--
Sam Plusnet

[occam]

On 26/02/2017 17:19, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 2/26/17 9:00 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:13:45 +0000, Peter Percival
>> <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Percival wrote:
>>>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>>>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered
>>>> why
>>>

>>> millers of flour... sorry
>>>
>> Not wildy wrong. The grain that is milled into flour is a seed of the
>> plant and is part of the plant's flower.
>
> And etymologically, flour is the flower (best part) of the milled grain.
>
> http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=flour
>


Interesting. From the same website: a "nick name" derives from a
corruption of "an ekename" (old English)

[Peter T. Daniels]

Although despite the title of this thread, it's spelled <nickname>.

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 8:19:56 AM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 2/26/17 9:00 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> > On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:13:45 +0000, Peter Percival
> > <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Peter Percival wrote:
> >>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
> >>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
> >>
> >> millers of flour... sorry
> >>
> > Not wildy wrong. The grain that is milled into flour is a seed of the
> > plant and is part of the plant's flower.
>

> And etymologically, flour is the flower (best part) of the milled grain.
>
> http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=flour

<URL:https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/f6/fb/c6f6fbca5e7d7f50c2371419da226583.jpg>
shows that there is a precedent.

>
> >>> people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles.

> ...
>

If you stack them, are they cascading Nobby Styles?

/dps

[Peter Percival]

Peter Percival wrote:
> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why

> people named Styles are commonly called Nobby Styles. Are such things
> written down somewhere?

Thank you for all replies. Yes, I think I meant Nobby Clark, but a
vague memory of the footballer interposed itself...

--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

[Peter Percival]

Robert Bannister wrote:

> On 26/2/17 9:13 pm, Peter Percival wrote:
>> Peter Percival wrote:
>>> I know why people named Miller are commonly called Dusty Miller, it's
>>> because millers of flower would get dusty. But I have long wondered why
>>

>> millers of flour... sorry
>
> I didn't say anything at the time, but I did think it was a bit 70s.
>
> The teacher we had at school that we called Dusty amongst ourselves was
> surnamed "Binns".

We had two Whites to distinguish. One was, inevitably, called Chalky.
The other being an ugly sod was called Uggy.

[Jerry Friedman]

Yes, I apologize for my mistake in cutting. Try

https://books.google.com/books?id=h8F8MbB8APYC&pg=PA186

(though there's still no guarantee it will work outside North America).

--
Jerry Friedman

[GordonD]

Worked fine for me.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Robert Bannister]

As ">>>>" mentioned above, the title of Malory's book is "Le Morte
Darthur". In modern French one might expect "La Mort d'Arthur". So, is
it three mistakes or olde semi-Norman French?

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Robert Bannister]

Is the Chicago Manual of S. slightly Nobby too?

[Peter Moylan]

The French noun "mort" is a little unusual in that it looks masculine
but is really feminine. It's easy to imagine that some people, knowing
that it is feminine, might adopt a more feminine-looking spelling
"morte". However, atilf suggests that it has had the spelling "mort" for
at least a thousand years.

Still, that's for the French that eventually became modern French. The
rules might have been different in Norman.

The lack of an apostrophe in "Darthur" is easier to understand. As we
know from today's English, people can be very sloppy about apostrophes,
because they don't exist in the spoken language.

[Snidely]

Remember Saturday, when Peter Moylan was the plaintiff:

> The lack of an apostrophe in "Darthur" is easier to understand. As we
> know from today's English, people can be very sloppy about apostrophes,
> because they don't exist in the spoken language.

Sins of omission?

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.