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(Very) weird comment made to me by Quinn C.
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Paul Epstein
Nov 18, 2022, 1:14:37 PM11/18/22
to
Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
An ongoing thread went like this:
I said:
I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
one-handed.
Ken Blake then said:
If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
allouatta muslimsis.
And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
Thank You
Paul Epstein
it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
An ongoing thread went like this:
I said:
I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
one-handed.
Ken Blake then said:
If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
allouatta muslimsis.
And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
Thank You
Paul Epstein
Quinn C
Nov 18, 2022, 1:19:03 PM11/18/22
to
* Paul Epstein:
See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
feeling.
--
Veronica: You named your puppy "The Missus"?
Cliff: Says the owner of a dog named "Pony".
-- Veronica Mars, S04E05
Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
feeling.
--
Veronica: You named your puppy "The Missus"?
Cliff: Says the owner of a dog named "Pony".
-- Veronica Mars, S04E05
Paul Epstein
Nov 18, 2022, 1:30:00 PM11/18/22
to
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> * Paul Epstein:
> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > An ongoing thread went like this:
> >
> > I said:
> > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > one-handed.
> >
> > Ken Blake then said:
> > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > allouatta muslimsis.
> >
> > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> >
> > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> >
> > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
>
> Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> feeling.
"muslimensis" is the name of an ancestor of modern humans, I think,
> * Paul Epstein:
> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > An ongoing thread went like this:
> >
> > I said:
> > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > one-handed.
> >
> > Ken Blake then said:
> > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > allouatta muslimsis.
> >
> > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> >
> > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> >
> > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
>
> Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> feeling.
so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
It's hard to understand how you can say "whoosh" to indicate that I missed
the point when the point I made was to try to identify the species that Ken
specifically referred to.
Is your point that, since we're in a discussion about monkeys, you're trying to
impersonate a dumbass on the grounds that monkeys and apes are often
caricatured as being like a less intelligent form of human?
Otherwise, I'm just as confused about your point(s) as ever?
Paul Epstein
Bebercito
Nov 18, 2022, 1:41:31 PM11/18/22
to
subspecies name for "alouatta" in reference to Muslims being expected
to eat with their right hand, in accordance with their religious principles.
bruce bowser
Nov 18, 2022, 1:49:25 PM11/18/22
to
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-5, Paul Epstein wrote:
> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> An ongoing thread went like this:
>
> I said:
> I've also observed monkeys
(as separate from gorillas, other apes, gibbons, chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, or lemur, loris, or tarsier)
> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> An ongoing thread went like this:
>
> I said:
> I've also observed monkeys
Paul Epstein
Nov 18, 2022, 2:17:48 PM11/18/22
to
but, as an 85 year old, it's an understandable lapse from Ken.
Paul Epstein
Jerry Friedman
Nov 18, 2022, 2:46:07 PM11/18/22
to
You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
/Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
-ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Epstein
Nov 18, 2022, 3:55:08 PM11/18/22
to
When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a discussion about ancestors of our species.
As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where
anti-Islam prejudice can lead.
Paul Epstein
bruce bowser
Nov 18, 2022, 4:04:10 PM11/18/22
to
(or do you have new information for us?)
Adam Funk
Nov 18, 2022, 4:15:08 PM11/18/22
to
--
I have a great programming joke but it's only
funny on my machine.
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 18, 2022, 4:31:41 PM11/18/22
to
> > You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> > muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> > /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
> > Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
> > -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
> > Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
> > https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>
> > muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> > /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
> > Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
> > -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
> > Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
> > https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>
> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into anti-Islam racism.
> When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>
> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where
> anti-Islam prejudice can lead.
Incidentally, in AUE "whoosh" means someone didn't get a joke.
> When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>
> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where
> anti-Islam prejudice can lead.
It whooshed over someone's head.
I didn't look up allouatta until just now. It's simply the howler
monkey genus (and hence should be capitalized).
Paul Epstein
Nov 18, 2022, 4:46:16 PM11/18/22
to
the semi-finals of the ongoing Grand Slam of Darts.
I don't have any particularly new information about racism but obviously I don't like it.
Paul Epstein
Ken Blake
Nov 18, 2022, 5:55:25 PM11/18/22
to
Ken Blake
Nov 18, 2022, 5:59:32 PM11/18/22
to
poor. It was simply a made-up species including the letters m u s l i
m.
Quinn C
Nov 18, 2022, 7:14:01 PM11/18/22
to
* Jerry Friedman:
I think you're right. It's just so common in naming species that it
seemed natural.
> With some help from the Latin
> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
seemed natural.
> With some help from the Latin
> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Richard Heathfield
Nov 19, 2022, 4:29:28 AM11/19/22
to
more tolerant than others.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Pamela
Nov 19, 2022, 4:57:57 AM11/19/22
to
On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>>
>> [SNIP]
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
>> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
>> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>
>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
>> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
>> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>
>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>> uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Friedman
>
> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a
> discussion about ancestors of our species.
>
> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
> prejudice can lead.
>
> Paul Epstein
Is Islam a race?
>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
>> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
>> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>
>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
>> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
>> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>
>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>> uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>
>> --
>> Jerry Friedman
>
> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a
> discussion about ancestors of our species.
>
> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
> prejudice can lead.
>
> Paul Epstein
Even if it were, does that make anyone who draws attention to the
shortcomings of Islam a racist?
occam
Nov 19, 2022, 6:34:57 AM11/19/22
to
Political correctness is the same in the UK as anywhere else, especially
when it comes to religions and cultures. Ask your Hindu PM.
occam
Nov 19, 2022, 6:37:18 AM11/19/22
to
On 18/11/2022 19:41, Bebercito wrote:
> What you missed is that Ken seems to have coined "muslimensis" as a
> subspecies name for "alouatta" in reference to Muslims being expected
> to eat with their right hand, in accordance with their religious principles.
Do you know the true origin of the 'religious principle' of Muslims not
> What you missed is that Ken seems to have coined "muslimensis" as a
> subspecies name for "alouatta" in reference to Muslims being expected
> to eat with their right hand, in accordance with their religious principles.
handling food with their left hand?
Ken Blake
Nov 19, 2022, 9:03:48 AM11/19/22
to
their asses.
Jerry Friedman
Nov 19, 2022, 11:15:18 AM11/19/22
to
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
Nov 19, 2022, 11:49:07 AM11/19/22
to
* Jerry Friedman:
Thanks for steering us in the ortho... I mean, right direction.
--
Quinn: I'm not very good at talking to boys.
Zoey: It's easy! It's just like talking to girls, but you got to
use smaller words.
-- Zoey 101, Quinn's Date
--
Quinn: I'm not very good at talking to boys.
Zoey: It's easy! It's just like talking to girls, but you got to
use smaller words.
-- Zoey 101, Quinn's Date
Dingbat
Nov 19, 2022, 1:22:45 PM11/19/22
to
reported that they urinated on him for trying to observe them.
Unless he made a howler in calling them howling monkeys.
Sam Plusnet
Nov 19, 2022, 2:01:27 PM11/19/22
to
One hand. Multiple "asses".
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
Nov 19, 2022, 2:06:17 PM11/19/22
to
word "Papal" was pronounced in a way that rhymed with apple.
It may be 'correct' in some dialect, but it landed with a clunk on my
ear, every time.
--
Sam Plusnet
Ken Blake
Nov 19, 2022, 5:31:19 PM11/19/22
to
Adam Funk
Nov 20, 2022, 4:45:07 AM11/20/22
to
the "face" vowel in the first syllable. It certainly would be jarring.
--
And awful things are happening: we've let this drama fold,
and now the time has come at last to crush the motif of the rose.
Adam Funk
Nov 20, 2022, 4:45:08 AM11/20/22
to
--
Classical Greek lent itself to the promulgation of a rich culture,
indeed, to Western civilization. Computer languages bring us
doorbells that chime with thirty-two tunes, alt.sex.bestiality, and
Tetris clones. (Stoll 1995)
Jerry Friedman
Nov 20, 2022, 10:08:39 AM11/20/22
to
> >> > Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
> >> > -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
> >> > Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
> >> >
> >> > https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
> >
> >> Well, must be the canonical word.
> >
> > And that's no bull!
> If you mean it, put a seal on it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Nov 20, 2022, 10:13:37 AM11/20/22
to
On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-11-19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
[pontification]
> > Which reminds me of watching a Youtube video last night, in which the
> > word "Papal" was pronounced in a way that rhymed with apple.
> >
> > It may be 'correct' in some dialect, but it landed with a clunk on my
> > ear, every time.
> I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced in English other than with
> the "face" vowel in the first syllable. It certainly would be jarring.
The "apple" pronounciation isn't in M-W. I don't know where to look
for possible non-standard British pronunciations.
--
Jerry Friedman
> On 2022-11-19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
[pontification]
> > Which reminds me of watching a Youtube video last night, in which the
> > word "Papal" was pronounced in a way that rhymed with apple.
> >
> > It may be 'correct' in some dialect, but it landed with a clunk on my
> > ear, every time.
> I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced in English other than with
> the "face" vowel in the first syllable. It certainly would be jarring.
for possible non-standard British pronunciations.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
Nov 20, 2022, 11:11:42 AM11/20/22
to
seal.
Sam Plusnet
Nov 20, 2022, 2:29:52 PM11/20/22
to
--
Sam Plusnet
lar3ryca
Nov 20, 2022, 3:51:25 PM11/20/22
to
--
A baby seal walks into a club...
Peter Moylan
Nov 20, 2022, 8:30:32 PM11/20/22
to
On 19/11/22 20:57, Pamela wrote:
> On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that
>>> "Homo muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe
>>> what /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I
>>> know, -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the
>>> Latin Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>
>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>>
>>>
uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>
> On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that
>>> "Homo muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe
>>> what /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I
>>> know, -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the
>>> Latin Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>
>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>>
>>>
uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>
>> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
>> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was
>> a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>
>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
>> prejudice can lead.
>
>> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was
>> a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>
>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
>> prejudice can lead.
>
> Is Islam a race?
>
> Even if it were, does that make anyone who draws attention to the
> shortcomings of Islam a racist?
Calling it a shortcoming might be offensive, but I don't see anything
>
> Even if it were, does that make anyone who draws attention to the
> shortcomings of Islam a racist?
offensive in what Ken wrote. Muslims are quite open about their using a
particular hand for eating, and would quite possibly laugh at Ken's joke.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Dingbat
Nov 20, 2022, 8:47:33 PM11/20/22
to
One could quite easily contrive PAPPAL as an adjective of PAP (father)
but it seems a bear to form an adjective from Papa (father) or Lama
(Tibetan Buddhist monk).
Dingbat
Nov 20, 2022, 10:05:14 PM11/20/22
to
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:46:07 AM UTC-8, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> > > * Paul Epstein:
> > > > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > > > An ongoing thread went like this:
> > > >
> > > > I said:
> > > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > > > one-handed.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Blake then said:
> > > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > > > allouatta muslimsis.
> > > >
> > > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> > > >
> > > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> > > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
> > >
> > > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> > > feeling.
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> > > * Paul Epstein:
> > > > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > > > An ongoing thread went like this:
> > > >
> > > > I said:
> > > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > > > one-handed.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Blake then said:
> > > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > > > allouatta muslimsis.
> > > >
> > > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> > > >
> > > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> > > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
> > >
> > > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> > > feeling.
> > "muslimensis" is the name of an ancestor of modern humans, I think,
> > so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
> ...
>
> > so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
> ...
>
> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>
Referring to Islamists as Muslimensis is a misnomer unless one thinks
> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>
all Muslims are Islamists: One could call Islamists a subspecies of
Muslimus and name them Muslimus Thanatophilus, going by the
following:
>
This paper describes those of the 'Islamist Weltanschatuung' as having
a 'Thanatophile ideology'.
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/ACLURM001331.pdf
>
> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
Richard Heathfield
Nov 21, 2022, 4:24:58 AM11/21/22
to
> Unless by 'where I am' you mean in your own household.
> Political correctness is the same in the UK as anywhere else
people are tolerant, and others (politically correct people) are
intolerant. Which kind are you?
Kerr-Mudd, John
Nov 21, 2022, 4:33:31 AM11/21/22
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 09:24:53 +0000
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
[]
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
> > Political correctness is the same in the UK as anywhere else
>
> Intolerance is indeed the same in the UK as elsewhere. Some
> people are tolerant, and others (politically correct people) are
> intolerant. Which kind are you?
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_You_Tolerate_This_Your_Children_Will_Be_Next
>
> Intolerance is indeed the same in the UK as elsewhere. Some
> people are tolerant, and others (politically correct people) are
> intolerant. Which kind are you?
>
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Adam Funk
Nov 21, 2022, 5:45:08 AM11/21/22
to
Brit. /ˈpeɪpl/
U.S. /ˈpeɪp(ə)l/
--
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.
---Spock
Richard Heathfield
Nov 21, 2022, 7:43:47 AM11/21/22
to
On 19/11/2022 9:57 am, Pamela wrote:
> On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
>>> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
>>> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
>>> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
>>> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>
>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>> uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jerry Friedman
>>
>> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
>> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a
>> discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>
>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
>> prejudice can lead.
>
> Is Islam a race?
> On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>>
>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
>>> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
>>> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
>>> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
>>> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>
>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>> uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jerry Friedman
>>
>> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
>> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a
>> discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>
>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
>> prejudice can lead.
>
And of course the answer is "no".
Pamela
Nov 21, 2022, 8:12:10 AM11/21/22
to
"We have the right to express ourselves freely and hold our own
opinions – even if our views are unpopular or could upset or offend
others."
https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/right/freedom-of-expression/
As some English judges said recently:
Presiding over a case in the Court of Appeal, Lord Justice Bean and
Mr Justice Warby said: 'Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not
worth having'.
They added that 'free speech encompasses the right to offend, and
indeed to abuse another'. The judgment from two senior members of
the judiciary will set a precedent for future cases involving
freedom of speech.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9066069/Woke-folk-beware-
Freedom-speech-includes-right-offend-say-judges-landmark-ruling.html
Quinn C
Nov 21, 2022, 9:17:24 AM11/21/22
to
* Paul Epstein:
> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I learned
> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I believe the
reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling about a person.
Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the post, but seeing that
subject line did raise an eyebrow.
--
It's a strange sensation, dying. No matter how many times it happens
to you, you never get used to it.
-- Ezri Dax, ST DS9, S07E03
Adam Funk
Nov 21, 2022, 9:30:07 AM11/21/22
to
On 2022-11-18, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
>> > * Paul Epstein:
>> > > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
>> > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
>> > > An ongoing thread went like this:
>> > >
>> > > I said:
>> > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
>> > > one-handed.
>> > >
>> > > Ken Blake then said:
>> > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
>> > > allouatta muslimsis.
>> > >
>> > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
>> > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
>> > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
>> > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
>> > >
>> > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
>> > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
>> > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
>> > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
>> >
>> > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
>> > feeling.
>> "muslimensis" is the name of an ancestor of modern humans, I think,
>> so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
> ...
>> > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
>> > > An ongoing thread went like this:
>> > >
>> > > I said:
>> > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
>> > > one-handed.
>> > >
>> > > Ken Blake then said:
>> > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
>> > > allouatta muslimsis.
>> > >
>> > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
>> > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
>> > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
>> > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
>> > >
>> > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
>> > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
>> > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
>> > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
>> >
>> > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
>> > feeling.
>> "muslimensis" is the name of an ancestor of modern humans, I think,
>> so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
>
> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
"Great Replacement" drivel?
> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
--
she's as beautiful as a foot,
she heard someone say, the other day
CDB
Nov 21, 2022, 11:06:49 AM11/21/22
to
On 11/21/2022 9:17 AM, Quinn C wrote:
> Paul Epstein:
>> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I
> learned it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I
> believe the reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling
> about a person. Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the
> post, but seeing that subject line did raise an eyebrow.
Phew. Lucky thing he didn't use your real name, O.C.
> Paul Epstein:
>> Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I
> learned it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I
> believe the reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling
> about a person. Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the
> post, but seeing that subject line did raise an eyebrow.
CDB
Nov 21, 2022, 11:13:51 AM11/21/22
to
On 11/21/2022 7:43 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Pamela wrote:
--
And not just by the new bien-pensants; the Muslim Anti-defamation League
has you in its sights.
> Pamela wrote:
>> Paul Epstein said:
>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that
>>>> "Homo muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe
>>>> what /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I
>>>> know, -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from
>>>> the Latin Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>>>
>>>>
uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>> [SNIP]
>>>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that
>>>> "Homo muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe
>>>> what /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
>>>> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I
>>>> know, -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from
>>>> the Latin Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>>>> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/doc
>>>>
>>>>
uments/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
>>> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer
>>> into anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that
>>> this was a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where
>>> anti-Islam prejudice can lead.
>> Is Islam a race?
> And of course the answer is "no".
it's better than a race. It's a Protected Category.
>>> into anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that
>>> this was a discussion about ancestors of our species.
>>> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
>>> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where
>>> anti-Islam prejudice can lead.
>> Is Islam a race?
> And of course the answer is "no".
--
And not just by the new bien-pensants; the Muslim Anti-defamation League
has you in its sights.
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 21, 2022, 11:38:01 AM11/21/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 8:12:10 AM UTC-5, Pamela wrote:
> As some English judges said recently:
>
> Presiding over a case in the Court of Appeal, Lord Justice Bean and
> Mr Justice Warby said: 'Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not
> worth having'.
>
> They added that 'free speech encompasses the right to offend, and
> indeed to abuse another'. The judgment from two senior members of
> the judiciary will set a precedent for future cases involving
> freedom of speech.
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9066069/Woke-folk-beware-
> Freedom-speech-includes-right-offend-say-judges-landmark-ruling.html
And it only took until December 2020 for Freedom of Speech to be
> As some English judges said recently:
>
> Presiding over a case in the Court of Appeal, Lord Justice Bean and
> Mr Justice Warby said: 'Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not
> worth having'.
>
> They added that 'free speech encompasses the right to offend, and
> indeed to abuse another'. The judgment from two senior members of
> the judiciary will set a precedent for future cases involving
> freedom of speech.
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9066069/Woke-folk-beware-
> Freedom-speech-includes-right-offend-say-judges-landmark-ruling.html
added to the supposed "constitution" of the UK.
occam
Nov 21, 2022, 11:45:53 AM11/21/22
to
On 21/11/2022 10:24, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
>> On 19/11/2022 10:29, Richard Heathfield wrote:
<snip>
> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
>> On 19/11/2022 10:29, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>
>>>> These days, it's probably not considered an acceptable joke anywhere
>>>> outside India,
>>>
>>> I'm not in India, but it's acceptable where I am.
>>
>> No it's not.
>
> Yes, it is.
>
>> Unless by 'where I am' you mean in your own household.
>
> I do.
>
>> Political correctness is the same in the UK as anywhere else
>
> Intolerance is indeed the same in the UK as elsewhere. Some people are
> tolerant, and others (politically correct people) are intolerant. Which
> kind are you?
>
people who are offended by the slightest. (You sound as if you are. )
Jerry Friedman
Nov 21, 2022, 1:28:53 PM11/21/22
to
to fairly intolerant, and people in the middle of the spectrum will
tolerate and refuse to tolerate different things. And that intolerant
people include the politically correct and others, unless you have
an unusually broad definition of "politically correct".
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Nov 21, 2022, 1:44:17 PM11/21/22
to
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 12:46:07 PM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>
> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
I wasn't there yet. "Alouatta" is feminine (there's a species
/A. nigerrima/), so it would have been "muslima".
--
Jerry Friedman
> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> > > * Paul Epstein:
> > > > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > > > An ongoing thread went like this:
> > > >
> > > > I said:
> > > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > > > one-handed.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Blake then said:
> > > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > > > allouatta muslimsis.
> > > >
> > > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> > > >
> > > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> > > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
> > >
> > > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> > > feeling.
...
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:19:03 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> > > * Paul Epstein:
> > > > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread so that
> > > > it doesn't get lost in a morass of subthreads.
> > > > An ongoing thread went like this:
> > > >
> > > > I said:
> > > > I've also observed monkeys (I forget which species) who fed themselves
> > > > one-handed.
> > > >
> > > > Ken Blake then said:
> > > > If they fed themselves with their right hands, they were probably
> > > > allouatta muslimsis.
> > > >
> > > > And since I was unable to find any reference to this species, I said:
> > > > I've never heard of that species. It was like 90% using their right hand,
> > > > 10% using their left, just like humans do when they eat one-handed.
> > > > When I googled this, "muslimsis" didn't show up but "alouatta" did.
> > > >
> > > > Then Quinn made the utterly brilliant reply:
> > > > You might want to google for "whoosh" next.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone hazard a guess as to WTF Quinn means??
> > > > Of course, I did google for "whoosh" but that didn't enlighten me.
> > > See <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whoosh#Interjection>
> > >
> > > Btw, I'd have named the species "A. muslimensis", but that's just by
> > > feeling.
> Incidentally, I doubt "muslimensis" is good Latin. As far as I know,
> -ensis refers to geographic origin. With some help from the Latin
> Wikipedia, I see John Paul II used "muslimus".
>
> https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_14091995_ecclesia-in-africa.html
/A. nigerrima/), so it would have been "muslima".
--
Jerry Friedman
bruce bowser
Nov 21, 2022, 1:49:34 PM11/21/22
to
Jerry Friedman
Nov 21, 2022, 1:59:51 PM11/21/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 5:43:47 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 19/11/2022 9:57 am, Pamela wrote:
> > On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
> >> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
...
> On 19/11/2022 9:57 am, Pamela wrote:
> > On 20:55 18 Nov 2022, Paul Epstein said:
> >> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 7:46:07 PM UTC, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> >>> muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> >>> /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
> >> Yes, I was. I didn't expect that this discussion would veer into
> >> anti-Islam racism. When I saw that quote, I assumed that this was a
> >> discussion about ancestors of our species.
> >>
> >> As I alluded to in my previous posting in this chain, India is
> >> unfortunately providing many horrific examples of where anti-Islam
> >> prejudice can lead.
> >
> > Is Islam a race?
>
> And of course the answer is "no".
against groups of people.
The possibly amusing thing here is that the troll [*] who mentioned
"Homo muslimensis" seems to believe, if you take him literally, that
Islam is not only a race but a different species.
[*] I believe I recognized his name from trolling posts here and
elsewhere.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Nov 21, 2022, 2:02:31 PM11/21/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 7:30:07 AM UTC-7, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-11-18, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
...
> On 2022-11-18, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:30:00 AM UTC-7, Paul Epstein wrote:
> >> "muslimensis" is the name of an ancestor of modern humans, I think,
> >> so I don't think it's what Ken meant.
> > ...
> >
> > You may have been misled by a nasty on-line suggestion that "Homo
> > muslimensis" was trying to do to /Homo sapiens/ in Europe what
> > /Homo sapiens/ did to the Neanderthals.
> "Great Replacement" drivel?
click.
--
Jerry Friedman
bil...@shaw.ca
Nov 21, 2022, 2:23:45 PM11/21/22
to
> A baby seal walks into a club...
bill
Paul Wolff
Nov 21, 2022, 3:01:17 PM11/21/22
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022, at 10:28:50, Jerry Friedman posted:
The whole meaning of tolerance or toleration is putting up with
something that is imperfect from your point of view. How wide that
imperfection goes before you will cease to tolerate it must surely vary
from one sort of imperfection to another. So if you try to say of
someone that they are more or less tolerant than another person, that
only makes sense if you specify the kind of imperfection you are talking
about - and the amount of tolerance shown among a group of people must
vary according to what it is that they are tolerating.
I may be highly intolerant of rudeness towards servants, but most
tolerant of rudeness towards people who treat public highways as car
parks. Someone else may take the opposite line. My tolerance band may be
wide in one instance and narrow in the other. The someone else may be
differently tolerant in each case. Which of us is the more tolerant
person? And we haven't started yet to compare on racism, or on cultural
appropriation, or on table manners.
>And that intolerant
>people include the politically correct and others, unless you have
>an unusually broad definition of "politically correct".
>
I don't need to go on.
--
Paul
>On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:24:58 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
>> > On 19/11/2022 10:29, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> >> On 18/11/2022 7:17 pm, Paul Epstein wrote:
>> >>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:41:31 PM UTC, Bebercito wrote:
>> On 19/11/2022 11:34 am, occam wrote:
>> > On 19/11/2022 10:29, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> >> On 18/11/2022 7:17 pm, Paul Epstein wrote:
>> >>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:41:31 PM UTC, Bebercito wrote:
something that is imperfect from your point of view. How wide that
imperfection goes before you will cease to tolerate it must surely vary
from one sort of imperfection to another. So if you try to say of
someone that they are more or less tolerant than another person, that
only makes sense if you specify the kind of imperfection you are talking
about - and the amount of tolerance shown among a group of people must
vary according to what it is that they are tolerating.
I may be highly intolerant of rudeness towards servants, but most
tolerant of rudeness towards people who treat public highways as car
parks. Someone else may take the opposite line. My tolerance band may be
wide in one instance and narrow in the other. The someone else may be
differently tolerant in each case. Which of us is the more tolerant
person? And we haven't started yet to compare on racism, or on cultural
appropriation, or on table manners.
>And that intolerant
>people include the politically correct and others, unless you have
>an unusually broad definition of "politically correct".
>
--
Paul
Paul Epstein
Nov 21, 2022, 6:17:55 PM11/21/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:17:24 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
> * Paul Epstein:
>
> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I learned
> it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I believe the
> reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling about a person.
> Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the post, but seeing that
> subject line did raise an eyebrow.
...
> * Paul Epstein:
>
> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I learned
> it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I believe the
> reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling about a person.
> Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the post, but seeing that
> subject line did raise an eyebrow.
Ok, my apologies. I won't do it again. I actually didn't know about that rule
of etiquette, but it does make sense as being a good etiquette rule.
Your post about my reaction [something like "did you google 'whoosh'? "]
did wind me up the wrong way, but that's not an excuse.
In rec.games.backgammon, I think it's considered ok to use other posters'
first names in a subject title, but this is always done in a friendly and jokey
way to raise interesting questions about previous posts.
For example, someone might open a thread there with the title: "Paul would
call this a blitz cube."
Anyway, I was wrong. My apologies. Mea culpa etc.
Paul Epstein
Tony Cooper
Nov 21, 2022, 11:02:20 PM11/21/22
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 15:17:52 -0800 (PST), Paul Epstein
<peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:17:24 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Paul Epstein:
>>
>> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
>> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I learned
>> it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I believe the
>> reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling about a person.
>> Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the post, but seeing that
>> subject line did raise an eyebrow.
>...
>
>Ok, my apologies. I won't do it again. I actually didn't know about that rule
>of etiquette, but it does make sense as being a good etiquette rule.
It is done, though, when it it appears as "PING (name)". That's a
<peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:17:24 PM UTC, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Paul Epstein:
>>
>> > Quinn said something that I think deserves its own thread
>> Let me point out that part of traditional Usenet netiquette as I learned
>> it is not to put a poster's name in the subject line. I believe the
>> reason is that it's often used when someone is trolling about a person.
>> Knowing you, I didn't expect that when opening the post, but seeing that
>> subject line did raise an eyebrow.
>...
>
>Ok, my apologies. I won't do it again. I actually didn't know about that rule
>of etiquette, but it does make sense as being a good etiquette rule.
signal to (name) that the post is directly intended for that person.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.
lar3ryca
Nov 21, 2022, 11:03:49 PM11/21/22
to
On 2022-11-21 13:23, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>
>> A baby seal walks into a club...
>
> "Waddle you have?" said the bartender.
A termite walks into a bar and asks, "Is the bar tender here?"
>
>> A baby seal walks into a club...
>
> "Waddle you have?" said the bartender.
--
The older I get, the smarter I was.
Dingbat
Nov 21, 2022, 11:23:50 PM11/21/22
to
different and superior species.
>
For comparison:
It says here that some call the Jews the Chosen not to say
that they are chosen but to call them supremacist.
>
What Does Being the 'Chosen People' Mean? NOT ... - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTlbesmUjcM
Dingbat
Nov 22, 2022, 1:01:35 AM11/22/22
to
containing Homo Islamicus is authored by Muslims and
published by the Islamic journal of Finance:
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/IJIF-05-2021-0102/full/html
It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
Bertel Lund Hansen
Nov 22, 2022, 2:15:06 AM11/22/22
to
Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
--
Bertel
Richard Heathfield
Nov 22, 2022, 2:23:31 AM11/22/22
to
I'm of the kind that thinks people who are offended should be
adult enough to deal with it without intruding upon other
people's freedom.
Richard Heathfield
Nov 22, 2022, 2:25:29 AM11/22/22
to
agreement with the above. <AOL>, so to speak.
Peter Moylan
Nov 22, 2022, 6:12:32 AM11/22/22
to
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Richard Heathfield
Nov 22, 2022, 6:26:14 AM11/22/22
to
On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>
>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>
>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>
> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>
>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>
>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>
> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
and death."
Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
bound by religious law.
Peter Moylan
Nov 22, 2022, 8:49:53 AM11/22/22
to
On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>
>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>> usual without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools
>>>> or scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>
>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>
>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who
> are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the
> Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and
> death."
The "law of sin and death" is so vague that it is not clear that it
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>
>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>> usual without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools
>>>> or scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>
>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>
>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who
> are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the
> Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and
> death."
covers usury. Our knowledge of mediaeval times, though, make it clear
that one could only borrow from Jews, because Christians - who could not
charge interest - were unwilling to make loans.
> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> bound by religious law.
interest, but they chose not to.
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 22, 2022, 10:33:41 AM11/22/22
to
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:12:32 AM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> > Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>
> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
What are you referring to?
> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> > Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>
> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
occam
Nov 22, 2022, 10:49:09 AM11/22/22
to
Banks are not a match for Muslim Banks which neither charge nor pay
interests.
Peter T. Daniels
Nov 22, 2022, 11:06:03 AM11/22/22
to
or ecclesiastical prohibition of lending at interest, kindly cite it.
Sam Plusnet
Nov 22, 2022, 1:37:47 PM11/22/22
to
On 22-Nov-22 11:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>
>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>
>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>
>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are
> in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who
> gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death."
>
> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not bound
> by religious law.
And hence not bound by the strictures contained in the Old Testament?
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>
>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>
>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>
>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are
> in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who
> gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death."
>
> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not bound
> by religious law.
So, if Jesus said nothing at all about gay people (AIUI), then
Christians have absolutely no business being hostile towards gay people.
There are more than a few out there who need to read the memo.
--
Sam Plusnet
Richard Heathfield
Nov 22, 2022, 2:08:45 PM11/22/22
to
On 22/11/2022 1:49 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>>> usual without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools
>>>>> or scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>
>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>
>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>
>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>> who
>> are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the
>> Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and
>> death."
>
> The "law of sin and death" is so vague that it is not clear that it
> covers usury.
I suppose that depends on the Christian. I have always considered
> On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>>> usual without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools
>>>>> or scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>
>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>
>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>
>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>> who
>> are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the
>> Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and
>> death."
>
> The "law of sin and death" is so vague that it is not clear that it
> covers usury.
it to "cover" a multitude.
> Our knowledge of mediaeval times, though, make it
> clear
> that one could only borrow from Jews, because Christians - who
> could not
> charge interest - were unwilling to make loans.
>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
>> bound by religious law.
>
> Quite right. They were free to lend to fellow Christians at zero
> interest, but they chose not to.
Jerry Friedman
Nov 22, 2022, 2:27:16 PM11/22/22
to
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 12:08:45 PM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 1:49 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
...
> On 22/11/2022 1:49 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> >> bound by religious law.
> >
> > Quite right. They were free to lend to fellow Christians at zero
> > interest, but they chose not to.
> I have lent at 0% interest (and been repaid without having to chase).
(Luke 6:34-36).
--
Jerry Friedman
Transition Zone
Nov 22, 2022, 2:39:47 PM11/22/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 2:23:45 PM UTC-5, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > A baby seal walks into a club...
> "Waddle you have?" said the bartender.
Q: What kind of music do seals hate?
> > A baby seal walks into a club...
> "Waddle you have?" said the bartender.
A: Orca-stras !
Jerry Friedman
Nov 22, 2022, 3:01:30 PM11/22/22
to
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:26:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >>
> >>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >>
> >> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >
> > Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
> and death."
>
> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> bound by religious law.
How does that work with Luke 18:18-22, or Acts 15:28-29, or the other
> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >>
> >>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >>
> >> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >
> > Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
> and death."
>
> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> bound by religious law.
passages where Jesus and the apostles tell people what to do and
what not to do?
--
Jerry Friedman
Transition Zone
Nov 22, 2022, 3:47:21 PM11/22/22
to
1) Follow an agreed-upon doctrine
2) Face consequences.
Paul Wolff
Nov 22, 2022, 6:40:48 PM11/22/22
to
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022, at 12:01:27, Jerry Friedman posted:
The immediate question is this: what makes a religious law?
(I didn't see a law in the Luke passage, but instructions on how to live
well. And the Acts passage about the Christians in Antioch seems to me
an attempt to preserve Judaism in an early Christian community - which
didn't catch on. In fact, so much did it not catch on, that two or three
hundred years later that dreadful man John, bishop in Antioch, known as
Chrysostom the golden-tongued for his artful preaching, became famous
for his hateful sermons against the Jews, and was declared a saint in
consequence; an honour he still holds in the Christian church today.)
--
Paul W
(I didn't see a law in the Luke passage, but instructions on how to live
well. And the Acts passage about the Christians in Antioch seems to me
an attempt to preserve Judaism in an early Christian community - which
didn't catch on. In fact, so much did it not catch on, that two or three
hundred years later that dreadful man John, bishop in Antioch, known as
Chrysostom the golden-tongued for his artful preaching, became famous
for his hateful sermons against the Jews, and was declared a saint in
consequence; an honour he still holds in the Christian church today.)
--
Paul W
Peter Moylan
Nov 22, 2022, 7:35:47 PM11/22/22
to
was changed about 100 years ago.
There is a good summary in the "Christianity" section of
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury>
As nearly as I can tell, the Vatican switched its position in 1917, by
allowing church monies to be used to accrue interest.
Jerry Friedman
Nov 22, 2022, 8:53:01 PM11/22/22
to
On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:40:48 PM UTC-7, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022, at 12:01:27, Jerry Friedman posted:
> >On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:26:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> > On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> >> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >> >>
> >> >>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >> >>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >> >>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >> >>
> >> >> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >> >
> >> > Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> >> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> >> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
> >> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
> >> and death."
> >>
> >> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> >> bound by religious law.
> >
> >How does that work with Luke 18:18-22, or Acts 15:28-29, or the other
> >passages where Jesus and the apostles tell people what to do and
> >what not to do?
> >
> The immediate question is this: what makes a religious law?
Yes.
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022, at 12:01:27, Jerry Friedman posted:
> >On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:26:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> > On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> >> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >> >>
> >> >>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
> >> >>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >> >>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >> >>
> >> >> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >> >
> >> > Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> >> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> >> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
> >> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
> >> and death."
> >>
> >> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
> >> bound by religious law.
> >
> >How does that work with Luke 18:18-22, or Acts 15:28-29, or the other
> >passages where Jesus and the apostles tell people what to do and
> >what not to do?
> >
> The immediate question is this: what makes a religious law?
> (I didn't see a law in the Luke passage, but instructions on how to live
> well.
And Jesus says that if you break them, you get the eternal death penalty.
That sounds like a religious law to me.
> And the Acts passage about the Christians in Antioch seems to me
> an attempt to preserve Judaism in an early Christian community - which
> didn't catch on.
"burden" them with only a few "requirements" or "necessary things"
from the Mosaic law, and if the Antiochenes complied, they would do
well. Again the requirements sound like laws to me.
For some reason a great many Christians have ignored the dietary
restrictions, going so far as to eat black pudding. Are they supposed
to apply only in Antioch?
(A great many have also flouted the prohibition on "sexual immorality" or
"fornication" or whatever it is, but they probably knew that what they were
doing was considered sinful.)
> In fact, so much did it not catch on, that two or three
> hundred years later that dreadful man John, bishop in Antioch, known as
> Chrysostom the golden-tongued for his artful preaching, became famous
> for his hateful sermons against the Jews, and was declared a saint in
> consequence; an honour he still holds in the Christian church today.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 12:36:35 AM11/23/22
to
On 22/11/2022 6:37 pm, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 22-Nov-22 11:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>>> usual
>>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>
>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>
>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>
>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law
>> of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of
>> sin and death."
>>
>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are
>> not bound by religious law.
>
> And hence not bound by the strictures contained in the Old
> Testament?
Why should they be, any more than you are?
> On 22-Nov-22 11:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
>>>>> usual
>>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>
>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>
>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>
>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law
>> of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of
>> sin and death."
>>
>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are
>> not bound by religious law.
>
> And hence not bound by the strictures contained in the Old
> Testament?
> So, if Jesus said nothing at all about gay people (AIUI), then
> Christians have absolutely no business being hostile towards gay
> people.
> There are more than a few out there who need to read the memo.
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 12:37:41 AM11/23/22
to
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 12:43:49 AM11/23/22
to
instead of slavishly following minutiae. "Work out your own
salvation with fear and trembling" - Philippians 2:12.
It's like crossing the road. You can do that, right? Do you still
need Tufty Club? Really?
Peter Moylan
Nov 23, 2022, 1:08:50 AM11/23/22
to
evoke fear and trembling.
Bebercito
Nov 23, 2022, 1:59:44 AM11/23/22
to
Le mercredi 23 novembre 2022 à 06:36:35 UTC+1, Richard Heathfield a écrit :
> On 22/11/2022 6:37 pm, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > On 22-Nov-22 11:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
> >>>>> usual
> >>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >>>>
> >>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >>>
> >>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> >>
> >> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> >> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law
> >> of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of
> >> sin and death."
> >>
> >> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are
> >> not bound by religious law.
> >
> > And hence not bound by the strictures contained in the Old
> > Testament?
> Why should they be, any more than you are?
> > So, if Jesus said nothing at all about gay people (AIUI), then
> > Christians have absolutely no business being hostile towards gay
> > people.
Isn't Christianity in general about all that has been explicitly designated
> On 22/11/2022 6:37 pm, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> > On 22-Nov-22 11:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the
> >>>>> usual
> >>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
> >>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
> >>>>
> >>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
> >>>
> >>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
> >>
> >> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
> >> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law
> >> of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of
> >> sin and death."
> >>
> >> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are
> >> not bound by religious law.
> >
> > And hence not bound by the strictures contained in the Old
> > Testament?
> Why should they be, any more than you are?
> > So, if Jesus said nothing at all about gay people (AIUI), then
> > Christians have absolutely no business being hostile towards gay
> > people.
as diverging from Judaism, since it proceeds therefrom? And if "Jesus
said nothing at all about gay people", doesn't the view on them expressed
in Leviticus as "homosexuality is an abomination" apply "by default" to
Christians?
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 2:15:49 AM11/23/22
to
reach without consulting the small print of a Tufty Club leaflet.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 23, 2022, 2:45:38 AM11/23/22
to
On 2022-11-23 07:15:45 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:
> Tufty Club
I remember the Green Cross Code, but I don't think I've ever heard of
the Tufty Club before.
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
> Tufty Club
I remember the Green Cross Code, but I don't think I've ever heard of
the Tufty Club before.
--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 3:08:24 AM11/23/22
to
On 23/11/2022 7:45 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-11-23 07:15:45 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:
>
>> Tufty Club
>
> I remember the Green Cross Code, but I don't think I've ever
> heard of the Tufty Club before.
Official site:
> On 2022-11-23 07:15:45 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:
>
>> Tufty Club
>
> I remember the Green Cross Code, but I don't think I've ever
> heard of the Tufty Club before.
https://www.rospa.com/about-us/history/tufty
I am delighted to report that even though this safety-conscious
squirrel is now 69 years old "Tufty has not retired! In 2018, his
image was incorporated on to RoSPA’s Keeping Kids Safe packs
which are providing accident prevention tips and tools to help
thousands of families with under-fives, and he was also the
subject of some safety activities for children at an exhibition
to mark RoSPA’s centenary in 2017".
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 3:28:13 AM11/23/22
to
On 23/11/2022 06:37, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 7:27 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 12:08:45 PM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield
>> wrote:
>>> On 22/11/2022 1:49 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
>>>>> bound by religious law.
>>>>
>>>> Quite right. They were free to lend to fellow Christians at zero
>>>> interest, but they chose not to.
>>
>>> I have lent at 0% interest (and been repaid without having to chase).
>>
>> That may be OK as long as you didn't expect the debtor to repay you
>> (Luke 6:34-36).
>
> I was open to that possibility, yes.
>
If you ever decide to run a Building Society, let me know.
> On 22/11/2022 7:27 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 12:08:45 PM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield
>> wrote:
>>> On 22/11/2022 1:49 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 22/11/22 22:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
>>>>> bound by religious law.
>>>>
>>>> Quite right. They were free to lend to fellow Christians at zero
>>>> interest, but they chose not to.
>>
>>> I have lent at 0% interest (and been repaid without having to chase).
>>
>> That may be OK as long as you didn't expect the debtor to repay you
>> (Luke 6:34-36).
>
> I was open to that possibility, yes.
>
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 3:43:46 AM11/23/22
to
On 23/11/2022 06:43, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/11/2022 8:01 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:26:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield
>> wrote:
>>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>>
>>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>>> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
>>> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
>>> and death."
>>>
>>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
>>> bound by religious law.
>>
>> How does that work with Luke 18:18-22, or Acts 15:28-29, or the other
>> passages where Jesus and the apostles tell people what to do and
>> what not to do?
>
> Grown-ups are expected to be able to work it out for themselves instead
> of slavishly following minutiae. "Work out your own salvation with fear
> and trembling" - Philippians 2:12.
>
That must me the tenth Bible reference I have chased up in this thread.
> On 22/11/2022 8:01 pm, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 4:26:14 AM UTC-7, Richard Heathfield
>> wrote:
>>> On 22/11/2022 11:12 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 22/11/22 18:15, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Den 22.11.2022 kl. 07.01 skrev Dingbat:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to identify Islamic finance as different from the usual
>>>>>> without necessarily asserting that non-Muslims are fools or
>>>>>> scoundrels to avail themselves of other kinds of finance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Muslims are not allowed to pay or take interests.
>>>>
>>>> Neither are Christians. Or has that rule been changed?
>>> Romans 8:1-2 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
>>> who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of
>>> the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin
>>> and death."
>>>
>>> Christians are of course subject to secular law, but they are not
>>> bound by religious law.
>>
>> How does that work with Luke 18:18-22, or Acts 15:28-29, or the other
>> passages where Jesus and the apostles tell people what to do and
>> what not to do?
>
> Grown-ups are expected to be able to work it out for themselves instead
> of slavishly following minutiae. "Work out your own salvation with fear
> and trembling" - Philippians 2:12.
>
Question: Would you program in a computer language whose instructions
were vague (e.g. "the law of sin and death") and led to contradictory
actions?
The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
Bertel Lund Hansen
Nov 23, 2022, 3:50:16 AM11/23/22
to
Den 23.11.2022 kl. 09.43 skrev occam:
> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
How does that differ from any other discussion we have (disregarding
> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
"Bible")?
--
Bertel
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 4:02:28 AM11/23/22
to
do not normally invoke let-out-clauses like ("in Denmark")? We are all
sinners in the domain of AUE, and I believe Heathfield has been sent
here to suffer for *our* sins.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 23, 2022, 4:10:31 AM11/23/22
to
advertisements for banks. In 2002 there seemed to be fewer, but still
plenty. I don't remember being in any other Muslim country. Anyway, if
they don't charge interest they must get their money somehow, maybe by
having a stiff fee for having an account.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 23, 2022, 4:12:59 AM11/23/22
to
On 2022-11-23 09:02:22 +0000, occam said:
> On 23/11/2022 09:50, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 23.11.2022 kl. 09.43 skrev occam:
>>
>>> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
>>> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
>>> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
>>
>> How does that differ from any other discussion we have (disregarding
>> "Bible")?
>>
>
> Because those discussions are normally based on rational arguments and
> do not normally invoke let-out-clauses like ("in Denmark")?
Rey used to complain that Bertel started every post with "In Denmark
> On 23/11/2022 09:50, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 23.11.2022 kl. 09.43 skrev occam:
>>
>>> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
>>> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
>>> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
>>
>> How does that differ from any other discussion we have (disregarding
>> "Bible")?
>>
>
> Because those discussions are normally based on rational arguments and
> do not normally invoke let-out-clauses like ("in Denmark")?
we...". He seems to do it less now.
> We are all
> sinners in the domain of AUE, and I believe Heathfield has been sent
> here to suffer for *our* sins.
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 4:28:38 AM11/23/22
to
contribution "to the faith", and those who safeguard it.
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 4:36:42 AM11/23/22
to
On 23/11/2022 10:12, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-11-23 09:02:22 +0000, occam said:
>
>> On 23/11/2022 09:50, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 23.11.2022 kl. 09.43 skrev occam:
>>>
>>>> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
>>>> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
>>>> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
>>>
>>> How does that differ from any other discussion we have (disregarding
>>> "Bible")?
>>>
>>
>> Because those discussions are normally based on rational arguments and
>> do not normally invoke let-out-clauses like ("in Denmark")?
>
> Rey used to complain that Bertel started every post with "In Denmark
> we...".
And he was right. (Was Ray the reason why Bertel went AWOL from the
> On 2022-11-23 09:02:22 +0000, occam said:
>
>> On 23/11/2022 09:50, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 23.11.2022 kl. 09.43 skrev occam:
>>>
>>>> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
>>>> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
>>>> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
>>>
>>> How does that differ from any other discussion we have (disregarding
>>> "Bible")?
>>>
>>
>> Because those discussions are normally based on rational arguments and
>> do not normally invoke let-out-clauses like ("in Denmark")?
>
> Rey used to complain that Bertel started every post with "In Denmark
> we...".
group for a while?)
>He seems to do it less now.
of which he is not certain. "In Denmark" appears to be his security
blanket (cf Linus and Charlie Brown).
Bertel Lund Hansen
Nov 23, 2022, 4:55:09 AM11/23/22
to
Den 23.11.2022 kl. 10.10 skrev Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> plenty. I don't remember being in any other Muslim country. Anyway, if
> they don't charge interest they must get their money somehow, maybe by
> having a stiff fee for having an account.
They have a method. If I remember correctly, they loan a larger amount
> plenty. I don't remember being in any other Muslim country. Anyway, if
> they don't charge interest they must get their money somehow, maybe by
> having a stiff fee for having an account.
than is paid out to them.
--
Bertel
Bertel Lund Hansen
Nov 23, 2022, 4:56:12 AM11/23/22
to
Den 23.11.2022 kl. 10.12 skrev Athel Cornish-Bowden:
> Rey used to complain that Bertel started every post with "In Denmark
> we...". He seems to do it less now.
Yeah, I hide it further down in the text.
> Rey used to complain that Bertel started every post with "In Denmark
> we...". He seems to do it less now.
--
Bertel
Bertel Lund Hansen
Nov 23, 2022, 5:01:52 AM11/23/22
to
Den 23.11.2022 kl. 10.36 skrev occam:
> And he was right. (Was Ray the reason why Bertel went AWOL from the
> group for a while?)
No. Rey (I think that is the spelling) was a pain in the ass, but I knew
> And he was right. (Was Ray the reason why Bertel went AWOL from the
> group for a while?)
that from the German group already.
> Not less enough. I notice it. Every time he makes a dubious statement,
> of which he is not certain. "In Denmark" appears to be his security
> blanket (cf Linus and Charlie Brown).
it can shed light on English language. My feeling is that I don't write
more about Danish culture than y'all write about your areas. Is it wrong
just because it's not an English area?
Or is it really true that I do it too much? I may be wrong about that.
--
Bertel
occam
Nov 23, 2022, 5:24:52 AM11/23/22
to
"why?".
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 5:34:11 AM11/23/22
to
Richard Heathfield
Nov 23, 2022, 5:39:12 AM11/23/22
to
> The real question: Why are we indulging in a Bible quote-based
> conversation here, knowing full well that the source material is
> contradictory, and vague, and open to willful misinterpretations?
The source material is indeed often wilfully misinterpreted, but
does not require it.
Peter Moylan
Nov 23, 2022, 6:00:08 AM11/23/22
to
Australia. In my opinion that's perfectly reasonable. Part of AUE
business is to look at things that are different in different countries.
The language in particular, of course, but some non-language details are
also of interest. I miss the insights we used to get from Steve Hayes
and from our two Irish RRs. We don't have as much diversity now as we
used to have.
One of my primary school classmates had spent a couple of years in
Malaya, and he chipped into every discussion with "In Malaya ...". We
found that annoying after a while; but it would be a lot more acceptable
in this newsgroup.
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