I need wome help with these lyrics of the song "The Witch of the West-mer-lands", by Archie Fisher.............
Suzanne LaPierre
The following are the lyrics of the song. If you have access to
Napster you can probably download his recording of it. Stan Rogers
also did a version called the Witch of Westmoreland.
I'm fascinated by the lyrics. I'm not familiar with some of the words
(which I've retyped in CAPS). I'd appreciate any help with
"translations" and etymology of the words and phrases in capital
letters, and any other thoughts as well.
I think I know what some of the words mean but would like a second
opinion.
Thanks.........
.....................
THE WITCH OF THE WEST-MER-LANDS
Pale was the wounded knight
That bore the ROWAN SHIELD
Loud and cruel were the raven's cries
That feasted on the field, saying:
BECK water, cold and clear,
Will never clean you wound.
There's none but the Maid of the Winding MERE
Can make thee hale and soond.
So COURSE well, my brindled hounds,
And fetch me the mountain hare
WHOSE COAT IS AS GREY AS THE WASTWATER
Or as white as the lily fair, who said
Green moss and heather bands
Will never staunch the flood.
There's none but the Witch of the WEST-MER-LANDS
Can save thy dear life's blood.
So turn, turn you stallion's head
Till his red mane flies in the wind
And the rider of the moon gaes by
And the bright star falls behind.
And clear was the PALEY moon
When his shadow passed him by;
And below the hill was the brightest star
When he heard the HOULET cry, saying
Why do you ride this way,
And wharfore cam' ye here?
I seek the Witch of the West-mer-lands
That dwells by the winding mere.
Then fly free your good grey hawk
To gather the golden rod,
And face your horse intae the clouds
Above yon gay green wood.
And it's weary by ULLSWATER
And the misty BREAK FERN
Till through the cleft o' the Kirkstane Pass
The winding water lay.
He said, Lie down, my brindled hound,
And rest my good grey hawk,
And thee, my steed, may graze thy fill,
For I must dismount and walk.
But come when you hear my horn
And answer swift the call,
For I fear e'er the sun shall rise this morn
You will serve me best of all.
And down to the water's brim
He's borne the rowan shield,
And the golden rod he has cast in
To see what the lake might yield.
And wet rose she from the lake,
And fast and fleet GAED she,
One half the form of a maiden fair
With a jet black mare's body.
And loud, long, and shrill he blew
And his steed was by his side;
High overhead his grey hawk flew
And swiftly he did ride, saying:
Course well, my brindled hounds,
And fetch me the jet black mare.
Stoop and strike, my good grey hawk,
And bring me the maiden fair. She said:
Pray sheath thy silvery sword,
Lay down thy rowan shield,
For I see by the briny blood that flows
You've been wounded in the field.
And she stood in a gown of the velvet blue,
Bound 'round with a silver chain.
She's kissed his pale lips aince and twice
And three time 'round again.
And she's bound his wound with the golden rod;
Full fast in her arms he lay,
And he has risen hale and soond
Wi' the sun high in the day. She said:
Ride with you brindled hounds at heel
And your good grey hawk in hand.
There's nane can harm a knight wha's lain
With the Witch of the West-mer-land.
Matti Lamprhey
>
> The following are the lyrics of the song. If you have access to
> Napster you can probably download his recording of it. Stan Rogers
> also did a version called the Witch of Westmoreland.
>
> I'm fascinated by the lyrics. I'm not familiar with some of the words
> (which I've retyped in CAPS). I'd appreciate any help with
> "translations" and etymology of the words and phrases in capital
> letters, and any other thoughts as well.
>
> I think I know what some of the words mean but would like a second
> opinion.
The words evoke the English county of Westmorland (no second 'e' -- a
common mistake). It forms part of the English Lake District, and the
present administrative county of Cumbria. I'll try to explain your
capitalized bits below...
>
> Thanks.........
>
> .....................
>
>
> THE WITCH OF THE WEST-MER-LANDS
>
> Pale was the wounded knight
> That bore the ROWAN SHIELD
"Rowan" is a name for the tree also called the Mountain Ash. I don't know
why a shield should be so called, though.
> Loud and cruel were the raven's cries
> That feasted on the field, saying:
>
> BECK water, cold and clear,
In that locality the mountain streams are called becks...
> Will never clean you wound.
> There's none but the Maid of the Winding MERE
...and the lakes are called meres. The largest is Windermere, and "Winding
Mere" probably alludes to that.
> Can make thee hale and soond.
>
> So COURSE well, my brindled hounds,
Hare hunting with hounds is usually known as "hare coursing".
> And fetch me the mountain hare
> WHOSE COAT IS AS GREY AS THE WASTWATER
Wastwater is another of the lakes -- said to be the deepest in England.
> Or as white as the lily fair, who said
>
> Green moss and heather bands
> Will never staunch the flood.
> There's none but the Witch of the WEST-MER-LANDS
You know Westmorland now -- I don't think West-mer-land is etymologically
valuable.
> Can save thy dear life's blood.
>
> So turn, turn you stallion's head
> Till his red mane flies in the wind
> And the rider of the moon gaes by
> And the bright star falls behind.
>
> And clear was the PALEY moon
Typo?
> When his shadow passed him by;
> And below the hill was the brightest star
> When he heard the HOULET cry, saying
Don't know "houlet" at all.
>
> Why do you ride this way,
> And wharfore cam' ye here?
> I seek the Witch of the West-mer-lands
> That dwells by the winding mere.
>
> Then fly free your good grey hawk
> To gather the golden rod,
> And face your horse intae the clouds
> Above yon gay green wood.
>
> And it's weary by ULLSWATER
Ullswater is another large lake there.
> And the misty BREAK FERN
Probably a reference to bracken.
> Till through the cleft o' the Kirkstane Pass
> The winding water lay.
>
> He said, Lie down, my brindled hound,
> And rest my good grey hawk,
> And thee, my steed, may graze thy fill,
> For I must dismount and walk.
>
> But come when you hear my horn
> And answer swift the call,
> For I fear e'er the sun shall rise this morn
> You will serve me best of all.
>
> And down to the water's brim
> He's borne the rowan shield,
> And the golden rod he has cast in
> To see what the lake might yield.
>
> And wet rose she from the lake,
> And fast and fleet GAED she,
A Scottish word meaning "went"
You could try posting this to uk.local.cumbria, Suzanne.
Matti
Tom Deveson
>> When he heard the HOULET cry, saying
>
>Don't know "houlet" at all.
I would guess it's meant to be 'howlet' -- a version of 'owlet' meaning
a baby owl, a little owl or just an owl.
The Witches in *Macbeth* put a 'howlet's wing' into the cauldron.
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Tom Deveson
>That bore the ROWAN SHIELD
>
>"Rowan" is a name for the tree also called the Mountain Ash. I don't know
>why a shield should be so called, though.
Rowan was thought to be the tree that offered the best protection
against enchantment and witchcraft. There was an old Scots rhyme:
"Rowan, lamer [amber] and red threid
Pits witches to their speed [drive witches away]."
These are all reddish things -- rowan berries are red. Rowan staffs and
crosses were considered effective too. Rowan trees were often planted
outside Highland homes for protection.
There's information on this in *A Dictionary of Fairies* by Katherine
Briggs (1976). She was a great expert on folklore.
Tom
[PS Matti, this sounds as if I'm offering pedantic correction to your
already very helpful glosses. No such intention, I only saw the original
questions just now.]
--
Tom Deveson
Franke
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
Probably just a way to add a syllable to "pale".
> > When his shadow passed him by;
> > And below the hill was the brightest star
> > When he heard the HOULET cry, saying
>
> Don't know "houlet" at all.
Probably "owlet" -- baby owl. Checking the OED, "houlet" is an obsolete form of
"howlet", which means "owl, baby owl".
John Varela
wrote:
> "Suzanne LaPierre" <suaznne_...@hotmail.com> wrote...
> > Pale was the wounded knight
> > That bore the ROWAN SHIELD
>
> "Rowan" is a name for the tree also called the Mountain Ash. I don't know
> why a shield should be so called, though.
According to Robert Graves: [The rowan] is also the tree most widely used in
the British Isles as a prophylactic against lightning and witches' charms of
all sorts: for example, bewitched horses can be controlled only with a rowan
whip.
So if one were going to mess around with witches, a rowan shield might be a
good thing to have.
--
John Varela
McLean, VA USA
Donna Richoux
> Matti Lamprhey wrote:
[referring to line in ballad:]
> > > And clear was the PALEY moon
> >
> > Typo?
>
> Probably just a way to add a syllable to "pale".
"The paley moon" occurs in "The Garthan Mother's Lullaby" which was
translated from Irish Gaelic, I believe. I assume it is just poetic
convention, but maybe it's dialect.
I see on a Web page that the song appeared in a 1909 book, "Irish
Country Songs," and there it is spelled "paly."
"the paly moon hath brimm'd her cusp in dew."
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
John Dean
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1emlsg5.2o3suw1o3drnoN%tr...@euronet.nl...
Longshot - 'paly' is a term used in heraldry to describe an object divided
by vertical lines where the spaces between are shaded in alternate colours.
So, at a stretch, a paly moon is a heraldic device with clouds / craters /
etc. breaking up the appearance
--
John ''say, 50-1. There's also 'paly-bendy' at 66-1'' Dean -- Oxford
I am anti-spammed -- defrag me to reply
khann
>
> Donna Richoux wrote
> > Franke wrote:
> > > Matti Lamprhey wrote:
> >
> > [referring to line in ballad:]
> >
> > > > > And clear was the PALEY moon
> > > >
> > > > Typo?
> > >
> > > Probably just a way to add a syllable to "pale".
> >
> > "The paley moon" occurs in "The Garthan Mother's Lullaby" which was
> > translated from Irish Gaelic, I believe. I assume it is just poetic
> > convention, but maybe it's dialect.
> >
> > I see on a Web page that the song appeared in a 1909 book, "Irish
> > Country Songs," and there it is spelled "paly."
> >
> > "the paly moon hath brimm'd her cusp in dew."
>
> Longshot - 'paly' is a term used in heraldry to describe an object divided
> by vertical lines where the spaces between are shaded in alternate colours.
> So, at a stretch, a paly moon is a heraldic device with clouds / craters /
> etc. breaking up the appearance
>
But ... how could such a "paley moon" be as "clear" as the song tells us
it is, able to cast the shadow of the knight? But I believe that you are
on the right tack with heraldic language -- consider the rest of the
song.
When I first learned the song it seemed abundantly obvious that the
"paley moon" referred to a bright quarter or half moon -- a moon per
pale, argent et sable. This interpretation would to fit nicely with
Donna's quotation, for only a partial moon would have a cusp to brim
with dew.
The "rowan shield" would seem to refer to the knight's shield marked
with a device of a rowan tree, or some part thereof.
KHann
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
> > "The paley moon" occurs in "The Garthan Mother's Lullaby" which was
> > translated from Irish Gaelic, I believe. I assume it is just poetic
> > convention, but maybe it's dialect.
> >
> > I see on a Web page that the song appeared in a 1909 book, "Irish
> > Country Songs," and there it is spelled "paly."
> >
> > "the paly moon hath brimm'd her cusp in dew."
>
> Longshot - 'paly' is a term used in heraldry to describe an object divided
> by vertical lines where the spaces between are shaded in alternate colours.
> So, at a stretch, a paly moon is a heraldic device with clouds / craters /
> etc. breaking up the appearance
The 1913 Webster's Dictionary has two separate entries for "paly":
Paly
Pal"y (?), a. [From Pale, a.] Pale; wanting color; dim. [Poetic] Shak.
Whittier.
Paly
Pal"y, a. [Cf. F. palé. See Pale a stake.] (Her.) Divided into four or
more equal parts by perpendicular lines, and of two different tinctures
disposed alternately.
John Dean
khann <khann....@this.address.ca> wrote in message
news:3A51D3...@this.address.ca...
And here's a further thought on that :-
'' ROWAN (Sorbus aucuparia)
The Rowan tree (also called Mountain Ash) is long known for aid and
protection against enchantment. Sticks of the Rowan were used to carve Runes
on. It was also used in the art of metal divining. Rowan spays and crosses
were placed over cattle in pens and over homes for protection. Its lovely
red berries feed the birds in winter. The berries have a tiny pentagram on
them. The pentagram is the ancient symbol of protection. The Rowan tree
indicates protection and control of the senses from enchantment and
beguiling. ''
From http://www.tarahill.com/treelore/trees.html
--
John Dean -- Oxford
khann
>
[...]
>
> The 1913 Webster's Dictionary has two separate entries for "paly":
>
> Paly
>
> Pal"y (?), a. [From Pale, a.] Pale; wanting color; dim. [Poetic] Shak.
> Whittier.
>
> Paly
>
> Pal"y, a. [Cf. F. palé. See Pale a stake.] (Her.) Divided into four or
> more equal parts by perpendicular lines, and of two different tinctures
> disposed alternately.
>
I would venture that Webster's 2nd defn is not entirely well-advised as
there is no heraldic requirement for more than two parts divided
vertically.
From SOEDIII:
Paly 1486 ... Her. Said of a shield (or of a bearing) divided palewise.
Palewise 1721 ... Her. In the direction of a pale; vertically.
From Arthur Charles Fox-Davies _The Art of Heraldry, An Encyclopędia of
Armory_ 1904; reprinted 1986:
p.71 The pale is a broad perpendicular band passing from the top of the
escutcheon to the bottom, ... Like all other ordinaries, it is stated to
contain the third part of the area of the shield ...
p.72 When the field is striped vertically it is said to be "paly" of so
many ...
Arms were oftened marshalled by impalement -- two coats of arms
displayed per pale on a single shield. So, on the basis of the heraldic
usage of paly shown in the SOEDIII, the division may be accomplished in
any practical number of divisions from two upwards.
KHann
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >
> [...]
> >
> > The 1913 Webster's Dictionary has two separate entries for "paly":
> >
> > Paly
> >
> > Pal"y (?), a. [From Pale, a.] Pale; wanting color; dim. [Poetic] Shak.
> > Whittier.
> >
> > Paly
> >
> > Pal"y, a. [Cf. F. palé. See Pale a stake.] (Her.) Divided into four or
> > more equal parts by perpendicular lines, and of two different tinctures
> > disposed alternately.
> >
>
> I would venture that Webster's 2nd defn is not entirely well-advised as
> there is no heraldic requirement for more than two parts divided
> vertically.
[snip evidence]
Be that as it may, I'm quite satisfied that the "paly" in the lullaby is
the first one, "pale, dim." And probably in Suzanne's ballad, too.
Seeing the "Shak." citation, I hunted down a working Shakespearean
search engine (MIT's has never come back, but there's another called
"The Works of the Bard") and found these:
King Henry VI, Part ii
Fain would I go to chafe his paly lips
With twenty thousand kisses, and to drain
Upon his face an ocean of salt tears
King Henry V
Fire answers fire, and through their paly flames
Each battle sees the other's umber'd face;
Romeo and Juliet
No warmth, no breath, shall testify thou livest;
The roses in thy lips and cheeks shall fade
To paly ashes, thy eyes' windows fall,
Like death, when he shuts up the day of life;
Good enough for me.
khann
> >
> > The "rowan shield" would seem to refer to the knight's shield marked
> > with a device of a rowan tree, or some part thereof.
> >
> > KHann
>
> And here's a further thought on that :-
>
> '' ROWAN (Sorbus aucuparia)
> The Rowan tree (also called Mountain Ash) is long known for aid and
> protection against enchantment. Sticks of the Rowan were used to carve Runes
> on. It was also used in the art of metal divining. Rowan spays and crosses
> were placed over cattle in pens and over homes for protection. Its lovely
> red berries feed the birds in winter. The berries have a tiny pentagram on
> them. The pentagram is the ancient symbol of protection. The Rowan tree
> indicates protection and control of the senses from enchantment and
> beguiling. ''
>
Quite right, and no doubt the reason the chap took all the trouble to
bear his rowan shield down to the water's brim. But rowan puts witches
off, right? So either the good knight neglected the necessary red thread
or his shield was, as I surmised, a mere depiction of rowan and
therefore powerless as a protection beyond the physical plane. Lucky for
him! If it had been of proper rowan it would have kept the witch at bay
and he would have expired in a briny red flood. As it is he got himself
magically stitched up, laid, and an enchantment of protection against
future wounds. That's not a bad deal in return for a handful of wet
goldenrod.
Rowan is the preferred wood for building butter churns as it prevents
the butter from being "overlooked" by faeries. A whip of rowan is
necessary for controlling bewitched horses. Rowan wood was also used as
the material for one of the three legs of a "witching stool", a proper
stool being made from beech, oak, rowan, and elm.
KHann
khann
>
[...]
>
> Be that as it may, I'm quite satisfied that the "paly" in the lullaby is
> the first one, "pale, dim." And probably in Suzanne's ballad, too.
[snip Bill the Bard quotes because he did not write the song under
examination]
Then how, I ask once again, could so dim a moon cast the necessary
shadows noted in the 5th & 6th verses of the song?
If the moon was so dim as to have its dimness worthy of mention, why
mention it or the shadows improbably cast by its marked lack of
luminosity?
This is not an ancient song, why not contact Archie Fisher and ask him
exactly what _he_ meant?
KHann
Rowan Dingle
>And here's a further thought on that :-
>
>'' ROWAN (Sorbus aucuparia)
> The Rowan tree (also called Mountain Ash) is long known for aid and
>protection against enchantment. Sticks of the Rowan were used to carve Runes
>on. It was also used in the art of metal divining. Rowan spays and crosses
>were placed over cattle in pens and over homes for protection. Its lovely
>red berries feed the birds in winter. The berries have a tiny pentagram on
>them. The pentagram is the ancient symbol of protection. The Rowan tree
>indicates protection and control of the senses from enchantment and
>beguiling. ''
>
>From http://www.tarahill.com/treelore/trees.html
Thus, frankly, 'Rowan Dingle': 'Protect Me From Drink'. ('Dingle' is a
childish West Country word for a drink.) I use an alias because I
sometimes drink too much and post things my sober self is embarrassed
by.
Also: I live in a dingle and there's a rowan tree outside my front door.
(Planted by me, yes, but as a joke. Not a joke about my ex, who was
never in the least bit witch-like. And that's no joke: she wasn't.)
And: I've read somewhere (can't find it) that 'wicken' is or was an
English dialect word for 'rowan tree'; and that one meaning of 'den' is
'dingle', a woody hollow or cleft. Thus my surname, Wicken-(rowan)-den
(dingle), backs the alias up.
However, a more plausible modern translation of my surname is 'small
dairy farm in the forest'; and I'm drinking less these days; and 'Rowan
Dingle' *is* a bit camp, after all.
So I've been considering a new alias for the new millennium:
'Woody Smallholding'.
Whaddya think?
--
Rowan Dingle
(Not entirely sober)
Tom Deveson
>King Henry V
> Fire answers fire, and through their paly flames
> Each battle sees the other's umber'd face;
And now to make things yet more complicated.
The footnote to these lines in the very scholarly Arden edition of 1954
reads:
*paly*] a) pale b) divided by vertical lines with alternate tinctures
(in heraldry)
Molly Mahood, in *Shakespeare's Wordplay* (1957) doesn't cite this one,
but does deal with other Shakespearean puns on pale, as colourless and
as fence.
Tom (with apologies)
--
Tom Deveson
Suzanne LaPierre
So doesn't "beyond the pale" mean something outside civilized
behaviour? Could "paley moon" be a moon that nobody would want to be
under?
tomar
<ma...@totally-official.com> wrote:
>"Suzanne LaPierre" <suaznne_...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>>
>> The following are the lyrics of the song. If you have access to
>> Napster you can probably download his recording of it. Stan Rogers
>> also did a version called the Witch of Westmoreland.
>>
>> I'm fascinated by the lyrics. I'm not familiar with some of the words
>> (which I've retyped in CAPS). I'd appreciate any help with
>> "translations" and etymology of the words and phrases in capital
>> letters, and any other thoughts as well.
>>
>> I think I know what some of the words mean but would like a second
>> opinion.
>
>The words evoke the English county of Westmorland (no second 'e' -- a
>common mistake). It forms part of the English Lake District, and the
>present administrative county of Cumbria. I'll try to explain your
>capitalized bits below...
>
>>
>> Thanks.........
>>
>> .....................
>>
>>
>> THE WITCH OF THE WEST-MER-LANDS
>>
>> Pale was the wounded knight
>> That bore the ROWAN SHIELD
>
>"Rowan" is a name for the tree also called the Mountain Ash. I don't know
>why a shield should be so called, though.
Rowan protects you from witches.
tomar
betty.w...@gmail.com
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>"Beyond the pale" referred to a specific geographical region in 14th century Ireland; it does not apply to the phrase about the "Paley moon".
Midnight and Moonshine
High in mid air, on seraph wing,
The paley moon is journeying
The Ocean Queen
Which tells full soon, the paley moon,
Will from her ocean bed emerge.
Letters of Edward FitzGerald
They paley moon her mournful influence,
When heaviness and longing only wake.
and others.
Nothing to do with Ireland or that part of Ireland governed by the
English in the late Middle Ages.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
> "Beyond the pale" referred to a specific geographical region in 14th century Ireland; it does not apply to the phrase about the "Paley moon".
For those of you without access to the Past, this thread, which
before Betty had 19 messages, was begun on the first day of the
millennium.