The verb "arse" (was: Contemporary classical: admit it, you're bored)
Adam Funk
On 2008-07-24, Pete Granzeau wrote:
>>It's a common expression in England.
>
> Pardon me for not being English, but I was under the impression that
> "arse" was a noun, not a verb, so may I inquire what the statement
> "can't be arsed" means? Thank you.
As far as I know, there are only three ways to use it as a verb:
1. "can't be arsed" = "can't be bothered" (e.g., "He just can't be
arsed to do any work around here", "I can't be arsed to clean up
after you");
2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
the car");
3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
They're all a bit impolite. I suspect that 1 might have been a
humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
know.
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>[Note: adding alt.usage.english for relevance]
>
>On 2008-07-24, Pete Granzeau wrote:
>
>>>It's a common expression in England.
>>
>> Pardon me for not being English, but I was under the impression that
>> "arse" was a noun, not a verb, so may I inquire what the statement
>> "can't be arsed" means? Thank you.
>
>As far as I know, there are only three ways to use it as a verb:
>
>1. "can't be arsed" = "can't be bothered" (e.g., "He just can't be
> arsed to do any work around here", "I can't be arsed to clean up
> after you");
>
>2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
> the car");
>
>3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
>
>They're all a bit impolite.
There are more at:
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/a.htm
> I suspect that 1 might have been a
>humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
>know.
That's an interesting suggestion, but my Englishman's instinct
is that it is unlikely.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
> [Note: adding alt.usage.english for relevance]
>
> On 2008-07-24, Pete Granzeau wrote:
>
> >>It's a common expression in England.
>
> > Pardon me for not being English, but I was under the impression that
> > "arse" was a noun, not a verb, so may I inquire what the statement
> > "can't be arsed" means? Thank you.
>
> As far as I know, there are only three ways to use it as a verb:
>
> 1. "can't be arsed" = "can't be bothered" (e.g., "He just can't be
> arsed to do any work around here", "I can't be arsed to clean up
> after you");
>
> 2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
> the car");
Sounds like you heard, or invented, a euphemism for "fuck around."
> 3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
US "fuck something up."
> They're all a bit impolite. I suspect that 1 might have been a
> humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
> know.
Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
expression.
tony cooper
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
>correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
>expression.
Perhaps not, but who gives a fuck?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Adam Funk
>>1. "can't be arsed" = "can't be bothered" (e.g., "He just can't be
>> arsed to do any work around here", "I can't be arsed to clean up
>> after you");
>> I suspect that 1 might have been a
>>humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
>>know.
>
> That's an interesting suggestion, but my Englishman's instinct
> is that it is unlikely.
I'll defer to that! Any idea how it might have arisen?
--
Is one language more powerful than another? Compare, for example,
English with Yiddish. Sure, it's hard to describe a carburetor in
Yiddish, but try describing a schlemiel in English. (Stoll 1995)
Adam Funk
>> 2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
>> the car");
>
> Sounds like you heard, or invented, a euphemism for "fuck around."
You've never heard "fart(ing) around"? It's a genuine American
expression, perhaps regional.
>> 3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
>
> US "fuck something up."
That's used in the UK too, but "arse X up" is less rude.
>
>> They're all a bit impolite. I suspect that 1 might have been a
>> humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
>> know.
>
> Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
> correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
> expression.
I was merely listing the only three uses that I could recall of "arse"
as a verb; I certainly wasn't suggesting any equivalence! That "fart
around" is similar to "fuck around" (in the non-promiscuous sense)
doesn't mean both F-words are equivalent.
--
The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so
many of them to choose from. [Grace Murray Hopper]
Peter T. Daniels
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>
>
> >Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
> >correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
> >expression.
>
> Perhaps not, but who gives a fuck?
The people discussing it and the people choosing to read the thread,
so shut the fuck up.
Peter T. Daniels
> On 2008-07-25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> >> 2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
> >> the car");
>
> > Sounds like you heard, or invented, a euphemism for "fuck around."
>
> You've never heard "fart(ing) around"? It's a genuine American
> expression, perhaps regional.
I heard "Situation Normal, All Fouled Up" many years before I ever
encountered the original.
OTOH, I heard "Up Shit Creek without a paddle" long before I heard
what seem to be much more common these days, "Up the creek," "Up the
proverbial creek," or even "Up a creek," which seems to have forgotten
the origin entirely.
> >> 3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
>
> > US "fuck something up."
>
> That's used in the UK too, but "arse X up" is less rude.
But it doesn't _mean_ anything! There's no verb "to arse" _outside_
these idioms!
> >> They're all a bit impolite. I suspect that 1 might have been a
> >> humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
> >> know.
>
> > Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
> > correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
> > expression.
>
> I was merely listing the only three uses that I could recall of "arse"
> as a verb; I certainly wasn't suggesting any equivalence! That "fart
> around" is similar to "fuck around" (in the non-promiscuous sense)
> doesn't mean both F-words are equivalent.
Euphemism is euphemism.
tony cooper
Ahh, Petey, the Whoosh bird passed over your head once again. My
reply was directed at your comment that there is no expression similar
to "can't be fucked" that is used as "can't be arsed". "Who gives a
fuck?" expresses the same general sentiment.
A person who says he can't be arsed to do something says so with
intention of conveying that it's too much trouble, not worth the
effort, or that he doesn't care enough to go to the trouble. "Who
gives a fuck?" conveys that same sentiment.
Roland Hutchinson
> OTOH, I heard "Up Shit Creek without a paddle" long before I heard
> what seem to be much more common these days, "Up the creek," "Up the
> proverbial creek," or even "Up a creek," which seems to have forgotten
> the origin entirely.
I wonder if "up a creek" comes about by confusion with "Up a Lazy River".
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Lora Crighton
> On 2008-07-25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> 2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
>>> the car");
>> Sounds like you heard, or invented, a euphemism for "fuck around."
>
> You've never heard "fart(ing) around"? It's a genuine American
> expression, perhaps regional.
>
I don't know about American, but it's common here in Canada. I've never
heard "fuck around".
Martin Crossley
It's not quite the same, though.
"I can't be arsed" means that I can't be bothered (to get off my arse, i.e
leave my chair, and do it) ( regardless of what anyone may think).
"Who gives a fuck?" means more "Who cares?" (Whether I could be arsed or
not (to do it).)
The verb is really "to be not arsed", not "to arse."
You can have "I'm not arsed which political party wins the next election"
or " I can't be arsed going out to vote."
"He couldn't be arsed to vote." or "He wasn't arsed that his party lost."
(Possibly because "The candidates were all arseholes.")
But definitely not "I (or He) (was) arsed (about anything.)"
Martin.
tony cooper
<Mar...@g8uwm.NOSPAMabelgratis.net> wrote:
>tony cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:36:08 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 25, 3:29 pm, tony cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>>
>>>> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
>>>>> correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
>>>>> expression.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps not, but who gives a fuck?
>>>
>>> The people discussing it and the people choosing to read the thread,
>>> so shut the fuck up.
>>
>> Ahh, Petey, the Whoosh bird passed over your head once again. My
>> reply was directed at your comment that there is no expression similar
>> to "can't be fucked" that is used as "can't be arsed". "Who gives a
>> fuck?" expresses the same general sentiment.
>>
>> A person who says he can't be arsed to do something says so with
>> intention of conveying that it's too much trouble, not worth the
>> effort, or that he doesn't care enough to go to the trouble. "Who
>> gives a fuck?" conveys that same sentiment.
>
>It's not quite the same, though.
No, not the same. It conveys the same general attitude, though. A bit
cruder and more direct.
>"I can't be arsed" means that I can't be bothered (to get off my arse, i.e
>leave my chair, and do it) ( regardless of what anyone may think).
>"Who gives a fuck?" means more "Who cares?" (Whether I could be arsed or
>not (to do it).)
>The verb is really "to be not arsed", not "to arse."
>You can have "I'm not arsed which political party wins the next election"
>or " I can't be arsed going out to vote."
>"He couldn't be arsed to vote." or "He wasn't arsed that his party lost."
>(Possibly because "The candidates were all arseholes.")
>
>But definitely not "I (or He) (was) arsed (about anything.)"
>
>Martin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Purl Gurl
> tony cooper wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Your two equivalencies suggest that "can't be arsed" ought to
>>> correspond to a "can't be fucked," but it doesn't; there's no such
>>> expression.
>> Perhaps not, but who gives a fuck?
> The people discussing it and the people choosing to read the thread,
> so shut the fuck up.
Petey! Such a delight to again read you over here
in AUE. You have such an eloquent way with words.
My presumption is you still believe yourself to be
the ultimate authority on my Choctaw culture.
--
Purl Gurl
--
So many are stumped by what slips right off the top of my mind
like a man's bad fitting hairpiece.
Peter T. Daniels
That's because you're a lady, and Canadians are polite.
Peter T. Daniels
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:36:08 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>
But not with the same grammar. Likewise you can't say "Who gives an
arse?"
Amazing how someone can hang around aue for so long and never grasp
_anything_ about language.
louis14
AusE has "arse" as a vulgar equivalent to "fluke", meaning to achive
something luckily or unintentionally.
Q: Did you mean to bounce the ball off two walls and into the basket?
A: No, I just arsed it.
A person who has achieved something like this might be described as "arsey"
(arsy?), and the feat itself would be an "arse".
tony cooper
Petey, Petey, Petey. "Not with the same grammar". Grammar, to you,
is something like a set of Tinker Toys with sticks and with wheels
without holes; you have all the parts but you can't build anything.
"I can't be arsed to do that" and "Who gives a fuck about doing that?"
express the same general sentiment: not enough interest in the
subject to pursue it.
First the reference slides by you, and then you attempt to discount
the reference by a hand-waving at grammatical parallelism.
And, you can express the sentiment involved in "Who gives a fuck?" by
saying "It's no skin off my arse". Both express that the person
making the statement doesn't care about the subject and will not be
the loser no matter what the outcome.
What are you doing here in aue anyway?
tony cooper
wrote:
As they are normally used in the US, there's a difference between the
two phrases. To "fart around" usually means to do nothing productive.
To "fuck around" usually means to do something counter-productive.
"Fart around" implies aimlessness and "fuck around" implies possible
harm. If you come into my office and "fart around", you are just
drifting around my office wasting time but causing no harm. If you
come into my office and fuck around, you shuffle my papers around and
disturb things.
When you attach "with me", there's usually a difference, too. "Don't
fart around with me: means "Make a decision. Take an action". "Don't
fuck around with me" means "Don't cause me trouble".
Stress on "usually" with all above. These are not rigid rules of use.
A person might say "Don't fart around with my stuff" when he's using
it to mean "Don't fuck around with my stuff" because "fart" is
slightly more acceptable than "fuck" but stronger than "mess".
Purl Gurl
>>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
(snipped off)
> Petey, Petey, Petey.
> What are you doing here in aue anyway?
Coyote led him here.
contrex
Yes there is, but I can't be fucked to search for evidence. It is
quite common here in the UK.
Unknown
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:59:03 +0100, Adam Funk posted:
>On 2008-07-25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>> 2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
>>> the car");
>>
>> Sounds like you heard, or invented, a euphemism for "fuck around."
>
>You've never heard "fart(ing) around"? It's a genuine American
>expression, perhaps regional.
If it is, the region includes most, if not all, of Canada.
--
roses are #FF0000
violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you
Unknown
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:13:34 -0400, Lora Crighton posted:
How odd. It's been common in any part of Canada I've lived, which
includes BC, Saskatchewan, Ontario, and very briefly, Quebec.
What part of the country are you in?
Unknown
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:40:23 -0400, tony cooper posted:
Displaying his profound ignorance of the actual use of language, as
opposed to the theory of same.
Derek Turner
>> That's an interesting suggestion, but my Englishman's instinct is that
>> it is unlikely.
>
> I'll defer to that! Any idea how it might have arisen?
Short form of can't be bothered to get my arse in gear/shift my arse
both expressions mean overcome inertia. My guess.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
An equivalent expression I've heard is "I can't be buggered
to...".
Surprisingly, there is only one Google hit for that:
http://www.cptwhinky.co.uk/news.htm
3/4 the way down the page:
12.10.00 who hates their job?
... Well its 2 o'clock and I can't be buggered to do any
work at the moment I'm not in the mood now I've worked my
balls off this morning doing another site which is a little
more exciting than this one ...
Googling for >"be buggered to" site:.uk< finds 220 hits, most of
which are relevant.
The phrase >be buggered to"< yields 2,730 hits some of which are
relevant.
Peter T. Daniels
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:40:19 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
If you're not interested in facts, why do you continue typing there?
("Here" is rec.music.classical.)
> "I can't be arsed to do that" and "Who gives a fuck about doing that?"
> express the same general sentiment: not enough interest in the
> subject to pursue it.
Your "linguistics" is thus on the level of Dushan Vukovic and Franz
Gnaediger. "Same general sentiment" is irrelevant.
> First the reference slides by you, and then you attempt to discount
> the reference by a hand-waving at grammatical parallelism.
>
> And, you can express the sentiment involved in "Who gives a fuck?" by
> saying "It's no skin off my arse". Both express that the person
> making the statement doesn't care about the subject and will not be
> the loser no matter what the outcome.
So does "I don't care about the subject and will not be the loser no
matter what the outcome." There is an indefinitely large number of
paraphrases for any utterance. That does not make them equivalent, and
it does not constitute a reason for discussing any two of them as
equivalent.
> What are you doing here in aue anyway?
You'll have to take that up with Adam Funk.
Adam Funk
Sounds reasonable.
--
I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, [my daughter] will come to me
and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press
away from the Internet?' [Mike Godwin, EFF http://www.eff.org/ ]
tony cooper
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>("Here" is rec.music.classical.)
The inevitable (Or should I say "invariable"?) (cross-thread
reference)response from Petey. Someday Petey will realize that there
is a line somewhere on his screen that tells him where "here" is and
that it is possible to be "here" in more than one place when posting
to Usenet.
Evidently, there's some progression in Petey's thinking process that
goes so far and stops. He's figured out that "here" is not in front
of his keyboard in his own home or office, but is a reference to his
represented presence in a newsgroup. He's gone that far, but not far
enough to know that he can be represented in more than one newsgroup
simultaneously. This inability to think things through is also
reflected in his observations and conclusions about English usage.
>> What are you doing here in aue anyway?
>
>You'll have to take that up with Adam Funk.
Get any help you can.
Django Cat
>> Pardon me for not being English, but I was under the impression that
>> "arse" was a noun, not a verb, so may I inquire what the statement
>> "can't be arsed" means? Thank you.
>
>As far as I know, there are only three ways to use it as a verb:
>
>1. "can't be arsed" = "can't be bothered" (e.g., "He just can't be
> arsed to do any work around here", "I can't be arsed to clean up
> after you");
>
>2. "arse about" = US "fart around" (e.g. "Stop arsing about and get in
> the car");
>
>3. "arse (something) up" = "make a mess of something".
>
>They're all a bit impolite. I suspect that 1 might have been a
>humorous corruption of "can't be asked (to do something)", but I don't
>know.
>
>
cf "I can't be arsed to respond to those cross-posting 'kibology' tossers".
DC
--
Lora Crighton
I've lived most of my life in Toronto, spent about 6 years in Montreal,
and visited other places in Ontario & east.
Django Cat
>>I don't know about American, but it's common here in Canada. I've never
>>heard "fuck around".
>
>As they are normally used in the US, there's a difference between the
>two phrases. To "fart around" usually means to do nothing productive.
>
>
Usually BrE usage is, in fact, 'to fartarse around'.
DC
--
Unknown
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:56:10 -0400, Lora Crighton posted:
To cite a specific example, I knew a fellow airman in the RCAF, named
Ray Roy. He was from Montreal, and spoke with a fairly heavy
French-Canadian accent. He was quite a character.
One day he said "You know, Larry, hi used to speak da henglish real
good, but den hi start to fuck haround wit a haccent. Now hi talk like
dis hall da time."
Lora Crighton
I had French-Canadian classmates, but none of them had that heavy an
accent.
Richard Bollard
I think the origin is "pulled it [the shot] out of his arse".
Related expressions:
"Rhymes with class."
Combined with "tinny", "arse" gives "tin-arsed" (which can lead to a
person called "Nicholas" being called "nickel-arse" and then
"tin-bum").
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Nick Spalding
on Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:52:37 +1000:
My prep-school headmaster used to call me 'Copper bottom'.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Jitze
wrote:
Snap! With my last name, it was a natural to be known
in school as Copper-arse.
Jitze Couperus
Richard Bollard
It would have been fart oo confusing had you been Nick-named as well.
Unknown
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:00:03 -0400, Lora Crighton posted:
It probably depends on where you encounter the people. I would imagine
that in your neighbourhood, English was spoken by most folks. In the
RCAF, those that spoke only French were required to attend the "School
of English" before they entered the Basic Training program. New
graduates from the School of English had only enough training in
English to start getting by, and most had accents that were
exceedingly difficult to decipher.