What does "mercury" mean in the context of weather?

[addisonh...@gmail.com]

I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does "mercury" mean in this context?

Thanks.

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,

<addisonh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
>"mercury" mean in this context?

It means "mercury"!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mercury_Thermometer.jpg

Pierre

--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Charles Bishop]

In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:

It means the small capillary of mercury that was in old thermometers has
reached that part (43 degrees) on the thermometer.

Now, most glass thermometers don't use mercury as the liquid in them,
but the saying stays with us.

--
c, once had to have the lab evacuated because someone broke a thermometer

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:

The air temperature, because thermometers formed from glass tubing were
traditionally filled with mercury.

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 15 May 2015, Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> posted:

No, they weren't. Had they been filled, the mercury couldn't have done
anything other then burst the tubing when it expanded. They contained
mercury, but were not filled with it.

Welcome to the world of patent attorneys.
--
Paul

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Fri, 15 May 2015 16:35:15 -0400, Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com>
wrote:

Agreed.

Mercury was also used in barometers which measured atmospheric pressure
but that was measured in inches: the height of the column of mercury in
a tube:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometer#Mercury_barometers

The OED says:

The metal mercury as used in the column of a barometer or
thermometer. Also in extended use.

1660 R. Boyle New Exper. Physico-mechanicall i. 33 The Mercury
in the Tube fell down lower, about three inches, at the top of the
Mountain then at the bottom.
1698 Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 20 47 The Height of the Mercury
in the Barometer, in Inches and Centesimals.
1704 Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 24 1629 An Experiment, to show
the cause of the descent of the Mercury in the Barometer in a
Storm.
1756 C. Lucas Ess. Waters i. 44 The mercury falls below 33
degrees of Fahrenheit's thermometer.
1785 T. Jefferson Notes Virginia vii. 140 The averaged and
almost unvaried difference of the height of mercury..was .784 of
an inch.
1825 D. Douglas Jrnl. 1 Jan. (1914) 99 Although the difference
of the mercury is trifling, there is always a cooling atmosphere
which renders it more supportable and agreeable.
1883 I. L. Bishop in Leis. Hour 195/1 The mercury has not been
above 83°.

Some of those quotations refer to temperature, the others to pressure.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <rloclad889i3l220g...@4ax.com>,

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 May 2015 16:35:15 -0400, Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
> > addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
> >> "mercury"
> >> mean in this context?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> >The air temperature, because thermometers formed from glass tubing were
> >traditionally filled with mercury.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Mercury was also used in barometers which measured atmospheric pressure
> but that was measured in inches: the height of the column of mercury in
> a tube:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometer#Mercury_barometers

The one I had was in mm Hg.

--
chrles

[snide...@gmail.com]

So how tall was the building?

/dps

[Jerry Friedman]

Were you in the torrid zone?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 15 May 2015, Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> posted:

Torrible, if not wholly torrid. Mr Torricelli has much to answer for.
--
Paul

[Stan Brown]

On Fri, 15 May 2015 12:50:28 -0700 (PDT), addisonh...@gmail.com
wrote:

>
> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does "mercury" mean in this context?

It's a whatchacall, the figure of speech that uses the thing
contained to mean the container -- litote?

Anyway, "mercury" is a whatchacall for "thermometer", because many
thermometers have mercury inside them to show the temperature.

Since a thermometer measures temperature, the sentence means "the
temperature rose to 43 degrees" or "the temperature feel to 43
degrees", depending on context.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Peter Moylan]

On 16/05/15 07:27, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2015 16:35:15 -0400, Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
>> addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does "mercury"
>>> mean in this context?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> The air temperature, because thermometers formed from glass tubing were
>> traditionally filled with mercury.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Mercury was also used in barometers which measured atmospheric pressure
> but that was measured in inches: the height of the column of mercury in
> a tube:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometer#Mercury_barometers

Just in case anyone is confused: barometers and thermometers have some
similarities in appearance, and both use mercury as a working fluid, but
they are based on different physical principles. One end of a barometer
is open to the atmosphere, which in a thermometer the mercury is sealed
inside the glass. Also, the column of mercury in a barometer is wider
than in a thermometer, to reduce its sensitivity to temperature.

> 1698 Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 20 47 The Height of the Mercury
> in the Barometer, in Inches and Centesimals.

The word "centesimal" seems to have largely fallen out of use these
days. I suspect that's because of possibly confusion with "centimetre".

The Oxford Dictionary on-line says that the word is from the early 19th
century, which is not in accord with the 1698 date above. Collins says
17th century.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 15 May 2015 12:50:28 -0700 (PDT), addisonh...@gmail.com
wrote:

>I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does "mercury" mean in this context?

If it's degrees it must be temperature.

If it's millimetres or inches it's probably air pressure.




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 16 May 2015, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> posted:

>Also, the column of mercury in a barometer is wider than in a
>thermometer, to reduce its sensitivity to temperature.

Mr Sensible wonders if he's being particularly dense today.
--
Paul
Write in haste, repent at leisure

[bert]

On Saturday, 16 May 2015 02:48:20 UTC+1, Peter Moylan wrote:
> Just in case anyone is confused . . . the column of mercury

> in a barometer is wider than in a thermometer, to reduce its
> sensitivity to temperature.

No. Wide and narrow columns would be equally sensitive to
temperature, and the temperature sensitivity of a mercury
barometer, while small, is inescapable. The sensitivity
of a thermometer is amplified by having most of the mercury
in the bulb at the bottom, forcing the small quantity in
the very narrow column to exhibit the expansion of the whole.
--

[Whiskers]

Strictly speaking, when making a liquid thermometer, the bulb and tube
are filled with the liquid - at a temperature somewhat higher than the
maximum which the instrument is required to measure. The tube is then
sealed, and as the liquid cools a near-vacuum is formed containing
liquid vapour.

If the completed instrument is ever raised to a temperature
substantially higher than its intended tolerance then it might well
explode.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 16 May 2015 08:24:47 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 May 2015, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> posted:
>>Also, the column of mercury in a barometer is wider than in a
>>thermometer, to reduce its sensitivity to temperature.
>
>Mr Sensible wonders if he's being particularly dense today.

Mr Sensible is not as dense as Mr Mercury!

I'll leave it to someone with the necessary professional ability to
comment further, but I'll just point out that a mercury barometer has a
vertical tube, and a reservoir, open to the atmosphere, at the bottom of
the tube. The mercury is partly in the tube and partly in the reservoir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MercuryBarometer.svg

Not only will the mercury expand or contract according to temperature,
but so will the tube and the reservoir.

I don't know to what extent the expansion of the containers (tube and
reservoir) can be arranged to counteract the expansion of the mercury.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Whiskers skrev:

> If the completed instrument is ever raised to a temperature
> substantially higher than its intended tolerance then it might
> well explode.

My mother always warned us not to heat our body thermometer too
much for exactly that reason.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 16 May 2015, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net>
posted:

I've got a really good idea for a self-correcting barometer. As mercury
is so dense, most objects will float on it; arrange a suitable float /on
the mercury surface/ to carry the scale, so as the mercury expands with
the heat of the day, the scale will rise in exact proportion!

While you're at it, you could float a pointer too, and arrange it to
point at "1 atmosphere" on the scale.
--
Paul

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Paul Wolff skrev:

> I've got a really good idea for a self-correcting barometer. As mercury
> is so dense, most objects will float on it; arrange a suitable float /on
> the mercury surface/ to carry the scale, so as the mercury expands with
> the heat of the day, the scale will rise in exact proportion!

You don't want to have mecury with a free surface anywhere near
you. In spite of its high density it evaporates surprisingly
fast, and it is a nasty nerve poison.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 16 May 2015, Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk>
posted:

I worked with it at University, during my research year. It was reputed
to be running wild under the floorboards of my lab. I still don't know
which of my oddities to ascribe to Hg. In any case, I argue (without the
benefit of evidence) that mercury tooth fillings are probably far more
toxic than a mere puddle of the stuff in that corner over there. I've
had the fillings replaced with nice polymers, cured by intense UV
irradiation which will probably give me gum cancer when I'm 120.
--
Paul

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Paul Wolff skrev:

> I worked with it at University, during my research year. It was
> reputed to be running wild under the floorboards of my lab. I
> still don't know which of my oddities to ascribe to Hg. In any
> case, I argue (without the benefit of evidence) that mercury
> tooth fillings are probably far more toxic than a mere puddle
> of the stuff in that corner over there. I've had the fillings
> replaced with nice polymers, cured by intense UV irradiation
> which will probably give me gum cancer when I'm 120.

I agree about the tooth fillings. I haven't had problems that I
could assign to my fillings, but I had them all replaced with
plastic fillings when small attacks of caries appeared in a
couple of them.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Charles Bishop]

In article <l0IU3gHg...@wolff.co.uk>,

My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
troublesome.

My mother[1] related that when she was a young woman, someone told her
that if she swallowed mercury, it would immediately pass through her
body because of its density. She said she tried it and it didn't work.

[1] This is my mother we're talking about.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <e9bab40a-dcaa-4ea9...@googlegroups.com>,

heh, an oldie but a goodie.

--
charles

[Paul Wolff]

On Sat, 16 May 2015, Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> posted:

As a boy, I jumped back into bed when I had a mercury thermometer in my
mouth. I accidentally bit it in two. My little sister said "[Paul] bited
the temperature!" I spat out what I could -- probably all of it. I think
it gave me mercury tolerance thenceforward. Perhaps. At any rate, nobody
today accuses me of being mercurial. Hermetic, that's another matter
entirely, but one's lips are inevitably now sealed.
--
Paul

[R H Draney]

Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote in
news:wBbBKsJv...@wolff.co.uk:

> As a boy, I jumped back into bed when I had a mercury thermometer in
> my mouth. I accidentally bit it in two. My little sister said "[Paul]
> bited the temperature!" I spat out what I could -- probably all of it.
> I think it gave me mercury tolerance thenceforward. Perhaps. At any
> rate, nobody today accuses me of being mercurial. Hermetic, that's
> another matter entirely, but one's lips are inevitably now sealed.

You quicksilver-tongued devil, you!...r

[Jerry Friedman]

On 5/15/15 1:56 PM, Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
> <addisonh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
>> "mercury" mean in this context?
>
> It means "mercury"!
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mercury_Thermometer.jpg

Little Willy had a mirror
And he licked the back all off,
Thinking in his childish error
It would cure the whooping cough.
At the funeral his mother
Smartly said to Mrs. Brown,
"'Twas a chilly day for Willy
When the mercury went down."

Mirrors were backed with mercury?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

Yes. Silver-mercury or tin-mercury was the backing.

There are many references to this, including:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1506387?uid=3739600&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21106431021851

or http://tinyurl.com/n3nk79p

Mercury poisoning was a common problem for early photographers.
Mercury chloride was used in the 1800s in the production of
daguerreotypes.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Stan Brown]

On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:08 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:
> My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
> particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
> troublesome.
>

Mercury vapor is highly toxic. That was behind the push to eliminate
mercury in glass thermometers -- they are easily broken, and there's
no good way to clean up the mess without inhaling the vapor.

A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
played with elemental mercury one day.

[1] http://web.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/AStock.htm

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 17 May 2015 01:23:29 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 May 2015 22:48:03 -0600, Jerry Friedman
><jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 5/15/15 1:56 PM, Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> <addisonh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
>>>> "mercury" mean in this context?
>>>
>>> It means "mercury"!
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mercury_Thermometer.jpg
>>
>>Little Willy had a mirror
>> And he licked the back all off,
>>Thinking in his childish error
>> It would cure the whooping cough.
>>At the funeral his mother
>> Smartly said to Mrs. Brown,
>>"'Twas a chilly day for Willy
>> When the mercury went down."
>>
>>Mirrors were backed with mercury?
>
>Yes. Silver-mercury or tin-mercury was the backing.
>

Indeed. Mercury was the reflective surface of a mirror. The glass was
there just to hold the mercury in place.

>There are many references to this, including:
>
>http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1506387?uid=3739600&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21106431021851
>
>or http://tinyurl.com/n3nk79p
>
>Mercury poisoning was a common problem for early photographers.
>Mercury chloride was used in the 1800s in the production of
>daguerreotypes.

--

[Richard Tobin]

In article <9qsgla9pnv9ut52uk...@4ax.com>,

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>Indeed. Mercury was the reflective surface of a mirror. The glass was
>there just to hold the mercury in place.

As I understand it the reflective surface was mostly tin. It was
applied as a tin-mercury amalgam, and as much as possible of the
mercury was drained off (which was easy, because of its density) and
much of the rest evaporated (which must have been a hazard for
mirror-makers, and possibly owners).

-- Richard

[Whiskers]

Laboratory barometers have a 'temperature adjustment factor' determined
for each instrument which is inserted into a calculation which adjusts
the pressure reading for the temperature. They also have the scale for
measuring the height of the Hg column adjustable so that measurements
can always be made from the surface of the reservoir (which of course
moves up and down with pressure and temperature changes).

[Whiskers]

On 2015-05-17, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:08 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:
>> My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
>> particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that
>> are troublesome.
>>
>
> Mercury vapor is highly toxic. That was behind the push to eliminate
> mercury in glass thermometers -- they are easily broken, and there's
> no good way to clean up the mess without inhaling the vapor.
>
> A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
> dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
> played with elemental mercury one day.
>
> [1] http://web.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/AStock.htm

Adverse health effects were certainly associated with heavy exposure to
mercury vapour from the 19th century; in particular, workers involved in
making felt for hats were known to exhibit certain symptoms (although
not 'madness' as such, despite the common phrase 'mad as a hatter');
photographers using the daguerreotype process were also at risk. But I
don't think anyone was too bothered about exposure to the general public
until the late 1960s when "Minimata disease" (arising from continued
dumping of mercury-containing waste products from the 1950s onwards, in
an area of the sea which was relied on by subsistence fishermen) gained
international publicity.

<http://rarediseases.about.com/od/rarediseases1/a/102304.htm>

Certainly when I was at grammar school in the 1960s, elemental mercury
was easily accessible and frequently handled (literally in the palm of
the hand). The only concern the authorities had was the cost of
replacing what vanished (mostly spilled and lost under floorboards, but
some undoubtedly smuggled off the premises or swallowed). It was
particularly useful in the physics lab where it could be used to make
tilt-sensitive electrical switches or thermostats and in chemistry where
it was used to extract metals from ores or compounds.

There was some amusement in the early 21st century when the buildings
were being converted to residential use and had to be "decontaminated"
at considerable expense - never mind that for 150 years the best young
male minds in the city had been expected to come through unscathed.

Mercury 'amalgam' is still the first choice for dental fillings, being
very effective and relatively cheap.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 5/16/15 11:23 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2015 22:48:03 -0600, Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/15/15 1:56 PM, Pierre Jelenc wrote:
>>> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> <addisonh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
>>>> "mercury" mean in this context?
>>>
>>> It means "mercury"!
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mercury_Thermometer.jpg
>>
>> Little Willy had a mirror
>> And he licked the back all off,
>> Thinking in his childish error
>> It would cure the whooping cough.
>> At the funeral his mother
>> Smartly said to Mrs. Brown,
>> "'Twas a chilly day for Willy
>> When the mercury went down."
>>
>> Mirrors were backed with mercury?
>
> Yes. Silver-mercury or tin-mercury was the backing.
>
> There are many references to this, including:
>
> http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1506387?uid=3739600&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21106431021851
>
> or http://tinyurl.com/n3nk79p

Thanks, that's interesting.

> Mercury poisoning was a common problem for early photographers.

And for hatters, of course.

> Mercury chloride was used in the 1800s in the production of
> daguerreotypes.
>


--

Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Ah. Thanks.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Whiskers skrev:

> Mercury 'amalgam' is still the first choice for dental fillings, being
> very effective and relatively cheap.

That depends on the dentist. My former dentist, who some years
ago had to stop working after a blood clot, would strongly advise
you to get plastic fillings. She was an expert in this before the
amalgam problem was taken seriously by her collegues.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Stan Brown]

Many dentists in the US advise their patients with old mercury-
amalgam fillings to have them replaced with ceramic ones. I don't
know the chemistry, but I think "ceramic" and "plastic" are
different.

I had three "silver" (actually, amalgam) fillings put ion in one
visit in 1976, and one a year or so later. I've been lucky, and all
but one are still firmly in place and still filling the intended
holes. But a couple of years ago, one developed a problem and the
dentist replaced it with ceramic.

[Richard Tobin]

In article <MPG.2fc29fd89...@news.individual.net>,

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>Many dentists in the US advise their patients with old mercury-
>amalgam fillings to have them replaced with ceramic ones.

Wikipedia quotes the American College of Medical Toxicology and the
American Academy of Clinical Toxicology as saying that the removal of
filling is likely to cause a greater exposure to mercury than leaving
the fillings in place. It also quotes Consumer Reports (which I
believe is the US equivalent of the UK Consumer Association) as saying
"if a dentist wants to remove your fillings because they contain
mercury, watch your wallet".

The whole thing appears to be a scam.

-- Richard

[Peter T. Daniels]

Consumer Reports is a nonprofit private operation, many decades old, that
publishes a monthly magazine (one number of it is a compilation of the
year's results in book form) detailing exhaustive comparisons of every
model of some item that they can buy on the market. It accepts no advertising,
and the 50c cover price was far higher than that of any other monthly magazine.

Maybe they no longer publish a magazine and have put it all on line.

[Paul Wolff]

On Sun, 17 May 2015, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> posted:

>
>Many dentists in the US advise their patients with old mercury-
>amalgam fillings to have them replaced with ceramic ones. I don't
>know the chemistry, but I think "ceramic" and "plastic" are
>different.

When that distinction is being drawn in the everyday world, 'plastic'
doesn't just mean mouldable, it means a carbon-chain polymer, a product
of organic chemistry. 'Ceramic' (to me) is a product of inorganic
chemistry, and I would assume had been fired in a kiln at a high
temperature. Tooth fillings aren't going to have been through that
experience.

I have some ceramic (porcelain) crowns to my teeth. They were made /ex
ore/[1], and glued into place after they had cooled down.

Modern white fillings are 'plastic' in the mouldable sense, and after
insertion into the drilled-out tooth cavity they are cured by
irradiation with ultraviolet light -- a standard method of initiating a
cross-linking reaction in a carbon polymer to render it rigid. But I
haven't actually looked up the facts of modern dentistry, so if anyone
else wants to do so and point out my errors, fire away[2].

>
>I had three "silver" (actually, amalgam) fillings put ion in one
>visit in 1976, and one a year or so later. I've been lucky, and all
>but one are still firmly in place and still filling the intended
>holes. But a couple of years ago, one developed a problem and the
>dentist replaced it with ceramic.
>

[1] Forgive my penchant[1, recursively] for interpolating foreign words
and made-up expressions into my text. I just think, if I've learned some
of a language, it's there to be used, or I've wasted my time.

[2] A cunning nod to ceramic provenance[1?].
--
Paul

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Richard Tobin skrev:

> Wikipedia quotes the American College of Medical Toxicology and
> the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology as saying that the
> removal of filling is likely to cause a greater exposure to
> mercury than leaving the fillings in place.

I am aware of the problem connected with the removal, but I would
like to see evidence that a lifetime with amalgam is less of a
problem than a couple of sessions where the fillings are removed.

> It also quotes Consumer Reports (which I believe is the US
> equivalent of the UK Consumer Association) as saying "if a
> dentist wants to remove your fillings because they contain
> mercury, watch your wallet".

If your doctor wants to prescribe some medicin, watch your
wallet.
If your barber suggests a new haircut for you, watch your wallet.
And so on.

> The whole thing appears to be a scam.

I was not scammed. I had a thorough discussion with my dentist,
and my fillings needed replacement anyway.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Charles Bishop]

In article <MPG.2fc23187d...@news.individual.net>,

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:08 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:
> > My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
> > particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
> > troublesome.
> >
>
> Mercury vapor is highly toxic. That was behind the push to eliminate
> mercury in glass thermometers -- they are easily broken, and there's
> no good way to clean up the mess without inhaling the vapor.
>
> A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
> dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
> played with elemental mercury one day.
>
> [1] http://web.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/AStock.htm

In 1967 or thereabouts, we had to clear the lab at Douglas (or McDonnell
Douglas) because of spilled mercury. I think the only thing done was to
have people come in with vacuums with narrow wands, and they slurped up
any beads of mercury they saw. I don't remember any testing of the air,
but this may have been done and I wasn't aware of it. It didn't take
much more than a day to release the lab back to us.

This was in the US, in SoCal (Santa Monica)

--
charles

[R H Draney]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:2f0a3d7d-833e-4d19...@googlegroups.com:

> Consumer Reports is a nonprofit private operation, many decades old,
> that publishes a monthly magazine (one number of it is a compilation
> of the year's results in book form) detailing exhaustive comparisons
> of every model of some item that they can buy on the market. It
> accepts no advertising, and the 50c cover price was far higher than
> that of any other monthly magazine.
>
> Maybe they no longer publish a magazine and have put it all on line.

Since I've got my subscription renewal notice right next to the keyboard
offering rates of $26/1yr, $49/2yr and $99/5yr, I'd say the magazine plans
on existing at least until 2020....r

[Robert Bannister]

I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 17/05/2015 7:10 am, Paul Wolff wrote:

> As a boy, I jumped back into bed when I had a mercury thermometer in my
> mouth. I accidentally bit it in two. My little sister said "[Paul] bited
> the temperature!" I spat out what I could -- probably all of it. I think
> it gave me mercury tolerance thenceforward. Perhaps. At any rate, nobody
> today accuses me of being mercurial. Hermetic, that's another matter
> entirely, but one's lips are inevitably now sealed.

Have you checked your ankles for vestigial wings?

[Robert Bannister]

I haven't seen mercury ones for years. All of mine were replaced one by
one long ago.

[Joe Fineman]

Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:

> In 1967 or thereabouts, we had to clear the lab at Douglas (or
> McDonnell Douglas) because of spilled mercury. I think the only thing
> done was to have people come in with vacuums with narrow wands, and
> they slurped up any beads of mercury they saw. I don't remember any
> testing of the air, but this may have been done and I wasn't aware of
> it. It didn't take much more than a day to release the lab back to us.

I suspect, also, that they slurped carefully in any cracks in the floor.

That sort of thing was folklore in labs I worked in, before there was
any government compulsion. It is the kind of thing, like lead paint,
that can go on hurting thru the years.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: The distinction between qualitative and quantitative :||
||: differences is one of degree. :||

[Tony Cooper]

The magazine is available for purchase at Barnes & Noble, and current
and back copies are available at the libraries here.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 17 May 2015 20:48:08 +0100, Paul Wolff
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 May 2015, Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> posted:
>>
>>Many dentists in the US advise their patients with old mercury-
>>amalgam fillings to have them replaced with ceramic ones. I don't
>>know the chemistry, but I think "ceramic" and "plastic" are
>>different.
>
>When that distinction is being drawn in the everyday world, 'plastic'
>doesn't just mean mouldable, it means a carbon-chain polymer, a product
>of organic chemistry. 'Ceramic' (to me) is a product of inorganic
>chemistry, and I would assume had been fired in a kiln at a high
>temperature. Tooth fillings aren't going to have been through that
>experience.
>
>I have some ceramic (porcelain) crowns to my teeth. They were made /ex
>ore/[1], and glued into place after they had cooled down.
>
>Modern white fillings are 'plastic' in the mouldable sense, and after
>insertion into the drilled-out tooth cavity they are cured by
>irradiation with ultraviolet light -- a standard method of initiating a
>cross-linking reaction in a carbon polymer to render it rigid. But I
>haven't actually looked up the facts of modern dentistry, so if anyone
>else wants to do so and point out my errors, fire away[2].

Yes, in that sense thery are similar to epoxy resin glue.

But my dentist once replaced a filling with a ceramic one which was
quite different. He measured the drilledour hole and a machine milled
a ceramic block to fit the hole. The machine was very noisy, and the
ceramic block had to be constantly spreayed with water to dissipate
the heat caused by the milling.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter T. Daniels]

That's good.

Probably no discounts -- those prices are not unlike the advertised prices of
other monthlies, but you never actually pay the advertised prices. Sbscription
prices of magazines are supposed to cover the cost of mailing, with advertising
paying for all the editorial content and production costs.

That they offer you a 5-year subscription unfortunately doesn't mean they'll
still be publishing 5 years from now. If something happens, typically they'll
try offering you a subscription to something similar to fill out the time, and
if you really insistently refuse to accept that, they might reluctantly refund
part of your prepayment in cash.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <84wq06y...@verizon.net>,

Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > In 1967 or thereabouts, we had to clear the lab at Douglas (or
> > McDonnell Douglas) because of spilled mercury. I think the only thing
> > done was to have people come in with vacuums with narrow wands, and
> > they slurped up any beads of mercury they saw. I don't remember any
> > testing of the air, but this may have been done and I wasn't aware of
> > it. It didn't take much more than a day to release the lab back to us.
>
> I suspect, also, that they slurped carefully in any cracks in the floor.

It was a poured concrete floor in the lab. Memory suggests I watched at
least part of the clean up from behind plastic sheeting. I think they
did some slurping outside along the edge of the building, but this might
have been a separate incident.

>
> That sort of thing was folklore in labs I worked in, before there was
> any government compulsion. It is the kind of thing, like lead paint,
> that can go on hurting thru the years.

Assuming I haven't conflated memories, I was there for this one. Though
the "compressed gas cylinder[1] through the wall when the valve snaps
off" was told often. Does anyone know if MythBusters tackled this?

[1] we mostly had the 5' tall ones, at ~3000 psi, with some smaller ones
that contained reference samples.

--
charles

[R H Draney]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in

news:6ea2df9c-f999-489f...@googlegroups.com:

> That they offer you a 5-year subscription unfortunately doesn't mean
> they'll still be publishing 5 years from now. If something happens,
> typically they'll try offering you a subscription to something similar
> to fill out the time, and if you really insistently refuse to accept
> that, they might reluctantly refund part of your prepayment in cash.

Yeah, I had that once where I had two five-year subscriptions, one of the
magazines went under, and the unused portion was transferred to the
other...between that and their incessant early renewal notices, I think I
had one title subscribed for something like sixteen years out....r

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Robert Bannister skrev:

> I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
> so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.

I wouldn't bet on it. My mother said "sųlvtųj" ("silver ware")
about our knifes, forks and spoons, and "sųlvpapir"
("silverpaper") has not the slightest trace of silver in it.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[J. J. Lodder]

Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
> addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does "mercury"
> > mean in this context?
> >

> > Thanks.
>
> It means the small capillary of mercury that was in old thermometers has
> reached that part (43 degrees) on the thermometer.
>
> Now, most glass thermometers don't use mercury as the liquid in them,

Mercury thermometers may no longer be produced or imported,
at least in euroland, (unless antique)
The ultimate aim is to eliminate mercury completely
from the human environment,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

Silver paper is also a term in English for something that has no silver
in it.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Richard Tobin]

In article <mjasgu$jb3$1...@dont-email.me>,

Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>If your doctor wants to prescribe some medicin, watch your
>wallet.

I think that applies less in this country, where medecines are free
under the NHS. And as far as I'm aware my doctor cannot make money
from what she prescribes me.

NHS dentists on the other hand usually also do private treatment and
frequently try to persuade you that the private version is better.

-- Richard

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Richard Tobin skrev:

>>If your doctor wants to prescribe some medicin, watch your
>>wallet.

> I think that applies less in this country, where medecines are free
> under the NHS. And as far as I'm aware my doctor cannot make money
> from what she prescribes me.

I just wanted to point out that dentists are no different from
other service people. If you do not trust them - find someone
else.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Paul Wolff]

On Mon, 18 May 2015, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> posted:

Quicksilver ('lively silver') is the older name for what we now call
mercury. So silvering using mercury is a perfectly reasonable term.
--
Paul

[Richard Tobin]

In article <crsnl8...@mid.individual.net>,

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
>so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.

Silver nitrate can be used to apply real silver to mirrors. That
sounds simpler and safer than using a mercury amalgam, but it may also
be done that way.

-- Richard

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <2f0a3d7d-833e-4d19...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>Consumer Reports is a nonprofit private operation, many decades old, that
>publishes a monthly magazine

I originally wrote the following in response:

/Consumer Reports/ is the magazine. The organization is the (somewhat
ungrammatically named) Consumers Union of United States, Inc.

But I checked first, and Wikipedia claims that this has changed, and
the parent organization is now named "Consumer Reports" and "Consumers
Union" is now a subsidiary that engages in political advocacy. In any
event, what PTD says in the quoted text is correct.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <84wq06y...@verizon.net>,
Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:

>Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> In 1967 or thereabouts, we had to clear the lab at Douglas (or
>> McDonnell Douglas) because of spilled mercury. I think the only thing
>> done was to have people come in with vacuums with narrow wands, and
>> they slurped up any beads of mercury they saw. I don't remember any
>> testing of the air, but this may have been done and I wasn't aware of
>> it. It didn't take much more than a day to release the lab back to us.
>
>I suspect, also, that they slurped carefully in any cracks in the floor.
>
>That sort of thing was folklore in labs I worked in, before there was
>any government compulsion. It is the kind of thing, like lead paint,
>that can go on hurting thru the years.

Just sprinkle sulfur powder all over, and let it sit for a day! The
mercury combines with the sulfur to form mercury sulfide, which is an
extremely insoluble, stable gray powder that can be swept or vacuumed
easily. Leave some sulfur in the cracks, and it will mop up any residue,
including vapor.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 4:17:46 PM UTC-7, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2015, Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> posted:
> >In article <l0IU3gHg...@wolff.co.uk>,
> > Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 16 May 2015, Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk>
> >> posted:
> >> >Paul Wolff skrev:
> >> >
> >> >> I've got a really good idea for a self-correcting barometer. As mercury
> >> >> is so dense, most objects will float on it; arrange a suitable float /on
> >> >> the mercury surface/ to carry the scale, so as the mercury expands with
> >> >> the heat of the day, the scale will rise in exact proportion!
> >> >
> >> >You don't want to have mecury with a free surface anywhere near
> >> >you. In spite of its high density it evaporates surprisingly
> >> >fast, and it is a nasty nerve poison.
> >> >
> >> I worked with it at University, during my research year. It was reputed
> >> to be running wild under the floorboards of my lab. I still don't know
> >> which of my oddities to ascribe to Hg. In any case, I argue (without the
> >> benefit of evidence) that mercury tooth fillings are probably far more
> >> toxic than a mere puddle of the stuff in that corner over there. I've
> >> had the fillings replaced with nice polymers, cured by intense UV
> >> irradiation which will probably give me gum cancer when I'm 120.

> >
> >My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
> >particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
> >troublesome.
> >

> >My mother[1] related that when she was a young woman, someone told her
> >that if she swallowed mercury, it would immediately pass through her
> >body because of its density. She said she tried it and it didn't work.
> >
> >[1] This is my mother we're talking about.

> >
> As a boy, I jumped back into bed when I had a mercury thermometer in my
> mouth. I accidentally bit it in two. My little sister said "[Paul] bited
> the temperature!" I spat out what I could -- probably all of it. I think
> it gave me mercury tolerance thenceforward. Perhaps. At any rate, nobody
> today accuses me of being mercurial. Hermetic, that's another matter
> entirely, but one's lips are inevitably now sealed.

There are some mercury compounds that are worse for nerve-damage than others,
and in this group or TOG I think someone once linked to an article about
the fate of one of the premier researchers, who got enough of dose through
her protective gloves that she was dead in something like 2 weeks.

/dps

[Robert Bannister]

On 18/05/2015 2:37 pm, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Robert Bannister skrev:
>
>> I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
>> so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.
>

> I wouldn't bet on it. My mother said "sølvtøj" ("silver ware")
> about our knifes, forks and spoons, and "sølvpapir"

> ("silverpaper") has not the slightest trace of silver in it.
>

Certainly, but some people had real silver cutlery. My guess is that it
began as a self-deprecatory thing "...and this is /our/ silver" and took
off from there.

[Robert Bannister]

On 18/05/2015 3:04 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/05/15 16:37, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Robert Bannister skrev:
>>
>>> I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
>>> so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.
>>

>> I wouldn't bet on it. My mother said "sølvtøj" ("silver ware")
>> about our knifes, forks and spoons, and "sølvpapir"

>> ("silverpaper") has not the slightest trace of silver in it.
>
> Silver paper is also a term in English for something that has no silver
> in it.
>

That refers to the colour silver*, but mirror silvering isn't usually
silver at all - more a black or brown, although I don't know what colour
faces the glass.

* Can I call silver, gold, copper, etc. colours? The metallic aspect
seems to be more important that the actual colour.

[Robert Bannister]

Duh! I knew that. It had just slipped my mind. Thank you for putting
back on the rails.

[Robert Bannister]

Is lead less dangerous? Serious question as I really don't know,
although I suppose it doesn't give off fumes at normal temperatures.
--
Robert Bannister - who worked mercury amalgam tables at the gold crusher
with his bare hands for a while.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 7:49:01 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:

> * Can I call silver, gold, copper, etc. colours? The metallic aspect
> seems to be more important that the actual colour.

You can be a herald and call the first two argent and or.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/05/15 09:48, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 18/05/2015 3:04 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 18/05/15 16:37, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister skrev:
>>>
>>>> I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
>>>> so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.
>>>

>>> I wouldn't bet on it. My mother said "sųlvtųj" ("silver ware")
>>> about our knifes, forks and spoons, and "sųlvpapir"

>>> ("silverpaper") has not the slightest trace of silver in it.
>>
>> Silver paper is also a term in English for something that has no silver
>> in it.
>>
> That refers to the colour silver*, but mirror silvering isn't usually
> silver at all - more a black or brown, although I don't know what colour
> faces the glass.

A perfect reflector has no colour of its own. What you see is whatever
colour mix it is reflecting. The black or brown you see at the back of a
mirror is probably something that has been painted over the reflector.

> * Can I call silver, gold, copper, etc. colours? The metallic aspect
> seems to be more important that the actual colour.

The people who sell paint think that practically anything can be used as
a colour name.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Robert Bannister skrev:

> * Can I call silver, gold, copper, etc. colours? The metallic aspect
> seems to be more important that the actual colour.

In CSS (HTML style sheets) you can specify those names as
colours.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[J. J. Lodder]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

> On 18/05/2015 2:53 pm, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <a3ad013b-a36a-461a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> addisonh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> I keep hearing things like "the mercury hit 43 degrees." What does
> >>> "mercury" mean in this context?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> It means the small capillary of mercury that was in old thermometers has
> >> reached that part (43 degrees) on the thermometer.
> >>
> >> Now, most glass thermometers don't use mercury as the liquid in them,
> >
> > Mercury thermometers may no longer be produced or imported,
> > at least in euroland, (unless antique)
> > The ultimate aim is to eliminate mercury completely
> > from the human environment,
>
> Is lead less dangerous? Serious question as I really don't know,
> although I suppose it doesn't give off fumes at normal temperatures.

Less deadly, afaik, but you shouldn't eat flaked old paint.
The euro aim is to eliminate lead to from the environment
as far as possible.
So iron 'plumb' weights, lead is forbidden for anglers and hunters,
and of course unleaded gas, and lead-free paints.
Lead is still used in metal form where no good replacement exists,
such as flexible parts of roofing,

Jan

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

J. J. Lodder skrev:

> Less deadly, afaik, but you shouldn't eat flaked old paint.

Drinking tea or coffe from a cup or mug that has lead glaze will
give you a dose. Lead was banned from glase in Danish products in
the 70's.

Lead in hunters' ammunition was banned in 1996 much to their
chagrin. They claim that steel is hard on the gun's barrel.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Stan Brown]

On 17 May 2015 22:37:45 GMT, R H Draney wrote:
>
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:2f0a3d7d-833e-4d19...@googlegroups.com:

>
> > Consumer Reports is a nonprofit private operation, many decades old,

> > that publishes a monthly magazine (one number of it is a compilation

> > of the year's results in book form) ...

PTD is inaccurate. For several years now, /Consumer Reports/ has
published a December issue, so the annual buying guide is no longer
even nominally an issue ("number") of the magazine.

> > It accepts no advertising, ...

CU's (not PTD's) claim of "no advertising" is disingenuous: the
magazine carries quite a few full-page ads for CU-published books and
its automobile reports.

> Since I've got my subscription renewal notice right next to the
> keyboard offering rates of $26/1yr, $49/2yr and $99/5yr, I'd say
> the magazine plans on existing at least until 2020....r

I was a loyal subscriber for many years, but I cut my subscription
last summer.

Both the buying guide and the magazine are shadows of their former
selves. The buying guide has gradually shrunk to uselessness. The
magazine is mainly half articles, and to get the other half you have
to pay extra for access to the Web site.(*) I find that tacky, at
best, since the Web site was developed with members' subscription
money. And of course, the days are long past when /Consumer Reports/
was most people's sole source of unbiased reviews.

Compare /The New Yorker/, where print subscribers get all the online
content, PLUS downloadable full weekly issues, as part of their
subscriptions. And that's a profit-making enterprise, which /Consumer
Reports/ is not supposed to be.

(*) Okay, I'm exaggerating a little. But too often, looking at an
article, I found that the content I actually needed was available
only on their paywalled Web site.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Stan Brown]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 07:48:55 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> On 18/05/2015 3:04 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 18/05/15 16:37, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> >> Robert Bannister skrev:
> >>
> >>> I have always heard that stuff referred to as "silver" or "silvering",
> >>> so I imagine at least sometimes it was a silver-mercury amalgam.
> >>

> >> I wouldn't bet on it. My mother said "sųlvtųj" ("silver ware")
> >> about our knifes, forks and spoons, and "sųlvpapir"

> >> ("silverpaper") has not the slightest trace of silver in it.
> >
> > Silver paper is also a term in English for something that has no silver
> > in it.
> >
> That refers to the colour silver*, but mirror silvering isn't usually
> silver at all - more a black or brown, although I don't know what colour
> faces the glass.
>
> * Can I call silver, gold, copper, etc. colours? The metallic aspect
> seems to be more important that the actual colour.

Certainly copper -- I remember "copper-coloured" used to describe a
head of hair i more than one English novel. The moon is silver,
though not, I think, "silver colored". And as for gold, I can refer
you to to less an authority than Lord Blackadder:

"The colour of gold, Percy, is gold. What you have [?]invented is a
lump of green."

[Wayne Brown]

On Sat, 16 May 2015 14:10:10 in article <mj84j9$t8m$1...@dont-email.me> Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Paul Wolff skrev:
>
>> I've got a really good idea for a self-correcting barometer. As mercury
>> is so dense, most objects will float on it; arrange a suitable float /on
>> the mercury surface/ to carry the scale, so as the mercury expands with
>> the heat of the day, the scale will rise in exact proportion!
>
> You don't want to have mecury with a free surface anywhere near
> you. In spite of its high density it evaporates surprisingly
> fast, and it is a nasty nerve poison.

I think its toxicity is somewhat exaggerated these days, though of
course reasonable precautions should be taken when handling it. Back in
the days before everyone was scared of everything and "chemical" was
not considered a bad word, we did experiments in school where we held
mercury in the palms of our hands, pushed drops around on our desks with
our fingers to observe how the high surface tension affected the way
the drops split apart and recombined, used our fingers to rub it into
the surface of silver coins to see how quickly it formed an amalgam,
and even heated it in open test tubes and beakers without wearing any
sort of mask. And all this was when we were children, between about
the ages of 12 and 18. (It began a few years earlier for me since I
had a chemistry set and played with all sorts of "nasty" chemicals in my
bedroom including sulfuric acid, sodium hydroxide and of course mercury.)
Somehow we all survived.

--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)

[Wayne Brown]

On Sun, 17 May 2015 05:03:41 in article <MPG.2fc23187d...@news.individual.net> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:08 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:
>> My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
>> particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
>> troublesome.
>>
>

> Mercury vapor is highly toxic. That was behind the push to eliminate
> mercury in glass thermometers -- they are easily broken, and there's
> no good way to clean up the mess without inhaling the vapor.
>
> A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
> dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
> played with elemental mercury one day.

We did that many times over a period of several years. I had a small
glass pill bottle in my bedroom with just enough mercury in it to cover
the bottom of the bottle, and I used to play with it from time to time.

>
> [1] http://web.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/AStock.htm

[Wayne Brown]

On Sun, 17 May 2015 12:54:24 in article <MPG.2fc29fd89...@news.individual.net> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 May 2015 17:19:38 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>
>> Whiskers skrev:
>>
>> > Mercury 'amalgam' is still the first choice for dental fillings, being
>> > very effective and relatively cheap.
>>
>> That depends on the dentist. My former dentist, who some years
>> ago had to stop working after a blood clot, would strongly advise
>> you to get plastic fillings. She was an expert in this before the
>> amalgam problem was taken seriously by her collegues.
>
> Many dentists in the US advise their patients with old mercury-
> amalgam fillings to have them replaced with ceramic ones. I don't
> know the chemistry, but I think "ceramic" and "plastic" are
> different.
>
> I had three "silver" (actually, amalgam) fillings put ion in one
> visit in 1976, and one a year or so later. I've been lucky, and all
> but one are still firmly in place and still filling the intended
> holes. But a couple of years ago, one developed a problem and the
> dentist replaced it with ceramic.

My dentist gives a choice of amalgam or ceramic; the amalgam is a little
cheaper, but I prefer ceramic since it is less noticeable.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <mjfkrd$bu3$3...@dont-email.me>,

Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>My dentist gives a choice of amalgam or ceramic; the amalgam is a little
>cheaper, but I prefer ceramic since it is less noticeable.

My dentist won't do amalgam any more (for liability reasons, I
believe), but my insurance plan only pays for amalgam regardless of
which type of restoration is actually performed. At some point,
composite will be cheaper than the rarely-performed amalgam and
they'll have to revisit this. (Probably too late to benefit me --
most of my molars have porcelain-on-base-metal crowns now.)

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 04:59:15 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>> > Consumer Reports is a nonprofit private operation, many decades old,
>> > that publishes a monthly magazine (one number of it is a compilation
>> > of the year's results in book form) ...
>

>I was a loyal subscriber for many years, but I cut my subscription
>last summer.
>

I was also a subscriber, but stopped when I could never find the "Best
Rated" of any product reviewed. CU would rate, say, the Zappit
Microwave Model ABC-3497 as the best, but the stores would have only
the Zappit Model ALZ-23909 available. I began to think that the
manufacturers sent CU one-off products for their review tests.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <mjfkmd$bu3$2...@dont-email.me>,

Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 May 2015 05:03:41 in article
><MPG.2fc23187d...@news.individual.net> Stan Brown
><the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
>> dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
>> played with elemental mercury one day.
>
>We did that many times over a period of several years. I had a small
>glass pill bottle in my bedroom with just enough mercury in it to cover
>the bottom of the bottle, and I used to play with it from time to time.

High-school physical-science teacher's favorite demo: pass around a
lab bottle (500 mL, I believe) of water, then pass around an identical
bottle filled with mercury.

Don't think they could get away with having that much mercury in the
building these days.

[Wayne Brown]

Some doctors' offices in the US are in clinics or hospitals that include
pharmacies where you can fill the prescriptions the doctor gives you.
Drug companies also give doctors "incentives" to prescribe their
companies' products:

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/morreim/prescribing.html

On the positive side, drug companies also give doctors free samples,
which the doctors pass on to patients. It's happened more than once
that a doctor has given me enough free samples of an antibiotic or other
medicine during an office visit that I didn't need to pay to have a
prescription filled.

[Wayne Brown]

On Sun, 17 May 2015 19:06:10 in article <84wq06y...@verizon.net> Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> In 1967 or thereabouts, we had to clear the lab at Douglas (or
>> McDonnell Douglas) because of spilled mercury. I think the only thing
>> done was to have people come in with vacuums with narrow wands, and
>> they slurped up any beads of mercury they saw. I don't remember any
>> testing of the air, but this may have been done and I wasn't aware of
>> it. It didn't take much more than a day to release the lab back to us.
>
> I suspect, also, that they slurped carefully in any cracks in the floor.
>
> That sort of thing was folklore in labs I worked in, before there was
> any government compulsion. It is the kind of thing, like lead paint,
> that can go on hurting thru the years.

In my childhood I once spilled a small quantity of mercury in my bedroom.
I managed to scoop most of it up with a sheet of notebook paper and get it
back in the bottle, but there were a few little silver specks in cracks
in the floor for a long while afterward, until it either evaporated or
was absorbed into the floor. My mother probably would have tried to
vacuum it out, but I didn't tell her about it because I really wasn't
supposed to be playing with my chemistry set in my room.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Back when I was reading it, they said they never received products from
manufacturers, but their agents went out incognito to buy the products at
retail.

I always wondered how that worked with cars, which they analyzed dozens of
around the calendar.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 11:51:59 AM UTC-4, Wayne Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 18 May 2015 03:56:28 in article <mjc9fs$2d9n$1...@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk> Richard Tobin <ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> > In article <mjasgu$jb3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> >>If your doctor wants to prescribe some medicin, watch your
> >>wallet.
> > I think that applies less in this country, where medecines are free
> > under the NHS. And as far as I'm aware my doctor cannot make money
> > from what she prescribes me.
> > NHS dentists on the other hand usually also do private treatment and
> > frequently try to persuade you that the private version is better.
>
> Some doctors' offices in the US are in clinics or hospitals that include
> pharmacies where you can fill the prescriptions the doctor gives you.
> Drug companies also give doctors "incentives" to prescribe their
> companies' products:
>
> http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/morreim/prescribing.html
>
> On the positive side, drug companies also give doctors free samples,
> which the doctors pass on to patients. It's happened more than once
> that a doctor has given me enough free samples of an antibiotic or other
> medicine during an office visit that I didn't need to pay to have a
> prescription filled.

Though the go-to antibiotic during national panics, Cipro, is very cheap.
(Check the next time there's an anthrax scare.) The dentist prescribed it
after some procedure a while ago.

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 12:16:33 AM UTC-7, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>
> > Is lead less dangerous? Serious question as I really don't know,
> > although I suppose it doesn't give off fumes at normal temperatures.
>
> Less deadly, afaik, but you shouldn't eat flaked old paint.
> The euro aim is to eliminate lead to from the environment
> as far as possible.
> So iron 'plumb' weights, lead is forbidden for anglers and hunters,
> and of course unleaded gas, and lead-free paints.
> Lead is still used in metal form where no good replacement exists,
> such as flexible parts of roofing,

ROHS-compliant solder ("sodder", for cross-threading ... nuts!)

/dps

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Garrett Wollman skrev:

> High-school physical-science teacher's favorite demo: pass around a
> lab bottle (500 mL, I believe) of water, then pass around an identical
> bottle filled with mercury.

I did that without the waterbottle when I taught chemistry in 8th
grade. We had one kilogram of mercury in a small bottle that was
full.

When I handed it to the first pupil, his hand would hit the
table. The next one likewise, but then the next ones got smarter
and were prepared for the weight. However, when a couple of them
had held the bottle steadily, the next ones didn't realise how
heavy it really was, and then it started all over.

I also let them put their fingers into the mercury and discover
how difficult it was and how dry the finger was afterwards. It
was probably illegal at the time.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Richard Tobin]

In article <mjfm0m$1g6n$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,

Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:

>High-school physical-science teacher's favorite demo: pass around a
>lab bottle (500 mL, I believe) of water, then pass around an identical
>bottle filled with mercury.

The science museum in London used to have equal size spheres of three
different metals: aluminium, steel, and (depleted) uranium I think.
The aluminium one was fairly heavy, the steel one very heavy, but the
uranium one didn't feel heavy: it felt as if it were attracted to the
bench by a powerful magnet.

-- Richard

[Whiskers]

First chemistry lesson in grammar school: "Now boys, this is important,
so listen carefully. There will be trouble if I ever think you haven't
listened to me. We have safety rules in this laboratory; they are,
blazers off - that's what the hooks are for; ties tucked into shirt
fronts at all times; shirt sleeves rolled up above the elbow. When you
are handling some substances you must wear your apron (the same one as
was used for woodwork and metalwork lessons). Nothing you find in this
lab is to be placed in any pocket." We then went on to learn basic
techniques for handling nasty liquids in glass bottles and jars,
including removing the ground-glass stoppers with the little finger of
the hand holding the test tube into which we were to pour the nitric
acid ... and then we were introduced to the 'fume cabinets' and Bunsen
burners.

I don't remember ever seeing any gloves or goggles.

Asbestos was everywhere of course, and I'm sure the woodwork was all
painted with the finest lead paint.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Charles Bishop]

In article <b2b3508c-c5a9-4680...@googlegroups.com>,
snide...@gmail.com wrote:

[mercury adventures]

>
> There are some mercury compounds that are worse for nerve-damage than others,
> and in this group or TOG I think someone once linked to an article about
> the fate of one of the premier researchers, who got enough of dose through
> her protective gloves that she was dead in something like 2 weeks.
>

An interesting blog for the chemists here and those with a penchant for
excitement in the chemistry world:

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/08/28/mercury_azides_ill_get_ri
ght_on_those_for_you.php

A chemist has a blog on "things I won't work with", mostly snapshots of
chemical compounds others have investigated, sometimes with interesting
results.

Oh, there's also this

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/05/18/nitric_acid_and_your_lab_
coat.php

I had a lab coat that looked like that once, but it was sulfuric that
was the cause.
--
charles

[Stan Brown]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:50:48 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Brown wrote:
> On the positive side, drug companies also give doctors free samples,
> which the doctors pass on to patients. It's happened more than once
> that a doctor has given me enough free samples of an antibiotic or other
> medicine during an office visit that I didn't need to pay to have a
> prescription filled.
>

When I was unemployed, I overcame my pride and asked. Doctors almost
always had a sample, or were able to give me a sample of something
else with similar effect.

[Robert Bannister]

I had a sudden vision of myself with a long trumpet and medieval garb,
and had a good laugh.

[J. J. Lodder]

Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder skrev:
>
> > Less deadly, afaik, but you shouldn't eat flaked old paint.
>
> Drinking tea or coffe from a cup or mug that has lead glaze will
> give you a dose. Lead was banned from glase in Danish products in
> the 70's.

Even crystal wine glasses are not real crystal anymore,
since lead glass has been prohibited too.
The imitation 'crystal' doesn't sound as nice as the real thing.

> Lead in hunters' ammunition was banned in 1996 much to their
> chagrin. They claim that steel is hard on the gun's barrel.

Should one weep for their hardship?
BTW, even Americans (or at least Californians)
will have to get used to lead-free bullets,
since it is the only way to save the condors from lead poisoning,

Jan

[Snidely]

snide...@gmail.com submitted this gripping article, maybe on Monday:
> On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 4:17:46 PM UTC-7, Paul Wolff wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 May 2015, Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> posted:
>>> In article <l0IU3gHg...@wolff.co.uk>,
>>> Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 16 May 2015, Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk>
>>>> posted:

>>>>> Paul Wolff skrev:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got a really good idea for a self-correcting barometer. As mercury
>>>>>> is so dense, most objects will float on it; arrange a suitable float /on
>>>>>> the mercury surface/ to carry the scale, so as the mercury expands with
>>>>>> the heat of the day, the scale will rise in exact proportion!
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't want to have mecury with a free surface anywhere near
>>>>> you. In spite of its high density it evaporates surprisingly
>>>>> fast, and it is a nasty nerve poison.
>>>>>

>>>> I worked with it at University, during my research year. It was reputed
>>>> to be running wild under the floorboards of my lab. I still don't know
>>>> which of my oddities to ascribe to Hg. In any case, I argue (without the
>>>> benefit of evidence) that mercury tooth fillings are probably far more
>>>> toxic than a mere puddle of the stuff in that corner over there. I've
>>>> had the fillings replaced with nice polymers, cured by intense UV
>>>> irradiation which will probably give me gum cancer when I'm 120.

>>>
>>> My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
>>> particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
>>> troublesome.
>>>

>>> My mother[1] related that when she was a young woman, someone told her
>>> that if she swallowed mercury, it would immediately pass through her
>>> body because of its density. She said she tried it and it didn't work.
>>>
>>> [1] This is my mother we're talking about.
>>>
>> As a boy, I jumped back into bed when I had a mercury thermometer in my
>> mouth. I accidentally bit it in two. My little sister said "[Paul] bited
>> the temperature!" I spat out what I could -- probably all of it. I think
>> it gave me mercury tolerance thenceforward. Perhaps. At any rate, nobody
>> today accuses me of being mercurial. Hermetic, that's another matter
>> entirely, but one's lips are inevitably now sealed.

>
> There are some mercury compounds that are worse for nerve-damage than others,
> and in this group or TOG I think someone once linked to an article about
> the fate of one of the premier researchers, who got enough of dose through
> her protective gloves that she was dead in something like 2 weeks.

Okay, I rushed that a bit. Less than a year.

<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Wetterhahn>

/dps

--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

J. J. Lodder skrev:

>> Lead in hunters' ammunition was banned in 1996 much to their
>> chagrin. They claim that steel is hard on the gun's barrel.

> Should one weep for their hardship?

In Danish you can say that you weep dry tears which means that
you don't care.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Charles Bishop skrev:

[and here are the unbroken links:]

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/08/28/mercury_azides_ill_get_right_on_those_for_you.php
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/05/18/nitric_acid_and_your_lab_coat.php

The first article reminds me of something that happened a few
years back here in Denmark. It was in the media.

A man had called the police because he had prepared some
explosive stuff, but then he became worried that it was too
dangerous, so he would like the bomb squad to take care of it.

They sent a team and learned that he had made about a kilo of the
stuff in his kitchen. They asked him what it was (I have
forgotten, or we weren't told), but when they got the answer,
they moved away from the house in a hurry. Then they threw a hand
grenade into the kitchen, and the house blew up. Not in a way
that sent bricks flying, but the house looked very tired
afterwards.

Then they left.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[J. J. Lodder]

Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

'Crocodile tears' in many languages,
supposedly from Plutarch,

Jan

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

J. J. Lodder skrev:

>> In Danish you can say that you weep dry tears which means that
>> you don't care.

> 'Crocodile tears' in many languages,
> supposedly from Plutarch,

Yes, we use that expression as well. The dry tears comes from the
Nordic Mythology. Tøk (another name for Loki)had made certain
that Baldr was killed (with a misteltoe arrow - the mistletoe had
not been sworn in to not kill Baldr). He could be revived,
however, if all the Aser (Æsir?) would weep. When they asked Tøk,
he answered:

Tøk wept with dry tears.

so Baldr remained dead.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Sneaky O. Possum]

nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote in
news:1m4q2cj.1f5...@de-ster.xs4all.nl:

Weeping crocodile tears is not the same thing as weeping dry tears. To
weep dry tears is to make no display of sympathy: to weep crocodile tears
is to make a hypocritical display of sympathy, as the crocodile was
supposed to do while consuming its prey (cf. the walrus and the
carpenter's tears over the oysters they were eating).
--
S.O.P.

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 1:00:20 PM UTC-7, Lewis wrote:

>J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> > Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> >> J. J. Lodder skrev:
> >>
> >> > Less deadly, afaik, but you shouldn't eat flaked old paint.
> >>
> >> Drinking tea or coffe from a cup or mug that has lead glaze will
> >> give you a dose. Lead was banned from glase in Danish products in
> >> the 70's.
>
> > Even crystal wine glasses are not real crystal anymore,
> > since lead glass has been prohibited too.
>

> Where is this?

Given the context of the EU regulations, I'd say most of Europe.

>
> I have lead crystal glasses in the cupboard.
>

Date and location of manufacture?

/dps

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 15:26:07 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Brown
<fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 May 2015 05:03:41 in article <MPG.2fc23187d...@news.individual.net> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 May 2015 15:34:08 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:
>>> My understanding was that mercury, itself, as an element wasn't
>>> particularly toxic. It's the compounds, where mercury is ionic, that are
>>> troublesome.
>>>
>>
>> Mercury vapor is highly toxic. That was behind the push to eliminate
>> mercury in glass thermometers -- they are easily broken, and there's
>> no good way to clean up the mess without inhaling the vapor.
>>
>> A warning cry was sounded as early as 1926[1], but I don't think the
>> dangers were generally known even in the 1960s. In science class we
>> played with elemental mercury one day.
>
>We did that many times over a period of several years. I had a small
>glass pill bottle in my bedroom with just enough mercury in it to cover
>the bottom of the bottle, and I used to play with it from time to time.

AOL.

And my father was a chemist, and I'm sure he saw me playing with
mercury, and he never warned me about it.

I remember speculating with friends about what would happen if one
swallowed it -- we thought it might get stuck in the lowest part of
one's intestines and never come out. None of us suspected that it
might be poisonous.

And when we played with it in the school lab our chemistry teachers
didn't warn us about it either.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk