Plural form of nouns
Dharmadeva
Plural Forms of Nouns
When a word denotes only one object, it is singular
Number. When it denotes more than one object, it is Plural
Number.
Rule 1: The general rule for forming Plurals is by
adding 'S' to the word in Singular number:
SINGULAR PLURAL
dog dogs book books hand hands house houses town towns
village villages
Exceptions: But if the noun ends in 'ss,''Sh', Ch, X,
or 'Z', the plural is formed by adding 'es' to the Singular.
SINGULAR PLURAL class classes glass glasses bench
benches brush brushes box boxes fox foxes Topaz Topazes .pa
`3 Rule 2: If the last letter of the noun is 'y' and if 'y'
is preceded by a consonant, the plural is formed by changing
'y' into 'ies'; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
fly flies sky skies lady ladies family families city
cities
But if the final 'y' is preceded by a vowel 8as in
'day,' 'monkey' or 'toy'), the Plural is formed by adding
only 'S' to the word in singular number; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
Day Days Tray Trays Key Keys Monkey Monkeys Boy Boys
Toy Toys
Rule 3: If the last letter of a noun is 'O' and if
that 'O' is preceded ;by a consonant, the Plural is usually
formed by adding 'es' to the Singular; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
hero heroes buffalo buffaloes .pa #3 echo echoes mango
mangoes mosquito mosquitoes potato potatoes
(A) Some exceptions: Canto-s, Memento-s, Solo-s,
Piano-s, Proviso-s.
(B) But the nouns ending in oo, io, eo and yo form the
plural in 'S' and not in 'es'; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
Bamboo Bamboos Cuckoo Cuckoos Portfolio Portfolios
Cameo Cameos Embryo Embryos
Rule 4: If a non ends in 'f' or 'fe', the plural is
generally formed by changing 'f' or 'fe' into 'ves'; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
life lives wife wives calf calves knife knives leaf
leaves wolf wolves thief thieves .pa 3 Exceptions: There are
some nouns ending in 'ief', 'ff', 'oof', 'rf', 'eef', the
plurals in these cases are formed by adding only 'S' to the
word in singular number; as
SINGULAR PLURAL
chief chiefs cliff cliffs proof proofs reef reefs
dwarf dwarfs
Rule 5: There are eight nouns which form the plurals
by changing the inside vowel: as man--men, woman--women,
foot--feet, tooth--teeth, goose--geese, mouse--mice,
louse--lice, dormouse--dormice.
Rule 6: There are some nouns which form plurals by
adding 'en.'
child--children ox--oxen brother--brethren (brothers)
Rule 7: In case of compound nouns, plurals are formed
by adding 'S' to the principAL word:
SINGULAR PLURAL
Father-in-law Fathers-in-laws Daughter-in-law
Daughters-in-law .pa p3 Passer-by Passers-by Step-brother
Step-brothers Commander-in-chief Commanders-in-chief
Rule 8: There are some nouns which are Singular in
form but plural in meaning--Cattle. (The Kaoravas wanted to
steal the CATTLE of King Vira't'a), people (The virtuous
PEOPLE get peace in life.), Swine, Vermin, Gentry, Nobility,
Aristocracy, Clergy, Folk.
Rule 9: There are some nouns which are plural in form
but singular in meaning: mathematics, Physics, Politics,
Economics, Whereabouts, Gallows, Ethics, etc.
Rule 10: Nouns having no plural forms: Alphabet,
Furniture, Poetry, Scenery, Offspring, Luggage, Expenditure,
Issue (child, or children).
Rule 11: (a) Nouns having only PLURAL forms: Alms,
annals, assets, bellows, riches.
(b) Nouns having plural forms but used in the
singular: means, news, innings.
Rule 12: Nouns having double plural forms but with
different meanings: Fish (many fish of the same .pa 03
variety) and fishes (many fishes of different varieties),
People (many people) and peoples Nations; many peoples, etc.
SYSTEMS OF MAKING LATIN PLURALS
If any Latin word in singular ends in 'um' the plural
form ends in 'A' replacing 'um.' For example:
SINGULAR PLURAL
Vitum Vita' Stratum Strata Datum Data Memorandum
Memoranda Medium Media Quantum Quanta Corrigendum Corrigenda
But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
SINGULAR PLURAL
Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
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Shingo Imai
On 28 Feb 1998, Dharmadeva wrote:
>
> SYSTEMS OF MAKING LATIN PLURALS
>
>
> But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
> plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
>
> SINGULAR PLURAL
>
> Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
>
How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
of Contempoarary English)
Shingo Imai
im...@acsu.buffalo.edu
Stan Brown
In article <01bd43d9$0b6b7d80$LocalHost@dambiec>,
> SYSTEMS OF MAKING LATIN PLURALS
> But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
>plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
Bzzt! Wrong, but thanks for playing. According to your rule, the plural
of "lotus" would be "loti", not "lotii" as you said. But according to
both AHD3 and Noel Coward it's "lotuses".
And the plural of status is statuses, not stati -- it's not even stati in
Latin.
Ditto "virus" -- "viruses" is the plural.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.concentric.net/%7eBrownsta/
Please do not send me mail with a false return address.
Stan Brown
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980301150034.19499J-
100...@hercules.acsu.buffalo.edu>, im...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shingo Imai)
wrote:
>On 28 Feb 1998, Dharmadeva wrote:
>> plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
>>
>is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
>of Contempoarary English)
AHD3 says "-puses or -pi". I favor the regular form "octopuses" because
octopi seems just too, too, precious to me.
The "rule" as stated is not complete: lots of Latinate English words
ending in -us take their English plurals in -uses. Some of them (like
status) didn't even take -i plurals in Latin.
As for "cumpus", I don't know that word and neither does AHD3. Can you
perhaps tell us where you saw it, and give the sentence it was used in?
Mark Barton
On Sun, Mar 1, 1998 8:11 PM, Shingo Imai <mailto:im...@acsu.buffalo.edu>
>On 28 Feb 1998, Dharmadeva wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
>>
>>
>> Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
Of these, "radii" is common in technical usage, I've never heard "lotii"
and would assume it was an error, "cactuses and "cactii" are equally
possible, and you would need to ask a doctor about "plexi".
>How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
>is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
>of Contempoarary English)
I'm afraid I've never heard of a cumpus. Are you thinking of "compass"? In
that case the plural is "compasses".
I recommend "octopuses". "Octopi" is possible, and may even be preferred
among experts. Hoowever if you ever have to use it in everyday
conversation, you need to say it with a very straight face or people may
think you are making a joke.
Cheers,
Mark B.
----------------
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Gerard Joannes
>Plural Forms of Nouns
>
> Rule 5: There are eight nouns which form the plurals
>by changing the inside vowel: as man--men, woman--women,
>foot--feet, tooth--teeth, goose--geese, mouse--mice,
>louse--lice, dormouse--dormice.
>
I think the plural of dormouse should be dormouses because the dormouse is
anything but a mouse. :-)
Gerard Joannes Forbach France
u96...@student.canberra.edu.au
> > But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
> > plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
> >
> > SINGULAR PLURAL
> >
> > Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
> >
> How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
> is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
> of Contempoarary English)
Do you mean campus = campi. Octopi seems OK
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u96...@student.canberra.edu.au
> SYSTEMS OF MAKING LATIN PLURALS
> >plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
>
> of "lotus" would be "loti", not "lotii" as you said. But according to
> both AHD3 and Noel Coward it's "lotuses".
>
> And the plural of status is statuses, not stati -- it's not even stati in
> Latin.
>
> Ditto "virus" -- "viruses" is the plural.
Yes and no, in that it depends if you equate some of the above words as being
of latin origin. Lotus appears originally of Semitic origin and more greek
also. So I guess, the second standard 'es' is acceptable (and obviously in
common usage).
In any case the rule is a general one and a with most things in English has
many exceptions
Graeme Thomas
In article <B11F530...@131.215.125.35>, Mark Barton
<mba...@icrr.no.u-tokyo.spam.ac.jp> writes
>I recommend "octopuses". "Octopi" is possible, and may even be preferred
>among experts.
Octopi* is just wrong. That, unfortunately, doesn't make it impossible,
or even uncommon.
Although most Latin words ending in -us form a plural in -i, not all do.
For example, we have opus -> opera; genus -> genera; status -> status
(the latter having a long u). Virus is a curious case, as it is
heteroclitic, and the plural appears never to have been used in Latin.
The best guess for a plural is probably virora, but I'd recommend
sticking with viruses.
--
Graeme Thomas
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <JvM5cJBxsq+0Ew7$@graemet.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Thomas
<gra...@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Virus is a curious case, as it is heteroclitic, and the plural appears never
> to have been used in Latin. The best guess for a plural is probably virora,
> but I'd recommend sticking with viruses.
What means "heteroclitic"? It's not in the AHD.
Why "virora"? The standard rule for nom./acc. plural of a neuter noun in
Latin is stem+/a/. Since "virus" declines like this - virus, virus, viri,
viro, viro - its stem is "vir-", so the plural is most probably "vira", no?
There are a couple of other second-declension neuter nouns in "-us" in
Latin - "vulgus" and "pelagus" - but I don't think either of them is
attested in the plural either.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Kevin
Stan Brown <brow...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<MPG.f63c5136...@news.concentric.net>...
> >How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
> >is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman
Dictionary
> >of Contempoarary English)
>
> AHD3 says "-puses or -pi". I favor the regular form "octopuses" because
> octopi seems just too, too, precious to me.
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
If we wanted to be _really_ precious, why not make the plural "octopodes"?
After all, the word is Greek, not Latin, in origin, so the 'most accurate'
plural would follow the Greek form, wouldn't it? (Ditto
"platypus-platypodes"!) But with tongue out of cheek, I'm sure that most
people would agree with you that anything other than "octopuses" is plain
silly.
Kevin
Graeme Thomas
In article <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.nii.net>, "Aaron J.
Dinkin" <adi...@commschool.org> writes
>What means "heteroclitic"? It's not in the AHD.
declensions".
>Why "virora"? The standard rule for nom./acc. plural of a neuter noun in
>Latin is stem+/a/. Since "virus" declines like this - virus, virus, viri,
>viro, viro - its stem is "vir-", so the plural is most probably "vira", no?
Because it is heteroclitic, the stem in the plural is probably "viror-",
or (less likely) "virar-".
I don't have the refernces to hand, so I can'r quote them,
unfortunately.
--
Graeme Thomas
C Porter9
Graeme Thomas noted that (snip):
Octopus is Greek, not Latin, and the plural in Greek would be octopodes.
Octopi* is just wrong. That, unfortunately, doesn't make it impossible,
or even uncommon.
Which brings me to a related question:
Is there any way for a speaker of English to recognize when they are uttering a
Greek, as opposed to Latin, term? So that one could properly pluralize the
term? Any hints? So, for instance, if octopus is Greek, then so is octagon?
Therefore the plural would be octagonodes? Do we just not pluralize Greek terms
with Greek plurals, but rather with English pluralization? What about Greek
terms that Latin had adopted? Do we say the term is Latin, or Greek?
Cheers, Chris
Simon R. Hughes
On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:11:26 -0500, Shingo Imai <im...@acsu.buffalo.edu>
wrote:
> On 28 Feb 1998, Dharmadeva wrote:
>
> >
> > SYSTEMS OF MAKING LATIN PLURALS
> >
> >
> > But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
> > plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
> >
> > SINGULAR PLURAL
> >
> > Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
> >
> How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
> is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
> of Contempoarary English)
If the dictionary mentions no plural form, the dictionary considers
the noun regular: -s/ -es.
Simon R. Hughes
mailto:shu...@geocities.com
(Mail not sent directly to the above address will be deleted without being read.)
Kevin Wald
In article <sIQAVWBD...@graemet.demon.co.uk>,
Graeme Thomas <gra...@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.nii.net>, "Aaron J.
>Dinkin" <adi...@commschool.org> writes
>>What means "heteroclitic"? It's not in the AHD.
>"Irregularly inflected", or "having inflections from different
>declensions".
And the latter definition is applicable to this case because one can
interpret the irregular inflection of _virus_ (and _vulgus_ and
_pelagus_) as combining 2nd declension neuter forms (in the genitive,
dative, and ablative) with the nominitive/accusative form of a 3rd
declension neuter s-stem, like _genus_ or _corpus_ (note that _pelagus_,
a Greek borrowing, has nom/acc plural _pelage_, appropriate to a Greek
3rd declension s-stem).
>>Why "virora"? The standard rule for nom./acc. plural of a neuter noun in
>>Latin is stem+/a/. Since "virus" declines like this - virus, virus, viri,
>>viro, viro - its stem is "vir-", so the plural is most probably "vira", no?
>Because it is heteroclitic, the stem in the plural is probably "viror-",
As in _corpus_, _corporis_.
>or (less likely) "virar-".
Wouldn't the other one be _virer-_ (as in _genus_, _generis_) instead
of _virar-_?
(I must add that, given the propensity of unaccented vowels to drop
out after r in the history of Latin, the stem might well have ended
up as _virr-_. Thus, another strong candidate for the plural -- my
own personal favorite -- is "virra".)
Kevin Wald, wa...@math.uchicago.edu | "Catalog of ships -- I'll remember that."
http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~wald | -- Homer, _The Huntress and the Sphinx_
P&DSchultz
Well, a titmouse isn't a mouse either, but the only plural for it
in the dictionary I use is titmice.
//P. Schultz
Robert Lieblich
u96...@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
>
> > > But if the word in singular number ends in 'us' the
> > > plural form ends in 'i' replacing 'us.' For example:
> > >
> > > SINGULAR PLURAL
> > >
> > > Radius Radii Lotus Lotii Cactus Cacti Plexus Plexi
> > >
> > How do you make plural forms for 'cumpus' and 'octopus'? (No plural form
> > is given for cumpus and octopuses/octopi for octopus in Longman Dictionary
> > of Contempoarary English)
>
One more time:
"Octopus" in the original Latin is not second declension, and "octopi"
is not its Latin plural. "Octopodes" is. Most of us say "octopuses" on
the premise that the word is now sufficiently domesticated (that's the
word, not the creature) to take a standard English plural.
Bob Lieblich
Michael Hardy
C Porter9 (cpor...@aol.com) wrote:
> Is there any way for a speaker of English to recognize when they
> are uttering a Greek, as opposed to Latin, term? So that one could
> properly pluralize the term? Any hints?
Certainly. Any word that ends with -sis and whose plural
ends with -ses probably comes from Greek. Eg: basis |---> bases,
oasis |---> oases, parenthesis |---> parentheses, thesis |---> theses,
axis |---> axes. Any word that has "rh" pronounced as "r" probably
comes from Greek. Eg: rhythm. Any word that has "ph" pronounced
as "f" probably comes from Greek. Eg: phone, nymph. Any word that
has "y" as the vowel in an accented syllable probably comes from Greek.
Eg. nymph, rhythm, psyche. Any word that has "ch" pronounced as "k"
probably comes from Greek. Eg. psyche, chaos. Any word that begins
with "ps" probably comes from Greek. Eg. psyche, pseudo-. Note the
word "cyclops" _ends_ with "ps". That's actually the same Greek letter
(psi) that _begins_ the word "psyche." Any word that ends with -on
in the singular and -a in the plural probably comes from Greek.
Eg. criterion |---> criteria, phenomenon |---> phenomena.
Any word that ends with the -ation suffix probably comes from Latin.
Or the -or suffix. Or has -us in the singular and -i in the plural.
> So, for instance, if octopus is Greek, then so is octagon?
The -gon comes from the Greek "gonia" meaning "angle".
That's where "orthogonal" comes from. ("Ortho"="right", "gon"="angle.)
Mike Hardy
--
Michael Hardy
ha...@math.unc.edu
http://www.math.unc.edu/~hardy
Sean Holland
Gerard Joannes <g.jo...@ac-nancy-metz.fr> wrote:
> I think the plural of dormouse should be dormouses because the dormouse is
> anything but a mouse. :-)
Anything but a mouse? So, a dormouse is a canteloupe, and a dormouse
is Model T Ford.
--
Sean
To e-mail me, take out the garbage.
Sean Holland
Kevin <ke...@NOSPAM.cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
> I'm sure that most
> people would agree with you that anything other than "octopuses" is plain
> silly.
I wouldn't agree. I think it would be fine to say "There are a lot of
octopus in these waters." Not silly.
Richard M. Alderson III
In article <19980302185...@ladder03.news.aol.com> cpor...@aol.com
(C Porter9) writes:
>Is there any way for a speaker of English to recognize when they are uttering
>a Greek, as opposed to Latin, term? So that one could properly pluralize the
>term? Any hints?
Superior education?
>So, for instance, if octopus is Greek, then so is octagon?
Yup.
>Therefore the plural would be octagonodes?
Nope. _oktagones_ "eight angles". (The Greeks named figures by the number of
angles, rather than the number of sides--cf. English _triangle_.)
>Do we just not pluralize Greek terms with Greek plurals, but rather with
>English pluralization?
_The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_.
>What about Greek terms that Latin had adopted? Do we say the term is Latin, or
>Greek?
Depends on whether the Romans (or later Latin users) assigned a Latin declen-
sion to the word, or kept it more ore less Greek. Some of the poets did the
latter...
--
Rich Alderson You know the sort of thing that you can find in any dictionary
of a strange language, and which so excites the amateur philo-
logists, itching to derive one tongue from another that they
know better: a word that is nearly the same in form and meaning
as the corresponding word in English, or Latin, or Hebrew, or
what not.
--J. R. R. Tolkien,
alde...@netcom.com _The Notion Club Papers_
Graeme Thomas
In article <Ep7qo...@midway.uchicago.edu>, Kevin Wald
<wa...@ford.uchicago.edu> writes
>Wouldn't the other one be _virer-_ (as in _genus_, _generis_) instead
>of _virar-_?
>Thus, another strong candidate for the plural -- my
>own personal favorite -- is "virra".)
My own personal favourite is "viruses", if only to avoid the half-hour
or so of "don't you mean viri?", or (shudder) "virii". On the other
hand, at least "virora" allows me a rare chance to use heteroclitic in
context.
--
Graeme Thomas
Graeme Thomas
In article <19980302185...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, C Porter9
<cpor...@aol.com> writes
>Which brings me to a related question:
>Greek, as opposed to Latin, term?
use the English or foreign plural, and, with luck and a following
breeze, what that foreign plural should be. If, for some bizarre
reason, a dictionary is not to hand, use the English plural in any case
of doubt; it's rarely wrong.
--
Graeme Thomas
Albert Marshall
Graeme Thomas <gra...@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote
>On the other
>hand, at least "virora" allows me a rare chance to use heteroclitic in
>context.
Would someone *please* define "heteroclitic"? It sounds like a variety
of orgasm.
--
Albert Marshall
Executive French
Language Training for Businesses in Kent
01634 400902
C Porter9
Richard M. Alderson III replied to my queries:
[begin quote]
(cpor...@aol.com)
Do we just not pluralize Greek terms with Greek plurals, but rather with
English pluralization?
_The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_.
What about Greek terms that Latin had adopted? Do we say the term is Latin, or
Greek?
Depends on whether the Romans (or later Latin users) assigned a Latin
declension to the word, or kept it more ore less Greek. Some of the poets did
the latter...
[end quote]
So how does one know if the Romans assigned their own
pluralization rules? I've looked up a few words that
Mike Hardy said were Greek, and my AHD says they are
Latin, from Greek (cyclops, rhythm, octagon, octopus,
nymph, psyche). Pluralization is not always given. Also,
in the AHD, what is the difference between "Latin" and "New Latin"?
I rely on my "ear" to come up the plurals. Which leads
me to say rhythms, octagons, octopi (I've always
thought "pus" was a Latin ending going to "i" in the plural),
nymphs, psyches. The ng thread got me thinking about using
"rules" rather than experience.
Cheers, Chris
Robert Lieblich
Sean Holland wrote:
>
> Kevin <ke...@NOSPAM.cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure that most
> > people would agree with you that anything other than "octopuses" is plain
> > silly.
>
> I wouldn't agree. I think it would be fine to say "There are a lot of
> octopus in these waters." Not silly.
But then wouldn't it have to be "There *is* a lot of octopus in these
waters"? We say "There is a lot of salt in these waters." How *does*
"octopus" function in your example?
Bob Lieblich
Robert Lipton
In article <1998030223...@i3-30.islandnet.com>, Sean Holland wrote:
>Kevin <ke...@NOSPAM.cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure that most
>> people would agree with you that anything other than "octopuses" is plain
>> silly.
>
> I wouldn't agree. I think it would be fine to say "There are a lot of
>octopus in these waters." Not silly.
Only if you are an octopus-hunter.
Bob
Markus Laker
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>:
> "Octopus" in the original Latin is not second declension, and "octopi"
> is not its Latin plural. "Octopodes" is.
Um, 'octopus' is Greek, not Latin. I can't think of any Latin words
ending '-us' whose plural ends in '-odes'.
> Most of us say "octopuses" on
> the premise that the word is now sufficiently domesticated (that's the
> word, not the creature) to take a standard English plural.
Agreed. Talking to your mum about octopodes would be ridiculous (plural
'ridiculopodes').
Markus
--
a.u.e resources: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~laker/aue/
My real email address doesn't include a Christian name.
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <19980303115...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
cpor...@aol.com (C Porter9) wrote:
> Also, in the AHD, what is the difference between "Latin" and "New Latin"?
"Latin" refers to Classical Latin - that of the writings of folks like
Vergil, Caesar, Ovid, Catullus, Horace, Sallust, and so forth and the
oratory of Cicero. "Vulgar Latin" is Latin as it was spoken in the time of
the above fellows. "Late Latin" is as it was spoken and written several
hundred years after all of them. And "New Latin" is Latin words that never
existed when Latin was a living language, coined by modern (usually)
scientists.
Graeme Thomas
In article <34fe5029...@news.tcp.co.uk>, Markus Laker
<fredd...@tcp.co.uk> writes
>Agreed. Talking to your mum about octopodes would be ridiculous (plural
>'ridiculopodes').
manner. Anyway, a lifetime of solving crossword puzzles has left her
with a much larger vocabulary than I have.
--
Graeme Thomas
Sean Holland
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
> But then wouldn't it have to be "There *is* a lot of octopus in these
> waters"? We say "There is a lot of salt in these waters." How *does*
> "octopus" function in your example?
>
There are a lot of fish. And a lot of octopus. "Octopus" seems to me
a reasonable plural form of "octopus".
If I were to say "There are a lot of deer on the road", I would mean
that there are a lot of individual antlered ungulates walking upon the
thoroughfare. Were I to say "There is a lot of deer on the road" I would
be describing the aftermath of a violent encounter between one of the
deer and a speeding vehicle.
PATTIBELLE
PA> anything other than "octopuses" is plain
PA> > > silly.
The plural of octopus is either octopuses or octopi.
jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.us
In article <34FC01...@erols.com>,
> > I wouldn't agree. I think it would be fine to say "There are a lot of
> > octopus in these waters." Not silly.
>
> But then wouldn't it have to be "There *is* a lot of octopus in these
> waters"? We say "There is a lot of salt in these waters." How *does*
> "octopus" function in your example?
I don't know about Kevin, but if I had written that sentence, "octupus"
would have been functioning as "game animal". There seems to be a rule that
if an animal is commonly hunted or fished, the plural can be the unchanged
singular, especially in sporting contexts. "There are a lot of pheasant in
that field." "Bass are now hard to find in that pond, but perch are
abundant." I assume this is what Robert Lipton meant when he mentioned
octupus hunters.
Jerry Friedman
jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.us
In article <01bd43d9$0b6b7d80$LocalHost@dambiec>,...
>
> Rule 1: The general rule for forming Plurals is by
> adding 'S' to the word in Singular number:
...
>
> Exceptions: But if the noun ends in 'ss,''Sh', Ch, X,
> or 'Z', the plural is formed by adding 'es' to the Singular.
...
Exception to the exception: Rule 1 applies in its original form if the
final SOUND of the word is not sibilant. The only examples I can think of
offhand are borrowings from Greek that end in "ch": panarch, panarchs;
amphibrach, amphibrachs.
> Rule 2: If the last letter of the noun is 'y' and if 'y'
> is preceded by a consonant, the plural is formed by changing
> 'y' into 'ies';
...
> Rule 3: If the last letter of a noun is 'O' and if
> that 'O' is preceded by a consonant, the Plural is usually
> formed by adding 'es' to the Singular
...
Another exception is that some nouns from foreign languages (especially
Italian) can take their foreign plurals: concerto, concerti (or concertos).
> Rule 4: If a noun ends in 'f' or 'fe', the plural is
> generally formed by changing 'f' or 'fe' into 'ves'
Exception: Rules 2, 3, and 4 don't apply to proper names. "The Dead
Kennedys", "Whole Chicagos of monetarists", "Were the Greenleafs there?"
Rule 13. (I hesitate to even bring this up.) Single letters and other
symbols that are not words can form the plural by adding "'s". "Her high A's
are still beautiful." As I understand it, the modern tendency among
professional typesetters is to use this method only when necessary to reduce
confusion (as above). Thus #, #s; the '90s. (The modern tendency among a
great many people is to use this rule for any word ending in a vowel and any
proper name. Yuck!)
Aaron J. Dinkin
> "Bass are now hard to find in that pond, but perch are abundant."
Naw, they've just been reflected by a prism.
Brian J Goggin
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:15:53 -0600, jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.us wrote:
[...]
>"Bass are now hard to find in that pond, but perch are abundant."
Is the bass a freshwater fish in the US?
bjg
Perchprism
Dr. Whom wrote:
>From: adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin)
>Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 18:34 EST
>Message-id: <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.nii.net>
>
Goddammit, once and for all, it's "perch" the transitive verb and "prism" the
geometric figure! Grrrrr!
GBL
"Quotation is the opiate of the intelligentsia."
N.Mitchum
[mail&post]
Brian J Goggin wrote:
-----
> Is the bass a freshwater fish in the US?
>.....
Yes. I believe "bass" ordinarily refers in America to the
freshwater varieties. The brinier sort are called "sea bass."
--- NM
Mailed copies of replies always appreciated. (Mailers: drop HINTS.)
Donna Richoux
Brian J Goggin <b...@wordwrights.ie> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:15:53 -0600, jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.us wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >"Bass are now hard to find in that pond, but perch are abundant."
>
> Is the bass a freshwater fish in the US?
TBWBD: "bass 1. a North American fish with spiny fins. Bass live in
fresh water or in the ocean and most kinds are used for food, as the
black bass, striped bass, calico bass, sea bass, and rock bass. 2. any
one of various other fishes belonging to the perch family."
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Michael Cargal
"N.Mitchum" <HINTS...@mail.lafn.org> wrote:
>[mail&post]
>
>Brian J Goggin wrote:
>-----
>> Is the bass a freshwater fish in the US?
>>.....
>
>Yes. I believe "bass" ordinarily refers in America to the
>freshwater varieties. The brinier sort are called "sea bass."
"Bass" is a general term. I don't think there is a single species
called "bass," whether freshwater or saltwater. There are, instead,
largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, striped bass, spotted bass, black
sea bass, white sea bass, and on and on.
Michael Cargal car...@cts.com
If posting a reply, please do not email the same reply to me--it just confuses me.
N.Mitchum
Michael Cargal wrote:
-----
> > I believe "bass" ordinarily refers in America to the
> >freshwater varieties. The brinier sort are called "sea bass."
>
> "Bass" is a general term. I don't think there is a single species
> called "bass," whether freshwater or saltwater. There are, instead,
> largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, striped bass, spotted bass, black
> sea bass, white sea bass, and on and on.
I'll take the word of anyone who can name more than two types of
bass. Most of my fish lore I picked up from looking through the
deli window. I know there is no bass species, but that's about
all I do know.
Still, I think many other (equally ignorant) Americans are apt to
think of "bass" as the kind found in lakes, and that it would take
some qualification like "sea bass" to remind them there is another
kind.
Perchprism
NM wrote:
>From: "N.Mitchum" <HINTS...@mail.lafn.org>
>Date: Thu, Mar 12, 1998 17:55 EST
>Message-id: <350867...@mail.lafn.org>
I've done a little fishing (Middle Atlantic Coast). A naked "bass" is taken to
mean the freshwater largemouth, the smallmouth being comparatively rare, and
the spotted a creature of fable almost; unless you're in a saltwater context,
where it usually means a rock bass, because striped bass are almost invariably
called stripers, who, incidentally, come up into fresh water sometimes.
Skitt
N.Mitchum wrote in message <350867...@mail.lafn.org>...
>Michael Cargal wrote:
>-----
>> > I believe "bass" ordinarily refers in America to the
>> >freshwater varieties. The brinier sort are called "sea bass."
>>
>> "Bass" is a general term. I don't think there is a single species
>> called "bass," whether freshwater or saltwater. There are, instead,
>> largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, striped bass, spotted bass, black
>> sea bass, white sea bass, and on and on.
>>.....
>
>I'll take the word of anyone who can name more than two types of
>bass. Most of my fish lore I picked up from looking through the
>deli window. I know there is no bass species, but that's about
>all I do know.
I see, you are honest and truthful.
>Still, I think many other (equally ignorant) Americans are apt to
>think of "bass" as the kind found in lakes, and that it would take
>some qualification like "sea bass" to remind them there is another
>kind.
There you go again! (Ronald Reagan)
Read Donna's post.
Skitt
Sean Holland
Perchprism <perch...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've done a little fishing (Middle Atlantic Coast). A naked "bass" is
> taken to mean the freshwater largemouth, the smallmouth being
> comparatively rare, and the spotted a creature of fable almost; unless
> you're in a saltwater context, where it usually means a rock bass, because
> striped bass are almost invariably called stripers, who, incidentally,
> come up into fresh water sometimes.
>
Stan Brown
In article <55bpocr.p...@delphi.com>, patti...@delphi.com
(PATTIBELLE) seems to have written:
>
>The plural of octopus is either octopuses or octopi.
When making categorical statements like this, you run the risk of looking
foolish unless you have an authority, and cite it.
For instance, AHD3 agrees with you.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.concentric.net/%7eBrownsta/
Please do not send me mail with a false return address.