what is 'Damning with feint praise'

[srojas...@yahoo.com.mx]

Hello everybody
I wold like to know what "Damning with feint praise" means

somebody in other group replied me with that
but Imnot sure what that means
i tried google translate and didnt quite get the meaning

My 1st language is not english

thank you in advance

S.Rojas

[bob]

In many situations, to describe something that you don't like honestly
would be considered rude. In such a situation, you might find a way
of describing the thing you don't like so that, taken litterally, you
are praising it, but you are placing so many restrictions on what you
are saying, or are using a not very strong wording in your praise,
that it is clear to the person listening to you that you actually
don't like the thing. "The painting was destinctive due to its strong
use of colour and imaginitive composition" might be a way of saying,
"The painting had very poor use of colour and didn't look very good".

Robin

[Harrison Hill]

"distinctive", "imaginative", "faint praise".

[Derek Turner]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:30:58 -0800, srojasramirez wrote:

> Hello everybody I wold like to know what "Damning with feint praise"
> means

It's damning with FAINT praise.

To praise someone only a little (faintly) and thereby imply criticism or
dislike.

e.g.

What do you think of David Cameron as prime minister? Well, his hair is
always well-cut.

[PAUL {HAMILTON ROONEY}]

It's "faint", not "feint", which may be why Google didn't help.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

[srojas...@yahoo.com.mx]

OOh! i get it now!, thank you very much!! :)

S.R.

[PAUL {HAMILTON ROONEY}]

You like "litterally"?
(-:

--
"THOSE WHO INDULGE IN CHEST-BEATING ABOUT HOW THEY ALWAYS WIN SEEM TO
OVERLOOK THE FACT THAT THE SO-CALLED SIG-ABUSERS ALWAYS WIN, TOO. USENET
IS LIKE THAT. IF SUCH MEANINGLESS LABELS ARE TO BE PRESSED INTO SERVICE,
THEN I WOULD SAY THAT PAUL HAS WON. NOT ONLY BY HIS UNDOUBTED STAMINA,
BUT BY THE SUSTAINED GRACE, CHARM, AND MISCHIEVOUS WIT OF HIS RESPONSES."
JAMES FOLLETT, NOVELIST (WRITING IN THE NEWSGROUP DEMON.LOCAL)

PAUL {HAMILTON ROONEY}

[tony cooper]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:30:58 -0800 (PST), srojas...@yahoo.com.mx
wrote:

The term "damning with faint praise" has been explained in other
posts, but I wonder if "feint" was really an error. There could be a
pun involved.

A "feint" is a mock attack aimed at one place as a distraction for
another attack to follow at a different place.

So, "feint praise" could be praise intended as misdirection for some
other, following, action or attack.

Depends on how clever the person is who provided the sentence.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:30:58 -0800 (PST), srojas...@yahoo.com.mx wrote:

>Hello everybody
>I wold like to know what "Damning with feint praise" means
>
>somebody in other group replied me with that
>but Imnot sure what that means
>i tried google translate and didnt quite get the meaning

It's the opposite of damning with fulsome praise.

Fulsome praise is too much praise, and faint praise is too little praise. In
either case, it is not really praise at all.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter Brooks]

On Nov 22, 10:38 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 04:30:58 -0800 (PST), srojasrami...@yahoo.com.mx wrote:
> >Hello everybody
> >I wold like to know what  "Damning with feint praise" means
>
> >somebody in other group replied me with that
> >but Imnot sure what that means
> >i tried google translate and didnt quite get the meaning
>
> It's the opposite of damning with fulsome praise.
>
> Fulsome praise is too much praise, and faint praise is too little praise. In
> either case, it is not really praise at all.
>

And feint praise is marginal praise.

[fabzorba]

Both "faint" and "feint" have a common derivation from the old French
"feinte" - false or deceitful. "Feint" is now only used in the sense
of an evasive move, but it did earlier mean "to deceive". So, "feint
praise" could mean praise which is deceitful and perhaps does the
opposite of what it purports to do. In that case, it would be a rather
cunning synonym for "faint praise".

[Peter Brooks]

I was referring to a term often used to describe school notebooks -
'feint and margin':

" [OED]
2.2 In commercial use, the usual spelling of faint a. 5 c; freq. quasi-
adv.

   1859 Stationers' Hand-bk. (ed. 2) 72 Feint only, the term for a
book having merely feint blue lines across the page from left to
right.    1895 Army & Navy Co-op. Soc. Price List 15 Sept. 525
Foolscap Paper—Ruled with Money Columns and Feint Lines.    1930
Publishers' Circ. 13 Sept. 321/2 The actual book itself should be of
foolscap size, ruled feint.
"

[Dr Nick]

I saw a machine for doing this in a museum recently. Quite brilliant:
it had an array of rods, pens (some with double nibs) that could be
clipped onto them and adjustable cams to lift the pens up and down as
appropriate. With two passes at 90 degrees it could make those huge
accounting charts.

[Steve Hayes]

How Irish of you!

[Mike L]

There's also "Praising with faint damns", which I've always wanted to
believe had a clear meaning.

--
Mike.

[navi]

I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

I am, as most of you know, not a native speaker. I had never heard the expression before, but to me "damning with feint praise" sounded more logical. To me it would mean:
damning through pretended praise

I thought "damning with feigned praise" could work too.
Interestingly, they both exist:

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22damning+with+feint+praise%22&num=10
(check out the second book)

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22damning+with+feint+praise%22&num=10#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=bks&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22damning+with+feigned+praise%22&oq=%22damning+with+feigned+praise%22&gs_l=serp.3...41027.42499.0.43157.6.6.0.0.0.3.616.1984.0j2j2j5-2.6.0...0.0...1c.1.3QnjuIy6UPI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=c7f5a45ac4a4514e&bpcl=38897761&biw=1093&bih=484

Only six here...

But do "damning with feint praise" and "damning with feint praise" mean the same thing? "Feint praise" need not necessarily be "faint".

Navi.

[Robert Bannister]

On 23/11/12 3:27 PM, Peter Brooks wrote:

> I was referring to a term often used to describe school notebooks -
> 'feint and margin':
>
> " [OED]
> 2.2 In commercial use, the usual spelling of faint a. 5 c; freq. quasi-
> adv.
>
> 1859 Stationers' Hand-bk. (ed. 2) 72 Feint only, the term for a
> book having merely feint blue lines across the page from left to
> right. 1895 Army & Navy Co-op. Soc. Price List 15 Sept. 525
> Foolscap Paper—Ruled with Money Columns and Feint Lines. 1930
> Publishers' Circ. 13 Sept. 321/2 The actual book itself should be of
> foolscap size, ruled feint.
> "
>

I am amazed. I have never come across that expression before.
Presumably, in stationery circles it's commonplace.
--
Robert Bannister

[Jack Campin]

>> I was referring to a term often used to describe school notebooks -
>> 'feint and margin':

>> 1859 Stationers' Hand-bk. (ed. 2) 72 Feint only, the term for a
>> book having merely feint blue lines across the page from left to
>> right.

> I am amazed. I have never come across that expression before.
> Presumably, in stationery circles it's commonplace.

It was also commonplace if you used school notebooks. I've known
it since I moved on from using slates at about age 9.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:ahadrt...@mid.individual.net...

> On 23/11/12 3:27 PM, Peter Brooks wrote:

> > I was referring to a term often used to describe school notebooks -
> > 'feint and margin':

> I am amazed. I have never come across that expression before. Presumably,
> in stationery circles it's commonplace.

I certainly remember it from childhood (usually "ruled feint and margin").
Can't tell you if it's still used.

--
Guy Barry

[fabzorba]

On 24 Nov, 09:46, navi <lorca1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I found this:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise
>
> I am, as most of you know, not a native speaker. I had never heard the expression before, but to me "damning with feint praise" sounded more logical. To me it would mean:
> damning through pretended praise
>
> I thought "damning with feigned praise" could work too.
> Interestingly, they both exist:
>

> https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22damning+with+feint+p...

> (check out the second book)
>

> https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22damning+with+feint+p...

>
> Only six here...
>
> But do "damning with feint praise" and "damning with feint praise" mean the same thing? "Feint praise" need not necessarily be "faint".
>

This excellent site (and I recommend it to all)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=feint&searchmode=none
notes that ''feint'' with the meaning ''to make a distracting or
deceptive maneuver" came about fairly late, in 1833, where it was
almost always associated with the sport of fencing. Prior to that, and
from the late 13th Century, it referred to a sham or something
deceitful. Those senses are now almost entirely obsolete, and OneLook
sources do not list them . The reference to ''feint ruled" paper,
where the lines are the narrowest they can be, is a variant of
''faint'' and the last vestige of the earlier use of the word.

''Faint'' is a cognate of ''feint'' and its primary meanings "soft,
weak, sluggish" is obviously related to the meanings of deceitful
embodied in ''feint''

Thanks to navi who was one of the few posters to address what I noted
earlier, and also to address the concerns of the OP.

Please note that OP did NOT ask about "damning with FAINT praise'',
though most respondents just assumed he did. Perhaps OP's ignorance of
our language has a Socratic element to it. I will have to credit Tony
Poole for picking up the feint / faint pun, as well as navi. Note
that faint / feigned / feint praise are all to be found in important
historical contexts, and all have subtle and interesting variations in
meaning. We might also compare the standard ''faint-hearted'' with the
more insidious ''feint-hearted''. Iago , in Othello, is the latter,
and everything but the former.

[Guy Barry]

"fabzorba" wrote in message
news:afa6f7e2-71b8-45b8...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

> I will have to credit Tony Poole for picking up the feint / faint pun

Oh, he's come back again, has he? I keep missing his posts for some reason.
Shame since he's clearly a very astute chap.

--
Guy Barry

[tony cooper]

I think he means Tony Cooper, not Tony Poole. I brought up the pun
aspect early on. "Poole" for "Cooper" is good for what's-his-face.
He got the double-letters and a "p" and an "e" right.

[Dr Nick]

Three black pegs and a white.

[Guy Barry]

"tony cooper" wrote in message
news:ihp1b85p9h8boka64...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:49:26 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> >"fabzorba" wrote in message
> >news:afa6f7e2-71b8-45b8...@nl3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> I will have to credit Tony Poole for picking up the feint / faint pun
>
> >Oh, he's come back again, has he? I keep missing his posts for some
> >reason.
> >Shame since he's clearly a very astute chap.

> I think he means Tony Cooper, not Tony Poole.

Of course he does. I put him right once, and he admitted his error. It
clearly hasn't stuck yet.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Dr Nick" wrote in message news:87ip8vy...@temporary-address.org.uk...

> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:

> > I think he means Tony Cooper, not Tony Poole. I brought up the pun
> > aspect early on. "Poole" for "Cooper" is good for what's-his-face.
> > He got the double-letters and a "p" and an "e" right.

> Three black pegs and a white.

Oh, you played "Master Mind" as well? Does it still exist? (The Wikipedia
entry calls it "Mastermind", but I'm sure it was two separate words.)

--
Guy Barry

[Dr Nick]

"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

> "Dr Nick" wrote in message
> news:87ip8vy...@temporary-address.org.uk...
>
>> tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> > I think he means Tony Cooper, not Tony Poole. I brought up the
>> > pun aspect early on. "Poole" for "Cooper" is good for
>> > what's-his-face. He got the double-letters and a "p" and an "e"
>> > right.
>
>> Three black pegs and a white.
>
> Oh, you played "Master Mind" as well? Does it still exist?

Oh yes. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-44220-Mastermind-Game/dp/B00028X2M8

> (The Wikipedia entry calls it "Mastermind", but I'm sure it was two
> separate words.)

The current box doesn't. Mine is at the parent's so I'll need to check
next time I visit.

[Guy Barry]

"Dr Nick" wrote in message news:87ehjjy...@temporary-address.org.uk...

> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

> > Oh, you played "Master Mind" as well? Does it still exist?

> Oh yes.
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-44220-Mastermind-Game/dp/B00028X2M8

> > (The Wikipedia entry calls it "Mastermind", but I'm sure it was two
> > separate words.)

> The current box doesn't. Mine is at the parent's so I'll need to check
> next time I visit.

Here's the box that I remember:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Mastermind?from=Main.Mastermind

The accompanying article calls it "Mastermind", but it's clearly written as
two words on the box. ("Mastermind" was always the BBC quiz show as far as
I'm concerned.)

--
Guy Barry

[Dr Nick]

Ah, but further search gives this: which looks just like I used to play:

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?cid=12358245419980986977

[and a further 5 minutes experimentation to get the URL down to
something under a page long]

Which certainly looks like two words, but could be one broken without a
hyphen I suppose!

Well I think that's part of the Christmas shopping problem solved.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Nov 24, 9:00 am, Dr Nick <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
> Dr Nick <nospa...@temporary-address.org.uk> writes:

> > "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> >> "Dr Nick" wrote in message
> >>news:87ip8vy...@temporary-address.org.uk...
>

> >>> tony cooper <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >>> > I think he means Tony Cooper, not Tony Poole.  I brought up the
> >>> > pun aspect early on.  "Poole" for "Cooper" is good for
> >>> > what's-his-face.  He got the double-letters and a "p" and an "e"
> >>> > right.
>
> >>> Three black pegs and a white.
> >> Oh, you played "Master Mind" as well?  Does it still exist?
>
> > Oh yes.
> >http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-44220-Mastermind-Game/dp/B00028X2M8
>
> >> (The Wikipedia entry calls it "Mastermind", but I'm sure it was two
> >> separate words.)
>
> > The current box doesn't.  Mine is at the parent's so I'll need to
> > check next time I visit.
>
> Ah, but further search gives this: which looks just like I used to play:
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?cid=12358245419980986977
>
> [and a further 5 minutes experimentation to get the URL down to
> something under a page long]
>
> Which certainly looks like two words, but could be one broken without a
> hyphen I suppose!
>
> Well I think that's part of the Christmas shopping problem solved.

Are pads for Jotto still sold? That was a very similar game to Word
Mastermind, as I understand it, but much cheaper (which might be a
reason not to give it as a Christmas present).

Wikipedia claims Endless Games sells it, but they don't list it even
under "games no longer in production".

http://www.endlessgames.com/instructions.html

Wikipedia also claims Mastermind is a lot like a pencil-and-paper game
called "bulls and cows".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_cows

--
Jerry Friedman

[Guy Barry]

"Jerry Friedman" wrote in message
news:7a6dc76f-1a26-456f...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...

> Wikipedia also claims Mastermind is a lot like a pencil-and-paper game
> called "bulls and cows".

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_cows

Oh, it is - indeed identical. I remember reading about "Bulls and Cows"
when I was very young, before "Master Mind" took off (although I see it was
invented in 1970, and first marketed in the UK by Invicta in 1971). A very
clever piece of marketing - rather as the Japanese took the established game
of Reversi and marketed it as "Othello" (as discussed recently).

--
Guy Barry

[abc]

PAUL {HAMILTON ROONEY} wrote:
> On 22-Nov-12 8:51 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:
>> On Nov 22, 12:41 pm, bob <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 22, 1:30 pm, srojasrami...@yahoo.com.mx wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everybody
>>>> I wold like to know what "Damning with feint praise" means
>>>
>>>> somebody in other group replied me with that
>>>> but Imnot sure what that means
>>>> i tried google translate and didnt quite get the meaning
>>>
>>>> My 1st language is not english
>>>
>>>> thank you in advance
>>>
>>> In many situations, to describe something that you don't like honestly
>>> would be considered rude. In such a situation, you might find a way
>>> of describing the thing you don't like so that, taken litterally, you
>>> are praising it, but you are placing so many restrictions on what you
>>> are saying, or are using a not very strong wording in your praise,
>>> that it is clear to the person listening to you that you actually
>>> don't like the thing. "The painting was destinctive due to its strong
>>> use of colour and imaginitive composition" might be a way of saying,
>>> "The painting had very poor use of colour and didn't look very good".
>>>
>>> Robin
>>
>> "distinctive", "imaginative", "faint praise".
>>
>
> You like "litterally"?

The garbage collectors in this part of town are litterally overworked.
abc

[Robert Bannister]

Of course I had exercise books at school, but they were "lined" - not
with silk though. Unlike the loose foolscap we had for our folders, the
books did not come with margins. Some kids passed the time while the
teachers were blathering on ruling margins all the way through, only to
discover later that they were not supposed to have a margin when they
drew a full-page diagram.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

It is hard to see how "feign" ties in with "soft, weak, sluggish",
whereas dictionaries say:
"1250–1300; Middle English fei ( g ) nen < Old French feign-, present
stem of feindre < Latin fingere to shape, invent, feign"
The past particple of French verbs ending in -eindre, -aindre always
have the form "-eint, -aint", so "feindre" produces "feint".

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

We played the game with pencil and paper long before the TV quiz -
possibly in the 60s, but I think 50s. I think we used a system of dots
and crosses. Since we never wrote the word down (this was before mobile
phones), none of us would have known whether we were saying Mastermind
as one word or two - how did Moriarty spell it?

--
Robert Bannister

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message

news:ahd1er...@mid.individual.net...

How can you have called it "Mastermind" or "Master Mind" when the game
wasn't marketed under that name until the 1970s? As already mentioned on
this thread, the traditional name was "Bulls and Cows". It may have gone by
other names but I can't see how you could have called it by the name of a
commercial version that hadn't yet been invented.

--
Guy Barry

[Jerry Friedman]

Other examples:

yacht -> Yahtzee
categories -> Facts in Five
go-moku -> Pente

--
Jerry Friedman

[R H Draney]

Jerry Friedman filted:
>
>On Nov 24, 10:38=A0am, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Jerry Friedman" =A0wrote in message

>>
>> news:7a6dc76f-1a26-456f...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Wikipedia also claims Mastermind is a lot like a pencil-and-paper game
>> > called "bulls and cows".
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_cows
>>

>> Oh, it is - indeed identical. =A0 I remember reading about "Bulls and Cow=
>s"
>> when I was very young, before "Master Mind" took off (although I see it w=
>as
>> invented in 1970, and first marketed in the UK by Invicta in 1971). =A0A =
>very
>> clever piece of marketing - rather as the Japanese took the established g=

>ame
>> of Reversi and marketed it as "Othello" (as discussed recently).
>
>Other examples:
>
>yacht -> Yahtzee
>categories -> Facts in Five
>go-moku -> Pente

ludo -> Sorry

....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Robert Bannister]

Because they didn't invent it; they marketed it.

--
Robert Bannister

[Jerry Friedman]

According to Wikipedia, pachisi -> Sorry! and Ludo

--
Jerry Friedman

[Dr Nick]

Only in the sense that whist->bridge (OK, I'm stretching it a bit).
Sorry isn't just ludo rebranded with (perhaps) a very small rule change.
The cards instead of the dice take it to a different level.

[Guy Barry]

"Robert Bannister" wrote in message

news:ahft0f...@mid.individual.net...

But if the game had already been commonly played under that name, they
wouldn't have been able to trademark the name.

As far as I can tell, the name was invented by Invicta Plastics, the
original manufacturers of the game:

" Mordecai Meirowitz was an Israeli postmaster and telecommunications expert
who invented the code-breaking board game Master Mind. Having been rejected
by the leading games companies, he managed to interest a Leicester-based
Company, Invicta Plastics, which restyled and renamed the game. Released in
1971, the game sold over 50 million sets in 80 countries, making it the most
successful new game of the 1970s. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordecai_Meirowitz - see also

" Mastermind or Master Mind is a code-breaking game for two players. The
modern game with pegs was invented in 1970 by Mordecai Meirowitz, an Israeli
postmaster and telecommunications expert, but the game resembles an earlier
pencil and paper game called bulls and cows that may date back a century or
more. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_%28board_game%29

--
Guy Barry

[R H Draney]

Dr Nick filted:

>
>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> writes:
>
>> Jerry Friedman filted:
>>>

>>>yacht -> Yahtzee
>>>categories -> Facts in Five
>>>go-moku -> Pente
>>
>> ludo -> Sorry
>
>Only in the sense that whist->bridge (OK, I'm stretching it a bit).
>Sorry isn't just ludo rebranded with (perhaps) a very small rule change.
>The cards instead of the dice take it to a different level.

Cards?...somebody break your Pop-O-Matic?...r

[Dr Nick]

R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> writes:

> Dr Nick filted:
>>
>>R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> writes:
>>
>>> Jerry Friedman filted:
>>>>
>>>>yacht -> Yahtzee
>>>>categories -> Facts in Five
>>>>go-moku -> Pente
>>> ludo -> Sorry
>>
>>Only in the sense that whist->bridge (OK, I'm stretching it a bit).
>>Sorry isn't just ludo rebranded with (perhaps) a very small rule
>> change.
>>The cards instead of the dice take it to a different level.
>
> Cards?...somebody break your Pop-O-Matic?...r

Sorry has cards. That's what distinguishes it from Ludo (I've got a
ludo with a pop dice thing, but I've played it with kit from before
those were invented).