Corpses vs Bodies

[HVS]

This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
"corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
on both sides of the road.")

There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
gruesome than "body". (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies,
where it's definitely the case that corpses rather than bodies are re-
animatead...)

Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
than a more neutral term?

--
Cheers, Harvey

[Madhu]

* HVS <XnsAE8C848E...@144.76.35.252> :
Wrote on Tue, 03 May 2022 13:01:50 +0100:

> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
> than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
> editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
> than a more neutral term?

I'm a cadaver, you're a corpse, he's a carcase.

[bruce bowser]

That's carcass, BTW.

[Hibou]

I'm not sure I see 'corpse' as stronger than 'dead body' - but then, I
have long since given up watching horror films.

Indeed, while I was mulling the question, actors and the verb came to mind.

If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.

[HVS]

On 04 May 2022, Stefan Ram wrote

> HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse"
>> stronger than "body"?
>

> "Body" can also mean the living body. It is not a euphemism
> when used for "corpse", but the perceived connection of the
> word to death is weaker.

I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
much.

--
Cheers, Harvey

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 03/05/2022 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
>>
>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>> on both sides of the road.")
>>
>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>> gruesome than "body". (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies,
>> where it's definitely the case that corpses rather than bodies are re-
>> animatead...)
>>
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
>> than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
>> editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
>> than a more neutral term?
>
>I'm not sure I see 'corpse' as stronger than 'dead body'

Nor do I.

>- but then, I
>have long since given up watching horror films.
>
>Indeed, while I was mulling the question, actors and the verb came to mind.
>
>If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.

"Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

[Ken Blake]

On 4 May 2022 12:07:06 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

>HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>>Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
>>than "body"?
>

> "Body" can also mean the living body.

"Can" mean? Yes, but not if "bodies" is substituted for "corpses" in
the quoted sentence "We saw corpses lying on both sides of the road."

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 04 May 2022 15:11:15 +0100, HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

No, your assumption is correct.

[Quinn C]

* Stefan Ram:

> HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>>I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
>>first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
>>much.
>

> "Body" can mean "dead body" even without the adjective "dead".
>
>|body, n.
> ...
>|2. A corpse.  [Perhaps originally a euphemistic shortening of
>|"dead body", although this sense is common in Old High German
>|(see discussion in main etymology).]
> ...
>|as soon as the body is deposited in the grave,
> ...
>|In the ghastly pit long since a body was found.
> ...
>|A heavy object was dragged across the deck. A body, by God...
> ...
>|When I dead an' gone I don' care you know, you could feed my
>|body to dog.
> ...
>|He had decided to have his body cremated and scattered over
>|the Ganges River.

I don't think "body" *means* "dead body" in these examples. It is
understood that most of these things would only be done to a body when
it's dead, so "dead" is left out. It's not the context that
disambiguates language, language disambiguates what isn't already clear
in context (C. F. Hockett).

The body that is dragged is an exception - it might be alive, for all I
know.

--
- History is full of lies.
- Ain't that the truth.
-- Andromeda, S04E12

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."

--
Sam Plusnet

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On 4 May 2022 19:36:19 GMT
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass
>
> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from
> writing "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must
> be a "lyke".
>
> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle;
> I suggest to also listen to the version by "The Young
> Tradition"!)

I'm not that up on these things, but there's a Lyke Wake Walk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyke_Wake_Walk
Ah to memoralise (word?) the dirge.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Quinn C]

* Stefan Ram:

> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass

Ah yes, the one dictionary of English in existence!

--
New Zealand - or as we call it in South Africa: New Zedland ...
-- Trevor Noah

[Sam Plusnet]

On 04-May-22 20:36, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes:

> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass
>

> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from
> writing "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must
> be a "lyke".
>
> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle;
> I suggest to also listen to the version by "The Young
> Tradition"!)

Here are more bodies than you can shake a stick at (all alive alive-o):

Comin thro' the Rye
BY ROBERT BURNS

Gin a body meet a body, comin thro' the rye,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body cry;
Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I;
But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.

Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the well,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body tell;
Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I,
But a the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.

Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the town,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body gloom;
Ilka Jenny has her Jockey, ne'er a ane hae I,
But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.



--
Sam Plusnet

[CDB]

On 5/4/2022 3:36 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes:

>> Ken Blake wrote:

>>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>> ?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."

> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".

> The dictionary is quite simple:

> body 1. human being (in its physicality) 2. carcasss

> corpse 1. carcass

> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from writing
> "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must be a "lyke".

You could check under the lych-gate.

"Lyke" is the Scottish or northern version of the word; "lych" is the
southern.

> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle; I suggest to
> also listen to the version by "The Young Tradition"!)

Or Buffy Sainte-Marie.

[Lewis]

In message <XnsAE8C848E...@144.76.35.252> HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
> on both sides of the road.")

I think corpses is the right word.

> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
> gruesome than "body".

That is one reason that corpse is the right word.

> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)

Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.

A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
on up.

> Is this a personal quirk of mine

It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?

--
Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cosy,
doesn't try it on -- Billy Connolly

[Lewis]

In message <41757htop5bl1j1ro...@4ax.com> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

Strong disagreement.

Bodies can be wounded people, or dead cats. Or live cats sleeping next
to the road, for that matter.

Yes, when talking about a war, saying 'bodies' will probably the same
meaning as 'corpses' but a much weaker sense.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but pants with horizontal stripes make me look
chubby."

[Hibou]

Le 04/05/2022 à 16:31, Ken Blake a écrit :

> On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>> it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>> mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.
>
> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

I think the default meaning depends on context. After the massacre,
there were bodies everywhere. The beach was packed with bodies sunning
themselves. She had a beautiful body.

The saying "Over my dead body!" just doesn't work without the 'dead'.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2022-05-05 23:18:14 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <XnsAE8C848E...@144.76.35.252> HVS
> <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>> on both sides of the road.")
>
> I think corpses is the right word.
>
>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>> gruesome than "body".
>
> That is one reason that corpse is the right word.
>
>> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
>> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)
>
> Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.
>
> A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
> on up.
>
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine
>
> It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?

Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever,
and it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in
American speech.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Snidely]

Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:

Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).

/dps


--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

[Peter Moylan]

I vaguely remember that the Wizard of Id once had a reanimated corpse
called Abra Cadaver.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Lewis]

Cadaver is pretty much restricted to medical/legal use, AFAIK. It is a perfect
synonym for corpse, but has a more clinical/technical feeling to it.
Cadaver is a word I expect from coroners, morgue attendants, possibly
morticians, cops, and not geneally from anyone else.


--
Secondly, the Earth's a Libra

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 6 May 2022 06:29:07 +0100, Hibou <h...@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 04/05/2022 à 16:31, Ken Blake a écrit :
>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>>> it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>>> mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.
>>
>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>
>I think the default meaning depends on context. After the massacre,
>there were bodies everywhere. The beach was packed with bodies sunning
>themselves. She had a beautiful body.

Yes, my point exactly. "Dead body" was redundant in the quoted
passage..

[Ken Blake]

I don't remember ever hearing it in American speech, but I've often
seen it in novels. But it's almost always in reference to what a post
mortem is being done on.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 06 May 2022 08:37:06 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

Hearing it in speech would be problematical, but if you hung around
police departments you might hear them speak of "cadaver sniffing
dogs".

If you live near the University of Tennessee, you might hear someone
discussing the "Body Farm" at the Forensic Anthropology Center where
cadavers are placed.

If you were around medical students, the subject of cadavers might be
mentioned in conversations. They are not doing post mortems, though.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Adam Funk]

But is it exquisite?


--
And don't forget my dog, fixed and consequent

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-06, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
> [cadaver]

>>I don't remember ever hearing it in American speech, but I've often
>>seen it in novels. But it's almost always in reference to what a post
>>mortem is being done on.
>

> Some hits from my text collection (capitalization as in the source):
>
> From dictionaries/thesauruses/slang or associative dictionaries:
>
>|pse corpse corse carcass cadaver bones skeleton dry bones defunct
>|portant derivatives are: cadaver, cadence, cascade, case, chance
>|: body, corpse, carcass, cadaver. These nouns denote the physical
>|rcass in good condition. Cadaver is a corpse used for dissection
>|nder, rotter, dog, rake. CADAVER n. stiff, cold meat, dead meat,
>|ies. 1. Examination of a cadaver to determine or confirm the caus
>|OFFIN, BOX, .006 COFFIN, CADAVER, .006 COFFIN, CLOSE, .006 COFFIN
>|RY, BODY, .007 CEMETERY, CADAVER, .007 CEMETERY, COFFIN, .007 CEM
>|KET, CACHE, .008 CASKET, CADAVER, .008 CASKET, FLOWER, .008 CASKE

I see you're doing a keyword in context search, but what in the world
are the last three matches above from, a funerary catalogue?




>
> From fiction:
>
>|istic priests. The stale cadaver blocks up the passage ­ the buri
>|w my stark and mutilated cadaver stretched upon a slab where cool
>|aint at the sight of the cadaver; sank to the ground in a swoon;
>
> From nonfiction:
>
>|he gracious way to let a cadaver cutter, a tax collector, or a ca
>
>


--
It's a tasty world.

[Tony Cooper]

Additional thoughts...the difference between a dead body and a cadaver
seems to be how long after death the body is described.

A policeman might find a dead body in a house, but if the deceased
died a few months ago and was discovered in the woods, the body would
be a cadaver.

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:55:36 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I forgot about medical schools.

[Snidely]

Friday, Stefan Ram observed:

> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
> nonfiction overall.

What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?


Also, "Should I add" is a question formm and I'd expect a question
mark where you have a comma. Or I'd expect "I should add" to start the
question. As it stands, this form of inversion would be incorrect in
English (I'm not worried about confusing HK here).

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 06 May 2022 11:29:23 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>

When I was in surgical instrument/equipment sales in Indiana, the
Purchasing Agent at Indiana University Medical Center sent me to the
dissection lab to compile a list of instruments they would need for an
expansion they were planning.

A number of medical students were dissecting cadavers. I went through
the room where the cadavers that were to be used for the next batch of
students were kept. They were in compartments in the floor floating
in some solution to preserve them. The compartments were covered with
thick wooden lids that took two people to lift. I assume the wood
absorbed the fumes.

I finished about noon, but went directly home to change clothes and
shower. I felt that smell of the chemicals (something like or
containing formaldehyde) had left with me.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-05-06 12:32, Snidely wrote:
> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:
>
>>   . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
>>   fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
>>   that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>>   nonfiction overall.
>
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
>
>
> Also, "Should I add"  is a question formm and I'd expect a question mark
> where you have a comma.  Or I'd expect "I should add" to start the
> question.  As it stands, this form of inversion would be incorrect in
> English (I'm not worried about confusing HK here).

"I should add" does not start a question.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:32:27 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:

> > . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
> > fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
> > that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
> > nonfiction overall.
>
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?

The Excluded Middle.

[Snidely]

Snidely scribbled something on Friday the 5/6/2022:

> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:
>
>> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
>> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
>> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>> nonfiction overall.
>
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
>
>
> Also, "Should I add" is a question formm

mmmmmm
[insert Humming Chorus]

> and I'd expect a question mark
> where you have a comma. Or I'd expect "I should add" to start the question.

Erp .. "to start the sentence", of course, or "to start the statement".

> As it stands, this form of inversion would be incorrect in English (I'm not
> worried about confusing HK here).

/dps

--

"That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is
crucial, and yet not the answer."
Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,
Stanford.,2020

[Quinn C]

* Snidely:

> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:
>
>> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
>> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
>> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>> nonfiction overall.
>
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?

Diaries, letters, news?

At least I'm not usually thinking of news when I hear "nonfiction", but
primarily of "literary nonfiction", i.e. books and essayistic articles.

--
CW: Historical misogyny
Jbzna vf n cnve bs binevrf jvgu n uhzna orvat nggnpurq, jurernf
zna vf n uhzna orvat sheavfurq jvgu n cnve bs grfgrf.
-- Rudolf Virchow

[Quinn C]

* Stefan Ram:

> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
> [cadaver]

>>I don't remember ever hearing it in American speech, but I've often
>>seen it in novels. But it's almost always in reference to what a post
>>mortem is being done on.
>

> Some hits from my text collection (capitalization as in the source):
>
> From dictionaries/thesauruses/slang or associative dictionaries:
>
>|pse corpse corse carcass cadaver bones skeleton dry bones defunct
>|portant derivatives are: cadaver, cadence, cascade, case, chance
>|: body, corpse, carcass, cadaver. These nouns denote the physical
>|rcass in good condition. Cadaver is a corpse used for dissection
>|nder, rotter, dog, rake. CADAVER n. stiff, cold meat, dead meat,
>|ies. 1. Examination of a cadaver to determine or confirm the caus
>|OFFIN, BOX, .006 COFFIN, CADAVER, .006 COFFIN, CLOSE, .006 COFFIN
>|RY, BODY, .007 CEMETERY, CADAVER, .007 CEMETERY, COFFIN, .007 CEM
>|KET, CACHE, .008 CASKET, CADAVER, .008 CASKET, FLOWER, .008 CASKE
>

> From fiction:
>
>|istic priests. The stale cadaver blocks up the passage ­ the buri
>|w my stark and mutilated cadaver stretched upon a slab where cool
>|aint at the sight of the cadaver; sank to the ground in a swoon;
>
> From nonfiction:
>
>|he gracious way to let a cadaver cutter, a tax collector, or a ca

In German, a "Kadaver" is normally the dead body of an animal. Using it
for a human body could be interpreted as lack of respect, or it could
express that the body has been treated with lack of respect, e.g. in war
(left on the ground, thrown into a mass grave).

I guess "carcass" is a close English equivalent.

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 6 May 2022 18:36:35 -0400, Quinn C
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Snidely:
>
>> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:
>>
>>> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
>>> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
>>> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>>> nonfiction overall.
>>
>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
>
>Diaries, letters, news?

And perhaps, most common, speech.

[Lewis]

I've definitely hear it spoken in both TV and movies. Not sue I've ever
heard it in conversation with a person I was within 'social distance'
of outside of a role-playing game.

One that I can recall is in the movie Prisoners, "We're deploying
cadaver dogs." If you've seen this movie, I would expect you would
remember this line.

I'm pretty sire the quote is in one of the early Underworld movies, but it
might be one of the Blade movies.

--
Thanks to great leaders such as Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, and
Socratic Method, the world is full of history.

[Lewis]

In message <mn.32b47e65d1fb425a.127094@snitoo> Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?

Reality.

--
In the velvet darkness of the blackest night Burning bright There's a
guiding star

[Madhu]

* Ken Blake <cufa7h1spkn1napdplandbcb8abpainbj7 @4ax.com> :
Wrote on Fri, 06 May 2022 08:34:39 -0700:

> On Fri, 6 May 2022 06:29:07 +0100, Hibou
>

>>Le 04/05/2022 à 16:31, Ken Blake a écrit :
>>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>>>> it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>>>> mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.
>>>
>>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>>
>>I think the default meaning depends on context. After the massacre,
>>there were bodies everywhere. The beach was packed with bodies sunning
>>themselves. She had a beautiful body.

[I think you (H.b)'re misrepresenting HVS original-post a bit.]
Ob. Agatha Christie, she used this pun on "bodies" in the plot (and
execution) of /Evil under the Sun/

> Yes, my point exactly. "Dead body" was redundant in the quoted
> passage..

it wasn't quoted because the passage didn't use it. Instead it used
"corpse" for effect

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-06, Snidely wrote:

> Friday, Stefan Ram observed:
>
>> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
>> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows
>> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>> nonfiction overall.
>
> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?

tertium quid


--
I have a great programming joke but it's only
funny on my machine.

[Mark Brader]

Stefan Ram:
>>> ...the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>>> nonfiction overall.

"D.P.S.":

>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?

Adam Funk:
> tertium quid

The question was what's left, not how much it costs!
--
Mark Brader | "One reason that life is complex is that it has
Toronto | a real part and an imaginary part."
m...@vex.net | --Andrew Koenig

[Hibou]

Le 07/05/2022 à 17:09, Madhu a écrit :
>
> [I think you (H.b)'re misrepresenting HVS original-post a bit.]

I was exploring the default meaning of 'body'. As to the OP's sample
sentence, 'dead' before 'bodies', though not necessary, is a valid
stylistic choice, I think. Or one could write: "We saw the dead lying on

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-06, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>>On 2022-05-06, Stefan Ram wrote:

> ...

>>>|OFFIN, BOX, .006 COFFIN, CADAVER, .006 COFFIN, CLOSE, .006 COFFIN
>>>|RY, BODY, .007 CEMETERY, CADAVER, .007 CEMETERY, COFFIN, .007 CEM
>>>|KET, CACHE, .008 CASKET, CADAVER, .008 CASKET, FLOWER, .008 CASKE
>>I see you're doing a keyword in context search, but what in the world
>>are the last three matches above from, a funerary catalogue?
>

> From a "Free Association" dictionary. In my quotation,
> clarity was somewhat lost because several different lines
> were merged into a single line. Actually those three lines are:
>
>|CASKET, CADAVER, .008
>|CEMETERY, CADAVER, .007
>|COFFIN, CADAVER, .006

>
> . Should add that I usually get more hits for most words in
> fiction and nonfiction, so the small number of hits shows

> that the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
> nonfiction overall.

So what is the Free Assocation dictionary that you are using, & what
are the numbers at the end --- scores of some kind?


--
A lot of people never use their intiative because no-one
told them to. ---Banksy

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-07, Mark Brader wrote:

> Stefan Ram:
>>>> ...the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>>>> nonfiction overall.
>
> "D.P.S.":
>>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
>
> Adam Funk:
>> tertium quid
>
> The question was what's left, not how much it costs!

In old money you could divide it evenly by 3.


--
I've had a few myself, he said,
but I never quit when I'm ahead

[charles]

In article <a5vmkix...@news.ducksburg.com>,

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2022-05-07, Mark Brader wrote:

> > Stefan Ram:
> >>>> ...the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
> >>>> nonfiction overall.
> >
> > "D.P.S.":
> >>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
> >
> > Adam Funk:
> >> tertium quid
> >
> > The question was what's left, not how much it costs!

> In old money you could divide it evenly by 3.

= 6/8d

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Richard Heathfield]

On 09/05/2022 9:15 am, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-07, Mark Brader wrote:
>
>> Stefan Ram:
>>>>> ...the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
>>>>> nonfiction overall.
>>
>> "D.P.S.":
>>>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
>>
>> Adam Funk:
>>> tertium quid
>>
>> The question was what's left, not how much it costs!
>
> In old money you could divide it evenly by 3.

Also by 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 16, 20, 24, 30, 40, 48, 60,
80, 120, 240, 480, and in elder days even 960. I'd like to see a
dollar do *that*!

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Hibou]

Le 09/05/2022 à 10:52, Richard Heathfield a écrit :
> On 09/05/2022 9:15 am, Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> In old money you could divide it evenly by 3.
>
> Also by 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 16, 20, 24, 30, 40, 48, 60, 80,
> 120, 240, 480, and in elder days even 960. I'd like to see a dollar do
> *that*!

Yes, there was much to be said for £sd - not only was it highly
divisible, but it was good for people's mental arithmetic, had a
vocabulary all of its own (tanner, bob, crown...), and confused Johnny
Foreigner. Guineas were a bit of a cheat, though.

[Sam Plusnet]

And yet the Guinea (after a fashion) is still with us, 50 years after
the rest shuffled off.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Hibou]

There I don't follow you.

[Richard Heathfield]

1 guinea = 1 pound 1 shilling, ie £1.05.

Certain kinds of transactions are frequently (but not always)
priced in guineas, even today --- eg the sale of horses or land
(but not guinea pigs).

[Hibou]

Le 10/05/2022 à 08:28, Richard Heathfield a écrit :
> On 10/05/2022 8:17 am, Hibou wrote:
>> Le 09/05/2022 à 19:20, Sam Plusnet a écrit :
>>>
>>> And yet the Guinea (after a fashion) is still with us, 50 years after
>>> the rest shuffled off.
>>
>> There I don't follow you.
>
> 1 guinea = 1 pound 1 shilling, ie £1.05.
>
> Certain kinds of transactions are frequently (but not always) priced in
> guineas, even today --- eg the sale of horses or land (but not guinea
> pigs).

Thanks. It's yonks since I've heard mention of guineas, perhaps because
I never buy land or horses. I remember them as a way of inflating prices
without changing the visible number - £10 gns vs £10 etc..

There was also a peculiar practice of quoting prices above £1 without
using that unit - 99s 6d, for example - also deceitful, since something
priced in shillings could not possibly cost anywhere near £5, could it?

[Hibou]

Le 10/05/2022 à 08:50, Hibou a écrit :
>
> Thanks. It's yonks since I've heard mention of guineas, perhaps because
> I never buy land or horses. I remember them as a way of inflating prices
> without changing the visible number - £10 gns vs £10 etc..

... 10 gns vs £10, of course

Slip of the keyboard.

[J. J. Lodder]

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 09/05/2022 9:15 am, Adam Funk wrote:
> > On 2022-05-07, Mark Brader wrote:
> >
> >> Stefan Ram:
> >>>>> ...the word "cadaver" is rarely used in fiction and
> >>>>> nonfiction overall.
> >>
> >> "D.P.S.":
> >>>> What's left when fiction and nonfiction have been removed?
> >>
> >> Adam Funk:
> >>> tertium quid
> >>
> >> The question was what's left, not how much it costs!
> >
> > In old money you could divide it evenly by 3.
>
> Also by 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 16, 20, 24, 30, 40, 48, 60,
> 80, 120, 240, 480, and in elder days even 960. I'd like to see a
> dollar do *that*!

Dollars and cents was one of the few things
that the Americans did get right.
(thanks to Thomas Jefferson)

He failed them on the metric system however.
(Jefferson wasn't really the kind of scientific genius
that Americans take him for)
Initially Jefferson was very much in favour of it.
He changed his mind when the metric founding fathers
(on initiative of Borda, and a much better choice)
decided to opt for the meridian of Paris
instead of the length of the seconds pendulum (at 45 degrees latitude)
as the basis for the system.

Jefferson did not understand that there is no good reason
for assuming without verification
that the lenght of the seconds pendulum near New York
must be the same as that of one in southern France, at 45 degrees.
(so carrying and comparing prototype meters was necessary anyway)

The more practical reason was that despite all of its proud independence
the USA was still effectively an economic colony
that depended for most of its manufactured goods on Britain,
hence on British standards,

Jan

[Ken Blake]

Just go to Buffalo.

[Adam Funk]

> So far have assumed that the numbers would give the strength
> of the association. Some dictionaries I find in an "as is"
> state - just the body without accompanying information about
> authors, creation, and such.

So what is a free association dictionary --- the result of one
person's free association notes? I tried googling the phrase and just
got definitions of "free association".


--
When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him
whose? ---Don Marquis

[Richard Heathfield]

On 11/05/2022 10:38 am, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-09, Stefan Ram wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>>> So what is the Free Assocation dictionary that you are using, & what
>>> are the numbers at the end --- scores of some kind?
>>
>> So far have assumed that the numbers would give the strength
>> of the association. Some dictionaries I find in an "as is"
>> state - just the body without accompanying information about
>> authors, creation, and such.
>
> So what is a free association dictionary

No, not dictionary, association football.

Football team eleven o'clock break mend glue stick insect earwig
o earwig o earwig o football association.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Wed, 11 May 2022 10:50:54 +0100
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 11/05/2022 10:38 am, Adam Funk wrote:
> > On 2022-05-09, Stefan Ram wrote:
> >
> >> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
> >>> So what is the Free Assocation dictionary that you are using, & what
> >>> are the numbers at the end --- scores of some kind?
> >>
> >> So far have assumed that the numbers would give the strength
> >> of the association. Some dictionaries I find in an "as is"
> >> state - just the body without accompanying information about
> >> authors, creation, and such.
> >
> > So what is a free association dictionary
>
> No, not dictionary, association football.
>
> Football team eleven o'clock break mend glue stick insect earwig
> o earwig o earwig o football association.

Python coding editor headline worried.



--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[CDB]

On 5/11/2022 5:38 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> Stefan Ram wrote:

>> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>>> So what is the Free Assocation dictionary that you are using, &
>>> what are the numbers at the end --- scores of some kind?

>> So far have assumed that the numbers would give the strength of the
>> association. Some dictionaries I find in an "as is" state - just
>> the body without accompanying information about authors, creation,
>> and such.

> So what is a free association dictionary --- the result of one
> person's free association notes? I tried googling the phrase and
> just got definitions of "free association".

Roget, maybe?

[Adam Funk]

AFAIK, the book that sounds like a dinosaur but looks like a
dictionary is made deliberately & thoughtfully (not like free
association), & doesn't have values (scores?) after each word in an
entry.

--
No right of private conversation was enumerated in the Constitution.
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone at the time that it could be
prevented. ---Whitfield Diffie

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Den 11-05-2022 kl. 17:03 skrev Stefan Ram:
> I have tried to find out a little more about the
> list of words I have quoted from here and found this in the
> World-Wide Web:

There you go again! Why provide such a vague reference,
when it would be simple for you to provide the specific URL
<http://w3.usf.edu/FreeAssociation/Intro.html>

> |The University of South Florida Word Association, Rhyme and
> |Word Fragment Norms

/Anders, Denmark

[Adam Funk]

On 2022-05-11, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:

> Den 11-05-2022 kl. 17:03 skrev Stefan Ram:
>> I have tried to find out a little more about the
>> list of words I have quoted from here and found this in the
>> World-Wide Web:
>
> There you go again! Why provide such a vague reference,
> when it would be simple for you to provide the specific URL
><http://w3.usf.edu/FreeAssociation/Intro.html>

Yes, thanks!

And going one level up
<http://w3.usf.edu/FreeAssociation/>
gives the links to the files themselves.

>> |The University of South Florida Word Association, Rhyme and
>> |Word Fragment Norms
>
> /Anders, Denmark

--
Cats don't have friends. They have co-conspirators.
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2015/05/31

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:06:14 AM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:

[corpse, [dead] body]

> > Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever, and
> > it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in American
> > speech.

> Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
> would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).

I know why you used the word "bucket".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I could have mentioned that although the noun cadaver is one I nevee
use, the adjective cadaverous is an ordinary word for me.


--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Tony Cooper]

It's pronounced "boo kay", you know.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 18-May-22 18:08, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman

>> I know why you used the word "bucket".
>
> It's pronounced "boo kay", you know.

You made me jump!

--
Sam Plusnet

[bruce bowser]

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:08:11 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:06:14 AM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:
> >
> >[corpse, [dead] body]
> >
> >> > Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever, and
> >> > it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in American
> >> > speech.
> >
> >> Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
> >> would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).
> >
> >I know why you used the word "bucket".
>
> It's pronounced "boo kay", you know.

bi-eww-kay ?

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-05-18 11:08, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:06:14 AM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:
>>
>> [corpse, [dead] body]
>>
>>>> Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever, and
>>>> it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in American
>>>> speech.
>>
>>> Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
>>> would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).
>>
>> I know why you used the word "bucket".
>
> It's pronounced "boo kay", you know.

Still keeping up appearances, I see.

--
The name is LaFong. Carl LaFong.
Capital L, small a, capital F, small o, small n, small g.
-WCF

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Wed, 18 May 2022 13:14:54 -0600
lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-18 11:08, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> > <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 4:06:14 AM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:
> >>
> >> [corpse, [dead] body]
> >>
> >>>> Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever, and
> >>>> it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in American
> >>>> speech.
> >>
> >>> Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
> >>> would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).
> >>
> >> I know why you used the word "bucket".
> >
> > It's pronounced "boo kay", you know.
>
> Still keeping up appearances, I see.
>

Nah, a bookay issa bunchuv flars. As ane fule kno.

[Sam Plusnet]

If you want to offer a lady some wine, get one with a nice bookay.

--
Sam Plusnet

[bil...@shaw.ca]

There's a hole in your boo kay.

bill

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

You want straw?! to fix that!?