Joyce: capuchin dress
Marius Hancu
---
The director had begun to speak of the dominican and franciscan orders
and of the friendship between saint Thomas and saint Bonaventure. The
capuchin dress, he thought, was rather too ...
Stephen's face gave back the priest's indulgent smile and, not being
anxious to give an opinion, he made a slight dubitative movement with
his lips.
— I believe, continued the director, that there is some talk now among
the capuchins themselves of doing away with it and following the
example of the other franciscans.
James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
---
What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
other monks'?
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Cheryl
> Hello:
>
> ---
> The director had begun to speak of the dominican and franciscan orders
> and of the friendship between saint Thomas and saint Bonaventure. The
> capuchin dress, he thought, was rather too ...
>
> Stephen's face gave back the priest's indulgent smile and, not being
> anxious to give an opinion, he made a slight dubitative movement with
> his lips.
>
> the capuchins themselves of doing away with it and following the
> example of the other franciscans.
>
> James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
> ---
>
> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
> other monks'?
>
> --
> Thanks.
> Marius Hancu
They wore special hoods, I think, as a part of their habit.
Yes, apparantly they wore a hood that was originally worn by hermits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Friars_Minor_Capuchin
At one time, all nuns and monks wore distictive habits, so you could
tell which order they belonged to from the colour and style of their
habits and headdresses.
--
Cheryl
--
Cheryl
James Hogg
> On 2011-09-07 1:37 PM, Marius Hancu wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> ---
>> The director had begun to speak of the dominican and franciscan orders
>> and of the friendship between saint Thomas and saint Bonaventure. The
>> capuchin dress, he thought, was rather too ...
>>
>> Stephen's face gave back the priest's indulgent smile and, not being
>> anxious to give an opinion, he made a slight dubitative movement with
>> his lips.
>>
>> the capuchins themselves of doing away with it and following the
>> example of the other franciscans.
>>
>> James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
>> ---
>>
>> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
>> other monks'?
>>
>> --
>> Thanks.
>> Marius Hancu
>
>
> They wore special hoods, I think, as a part of their habit.
>
> Yes, apparantly they wore a hood that was originally worn by hermits.
They even take their name from the capuche or hood.
--
James
Horace LaBadie
James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
Not from the little monkey they habitually lead about?
Ian Noble
Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks. Hants.)
G Daeb
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:00:23 -0400, Horace LaBadie
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <j486o6$48...@dont-email.me>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
The hoods are also known as "cowls" and
references to this can be found in place
names in Britain's Woollen Districts.
Examples of the practice of naming monks
after the colours of their habits can be found
in street names in areas with a strong
monastic tradition prior to HenryVIII's
establishment of the Anglican communion;
London has both a Blackfriars and White-
friars, there were also Greyfriars. I seem
to recall at least one fictional school being
given that name.
G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2011 SIPSTON
--
Horace LaBadie
Peter Moylan
> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
> other monks'?
I read somewhere that cappucino was named after the dirty habits of the
capuchin monks.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
StephenCalder
coffee with froth and shaved chocolate.
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
StephenCalder
> Marius Hancu wrote:
>
>> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
>> other monks'?
>
> I read somewhere that cappucino was named after the dirty habits of the
> capuchin monks.
>
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Peter Moylan
Marius Hancu
>
> > ---
> > The director had begun to speak of the dominican and franciscan orders
> > and of the friendship between saint Thomas and saint Bonaventure. The
> > capuchin dress, he thought, was rather too ...
>
> > Stephen's face gave back the priest's indulgent smile and, not being
> > anxious to give an opinion, he made a slight dubitative movement with
> > his lips.
>
> > the capuchins themselves of doing away with it and following the
> > example of the other franciscans.
>
> > James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
> > ---
>
> > What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
> > other monks'?
>
>
>
> Yes, apparantly they wore a hood that was originally worn by hermits.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Friars_Minor_Capuchin
>
> At one time, all nuns and monks wore distictive habits, so you could
> tell which order they belonged to from the colour and style of their
> habits and headdresses.
I think it might have been something more specific.
Thank you all.
Marius Hancu
Marius Hancu
Marius Hancu
James Silverton
> StephenCalder wrote:
>> On 8/09/2011 10:31 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> Marius Hancu wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
>>>> other monks'?
>>>
>>> I read somewhere that cappucino was named after the dirty habits of the
>>> capuchin monks.
>>>
>>
>> Cappuccino!
>>
>>
>>
> Oops.
>
I wonder if someone can tell me the actual difference between friars and
monks? I am informed that monks live in monasteries and friars in the
world but in "communities". What is the difference between a community
and a monastery? As a child I attended a church run by clergy who
attached OSB to their names but they did not live in a monastery even if
"OSB" indicates a benedictine monk.
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
Cheryl
who are following a strict rule - I think usually the contemplative ones
- live in monasteries and the ones who go around working as nurses or
teachers take less restrictive vows and live in convents. Maybe a friary
is a convent for men.
Nowadays, the few nuns left may have other living arrangements - some
share apartments or an ordinary house, while the very elderly live in
nursing homes or wings of convents adapted for that purpose - a local
convent converted part of their property for the very elderly and sick
nuns who couldn't manage living in the old buildings any more and one in
Quebec sold their massive old convent building for conversion to a
seniors' home or nursing home, keeping one section fro their own seniors.
--
Cheryl
Leslie Danks
> On 2011-09-08 3:52 PM, James Silverton wrote:
>> On 9/8/2011 9:03 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> StephenCalder wrote:
>>>> On 8/09/2011 10:31 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> Marius Hancu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's so special about the capuchin dress in comparison with the
>>>>>> other monks'?
>>>>>
>>>>> I read somewhere that cappucino was named after the dirty habits of
>>>>> the capuchin monks.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cappuccino!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Oops.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if someone can tell me the actual difference between friars and
>> monks? I am informed that monks live in monasteries and friars in the
>> world but in "communities". What is the difference between a community
>> and a monastery? As a child I attended a church run by clergy who
>> attached OSB to their names but they did not live in a monastery even if
>> "OSB" indicates a benedictine monk.
>>
> With nuns, I think it has to do with the types of vows they take. Nuns
> who are following a strict rule - I think usually the contemplative ones
> - live in monasteries
I think they used to live in monasteries, but they were made to hie to
nunneries because of what they were doing between the sessions of
contemplation.
> and the ones who go around working as nurses or
> teachers take less restrictive vows and live in convents. Maybe a friary
> is a convent for men.
>
> Nowadays, the few nuns left may have other living arrangements - some
> share apartments or an ordinary house, while the very elderly live in
> nursing homes or wings of convents adapted for that purpose - a local
> convent converted part of their property for the very elderly and sick
> nuns who couldn't manage living in the old buildings any more and one in
> Quebec sold their massive old convent building for conversion to a
> seniors' home or nursing home, keeping one section fro their own seniors.
>
--
Les
(BrE)
Cheryl
No, I think what are loosely called 'convents' because they have female
inhabitants are technically 'monasteries' because of he nature of their
vows.
You may be thinking of the medieval double monasteries.
>> and the ones who go around working as nurses or
>> teachers take less restrictive vows and live in convents. Maybe a friary
>> is a convent for men.
>>
>> Nowadays, the few nuns left may have other living arrangements - some
>> share apartments or an ordinary house, while the very elderly live in
>> nursing homes or wings of convents adapted for that purpose - a local
>> convent converted part of their property for the very elderly and sick
>> nuns who couldn't manage living in the old buildings any more and one in
>> Quebec sold their massive old convent building for conversion to a
>> seniors' home or nursing home, keeping one section fro their own seniors.
>>
>
--
Cheryl
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Pontificio (Italian for Pontifical Yearbook)", there are four branches
of religious order:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_religious_order
Examples are from the list at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_religious_order#List_of_Catholic_religious_orders
* Monastic orders: orders founded by monks or nuns who live and work
in a monastery and recite the divine office.
E.g. Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists.
* Mendicant orders: orders founded by friars or nuns who live from
alms, recite the divine office, and have active participation in
apostolic endeavors.
E.g. Franciscans, Capuchins.
* Canons Regular: orders founded by canons and canonesses regular
who recite the divine office and generally are in charge of a
parish.
E.g. Canon Regulars - Augustinian Canons,
* Clerks Regular: orders founded by priests who are also religious
men with vows and have a very active apostolic life.
E.g. Jesuits.
There are many Catholic "congregations" that are not classified as
"religious orders". There is, for instance, the _Congregation of
Christian Brothers_ (aka Irish Christian Brothers).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_%28Catholic%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_of_Christian_Brothers
My knowledge of this matter is limited and superficial. I have the
impression that delving any deeper would involve a lifetime's work to
the exclusion of any other interests.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Leslie Danks
I was thinking of one of the reasons for the fall of the monasteries, for
example:
<quote>
Henry VIII of England, in 1535, appointed commissioners to inspect all
monasteries and nunneries in the land, and so terrible were the cruelties
and corruptions uncovered that a cry went up from the nation that all such
houses without exception should be destroyed. The fall of the monasteries
(1536-9) was attributed to ‘the monstrous lives of the monks, the friars,
and the nuns.’ This suppression of the monasteries undoubtedly did much to
widen the gap between the Roman Church and this English monarch who had
already declared his independence of the pope.
</endquote>
<http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tracts.ukgo.com%2Fcelibacy.doc&rct=j&q=%22women%20in%20monasteries%22%20debauchery&ei=-
flpTs75K8iKswbR7sjbBA&usg=AFQjCNF_x8MrBTTPxCnkmoGxddEDbA746w&cad=rja>
>
>>> and the ones who go around working as nurses or
>>> teachers take less restrictive vows and live in convents. Maybe a friary
>>> is a convent for men.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, the few nuns left may have other living arrangements - some
>>> share apartments or an ordinary house, while the very elderly live in
>>> nursing homes or wings of convents adapted for that purpose - a local
>>> convent converted part of their property for the very elderly and sick
>>> nuns who couldn't manage living in the old buildings any more and one in
>>> Quebec sold their massive old convent building for conversion to a
>>> seniors' home or nursing home, keeping one section fro their own
>>> seniors.
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Les
(BrE)
Cheryl
I'm not sure Henry VIII and his publicists were exactly unbiased sources
of information about goings-on in convents, given their financial
interests in the supression of such places.
I'm sure, human nature being what it is, that some monks and nuns did
and do misbehave, but there's a lot of misinformation in the historical
polemics on the subject. Pre-reformation tale-tellers liked a nice juicy
scandal, or to make rude jokes about monks and nuns, and
post-reformation there were all those stories about nuns being walled up
alive, and, well 'cruelties and corruptions' that provided a reason for
closing all the places down as well as plot devices for early novels and
collections of ghost stories.
Leslie Danks
that the above is not too much of an exaggeration. The article I quoted from
looks quite interesting and I have printed it out to read at my leisure--it
certainly contains a few soundbites for livening things up if conversation
starts to flag during Christmas dinner.
> I'm sure, human nature being what it is, that some monks and nuns did
> and do misbehave, but there's a lot of misinformation in the historical
> polemics on the subject. Pre-reformation tale-tellers liked a nice juicy
> scandal, or to make rude jokes about monks and nuns, and
> post-reformation there were all those stories about nuns being walled up
> alive, and, well 'cruelties and corruptions' that provided a reason for
> closing all the places down as well as plot devices for early novels and
> collections of ghost stories.
Les
(BrE)
Mike Lyle
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
[...]
>There are many Catholic "congregations" that are not classified as
>"religious orders". There is, for instance, the _Congregation of
>Christian Brothers_ (aka Irish Christian Brothers).
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_%28Catholic%29
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_of_Christian_Brothers
>
even taught rugby by means of the cane.
>My knowledge of this matter is limited and superficial. I have the
>impression that delving any deeper would involve a lifetime's work to
>the exclusion of any other interests.
--