"To have a gander at ..."
Skitt
John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
> Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
> gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>
> I suspect its origins are in Cockney rhyming slang, but the Cockney
> people I have spoken to don't know the origin. They use "to have a
> butcher's (hook/look)".
>
> The phrase is in occasional use throughout England, as are many Cockney
> terms.
>
> I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years, and beg
> a resolution from the erudite, witty and well-informed people of this
> NG.
>
> I am not a Cockney.
Gosh, did you ever think of looking in a dictionary?
MWCD10:
Main Entry: 2 gander
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
craning to look at something
Date: circa 1914
: LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
--
Skitt (on Florida's Space Coast) http://i.am/skitt/
... and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
Skitt
> Yes, I did think of looking in a dictionary. In fact, I have looked in
> several over the years, but none of them was called "MWCD10". They all
> had bland names such as "Oxford", "Chambers", etc.
>
> Thanks for the info, though the etymology does look very uncertain to
> me.
Well, that may be, but if you had read the FAQ before posting, you would
have known that MWCD10 refers to Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary,
10th Edition, available on-line at http://www.m-w.com/.
Please, read the FAQ at:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/alt-usage-english-faq/faq
.html
(patch the URL, if necessary)
John Hopkin
gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
I suspect its origins are in Cockney rhyming slang, but the Cockney
people I have spoken to don't know the origin. They use "to have a
butcher's (hook/look)".
The phrase is in occasional use throughout England, as are many Cockney
terms.
I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years, and beg
a resolution from the erudite, witty and well-informed people of this
NG.
I am not a Cockney.
TIA
--
John Hopkin
John Davies
<sk...@i.am> writes>news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
>
>MWCD10:
>Main Entry: 2 gander
>Function: noun
>Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
>craning to look at something
>Date: circa 1914
>: LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
Partridge [1] substantially supports that, and to my surprise says it is
of US origin. He also says it is "now, 1983, obsolete", and reminds us
that the gander is a long-necked bird.
NSOED dates the phrase to the late 19th century.
In British English we also have "swanning around", or "go on a swan",
which now means to go on a fairly useless tour of inspection. (As
Partridge so neatly puts it, "from the manoeuvres of swans queening it
on pond or stream".
[1] Paul BEALE (ed). A Concise dictionary of slang and unconventional
English, from A Dictionary of slang and unconventional English, by Eric
Partridge. Routledge, 1989. 0 415 06352 3.
--
John Davies (jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk)
John Hopkin
<sk...@i.am> writes
>
>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
>> Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>> gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>>
>> I suspect its origins are in Cockney rhyming slang, but the Cockney
>> people I have spoken to don't know the origin. They use "to have a
>> butcher's (hook/look)".
>>
>> The phrase is in occasional use throughout England, as are many Cockney
>> terms.
>>
>> I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years, and beg
>> a resolution from the erudite, witty and well-informed people of this
>> NG.
>>
>> I am not a Cockney.
>
>Gosh, did you ever think of looking in a dictionary?
>
>MWCD10:
>Main Entry: 2 gander
>Function: noun
>Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
>craning to look at something
>Date: circa 1914
>: LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
>Skitt (on Florida's Space Coast) http://i.am/skitt/
>... and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
Yes, I did think of looking in a dictionary. In fact, I have looked in
several over the years, but none of them was called "MWCD10". They all
had bland names such as "Oxford", "Chambers", etc.
Thanks for the info, though the etymology does look very uncertain to
me.
--
John Hopkin
John Hopkin
<jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <7ofr7d$kgn$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Skitt
><sk...@i.am> writes
>>
>>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
>>> Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>>> gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>>>
>>Gosh, did you ever think of looking in a dictionary?
>>
>>MWCD10:
>>Main Entry: 2 gander
>>Function: noun
>>Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
>>craning to look at something
>>Date: circa 1914
>>: LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
>
>of US origin. He also says it is "now, 1983, obsolete", and reminds us
>that the gander is a long-necked bird.
>
>NSOED dates the phrase to the late 19th century.
>
>In British English we also have "swanning around", or "go on a swan",
>which now means to go on a fairly useless tour of inspection. (As
>Partridge so neatly puts it, "from the manoeuvres of swans queening it
>on pond or stream".
>
>[1] Paul BEALE (ed). A Concise dictionary of slang and unconventional
>English, from A Dictionary of slang and unconventional English, by Eric
>Partridge. Routledge, 1989. 0 415 06352 3.
Many thanks. I'm becoming more convinced ... gradually ...
--
John Hopkin
Matti Lamprhey
news:7ofr7d$kgn$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
> > Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
> > gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
> >
> > people I have spoken to don't know the origin. They use "to have a
> > butcher's (hook/look)".
> >
> > The phrase is in occasional use throughout England, as are many Cockney
> > terms.
> >
> > I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years, and beg
> > a resolution from the erudite, witty and well-informed people of this
> > NG.
> >
> > I am not a Cockney.
>
>
> MWCD10:
> Main Entry: 2 gander
> Function: noun
> Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
> craning to look at something
> Date: circa 1914
> : LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
That is effectively what the NSOED93 has too. But it doesn't seem to me a
likely derivation -- it has all the feel of rhyming slang.
Was there some corner of a foreign field known as /Ganderhoek/ perhaps?
Matti
Caldew
snip...
>Yes, I did think of looking in a dictionary. In fact, I have looked in
>several over the years, but none of them was called "MWCD10". They all
>had bland names such as "Oxford", "Chambers", etc.
>
>Thanks for the info, though the etymology does look very uncertain to
>me.
When in doubt, look into a *good* dictionary. OED2 has:
"gander, v. Also gonder, Sc. gainder.
[f. prec.]
1. intr.
† a. (See quot. 1687.) dial.
b. To wander aimlessly, or with a foolish air like that of a gander.
Also, to look or glance (see later quots.) dial. or colloq. (now chiefly
U.S.).
1687 Miege Gt. Fr. Dict. ii. s.v., To go a gandering, whilst his Wife
lies in, chercher à se divertir ailleurs [etc.].
1822 Hogg Perils of Man III. vii. 202 What are ye gaun gaindering about
that gate for, as ye didna ken whilk end o’ ye were uppermost.
1865 H. Kingsley in Macm. Mag. June 131 The deerhounds get between every
body’s legs..and gander about idiotically.
1886 Chesh. Gloss., s.v., Wheer art gonderin to?
1887 T. Darlington Folk-Speech S. Cheshire 206 Gonder, to stretch the
neck like a gander, to stand at gaze. ‘What a’t gonderin’ theer fur?’
1903 Cincinnati Enquirer 9 May 13/1 Gander, to stretch or rubber your
neck.
1935 Amer. Speech X. 17/2 To wander about looking for someone or
something. Modern to gander.
1939 Ibid. XIV. 239/2 To gander, to examine.
1943 Hunt & Pringle Service Slang 33 Gander, a look through the mail, a
glance over another’s shoulder at a letter or paper. To perpetrate this
long-necked nuisance.
2. transf. To ramble in talk. dial.
1858 Hughes Scouring White Horse v. 95 ‘But about the sports, William?’
‘Ees, Sir, I wur gandering sure enough’, said the old man.
1867 H. Kingsley Silcote of S. xlix. (1876) 360 You sit gandering in
that chair.
1886 Chesh. Gloss., Gonder, to ramble in conversation, to become
childish."
Kir M'Djinn A fool and his words are soon parted.
Perchprism
>From: "Matti Lamprhey" ma...@polka.bikini
>Date: Sat, 07 August 1999 05:03 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37abf...@news.netdirect.net.uk>
NODE has: 2 [in SING.] informal a look or glance. [ORIGIN: from criminals'
slang.]
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
N.Mitchum
-----
> Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
> gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
Dictionary says it's probably from the outstretched neck of a
person craning to look at something. Now, as to "craning"....
-----
> I suspect its origins are in Cockney rhyming slang,
>.....
No, simply a comparison with the bird.
-----
> I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years,
>.....
Seven years! And in all that time you never consulted a
dictionary?
----NM
Peter Moylan
>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
If you were familiar with the behaviour of geese, you wouldn't have
to ask.
Now that most people live in cities, we risk losing an understanding
of the meanings of some of the traditional metaphors.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
Murray Arnow
>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>
>If you were familiar with the behaviour of geese, you wouldn't have
>to ask.
>
>Now that most people live in cities, we risk losing an understanding
>of the meanings of some of the traditional metaphors.
>
In the US city dwellers are getting reintroduced to wildlife. In my community,
just north of Chicago, I have seen deer, ducks, geese, raccoons, possums,
skunks, red foxes, grey foxes, coyotes, and lots more. As for the Canada
geese in these parts, them friggin birds have taken up year-round residence
and behave like tax-paying property owners.
Golgo13
> In article <7ofr7d$kgn$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, Skitt
> <sk...@i.am> writes
> >
> >John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:dSvPRQAc...@hopkin.demon.co.uk...
> >> Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
> >> gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
> >>
> >> I suspect its origins are in Cockney rhyming slang, but the Cockney
> >> people I have spoken to don't know the origin. They use "to have a
> >> butcher's (hook/look)".
> >>
> >> The phrase is in occasional use throughout England, as are many Cockney
> >> terms.
> >>
> >> I have been chasing the answer to this question for seven years, and beg
> >> a resolution from the erudite, witty and well-informed people of this
> >> NG.
> >>
> >> I am not a Cockney.
> >
> >Gosh, did you ever think of looking in a dictionary?
> >
> >MWCD10:
> >Main Entry: 2 gander
> >Function: noun
> >Etymology: probably from 1 gander; from the outstretched neck of a person
> >craning to look at something
> >Date: circa 1914
> >: LOOK, GLANCE <take a gander>
> >--
> >Skitt (on Florida's Space Coast) http://i.am/skitt/
> >... and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped.
>
> Yes, I did think of looking in a dictionary. In fact, I have looked in
> several over the years, but none of them was called "MWCD10". They all
> had bland names such as "Oxford", "Chambers", etc.
>
> Thanks for the info, though the etymology does look very uncertain to
> me.
Merriam-Webster's corpus is well known to be one of the largest at some
50,000,000 individual entries with citations. I'd expect their entry
here to be thoroughly supported. If you need more, though, how about the
_Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology_ [1995, ISBN: 0-06-270084-7]:
gander:
[. . .] The slang meaning (by craning the neck as a gander does)
of a long look is first recorded in 1914, from the verb (1903).
As they're both in agreement here, "very uncertain" seems overly
skeptical, doesn't it?
DLS
--
D. Sosnoski
gol...@entercomp.com
"When you say the world is composed of nothing but value,
what are you talking about?" - RMP
Geoff Butler
>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>
>to ask.
I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is
there any difference in behaviour?
-ler
Murray Arnow
What a setup. Whose going to be first?
M.J.Powell
<ar...@iname.com> writes
'To goose' has a totaly different meaning..
--
Mike The life that I have
Is all that I have
And the life that I have
Is yours.
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
wrote:
>In article <D1WQ9OA5...@gbutler.demon.co.uk>, Geoff Butler <ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Peter Moylan <pe...@pjm2.newcastle.edu.au> wrote
>>>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>>>>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>>>
>>>If you were familiar with the behaviour of geese, you wouldn't have
>>>to ask.
>>
>>I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is
>>there any difference in behaviour?
>>
>
>What a setup. Whose going to be first?
Er....
Murray Arnow
> Er....
Gulp! These early morning postings are going to the death of me.
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented "M.J.Powell" <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk>
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
|><ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|>>Peter Moylan <pe...@pjm2.newcastle.edu.au> wrote
|>>>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|>>>>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
|>>>>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
|>>>
|>>>If you were familiar with the behaviour of geese, you wouldn't have
|>>>to ask.
|>>
|>>I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is
|>>there any difference in behaviour?
|>>
|>
|>What a setup. Whose going to be first?
|
For more information, consult _Antlers in the Treetops_ by
Who Goosed Damoose.
--
Lars Eighner 700 Hearn #101 Austin TX 78703 eig...@io.com
(512) 474-1920 (FAX answers 6th ring) http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner/
Please visit my web bookstore: http://www.io.com/%7Eeighner/bookstore/
* A Metaphor is like a Simile.
Geoff Butler
>In article <D1WQ9OA5...@gbutler.demon.co.uk>, Geoff Butler
><ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Peter Moylan <pe...@pjm2.newcastle.edu.au> wrote
>>>John Hopkin <jo...@hopkin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>Could anyone help me to trace the origin of the phrase "To have a
>>>>gander" (meaning "to have a look")?
>>>
>>>If you were familiar with the behaviour of geese, you wouldn't have
>>>to ask.
>>
>>I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is
>>there any difference in behaviour?
>>
>
>What a setup. Whose going to be first?
I thought who was on second.
-ler
Robert Lieblich
>
> Murray Arnow <ar...@iname.com> wrote
<snip>
> >What a setup. Whose going to be first?
>
> I thought who was on second.
Definitely not. Who's on first, What's on second.
Bob Lieblich
Simon Hosie
> I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is there
> any difference in behaviour?
M.J.Powell:
> 'To goose' has a totaly different meaning..
This implies a significant difference in behaviour. Do ganders not goose?
--
# Please try to quote no more than you need to show the context of your post.
# If you also quote my .Sig then I hate you and I hope you get hiccups.
#
# email: Gumboot, at an ISP named Clear.Net, in New Zealand.
Orne Batmagoo
> Geoff Butler: [Re: to goose and to gander]
>> I wonder, though, why "gander" rather than "To have a goose at". Is there
>> any difference in behaviour?
>
> M.J.Powell:
>> 'To goose' has a totaly different meaning..
>
> This implies a significant difference in behaviour. Do ganders not goose?
A craft brewery in Chicago, "The Goose Island Beer Co." boasts of their
telephone number, on delivery trucks and advertising:
"Call 1-800-GOOSE ME".
--
Orne Batmagoo