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The curious case of 'al fresco'
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occam
Mar 20, 2021, 3:47:36 AM3/20/21
to
Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
serve customers 'al fresco'.
In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
My source:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
serve customers 'al fresco'.
In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
My source:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
Eric Walker
Mar 20, 2021, 4:31:42 AM3/20/21
to
other tongues are in everyday use, and often have meanings in English
that differ a bit or a lot from their meanings in their origianl home.
The American Heritage Dictionary (5th ed.) says:
adv.
In the fresh air; outdoors: dining alfresco.
adj.
Taking place outdoors; outdoor: an alfresco conference.
[Italian al fresco, in the fresh (air) : al, in the (a, to, in from Latin
ad; see AD- + il, the, from Latin ille; see al-1 in the Appendix of Indo-
European roots) + fresco, fresh.]
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 20, 2021, 7:54:17 AM3/20/21
to
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:31:38 -0000 (UTC), Eric Walker
<em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:47:32 +0100, occam wrote:
>
>> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
>> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
>> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
>> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>>
>> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
>> necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
>> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
>>
>> My source:
>> https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-
>a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
>
>This is the English-speaking world. Many words and phrases derived from
>other tongues are in everyday use, and often have meanings in English
>that differ a bit or a lot from their meanings in their origianl home.
>
Agreed. !!Beware the etymological fallacy!!
<em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:47:32 +0100, occam wrote:
>
>> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
>> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
>> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
>> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>>
>> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
>> necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
>> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
>>
>> My source:
>> https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-
>a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
>
>This is the English-speaking world. Many words and phrases derived from
>other tongues are in everyday use, and often have meanings in English
>that differ a bit or a lot from their meanings in their origianl home.
>
In the same territory is "picnic". It was originally a formal indoor
meal.
OED:
1.a.
Originally: †a fashionable social event at which each guest
contributed a share of the food (obsolete).
Now: an informal meal eaten out of doors, esp. as part of an
excursion to the countryside, coast, etc.
Etymology: < French pique-nique ... denoting a meal at which each
person pays for his share or at which each person contributes a
share of the food; subsequently also denoting a meal eaten out of
doors, perhaps after English), ...
>The American Heritage Dictionary (5th ed.) says:
>
>adv.
>In the fresh air; outdoors: dining alfresco.
>adj.
>Taking place outdoors; outdoor: an alfresco conference.
>
>[Italian al fresco, in the fresh (air) : al, in the (a, to, in from Latin
>ad; see AD- + il, the, from Latin ille; see al-1 in the Appendix of Indo-
>European roots) + fresco, fresh.]
--
(in alt.usage.english)
Ken Blake
Mar 20, 2021, 11:09:02 AM3/20/21
to
On 3/20/2021 12:47 AM, occam wrote:
> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>
> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
> necessarily outside.
Yes, that's what it literally means. However, in my experience, it
> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>
> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
> necessarily outside.
usually means the same thing in Italy as it does in the US (and
apparently also in the UK)--dining outdoors.
> It can even mean 'in prison'.
> The correct term for
> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
talk about "Dining fuori di" it would mean "dining outside of."
You would have to say "dining outside of *someplace*. You could perhaps
say something like "fuori della casa" ("outside of the house.")
Some Italians may say "fuori di someplace," but I don't remember ever
hearing it. Perhaps the term I've heard most often is just "fuori"
("outside"),
When entering a restaurant with both indoor and outdoor seating, a
customer is often asked "interno o fuori?" ("indoors or outdoors?").
--
Ken
Paul Carmichael
Mar 20, 2021, 11:45:55 AM3/20/21
to
El 20/3/21 a las 8:47, occam escribió:
It turns out that al fresco means al sereno which in turn means outside at night.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>
> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
> necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
I've just looked it up in Spanish, as I've used the expression here.
> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>
> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
> necessarily outside. It can even mean 'in prison'. The correct term for
> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
It turns out that al fresco means al sereno which in turn means outside at night.
--
Paul.
https://paulc.es/elpatio
Sam Plusnet
Mar 20, 2021, 4:31:43 PM3/20/21
to
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter T. Daniels
Mar 20, 2021, 4:36:17 PM3/20/21
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Mar 20, 2021, 7:09:16 PM3/20/21
to
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 08:08:56 -0700, Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com>
wrote:
>On 3/20/2021 12:47 AM, occam wrote:
>> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
>> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
>> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
>> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>>
>> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
>> necessarily outside.
>
>
>Yes, that's what it literally means. However, in my experience, it
>usually means the same thing in Italy as it does in the US (and
>apparently also in the UK)--dining outdoors.
>
>
>> It can even mean 'in prison'.
>
>
>Perhaps, but I've never seen or heard it to mean that.
>
It means that in Italian, not English.
As this says:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
Italians use the expression ‘al fresco’ to mean ‘in the chill’ or
‘in the cool’.
When tourists are in a restaurant and want to eat outside, they
usually say they want to eat ‘al fresco’. This is a funny mistake.
In Italian, the expression has a completely different meaning. ‘Al
fresco’ literally means ‘in prison’! The reason why it means that is
probably because in the past, prisons were very cold places with
thick walls (‘fresco’ means ‘cold’).
Cf. AmE "cooler" meaning a prison/jail.
>
>
>> The correct term for
>> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
>
>
>
>No, that's not possible. "Di" is a preposition; it means "of. You can't
>talk about "Dining fuori di" it would mean "dining outside of."
>
>You would have to say "dining outside of *someplace*. You could perhaps
>say something like "fuori della casa" ("outside of the house.")
>
>Some Italians may say "fuori di someplace," but I don't remember ever
>hearing it. Perhaps the term I've heard most often is just "fuori"
>("outside"),
>
>
>When entering a restaurant with both indoor and outdoor seating, a
>customer is often asked "interno o fuori?" ("indoors or outdoors?").
--
wrote:
>On 3/20/2021 12:47 AM, occam wrote:
>> Al fresco is an Italian term, much used in English to mean outside, as
>> in "dining al fresco". Today's UK news is, once again, misusing the term
>> in the context of relaxing lockdown restrictions by allowing pubs to
>> serve customers 'al fresco'.
>>
>> In Italian, however, the term apparently means 'somewhere cool' and not
>> necessarily outside.
>
>
>Yes, that's what it literally means. However, in my experience, it
>usually means the same thing in Italy as it does in the US (and
>apparently also in the UK)--dining outdoors.
>
>
>> It can even mean 'in prison'.
>
>
>Perhaps, but I've never seen or heard it to mean that.
>
As this says:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/al-fresco-in-italy-has-a-very-different-meaning-than-everywhere-else/
Italians use the expression ‘al fresco’ to mean ‘in the chill’ or
‘in the cool’.
When tourists are in a restaurant and want to eat outside, they
usually say they want to eat ‘al fresco’. This is a funny mistake.
In Italian, the expression has a completely different meaning. ‘Al
fresco’ literally means ‘in prison’! The reason why it means that is
probably because in the past, prisons were very cold places with
thick walls (‘fresco’ means ‘cold’).
Cf. AmE "cooler" meaning a prison/jail.
>
>
>> The correct term for
>> outside dining is apparently "fuori di".
>
>
>
>No, that's not possible. "Di" is a preposition; it means "of. You can't
>talk about "Dining fuori di" it would mean "dining outside of."
>
>You would have to say "dining outside of *someplace*. You could perhaps
>say something like "fuori della casa" ("outside of the house.")
>
>Some Italians may say "fuori di someplace," but I don't remember ever
>hearing it. Perhaps the term I've heard most often is just "fuori"
>("outside"),
>
>
>When entering a restaurant with both indoor and outdoor seating, a
>customer is often asked "interno o fuori?" ("indoors or outdoors?").
--
Sam Plusnet
Mar 20, 2021, 8:53:06 PM3/20/21
to
Peter Moylan
Mar 21, 2021, 2:32:59 AM3/21/21
to
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