Spotted Dick pudding renamed to Spotted Richard

Dingbat

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Dec 11, 2016, 8:09:40 AM12/11/16

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My interlocutor asks, "Has a vulgar meaning only recently been introduced? It didn't bother them to such an extent in the past."

The council spokesman said: "The correct title for this dish is 'Spotted Dick.'
However because of several immature comments from a few customers, catering
staff renamed the dish 'Spotted Richard' or 'Sultana Sponge'. This was not a
policy decision, canteen staff simply acted as they thought best
to put an end to unwelcome and childish comments, albeit from a very small
number of customers."
But Flintshire Councillor Klaus Armstrong-Braun criticised the ban on the
original pudding name. He said he had made an official complaint about the
name change which he called "ludicrous" and said had cost money because a new
label was needed for the food.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8243648.stm

Who's Afraid of Spotted Dick?
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/fooddrink/a/spotted_dick.htm
Tim Reid of The Times of London reports that sales of the spongy steamed
pudding known in Britain for the past century as "spotted dick" have plummeted
in recent years. Retailers wanted to know why, so the Tesco supermarket chain
conducted a survey and identified the problem lickety-split. Shoppers are
embarrassed to be seen purchasing the product, let alone ask for it by name.
Tesco's proposed solution? Rename it "spotted
The very idea of rechristening the dish so perturbs members of the
arch-traditionalist Pudding Club (their slogan: "Mad About Puddings") that
they have already denounced it as an outrage. "Spotted dick has always been
spotted dick and there is no reason to change that," snipped chief pudding
taster Simon Coombe in The Times. But political correctness may well win the
day.

GordonD

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Dec 11, 2016, 9:19:52 AM12/11/16

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On 11/12/2016 13:09, Dingbat wrote:
> My interlocutor asks, "Has a vulgar meaning only recently been
> introduced? It didn't bother them to such an extent in the past."

For values of 'recently' going back to 2009, when the story was published.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Dec 11, 2016, 11:44:12 AM12/11/16

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On 2016-12-11 14:19:47 +0000, GordonD said:

> On 11/12/2016 13:09, Dingbat wrote:
>> My interlocutor asks, "Has a vulgar meaning only recently been
>> introduced? It didn't bother them to such an extent in the past."
>
> For values of 'recently' going back to 2009, when the story was published.

How many times has this silliness come up in AUE in the past few years?
15, or not as few as that?

--
athel

Robert Bannister

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Dec 11, 2016, 7:49:13 PM12/11/16

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I'm a bit worried about the use of "sponge" and "spongy". In my mind,
Spotted Dick is a suet pudding.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

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Dec 12, 2016, 7:09:52 AM12/12/16

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It is. However, it can have the elasticity of a sponge (zoological
type).

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Cheryl

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Dec 12, 2016, 7:16:13 AM12/12/16

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Which is exactly what I think of when I read "sponge", even though I
know, when I stop to think, that "sponge" is a British culinary term. I
think in Canada, we'd always say "sponge cake" for that usage, reserving
"sponge" for the aquatic animal or plant or whatever it is.

Spotted dick is not a common food here, even though locally we have some
foods with a clear British ancestry, like Christmas pudding with hard
sauce.

--
Cheryl

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 12, 2016, 8:01:49 AM12/12/16

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On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 7:16:13 AM UTC-5, Cheryl wrote:

> Which is exactly what I think of when I read "sponge", even though I
> know, when I stop to think, that "sponge" is a British culinary term. I
> think in Canada, we'd always say "sponge cake" for that usage, reserving
> "sponge" for the aquatic animal or plant or whatever it is.

BrE "sponge" is not AmE "sponge cake," but a much more general term.
That Mary Berry person used it at least twice in the "Cake" episode
of *The Great American Baking Show*.

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

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Dec 12, 2016, 8:16:53 AM12/12/16

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Spotted dick was referred to on TV here a day or two ago in discussions
about the TV singing competition, the X Factor, which is now finished.
The person who finished in second place was Saaro Aalto. She is from
Finland and moved to the UK a few months ago. She speaks good English
(and a few other languages) but has had to adjust to British culture and
to colloquial English.

In an interview the interviewer mentioned that she, Saara, had had
"Spotted Dick" a few times since arriving in England. I'm sure that
Saara had learned the double meaning but both she and the interviewer
kept straight faces.

On another English usage point, Saara said that she had adjusted to the
BrE greeting "How are you?". That is just a greeting, not a request for
detailed information as it would be in Finland.

Janet

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Dec 12, 2016, 8:49:33 AM12/12/16

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In article <9e34779d-3a03-47ed...@googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net says...

She meant a basic combination of eggs, flour, butter and milk which
can either be baked as a cake (with or without other ingredients) or a
topping (Eve's pudding) or to make a steamed sponge pudding.

Janet

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 12, 2016, 9:17:57 AM12/12/16

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Oh, did you see the episode?

She did _not_ refer to what you described, which we would call "cake
batter" (except that it could not be a "topping"), but to a layer of
cake itself. She almost always pokes at cake before tasting, looking
for "springiness," but if she poked at a sponge cake, she'd probably
make a hole in it.

CDB

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Dec 12, 2016, 9:45:48 AM12/12/16

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I have fond memories of the "lemon sponge" of my childhood. It was
baked in a shallow casserole dish, and was a hybrid of cake and lemon
pudding (NAmE meaning).

Janet

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Dec 12, 2016, 10:02:31 AM12/12/16

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In article <2d26af2d-da46-410d...@googlegroups.com>,

Obviously you've never baked OR poked a sponge cake.

Janet.

Katy Jennison

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Dec 12, 2016, 10:34:34 AM12/12/16

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Christmas pudding is (or should be) also a suet pudding, although
nothing like as light, elastic or spongy as (eg) spotted dick.

--
Katy Jennison

Cheryl

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Dec 12, 2016, 10:43:08 AM12/12/16

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I've never made it, but I think that's the version my mother made - a
suet pudding with raisins and other dried fruit in it. It was dark -
probably from molasses, which was a staple of local baking. Brandy was
poured over it and set on fire as it was brought to the table, and hard
sauce, which was basically a paste of butter, icing sugar and rum, was
served with it.

I don't think many people serve this after dinner any more. Certainly,
the Christmas dinners I've eaten in recent years are usually followed by
ice cream cake, assorted cookies and pieces of fruit cake rather than a
Christmas pudding.

--
Cheryl

Janet

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Dec 12, 2016, 11:38:22 AM12/12/16

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In article <o2md6p$1qfa$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, belle...@gmail.com says...

I still make that, it's a favourite.

Janet.

Jerry Friedman

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Dec 12, 2016, 11:49:03 AM12/12/16

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Possibly /The Joy of Cooking/'s "sponge custard".

--
Jerry Friedman

Jerry Friedman

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Dec 12, 2016, 11:57:31 AM12/12/16

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Fifty or so years later, I'm finally wondering why sponge cakes (in
the American sense) are traditional at Passover seders. Is it
because seders are meat meals, so you couldn't make a cake that
contained butter, and people kept doing the same thing after
margarine became available? Or because matzah meal works better in
sponge cakes than in butter cakes? Or what?

--
Jerry Friedman prefers flourless chocolate almond torte.

Tony Cooper

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Dec 12, 2016, 12:02:47 PM12/12/16

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Whether or not "Spotted Dick" is an acceptable name is irrelevant
considering a much more serious problem for UK diners has arisen.
According to a _theguardian_ article, fish and chips may have to give
way to squid and chips.

http://tinyurl.com/znjjlkf or

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/12/squid-set-to-top-chippy-menu-as-seawater-warms-up-fish-and-chips
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Janet

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Dec 12, 2016, 12:42:59 PM12/12/16

to

In article <eb7us8...@mid.individual.net>, cper...@med.mun.ca
says...

> >
> > Christmas pudding is (or should be) also a suet pudding, although
> > nothing like as light, elastic or spongy as (eg) spotted dick.
> >
> I've never made it, but I think that's the version my mother made - a
> suet pudding with raisins and other dried fruit in it. It was dark -
> probably from molasses, which was a staple of local baking. Brandy was
> poured over it and set on fire as it was brought to the table, and hard
> sauce, which was basically a paste of butter, icing sugar and rum, was
> served with it.
>
> I don't think many people serve this after dinner any more. Certainly,
> the Christmas dinners I've eaten in recent years are usually followed by
> ice cream cake, assorted cookies and pieces of fruit cake rather than a
> Christmas pudding.
>

It's still traditional in UK. Our pudding is made but I haven't done
the brandy butter yet.

Janet

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 12, 2016, 12:44:36 PM12/12/16

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Obviously, you have no idea what "sponge cake" means in AmE.

I used to bake pound cakes frequently.

I'm still trying to figure out what in your description could possibly
turn out to be a "topping."

"Pound cake" is made from one pound each of flour, butter, sugar, eggs,
and milk (you can use less if you want less cake) and a touch of mace.
You can experiment by leaving out one or another ingredient and varying
the proportions; you omitted the sugar, so your recipe (with a bit of
baking powder) might make pancakes. But since it includes flour (and eggs,
but worrying about raw eggs is recent), it has to be cooked in some way,
which probably leaves out any "topping" consistency.

Janet

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Dec 12, 2016, 12:46:59 PM12/12/16

to

In article <arlt4c55kms1g4d4k...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

>
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 16:38:18 -0000, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <o2md6p$1qfa$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, belle...@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >> On 12/12/2016 8:01 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > Cheryl wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Which is exactly what I think of when I read "sponge", even though
> >> >> I know, when I stop to think, that "sponge" is a British culinary
> >> >> term. I think in Canada, we'd always say "sponge cake" for that
> >> >> usage, reserving "sponge" for the aquatic animal or plant or
> >> >> whatever it is.
> >>
> >> > BrE "sponge" is not AmE "sponge cake," but a much more general term.
> >> > That Mary Berry person used it at least twice in the "Cake" episode
> >> > of *The Great American Baking Show*.
> >>
> >> I have fond memories of the "lemon sponge" of my childhood. It was
> >> baked in a shallow casserole dish, and was a hybrid of cake and lemon
> >> pudding (NAmE meaning).
> >
> > I still make that, it's a favourite.
> >
>
> Whether or not "Spotted Dick" is an acceptable name is irrelevant
> considering a much more serious problem for UK diners has arisen.
> According to a _theguardian_ article, fish and chips may have to give
> way to squid and chips.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/znjjlkf or

The real news is in the last paragraph.

Janet.

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 12, 2016, 12:48:26 PM12/12/16

to

It's simpler than that -- you can't have butter at a meat meal, and you
can't use yeast or soda or anything else that would raise ("leaven") it
at all. Lard + wheat flour is, essentially, gravy (a roux).

bebe...@aol.com

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Dec 12, 2016, 1:29:42 PM12/12/16

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Medically speaking, the spongy part of a spotted dick could be called "maculosa corpora cavernosa".

>
> --
> Katy Jennison

Richard Tobin

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Dec 12, 2016, 1:50:03 PM12/12/16

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In article <o2md6p$1qfa$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have fond memories of the "lemon sponge" of my childhood. It was
>baked in a shallow casserole dish, and was a hybrid of cake and lemon
>pudding (NAmE meaning).

Sounds like Lemon Delicious Pudding.

-- Richard

Whiskers

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Dec 12, 2016, 3:39:23 PM12/12/16

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In my BrE, 'topping' is just something that goes on top of something
else. Not necessarily food. But in the case of food, a 'sponge
topping' would be (British) sponge cake, baked in situ atop whatever it
was topping (tinned fruit is good, removed from the tin and placed in an
oven-proof dish or bowl first of course). A common and favourite
pudding or sweet course at meals in my childhood (and more refined than
spotted dick). Some of the liquid from the tinned fruit combines with
some of the sponge cake before and during cooking, to delightful effect
in my opinion.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 12, 2016, 5:10:27 PM12/12/16

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Good grief. Over Here, a topping is something you pour or sprinkle over
something -- the sauce on an ice cream sundae, the crispy onion-shreds
you garnish a steak with, etc. The "hard sauce" someone (Cheryl?) mentioned
would be a topping for, say, a bread pudding or a slice of cake.

Salad dressing wouldn't be a topping because it's hardly a salad if it
doesn't have some sort of dressing on it.

spuorg...@gowanhill.com

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Dec 12, 2016, 5:26:08 PM12/12/16

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On Monday, 12 December 2016 20:39:23 UTC, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
> In my BrE, 'topping' is just something that goes on top of something
> else. Not necessarily food. But in the case of food, a 'sponge
> topping' would be (British) sponge cake, baked in situ atop whatever it
> was topping (tinned fruit is good, removed from the tin and placed in an
> oven-proof dish or bowl first of course).

Like a crumble topping, or a meringue topping, as appropriate.

Owain

Quinn C

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Dec 12, 2016, 5:28:22 PM12/12/16

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* Peter T. Daniels:

If pound cake is a type of sponge cake, then I don't understand
what sponge cake is in AmE, either. But I guess you just didn't
express yourself clearly.

> I'm still trying to figure out what in your description could possibly
> turn out to be a "topping."
>
> "Pound cake" is made from one pound each of flour, butter, sugar, eggs,
> and milk (you can use less if you want less cake) and a touch of mace.

As I learned the word, one pound each of flour, butter, sugar and
eggs, no milk - and Wikipedia concurs. I would add some milk as
needed, but would expect adding a pound of it to make the batter
lose consistency.

Mace seems like a particular (family or subculture) tradition.
Germans used to add saffron, but not in my lifetime. Vanilla is
the ubiquitous additive these days, and maybe still a pinch of
salt.

> You can experiment by leaving out one or another ingredient and varying
> the proportions

German basic home-baked cakes in my lifetime usually were less
rich, more like 2:1:1:2 in the order of ingredients above. Or you
replace some of the eggs by milk (rather than adding some on top).

--
If you kill one person, you go to jail; if you kill 20, you go
to an institution for the insane; if you kill 20,000, you get
political asylum. -- Reed Brody, special counsel
for prosecutions at Human Rights Watch

Katy Jennison

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Dec 12, 2016, 6:11:48 PM12/12/16

to

On 12/12/2016 17:42, Janet wrote:
> In article <eb7us8...@mid.individual.net>, cper...@med.mun.ca
> says...
>>>
>>> Christmas pudding is (or should be) also a suet pudding, although
>>> nothing like as light, elastic or spongy as (eg) spotted dick.
>>>
>> I've never made it, but I think that's the version my mother made - a
>> suet pudding with raisins and other dried fruit in it. It was dark -
>> probably from molasses, which was a staple of local baking. Brandy was
>> poured over it and set on fire as it was brought to the table, and hard
>> sauce, which was basically a paste of butter, icing sugar and rum, was
>> served with it.

That's exactly right.

>> I don't think many people serve this after dinner any more. Certainly,
>> the Christmas dinners I've eaten in recent years are usually followed by
>> ice cream cake, assorted cookies and pieces of fruit cake rather than a
>> Christmas pudding.
>>
> It's still traditional in UK. Our pudding is made but I haven't done
> the brandy butter yet.

There are some temptingly good commercial puddings these days.

I think of making the brandy butter as a Christmas Eve thing, to be done
while listening to the Nine Lessons and Carols from King's College,
Cambridge, on radio 3.

--
Katy Jennison