As many as 100 people
Marius Hancu
How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
as" and describe its meaning?
1. The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
but even) as high as 100." [the most natural
2. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
but even) even 100."
3. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
but even) equal to 100."
4. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
but even) the same as 100."
The dictionary shows:
----
- as many : the same in number <saw three plays in as many days>
M-W U
----
stressing _strict_ equality, but I don't think that's the meaning in
this context.
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Don Phillipson
news:73be5c01-12fc-490a...@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> "As many as 100 people attended the meeting."
>
> How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
> as" and describe its meaning? . . .
>
> The dictionary shows:
> ----
> - as many : the same in number <saw three plays in as many days>
>
> M-W U
> ----
> stressing _strict_ equality, but I don't think that's the meaning in
> this context.
Your intuition is correct. English "as many as" is a deliberately
imprecise expression of number, viz. avoids expressing
strict equality rather than "stressing strict equality."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Also, "as many as" carries the suggestion of "many" as opposed to "few".
"As many as 100 people attended the meeting" suggests that there were
more people at the meeting than normal or than might have been expected:
"the number of people at the meeting might have been as high as 100".
"As few as 10 people attended the meeting" would suggest that the
meeting was poorly attended: "the number of people at the meeting might
have been as low as 10".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Lawler
wrote:
> On Tue, 4 May 2010 07:56:15 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Marius Hancu" <marius.ha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Yes. Exactly.
"There might have been as many as 100"
is the implied clause, and the quantifier
is positive, like "a few people", rather than
negative, like "few people".
This is the "as many as" construction.
(Note, there is a second "as")
It's pretty common, because it refers to
a common problem, estimating large
numbers.
The other construction from the dictionary
"I saw three plays in as many days"
is the "as many" construction
(Note, no second "as"; different construction)
which simply repeats the quantifier "three"
in the preceding clause. I.e, what it really
means is "I saw 3 plays in 3 days".
It's in fact simpler, and sounds better, to
simply repeat "three".
The "as many" construction is showy,
but the situation it's for (1-to-1 mapping
of two countable sets) is too rare to make
it a common phrase. Plus, it requires more
processing effort of its listener, for no obvious
benefit. This is generally not best practice.
The point here is that English grammar is
NOT not not not about words and what they
mean. That's what they tell you in grade
school, but that's just to shut you up.
In fact, English grammar is all about
Constructions. Like these two. There are
hundreds of thousands of such constructions,
all with peculiarities. Just as there are in
Chinese or any other analytic language.
Looking up words in a dictionary begets Chinglish:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2295
You gotta look up Constructions.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler
"Overrated, anyway, those complete sentences."
-- Chris Waigl
Don Phillipson
news:s840u5h0c7hg3p57q...@4ax.com...
> Also, "as many as" carries the suggestion of "many" as opposed to "few".
>
> "As many as 100 people attended the meeting" suggests that there were
> more people at the meeting than normal or than might have been expected:
> "the number of people at the meeting might have been as high as 100".
>
> "As few as 10 people attended the meeting" would suggest that the
> meeting was poorly attended: "the number of people at the meeting might
> have been as low as 10".
We can do better than this . . . We can say with equal veracity
"As many as 100 people attended the meeting" and
"As few as 100 people attended the meeting"
but our choice suggests a perceptible difference, at least in the speaker.
mm
<marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"As many as 100 people attended the meeting."
>
>How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
>as" and describe its meaning?
I have no dictionary at the moment, but are these paraphrases,
periphrases, or neither?
>
>1. The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
>but even) as high as 100." [the most natural
>
>2. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
>but even) even 100."
>
>3. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
>but even) equal to 100."
>
>4. "The number of people attending the meeting was (probably) (lower
>but even) the same as 100."
>
>The dictionary shows:
>
>----
>- as many : the same in number <saw three plays in as many days>
>
>M-W U
>----
>stressing _strict_ equality, but I don't think that's the meaning in
>this context.
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
Mark Brader
> "As many as 100 people attended the meeting."
There were about 100, and that was more than you might have expected.
> How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
> as" and describe its meaning?
I cannot interpret "(probably) (lower but even)".
--
Mark Brader | "I couldn't imagine what Americans did at night
Toronto | when they weren't writing novels."
m...@vex.net | --Joseph Heller
Marius Hancu
> > "As many as 100 people attended the meeting."
>
> There were about 100, and that was more than you might have expected.
>
> > How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
> > as" and describe its meaning?
>
> I cannot interpret "(probably) (lower but even)".
Thank you all.
Marius Hancu
Marius Hancu
> On May 4, 5:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 May 2010 07:56:15 -0400, "Don Phillipson" wrote:
> > >> "As many as 100 people attended the meeting."
>
> > >> How do you feel about these paraphrases, trying to replace "as many
> > >> as" and describe its meaning? . . .
>
> > >> The dictionary shows:
> > >> ----
> > >> - as many : the same in number <saw three plays in as many days>
>
> > >> M-W U
> > >> ----
> > >> stressing _strict_ equality, but I don't think that's the meaning in
> > >> this context.
>
> > >Your intuition is correct. English "as many as" is a deliberately
> > >imprecise expression of number, viz. avoids expressing
> > >strict equality rather than "stressing strict equality."
>
> > Also, "as many as" carries the suggestion of "many" as opposed to "few".
>
> > "As many as 100 people attended the meeting" suggests that there were
> > more people at the meeting than normal or than might have been expected:
> > "the number of people at the meeting might have been as high as 100".
>
> > "As few as 10 people attended the meeting" would suggest that the
> > meeting was poorly attended: "the number of people at the meeting might
> > have been as low as 10".
> Yes. Exactly.
Thank you, Professor Lawler.
Now, how would you qualify "as many as 100" as a part of speech? Is it
a adjectival phrase qualifying "people?"
Marius Hancu
John Lawler
Well, it's not a part of speech, those are only for individual words.
It *is* a constituent, but I wouldn't call it an adjectival phrase.
It's a quantifier phrase, which has to precede modifying adjectives
in English; quantifier phrases are part of the determiner phrase that
starts every Noun Phrase in English (and often contains an article).
(Parenthetically, there is a recent tendency (which I deplore)
in some modern linguistic theories to "Determiner Phrase"
instead of "Noun Phrase" on the grounds that only noun
phrases can have determiners. True but pointless, I'm afraid.)
Mostly quantifier phrases are short: "the", "an", "seven", "no".
But like anything living, they can grow:
an | old man in a raincoat
a few | old men in overcoats
another | old man in a raincoat
a few more | old men in overcoats
as few as ten | old men in overcoats
more than ten | old men in overcoats
fewer than ten | old men in overcoats
as many as ten | old men in overcoats
more than a few | old men in overcoats
...
Knowing what the name of something is
doesn't always tell you what you'd like to
know.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler
"The great thing about human language is that it
prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
-- Lewis Thomas