New Name For Iceland

[MC]

"10:59AM EST November 7. 2012 - REYKJAVIK, Iceland -- What to do after a
financial collapse, a grass-roots revolt against the government and a
volcanic cloud that disrupted cross-Atlantic air travel for weeks?

Change your name.

Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.

Some entries include Niceland, Rockland, Catch-A-Cloud-Land. Given the
country's recent calamities natural and unnatural, some say a better
idea is "Restartland."

"Foreigners that come here say that there is nothing consistent with the
name Iceland," said Sigridur Bjorg, 43, an information desk worker from
Reykjavik. "But isn't it a bit far-fetched to change the name of the
country?"

SOURCE:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/06/iceland-discusses-new
-name/1687333/

--

"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones

[Guy Barry]

"MC" wrote in message
news:copespaz-07D1CE...@news.eternal-september.org...

> Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
> the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.

Here in the UK "Iceland" is the name of a well-known chain of frozen food
retailers. Maybe they're trying to throw off that association.

http://www.iceland.co.uk/

--
Guy Barry

[Mike Barnes]

MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net>:

>Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
>the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.
>
>Some entries include Niceland, Rockland, Catch-A-Cloud-Land. Given the
>country's recent calamities natural and unnatural, some say a better
>idea is "Restartland."

Ashland.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[jgharston]

> MC <copes...@mapca.inter.net>:

> >Iceland is holding a contest for a new name

...

Penultima Thule.

JGH

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Iceland, the supermarket chain, was until recently 77% by owned the
Icelandic banks Landsbanki and Glitnir.

The origin of the company was purely English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_%28supermarket%29

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Christian Weisgerber]

Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Some entries include Niceland, Rockland, Catch-A-Cloud-Land. Given the
> >country's recent calamities natural and unnatural, some say a better
> >idea is "Restartland."
>
> Ashland.

That-landscape-at-the-beginning-of-Prometheus.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[R H Draney]

Mike Barnes filted:

On the theory that the new name should refer to something the country is already
associated with around the world, I offer the following suggestions:

Sagaland
Volcanoland
Woollydwarfponyland
Whaleslaughterland
Puffinland
Akvavitland
Björkland

....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Andrew B]

On 14/11/2012 16:07, Guy Barry wrote:
>
>
> "MC" wrote in message
> news:copespaz-07D1CE...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
>> the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.
>
> Here in the UK "Iceland" is the name of a well-known chain of frozen
> food retailers. Maybe they're trying to throw off that association.

Which reminds me of the old joke:
- What's the former name of Sri Lanka?
- Ceylon
- What's the former name of Iran?
- Persia
- What's the former name of Iceland?
- Bejam

[Stan Brown]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:56:40 -0500, MC wrote:
> Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
> the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.
>
> Some entries include Niceland, Rockland, Catch-A-Cloud-Land. Given the
> country's recent calamities natural and unnatural, some say a better
> idea is "Restartland."

What about "Bob"? IIRC, it won in Canada, but was disqualified by
governmental spoilsports.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Stan Brown]

Talking of Iceland, I'd like to recommend the film /Cold Fever/. A
young Japanese man travels to Iceland to perform a religious ritual
at the site of his parents' deaths, and he has some quite fascinating
adventures.

[Mark Brader]

Stan Brown:

> What about "Bob"? IIRC, it won in Canada, but was disqualified by
> governmental spoilsports.

You recall incorrectly.
--
Mark Brader | "I realised... at the traditional time --
Toronto | just after clicking on Send."
m...@vex.net | --Peter Duncanson

[Guy Barry]

"R H Draney" wrote in message news:k815a...@drn.newsguy.com...

> On the theory that the new name should refer to something the country is
> already
> associated with around the world, I offer the following suggestions:

> Sagaland
> Volcanoland
> Woollydwarfponyland
> Whaleslaughterland
> Puffinland
> Akvavitland
> Björkland

You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"Andrew B" wrote in message news:k8178k$c4i$1...@dont-email.me...

> Which reminds me of the old joke:
> - What's the former name of Sri Lanka?
> - Ceylon
> - What's the former name of Iran?
> - Persia
> - What's the former name of Iceland?
> - Bejam

Actually Bejam and Iceland were rivals, and Iceland bought up Bejam. But
that ruins the joke.

--
Guy Barry

[Mark Brader]

R.H. Draney:

>> On the theory that the new name should refer to something the
>> country is already associated with around the world, I offer
>> the following suggestions:

>> Sagaland
>> Volcanoland
>> Woollydwarfponyland
>> Whaleslaughterland
>> Puffinland
>> Akvavitland
>> Björkland

Guy Barry:

> You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.

Within the EU, though, it would have to be officially known as the
Former Icelandic Republic of Financialcollapseland.
--
Mark Brader "It's okay to have our own language if we feel
Toronto we need it, but why does it have to be used
m...@vex.net as a nose to look down?" -- Becky Slocombe

[R H Draney]

Mark Brader filted:

>
>R.H. Draney:
>>> On the theory that the new name should refer to something the
>>> country is already associated with around the world, I offer
>>> the following suggestions:
>
>>> Sagaland
>>> Volcanoland
>>> Woollydwarfponyland
>>> Whaleslaughterland
>>> Puffinland
>>> Akvavitland

>>> Bj�rkland

>
>Guy Barry:
>> You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.
>
>Within the EU, though, it would have to be officially known as the
>Former Icelandic Republic of Financialcollapseland.

Agreed...plain unadorned Financialcollapseland would be far too ambiguous....r

[R H Draney]

Stan Brown filted:

>
>On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:56:40 -0500, MC wrote:
>> Iceland is holding a contest for a new name, and people in this, one of
>> the smallest countries in Europe, are not sure whether it's a gag.
>>
>> Some entries include Niceland, Rockland, Catch-A-Cloud-Land. Given the
>> country's recent calamities natural and unnatural, some say a better
>> idea is "Restartland."
>
>
>What about "Bob"? IIRC, it won in Canada, but was disqualified by
>governmental spoilsports.

Some years ago, when The Country Formerly Known As Yugoslavia starting calving
bits of itself, I suggested that the portion left might like to take a new name
to underline the fact that it wasn't the now-defunct country with all those
extra parts...the name I recommended was "Debbie"....r

[Mark Brader]

R.H. Draney:

> Some years ago, when The Country Formerly Known As Yugoslavia
> starting calving bits of itself, I suggested that the portion
> left might like to take a new name to underline the fact that
> it wasn't the now-defunct country with all those extra parts...

And so it did, of course: "Serbia and Montenegro". That lasted
2 years, I think, before it in turn split up along the line of
the "and".

> the name I recommended was "Debbie".

Oh well.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Every new technology carries with it an opportunity
m...@vex.net | to invent a new crime" -- Laurence A. Urgenson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Skitt]

Guy Barry wrote:

> "R H Draney" wrote:

>> On the theory that the new name should refer to something the country
>> is already
>> associated with around the world, I offer the following suggestions:
>
>> Sagaland
>> Volcanoland
>> Woollydwarfponyland
>> Whaleslaughterland
>> Puffinland
>> Akvavitland
>> Björkland
>
> You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.
>

A name swap with Greenland might be a mutually beneficial solution.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt

[Stan Brown]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:41:25 -0600, Mark Brader wrote:
>
> Stan Brown:
> > What about "Bob"? IIRC, it won in Canada, but was disqualified by
> > governmental spoilsports.
>
> You recall incorrectly.

Si non e vero, e ben trovato. :-)

[Stan Brown]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:07:23 -0600, Mark Brader wrote:
>
>
> Guy Barry:
> > You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.
>
> Within the EU, though, it would have to be officially known as the
> Former Icelandic Republic of Financialcollapseland.

Wouldn't it be "Financialcollapseland, not the one with the retsina
lake but the other one"?

[Mike L]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:07:23 -0600, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>R.H. Draney:
>>> On the theory that the new name should refer to something the
>>> country is already associated with around the world, I offer
>>> the following suggestions:
>
>>> Sagaland
>>> Volcanoland
>>> Woollydwarfponyland
>>> Whaleslaughterland
>>> Puffinland
>>> Akvavitland

>>> Bj�rkland

>
>Guy Barry:
>> You missed the obvious one: Financialcollapseland.
>
>Within the EU, though, it would have to be officially known as the
>Former Icelandic Republic of Financialcollapseland.

Not that it's actually _in_ the EU.

I reckon they'll pull through quicker than most: they seem to be good
at staying calm and getting on with it.

--
Mike.

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Stan Brown wrote:
>
> Si non e vero, e ben trovato. :-)
>

Se non � vero, � ben trovato.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Rey's my name,
Lashon HaRa's my game.

[erilar]

Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
language.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Guy Barry]

"Mike L" wrote in message
news:04uaa8dv1detvghrv...@4ax.com...

> I reckon they'll pull through quicker than most: they seem to be good
> at staying calm and getting on with it.

They must have achieved something. They're now an official unit of
population comparison.

--
Guy Barry

[Guy Barry]

"erilar" wrote in message
news:drache-22B536....@news.eternal-september.org...

> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
> language.

Ukraine used to be called "the Ukraine" in English, but the Ukrainians
objected to it, even though it's not their language either.

--
Guy Barry

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:34:11 -0000, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>

Ukrainians don't have the definite article in their language, and can't
understand why anyone else would want to.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Mike L]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:05:01 -0600, erilar
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:

>Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
>language.

Not far off, though.

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

On 16/11/12 3:00 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:34:11 -0000, "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "erilar" wrote in message
>> news:drache-22B536....@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
>>> language.
>>
>> Ukraine used to be called "the Ukraine" in English, but the Ukrainians
>> objected to it, even though it's not their language either.
>
> Ukrainians don't have the definite article in their language, and can't
> understand why anyone else would want to.
>
>

But they were quite definite about it. Just as well it wasn't a
demonstrative pronoun.

--
Robert Bannister

[Curlytop]

erilar set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:

> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
> language.

Simple translation of the native name Island.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Curlytop]

R H Draney set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

> Puffinland
There's already one of those, in the UK, that's what the name of Lundy (a
little island off the north Devon coast) means.

> Björkland
If it must be named after a famous native, I would rather it be a more
respectable one, now sadly no longer with us. Magnusland? Passland?

[Guy Barry]

"Curlytop" wrote in message news:k87k0d$hbd$2...@dont-email.me...

> erilar set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:

> > Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
> > language.

> Simple translation of the native name Island.

If it were called "Island" in English, there'd be no end of confusion.

--
Guy Barry

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:10:57 +0000, Curlytop
<pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>R H Draney set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>continuum:
>
>> Puffinland
>There's already one of those, in the UK, that's what the name of Lundy (a
>little island off the north Devon coast) means.

Not to be confused with Puffin Island, Anglesey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_Island_%28Anglesey%29

>
>> Björkland
>If it must be named after a famous native, I would rather it be a more
>respectable one, now sadly no longer with us. Magnusland? Passland?

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

There was temporary confusion in my brain when I saw a vehicle (a small
camper van, I think) parked at a tourist place on the north Irish coast.
Above the registration plate at the back it had another plate saying
"ISLAND". It took me a few seconds of exercising the memory cells, and a
sight of the oval country plate "IS", to realise that the van was from
Iceland.

[Guy Barry]

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:l2vea8lmfgfia70l0...@4ax.com...

Well I suppose it *is* an island, so the name would be accurate. Just as
when Goran Persson was Prime Minister of Sweden - no one doubted that he was
a person.

--
Guy Barry

[Stan Brown]

That's why it has to be translated. "Is" is Scandinacian for "ice".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2012-11-15 09:53:29 +0000, Mark Brader said:

> R.H. Draney:
>> Some years ago, when The Country Formerly Known As Yugoslavia
>> starting calving bits of itself, I suggested that the portion
>> left might like to take a new name to underline the fact that
>> it wasn't the now-defunct country with all those extra parts...
>
> And so it did, of course: "Serbia and Montenegro".

Not immediately, though. I think it continued to call itself Yugoslavia
for a while.

> That lasted
> 2 years, I think, before it in turn split up along the line of
> the "and".
>
>> the name I recommended was "Debbie".
>
> Oh well.


--

athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

And now, for extra points, if, a considerable time ago, you had seen a
vehicle with an oval plate saying "SE", where would it have been from?
(Hint: the answer is not Sweden or Senegal).


--
athel

[R H Draney]

Guy Barry filted:

John Donne was wrong; one Man *is* an island:

54�09&#8242;N 4�29&#8242;W

[erilar]

In article <k87kb5$hbd$3...@dont-email.me>,

Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> R H Draney set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
> > Puffinland
> There's already one of those, in the UK, that's what the name of Lundy (a
> little island off the north Devon coast) means.
>

> > Bj嗷kland

> If it must be named after a famous native, I would rather it be a more
> respectable one, now sadly no longer with us. Magnusland? Passland?

Snorriland?

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <k87k0d$hbd$2...@dont-email.me>,

Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> erilar set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
>
> > Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
> > language.
>
> Simple translation of the native name Island.

English has its own version of many country names 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <k88eb...@drn.newsguy.com>,

R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

> John Donne was wrong; one Man *is* an island:
>
> 54�09&#8242;N 4�29&#8242;W
>

giggling 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <ufcda89e6co97t2bt...@4ax.com>,

The word, yes, but not the language.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Oliver Cromm]

* Curlytop:

> R H Draney set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>

>> Björkland
> If it must be named after a famous native, I would rather it be a more
> respectable one, now sadly no longer with us. Magnusland? Passland?

Land of Laxness - lots of positive associations.

--
OliverC

[Mike L]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:56:21 -0600, erilar
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:

>In article <k88eb...@drn.newsguy.com>,
> R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> John Donne was wrong; one Man *is* an island:
>>
>> 54°09&#8242;N 4°29&#8242;W
>>
>
>giggling 8-)

Glad you're not a moaner - that would be the wrong angle, see?

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

On 18/11/12 1:57 AM, erilar wrote:
> In article <ufcda89e6co97t2bt...@4ax.com>,
> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:05:01 -0600, erilar
>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
>>> language.
>>
>> Not far off, though.
>
> The word, yes, but not the language.
>

Not too hard to read with a knowledge of German, but I couldn't
understand a word when my Icelandic friends spoke.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

So do many other countries.

--
Robert Bannister

[Mark Brader]

R.H. Draney:
>>> Some years ago, when The Country Formerly Known As Yugoslavia
>>> starting calving bits of itself, I suggested that the portion
>>> left might like to take a new name to underline the fact that
>>> it wasn't the now-defunct country with all those extra parts...

Mark Brader:

>> And so it did, of course: "Serbia and Montenegro".

Athel Cornish-Bowden:

> Not immediately, though. I think it continued to call itself Yugoslavia
> for a while.

Correct.
--
Mark Brader First, the next time you buy a house, get one that
m...@vex.net costs exactly $100,000. It makes the math easier.
Toronto -- John Gilmer

[Christian Weisgerber]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

> >>> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
> >>> language.
> >>
> >> Not far off, though.
> >
> > The word, yes, but not the language.
>
> Not too hard to read with a knowledge of German,

Icelandic is impenetrable to me and knowing German is no help. You
might be confusing this with Danish (Norwegian, Swedish), which is
full of German loans and calques, as well as general international
vocabulary, although "not too hard to read" is still overly optimistic.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Harrison Hill]

On Nov 17, 3:20 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> On 2012-11-17 12:08:44 +0000, Peter Duncanson [BrE] said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 09:28:24 -0000, "Guy Barry"

> > <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> "Curlytop"  wrote in messagenews:k87k0d$hbd$2...@dont-email.me...

>
> >>> erilar set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> >>> continuum:
>
> >>>> Note: it's called Iceland in English.  English is not the country's
> >>>> language.
>
> >>> Simple translation of the native name Island.
>
> >> If it were called "Island" in English, there'd be no end of confusion.
>
> > There was temporary confusion in my brain when I saw a vehicle (a small
> > camper van, I think) parked at a tourist place on the north Irish coast.
> > Above the registration plate at the back it had another plate saying
> > "ISLAND". It took me a few seconds of exercising the memory cells, and a
> > sight of the oval country plate "IS", to realise that the van was from
> > Iceland.
>
> And now, for extra points, if, a considerable time ago, you had seen a
> vehicle with an oval plate saying "SE", where would it have been from?
> (Hint: the answer is not Sweden or Senegal).

"Sud-Est" - Romania, Haiti (or rather implausibly) Île Sud-Est, the
largest island in the Egmont Islands (Six Iles) .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sud-Est

[Mike L]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 07:41:04 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 18/11/12 1:57 AM, erilar wrote:
>> In article <ufcda89e6co97t2bt...@4ax.com>,
>> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:05:01 -0600, erilar
>>> <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note: it's called Iceland in English. English is not the country's
>>>> language.
>>>
>>> Not far off, though.
>>
>> The word, yes, but not the language.

I meant that in my experience, the place is practically bilingual.

>>
>
>Not too hard to read with a knowledge of German, but I couldn't
>understand a word when my Icelandic friends spoke.

You were lucky to get them to speak Icelandic at all.

--
Mike.

[erilar]

In article <agqlkg...@mid.individual.net>,

I could still figure out a good deal of Old Icelandic/Old Norse yet when
I visited Iceland, though it was rusty, so I could figure out signs
pretty well. Listening to modern Icelandic and understanding it is
another dimension I can't travel in.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <3f4ga8l23st9kluvv...@4ax.com>,

ouch 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Robert Bannister]

Well, the only written Icelandic I have ever seen was in the newspaper
my friends took. Since the pictures revealed what the story was about,
and since one had already read about whatever it was, it wasn't too hard
to follow the article. I don't know whether the number of words I could
figure out was 50% or considerably less, but knowing the subject makes a
huge difference. I can (sometimes) understand spoken Dutch too if I
listen for a while, but only if I have clues about what the subject of
the conversation. Swiss German is more difficult, but the same thing
applies.

Despite "doing" three months of Swedish when I was at the FU in Berlin,
I still find it very hard to get much from modern Scandinavian
languages, but of course I spent quite a bit of my time at university in
England and Germany being forced to read Althochdeutsch, which perhaps
makes Icelandic less impenetrable. In addition, I was forty years
younger when I knew the Icelanders and my brain was a bit more agile.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Akvavit is the secret. Wish I could remember where I got it from.

--
Robert Bannister

[James Hogg]

Göran Persson was known in Swenglish as "Goran with two pricks".

--
James

[Christian Weisgerber]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

> Well, the only written Icelandic I have ever seen was in the newspaper
> my friends took.

You can now trivially find examples of text in major languages--and
minor ones from rich countries--by going to the respective Wikipedia
edition. Here's Icelandic:
https://is.wikipedia.org/

[erilar]

In article <agtjk3...@mid.individual.net>,

Althochdeutsch has not diverged from its common ancestry with Old
Icelandic, and modern Icelanders can read the latter, because written
modern Icelandic is so close to it. Spoken modern Icelandic has
diverged greatly therefrom.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Iain Archer]

Guy Barry wrote on Thu, 15 Nov 2012
>
>
>"Andrew B" wrote in message news:k8178k$c4i$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> Which reminds me of the old joke:
>> - What's the former name of Sri Lanka?
>> - Ceylon
>> - What's the former name of Iran?
>> - Persia
>> - What's the former name of Iceland?
>> - Bejam
>
>Actually Bejam and Iceland were rivals, and Iceland bought up Bejam.
>But that ruins the joke.
>
Almost as bad as:

How do you pronounce M-A-C-A-V-I-T-Y?
How do you pronounce M-A-C-I-N-T-O-S-H?
How do you pronounce M-A-C-H-I-N-E?
--
Iain Archer