in debitures of quality
Hueyduck
I've been learning a very well known song from Janis Ian ("At
seventeen"), and I'm stuck with the meaning of a the 3rd verse of the
following strophe. Could someone explain what Janis means by:
"So remember those who win the game
Lose the love they sought to gain
*In debitures of quality and dubious integrity*
Their small-town eyes will gape at you
In dull surprise when payment due
Exceeds accounts received at seveteen"
I ommitted the punctuation in purpose, because according to the parts I
understood so far, the verse
"In debitures of quality and dubious integrity" (wich is the one I don't
understand because of the word 'debitures') could be part of either the
beginning or the end of the strophe.
The music tells that my problematic verse is the end of the first
sentence, though.
If anyone ever had to be reminded the context of this strophe, here it is:
A woman remembers how she was excluded from many of the teen pleasures
when she was seventeen, and how the rich and blond girls had it all
without even trying. The strophe stresses out that if the teenage was an
easy time for those girls, the rest of their boring lives often was to
be a bitter price to pay and a golden cage for the rather short
happinness they once had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k39P2MK6WPo
last but not least: I do *not* hear "debitures". But I do'nt identify
what I hear instead, so...
Thx for your help
Huey
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>I've been learning a very well known song from Janis Ian ("At
>seventeen"), and I'm stuck with the meaning of a the 3rd verse of the
>following strophe. Could someone explain what Janis means by:
>
>"So remember those who win the game
>Lose the love they sought to gain
>*In debitures of quality and dubious integrity*
>Their small-town eyes will gape at you
>In dull surprise when payment due
>Exceeds accounts received at seveteen"
>
>I ommitted the punctuation in purpose, because according to the parts I
>understood so far, the verse
>"In debitures of quality and dubious integrity" (wich is the one I don't
>understand because of the word 'debitures') could be part of either the
>beginning or the end of the strophe.
You have misheard an unfamiliar word.
It is "debentures", not "debitures".
See the lyrics here:
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/atsevent.htm
A debenture is a type of financial investment in a company.
http://www.moneyglossary.com/?w=Debenture
>The music tells that my problematic verse is the end of the first
>sentence, though.
>
>If anyone ever had to be reminded the context of this strophe, here it is:
>A woman remembers how she was excluded from many of the teen pleasures
>when she was seventeen, and how the rich and blond girls had it all
>without even trying. The strophe stresses out that if the teenage was an
>easy time for those girls, the rest of their boring lives often was to
>be a bitter price to pay and a golden cage for the rather short
>happinness they once had.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k39P2MK6WPo
>
>last but not least: I do *not* hear "debitures". But I do'nt identify
>what I hear instead, so...
>
>
>Thx for your help
>
>Huey
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
MC
Hueyduck <sea-...@kaspop.com> wrote:
According to this site:
http://www.risa.co.uk/sla/song.php?songid=10058
it's "debentures" not "debitures" (which as far as I'm aware isnšt a
word).
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
Hueyduck
> In article <4d665ce8$0$26355$426a...@news.free.fr>,
>
> it's "debentures" not "debitures" (which as far as I'm aware isnšt a
> word).
>
Thanks to both of you.
This make sense. Actually, I could only find "debiture" in latin vocabulary.
You could'nt imagine the number of site that spread the "debiture"
mistake in this song's lyric reproduction. I hadn't even thought it
could actually be something else.
Thanks again and good evening to you all.
Huey
abzorba
> MC a crit :
>
> > In article <4d665ce8$0$26355$426a7...@news.free.fr>,
>
> > it's "debentures" not "debitures" (which as far as I'm aware isn t a
> > word).
>
> Thanks to both of you.
> This make sense. Actually, I could only find "debiture" in latin vocabulary.
>
> You could'nt imagine the number of site that spread the "debiture"
> mistake in this song's lyric reproduction. I hadn't even thought it
> could actually be something else.
>
> Thanks again and good evening to you all.
>
> Huey
It's debentures, NOT debitures??!! Then, why did I shed all those
tears for so many years?
Myles (Shhhesssh, "debentures"? It's a legal thing, I want my tears
back) Paulsen
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<myle...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>Myles (Shhhesssh, "debentures"? It's a legal thing, I want my tears
>back) Paulsen
With interest, I hope.
Peter Moylan
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been learning a very well known song from Janis Ian ("At
> seventeen"), and I'm stuck with the meaning of a the 3rd verse of the
> following strophe. Could someone explain what Janis means by:
>
> "So remember those who win the game
> Lose the love they sought to gain
> *In debitures of quality and dubious integrity*
> Their small-town eyes will gape at you
> In dull surprise when payment due
> Exceeds accounts received at seveteen"
Actually, you mean the third line of the following verse.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
bluestarsp...@gmail.com
Athel Cornish-Bowden
An answer to something posted in 1999?
A google groper, of course.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
If you had a decent newsreader, you would immediately see that the original
posting was made on February 24, 2011, and received six responses. It concerned
a lyric by Janis Ian.
Will Parsons
server, and how long it retains articles.
--
Will
Peter Moylan
> A debenture is a lone without collateral in this context I think.
By the way, "alone" doesn't have a space.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Charles Bishop
--
charles
snide...@gmail.com
which makes distinguishing between the two less important.
> Is it possible PTD thinks GG is a decent newsreader?
FWIW, I too think GG is a decent newsreader.
I do not consider it an outstanding one, although somethings are done well.
/dps
Will Parsons
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 1:04:15 PM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
>> Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote:
>> > On Friday, 2 Oct 2015 11:25 AM -0400, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> > > If you had a decent newsreader, you would immediately see that the original
>> > > posting was made on February 24, 2011, and received six responses. It
>> > > concerned
>> > > a lyric by Janis Ian.
>> >
>> > It actually doesn't so much depend on the newsreader, but the news
>> > server, and how long it retains articles.
>
> There sometimes is a strong umbilical between a newsreader and its server,
> which makes distinguishing between the two less important.
us that use real newsreaders can (and do) connect to multiple servers.
--
Will
snide...@gmail.com
> On Wednesday, 7 Oct 2015 5:15 PM -0400, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 1:04:15 PM UTC-7, Charles Bishop wrote:
> >> Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote:
> >> > On Friday, 2 Oct 2015 11:25 AM -0400, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> >> > > If you had a decent newsreader, you would immediately see that the original
> >> > > posting was made on February 24, 2011, and received six responses. It
> >> > > concerned
> >> > > a lyric by Janis Ian.
> >> >
> >> > It actually doesn't so much depend on the newsreader, but the news
> >> > server, and how long it retains articles.
> >
> > There sometimes is a strong umbilical between a newsreader and its server,
> > which makes distinguishing between the two less important.
>
> Sometimes? GG perhaps, if you consider that a newsreader.
> Those of
> us that use real newsreaders can (and do) connect to multiple servers.
differences sourced from different servers.
If I was more into local groups, multiple servers might be more important to me.
E-S does well enough for me that the only other server I connect to
is the one run by the newsreader author.
And GG does well enough for me when I'm away from that newsreader.
/dps
snide...@gmail.com
that I could of picked any one of the other well-known servers
or a server in the Cisco lab of the local community college,
or a server in the penthouse of an apartment building on Wilshire Boulevard.
Picking one run by the local ISP was once a tradition, now a rarity.
> And GG does well enough for me when I'm away from that newsreader.
/dps
David Kleinecke
What's wrong with it?
snide...@gmail.com
multiple sorting techniques, a couple of bad header settings
(applies to outgoing more than reading), 30 year archive, etc.
Take your choice.
/dps
Snidely
> or a server in the Cisco lab of the local community college,
> or a server in the penthouse of an apartment building on Wilshire Boulevard.
> Picking one run by the local ISP was once a tradition, now a rarity.
>
>> And GG does well enough for me when I'm away from that newsreader.
>
> Still true, even with the point observed.
>
--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
David Kleinecke
but I have never used it.
Do my communications on AUE show any apparent defect?
Peter T. Daniels
David Kleinecke
snide...@gmail.com
broken text as seen by many other readers (and, eventually, by you)
due to one of those header gotchas. Ligatures and foreign (non-E) letters
are vulnerable. If I recall the experiments correctly, though,
ligs and non-E /you/ insert don't break.
You take care of the other by managing your line lengths by hand.
The output that was most influenced by lack of filters
seemed to come from Bath rather than mid-California.
/dps
Charles Bishop
layout, and the number of replies that could be made.
Of course this could all be me, and not knowing how to use it. Snidely
uses it and he is a fellow of infinite wisdom, so there must be
something good about it.
--
chrles
Charles Bishop
using it. I don't want to start a newsreader (Ford/Chevy) war, it was
just difficult for me to use, and I assumed it was that way for everyone.
Snidely has added reasons I hadn't thought of or encountered.
--
charles
Snidely
>> What's wrong with it?
>
> I may have wiped the memory of it but I found it difficult to use in
> layout, and the number of replies that could be made.
>
> Of course this could all be me, and not knowing how to use it. Snidely
> uses it and he is a fellow of infinite wisdom, so there must be
> something good about it.
/dps
--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)
Charles Bishop
> Charles Bishop blurted out:
> > David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> What's wrong with it?
> >
> > I may have wiped the memory of it but I found it difficult to use in
> > layout, and the number of replies that could be made.
> >
> > Of course this could all be me, and not knowing how to use it. Snidely
> > uses it and he is a fellow of infinite wisdom, so there must be
> > something good about it.
>
> So I'm a wise guy, eh? Why you !!!!
>
> /dps
"He called me a you-you"
--
charles
ephraim...@gmail.com
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been learning a very well known song from Janis Ian ("At
> seventeen"), and I'm stuck with the meaning of a the 3rd verse of the
> following strophe. Could someone explain what Janis means by:
>
> "So remember those who win the game
> Lose the love they sought to gain
> *In debitures of quality and dubious integrity*
> Their small-town eyes will gape at you
> In dull surprise when payment due
> Exceeds accounts received at seveteen"
>
> understood so far, the verse
> "In debitures of quality and dubious integrity" (wich is the one I don't
> understand because of the word 'debitures') could be part of either the
> beginning or the end of the strophe.
> The music tells that my problematic verse is the end of the first
> sentence, though.
>
> If anyone ever had to be reminded the context of this strophe, here it is:
> A woman remembers how she was excluded from many of the teen pleasures
> when she was seventeen, and how the rich and blond girls had it all
> without even trying. The strophe stresses out that if the teenage was an
> easy time for those girls, the rest of their boring lives often was to
> be a bitter price to pay and a golden cage for the rather short
> happinness they once had.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k39P2MK6WPo
>
> last but not least: I do *not* hear "debitures". But I do'nt identify
> what I hear instead, so...
>
>
> Thx for your help
>
> Huey
Dear Huey,
Some time has passed since your inquiry.
I just looked at the lyrics for the first time tonight for Janis Ian's "At Seventeen" (February 2016). Some websites indicate debitures and some debentures. I hear "debentures" (though I don't claim to be familiar with the pronunciation of he word.)
However, I the English word, and the Latin are close enough in meaning, that as a lifelong songwriter, I am convinced that understanding the verse's meaning does not depend on correctly discerning between the two. According to a Latin online dictionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/debiturus#Latin , "debitures" appears to have meant "about to owe". Both the English and the Latin are clearly from the same root.
It is a painful song. I remember,as a child, watching her perform it on late night television in the U.S.
