[OT] 'My tailor is rich' (Asterix)

[J. J. Lodder]

Another bit of Asterix trivia decoded:
In 'Asterix chez les Bretons'/Asterix in Britain,
the Breton (Jolitorax)
uses the puzzling phrase 'Mon Taileur est riche',
resp. 'My tailor is rich',
in reply to a comment about his clothing.

By accident I stumbled upon the explanation:
It is the first sentence in the age old book
for learning English for the French. (Methode Assimil)
<http://www.cdiscount.com/livres-bd/dictionnaire-langues/mon-tailleur-es
t-riche-and-so-is-my-english/f-10512-9782759013357.html>

Obvious to the French, hard to guess for all others,

Jan

[Lanarcam]

It is obvious only to the French of a certain age. I am not
young but I remember that we didn't learn that when I started
learning English back then. Perhaps the generation of my parents.

[Don Phillipson]

"J. J. Lodder" <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:1m9rj0z.139...@de-ster.xs4all.nl...

http://www.cdiscount.com/livres-bd/dictionnaire-langues/mon-tailleur-est-riche-and-so-is-my-english/f-10512-9782759013357.html?idOffre=58115717#mpos=1|mp

'Asterix chez les Bretons' dates from 1965, it seems:
This is 15 years later than Ionesco's play La Cantatrice
Chauve (The Bald Soprano), suggested by the Assimil system
of programmed instruction in English. It begins with
English Mr. Smith reading his English newspaper
after his English breakfast, and so on.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Charles Hope]

In article <mrkk7o$en7$1...@news.albasani.net>,

The title over here is "The Bald Prima Donna"

[Harrison Hill]

"La plume de ma tante" was our equivalent.

[Charles Hope]

In article <d854fc97-34db-40cd...@googlegroups.com>,

bien sûr

[snide...@gmail.com]

Obviously I didn't get the reference to the Methode Assimil,
but the English /Monde/ of the 18th and early 19th Centuries
seemed to have quite a preoccupation with clothes,
so it's easy to understand how a tailor might become rich.

I don't remember if I picked up on that sentence when I sorta-read the book;
my French wasn't very solid, with just 3 years of Jr High level
(maybe 2 years at the time my brother sent the book).

What I remember most vividly about le Anglais was cutting his lawn with
a minature sickle. Which was a graphic joke, rather than word play.

/dps

[Oliver Cromm]

* Lanarcam:

I don't know how old you are, but I am younger than most of the
participants here. Now a colleague my age, who is from France and
was struggling with English when he entered the company, sometimes
says that phrase, that's where I know it from.

--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.

[Lanarcam]

Le 26/08/2015 19:34, Oliver Cromm a écrit :
> * Lanarcam:
>
>> Le 26/08/2015 13:21, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
>>> Another bit of Asterix trivia decoded:
>>> In 'Asterix chez les Bretons'/Asterix in Britain,
>>> the Breton (Jolitorax)
>>> uses the puzzling phrase 'Mon Taileur est riche',
>>> resp. 'My tailor is rich',
>>> in reply to a comment about his clothing.
>>>
>>> By accident I stumbled upon the explanation:
>>> It is the first sentence in the age old book
>>> for learning English for the French. (Methode Assimil)
>>> <http://www.cdiscount.com/livres-bd/dictionnaire-langues/mon-tailleur-es
>>> t-riche-and-so-is-my-english/f-10512-9782759013357.html>
>>>
>>> Obvious to the French, hard to guess for all others,
>>>
>> It is obvious only to the French of a certain age. I am not
>> young but I remember that we didn't learn that when I started
>> learning English back then. Perhaps the generation of my parents.
>
> I don't know how old you are, but I am younger than most of the
> participants here. Now a colleague my age, who is from France and
> was struggling with English when he entered the company, sometimes
> says that phrase, that's where I know it from.
>

The sentence is still known but not taught anymore, it is
a kind ok joke.

[J. J. Lodder]

The Assimil system is alive and well.
<http://fr.assimil.com/>
They produce a game with the same title nowadays.

Google tells me that Goscinny also parodied Assimil
also with other phases like:
"Mon jardin est plus petit que Rome,
mais mon pilum est plus solide que votre sternum!"
which is also a recurring pattern,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

> bien sūr

The quote has a wiki page of it's own
<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_tailor_is_rich>
which similar examples for other languages.

Also used by Louis de Funčs, as 'Le Gendarme'.
He is in New York, and has to pretend being a teacher of French,
so you can guess what he says,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Goscinny liked to parody guide books.
As in 'Asterix Legionaire', where he instructed Uderzo
that the Egyption (Courdetennis) should speak his hieroglyphs
in Club Med and Guide Michelin symbmols.

He even infuriates Caesar by asking him
if he is the 'Gentil Organisateur' of the camp,

Jan

[Helen Lacedaemonian]

I habitually eat
whatever is sweet,
yet every new diet
tempts me to try it.

I get fat, then thin,
and back to fat again.
My tailor grows rich
each time I switch.

Best,
Helen

[Peter Moylan]

I've heard that it was originally "L'Institutrice Blonde". I'm not sure
why it was changed.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Aug-27 00:58, Don Phillipson wrote:

> 'Asterix chez les Bretons' dates from 1965, it seems:
> This is 15 years later than Ionesco's play La Cantatrice
> Chauve (The Bald Soprano), suggested by the Assimil system
> of programmed instruction in English. It begins with
> English Mr. Smith reading his English newspaper
> after his English breakfast, and so on.

But was his hovercraft full of eels?

[Robert Bannister]

Wikipedia was more useful:
« My tailor is rich » (littéralement « Mon tailleur est riche ») est la
première phrase de L'Anglais sans peine, premier ouvrage de la méthode
Assimil d'apprentissage de l'anglais, écrit par Alphonse Chérel en 1929.
Cette phrase a été créée en utilisant des mots transparents (tailor >
tailleur, rich > riche) afin de faciliter le début de l'apprentissage.

Elle a été parodiée et reprise de nombreuses fois, par exemple dans La
Cantatrice chauve, Astérix chez les Bretons, Le Petit Nicolas (histoire
"Djodjo") ou Le Gendarme à New York et l'Exorciste mais elle est aussi
utilisée en aviation pour la même raison de parodie. Depuis, les
méthodes Assimil ont évolué, mais cette phrase continue d'être utilisée
dans le langage courant pour évoquer l'apprentissage de l'anglais.

De telles références sont teintées d'humour, car cette phrase est
difficile à placer dans une conversation.

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Robert Bannister]

A bit like "la plume de ma tante" for English people. I don't think I've
ever seen that in a beginners' French book, but the phrase is often
trotted out as an example and allegedly goes back to the 19th century.

Wiki:
As Life magazine said in 1958, "As every student knows, the most
idiotically useless phrase in a beginner's French textbook is la plume
de ma tante (the pen of my aunt)." The phrase is also used to refer to
something deemed completely irrelevant. The term lent its name to the
musical play La Plume de Ma Tante, which won a Tony Award in 1959.

[Will Parsons]

My mother told me about it (I think as being part of her education),
so it's probably from the generation before me. My memory may be
incorrect, but I think the whole sentence was: "La plume de ma tante
est sur la table".

--
Will

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Will Parsons wrote:
>
> My memory may be incorrect,
> but I think the whole sentence was:
> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table".
>

Variant:

"La plume de ma tante est sur la table de mon oncle."

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Aug-27 11:20, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> A bit like "la plume de ma tante" for English people. I don't think I've
> ever seen that in a beginners' French book, but the phrase is often
> trotted out as an example and allegedly goes back to the 19th century.
>
> Wiki:
> As Life magazine said in 1958, "As every student knows, the most
> idiotically useless phrase in a beginner's French textbook is la plume
> de ma tante (the pen of my aunt)." The phrase is also used to refer to
> something deemed completely irrelevant. The term lent its name to the
> musical play La Plume de Ma Tante, which won a Tony Award in 1959.

It's also been made into a song.

La-la-la-la plume de ma tante
Est sur le bureau de mon oncle.
Le papier de mon oncle
Est sur le bureau de ma tante.

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in news:mrlo55$ome$2@dont-
email.me:

> On 2015-Aug-27 00:58, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> 'Asterix chez les Bretons' dates from 1965, it seems:
>> This is 15 years later than Ionesco's play La Cantatrice
>> Chauve (The Bald Soprano), suggested by the Assimil system
>> of programmed instruction in English. It begins with
>> English Mr. Smith reading his English newspaper
>> after his English breakfast, and so on.
>
> But was his hovercraft full of eels?

Only after his postillion was struck by lightning....r

[R H Draney]

Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnmtsq4d...@anukis.local:

I used to look for opportunities when shopping to hold up a big red spoon
and say in the least natural accent possible "ĄYo tengo una cuchara roja
grande!"...there was something about the sentence and the childish delivery
that none of us could stop giggling about....

When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that went
beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai desu yo!"...I
figured it was both unusual and potentially useful....r

[James Hogg]

I vividly remember our first lessons in French. We had been drilled in
sentences like that, yet still, after a week or so, one of my friends
wrote "Jean's livre", assuming that possessive constructions worked the
same way in French as in English.

--
James

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Aug-27 14:42, R H Draney wrote:
> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that went
> beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai desu yo!"...I
> figured it was both unusual and potentially useful.

You had to go and make us look that up, didn't you? When I tried to,
Google Translate said

Did you mean ふぐ お 食べたくない です よ

[LFS]

On 27/08/2015 03:00, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> Will Parsons wrote:
>>
>> My memory may be incorrect,
>> but I think the whole sentence was:
>> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table".
>>
> Variant:
>
> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table de mon oncle."
>

As I was taught. But I was distracted by wondering why, since my aunts
and uncles all seemed to share both pens and tables.

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[the Omrud]

Disgusting.

--
David

[J. J. Lodder]

Eh? A Breton of course.

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Not absurdist enough?

Jan

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in

news:mrmb6k$5ev$2...@dont-email.me:

> On 2015-Aug-27 14:42, R H Draney wrote:
>> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that
>> went beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai
>> desu yo!"...I figured it was both unusual and potentially useful.
>
> You had to go and make us look that up, didn't you? When I tried to,
> Google Translate said
>
> Did you mean ふぐ お 食べたくない です よ

No idea why Google thinks "yo" is "Contact" rather than the sentence-ending
particle that makes a statement more emphatic....r

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 08/26/2015 10:00 PM, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:

>> My memory may be incorrect,
>> but I think the whole sentence was:
>> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table".
>>
> Variant:
>
> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table de mon oncle."

Non! Non! "La plume de ma tante est dans le jardin."

Perce

[James Hogg]

"La plume de ma tante est dans le jardin de mon père" is one of the
early forms that appeared in print.

--
James

[Jerry Friedman]

Attention: Danger de syndrome de mélodie fixe.

Les lilas sont-ils fleuris?

--
Jerry Friedman

[James Hogg]

Chanson-velcro is the term used in Québec, I believe

> Les lilas sont-ils fleuris?

--

James

[Jerry Friedman]

"L'idée de la pièce est venue à Ionesco lorsqu'il a essayé d'apprendre
l'anglais par le biais de la méthode Assimil. Frappé par la teneur des
dialogues, à la fois très sobres et étranges mais aussi par
l'enchaînement de phrases sans rapport, il décide d'écrire une pièce
absurde intitulée l'anglais sans peine. Mais ce titre ne plait pas au
metteur en scène, celui-ci désire changer ce titre trop proche de
L'Anglais tel qu'on le parle, de Tristan Bernard. Ce n'est qu'après un
trou de mémoire, lors d'une répétition, que le titre de la pièce est
fixé : le comédien qui jouait le pompier transforma « institutrice
blonde » en « cantatrice chauve ». Ionesco, dans la salle, se lève d'un
bond et s'écrit : C'est le titre !"

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cantatrice_chauve

For those who want a translation:

The idea of the play came to Ionesco when he tried to learn English by
means of the Assimil method. Struck by the tenor of the dialogues, very
sober and strange at the same time, and also by the sequence of
unrelated sentences, he decided to write an absurd play called
/L'Anglais sans peine/ [English Without Trouble]. But that title didn't
please the director; he wanted to change that title that was too close
to /L'Anglais tel qu'on le parle/ [English as it is Spoken], by Tristan
Bernard. It was only after a lapse of memory during a rehearsal that
the title of the play was settled: the actor playing the fireman
transformed "institutrice blonde" into "cantatrice chauve". Ionesco, in
the theater, jumped up and cried, "That's the title!"

--
Jerry Friedman

[Oliver Cromm]

* R H Draney:

> Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnmtsq4d...@anukis.local:
>
>> On Wednesday, 26 Aug 2015 9:20 PM -0400, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>>> A bit like "la plume de ma tante" for English people. I don't think
>>> I've ever seen that in a beginners' French book, but the phrase is
>>> often trotted out as an example and allegedly goes back to the 19th
>>> century.
>>
>> My mother told me about it (I think as being part of her education),
>> so it's probably from the generation before me. My memory may be
>> incorrect, but I think the whole sentence was: "La plume de ma tante
>> est sur la table".
>
> I used to look for opportunities when shopping to hold up a big red spoon

> and say in the least natural accent possible "¡Yo tengo una cuchara roja

> grande!"...there was something about the sentence and the childish delivery
> that none of us could stop giggling about....

I like to say "Hay en el dormitorio un despertador", from a
Spanish correspondence course that I canceled after the first
(free) installment. If there was an opportunity, "Juan trabajo en
el jardin" would be nice, too. It wasn't said, but I'm sure those
two are addressing Spanish pronunciations that are difficult for
many foreigners.

> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that went
> beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai desu yo!"...I
> figured it was both unusual and potentially useful....r

I found it is amusing to many Finnish people when a foreigner
suddenly says things like: "Oi, Ukko Ylijumala, käy tänne
kutsuttaissa." (got this one from Sibelius' Luonnotar)

--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch

[Paul Wolff]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> posted:

Which we see is a very short step from Terence Rattigan's play 'French
without Tears' (1936), written and produced a dozen years earlier.

>But that title didn't please the director; he wanted to change that
>title that was too close to /L'Anglais tel qu'on le parle/ [English as
>it is Spoken], by Tristan Bernard. It was only after a lapse of memory
>during a rehearsal that the title of the play was settled: the actor
>playing the fireman transformed "institutrice blonde" into "cantatrice
>chauve". Ionesco, in the theater, jumped up and cried, "That's the title!"
>

--

Paul

[Robert Bannister]

Whereas a realistic book would have had "Auntie's under the table again".

[Robert Bannister]

You might prefer this charming snippet:

Où est la très sage Heloïs,
Pour qui fut chastré et puis moyne
Pierre Esbaillart à Sainct-Denys?
Pour son amour eut cest essoyne.
Semblablement, où est la royne
Qui commanda que Buridan
Fust jetté en ung sac en Seine?
Mais où sont les neiges d'antan!

[Peter Moylan]

Lauriers, weren't they?

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Aug-27 21:18, R H Draney wrote:
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in
> news:mrmb6k$5ev$2...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 2015-Aug-27 14:42, R H Draney wrote:
>>> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that
>>> went beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai
>>> desu yo!"...I figured it was both unusual and potentially useful.
>>
>> You had to go and make us look that up, didn't you? When I tried to,
>> Google Translate said
>>

>> Did you mean ã µã ã Š 食㠹㠟ã 㠪㠄 㠧㠙 よ

>
> No idea why Google thinks "yo" is "Contact" rather than the sentence-ending
> particle that makes a statement more emphatic....r

That did look a little strange.

Anyway, thanks for that comment. I remember wondering why people were
suddenly starting to say "Yo!" twenty or so years ago.

[Peter Moylan]

Tant pis.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Aug-28 11:14, Robert Bannister wrote:

> You might prefer this charming snippet:
>
> Où est la très sage Heloïs,
> Pour qui fut chastré et puis moyne
> Pierre Esbaillart à Sainct-Denys?
> Pour son amour eut cest essoyne.
> Semblablement, où est la royne
> Qui commanda que Buridan
> Fust jetté en ung sac en Seine?
> Mais où sont les neiges d'antan!

That's from a slightly earlier era than the feather of my aunt.

[Snidely]

J. J. Lodder blurted out:

Oh, I was anachronistic, wasn't I?

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013

[Robin Bignall]

That's too early for it to be blamed on the influence of "The Wire", yo.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robin Bignall]

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:53:43 +0100, Robin Bignall
<docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:32:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
><pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2015-Aug-27 21:18, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:mrmb6k$5ev$2...@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-Aug-27 14:42, R H Draney wrote:
>>>>> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that
>>>>> went beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai
>>>>> desu yo!"...I figured it was both unusual and potentially useful.
>>>>
>>>> You had to go and make us look that up, didn't you? When I tried to,
>>>> Google Translate said
>>>>

>>>> Did you mean ã?µã?? ã?Š 食ã?¹ã?Ÿã??ã?ªã?„ ã?§ã?™ よ

>>>
>>> No idea why Google thinks "yo" is "Contact" rather than the sentence-ending
>>> particle that makes a statement more emphatic....r
>>
>>That did look a little strange.
>>
>>Anyway, thanks for that comment. I remember wondering why people were
>>suddenly starting to say "Yo!" twenty or so years ago.
>
>That's too early for it to be blamed on the influence of "The Wire", yo.

(That's really weird. Agent told me that this message above contained
characters that could not be sent using the current character set, and
that they would be replaced by ? characters. But where?)

[Robin Bignall]

<like>

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 12:56:54 PM UTC-7, Robin Bignall wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:53:43 +0100, Robin Bignall
> <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:32:11 +1000, Peter Moylan
> ><pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >>On 2015-Aug-27 21:18, R H Draney wrote:
> >>> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote

> >>>> On 2015-Aug-27 14:42, R H Draney wrote:

> >>>>> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that
> >>>>> went beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai
> >>>>> desu yo!"...I figured it was both unusual and potentially useful.
> >>>>
> >>>> You had to go and make us look that up, didn't you? When I tried to,
> >>>> Google Translate said
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you mean ã?µã?? ã?Š 食ã?¹ã?Ÿã??ã?ªã?„ ã?§ã?™ よ
> >>>
> >>> No idea why Google thinks "yo" is "Contact" rather than the sentence-ending
> >>> particle that makes a statement more emphatic....r
> >>
> >>That did look a little strange.
> >>
> >>Anyway, thanks for that comment. I remember wondering why people were
> >>suddenly starting to say "Yo!" twenty or so years ago.
> >
> >That's too early for it to be blamed on the influence of "The Wire", yo.

But it was common in the US, partly spread by NFL players and partly
by rappers; I'm thinking it arose in late '80s, not in the '70s,
and it was probably most common on the street where
integration was still beset by old red-lining woes.

There's another 'yo' which was an answer to roll calls,
in my experience mostly in gym classes,
and (by TV/movie report) in the military.
Unlike the emphasizer above, this one was equivalent to "Here, sir!"

> (That's really weird. Agent told me that this message above contained
> characters that could not be sent using the current character set, and
> that they would be replaced by ? characters. But where?)

In the quoted text. There's some non-Roman stuff, and now I've made sure
it is further mangled by quoting you from GG.

/dps

[Robin Bignall]

That's equally weird, for your quoted text is identical to my original
message. I have no idea what Agent was objecting to, and I've never
seen that error message before. The message is supposed to show the
character(s) it's objecting to, and then suggest other coding systems
that would cope. Both of the above fields were blank lines in the error
message.

[Peter T. Daniels]

As was in fact done to the Japanese passage you quoted.

[GordonD]

On 27/08/2015 05:42, R H Draney wrote:
> Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnmtsq4d...@anukis.local:
>

>> On Wednesday, 26 Aug 2015 9:20 PM -0400, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>>> A bit like "la plume de ma tante" for English people. I don't think
>>> I've ever seen that in a beginners' French book, but the phrase is
>>> often trotted out as an example and allegedly goes back to the 19th
>>> century.
>>
>> My mother told me about it (I think as being part of her education),
>> so it's probably from the generation before me. My memory may be
>> incorrect, but I think the whole sentence was: "La plume de ma tante
>> est sur la table".
>

> I used to look for opportunities when shopping to hold up a big red spoon
> and say in the least natural accent possible "¡Yo tengo una cuchara roja
> grande!"...there was something about the sentence and the childish delivery
> that none of us could stop giggling about....
>

> When a cow-orker asked me for a sentence she could use in Japan that went
> beyond the phrasebook stuff, I taught her "Fugu o tabetakunai desu yo!"...I

> figured it was both unusual and potentially useful....r
>

So "o tabetakunai desu yo" is Japanese for "...and the horse you rode in
on"?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Robert Bannister]

+1

[Robert Bannister]

On 28/08/2015 2:38 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Aug-28 11:14, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> You might prefer this charming snippet:
>>
>> Où est la très sage Heloïs,
>> Pour qui fut chastré et puis moyne
>> Pierre Esbaillart à Sainct-Denys?
>> Pour son amour eut cest essoyne.
>> Semblablement, où est la royne
>> Qui commanda que Buridan
>> Fust jetté en ung sac en Seine?
>> Mais où sont les neiges d'antan!
>
> That's from a slightly earlier era than the feather of my aunt.
>

She really should wear a bit more than that.

[David Kleinecke]

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 11:32:14 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> Anyway, thanks for that comment. I remember wondering why people were
> suddenly starting to say "Yo!" twenty or so years ago.

The standard way to answer roll call in 1945 - US Navy.

[Peter Moylan]

The hiragana were demolished several messages earlier in the thread.
Agent just delivered the final blow.

[Peter Moylan]

<like>

[Robin Bignall]

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 00:12:51 +1000, Peter Moylan

I see that, but once they've been quoted as ????s, Agent usually thinks
they are just question marks. I've never seen that error message
before.

[J. J. Lodder]

Goscinny is.
Renamimng everything English to Breton is part of the joke,

Jan

[Whiskers]

But it is more stylish than a stylo

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Robert Bannister]

It took me a long time to find out that the Bretons are not remnants of
the ancient Gauls at all, but immigrants from south-west Britain. No
wonder their language is so close to Cornish and Welsh.

[Jerry Friedman]

Maybe I learned the kids' version. The French Wikipedia says, "Dans la
version enfantine, /Les Lauriers/ de la première strophe sont parfois
remplacés par /Les Lilas/, la symbolique militaire des lauriers laissant
la place à l'image bucolique des fleurs de lilas."

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On 8/27/15 8:14 AM, James Hogg wrote:
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On 8/27/15 7:49 AM, James Hogg wrote:
>>> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>>>> On 08/26/2015 10:00 PM, Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> My memory may be incorrect,
>>>>>> but I think the whole sentence was:
>>>>>> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table".
>>>>>>
>>>>> Variant:
>>>>>
>>>>> "La plume de ma tante est sur la table de mon oncle."
>>>>
>>>> Non! Non! "La plume de ma tante est dans le jardin."
>>>
>>>
>>> "La plume de ma tante est dans le jardin de mon père" is one of the
>>> early forms that appeared in print.
>>
>> Attention: Danger de syndrome de mélodie fixe.
>

> Chanson-velcro is the term used in Québec, I believe

I like it.

--
Jerry Friedman

[R H Draney]

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:ms0cnh$dns$1
@news.albasani.net:

With no risk of offending the French-language purity police; "velcro" comes
from "velour crochet"....r

[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-4, Robert Bannister wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_plume_de_ma_tante_%28linguistics%29

>
> Life magazine said in 1958, "As every student knows, the most
> idiotically useless phrase in a beginner's French textbook is la plume
> de ma tante (the pen of my aunt)."

It could be an oath by a porcupine. (It's also "the quill of my aunt.")

[Jerry Friedman]

That was a good one.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mike L]

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 3:25:19 PM UTC+1, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 8/26/15 7:11 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 2015-Aug-27 01:06, Charles Hope wrote:
> >> In article <mrkk7o$en7$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> >> Don Phillipson <e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>> 'Asterix chez les Bretons' dates from 1965, it seems:
> >>> This is 15 years later than Ionesco's play La Cantatrice
> >>> Chauve (The Bald Soprano), suggested by the Assimil system
> >>> of programmed instruction in English. It begins with
> >>> English Mr. Smith reading his English newspaper
> >>> after his English breakfast, and so on.
> >>
> >> The title over here is "The Bald Prima Donna"
> >
> > I've heard that it was originally "L'Institutrice Blonde". I'm not sure
> > why it was changed.
>
> "L'idée de la pièce est venue à Ionesco lorsqu'il a essayé d'apprendre
> l'anglais par le biais de la méthode Assimil. Frappé par la teneur des
> dialogues, à la fois très sobres et étranges mais aussi par
> l'enchaînement de phrases sans rapport, il décide d'écrire une pièce
> absurde intitulée l'anglais sans peine. Mais ce titre ne plait pas au
> metteur en scène, celui-ci désire changer ce titre trop proche de
> L'Anglais tel qu'on le parle, de Tristan Bernard. Ce n'est qu'après un
> trou de mémoire, lors d'une répétition, que le titre de la pièce est
> fixé : le comédien qui jouait le pompier transforma « institutrice
> blonde » en « cantatrice chauve ». Ionesco, dans la salle, se lève d'un
> bond et s'écrit : C'est le titre !"
>
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cantatrice_chauve
>
> For those who want a translation:
>
> The idea of the play came to Ionesco when he tried to learn English by
> means of the Assimil method. Struck by the tenor of the dialogues, very
> sober and strange at the same time, and also by the sequence of
> unrelated sentences, he decided to write an absurd play called
> /L'Anglais sans peine/ [English Without Trouble]. But that title didn't
> please the director; he wanted to change that title that was too close
> to /L'Anglais tel qu'on le parle/ [English as it is Spoken], by Tristan
> Bernard. It was only after a lapse of memory during a rehearsal that
> the title of the play was settled: the actor playing the fireman
> transformed "institutrice blonde" into "cantatrice chauve". Ionesco, in
> the theater, jumped up and cried, "That's the title!"
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman

I hope I'm not repeating anything anybody else has contributed, but IIRC, there was an old teach-yourself booklet named "French Without Tears". Rattigan used the phrase as a title in (just looked it up) 1936, rather before Anouilh considered an anglais version. The pattern became commonplace, and was picked up by others: my father had a book called "Gaelic Without Groans".

The tailor thing may have originated in _Punch_: it has all the ring of Victorian humour, in which clothes and money were recurring themes. "Dash it, old man, how on earth can you afford all those smart clothes?" (I even have a memory, though it may be a false one, of seeing the original in an old copy of _Punch_.)

Have I said all this before in a.u.e.? Bells are ringing.

--
Mike.

[Robin Bignall]

Bells are ringing here because you're back and hopefully as fit as a
fiddle.

[Robert Bannister]

Four to the bar?

[snide...@gmail.com]

No doubt, but the Angles were still romping around the northern mainland
at the time of the Romans, no?

/dps

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, the Netherlands even, and from there to the north,
to Germany and Denmark.
There were some Anglos, Saxons etc. though in Roman times already.
Unlike their own romantic history of ferocious invasion and conquest
it appears from archeological evidence
that the first of them came as Roman mercenaries.

The rest were illegal immigrants, out on family reunion,
who came after the central authority collapsed.

Jan

PS Like the Bataves in the Netherlands, that the Dutch were proud of.
They too were imported Roman mercenaries, originally.

[J. J. Lodder]

What's the difference?
Those later immigrants are unlikely to have exterminated
or driven away all of the population that was there.
Those regions have 'always' been closely related.

Only large scale DNA analysis can tell more,

Jan

[CDB]

On 31/08/2015 2:54 PM, Mike L wrote:

> I hope I'm not repeating anything anybody else has contributed, but
> IIRC, there was an old teach-yourself booklet named "French Without
> Tears". Rattigan used the phrase as a title in (just looked it up)
> 1936, rather before Anouilh considered an anglais version. The
> pattern became commonplace, and was picked up by others: my father
> had a book called "Gaelic Without Groans".

I think that's what we had in the 1940s in Paris, but it was
hard-covered and came with a boxed set of 78 rpm records that I couldn't
lift when I was five. I can't find it in Google, but it started off
"La gravure représente un salon. La famille Durand est dans le salon."

> The tailor thing may have originated in _Punch_: it has all the ring
> of Victorian humour, in which clothes and money were recurring
> themes. "Dash it, old man, how on earth can you afford all those
> smart clothes?" (I even have a memory, though it may be a false one,
> of seeing the original in an old copy of _Punch_.)

That's what I was thinking. "Skint, old chap; haven't a penny. But my
damn tailor's rich as Croesus, haw haw."

> Have I said all this before in a.u.e.? Bells are ringing.

That would be the celebration.

[Robert Bannister]

From what I've read, and admittedly that was some time ago, there
weren't any Gauls left living there. Whether the Franks had driven them
out or whether they were so intermarried with Romans that they were
indistinguishable, I don't know.

[David Kleinecke]

From what I read Brittany was close to uninhabited when the Bretons
came over.

[Robert Bannister]

That sounds possible too.