Could have been the quote I was seeking
GrapeApe
certain if it is part of a larger piece of verse or not.
I am having no luck with online search engines given what I have to go on. The
quote I am trying to Identify goes a bit like this:
In best laid plans of mice and men
those fateful words bla "Could Have Been".
The germane part is the "could have been" section... I think I may be
cocatenating the "best laid plans" bit on to it because it happens to fit the
meter, not because it is part of the same quotation.
Also I don't know if the phrase is "could have been" or "should have been."
The point of the proverb is, one should not dwell on what 'could have been",
its a terribly depressing and usually fruitless practice, dammit.
Again the phrase goes a bit like this:
bla BLA bla bla bla BLA bla BLEN
bla BLA bla BLAbla "could have been"
Can anyone reading please give me the correct quote, and its source? Thanks.
Mike Oliver
> What I am seeking rhymes... a couplet in the snippet I am about to suggest, not
> certain if it is part of a larger piece of verse or not.
>
> I am having no luck with online search engines given what I have to go on. The
> quote I am trying to Identify goes a bit like this:
>
> In best laid plans of mice and men
> those fateful words bla "Could Have Been".
Something like this, maybe?
Of all the words of tongue or pen
The saddest are these, "It might have been"
May not be precise. Diane quoted it on Cheers after her friends
set her up to think her ballet audition had gone well and if
she had only started younger.... The deception works too well
and hilarity ensues.
Tony Cooper
>What I am seeking rhymes... a couplet in the snippet I am about to suggest, not
>certain if it is part of a larger piece of verse or not.
The "best laid plans" is, of course, Robbie Burns. But, I don't think
that's what you're looking for. A longshot, but:
It Might Have Been
by: Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850 - 1919)
We will be what we could be. Do not say,
"It might have been, had not this, or that, or this."
No fate can keep us from the chosen way;
He only might who is.
We will do what we could do. Do not dream
Chance leaves a hero, all uncrowned to grieve.
I hold, all men are greatly what they seem;
He does, who could achieve.
We will climb where we could climb. Tell me not
Of adverse storms that kept thee from the height.
What eagle ever missed the peak he sought?
He always climbs who might.
I do not like the phrase "It might have been!"
It lacks force, and life's best truths perverts:
For I believe we have, and reach, and win,
Whatever our deserts.
>Can anyone reading please give me the correct quote, and its source? Thanks.
--
Maybe it's not rocket science, but define your terms.
Tony Cooper aka tony_co...@yahoo.com
GrapeApe
> The saddest are these, "It might have been"
>
>May not be precise. Diane quoted it on Cheers
Oh --its from "Cheers" then. Isn't TV great? Thanks Cliffy, you always know
the score.
I could have sworn it was older... Oops said 'could have'! I might have
known.... Oops again.
Yeah, its like that, although I think the meter is off. I hate the way that
"are" just butts in there. Your guess may not be precise, but at least you are
getting warmer than I was.
I thought it was Kipling or Coleredge or some such.
Thanks. You gave enough clue-bage that I was able to whup up the following...
"For of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: 'It
might have been'."
- John Greenleaf Whittier.
Who he?
Tony Cooper
I'm whichoo. The first search I entered was Kipling +might have been.
I guess I was thinking of "If".
Now, who agrees that "pen" rhymes with "been"?
R H Draney
news:20021121233334...@mb-fd.aol.com:
> "For of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these:
> 'It might have been'."
>
> - John Greenleaf Whittier.
>
> Who he?
Just a good Friend....
“The sweetest words of pen, by heck,
Are simply these: “Enclosed find check”.
....r
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> "The sweetest words of pen, by heck,
> Are simply these: "Enclosed find check".
>
> ....r
Nice new .sig! No more confusing run-ons.
Such words so sweet, such words divine,
To hear her ask, "Your face or mine?"
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Occasional Erotic Poet
Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Laura F Spira
>
> On 22 Nov 2002 03:45:46 GMT, grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:
>
> >What I am seeking rhymes... a couplet in the snippet I am about to suggest, not
> >certain if it is part of a larger piece of verse or not.
>
> The "best laid plans" is, of course, Robbie Burns. But, I don't think
> that's what you're looking for. A longshot, but:
>
> It Might Have Been
> by: Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850 - 1919)
>
> We will be what we could be. Do not say,
> "It might have been, had not this, or that, or this."
> No fate can keep us from the chosen way;
> He only might who is.
> We will do what we could do. Do not dream
> Chance leaves a hero, all uncrowned to grieve.
> I hold, all men are greatly what they seem;
> He does, who could achieve.
>
> We will climb where we could climb. Tell me not
> Of adverse storms that kept thee from the height.
> What eagle ever missed the peak he sought?
> He always climbs who might.
>
> I do not like the phrase "It might have been!"
> It lacks force, and life's best truths perverts:
> For I believe we have, and reach, and win,
> Whatever our deserts.
Thanks, Tony, good to read EWW so early in the morning. (Was it George
who shared my fondness for her work? Where is George these days?)
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
N.Mitchum
----
> What I am seeking rhymes... a couplet in the snippet I am about to suggest, not
>
> In best laid plans of mice and men
> those fateful words bla "Could Have Been".
"For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: 'It might have been.'"
Whittier, *Maud Muller* (1856)
----NM
Mike Oliver
> The "best laid plans" is, of course, Robbie Burns. But, I don't think
> that's what you're looking for. A longshot, but:
>
> It Might Have Been
> by: Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850 - 1919)
I think you're ganging a little agley there.
rzed
"N.Mitchum" <aj...@lafn.org> wrote in message
news:3DDDE3...@lafn.org...
The whole thing is available at:
http://www.princeton.edu/~ampayne/maud_muller.html
--
rzed
Mike Lyle
> On 22 Nov 2002 03:45:46 GMT, grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:
>
> >What I am seeking rhymes... a couplet in the snippet I am about to suggest, not
> >certain if it is part of a larger piece of verse or not.
>
> The "best laid plans" is, of course, Robbie Burns.
best-laid plans of mice and men/ gang aft agley". Steinbeck liked it,
too.
> But, I don't think
> that's what you're looking for. A longshot, but:
>
> It Might Have Been
> by: Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850 - 1919)
[...]
> I do not like the phrase "It might have been!"
> It lacks force, and life's best truths perverts:
> For I believe we have, and reach, and win,
> Whatever our deserts.
>
Good old Ella! This is America!
The phrase seems to have caused a quotation stampede. Whittier
(1807-1892)kicked off in *Maud Muller*, a touching little bit of
Victorian sentimentality condemning class-consciousness:
"Then she took up her burden of life again,/
Saying only, 'It might have been.'"
...then later the familiar,
"For all sad words," etc.
Dante Gabriel Rossetti waded in with
"My name is "Might-have-been;/
I am also called No-more, Too-late, Farewell"
in *A Superscription*;
and was duly blown away by Bret Harte with
"If, of all sad words of tongue and pen,/
The saddest are, 'It might have been,'/
More sad are these we daily see:/
'It is, but hadn't ought to be!'"
in *Mrs Judge Jenkins*, a comment on the original.
Arthur Ransome's youngsters then added their bit by naming a place
"Camp Might-have-been"; this may have been in *Pigeon Post*, but I
don't know.
I've shot my bolt: for any more you'll have to wait for Ben.
Mike.
Simon R. Hughes
> Such words so sweet, such words divine,
> To hear her ask, "Your face or mine?"
>
> --
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Occasional Erotic Poet
> Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
What's the occasion?
--
Simon R. Hughes
<!-- this space for rent -->
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Now, who agrees that "pen" rhymes with "been"?
I'd guess someone who merges "pen" and "pin", which I believe is a
largely southern US thing. The OCEL says (p. 293, "Dialect in
America") says
Merger of vowels in _pin_ and _pen_, _since_ and _cents_ (to the
vowel of the first in each pair) is a Southern feature that is
spreading elsewhere.
Looking on the web, though, I find
John Greenleaf Whittier, the most outspoken abolitionist among the
poets of his generation, was born into a Quaker farming family in
Haverhill, Massachusetts, in 1807.
Just based on the spelling, then, I'd suspect that Whittier's dialect
in which they were both /En/ rather than both /In/, one in which
"been" had yet to move to /bIn/, but had reduced to /bEn/.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Never ascribe to malice that which
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can adequately be explained by
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stupidity.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
rzed
"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:lm3lxx...@hpl.hp.com...
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Now, who agrees that "pen" rhymes with "been"?
>
> I'd guess someone who merges "pen" and "pin", which I believe is a
> largely southern US thing. The OCEL says (p. 293, "Dialect in
> America") says
>
> Merger of vowels in _pin_ and _pen_, _since_ and _cents_ (to the
> vowel of the first in each pair) is a Southern feature that is
> spreading elsewhere.
>
> Looking on the web, though, I find
>
> John Greenleaf Whittier, the most outspoken abolitionist among
the
> poets of his generation, was born into a Quaker farming family
in
> Haverhill, Massachusetts, in 1807.
>
> Just based on the spelling, then, I'd suspect that Whittier's
dialect
> in which they were both /En/ rather than both /In/, one in which
> "been" had yet to move to /bIn/, but had reduced to /bEn/.
>
"Been" hasn't uniformly been moved to "bin" in my speech, either
(Wisconsin / Virginia). Until Tony's post, I had no idea it was a
question before the house. In the phrase "Ed's been around," I'd say
"ben," I believe, but in "it's been done," I'd tend toward "bin." I
wonder whether the preceding vowel influences the sound. "Been there,
done that" -- definitely "ben."
I wouldn't rhyme "been" with "bean" unless I was putting on an act.
--
rzed
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Thus Spake Reinhold (Rey) Aman:
> > Such words so sweet, such words divine,
> > To hear her ask, "Your face or mine?"
> >
> > --
> > Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> > Occasional Erotic Poet
> > Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
> > http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
> What's the occasion?
Don't ask.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Robert Lieblich
Laugh and the world laughs with you.
Weep and you weep alone.
She must have had something going for her -- Ambrose Bierce parodied
her mercilessly.
--
Bob Lieblich
M'Gonagall fan
Jerry Friedman
> > Of all the words of tongue or pen
> > The saddest are these, "It might have been"
> Thanks. You gave enough clue-bage that I was able to whup up the following...
>
> "For of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: 'It
> might have been'."
>
> - John Greenleaf Whittier.
>
> Who he?
Oh, dear. He's the man who wrote
Of all that Orient lands can vaunt,
Of marvels with our own competing,
The strangest is the Haschish plant,
And what will follow on its eating.
Some more famous quotations are:
Blessings on thee, little man,
Barefoot boy, with cheek of tan!
Also
"Shoot, if you must, this old gray head,
But spare your country's flag," she said.
No doubt a shade of sadness, a blush of shame, are coming over your
face for forgetting those lines. What did they make you read in
elementary school--Yeats? Auden? W. C. Williams? (Okay, I don't
think they made me read any Whittier in elementary school either. I
learned the cheek-of-tan one by not getting the punchline of a joke.)
And didn't one of our most disgraceful presidents go to Whittier
College?
--
Jerry Friedman
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Some more famous quotations are:
>
> Blessings on thee, little man,
> Barefoot boy, with cheek of tan!
Once upon a time, there was an old Chinese man who lived in an
even older shop in a back alley of San Francisco's
Chinatown. Mr. Chan (for that was the name by which he was known
to his neighbors) ran an Oriental novelty store. He stocked all of
the standard Far Eastern trinkets, such as paper kites shaped like
fish, cheap imitation silk kimonos, Japanese lanterns, chopsticks,
and so on, but both his heart and his profit were in his
collection of wooden figurines. Fortunate contacts, mostly
relatives in Taiwan, had given him access to the finest woods of
the Orient, and the most skilled carvers. His greatest treasures
were tiny statuettes, no bigger than your thumb, carved from teak
wood. These were totally unique to his establishment, for he had a
cousin who owned the finest stand of teak trees in Burma, and, his
greatest secret, a distant relative by marriage was a blind
sculpter who specialized in carving these miniatures. Mr. Chan's
statues had made him rather well known among connoisseurs of
Oriental curiosities, and provided him with a comfortable living.
Mr. Chan's life had continued undisturbed for years, and all
seemed most serene. Every day he would come down from his bedroom
above the shop, unlock the door, and wait for business. He would
sell a few cheap knicknacks to tourists, and, perhaps once a
month, a buyer would arrive to look over his collection of
statuettes. Such a special customer would receive Mr. Chan's full
attention, and they would talk for hours about the finer points of
Oriental carving. Usually the visit would end with a sale, and
Mr. Chan would retire happily to his bed.
One day, though, disaster struck. Mr. Chan came downstairs, and
discovered that his store had been vandalized! The door was ripped
right off of its hinges and lay 20 feet down the street. Paper
lanterns were ripped apart, coolie hats smashed to straw, and some
fine, delicate Japanese screens were riddled with holes. But worst
of all, the glass display case in which Mr. Chan kept his
figurines had been shattered, and all of the figurines were
stolen!
Mr. Chan, though momentarily shocked, was made of stern stuff. He
called the police at once, and consoled himself that, wise
businessman that he was, he was fully insured. While this was
meager compensation for the loss of his beloved statues, he hoped
that the police would be able to recover them. The police,
however, despite a painstaking search, could discover but one
clue: tiny, muddy, childlike footprints leading from the door to
the display case. The police suspected a youth gang, but could
find no further evidence.
Mr. Chan was forced to disappoint several of his regular customers
while waiting for the next shipment of statues from Taiwan, but
they finally arrived, and Mr. Chan was very excited, for these
were even finer than any he had previously received. He carefully
arranged them in his display case (he had, of course, replaced the
broken one), looked over them with pride, and retired for the
night, secure in the knowledge that his new burglar alarm system
would protect them.
In the middle of the night, Mr. Chan was jolted to consciousness
by the sudden blare of the alarm. He wrapped a robe around himself
and rushed downstairs, but too late! The display case was again
smashed, the statues gone, and a set of wet. muddy, miniscule
footprints lead out of the shattered door. Mr. Chan attempted to
give chase, but failed to catch the culprits. The police were
again unable to turn up any clues but the childlike footprints,
which seemed particularly incongruous in the face of the fact that
Mr. Chan's brand new steel reinforced door had been burst open
seemingly without effort.
Mr. Chan had lost confidence in San Francisco's finest. He
replaced the security precautions, making them even stronger, but
determined to take direct action. Thus, when the next shipment of
statuettes arrived some months later, delayed by a blight on the
Burmese teak groves and a typhoon in the China Sea, Mr. Chan had a
plan of action. He placed the figurines in the new display case
and concealed himself behind a curtain made of plastic beads, and
waited, ancient Chinese arquebus loaded and at the ready. Any
thief who dared to venture into his store tonight would be in for
a nasty surprise!
The hours passed. Mr. Chan, despite good intentions, dropped off
to sleep and the arquebus slipped off of his lap and slid behind a
large pile of Javanese sandals. Then, all of a sudden there was a
tremendous ripping noise, followed closely by the high pitched
scream of the burglar alarm! Mr. Chan leaped to his feet,
clutching for his weapon, but he could not find it! The lights,
activated by the alarm system, flashed on, revealing to Mr. Chan a
sight which made his blood freeze. Running quickly towards the
display case, in a crouch to get through the low door, was a
tremendous grizzly bear. Saliva dripped from its yellowed fangs
and Mr. Chan was almost overcome by the greasy stench of its
fur. Despite its huge size, the bear moved swiftly, almost
delicately...on little tiny feet no bigger than those of a ten
year old child. The bear reached the display case and, with a
single swipe of its fearsome paw, smashed the security glass. It
reached inside and rather clumsily gathered up all of the
figurines. Then, with an almost balletic move, it spun round on
its tiny feet and prepared to leave the store, no more than ten
seconds after it had entered.
Mr. Chan was momentarily unnerved by the sudden appearence of the
bear, but the courage of generations of Chinese warriors flowed in
his veins, brought to the fore by the desecration and theft of his
most prized possesions. Taking no head for his personal safety,
caring not at all that he was frail and unarmed, he leaped out
from behind the bed curtain and, in a voice so filled with outrage
that it even overcame the screaming sirens of the burglar alarm
system, shouted:
"Stop right where you are, boyfoot bear with teak of Chan!"
http://www.adult-stories.net/humour/humour-0029_sto.html
Sorry.
I think I first came across this in a Bullwinkle cartoon, although the
pun only went halfway, to "Barefoot boy with teak of Chan".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If I may digress momentarily from
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |the mainstream of this evening's
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |symposium, I'd like to sing a song
|which is completely pointless.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Tom Lehrer
(650)857-7572
R H Draney
> I think I first came across this in a Bullwinkle cartoon, although
> the pun only went halfway, to "Barefoot boy with teak of Chan".
The other half...Rocky was supposed to portray the barefoot boy, but
wore sneakers because the ground hurt his feet...when the shoes were
stolen by a bear brought in to provide rustic atmosphere, Bullwinkle
finished by dedicating the poem to the bear, now wearing Rocky's
shoes: "blessings on thee, boy-foot bear"....
Go ahead, ask me anything about Mr Peabody and Sherman....r
R J Valentine
} X-No-Archive: yes
} In article <hee9t6...@hpl.hp.com>, Evan Kirshenbaum
} <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> writes
}
} Mega snip!
}>
}> http://www.adult-stories.net/humour/humour-0029_sto.html
}>
}>Sorry.
}
} I should bloody well think so! For length and deviousness, that has to
} beat the Frank Muir and Dennis Norden convoluted and contrived
} mondegreens on BBC Radio 4's "My Word".
}
} Their worst offering was one based on the saying "Let your discretion be
} your tutor."
}
} Their story was about a castaway on a deserted island with a gramophone
} and eight records who got fed up with shouting and waving at passing
} ships so he built an enormous horn extension for his gramophone.
} When a ship came near, he'd play a record so that the sound boomed
} across the water. Thus: "Let your disk ration be your tooter". Yuck.
So the bird, hanging on with a wing and a prayer, looked over the edge of
the cliff and squawked just loud enough to be heard over the dump-truck
engine, "It's a long way to tip a rary."
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
(The linguistics professor, needles to say, was stunned.)
Mike Lyle
> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
> news:lm3lxx...@hpl.hp.com...
> > Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > > Now, who agrees that "pen" rhymes with "been"?
> >
> > Merger of vowels in _pin_ and _pen_, _since_ and _cents_ (to the
> > vowel of the first in each pair) is a Southern feature that is
> > spreading elsewhere.
> > Just based on the spelling, then, I'd suspect that Whittier's
> dialect
> > in which they were both /En/ rather than both /In/, one in which
> > "been" had yet to move to /bIn/, but had reduced to /bEn/.
I wouldn't necessarily get too aroused at the prospect of determining
Whittier's dialectal features from his prosody. A few examples of his
rhymes are here picked at random.
From *Maud Muller*: draught/quaffed, wrong/tongues, poor/door[twice],
again/been, and (for the Hell of it), whether/weather;
from *Telling the Bees*: warm/farm;
from *The Truce of Piscataqua*: Heaven/given;
and from *The Ranger*: spinning/linen, valley/Nelly, fail us/mellows,
Rob Rawlin/broiling, reason/face on, meadows/ladders, swarthy/worthy,
and (my personal favourite) high on/iron.
Nice bloke he was, by all available accounts; top-notch poetical
technician, perhaps less so.
Mike.
Peter Moylan
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In article <hee9t6...@hpl.hp.com>, Evan Kirshenbaum
><kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> writes
>
> Mega snip!
>>
>> http://www.adult-stories.net/humour/humour-0029_sto.html
>>
>>Sorry.
>
> I should bloody well think so! For length and deviousness, that has to
> beat the Frank Muir and Dennis Norden convoluted and contrived
> mondegreens on BBC Radio 4's "My Word".
>
> Their worst offering was one based on the saying "Let your discretion be
> your tutor."
No, no no no ... yes. Their very worst was the one about "It's a
long way to Tipperary."
Greatly missed.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au
Aaron J. Dinkin
> Tony Cooper <tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Now, who agrees that "pen" rhymes with "been"?
>
> I'd guess someone who merges "pen" and "pin", which I believe is a
> largely southern US thing.
Not only those. At least 25% of the respondents to Prof. Bert Vaux's
dialect survey <www.hcs.harvard.edu/~golder/dialect> seem to rhyme "pen"
and "been". The greatest concentration of these seems to be roughly in the
same general area as the Northern Cities Vowel Shift - in particular,
upstate New York, Michigan, and Wisconsin.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Pat Durkin
"Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:KdzF9.161920$NH2.11537@sccrnsc01...
Sorry I didn't get into this thread in time. (Shall I now invent
"intime"?). Being a lifelong Wisconsin resident (though having spent time
in the 3 zones that meet here), I must say that I rhyme "pen" with "been",
and never rhyme "pen" with "pin", nor do I hear such a rhyming pattern as
the "pen/pin" merging in my day-to-day conversations. Believe me, I had a
roommate from Missouri and I definitely have my ear peeled for that sound.
I don't know if Missourians (and others in that area) rhyme "been" with
"bin", however. To me that would be a real stretch, as if one were trying
to rhyme "been" with "bean", and falling a bit short. Still, I can't deny
that they might do the "been/bin" merge.
Jonathan Jordan
"Pat Durkin" <p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uudqua2...@corp.supernews.com...
pronunciation varies according to stress - if I stress the word I say
[bin], like "bean", whereas if I don't I'm more likely to say
something closer to [bIn], like "bin". I'd never say it like "Ben".
I remember a story about a misunderstanding involving a Yorkshire
child and a (presumably non-Yorkshire) teacher, which seems to involve
this as well as a thou/you confusion:
Teacher: Where's the bin?
Child: I've been here all the time.
Jonathan