Attorneys General

[Stian Oksavik]

In article <19961124011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
kev...@aol.com wrote:

> The plural form of "Attorney General," as we all know, is
> "Attorneys General." But what is the singular possessive form?
> The few times I have seen it in print, it has been written
> "Attorney General's," as in "the Attorney General's office."
>
> Now, if "Attorney" is the noun and "General" the adjective--as
> the usage "Attorneys General" would lead one to believe--it
> would seem logical to form the possessive by writing (or
> saying) "the Attorney's General office." And yet this looks,
> and sounds, all wrong.
>
> Anyone care to explain this one? (By the way, I assume that
> the same principle would apply to "Surgeon General," "Adjutant
> General," and so forth.)

Hmm...good point. And to take it even further, what if "attorney general"
was being used as a compound noun? Would that lead us to a plural form of
"attorney general's?"

Hmm....in my mind, that conjectures up images of very high-ranking
military officials who went to law school. ;-)

-Stian

[kev...@aol.com]

The plural form of "Attorney General," as we all know, is
"Attorneys General." But what is the singular possessive form?
The few times I have seen it in print, it has been written
"Attorney General's," as in "the Attorney General's office."

Now, if "Attorney" is the noun and "General" the adjective--as
the usage "Attorneys General" would lead one to believe--it
would seem logical to form the possessive by writing (or
saying) "the Attorney's General office." And yet this looks,
and sounds, all wrong.

Anyone care to explain this one? (By the way, I assume that
the same principle would apply to "Surgeon General," "Adjutant
General," and so forth.)

Kevin

[Avi Jacobson]

This seems to be that pattern in phrases where the adjective follows the
noun. The genitive of "someone else" is "someone else's". The genitive
of "poet laureate" ("laureate" is an adjective modifying "poet") is
"poet laureate's". The genitive of "body politic" is "body politic's"
("The book discusses the body politic's influence upon..."). The
genitive of "Mother Superior" is "Mother Superior's". The reason seems
pretty obvious: "The Mother's Superior dress" would easily be
misconstrued, as would "The Surgeon's General store", etc.

But what does "why" mean in this context? Noun + adjective + 's seems
to be the rule in such cases, and there seems to be little more to say.

--
Avi Jacobson, email: avi_...@netvision.net.il | When an idea is
Home Page (Israel): | wanting, a word
http://www.netvision.net.il/php/avi_jaco | can always be found
Mirror Home Page (U.S.): | to take its place.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4034 | -- Goethe

[Joseph C Fineman]

kev...@aol.com writes:

>Now, if "Attorney" is the noun and "General" the adjective--as
>the usage "Attorneys General" would lead one to believe--it
>would seem logical to form the possessive by writing (or
>saying) "the Attorney's General office." And yet this looks,
>and sounds, all wrong.

In modern English, "'s" of the possessive goes at the end of a noun
phrase, regardless of how much stuff comes after the head of it.
Jespersen gives the example "the king of England's power". So also
passer-by: plural, passers-by; possessive, passer-by's.

This rule is carried to a delightful extreme by Berryman & Berryman in
their spoof of country music:

'Cause the gal that you're cheatin' with's ridin'
In the guy that I'm cheatin' with's truck.

--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com

||: Sex is an impediment to reproduction whose function is to :||
||: complicate life. :||

[Paul Bogrow]

Hallucinations aside, has anyone but me heard, and more than once,
broadcasting aeroheads finish an interview with the Surgeon General with
"Thank you, General"?

Not kidding. They really think it's a military title. (It's the
uniform, isn't it?)

[Robert M. Wilson]

In article <84883718...@ts024p15.pop3b.netvision.net.il>,

Avi Jacobson <avi_...@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>kev...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> The plural form of "Attorney General," as we all know, is
>> "Attorneys General." But what is the singular possessive form?
>> The few times I have seen it in print, it has been written
>> "Attorney General's," as in "the Attorney General's office."

>> the same principle would apply to "Surgeon General," "Adjutant
>> General," and so forth.)

[snip]

>
>This seems to be that pattern in phrases where the adjective follows the
>noun. The genitive of "someone else" is "someone else's". The genitive
>of "poet laureate" ("laureate" is an adjective modifying "poet") is
>"poet laureate's". The genitive of "body politic" is "body politic's"
>("The book discusses the body politic's influence upon..."). The
>genitive of "Mother Superior" is "Mother Superior's". The reason seems
>pretty obvious: "The Mother's Superior dress" would easily be
>misconstrued, as would "The Surgeon's General store", etc.

And to complicate matters, the plural possessive is:

"the Mothers Superior's habits" and

"the Attorneys General's meeting".

[Gregory Resch]

If you mean the *U.S.* Surgeon General, I think:

(a) Your post must have taken almost a year to reach me, inasmuch as
there hasn't been a Surgeon General in that time, Joycelyn Elders having
"resigned" about that long ago.

(b) You therefore actually mean the Attorney General, Janet Reno, who has
been so addressed several times that I've witnessed. When I heard it
first used, in a broadcast interview of Reno, I thought it was an insult,
many of the questions having dealt with the FBI riots at Waco and Ruby
Ridge. However, neither Reno nor others in earshot even blinked, so I
concluded that it must have become something of an "in" word among her
fans.

(c) It's ludicrous.

--

[Raymot]

In article <84883718...@ts024p15.pop3b.netvision.net.il>,
avi_...@netvision.net.il says...

>
>kev...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> The plural form of "Attorney General," as we all know, is
>> "Attorneys General." But what is the singular possessive form?
>> The few times I have seen it in print, it has been written
>> "Attorney General's," as in "the Attorney General's office."
>>

>> Now, if "Attorney" is the noun and "General" the adjective--as
>> the usage "Attorneys General" would lead one to believe--it
>> would seem logical to form the possessive by writing (or
>> saying) "the Attorney's General office." And yet this looks,
>> and sounds, all wrong.
>>

>> Anyone care to explain this one? (By the way, I assume that

>> the same principle would apply to "Surgeon General," "Adjutant
>> General," and so forth.)
>

>This seems to be that pattern in phrases where the adjective follows the
>noun. The genitive of "someone else" is "someone else's". The genitive
>of "poet laureate" ("laureate" is an adjective modifying "poet") is
>"poet laureate's". The genitive of "body politic" is "body politic's"
>("The book discusses the body politic's influence upon..."). The
>genitive of "Mother Superior" is "Mother Superior's". The reason seems
>pretty obvious: "The Mother's Superior dress" would easily be
>misconstrued, as would "The Surgeon's General store", etc.
>

>But what does "why" mean in this context? Noun + adjective + 's seems
>to be the rule in such cases, and there seems to be little more to say.
>
>--
>Avi Jacobson, email: avi_...@netvision.net.il | When an idea is

One could postulate that these constructions are derivative from
the latin languages in which the possessive is not formed by
adding "s". For example, in such languages, the Attorney General's
office would be called the office of the Attorney General.

Eg. in French: procureur generale, procureurs generales (pl),
le bureau du procureur generale; les bureaux des procureurs
generales (pl). (Also "procureuse generale" (f) etc!)
Of course, the clever Germans compound their words--Attorney
General = Generalbundesanwalt. So both plural and possessive
is Generalbundesanwalts.

The problem seems to be that English straddles these two
systems, and in this case ends up with one leg on each side of
the proverbial barbed-wire fence.

Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[

[Raymot]

In article <57at45$s...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, eey...@eey.org says...

>
>Hallucinations aside, has anyone but me heard, and more than once,
>broadcasting aeroheads finish an interview with the Surgeon General with
>"Thank you, General"?
>
>Not kidding. They really think it's a military title. (It's the
>uniform, isn't it?)

Isn't it the Surgeon General who orders the surgical strikes?
He's the person who organises his theatre of influence with
military precision while marshalling his men for an attack
upon the right flank.

Raymot
[[[[[[[[[[[[[