Asshat

[occam]

Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English language, I
bring you 'Asshat'.

“a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>

I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the word.
However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so as not to
diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in collector circles.)

[spains...@gmail.com]

Defined by the Merriam-Webster (junior puerile childishness) dictionary as:

"It takes one to know one".

cf "He who smelt it dealt it".

[Ken Blake]

On Sat, 14 May 2022 17:17:51 +0200, occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>
>Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English language, I
>bring you 'Asshat'.
>
>“a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”
>
><https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>
>
>I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the word.

There are a few here in this newsgroup. I have them all killfiled,
with one exception: someone who sometimes makes valuable posts (but
who may soon get killfiled anyway).

>However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so as not to
>diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in collector circles.)

I've never used it and it's unlikely that I ever will.

[Sam Plusnet]

AmE, but I think it has been around for quite some time.
Evidently one person's neologism is another's old hat.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Ross Clark]

Mentioned (and often used) in both a.u.e and sci.lang since about 2006.
Green treats it as a variant of "ass-head", which is centuries old, but
has only one actual citation of "asshat" (as (probably US) "campus
slang", 2003). OED 2002, 2015. Note that in the old form "ass" referred
to the quadruped, not the body part. If the US term is related, there
has been a semantic reinterpretation.

[lar3ryca]

I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would not
think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.

[Peter Moylan]

A more potent version has a space in it: as shat.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Paul Carmichael]

El Sat, 14 May 2022 21:16:01 -0600, lar3ryca escribió:

> I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would not
> think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.

S'funny. Takes my mind straight to Midsummer Night's Dream. But ironic
that the name of the ass is Bottom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Midsummer_Night%27s_Dream#/media/
File:Augustins_-_La_Folie_de_Titania_-
_Paul_Jean_Gervais_1897_2004_1_188.jpg


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Madhu]

* Ross Clark <t5pi8v$dqp$1 @dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 12:42:01 +1200:

> On 15/05/2022 7:08 a.m., Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> AmE, but I think it has been around for quite some time.
>> Evidently one person's neologism is another's old hat.
> Mentioned (and often used) in both a.u.e and sci.lang since about 2006.

On aue I think you could filter out a large chunk of Lewis'
republican-rant posts using the keyword "asshat"

[CDB]

On 5/14/2022 11:51 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> occam wrote:

>> Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English
>> language, I bring you 'Asshat'.

>> “a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”

>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>
>> I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the
>> word. However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so as
>> not to diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in
>> collector circles.)

> A more potent version has a space in it: as shat.

On a slightly related note, I was watching an episode of _Capitaine
Marleau_, a French gendarmerie-procedural, the other day, and noticed
someone using the expression "votre image tout craché", lending a little
more weight to the idea that our expression should probably be "spitten
image".

[occam]

On 15/05/2022 11:42, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Sat, 14 May 2022 21:16:01 -0600, lar3ryca escribió:
>
>> I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would not
>> think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.
>
>
> S'funny. Takes my mind straight to Midsummer Night's Dream. But ironic
> that the name of the ass is Bottom.
>

Is it irony if the ass is intentionally named 'Bottom' by Shakespeare?

[Peter Moylan]

On 15/05/22 21:27, CDB wrote:
>
> On a slightly related note, I was watching an episode of _Capitaine
> Marleau_, a French gendarmerie-procedural, the other day, and
> noticed someone using the expression "votre image tout craché",
> lending a little more weight to the idea that our expression should
> probably be "spitten image".

I've met that in French more than once.

It used to be my contention that the English version is and always was
"spitten image", and that "spitting image" derives from a mishearing of
the original. It seems that I was wrong, though, because other sources
say that "spit and image" was the original, and "spitten image" came
later. (And "spitting image" even later.)

This site
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/spitting-image.html
has a quote from a 1689 play: "Poor child! he's as like his own dadda as
if he were spit out of his mouth."

The same site gives a Norwegian version, som snytt ut av nesen paa, but
that refers to nasal mucus.

[Peter T. Daniels]

And Palm Sunday. "A colt, the foal of an ass."

[lar3ryca]

As usual, I can noodle out the meaning of the Norwegian words a lot
more easily than French words, and I don't know any Norwegian at all.

Here's a little ditty the young kids like.

When you're kissin' with your honey,
And your nose is kinda runny,
And you think it's kinda funny,
Well it's snot!

--
The past tense of William Shakespeare is Wouldiwas Shookspeared.

[Madhu]

* lar3ryca <t5r0vg$dpi$1 @dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 07:59:11 -0600:

What's the connection between Richard Stallman and Marquis de Sade

[Paul Carmichael]

Do you think that he named his characters after writing the play?


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2022-05-15 11:27:52 +0000, CDB said:

> On 5/14/2022 11:51 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> occam wrote:
>
>>> Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English
>>> language, I bring you 'Asshat'.
>
>>> “a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”
>
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>
>>>
>>> I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the
>>> word. However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so as
>>> not to diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in
>>> collector circles.)
>
>> A more potent version has a space in it: as shat.
>
> On a slightly related note, I was watching an episode of _Capitaine
> Marleau_, a French gendarmerie-procedural,

We find it almost unwatchable. It's one thing to have the main
detective look a bit unconventional, but it's another to take it to an
extreme.

> the other day, and noticed
> someone using the expression "votre image tout craché", lending a little
> more weight to the idea that our expression should probably be "spitten
> image".

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

[Ken Blake]

Whether I would or not depends entirely on the context of the sentence
it's used in. The same is probably true of 99% of Americans and
Canadians.

Shove it up your ass.

There was an ass in the stable along with the horses.

[Ken Blake]

Or, from "Iphegenia in Brooklyn," by PDQ Bach:

...
Only he who is running knows.

Run, running nose
...

[lar3ryca]

While that is true, how often do you suppose an American or Canadian
would say that, as opposed to "There was a donkey in the stable...".

[Ken Blake]

Seldom. Nevertheless "ass" would be correctly understood by almost
everyone, and that was my point.

[lar3ryca]

Property is theft.

[lar3ryca]

Does your nose run?
Do your feet smell?
Perhaps you are built upside-down.

[lar3ryca]

Again true, but (and I can only speak for myself) that sentence would
cause me some delay in trying to figure out which definition the speaker
meant, as I never call the animal an ass, and for all I know, there may
well have been an undesirable person in the stable.

[Madhu]

* lar3ryca <t5radq$kfb$1...@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 10:40:24 -0600:

[i wanted to phrase that as: "what is .." jeapordy style]

> Property is theft.

https://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&as_q=%22rms%22%20%22nasal%20sex%22

https://archive.org/stream/SartreJeanPaulLiteraryAndPhilosophicalEssaysCollier1962/Marquis_de_Sade_-_120_Days_of_Sodom_Other_Writings_djvu.txt
C-f search "and with such cleverness"

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-05-15 10:52, Madhu wrote:
>
> * lar3ryca <t5radq$kfb$1...@dont-email.me> :
> Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 10:40:24 -0600:
>> On 2022-05-15 08:07, Madhu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here's a little ditty the young kids like.
>>>>
>>>> When you're kissin' with your honey,
>>>> And your nose is kinda runny,
>>>> And you think it's kinda funny,
>>>> Well it's snot!
>>> What's the connection between Richard Stallman and Marquis de Sade
> [i wanted to phrase that as: "what is .." jeapordy style]

In Jeopardy, the answer is the question, so the clue would be
'Nasal Sex", right?

>> Property is theft.
>
> https://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&as_q=%22rms%22%20%22nasal%20sex%22
>
> https://archive.org/stream/SartreJeanPaulLiteraryAndPhilosophicalEssaysCollier1962/Marquis_de_Sade_-_120_Days_of_Sodom_Other_Writings_djvu.txt
> C-f search "and with such cleverness"

Not sure that M de S wrote that. Didn't bother to wade through all that
crap.

[Lewis]

In message <5apv7h9273gojr775...@4ax.com> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2022 17:17:51 +0200, occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>>
>>Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English language, I
>>bring you 'Asshat'.

That must be a very strange definition of 'new' as I first heard it in
1980, possibly 1981. I have a very clear memory of who said it, who it
was said about, and where I was at the time ( Eric Bm Ms Crawford, 7th
grade Social Studies), but I cannot narrow that date down more than
saying it was sometime in the fall of 1980 or the spring of 1981.

--
At night when the bars close down
Brandy walks through a silent town
And loves a man who's not around

[Lewis]

In message <pan$d74ca$e0ae4948$8f8548c1$bba0...@gmail.com> Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
> El Sat, 14 May 2022 21:16:01 -0600, lar3ryca escribió:

>> I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would not
>> think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.


> S'funny. Takes my mind straight to Midsummer Night's Dream. But ironic
> that the name of the ass is Bottom.

Such a strange unintentional coincidence! It's amazing!

#SMH


--
When and where does this "real world" occur?!

[occam]

What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?

[Paul Carmichael]

El Sun, 15 May 2022 23:50:59 +0000, Lewis escribió:

> In message <pan$d74ca$e0ae4948$8f8548c1$bba0...@gmail.com> Paul
> Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> El Sat, 14 May 2022 21:16:01 -0600, lar3ryca escribió:
>
>>> I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would
>>> not think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.
>
>
>> S'funny. Takes my mind straight to Midsummer Night's Dream. But ironic
>> that the name of the ass is Bottom.
>
> Such a strange unintentional coincidence! It's amazing!

I didn't realise that Shaky was American. Oh, and that he named the
characters after writing the play. How silly of me!


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[CDB]

On 5/15/2022 10:53 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> CDB said:
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> occam wrote:

>>>> Ever in search of new and interesting words in the English
>>>> language, I bring you 'Asshat'.

>>>> “a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”

>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>
>>>>
>>>>
I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the
>>>> word. However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so
>>>> as not to diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in
>>>> collector circles.)

>>> A more potent version has a space in it: as shat.

>> On a slightly related note, I was watching an episode of _Capitaine
>> Marleau_, a French gendarmerie-procedural,

> We find it almost unwatchable. It's one thing to have the main
> detective look a bit unconventional, but it's another to take it to
> an extreme.

You are probably already familiar with French slang; I find the dialogue
instructive.

They have made la capitaine somewhat more approachable in the
season I am watching at the moment.

[Quinn C]

* lar3ryca:

> On 2022-05-14 18:42, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 7:08 a.m., Sam Plusnet wrote:

>>> On 14-May-22 16:17, occam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ever in search of new and interesting  words in the English language, I
>>>> bring you 'Asshat'.
>>>>
>>>> “a stupid, annoying, or detestable person”
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/some-notes-on-asshat-word-history>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know you probably all have several candidates worthy of the word.
>>>> However I urge you to use it carefully and sparingly so as not to
>>>> diminish its potency. (It's a keeper, as they say in collector circles.)
>>>

>>> AmE, but I think it has been around for quite some time.
>>> Evidently one person's neologism is another's old hat.
>>>
>>
>> Mentioned (and often used) in both a.u.e and sci.lang since about 2006.
>> Green treats it as a variant of "ass-head", which is centuries old, but
>> has only one actual citation of "asshat" (as (probably US) "campus
>> slang", 2003). OED 2002, 2015. Note that in the old form "ass" referred
>> to the quadruped, not the body part. If the US term is related, there
>> has been a semantic reinterpretation.
>

> I would be willing to bet that 99% of Americans and Canadians would not
> think of a donkey when they hear the word 'ass'.

How is it understood in "When you assume, you make an ass of u and me"?

--
The trouble some people have being German, I thought,
I have being human.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.130

[lar3ryca]

No idea. Is that a real commandment?

An informal survey I did today yielded opinions from 3 folks. All said
they would not think of a donkey unless the context was very obvious. A
brother-in-law said that if he heard someone say, while pointing to a
donkey, and saying "that's a really small ass', he would be as likely to
answer "That's a pretty normal looking ass on the donkey", as anything else.

They all agreed they had heard someone use the word ass when referring
to a donkey, but that it was seldom, and unusual.

[lar3ryca]

Never thought about it. It's just a cutesy way of saying "don't make
assumptions".

[Tony Cooper]

The understood meaning of "Don't be an ass" is:

https://photos.smugmug.com/ANIMALS/i-xXhSSST/0/dcae4050/X3/2009-04-30-1-X3.jpg

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[Snidely]

lar3ryca blurted out:

Onager in a million.

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

[Snidely]

on 5/16/2022, lar3ryca supposed :

One minidonk, two minidonk, three minidonk, more.

> They all agreed they had heard someone use the word ass when referring to a
> donkey, but that it was seldom, and unusual.

[Yeah, the usual plural is minidonks]

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

[Snidely]

Quinn C explained :

Either way, but even those who think about a donkey in that context
would also think about "silly" or "stubborn", or maybe "stupid".

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Peter Moylan]

A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
was - expressed it a little differently:

<quote>
A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
you are supposed to know the difference.
</quote>

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Quinn C]

* Snidely:

I've always, well, assumed it was an accusation of being silly rather
than being mean, therefore a reference to the equid.

--
I hate the space-time continuum!
-- Dreamer, Supergirl S06E18

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:

> > What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> > Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
>
> No idea. Is that a real commandment?

lmgtfy.

No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.

Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
with the Decalogue.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Imagine no possessions.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Ken Blake]

Seldom and unusual, yes. But I still disagree that "99% of Americans

and Canadians would not think of a donkey when they hear the word

'ass'." Again, it depends on the context. Also regardless of context,
I think 99% is way too high a percentage.

And by the way, if I heard someone say "I saw an ass walking down the
street," I would think of a donkey, not a person he was disparaging.
If I want to disparage someone, I'd be much more likely to call him a
"jackass" rather than an "ass."

[Ken Blake]

A "burro" is also a kind of Mexican food, although it's more commonly
called a "burrito."

And in Italian, burro," is the word for "butter."

[Ken Blake]

It's a very common saying, but one I completely disagree with. Nobody
can avoid making assumptions. We all make them all the time. Everyone
makes assumptions every second. Some assumptions are good to make,
others are bad.

[Jerry Friedman]

I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier version, from 1975.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:41:52 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

...or an "asshole."


> rather than an "ass."

[lar3ryca]

Imagine no PtD (Peter the Donkey).

I won't look it up because I don't give a rat's ass.

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

Imagine someone not familiar with irony.

It's clear that it's not a real commandment because the neighbor is a
she. For the writers of the Bible, a woman couldn't be a neighbor in her
own right, only a neighbor's wife.

--
Just because we had a thing for 150 years, don't presume that
you know me.
-- Darla, Angel S02E09

[Ruud Harmsen]

Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"

<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>with the Decalogue.

I know them since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
meaning.
Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
The Ten Commandments.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:

> >>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> > lmgtfy.
> > No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> > Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> > with the Decalogue.
>
> Imagine someone not familiar with irony.

You're not really suggesting that lar3 is capable of irony, are you?

> It's clear that it's not a real commandment because the neighbor is a
> she. For the writers of the Bible, a woman couldn't be a neighbor in her
> own right, only a neighbor's wife.

KJV. Exod 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his
ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

(Roman Catholics think that's two commandments, so that they can
ignore the "graven images" one by conjoining it to the one before it.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:30:44 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 09:19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:

> >>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> >> lmgtfy.
> >> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> >> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >> with the Decalogue.
> > Imagine no possessions.

The the Tenth Commandment applies vacuously.

> Imagine no PtD (Peter the Donkey).
>
> I won't look it up because I don't give a rat's ass.

Uh-oh, we must have a Fake Lar3 to go with Fake Blake, who
asked plaintively, "Is that a real commandment?"

[occam]

Jerry, welcome back!

[Snidely]

On Tuesday, occam exclaimed wildly:

My thoughts exactly!

/dps "Let's not scare him away"

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:30:40 -0600
lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-17 09:19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
> >>
> >>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >>>
> >>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> >>
> >> lmgtfy.
> >>
> >> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> >>
> >> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >> with the Decalogue.
> >
> > Imagine no possessions.

It's easy if you try.

>
> Imagine no PtD (Peter the Donkey).
>
> I won't look it up because I don't give a rat's ass.
>
>

In the UK we are "blessed" by a presenter duo called 'Ant and Dec'. I don't think there's an Antalogue, and a Catalogue is something else. A Monologue is just one long commandment?

[lar3ryca]

The last time I read the ten commandments was probably in the early 50s,
probably a short time before I stopped going to 'Sunday School' and/or
church.

From that faded memory, I seem to recall that it was something like
'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife', and though I could be
wrong, I really don't care.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:11:08 PM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, occam exclaimed wildly:
> > On 17/05/2022 18:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:

...

> >>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
> >>> was - expressed it a little differently:
> >>>
> >>> <quote>
> >>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
> >>> you are supposed to know the difference.
> >>> </quote>
> >>
> >> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier
> >> version, from 1975.
> >>
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
> >>
> >
> > Jerry, welcome back!

> My thoughts exactly!

Thank you both! It's good to be back.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ken Blake]

Welcome back from me, too.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >with the Decalogue.

> I know them

"I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
point for speakers of many languages.

> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> meaning.
> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> The Ten Commandments.

This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
"dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
up into ten sayings or commandments.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>>Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>>with the Decalogue.
>
>> I know them
>
> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
> point for speakers of many languages.
>
>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>> Dekalog.

It's rarely used in German as well.

>> I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>> meaning.
>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>> The Ten Commandments.
>
> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
> for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment.

Really?

> Wikipedia
> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> up into ten sayings or commandments.

Ah ... as we can see there, every other tradition merges this with "Thou
shalt have no other gods before me" or doesn't count it as part of the
set at all.

Talk in the form of "the 6th commandment" was pretty common when I was
young. I didn't know that this could mean something different to a
different group of people.

--
Some of the most horrific things ever done to humans
were done by the politest, best-dressed, most well-spoken
people from the very best homes and neighborhoods.
-- Jerry Springer

[Quinn C]

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
>
>>>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
>>>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
>>>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
>>> lmgtfy.
>>> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>> with the Decalogue.
>>
>> Imagine someone not familiar with irony.
>
> You're not really suggesting that lar3 is capable of irony, are you?
>
>> It's clear that it's not a real commandment because the neighbor is a
>> she. For the writers of the Bible, a woman couldn't be a neighbor in her
>> own right, only a neighbor's wife.
>
> KJV. Exod 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
> covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his
> ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

I see. I considered myself "familiar with the ten commandments", but
couldn't have told you a donkey was in this one, so maybe by your
standards, I fail that test, too. As would 90% of my son's generation, I
expect.

--
If men got pregnant, you could get an abortion at an ATM.
-- Selina Mayer, VEEP

[Peter Moylan]

Thanks. It's hard to remember all the detail from back then.

I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.
That's getting a little further from the original intent of DejaNews.

Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

[Ruud Harmsen]

Tue, 17 May 2022 13:39:08 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> scribeva:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>> >with the Decalogue.
>
>> I know them
>
>"I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
>point for speakers of many languages.
>
>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>> meaning.
>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>> The Ten Commandments.
>
>This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
>ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
>Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint

>for that verse has ???? ???? ??????, tous deka logous, and the OED says

>"dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
>is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
>tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
>up into ten sayings or commandments.

Bullets weren't invented yet back then. Pity.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Wed, 18 May 2022 11:57:04 +1000: Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:

>I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.
>That's getting a little further from the original intent of DejaNews.
>
>Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
>from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

It has. But it warns anyway. Just to be on the safe side.

[Quinn C]

* Peter Moylan:

> On 18/05/22 02:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier version, from 1975.
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
>
> Thanks. It's hard to remember all the detail from back then.
>
> I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.

It's confusing - sometimes it does, sometimes not.

> Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
> from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

I get lots of those from other sites, too. I think in most cases it's
based on them not recognizing your browser (cookies and other hints they
use to personalize their offers.) Similar to when you're asked to prove
you're not a robot - it's a hint that they don't know enough about you
from your browser, which I see as a positive.

--
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that
good men do nothing.
-- Edmund Burke

[Anders D. Nygaard]

How very American of you. But I believe they had to invent the firearm
first.

/Anders, Denmark

[Peter T. Daniels]

The first one is

KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
gods before me.

That's certainly a commandment!

#2 is graven images, #3 is swearing, #4 is the Sabbath, #5 is father and
mother, and ##6-10 are the earthly sins (murder, adultery, theft, lying,
coveting).

[Jerry Friedman]

Well, half of it is.

No doubt you've now seen at Wikipedia or elsewhere how the Jewish
(Talmudic) numbering goes.

> #2 is graven images, #3 is swearing, #4 is the Sabbath, #5 is father and
> mother, and ##6-10 are the earthly sins (murder, adultery, theft, lying,
> coveting).

That's what Wikipedia calls the Reformed Christian numbering, also in the
Anglican prayerbook.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Snidely]

On Wednesday, Anders D. Nygaard exclaimed wildly:

But they knew about little circles and stars, so changing the CSS
shouldn't be too difficult.

/dps

--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?

[Sam Plusnet]

A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in a
house of bondage in the first place!

That book should have been banned long ago.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.

(PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

[Peter Moylan]

He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
than carrying around two heavy stones.

> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
rate is.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 20:26:04 +1000
Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 20/05/22 17:58, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

[Hebrews 1 Canaanites 0]

> >
> > That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> > personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.
>
> He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
> than carrying around two heavy stones.
>
> > (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> > forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
>
> Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
> rate is.

I dunno, but I've made it work using
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Pair_of_rods
(plus a pair of biro outers)

It could be I'm fooling myself.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:26:11 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/05/22 17:58, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 May 2022 01:31:14 +0100 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >> On 19-May-22 23:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels
> >>> wrote:

> >>>> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee
> >>>> out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou
> >>>> shalt have no other gods before me.
> >>>> That's certainly a commandment!
> >>> Well, half of it is.

Several of the others take up several verses, too.

> >> A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in
> >> a house of bondage in the first place!
> >> That book should have been banned long ago.
> > That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> > personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.
>
> He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
> than carrying around two heavy stones.

You needn't believe Gustave Doré or Cecil B. DeMille. The whole Decalogue
-- and the whole Holiness Code, for that matter -- could have been inscribed
on a couple of pocket-size cuneiform tablets.

I once did a popular talk (for an "archeology club" of senior citizens, in
a dining room over a Chinese restaurant on the Upper West Side) on
what the Ten Commandments might have actually looked like. It was
before PowerPoint, so I did a paper handout with a variety of images,
starting with a temple in Yonkers whose facade is in the traditional
"two stone tablets with arched top" shape, with ten Hebrew letters
in two columns.

[CDB]

On 5/20/2022 3:58 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:

A cat's staff can do that, AFAIK.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 6:05:12 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:39:10 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> > > As PTD said, the first one
> > > is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
> > > tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> > > up into ten sayings or commandments.
> > The first one is
> >
> > KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
> > land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
> > gods before me.
> >
> > That's certainly a commandment!
>
> Well, half of it is.
>
> No doubt you've now seen at Wikipedia or elsewhere how the Jewish
> (Talmudic) numbering goes.

Um, the Old Law was superseded by the New Law? (Saul/Paul somewhere)

> > #2 is graven images, #3 is swearing, #4 is the Sabbath, #5 is father and
> > mother, and ##6-10 are the earthly sins (murder, adultery, theft, lying,
> > coveting).
>
> That's what Wikipedia calls the Reformed Christian numbering, also in the
> Anglican prayerbook.

The point being that Catholics love their graven images, so they fold
#2 into #1 and have to divide #10 somehow to get two out of it..

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-6, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
...

> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring forth. No?

Some of us would. No measurable precipitation here since March 23.

> I'm going back to graven images then).

A serious comment.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:31:03 AM UTC-6, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2022 20:26:04 +1000
> Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

...

> > Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
> > rate is.

> I dunno, but I've made it work using
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Pair_of_rods
> (plus a pair of biro outers)

The cap or the plastic casing of a Bic pen?

> It could be I'm fooling myself.

If you dig anywhere in Britain, don't you hit water pretty soon?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT)
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 5:31:03 AM UTC-6, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 May 2022 20:26:04 +1000
> > Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> ...
>
> > > Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
> > > rate is.
>
> > I dunno, but I've made it work using
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Pair_of_rods
> > (plus a pair of biro outers)
>
> The cap or the plastic casing of a Bic pen?

Well, the casing to allow the coathan^w wires to rotate.

>
> > It could be I'm fooling myself.
>
> If you dig anywhere in Britain, don't you hit water pretty soon?
>

You're likely to hit rock. But we were just looking for buried pipes.
> --
> Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

Finding water in South Wales is not a challenge.

Finding a spot where I can dig a planting hole for a shrub, where I
don't hit the water table six inches down - now that would be a handy skill.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Quinn C]

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

I don't dare defy the commandments outright, so I only have some vague
craven images. Is that ok?

--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It's a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 3:38:21 PM UTC-7, Quinn C wrote:
> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
> > (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> > forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
> I don't dare defy the commandments outright, so I only have some vague
> craven images. Is that ok?
>

Yes, but no raven images. Nevermore.

bill

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 18:38:13 -0400
Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
> > (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> > forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
>
> I don't dare defy the commandments outright, so I only have some vague
> craven images. Is that ok?
>

I think "Lustful thoughts" comes under "sins of the flesh", but IANAGB.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

"No Corvids where harmed in the making of this picture"

[Madhu]

* "Kerr-Mudd, John" <20220520163713.332c7802bcdfa13f29adc072 @127.0.0.1> :
Wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 16:37:13 +0100:

I've heard accounts of it working in Wales, not by engaging water
diviners, but by the DIY skeptics who decided to try finding water/pipes
after others failed.

[Madhu]

* "Peter T. Daniels" <599d8f23-7c2b-4d9a-a60c-bf8c546a5aa8n @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 06:39:55 -0700 (PDT):

>
> You needn't believe Gustave Doré or Cecil B. DeMille. The whole Decalogue
> -- and the whole Holiness Code, for that matter -- could have been inscribed
> on a couple of pocket-size cuneiform tablets.
>
> I once did a popular talk (for an "archeology club" of senior
> citizens, in a dining room over a Chinese restaurant on the Upper West
> Side) on what the Ten Commandments might have actually looked like. It
> was before PowerPoint, so I did a paper handout with a variety of
> images, starting with a temple in Yonkers whose facade is in the
> traditional "two stone tablets with arched top" shape, with ten Hebrew
> letters in two columns.

So you said they were 2 copies of 10 commandments and not 5 commandments
on each

Remember - the first sets were written on both sides.

32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables
of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their
sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the
writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Moses broke (brake) those, but he made the second set on the same
pattern

34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like
unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were
in the first tables, which thou brakest.

[lar3ryca]

Sometime in the early stages of the current pandemic, one of the newsies
on TV referred to it as 'Corvid-19".

--
John bought the cups that Daniel had been looking for for him.

[Peter Moylan]

We also called it "mad crow disease".

[Quinn C]

* lar3ryca:

That brings up memories. One biology course had that kind of project
where you rase a chick, so those chicks turned up in other classrooms.
My Latin teacher (and director of the school) wasn't amused: "I don't
want to catch parrot fever!" It's not just a colorful expression -
chicken can in fact carry parrot fever, and humans can catch it and get
quite sick.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 9:43:49 AM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
> * "Peter T. Daniels" <599d8f23-7c2b-4d9a-a60c-bf8c546a5aa8n @googlegroups.com> :
> Wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 06:39:55 -0700 (PDT):

> > You needn't believe Gustave Doré or Cecil B. DeMille. The whole Decalogue
> > -- and the whole Holiness Code, for that matter -- could have been inscribed
> > on a couple of pocket-size cuneiform tablets.
> > I once did a popular talk (for an "archeology club" of senior
> > citizens, in a dining room over a Chinese restaurant on the Upper West
> > Side) on what the Ten Commandments might have actually looked like. It
> > was before PowerPoint, so I did a paper handout with a variety of
> > images, starting with a temple in Yonkers whose facade is in the
> > traditional "two stone tablets with arched top" shape, with ten Hebrew
> > letters in two columns.
>
> So you said they were 2 copies of 10 commandments and not 5 commandments
> on each

Hunh?

> Remember - the first sets were written on both sides.

I remember no such thing. Neither Doré nor DeMille depicted any such thing.

[lar3ryca]

Excellent!

That would also work for West Nile Virus, but for a different reason.

--
When you wake up in middle of a dream, do people in your dream say "Wow!
He just disappeared!"?

[Sam Plusnet]

But it's perfectly OK to be a lusty individual.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Quinn C]

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

What, we're giving up on dualism now?

[Madhu]

* "Peter T. Daniels" <905108dd-7b84-4b58-9922-935dc6ae93fen @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Sat, 21 May 2022 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT):

> On Saturday, May 21, 2022 at 9:43:49 AM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
>> * "Peter T. Daniels" <599d8f23-7c2b-4d9a-a60c-bf8c546a5aa8n
>> @googlegroups.com> :
>> Wrote on Fri, 20 May 2022 06:39:55 -0700 (PDT):
>
>> > You needn't believe Gustave Doré or Cecil B. DeMille. The whole Decalogue
>> > -- and the whole Holiness Code, for that matter -- could have been
>> > inscribed
>> > on a couple of pocket-size cuneiform tablets.
>> > I once did a popular talk (for an "archeology club" of senior
>> > citizens, in a dining room over a Chinese restaurant on the Upper West
>> > Side) on what the Ten Commandments might have actually looked like. It
>> > was before PowerPoint, so I did a paper handout with a variety of
>> > images, starting with a temple in Yonkers whose facade is in the
>> > traditional "two stone tablets with arched top" shape, with ten Hebrew
>> > letters in two columns.
>>
>> So you said they were 2 copies of 10 commandments and not 5 commandments
>> on each
>
> Hunh?
>
>> Remember - the first sets were written on both sides.
>
> I remember no such thing. Neither Doré nor DeMille depicted any such thing.

I guess you didn't read beyond this and your eyes glazed over the quoted
portions of the bible. this is the second time you have done that.

the following are not random quotes but were quoted for a reason because
they are relevant to what I asked:

>> 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables
>> of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their
>> sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
>> 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the
>> writing of God, graven upon the tables.
>>
>> Moses broke (brake) those, but he made the second set on the same
>> pattern
>>
>> 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like
>> unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were
>> in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Any talk or representation of the tablets that doesn't take into account
that both sides of each tablet were written on, is uninformed.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sat, 21 May 2022 16:33:57 -0400

Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
> > On Fri, 20 May 2022 18:38:13 -0400
> > Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >
> >> * Kerr-Mudd, John:
> >>
> >>> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> >>> forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
> >>
> >> I don't dare defy the commandments outright, so I only have some vague
> >> craven images. Is that ok?
> >>
> > I think "Lustful thoughts" comes under "sins of the flesh", but IANAGB.
>
> What, we're giving up on dualism now?
>

I thought you'd be all for non-binary thinking!

[Peter T. Daniels]

Your "Remember" was inappropriate.

> the following are not random quotes but were quoted for a reason because
> they are relevant to what I asked:

That's very nice, but what you asked wasn't relevant to your "question"
about the facade of the synagogue.

Literally the FIRST Google Images hit for < synagogues yonkers ny >
was exactly what I was talking about. It's visible from Central Avenue,
the main commercial highway running north from NYC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Park_Jewish_Center

> >> 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables
> >> of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their
> >> sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
> >> 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the
> >> writing of God, graven upon the tables.
> >> Moses broke (brake) those, but he made the second set on the same
> >> pattern
> >> 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like
> >> unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were
> >> in the first tables, which thou brakest.
>
> Any talk or representation of the tablets that doesn't take into account
> that both sides of each tablet were written on, is uninformed.

So what?

Doubtless if I looked at a commentary it would tell me that the various
accounts of the events are from different sources with different versions
of events, and only fundamentalists are concerned about a "harmony"
of contradictory stories.

[Jerry Friedman]

The Talmud says that means the letters were cut all the way through, and the
centers of the two closed letters, samekh and mem (that is, final mem) (so
they were written in the modern Hebrew alphabet), were held in place by a
miracle. Later authorities say the text miraculously looked the same from
either side, not with one side the mirror image of the other.

(Also the stone was blue sapphire, and each tablet was about 18 by 18 by
9 inches.)

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1114513/jewish/What-Did-the-Tablets-Look-Like.htm

and references therein.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Quinn C]

* Jerry Friedman:

That would make them on the order of 180 kg (400 lbs) each. I had to
know.

--
... if you're going around with a red pen and apostrophe, you're
... trying to prove your superiority over people. But if you're
going around trying to use people's correct pronouns, ... you're
trying to connect with them and ... respect them.
-- Gretchen McCulloch on Factually!

[Peter T. Daniels]

Wow. What would half a cubic cubit of sapphire weigh? Let alone two of them.

[Madhu]

* "Peter T. Daniels" <2d5a6f67-385b-4cb4-992a-55ae99ff9198n @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Sun, 22 May 2022 06:32:27 -0700 (PDT):

I found this pic of the old synagogue
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/522cd6e2e4b0a015e8d5c331/1516143622587-M4B16QCCPJEC67U4I59M/Old+Synagogue+Pic+copy.jpg

There are four tablets each depicting 5 characters (I couldn;t tell if
they if the alphabet was in order or what the characters were)
. presumably the pair on the right are front and back of the first
tablet (aleph to he on the front, wav to yud on the back) , and the pair
on the left are the front and back of the second.

So this pattern suggests the two tablets were not two copies of each
other, but each contained half of the commandments.

The other view that I've heard is that each tablet contained all the
commandments and there were two copies.

>> >> 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables
>> >> of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their
>> >> sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
>> >> 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the
>> >> writing of God, graven upon the tables.
>> >> Moses broke (brake) those, but he made the second set on the same
>> >> pattern
>> >> 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like
>> >> unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were
>> >> in the first tables, which thou brakest.
>>
>> Any talk or representation of the tablets that doesn't take into account
>> that both sides of each tablet were written on, is uninformed.
>
> So what?
>
> Doubtless if I looked at a commentary it would tell me that the various
> accounts of the events are from different sources with different versions
> of events, and only fundamentalists are concerned about a "harmony"
> of contradictory stories.

There isnt any contradiction in the text of exodus about the tablets,
and that is your primary source, you can't ignore it.