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James Silverton
Apr 7, 2013, 9:48:57 PM4/7/13
to
I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
channel;
Something like for example
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
wonder how the terminology arose.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
channel;
Something like for example
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
wonder how the terminology arose.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
Robert Bannister
Apr 7, 2013, 11:20:25 PM4/7/13
to
On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
--
Robert Bannister
Steve Hayes
Apr 7, 2013, 11:56:28 PM4/7/13
to
On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
wrote:
Which one is a bar sinister?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
wrote:
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Horace LaBadie
Apr 8, 2013, 12:46:57 AM4/8/13
to
In article <kjt7hg$1b1$1...@dont-email.me>,
reading direction.
But I thought that it was an oblique stroke in Britain?
James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
Forward slash leans to the right, which is forward relative to the
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
reading direction.
But I thought that it was an oblique stroke in Britain?
R H Draney
Apr 8, 2013, 1:26:18 AM4/8/13
to
Steve Hayes filted:
http://www.tomheroes.com/images/COMICunderdog8.jpg
....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>>For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>
>Which one is a bar sinister?
The one holding the ray gun:
>
>Which one is a bar sinister?
http://www.tomheroes.com/images/COMICunderdog8.jpg
....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Snidely
Apr 8, 2013, 2:46:25 AM4/8/13
to
Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
is to say, "Blame Redmond."
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
> terminology arose.
This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
> terminology arose.
discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
is to say, "Blame Redmond."
/dps
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Mike Barnes
Apr 8, 2013, 5:54:30 AM4/8/13
to
James Silverton <not.jim....@verizon.net>:
My own feeling was that the announcers were simply ignorant of how the
symbol was usually described, and being overly cautious in prepending
the unnecessary "forward".
Actually it's a long time since I heard "forward slash" on the BBC. I
thought the announcers has wised up and stopped saying it, and I'm
disappointed to learn that it isn't so. And the style of announcing
seems to have changed - rather than give a full URL they're quite likely
to say something like "go to the BBC web site and follow the links
to...".
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
>I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC
>TV channel;
>
>Something like for example
>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
>The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>wonder how the terminology arose.
We discussed this at length some time ago, with no firm conclusion IIRC.
>TV channel;
>
>Something like for example
>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
>The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>wonder how the terminology arose.
My own feeling was that the announcers were simply ignorant of how the
symbol was usually described, and being overly cautious in prepending
the unnecessary "forward".
Actually it's a long time since I heard "forward slash" on the BBC. I
thought the announcers has wised up and stopped saying it, and I'm
disappointed to learn that it isn't so. And the style of announcing
seems to have changed - rather than give a full URL they're quite likely
to say something like "go to the BBC web site and follow the links
to...".
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Iain Archer
Apr 8, 2013, 6:25:11 AM4/8/13
to
Mike Barnes wrote on Mon, 8 Apr 2013 at 10:54:30 GMT
I wonder if polite inhibition or caution contributed in this instance,
"slash" on its own having several other possibly 'unattractive'
meanings: use of a knife on a person, urination, "slash movies", "slash
fiction".
Is it possible, btw, that BBC announcers are at last sometimes not using
"login to" when they simply mean "go to"?
--
Iain Archer
"slash" on its own having several other possibly 'unattractive'
meanings: use of a knife on a person, urination, "slash movies", "slash
fiction".
Is it possible, btw, that BBC announcers are at last sometimes not using
"login to" when they simply mean "go to"?
--
Iain Archer
Nick Spalding
Apr 8, 2013, 6:25:36 AM4/8/13
to
Steve Hayes wrote, in <luf4m8d4bl2s07n2r...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 08 Apr 2013 05:56:28 +0200:
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> >> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> >> channel;
> >>
> >> Something like for example
> >> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
> >>
> >> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> >> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> >> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> >> wonder how the terminology arose.
> >
> >For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>
> Which one is a bar sinister?
In Cable & Wireless when I worked there in the 1950s the word for "/"
was "bar"; the "\" didn't exist.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
on Mon, 08 Apr 2013 05:56:28 +0200:
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> >> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> >> channel;
> >>
> >> Something like for example
> >> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
> >>
> >> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> >> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> >> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> >> wonder how the terminology arose.
> >
> >For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>
> Which one is a bar sinister?
was "bar"; the "\" didn't exist.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 8, 2013, 6:32:33 AM4/8/13
to
On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>> terminology arose.
>
>This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
>discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>
I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
particular slash.
Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
>Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>> terminology arose.
>
>This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
>discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>
My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
particular slash.
Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Message has been deleted
James Silverton
Apr 8, 2013, 8:33:30 AM4/8/13
to
"slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
Message has been deleted
Jerry Friedman
Apr 8, 2013, 10:13:37 AM4/8/13
to
On Apr 7, 10:46 pm, Horace LaBadie <hlaba...@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <kjt7hg$1b...@dont-email.me>,
Are you sure it doesn't slope to the left?
--
Jerry Friedman
> In article <kjt7hg$1b...@dont-email.me>,
> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> > channel;
>
> > Something like for example
> >http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> > The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> > slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> > would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> > wonder how the terminology arose.
>
> Forward slash leans to the right, which is forward relative to the
> reading direction.
...
>
> > I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> > channel;
>
> > Something like for example
> >http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> > The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> > slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> > would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> > wonder how the terminology arose.
>
> Forward slash leans to the right, which is forward relative to the
> reading direction.
Are you sure it doesn't slope to the left?
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
Apr 8, 2013, 10:16:28 AM4/8/13
to
On Apr 8, 6:33 am, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
wrote:
...
> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
That's probably the reason that people get confused about the names.
I hadn't thought of it before, or if I'd seen someone point it out, I
forgot it.
--
Jerry Friedman
wrote:
...
> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
I hadn't thought of it before, or if I'd seen someone point it out, I
forgot it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
Apr 8, 2013, 10:40:13 AM4/8/13
to
where several people have made check marks, you can always spot the
check marks by the left-handers.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Mike Barnes
Apr 8, 2013, 11:07:04 AM4/8/13
to
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com>:
confused. What appears to confuse them is "forward slash" instead of
just "slash". Things were a lot simpler when there was "slash" (AKA
stroke, oblique, "or") and "backslash" (a name they hadn't heard before
for a thing they never knew existed).
>On Apr 8, 6:33�am, James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>...
>
>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>
>That's probably the reason that people get confused about the names.
On occasion I've explored the issues with people who say they're
>wrote:
>...
>
>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>
>That's probably the reason that people get confused about the names.
confused. What appears to confuse them is "forward slash" instead of
just "slash". Things were a lot simpler when there was "slash" (AKA
stroke, oblique, "or") and "backslash" (a name they hadn't heard before
for a thing they never knew existed).
Irwell
Apr 8, 2013, 12:25:23 PM4/8/13
to
On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:32:33 +0100, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>> channel;
>>>
>>> Something like for example
>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>>> terminology arose.
>>
>>This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
>>discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>>forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>>happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>>is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>>
> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>
> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
My army number was S/XXXXXXXXXXXX, we had to say is as
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>> channel;
>>>
>>> Something like for example
>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>>> terminology arose.
>>
>>This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
>>discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>>forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>>happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>>is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>>
> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>
> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
"S Oblique".
Dr Nick
Apr 8, 2013, 3:43:51 PM4/8/13
to
Mike L
Apr 8, 2013, 5:32:09 PM4/8/13
to
right-hander slashes "forehand" with a sword, the stroke generally
travels downward from right to left. A back-handed slash will usually
go down from left to right. Same with the allegedly mightier weapon.
"Slash" and "backslash".
--
Mike.
Walter P. Zähl
Apr 8, 2013, 7:00:24 PM4/8/13
to
Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
Is that the way it's pronounced?
>
> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
I say bbc dotco dotuk.
/Walter
Robert Bannister
Apr 8, 2013, 9:10:27 PM4/8/13
to
On 8/04/13 11:56 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>> channel;
>>>
>>> Something like for example
>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>
>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>
> Which one is a bar sinister?
>
>
There was a bar I went into in Southwark one foggy night...
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>> channel;
>>>
>>> Something like for example
>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>
>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>
> Which one is a bar sinister?
>
>
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 8, 2013, 9:15:28 PM4/8/13
to
start wondering "whose righ?".
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 8, 2013, 9:16:56 PM4/8/13
to
--
Robert Bannister
Irwell
Apr 8, 2013, 10:12:23 PM4/8/13
to
Garrett Wollman
Apr 8, 2013, 10:23:45 PM4/8/13
to
In article <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>,
I say "B-B-C DOT C-O DOT U-K".
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Message has been deleted
Steve Hayes
Apr 9, 2013, 12:50:20 AM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:16:56 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
wrote:
>On 9/04/13 7:00 AM, Walter P. Z�hl wrote:
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>
>> /Walter
>>
>
>Thus dialects are born.
Like the difference between "you are ells" and "earls"?
I'm not sure whether that correlates with the difference here between those
who say "see oh dot zed ay" and those who say "dot coza".
wrote:
>On 9/04/13 7:00 AM, Walter P. Z�hl wrote:
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>
>> /Walter
>>
>
>Thus dialects are born.
I'm not sure whether that correlates with the difference here between those
who say "see oh dot zed ay" and those who say "dot coza".
Mike Barnes
Apr 9, 2013, 2:31:24 AM4/9/13
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>In message <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>
>Me too.
>
>In fact, "dotcodotuk" is pretty much one word.
>
>But I think on Strictly Tess might say bbcdot codot uk. Or maybe bbc
>dotcodot uk.
"u k", surely, not "uk".
For me it's pretty much one word, as you say, but if I deliberately slow
it down it becomes bee bee cee, dot coe, dot yew kay.
I'm delighted to see that they've dropped the "www.".
>In message <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>
>
>In fact, "dotcodotuk" is pretty much one word.
>
>But I think on Strictly Tess might say bbcdot codot uk. Or maybe bbc
>dotcodot uk.
"u k", surely, not "uk".
For me it's pretty much one word, as you say, but if I deliberately slow
it down it becomes bee bee cee, dot coe, dot yew kay.
I'm delighted to see that they've dropped the "www.".
Katy Jennison
Apr 9, 2013, 3:15:28 AM4/9/13
to
detail) the way most of the BBC people pronounced it.
--
Katy Jennison
R H Draney
Apr 9, 2013, 4:32:23 AM4/9/13
to
Irwell filted:
And the slashes come a bit later....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Apr 9, 2013, 4:46:58 AM4/9/13
to
On 2013-04-08 05:26:18 +0000, R H Draney said:
> Steve Hayes filted:
same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>> --
athel
> Steve Hayes filted:
>>
>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>
>> Which one is a bar sinister?
Neither. In heraldry a bar is a horizontal strip that looks exactly the
>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>
>> Which one is a bar sinister?
same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>> --
athel
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 9, 2013, 7:25:04 AM4/9/13
to
On 8 Apr 2013 23:00:24 GMT, Walter P. Z�hl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>
>Is that the way it's pronounced?
>
Yes. Frequently.
>Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>
>Is that the way it's pronounced?
>
The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
I wonder how I, or we, would say it if there were commas instead of
dots?
bbc,co,uk
"bbc comma <pause> co comma <pause> uk" perhaps?
>I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>
<pause> comma uk"?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Apr 9, 2013, 9:01:32 AM4/9/13
to
On 2013-04-09 12:16:52 +0200, Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:
> In message <asi2ru...@mid.individual.net>
> But in French it's barre sinister, and that is pronounced just like 'bar
> sinister'.
It's "sinistre", and although it's true that Fr. "barre" is pronounced
approximately like Eng. "bar" it isn't "just like 'bar'", and
"sinistre" is not pronounced even approximately like "sinister".
It raises the question that always arises in translation: do you
translate word by word, or do you take account of context? For a
particularly gross example, the only reasonable way of translating
German "Krebs-Zyklus" into English is "Krebs cycle", but it has been
known for translators who didn't understand what they were translating
to render it as "cancer cycle".
One of the resident idiots at sci.lang insists on writing German
"Feuerland" as English "Fireland", ignoring the fact that most English
speakers won't have any idea where Fireland is, because the English
name for it is Tierra del Fuego.
--
athel
> In message <asi2ru...@mid.individual.net>
> sinister'.
It's "sinistre", and although it's true that Fr. "barre" is pronounced
approximately like Eng. "bar" it isn't "just like 'bar'", and
"sinistre" is not pronounced even approximately like "sinister".
It raises the question that always arises in translation: do you
translate word by word, or do you take account of context? For a
particularly gross example, the only reasonable way of translating
German "Krebs-Zyklus" into English is "Krebs cycle", but it has been
known for translators who didn't understand what they were translating
to render it as "cancer cycle".
One of the resident idiots at sci.lang insists on writing German
"Feuerland" as English "Fireland", ignoring the fact that most English
speakers won't have any idea where Fireland is, because the English
name for it is Tierra del Fuego.
--
athel
Message has been deleted
Leslie Danks
Apr 9, 2013, 9:33:34 AM4/9/13
to
translated by a person primarily trained in an appropriate discipline,
rather than by someone who has studied languages and is picking up the
technical bits as he/she goes along. Reading a poem written by a radiologist
might be painful, but radiotherapy with a device whose manual was translated
by a poet could be a great deal worse.
> One of the resident idiots at sci.lang insists on writing German
> "Feuerland" as English "Fireland", ignoring the fact that most English
> speakers won't have any idea where Fireland is, because the English
> name for it is Tierra del Fuego.
>
>
--
"... be skeptical of government guidelines. The Indians learned not to trust
our government and neither should you." (Fallon & Enig)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 9, 2013, 10:19:43 AM4/9/13
to
On 9 Apr 2013 13:15:35 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>>The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> A dictionary I recently looked up said IIRC that in
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
That is correct.
When the "dot" is used in a number it is a "decimal point". So "3.5" is
spoken in BrE as "three point five".
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>>The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
That is correct.
When the "dot" is used in a number it is a "decimal point". So "3.5" is
spoken in BrE as "three point five".
Irwell
Apr 9, 2013, 11:32:39 AM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:33:34 +0200, Leslie Danks wrote:
>
> That is why (IMHO) technical/medical/scientific material should be
> translated by a person primarily trained in an appropriate discipline,
> rather than by someone who has studied languages and is picking up the
> technical bits as he/she goes along. Reading a poem written by a radiologist
> might be painful, but radiotherapy with a device whose manual was translated
> by a poet could be a great deal worse.
The technical stuff should be translated by the expert in the field,
>
> That is why (IMHO) technical/medical/scientific material should be
> translated by a person primarily trained in an appropriate discipline,
> rather than by someone who has studied languages and is picking up the
> technical bits as he/she goes along. Reading a poem written by a radiologist
> might be painful, but radiotherapy with a device whose manual was translated
> by a poet could be a great deal worse.
but it should be cleaned up by an English editor.
Message has been deleted
Jerry Friedman
Apr 9, 2013, 11:40:57 AM4/9/13
to
On Apr 8, 9:07 am, Mike Barnes <mikebarnes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com>:
That makes a lot of sense to me.
--
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com>:
--
Jerry Friedman
Irwell
Apr 9, 2013, 11:46:39 AM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:26:00 +0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> In message <9j88m89g1occn2len...@4ax.com>
> Is there any English where this is not the case?
In currency transactions? Example $100.50.
> In message <9j88m89g1occn2len...@4ax.com>
In currency transactions? Example $100.50.
Jerry Friedman
Apr 9, 2013, 11:41:57 AM4/9/13
to
On Apr 8, 6:50 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/8/2013 6:32 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> >> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
> >>> discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
> >>> forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
> >>> happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
> >>> is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>
> >> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>
> >> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
> >> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
>
> >> By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
> >> using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
> >> computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
> >> mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
> >> new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
> >> was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
> >> particular slash.
>
> >> Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
>
> >> A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
> >> spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
> >> URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
bottom.
--
Jerry Friedman
> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/8/2013 6:32 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> >> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
> >>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> >>>> channel;
>
> >>>> Something like for example
> >>>>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> >>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
> >>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
> >>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
> >>>> terminology arose.
>
> >>> This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
> >>>> channel;
>
> >>>> Something like for example
> >>>>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> >>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
> >>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
> >>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
> >>>> terminology arose.
>
> >>> discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
> >>> forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
> >>> happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
> >>> is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>
> >> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>
> >> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
> >> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
>
> >> By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
> >> using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
> >> computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
> >> mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
> >> new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
> >> was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
> >> particular slash.
>
> >> Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
>
> >> A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
> >> spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
> >> URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
>
> > Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
> > "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>
> Who doesn't?
> > Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
> > "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>
I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
bottom.
--
Jerry Friedman
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Wayne Brown
Apr 9, 2013, 1:07:05 PM4/9/13
to
> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
Interesting! Here in the US, I think most people either would say it
>
> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
without pausing, or else would pause *before* the dot: bbc .co .uk with
the emphasis something like "beebeeSEE dotSEEoh dotYOUkay."
--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>
ￜￜs ofereode, ￜisses swa mￜg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Steve Hayes
Apr 9, 2013, 1:31:21 PM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:46:58 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr>
wrote:
Ah well, scratch that, then.
wrote:
Steve Hayes
Apr 9, 2013, 1:36:40 PM4/9/13
to
On 9 Apr 2013 13:15:35 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>>The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
>
> A dictionary I recently looked up said IIRC that in
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
A full stop is a dot that comes at the end of a sentence.
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
A dot elsewhere is just a dot, unless it is a decimal point.
Dr Nick
Apr 9, 2013, 2:41:19 PM4/9/13
to
Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> writes:
> Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>>
>> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
>
> Interesting! Here in the US, I think most people either would say it
> without pausing, or else would pause *before* the dot: bbc .co .uk with
> the emphasis something like "beebeeSEE dotSEEoh dotYOUkay."
Here in the UK most of us do as well. But the Beeb seemed to have an
> Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>>
>> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
>
> Interesting! Here in the US, I think most people either would say it
> without pausing, or else would pause *before* the dot: bbc .co .uk with
> the emphasis something like "beebeeSEE dotSEEoh dotYOUkay."
official - and strange - version of giving URLs unlike that used by
anyone else.
Curlytop
Apr 9, 2013, 3:18:13 PM4/9/13
to
James Silverton set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
was now an ambiguous, generic term.
The classic example of a retronym is of course "acoustic guitar".
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
continuum:
> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
> channel;
>
> Something like for example
> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
> wonder how the terminology arose.
character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
was now an ambiguous, generic term.
The classic example of a retronym is of course "acoustic guitar".
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Mike Barnes
Apr 9, 2013, 4:02:29 PM4/9/13
to
Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com>:
there was an ambiguity were people who were unfamiliar with the two
kinds of slash.
It's rather like saying "forward-clockwise" to avoid a supposed
ambiguity between "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise" or "anti-
clockwise". People who are used to the terms don't experience any
ambiguity, and can easily be confused by the unnecessary prefix. Then
there's "plus one" to avoid an imagined ambiguity between "one" and
"minus one".
>James Silverton set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>continuum:
>
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>
>It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
>character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
>an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
>before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
>come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
>giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
>was now an ambiguous, generic term.
I agree with all of that, and I'd observe that those people who thought
>continuum:
>
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>
>It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
>character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
>an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
>before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
>come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
>giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
>was now an ambiguous, generic term.
there was an ambiguity were people who were unfamiliar with the two
kinds of slash.
It's rather like saying "forward-clockwise" to avoid a supposed
ambiguity between "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise" or "anti-
clockwise". People who are used to the terms don't experience any
ambiguity, and can easily be confused by the unnecessary prefix. Then
there's "plus one" to avoid an imagined ambiguity between "one" and
"minus one".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Apr 9, 2013, 4:18:46 PM4/9/13
to
only too easy for an English editor to introduce an error that is much
worse than the trvial infelicity that they are trying to correct.
--
athel
Mike L
Apr 9, 2013, 4:55:30 PM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:14:46 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <Kzah9eF8...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
>obvious uk is always yew kay" trap.
A friend on BFBS once had a lapse of concentration and made an
announcement about the next flight to "uck".
--
Mike.
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <Kzah9eF8...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>>>In message <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>
>>> Walter P Z�hl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>>>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>>
>>>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>>
>>>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>>
>>>Me too.
>>>
>>>In fact, "dotcodotuk" is pretty much one word.
>>>
>>>But I think on Strictly Tess might say bbcdot codot uk. Or maybe bbc
>>>dotcodot uk.
>
>> "u k", surely, not "uk".
>
>Yes of course, should have been more explicit but I fell into the "it's
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>>>In message <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>
>>> Walter P Z�hl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>>>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>>
>>>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>>
>>>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>>
>>>Me too.
>>>
>>>In fact, "dotcodotuk" is pretty much one word.
>>>
>>>But I think on Strictly Tess might say bbcdot codot uk. Or maybe bbc
>>>dotcodot uk.
>
>> "u k", surely, not "uk".
>
>obvious uk is always yew kay" trap.
A friend on BFBS once had a lapse of concentration and made an
announcement about the next flight to "uck".
--
Mike.
Mike L
Apr 9, 2013, 4:59:19 PM4/9/13
to
--
Mike.
Evan Kirshenbaum
Apr 9, 2013, 5:33:41 PM4/9/13
to
Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:46:58 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2013-04-08 05:26:18 +0000, R H Draney said:
>>
>>> Steve Hayes filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>>>
>>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>
>>Neither. In heraldry a bar is a horizontal strip that looks exactly the
>>same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
>>sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>
> Ah well, scratch that, then.
"Bar sinister" has been used in English since the early/mid nineteenth
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:46:58 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2013-04-08 05:26:18 +0000, R H Draney said:
>>
>>> Steve Hayes filted:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>>>
>>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>
>>Neither. In heraldry a bar is a horizontal strip that looks exactly the
>>same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
>>sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>
> Ah well, scratch that, then.
century, though. For example, the 1833 _Encyclop�dia Britannica_,
says of Charles II,
It is remarkable that the matter in which Charles most firmly
withstood opposition was one in which he was not personally
concerned--the exclusion of his brother, the duke of York, from
the succession. This is the more remarkable as there is good
reason to believe that his affection was much stronger for the
duke of Monmouth, his own son by Lucy Walters. He treated him
like a legitimate prince, and permitted him to wear the royal arms
without the bar sinister, ...
That same year, I see a volume of Sir Walter Scott, in which he used
.the phrase several times, e.g.,
... that she had laid aside for the present a surcoat which she
was working for her husband bearing the arms of Croye and La Marck
in conjugal fashion, parted per pale, because her William had
determined, for purposes of policy, in the first action to have
others dressed in his coat-armour, and himself to assume the arms
of Orleans, with a bar sinister--in other words, those of Dunois.
Wikipedia opines that the phrase is likely due to Scott, who died in
1832.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |If to "man" a phone implies handing
SF Bay Area (1982-) |it over to a person of the male
Chicago (1964-1982) |gender, then to "monitor" it
|suggests handing it over to a
evan.kir...@gmail.com |lizard.
| Rohan Oberoi
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Irwell
Apr 9, 2013, 6:32:42 PM4/9/13
to
was how to hold the pen, loosely not with a tight grip because many of
the shorthand symbols are bottom to top motion.
Message has been deleted
R H Draney
Apr 9, 2013, 6:36:42 PM4/9/13
to
Lewis filted:
>
>In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>handwriting.
Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
start at?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>handwriting.
Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
start at?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
R H Draney
Apr 9, 2013, 6:39:34 PM4/9/13
to
Lewis filted:
>
>In message <Kzah9eF8...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "u k", surely, not "uk".
>
>Yes of course, should have been more explicit but I fell into the "it's
>obvious uk is always yew kay" trap.
Just as it's obvious that it stands for "University of Kentucky"....r
>In message <Kzah9eF8...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "u k", surely, not "uk".
>
>Yes of course, should have been more explicit but I fell into the "it's
>obvious uk is always yew kay" trap.
Message has been deleted
Irwell
Apr 9, 2013, 6:57:39 PM4/9/13
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 9, 2013, 7:45:40 PM4/9/13
to
The end I start at is above the end I finish at.
In others words, I finish at the end next to the copyright mark in this
image:
http://www.craigoldham.co.uk/files/ampersand.jpg
micky
Apr 9, 2013, 8:29:31 PM4/9/13
to
On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 21:48:57 -0400, James Silverton
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>channel;
>
>Something like for example
>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
>The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>wonder how the terminology arose.
Originally the only slash in use was / . It was found on typewriters
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>channel;
>
>Something like for example
>http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>
>The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>wonder how the terminology arose.
and used to indicate division, 2/3, or rate, 3 gal/minute.
Computer people decided they needed an additional symbol \ may have
existed already -- I don't know -- but it wasn't very popular. If it
didn't exist, the computer folk created it and called it backslash.
Forward slash is a retronym, a new name attached to a pre-existing
thing, to contrast it with a new thing that is a lot like the old
thing. (As in acoustic guitar, a name only used after electric guitars
were invented.)
The BBC and maybe the British in general use forward slash to be
precise and explicit, instead of just slash, like Americans do.
Message has been deleted
Tony Cooper
Apr 9, 2013, 8:37:52 PM4/9/13
to
the upper right. When I do the traditional one, as a test, I start at
the lower right. I'm left-handed. I think left-handers pull the
stroke up from the right.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:01:22 AM4/10/13
to
On 9/04/13 9:33 PM, Leslie Danks wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> On 2013-04-09 12:16:52 +0200, Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> said:
>>
>>> In message <asi2ru...@mid.individual.net>
>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>>>> On 2013-04-08 05:26:18 +0000, R H Draney said:
>>>
>>>>> Steve Hayes filted:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>>
>>>> Neither. In heraldry a bar is a horizontal strip that looks exactly the
>>>> same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
>>>> sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>>>
>>> But in French it's barre sinister, and that is pronounced just like 'bar
>>>> On 2013-04-08 05:26:18 +0000, R H Draney said:
>>>
>>>>> Steve Hayes filted:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>>>> <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>>
>>>> Neither. In heraldry a bar is a horizontal strip that looks exactly the
>>>> same whether it is seen from the left or from the right, so "bar
>>>> sinister" is meaningless. The proper term is "bend sinister".
>>>
>>> sinister'.
>>
>> It's "sinistre", and although it's true that Fr. "barre" is pronounced
>> approximately like Eng. "bar" it isn't "just like 'bar'", and
>> "sinistre" is not pronounced even approximately like "sinister".
>>
>> It raises the question that always arises in translation: do you
>> translate word by word, or do you take account of context? For a
>> particularly gross example, the only reasonable way of translating
>> German "Krebs-Zyklus" into English is "Krebs cycle", but it has been
>> known for translators who didn't understand what they were translating
>> to render it as "cancer cycle".
>
> That is why (IMHO) technical/medical/scientific material should be
> translated by a person primarily trained in an appropriate discipline,
> rather than by someone who has studied languages and is picking up the
> technical bits as he/she goes along. Reading a poem written by a radiologist
> might be painful, but radiotherapy with a device whose manual was translated
> by a poet could be a great deal worse.
I was once asked by the manager of an engineering firm to translate the
> That is why (IMHO) technical/medical/scientific material should be
> translated by a person primarily trained in an appropriate discipline,
> rather than by someone who has studied languages and is picking up the
> technical bits as he/she goes along. Reading a poem written by a radiologist
> might be painful, but radiotherapy with a device whose manual was translated
> by a poet could be a great deal worse.
German instructions for a new piece of heavy machinery into English.
After a few hours, I realised I didn't even understand the English words
I was writing down so I asked to meet the man who was going to be
working with the thing. Suddenly, it became a piece of cake.
Since I am still non-technical, I can't remember any actual examples so
this will sound a bit stupid, but it was like saying "turn the
pressure-air-hose-screw" and the engineer would say, "Got it, I turn the
[English words I don't understand]" and he was has happy as Larry. I
still can't remember what the machine was - nothing to do with
compressed air, I think, maybe some kind of hydraulic press.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:02:34 AM4/10/13
to
On 9/04/13 10:12 AM, Irwell wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:10:27 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> Where the beer is served in left handed mugs.
>
In fact, by a right bastard.
--
Robert Bannister
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:10:27 +0800, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> On 8/04/13 11:56 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> On 8/04/13 11:56 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:20:25 +0800, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/04/13 9:48 AM, James Silverton wrote:
>>>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>>>> channel;
>>>>>
>>>>> Something like for example
>>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>>>
>>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>>>
>>>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>>>> channel;
>>>>>
>>>>> Something like for example
>>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>>>
>>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>>>
>>>> For me, "/" is a "slash" and "\" is something else.
>>>
>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> There was a bar I went into in Southwark one foggy night...
>>>
>>> Which one is a bar sinister?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> Where the beer is served in left handed mugs.
>
In fact, by a right bastard.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:05:40 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/13 12:36 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 8, 6:50 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 8, 6:50 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 4/8/2013 6:32 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>>>>> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:46:25 -0700, Snidely <snidely....@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Remember Sunday, when James Silverton asked plainitively:
>>>>>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>>>>>> channel;
>>>
>>>>>>> Something like for example
>>>>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>>>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>>>>>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>>>>>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>>>>>>> terminology arose.
>>>
>>>>>>> channel;
>>>
>>>>>>> Something like for example
>>>>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>
>>>>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward slashes
>>>>>>> as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I would
>>>>>>> interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I wonder how the
>>>>>>> terminology arose.
>>>
>>>>>> This particular neologism rings a bell ... but I'm not sure whether the
>>>>>> discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>>>>>> forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>>>>>> happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>>>>>> is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>>>
>>>>> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>>>
>>>>> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
>>>>> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
>>>
>>>>> By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
>>>>> using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
>>>>> computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
>>>>> mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
>>>>> new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
>>>>> was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
>>>>> particular slash.
>>>
>>>>> Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
>>>
>>>>> A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
>>>>> spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
>>>>> URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
>>>
>>>>>> discussion was here or in AFCA. I think the consensus is that the
>>>>>> forwarding arose after Windows became popular (although I could see it
>>>>>> happening after DOS 2.x, if you present even a little evidence). That
>>>>>> is to say, "Blame Redmond."
>>>
>>>>> I recall discussing this previously in aue, or possibly aeu.
>>>
>>>>> My impression is that the word "slash" was not used in BrE for "/". That
>>>>> was "stroke", or more formally, "solidus" or "oblique".
>>>
>>>>> By the time that the non-computer-specialist general public started
>>>>> using computers for browsing the WWW they were faced with new-to-them
>>>>> computer keyboards with two keys marked with oblique symbols
>>>>> mysteriously referred to as "slashes". As this keyboard symbol name was
>>>>> new to BrE there was no default meaning for "slash" in that context. It
>>>>> was necessary to be explicit about the forwardness or backwardness of a
>>>>> particular slash.
>>>
>>>>> Hence "forward slash: /" and "backward slash or backslash: /".
>>>
>>>>> A tangential observation: It occurred to me when URLs started being
>>>>> spoken on radio and TV that they had never been designed to be spoken.
>>>>> URLs were for reading, typing and clicking on, but not for speaking.
>>>
>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>
>>> Who doesn't?
>
>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>> bottom.
>
> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
> handwriting.
We would have been taught to start b and t at the top because that is
>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>
>>> Who doesn't?
>
>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>> bottom.
>
> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
> handwriting.
how they join on to the preceding letter. Ds are different, and I'd
probably start a printed d at top - or not, as the case may be.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:09:03 AM4/10/13
to
Mine look a bit like a slightly less ornate treble clef sign. Without
showing you a picture, I can't describe where I start, but I end up with
a sloping down stroke.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:14:45 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/13 7:45 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 8, 6:50Â am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> Â James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> I start at the beginning end, not the ending end.
>
> The end I start at is above the end I finish at.
>
> In others words, I finish at the end next to the copyright mark in this
> image:
> http://www.craigoldham.co.uk/files/ampersand.jpg
>
That is exactly how I do it, but when my hand forgets, I launch into a
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> I start at the beginning end, not the ending end.
>
> The end I start at is above the end I finish at.
>
> In others words, I finish at the end next to the copyright mark in this
> image:
> http://www.craigoldham.co.uk/files/ampersand.jpg
>
much more complicated monogram of ετ (ET), start at the top and get lost
until I remember.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:17:27 AM4/10/13
to
On 9/04/13 10:23 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>,
Have you always been a capital speller?
How would a listener know?
--
Robert Bannister
> In article <1354013750387154656.31...@news.individual.net>,
> Walter P. Zähl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>
> I say "B-B-C DOT C-O DOT U-K".
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>
Have you always been a capital speller?
How would a listener know?
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:24:24 AM4/10/13
to
On 9/04/13 9:15 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
>
How can you call a dot a punctuation mark? There is a punctuation mark
called in various countries a "full stop" or in a couple of countries a
"period", but "dot" is not on the list. I would agree that "dot dot dot"
is common spoken way of describing an ellipsis - I've heard it in the
punchline of jokes: "And she said dot dot dot".
Of course, if you were French, you might view a dot as something quite
old-fashioned. Well, some of you will get the point.
--
Robert Bannister
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> A dictionary I recently looked up said IIRC that in
>> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> BrE the punctuation mark �dot� was called �full stop�.
>
How can you call a dot a punctuation mark? There is a punctuation mark
called in various countries a "full stop" or in a couple of countries a
"period", but "dot" is not on the list. I would agree that "dot dot dot"
is common spoken way of describing an ellipsis - I've heard it in the
punchline of jokes: "And she said dot dot dot".
Of course, if you were French, you might view a dot as something quite
old-fashioned. Well, some of you will get the point.
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:27:28 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/13 2:41 AM, Dr Nick wrote:
> Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>
> Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>>>
>>>
>>> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
>>
>> Interesting! Here in the US, I think most people either would say it
>> without pausing, or else would pause *before* the dot: bbc .co .uk with
>> the emphasis something like "beebeeSEE dotSEEoh dotYOUkay."
>
> Here in the UK most of us do as well. But the Beeb seemed to have an
> official - and strange - version of giving URLs unlike that used by
> anyone else.
>
I'm not convinced about the "anyone else". I have only heard urls spoken
>>
>> Interesting! Here in the US, I think most people either would say it
>> without pausing, or else would pause *before* the dot: bbc .co .uk with
>> the emphasis something like "beebeeSEE dotSEEoh dotYOUkay."
>
> Here in the UK most of us do as well. But the Beeb seemed to have an
> official - and strange - version of giving URLs unlike that used by
> anyone else.
>
as xxxdot yyydot zzz dotcom(au).
--
Robert Bannister
Robert Bannister
Apr 10, 2013, 12:30:34 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/13 3:18 AM, Curlytop wrote:
> James Silverton set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
> character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
> an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
> before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
> come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
> giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
> was now an ambiguous, generic term.
>
> The classic example of a retronym is of course "acoustic guitar".
>
I can still remember the first time I was dragged along to see someone
playing acoustic guitar. In a pub, I think it was. Can't remember
anything about the player or what he sang or played. I spent the whole
time staring at the guitar trying to work out what could be different
about it that gave it the name "acoustic".
--
Robert Bannister
> James Silverton set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>
> It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>> channel;
>>
>> Something like for example
>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>
>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>
> character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
> an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
> before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
> come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
> giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
> was now an ambiguous, generic term.
>
> The classic example of a retronym is of course "acoustic guitar".
>
I can still remember the first time I was dragged along to see someone
playing acoustic guitar. In a pub, I think it was. Can't remember
anything about the player or what he sang or played. I spent the whole
time staring at the guitar trying to work out what could be different
about it that gave it the name "acoustic".
--
Robert Bannister
Message has been deleted
Steve Hayes
Apr 10, 2013, 12:58:36 AM4/10/13
to
I find "forward slash" and "backslash" perfectly understandable. I see them
mostly as computer terms, and never had occasion to refer to them before I
began using computers 30 years ago, and it only became important when I began
using MS DOS and Unix about 25 years ago, when the former used the backslash
and the latter used the forward slash in path statements.
There is a clear distinction between them, and the terms "forward slash" and
"back slash" are adequate to make the distinction clear. If you called one of
them a "solidus" I would never know which one you were referring to without
looking it up.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
Apr 10, 2013, 12:59:43 AM4/10/13
to
Dr Nick
Apr 10, 2013, 2:26:39 AM4/10/13
to
Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> writes:
> I was once asked by the manager of an engineering firm to translate
> the German instructions for a new piece of heavy machinery into
> English. After a few hours, I realised I didn't even understand the
> English words I was writing down so I asked to meet the man who was
> going to be working with the thing. Suddenly, it became a piece of
> cake.
>
> Since I am still non-technical, I can't remember any actual examples
> so this will sound a bit stupid, but it was like saying "turn the
> pressure-air-hose-screw" and the engineer would say, "Got it, I turn
> the [English words I don't understand]" and he was has happy as
> Larry. I still can't remember what the machine was - nothing to do
> with compressed air, I think, maybe some kind of hydraulic press.
A water sheep?
> I was once asked by the manager of an engineering firm to translate
> the German instructions for a new piece of heavy machinery into
> English. After a few hours, I realised I didn't even understand the
> English words I was writing down so I asked to meet the man who was
> going to be working with the thing. Suddenly, it became a piece of
> cake.
>
> Since I am still non-technical, I can't remember any actual examples
> so this will sound a bit stupid, but it was like saying "turn the
> pressure-air-hose-screw" and the engineer would say, "Got it, I turn
> the [English words I don't understand]" and he was has happy as
> Larry. I still can't remember what the machine was - nothing to do
> with compressed air, I think, maybe some kind of hydraulic press.
Mike Barnes
Apr 10, 2013, 3:39:02 AM4/10/13
to
R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>:
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
>Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>start at?...r
I write the kitty-cat from the foot to the tail.
>start at?...r
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Mike Barnes
Apr 10, 2013, 1:57:51 AM4/10/13
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>In message <ZYhVH0ZV...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com>:
>> there was an ambiguity were people who were unfamiliar with the two
>> kinds of slash.
>
>And they are also the people who insist that the slash one uses in URLs
>is a backslash.
I think you'll find that your browser will accept either slashes or
backslashes.
>In message <ZYhVH0ZV...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com>:
>>>James Silverton set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>>>continuum:
>>>
>>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>>> channel;
>>>>
>>>> Something like for example
>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>>
>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>>
>>>It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
>>>character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
>>>an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
>>>before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
>>>come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
>>>giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
>>>was now an ambiguous, generic term.
>
>> I agree with all of that, and I'd observe that those people who thought
>>>continuum:
>>>
>>>> I was interested to notice the verbalization of some URL's on the BBC TV
>>>> channel;
>>>>
>>>> Something like for example
>>>> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=427820
>>>>
>>>> The slashes were verbalized as "forward slash". Why are these forward
>>>> slashes as opposed to "\", which is "back slash"? To tell the truth, I
>>>> would interpret just "slash" as the so-called "forward slash" but I
>>>> wonder how the terminology arose.
>>>
>>>It's what they call (I believe) a retronym. Originally there was just the
>>>character / just called the "slash" (when it wasn't a "stroke",
>>>an "oblique", a "solidus" or some other word). The character \ was unknown
>>>before the advent of computers, and the best description that people could
>>>come up with was a "backwards slash", soon scrunched to "backslash", and
>>>giving rise to "forward slash" for the original / character to resolve what
>>>was now an ambiguous, generic term.
>
>> there was an ambiguity were people who were unfamiliar with the two
>> kinds of slash.
>
>And they are also the people who insist that the slash one uses in URLs
>is a backslash.
I think you'll find that your browser will accept either slashes or
backslashes.
Message has been deleted
Mike Barnes
Apr 10, 2013, 4:49:30 AM4/10/13
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>In message <vxDItkdf...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>
><http:\\www.bloomberg.com\video\unlocking-the-power-of-the-ipad-for-
>the-blind-~cj884a7S92Nn5qTInjfBg.html>
>
>On OS X 10.8.3. Firefox reports an error, Safari searches Google.
Ah well. That URL worked for me in Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari,
and Chrome - all on Windows 7.
>It does
>work in Chrome,
OK
>but it changes the \'s to /'s
Naturally.
>In message <vxDItkdf...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>:
>>>people who insist that the slash one uses in URLs
>>>is a backslash.
>
>> I think you'll find that your browser will accept either slashes or
>> backslashes.
>
>Not here.
>>>is a backslash.
>
>> I think you'll find that your browser will accept either slashes or
>> backslashes.
>
>
><http:\\www.bloomberg.com\video\unlocking-the-power-of-the-ipad-for-
>the-blind-~cj884a7S92Nn5qTInjfBg.html>
>
>On OS X 10.8.3. Firefox reports an error, Safari searches Google.
Ah well. That URL worked for me in Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari,
and Chrome - all on Windows 7.
>It does
>work in Chrome,
OK
>but it changes the \'s to /'s
Naturally.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 10, 2013, 6:44:17 AM4/10/13
to
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 20:29:31 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
The word "slash" for "/" was not in use in general BrE until urls
arrived. It was previously unfamiliar and therefore didn't have an
established meaning in BrE for a symbol in writing. There was no such
thing as an 'ordinary/standard' slash in BrE. The "/" needed a
distinctive nams as much as the "\" did.
It is possible that as the UK public become accustomed to the immigrant
word "slash" that "forward" will be omitted.
wrote:
arrived. It was previously unfamiliar and therefore didn't have an
established meaning in BrE for a symbol in writing. There was no such
thing as an 'ordinary/standard' slash in BrE. The "/" needed a
distinctive nams as much as the "\" did.
It is possible that as the UK public become accustomed to the immigrant
word "slash" that "forward" will be omitted.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 10, 2013, 7:28:59 AM4/10/13
to
On 10 Apr 2013 11:12:08 GMT, r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:
>>The word "slash" for "/" was not in use in general BrE until urls
>>arrived. It was previously unfamiliar and therefore didn't have an
>
> In fact, the earliest OED proof for this meaning of the word
>>arrived. It was previously unfamiliar and therefore didn't have an
>
> (»/«) seems to be »1961 Webster's 3rd New Internat. Dict.
> Eng. Lang.«.
>
> I am somewhat surprised that this word is so young, because
> I assume that the character »/« was used much earlier.
> It possibly had no proper name, or it had other names.
>
The character "/" certainly had names in British English: "solidus" and
"oblique stroke". "oblique stroke" was usually abbreviated to "stroke"
and occasionally to "oblique".
The relevant sense in the OED for "stroke, n" is:
In Telegraphy, the name of the signal for an oblique stroke. Now
usually colloquial, a spoken representation of a solidus. Freq.
used as conj. to indicate or stress alternatives: or else,
alternatively.
1884 W. Lynd Pract. Telegraphist i. 27 The oblique stroke is to
be signalled ‘stroke’, thus—‘FI three stroke five FF’, meaning 3/5
(three shillings and fivepence).
1965 M. Allingham Mind Readers xv. 153, I have my own feel, of
course, which would be ‘glad stroke laughing at’ in his case.
1971 J. Yardley Kiss a Day ii. 39 The Truman stroke Eisenhower
regime.
1974 G. Markstein Cooler xlvii. 171 ABPQ stroke 113 stroke 1. Ah
yes. Is that your national registration number?
1977 N. J. Crisp Odd Job Man iii. 28 One dozen cardigans, stroke
thirty-three, blue, for knitwear.
[
> In medieval manuscripts, often a virgule »/« was used in
> place of today's comma, it was also used by Chaucer.
>
> Today, it's even spoken: »What did he do slash say?«
That would be translated into BrE as "What did he do stroke say?"
Walter P. Zähl
Apr 10, 2013, 8:01:05 AM4/10/13
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> On 8 Apr 2013 23:00:24 GMT, Walter P. Zähl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
> Yes. Frequently.
>
>> Dr Nick <nosp...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Are you talking about those purveyors of bbcdot codot uk? I doubt it.
>>
>> Is that the way it's pronounced?
>>
>
> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
>
> I wonder how I, or we, would say it if there were commas instead of
> The dot is spoken as one might speak a terminating punctuation mark.
>
> So bbc.co.uk is spoken as if it were written bbc. co. uk.
>
> dots?
>
> bbc,co,uk
>
> "bbc comma <pause> co comma <pause> uk" perhaps?
>
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>
> How would you say the comma version? Would it be "bbc <pause> comma co
>> I say bbc dotco dotuk.
>>
> <pause> comma uk"?
Interesting question.
If that was the convention, I guess I might even leave out the commas
completely, as the pause alone could be sufficient (just as in spoken
conversation).
On the other hand, this is something I abhor in the "dot version". It is
quite popular in Germany (especially in TV commercials) not to pronounce
the dots: www.rtl.de is r-t-l-d-e - no www, no pauses, no dots.
Similarly, "wetter.com" is pronounced Wettercom.
Still sounds wrong to me.
/Walter
James Silverton
Apr 10, 2013, 8:15:44 AM4/10/13
to
On 4/10/2013 12:59 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 8, 6:50 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> The lower end.
>
>
That proves very difficult to answer in words but I find that I start at
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message <e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 8, 6:50 am, Lewis <g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message <kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> James Silverton <not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> The lower end.
>
>
the upper part of the final crossing and finish with the lower half.
9 8
10 7
11 6
5 12 0 start here
4 1
3 2 13 finish
This looks OK as I type it but I don't know how it will transmit. Any
way, start 0-1-2 and finish 11-12-1-13
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
Robin Bignall
Apr 10, 2013, 11:17:52 AM4/10/13
to
right every time.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)
Garrett Wollman
Apr 10, 2013, 12:08:42 PM4/10/13
to
In article <ask7en...@mid.individual.net>,
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>On 9/04/13 10:23 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> I say "B-B-C DOT C-O DOT U-K".
>
>Have you always been a capital speller?
When writing a radio script, certainly!
>On 9/04/13 10:23 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> I say "B-B-C DOT C-O DOT U-K".
>
>Have you always been a capital speller?
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Walter P. Zähl
Apr 10, 2013, 12:48:26 PM4/10/13
to
I'm right-handed and write the ampersand in the opposite way, starting at
13 and ending at 0.
Then again, people in Holland are taught to write the digit 8 starting in
the middle, drawing first the upper and then the lower circle (using your
picture, this would be the sequence 12 down to 1), while in Germany we
start at the top (9,10, 11, 12, 1...8).
/Walter
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Apr 10, 2013, 12:53:12 PM4/10/13
to
mess can result.
Katy Jennison
Apr 10, 2013, 1:15:47 PM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/2013 00:45, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message<e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 8, 6:50� am, Lewis<g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message<kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> � James Silverton<not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> On 9 Apr 2013 15:36:42 -0700, R H Draney<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> Lewis filted:
>>>
>>> In message<e9675d89-842f-4ad3...@b20g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
>>> Jerry Friedman<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 8, 6:50� am, Lewis<g.kr...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message<kjud9u$6k...@dont-email.me>
>>>>> � James Silverton<not.jim.silver...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another, perhaps OT, observation: when I have occasion to hand write a
>>>>>> "slash" or "forward slash" I start at the top and my hand moves backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who doesn't?
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but I've seen people start 5's and even 2's at the
>>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> Hmm. I start bs ds ts ls hs and anything else I can think of that has an
>>> ascender at the top, including both slashes. I started doing this about
>>> 8th grade when I decide to make a series of drastic changes to my
>>> handwriting.
>>
>> Open question to anyone who cares to answer: which end of the ampersand do you
>> start at?...r
>
> I start at the beginning end, not the ending end.
>
> The end I start at is above the end I finish at.
>
> In others words, I finish at the end next to the copyright mark in this
> image:
> http://www.craigoldham.co.uk/files/ampersand.jpg
>
I do it the opposite way - starting at the bottom right and finishing
>
> The end I start at is above the end I finish at.
>
> In others words, I finish at the end next to the copyright mark in this
> image:
> http://www.craigoldham.co.uk/files/ampersand.jpg
>
middle right.
--
Katy Jennison
Nick Spalding
Apr 10, 2013, 1:23:07 PM4/10/13
to
Katy Jennison wrote, in <kk46o3$aj8$2...@news.albasani.net>
on Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:15:47 +0100:
So do I, but I had to try it before I knew that!
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
on Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:15:47 +0100:
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Steve Hayes
Apr 10, 2013, 1:43:11 PM4/10/13
to
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