U.S. slang dictionary on-line?
mrb
cars (about 3.5 cm. X 8 cm.). "Matchbox" is the brand name
of the toy.
mrb
In article <3dcI3.28182$ei1....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>,
"Mike West" <n...@home.com> wrote:
> I've checked the a.u.e FAQ, the Bucknell site, the
> Onelook site, and
> followed sundry links, but I cannot find a
> comprehensive dictionary of
> American slang on-line.
> Any further suggestions?
> Failing that, do any archivists of slang have
> information about the
> colloquial usage of the word "matchbox" for things
> other than boxes meant to
> contain matches?
> Thanks,
> Mike
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Mike West
Donna Richoux
> I've checked the a.u.e FAQ, the Bucknell site, the Onelook site, and
> followed sundry links, but I cannot find a comprehensive dictionary of
> American slang on-line.
You're right, there isn't much. You probably found the Rap dictionary
and the Jargon (computer) file.
>
> Any further suggestions?
I suggest you buy a book (or look in a library). I like the Random House
Historical Dictionay of American Slang because of its emphasis on
etymology and dated citations, but there are cheaper and more practical
ones (aimed at foreign users of English) that stick to definitions.
>
> Failing that, do any archivists of slang have information about the
> colloquial usage of the word "matchbox" for things other than boxes meant to
> contain matches?
There's nothing in RHHDAS or in "The Pocket Dictionary of American
Slang." What leads you to believe that it *is* American slang?
All I can think of is Ringo Starr singing something like, "Standing on
the corner, matchbox holding my clothes." True, the early Beatles sang
mostly US songs. I figured it was sort of a nonce phrase or maybe an
obscure regional expression, meaning "I have so few clothes (i.e. none),
they could fit in a matchbox."
Now, "box" has a whole slew of slang meanings, according to RHHDAS -
sexual, anatomical, nautical, prison, musical, etc.
Best --- Donna Richoux
Brian J Goggin
>I've checked the a.u.e FAQ, the Bucknell site, the Onelook site, and
>followed sundry links, but I cannot find a comprehensive dictionary of
>American slang on-line.
>
>Any further suggestions?
>
>Failing that, do any archivists of slang have information about the
>colloquial usage of the word "matchbox" for things other than boxes meant to
>contain matches?
I don't know what sense or senses you have in mind. Paul Dickson's
*Slang* (Pocket Books, 1998, 0-671-54920-0) gives these senses:
===under *countercultural slang*=====
*matchbox.* A small quantity of marijuana, originally the amount that
would fit inside a matchbox.
===under *the drug trade*=====
*matchbox.* One-quarter ounce of marijuana or six marijuana
cigarettes.
===under *fantasy, future, science fiction, cyberpunk*=====
*matchbox.* (cyberpunk) A sleep cube or coffin.
===ends=====
bjg
Mike West
Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1dyw5ad.16q...@p156.hlm.euronet.nl...
>
> There's nothing in RHHDAS or in "The Pocket Dictionary of American
> Slang." What leads you to believe that it *is* American slang?
>
> All I can think of is Ringo Starr singing something like, "Standing on
> the corner, matchbox holding my clothes." True, the early Beatles sang
> mostly US songs. I figured it was sort of a nonce phrase or maybe an
> obscure regional expression, meaning "I have so few clothes (i.e. none),
> they could fit in a matchbox."
Thank you, Donna. That is precisely the usage I am looking for. Similar
references appear in a Billie Holiday song, and, I have been told, in a song
by Sam Cook.
I have been trying to work out whether the reference is metaphorical, as you
suggest, or whether "matchbox" might have been used to refer to a small,
cheap suitcase.
Thanks again,
Mike
Mike West
Brian J Goggin <b...@wordwrights.ie> wrote in message
news:3e3xN1DgBmW7GN...@4ax.com...
>
> I don't know what sense or senses you have in mind. Paul Dickson's
> *Slang* (Pocket Books, 1998, 0-671-54920-0) gives these senses:
>
> ===under *countercultural slang*=====
>
> *matchbox.* A small quantity of marijuana, originally the amount that
> would fit inside a matchbox.
>
> ===under *the drug trade*=====
>
> *matchbox.* One-quarter ounce of marijuana or six marijuana
> cigarettes.
>
> ===under *fantasy, future, science fiction, cyberpunk*=====
>
> *matchbox.* (cyberpunk) A sleep cube or coffin.
>
> ===ends=====
>
> bjg
>
I had already spotted those, but thanks for your efforts.
Mike
Mike West
mrb <mrb4NO...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2750ac20...@usw-ex0108-059.remarq.com...
> Here in the Midwest U.S., "Matchboxes" are also tiny toy
> cars (about 3.5 cm. X 8 cm.). "Matchbox" is the brand name
> of the toy.
Good one --- but not the one I was hoping to find.
Thanks.
Mike
Orne Batmagoo
> Mike West <n...@home.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Failing that, do any archivists of slang have information about the
>> colloquial usage of the word "matchbox" for things other than boxes meant to
>> contain matches?
I'm not an archivist of slang, but I've heard some of it. In the sixties, a
"matchbox" was a specific quantity of marijuana. Like a "lid", only smaller.
> All I can think of is Ringo Starr singing something like, "Standing on
> the corner, matchbox holding my clothes." True, the early Beatles sang
> mostly US songs. I figured it was sort of a nonce phrase or maybe an
> obscure regional expression, meaning "I have so few clothes (i.e. none),
> they could fit in a matchbox."
The Beatles' version is a cover of Carl Perkins' 1957 rockabilly hit.
(Perkins is the guy who was going to be Elvis, but was in a car wreck on
his way to the Ed Sullivan show; Elvis got the job.) The first line is,
"Well, I'm sitting here wondering would a matchbox hold my clothes?"
I'm not sure how Ringo sings it, but in 1964, he undoubtedly knew the drug-
related slang meaning. Perkins may well have known it, too, if it was already
in use in 1957.
In article <R7oI3.10322$q8.3...@newscene.newscene.com>, Mike West writes:
> Thank you, Donna. That is precisely the usage I am looking for. Similar
> references appear in a Billie Holiday song, and, I have been told, in a song
> by Sam Cook.
Cooke. Tragically and mysteriously murdered at the height of his career.
If Billie Holiday used a drug-sense "matchbox" then it has been around long
enough that Carl Perkins could also have been aware of that connotation.
--
Orne Batmagoo
Donna Richoux
>
> I'm not an archivist of slang, but I've heard some of it. In the sixties, a
> "matchbox" was a specific quantity of marijuana. Like a "lid", only smaller.
[I, Donna Richoux, had written:]
> > All I can think of is Ringo Starr singing something like, "Standing on
> > the corner, matchbox holding my clothes." True, the early Beatles sang
> > mostly US songs. I figured it was sort of a nonce phrase or maybe an
> > obscure regional expression, meaning "I have so few clothes (i.e. none),
> > they could fit in a matchbox."
>
> The Beatles' version is a cover of Carl Perkins' 1957 rockabilly hit.
> (Perkins is the guy who was going to be Elvis, but was in a car wreck on
> his way to the Ed Sullivan show; Elvis got the job.) The first line is,
> "Well, I'm sitting here wondering would a matchbox hold my clothes?"
>
> I'm not sure how Ringo sings it, but in 1964, he undoubtedly knew the drug-
> related slang meaning. Perkins may well have known it, too, if it was already
> in use in 1957.
The citations Brian gave for the "marijuana" sense did not come with
dates. I'm perfectly willing to believe that in some year or other, a
slang meaning of "matchbox" was "marijuana," but I refuse to believe it
had any relevance to this song. What would "marijuana holding my
clothes" mean?
I dug out my set of the Beatles' "Live at the BBC." Ringo recorded the
song in 1963, and his words were:
I'm sittin here watching, matchbox holdin my clothes (Repeat)
Aint got no matches, sure got a long way to go.
I'm an old poor boy and I ain't got a home (Repeat)
Everything I do turns out mighty wrong.
If you don't want my peaches, honey, please don't shake my tree
(repeat)
I got news for you baby, leave me here in misery.
No, sometimes a matchbox is only a matchbox. The guy is poor, he is
homeless, he's singing the blues, and he doesn't need a suitcase to hold
his clothes cuz he ain't got none.
Shall we argue about what the metaphor of the peach tree signifies?
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Mike West
Orne Batmagoo <r...@darkstar.uwsa.edu> wrote in message
news:7svt2l$gke$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
>> If Billie Holiday used a drug-sense "matchbox" then it has been around
long
> enough that Carl Perkins could also have been aware of that connotation.
> --
> Orne Batmagoo
Thank you for the background info. The source of reference you mention has
been traced (in another newsgroup) back to a Blind Lemon Jefferson recording
made sometime in the 'thirties ("Matchbox Blues"). Carl Perkins and Sam
Cooke covered Jefferson's blues in the 'fifties, and Ringo covered the Carl
Perkins cover of Jefferson. Billie Holiday seems to have appropriated the
line for use in another song she wrote or, more likely, improvised on the
spot.
That usage, by the way, appears to have been unrelated to the marijuana
reference. It seems to have been based on a folk idiom along the lines of "a
matchbox could hold my clothes," meaning "all I've got is what's on my
back." If anyone has more information about the latter usage (not the
marijuana reference), I'd be grateful.
Mike
Melbourne
Mike West
>
> The citations Brian gave for the "marijuana" sense did not come with
> dates. I'm perfectly willing to believe that in some year or other, a
> slang meaning of "matchbox" was "marijuana," but I refuse to believe it
> had any relevance to this song. What would "marijuana holding my
> clothes" mean?
>
Hi Donna,
I think I've struck gold in my quest to make sense of a line in a song by
Billie Holiday. In the song, she laments that her man not only mistreated
her, but "even had the nerve to lay a matchbox on my clothes."
If you're interested in a possible solution, here's a contribution from
another newsgroup.
[Begin quote]
Reading previous posts and this one that ties this thread's "matchbox"
interpretations to grass or luggage, a differently slanted guesss crossed my
mind. This guess is based on a reference to the Deep South past: As a kid
selecting and delivering records to owned-operated juke boxes at clubs, bars
and eating places in some of the poor black communities, I remember some of
the jive language, colorul local slang and other customized communication
used in these areas. Some of it I didn't hear anywhere else. The
prospectively relevant one here placed, variously, a "match," "box of
matches," "some fire," a "light" or a "Zippo" on or next to an object that
was worth little or nothing (and may as well be burned)..... an obvious
gesture of sarcasm for all to see. (As in "not worth the dynamite to blow it
up with," "not worth the match to burn it down with," etc.) I have no idea
if this could have been the lyric intent. I don't know how widely the
expression had meaning. But it is plausible.
[End quote]
Regards,
Mike
Melbourne
Donna Richoux
> I think I've struck gold in my quest to make sense of a line in a song by
> Billie Holiday. In the song, she laments that her man not only mistreated
> her, but "even had the nerve to lay a matchbox on my clothes."
>
> If you're interested in a possible solution, here's a contribution from
> another newsgroup.
>
> [Begin quote]
> Reading previous posts and this one that ties this thread's "matchbox"
> interpretations to grass or luggage, a differently slanted guesss crossed my
> mind. This guess is based on a reference to the Deep South past: As a kid
> selecting and delivering records to owned-operated juke boxes at clubs, bars
> and eating places in some of the poor black communities, I remember some of
> the jive language, colorul local slang and other customized communication
> used in these areas. Some of it I didn't hear anywhere else. The
> prospectively relevant one here placed, variously, a "match," "box of
> matches," "some fire," a "light" or a "Zippo" on or next to an object that
> was worth little or nothing (and may as well be burned)..... an obvious
> gesture of sarcasm for all to see. (As in "not worth the dynamite to blow it
> up with," "not worth the match to burn it down with," etc.) I have no idea
> if this could have been the lyric intent. I don't know how widely the
> expression had meaning. But it is plausible.
> [End quote]
Very interesting. A whole new social custom. I wonder how it could be
verified. There must be books on black folklore. My sense is there is
not much on the Internet, though I'd be happy to be wrong. I see there
are several newsgroups on African-American culture -- are you interested
in checking this out with them?
I suppose I should say that this Billie Holliday line is different from
the Ringo/Carl Perkins one discussed earlier. Matchboxes used to be
common household items so it makes sense there would be more than one
expression about them!
Best --- Donna Richoux
Mike West
>
> Very interesting. A whole new social custom. I wonder how it could be
> verified. There must be books on black folklore. My sense is there is
> not much on the Internet, though I'd be happy to be wrong. I see there
> are several newsgroups on African-American culture -- are you interested
> in checking this out with them?
Yes, I'll see where it leads me.
>
> I suppose I should say that this Billie Holliday line is different from
> the Ringo/Carl Perkins one discussed earlier. Matchboxes used to be
> common household items so it makes sense there would be more than one
> expression about them!
Yes, the "Matchbox Blues" line sung by Jefferson, Perkins, Starr, and others
("Wondering if a matchbox would hold my clothes) seems to have been a
different sense altogether. This is what got me interested. I was having
trouble believing that Billie Holiday's lines ("had the nerve to lay a
matchbox on my clothes / I didn't have so many but had a long, long way to
go") was merely a clumsy borrowing from the earlier song. It is now clear to
me that she was referring to this bit of folklore, and that what she sang
makes perfect sense (if you know about this custom, of course!).
Mike
(Melbourne)
John Holmes
Mike West wrote in message ...
>Yes, the "Matchbox Blues" line sung by Jefferson, Perkins, Starr, and
others
>("Wondering if a matchbox would hold my clothes) seems to have been a
>different sense altogether. This is what got me interested. I was having
>trouble believing that Billie Holiday's lines ("had the nerve to lay a
>matchbox on my clothes / I didn't have so many but had a long, long way
to
>go") was merely a clumsy borrowing from the earlier song. It is now clear
to
>me that she was referring to this bit of folklore, and that what she sang
>makes perfect sense (if you know about this custom, of course!).
Could it be that the usage as in the Holliday version was misunderstood by
someone, who then repeated it in the "matchbox holding my clothes" form?
Does anyone know of a song with a line that could be interpreted in either
sense, something like "a matchbox for my clothes"?
Regards,
John.
Mike West
John Holmes <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
news:7t72va$v3$1...@perki.connect.com.au...
The chronology goes the other way. The "Wondering if a matchbox would hold
my clothes" line predated Billie's song by about twenty years.
I'm on the track of more information and will post results here.
Regards,
Mike
John Holmes
Mike West wrote in message ...
>
>John Holmes <hol...@smart.net.au> wrote in message
>news:7t72va$v3$1...@perki.connect.com.au...
>>
>> Could it be that the usage as in the Holliday version was misunderstood
by
>> someone, who then repeated it in the "matchbox holding my clothes"
form?
>> Does anyone know of a song with a line that could be interpreted in
either
>> sense, something like "a matchbox for my clothes"?
>
>The chronology goes the other way. The "Wondering if a matchbox would
hold
>my clothes" line predated Billie's song by about twenty years.
>
>I'm on the track of more information and will post results here.
Fair enough, but you have to remember that there was a heck of a lot of
blues sung that was never recorded or written down. The real *first* use
of the expression might possibly have been fifty years before any of the
recordings we now have.
I look forward with interest to reading what you discover.
Regards,
John.