How many words do physicians know?
mm
Does anyone know?
I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
100,000 new words, but the more I think about that, the harder it is
to believe. It seem my source was wrong, or I'm recalling it
incorrectly. Or am I?
--
Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years
Dr Peter Young
> How many words do physicians know?
> Does anyone know?
> I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
> 100,000 new words, but the more I think about that, the harder it is
> to believe. It seem my source was wrong, or I'm recalling it
> incorrectly. Or am I?
I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
of which I don't know.
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
mm
<pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>On 25 Nov 2009 mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> How many words do physicians know?
>
>> Does anyone know?
>
>
>
>> I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
>> 100,000 new words, but the more I think about that, the harder it is
>> to believe. It seem my source was wrong, or I'm recalling it
>> incorrectly. Or am I?
>
>I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
>a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
>of which I don't know.
Your sig is gone now but as a doctor, you're just the one to answer
me. Thanks.
Even though he claimed med students (I think he actually said a first
year med student) learned all those words, he might have just looked
at how many words were in a medical dictionary and used that number.
Who would have a better number? Someone who has nothing better to do
than count them?
Maybe what I read was 10,000 words.
What brought this up was: I was visiting a friend tonight in her
hospice room. Her son couldn't remember the long name of the disease
she has. It's cancer of the pancreas, spread to the liver, I think,
but I'm sure it was some longer less-often heard word he couldn't
remember. It has few symptoms and progresses very fast. She's 58 or
in her early sixties.
>With best wishes,
>
>Peter.
--
R H Draney
>
>On 25 Nov 2009 mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> How many words do physicians know?
>
>> Does anyone know?
>
>
>
>> I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
>> 100,000 new words, but the more I think about that, the harder it is
>> to believe. It seem my source was wrong, or I'm recalling it
>> incorrectly. Or am I?
>
>I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
>a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
>of which I don't know.
I know what one of those words must be, because a doctor once got all up in my
grille for using it without a medical degree: "cerumen"....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Odysseus
Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2009 mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
> > 100,000 new words [...]
>
> I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
> a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
> of which I don't know.
A great many of them must have fairly transparent etymologies. I imagine
that once one's become acquainted with a few hundred of the Latin &
Greek roots, and acquired some sense of the most common patterns of
word-formation and semantic application (whether to anatomy,
instruments, or techniques), the marginal burden to one's memory
incurred from learning each new term would get pretty small.
--
Odysseus
franzi
> In article <dacb9abf50.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
> Dr Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 25 Nov 2009 mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
> > > 100,000 new words [...]
>
> > I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
> > a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
> > of which I don't know.
>
> A great many of them must have fairly transparent etymologies. I imagine
> that once one's become acquainted with a few hundred of the Latin &
> Greek roots, and acquired some sense of the most common patterns of
> word-formation and semantic application (whether to anatomy,
> instruments, or techniques), the marginal burden to one's memory
> incurred from learning each new term would get pretty small.
>
have the Latin. It's certainly a stretch to predict what a word like
sartorius actually points to. Students of the inner thigh will have no
problem with gracilis.
--
franzi
Dr Peter Young
> <snip>
I would agree with that. Also, another poster has mentioned the
learning of Latin, and I was one of those who was taught Latin from
ages 7-16; I never learned Greek, but the relatively few roots in
pseudo-Greek terms are indeed fairly easily learned. However, there's
plenty of false etymology in there. One of my favourites is
"bronchgenic carcinoma"; this should mean a carcinoma which produces a
bronchus, rather than a carcinoma arising on a bronchus. Lung cancer,
in plain English. I also have trouble with the word "dilatation"; I
think the verb is "dilate" rather than "dilatate".
Dr Peter Young
> On Nov 26, 2:25�am, Odysseus <odysseus1479...@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote:
>> In article <dacb9abf50.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>,
>> �Dr Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25 Nov 2009 �mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I have a recollection of reading that med students had to learn
>>>> 100,000 new words [...]
>>
>>> I'm sure I didn't have to learn nearly as many words as that. However,
>>> a computer medical dictionary I have contains over 40,000 words, many
>>> of which I don't know.
>>
>> A great many of them must have fairly transparent etymologies. I imagine
>> that once one's become acquainted with a few hundred of the Latin &
>> Greek roots, and acquired some sense of the most common patterns of
>> word-formation and semantic application (whether to anatomy,
>> instruments, or techniques), the marginal burden to one's memory
>> incurred from learning each new term would get pretty small.
>>
> Allegedly there was a time when prospective medical students had to
> have the Latin.
I had to have Latin to get into Cambridge University, but a great many
of us had to learn Latin in those days.
> It's certainly a stretch to predict what a word like sartorius
> actually points to.
"Sator" is a tailor, and tailors used to sit cross-legged on the
floor; this muscle is used in leg-crossing. But you probably knew
that!
> Students of the inner thigh will have no problem with gracilis.
One of my anatomy teachers, known for his robust humour, used to say
of this muscle, "A good line to try with your girlfriend". However, I
think the name merely means "graceful", as it's a long thin muscle.
Skitt
> I would agree with that. Also, another poster has mentioned the
> learning of Latin, and I was one of those who was taught Latin from
> ages 7-16; I never learned Greek, but the relatively few roots in
> pseudo-Greek terms are indeed fairly easily learned. However, there's
> plenty of false etymology in there. One of my favourites is
> "bronchgenic carcinoma"; this should mean a carcinoma which produces a
> bronchus, rather than a carcinoma arising on a bronchus. Lung cancer,
> in plain English. I also have trouble with the word "dilatation"; I
> think the verb is "dilate" rather than "dilatate".
... and then, I've heard "dialate". Often.
--
Skitt (AmE)
franzi
Perhaps it was the opening of a phone number. Or an attempt at
dialysate that was caught short.
Dilate is to dilatation as adapt is to adaptation.
--
franzi
Mike Lyle
>> It's certainly a stretch to predict what a word like sartorius
>> actually points to.
>
> "Sator" is a tailor, and tailors used to sit cross-legged on the
> floor; this muscle is used in leg-crossing. But you probably knew
> that!
Expect James H to pop up any minute now with Sartor Resartus.
>
>> Students of the inner thigh will have no problem with gracilis.
>
> One of my anatomy teachers, known for his robust humour, used to say
> of this muscle, "A good line to try with your girlfriend". However, I
> think the name merely means "graceful", as it's a long thin muscle.
>
Actually, "slender", so even more appropriate.
"Quis multa gracilis..?"
--
Mike.
James Hogg
> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>> On 26 Nov 2009 franzi <et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> [...]>
>>> It's certainly a stretch to predict what a word like sartorius
>>> actually points to.
>> "Sator" is a tailor, and tailors used to sit cross-legged on the
>> floor; this muscle is used in leg-crossing. But you probably knew
>> that!
>
> Expect James H to pop up any minute now with Sartor Resartus.
Peter's tailor has partly worn out his r's:
S A T O R
A R E P O
T E N E T
O P E R A
R O T A S
--
James
Skitt
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>>> It's certainly a stretch to predict what a word like sartorius
>>>> actually points to.
>>> "Sator" is a tailor, and tailors used to sit cross-legged on the
>>> floor; this muscle is used in leg-crossing. But you probably knew
>>> that!
>>
>> Expect James H to pop up any minute now with Sartor Resartus.
>
> Peter's tailor has partly worn out his r's:
>
> S A T O R
> A R E P O
> T E N E T
> O P E R A
> R O T A S
Hah, I knew that one. My dad taught it to me, way back when.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Mike Lyle
Me too, but I confess it didn't reach the surface of my turbid mind at
the time. Now, James, about "Quis multa gracilis?"...
--
Mike.
James Hogg
Dear Mike,
I realise that, like many men before you, you can't help wondering who's
kissing her now (Dad says it's probably some unmarried fellow from
Keynsham!), but my advice to you is to put this obsession out of your
mind forever.
Even if you did win her back, it would probably be a Pyrrhic victory.
There are plenty more fish on the beach.
If all else fails, try
www.samaritans.org/your_emotional_health/about_suicide.aspx
Deirdre
Dr Peter Young
Curses! I never was good at Latin, though I managed to pass the exam
somehow.
Young! Write out 100 times:
Sator means sower, sartor means tailor.
But of course, he would wear out his r's if he sat cross-legged.
Now, abracadabra, anyone?
Dr Peter Young
Could well be. However, it seems to me to be illogical that when a
blood vessel dilates, the process should be dilatation rather than
dilation.
James Hogg
> On 26 Nov 2009 franzi <et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 26, 6:52 pm, "Skitt" <skit...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>>> I would agree with that. Also, another poster has mentioned the
>>>> learning of Latin, and I was one of those who was taught Latin
>>>> from ages 7-16; I never learned Greek, but the relatively few
>>>> roots in pseudo-Greek terms are indeed fairly easily learned.
>>>> However, there's plenty of false etymology in there. One of my
>>>> favourites is "bronchgenic carcinoma"; this should mean a
>>>> carcinoma which produces a bronchus, rather than a carcinoma
>>>> arising on a bronchus. Lung cancer, in plain English. I also
>>>> have trouble with the word "dilatation"; I think the verb is
>>>> "dilate" rather than "dilatate".
>>> ... and then, I've heard "dialate". Often.
>
>> Perhaps it was the opening of a phone number. Or an attempt at
>> dialysate that was caught short.
>
>> Dilate is to dilatation as adapt is to adaptation.
>
> Could well be. However, it seems to me to be illogical that when a
> blood vessel dilates, the process should be dilatation rather than
> dilation.
The same logic produces the form "adaption", once used by Swift and
Dickens, and still commonly seen. "Dilation" is much further on the
road to becoming standard, however.
Unlike most Latin-derived verbs ending in "-ate" (evaporate, decorate,
concentrate, etc.), made by back-formation from past participles in
"-atus" or abstract nouns in "-atio", the verb "dilate" comes from the
adjective "latus" meaning "wide". The suffix "-ation" is therefore added
to the root, which is "dilat-", not just "dil-".
--
James
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On 26 Nov 2009 franzi <et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 26, 6:52�pm, "Skitt" <skit...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>>>> I would agree with that. Also, another poster has mentioned the
>>>> learning of Latin, and I was one of those who was taught Latin from
>>>> ages 7-16; I never learned Greek, but the relatively few roots in
>>>> pseudo-Greek terms are indeed fairly easily learned. However, there's
>>>> plenty of false etymology in there. One of my favourites is
>>>> "bronchgenic carcinoma"; this should mean a carcinoma which produces a
>>>> bronchus, rather than a carcinoma arising on a bronchus. Lung cancer,
>>>> in plain English. I also have trouble with the word "dilatation"; I
>>>> think the verb is "dilate" rather than "dilatate".
>>>
>>> ... and then, I've heard "dialate". �Often.
>
>> Perhaps it was the opening of a phone number. Or an attempt at
>> dialysate that was caught short.
>
>> Dilate is to dilatation as adapt is to adaptation.
>
>Could well be. However, it seems to me to be illogical that when a
>blood vessel dilates, the process should be dilatation rather than
>dilation.
>
I see that "dilation" is used of dilating the uterine cervix, as in
"dilation and curettage".
In the context of abortion the phrases "dilation and extraction" and
"dilation and evacuation" or used although the spelling "dilatation" is
also used. Looking at Google results suggested that the short spelling
was more AmE than BrE but having seen the UK government funded site _NHS
Choices_ which uses "dilation" I'm no longer prepared to hypothesise:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Abortion/Pages/How-is-it-performed.aspx
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Lawler
"Dilatation" is a medical (in my experience, mostly obstetrical)
usage.
While I'm sure many people have picked it up as the standard and
only nominalization of "dilate" (nominalizing 'dilate' is not a
common
social experience for everyone), in my experience "dilation" is much
more commonly used outside of LaMaze class.
Skitt's 'dialate' is probably produced by someone who thinks
they're saying 'dilate'; a resonant /l/ following a diphthong is
already halfway to being syllabic itself, and many people would
emphasize that semisyllable in an important word, especially
one that may have numbers attached, as a matter of clarity.
I used to teach an etymology class for freshmen (see sig),
though it was popular with others, especially the ones
who thought they were going to become doctors. It's not
really very hard -- you don't have to read Plautus or Aristotle,
just start looking words up in a Latin dictionary and find the
English cognates. Much of it is familiar already unconsciously,
so there's always this thrill of recognition, which is fun.
I can personally vouch, though, that doctors *do* know
this terminology (which amounts to maybe 2 or 3 thousand
roots, mm, though I'm not counting English words here)
and use it constantly and fluently. This is the language
(written mostly in canonical abbreviations) that makes up
Medical Records.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/wow
Happy Hogswatch All and may Gods Bless Us, Every One.
(Atheists may request the vegetarian alternative.)
Dr Peter Young
> Dr Peter Young wrote:
>> On 26 Nov 2009 franzi <et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 26, 6:52 pm, "Skitt" <skit...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Dr Peter Young wrote:
[snip]
>> Could well be. However, it seems to me to be illogical that when a
>> blood vessel dilates, the process should be dilatation rather than
>> dilation.
> The same logic produces the form "adaption", once used by Swift and
> Dickens, and still commonly seen. "Dilation" is much further on the
> road to becoming standard, however.
> Unlike most Latin-derived verbs ending in "-ate" (evaporate, decorate,
> concentrate, etc.), made by back-formation from past participles in
> "-atus" or abstract nouns in "-atio", the verb "dilate" comes from the
> adjective "latus" meaning "wide". The suffix "-ation" is therefore added
> to the root, which is "dilat-", not just "dil-".
I have been educated; thanks. Maybe I'll have to revise my prejudice
against dilatation.
Dr Peter Young
wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:52:25 GMT, Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
> wrote:
[snip]
>>Could well be. However, it seems to me to be illogical that when a
>>blood vessel dilates, the process should be dilatation rather than
>>dilation.
>>
> I see that "dilation" is used of dilating the uterine cervix, as in
> "dilation and curettage".
An interesting (to me, at any rate) side-track. That usage is as an
active verb, and dilating of for instance a blood vessel is the use of
a passive form of the verb. Relevant or not to dilation or dilatation,
I have no idea.
> In the context of abortion the phrases "dilation and extraction" and
> "dilation and evacuation" or used although the spelling "dilatation" is
> also used. Looking at Google results suggested that the short spelling
> was more AmE than BrE but having seen the UK government funded site _NHS
> Choices_ which uses "dilation" I'm no longer prepared to hypothesise:
> http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Abortion/Pages/How-is-it-performed.aspx
I would have thought that "dilatation" would have been more
leftpondian. We used to have American trainees in the department in
Gloucester for quite a few years, and they reinforced for me the
British feeling that Americans tend to go in for sesquipedalian
usages.
franzi
And that it is the longest muscle in the human body. File in the
department of useless information for laymen, to be retained until
needed for a quiz answer.
--
franzi
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>
>I would have thought that "dilatation" would have been more
>leftpondian. We used to have American trainees in the department in
>Gloucester for quite a few years, and they reinforced for me the
>British feeling that Americans tend to go in for sesquipedalian
>usages.
That does seem to be a typical pattern.
Jerry Friedman
wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:05:49 GMT, Dr Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >I would have thought that "dilatation" would have been more
> >leftpondian. We used to have American trainees in the department in
> >Gloucester for quite a few years, and they reinforced for me the
> >British feeling that Americans tend to go in for sesquipedalian
> >usages.
>
> That does seem to be a typical pattern.
As does the reverse, as in "orientate" and "racialist".
--
Jerry Friedman
Mike Lyle
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>
>> Me too, but I confess it didn't reach the surface of my turbid mind
>> at the time. Now, James, about "Quis multa gracilis?"...
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> I realise that, like many men before you, you can't help wondering
> who's kissing her now (Dad says it's probably some unmarried fellow
> from Keynsham!), but my advice to you is to put this obsession out of
> your mind forever.
>
> Even if you did win her back, it would probably be a Pyrrhic victory.
> There are plenty more fish on the beach.
>
> If all else fails, try
> www.samaritans.org/your_emotional_health/about_suicide.aspx
>
> Deirdre
Odear. I should never have trusted a bachelor. But I won't burn down his
Sabine farm, and I'll try to follow your advice.
--
Mike.
Steve Hayes
>I would have thought that "dilatation" would have been more
>leftpondian. We used to have American trainees in the department in
>Gloucester for quite a few years, and they reinforced for me the
>British feeling that Americans tend to go in for sesquipedalian
>usages.
Perhaps it is related to "administer" vis-a-vis "administrate", and "comment"
vis-a-vis "commentate".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Nick
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:05:49 GMT, Dr Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I would have thought that "dilatation" would have been more
>>leftpondian. We used to have American trainees in the department in
>>Gloucester for quite a few years, and they reinforced for me the
>>British feeling that Americans tend to go in for sesquipedalian
>>usages.
>
> Perhaps it is related to "administer" vis-a-vis "administrate", and "comment"
> vis-a-vis "commentate".
compartmenting vs compartmentalizationing
--
Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu