Why does English call a "still life" what the Italians call "Natura Morta"
Unknown
Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
Any idea of the origin of the opposite feelings across the pond?
Don Phillipson
news:5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
>
> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
"Still life" is a type of painting characterized by
(1) No people in the picture (no portraits, no figures);
(2) Close-up focus i.e. not a "landscape" or picture
of a building etc.
A century ago these pictorial categories were used to
talk about photographs: but much less nowadays.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Grrr
> "Still life" is a type of painting characterized by
> (1) No people in the picture (no portraits, no figures);
I was thinking about Cezanne the other day. He was the bourgeois' favorite
peasant painter because he hardly puts any nasty peasants in his Provencal
paintings.
Peter Duncanson
<kaci> wrote:
>In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
>Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
>
>What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
A "still life".
From the COED:
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/stilllife?view=uk
a painting or drawing of an arrangement of objects such as
flowers or fruit.
The SOED definition is broader:
Still life. 1695 [f. STILL a. + LIFE sb., after Du.
'stilleven'.] Inanimate objects, such as fruit, flowers, dead
game, vessels, etc., as represented in painting.
>Any idea of the origin of the opposite feelings across the pond?
I wonder whether we should interpret the words as "dead" = "still",
and "nature" = "life".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jürgen Exner
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
Probably from German "Stillleben", literally meaning "quiet life".
> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
> Any idea of the origin of the opposite feelings across the pond?
I don't see much opposite at all. "quiet/still" is quite similar to "dead"
as is "life" to "nature" (most people will not think of rocks or water when
taking about nature. First thought is living things like trees or animals or
live flowers).
jue
Erik A. Mattila
> "cityin...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> wrote:
> ".
>
>>What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
>
Touché, Biljo...and thanks for the morning laugh.
Bert Hyman
news:5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find
> the Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
I think you're making a mistake by simply taking one dictionary
definition of each word of a phrase in another language and expecting
the result to make sense in English.
I can imagine some non-Enlish speaker doing the same with "still
life" and wondering about the non-carbonated aspect of it.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@iphouse.com
John McWilliams
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
>
> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
"Quelques fruits sur une table".
or
"Between customers at the salon".
--
lsmft
Purl Gurl
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
A gathering of gay.
Purl Gurl
gpaleo
Ο "Biljo White" <biljo...@yahoo.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:20070427110414.340$k...@newsreader.com...
>
> "cityin...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> wrote:
> ".
>>
>> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
Exquisite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cyrusthevirus
Now this is an interesting question!
Thanks to cityinvestor for bring me in such a quest.
Our Italian term "Natura morta" comes from French "Nature morte".
A page (in French, of course) with references to the Dutch "stilleven"
can be found on Wikipedia:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_morte
A more detailed document, always in French, is here:
http://www.ac-rouen.fr/pedagogie/equipes/eculturel/dossier_mbar/parcours_nature_morte.pdf
It reports:
"L’expression nature morte apparaît au XVIIIe siècle, sans doute sous
l’influence des cercles académiques; Diderot dans ses /Salons/ parle de
«natures inanimées». Emile Littré dans le /Dictionnaire de la langue
française/ précise: «nature morte, se dit des animaux tués et,
particulièrement, du gibier, dont l’imitation exclusive forme un genre
particulier de peinture. Ce sont des natures mortes.»
Ces natures mortes de gibier, ou trophée de chasse apparaissent vers
1610 chez Snyders et seront célébrées, en France au XVIIe siècle chez
Oudry et Desportes."
Well, I'll try to translate:
"The term nature morte appear in XVIII C., surely under the influence of
the academic clubs; Diderot into his /Salons/ speaks of «inanimate
natures». Emile Littré in the /Dictionnaire de la langue française/
explains: «nature morte, it is told of killed animals and, particularly,
of small game, which exclusive imitation makes a particular painting
style. They are natures mortes.»
These natures mortes with critters, or hunting trophies appear around
1610 by Snyders and they are celebrated in France in XVII C. by Oudty
and Desportes."
The Dutch page of Wikipedia describes a "stilleven" (if I understand
correctly: it is Dutch for me...) like "a work made in studio" based
mainly on colors and tones.
But both on the Dutch and on the English pages there aren't references
to the "Nature Morte" term.
I guess the 1650 Dutch term is the oldest: the French/Italian version
must be more or less a joke about this style, being an oxymoron.
Of course, a photography of a squashed 'dillo on a Texas highway is not
a "still life", since it is not made in a studio: in this case I think
"dead nature" would be more appropriate.
Cyrus
--
I love to be mailed just by smart people:
perl -we 'print "\12\142\145\162\156\141\155\141\100\146".
\165\156\141\144\151\165\155\56\143\157\155\12\12";'
I feel better with Funadium.
ppp
"cityin...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
"morta" means that doesnt have life and that doesnt move and therefore is
"still"
by by from a spaghetti eater.
Gregor Kobelkoff
Et_in_Arcadia_ego
> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori suggests:
The artistic genre of still life was formerly called Vanitas,
Latin for "vanity", because it was thought appropriate for each
such painting to include some kind of symbol of mortality in each picture;
these could be obvious ones like skulls, or subtler ones, like a flower
losing its petals. See the themes associated with the image of the skull
Martin Ambuhl
> "cityin...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> wrote in message
> news:5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
>> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
>>
>> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
> "Still life" is a type of painting characterized by
> (1) No people in the picture (no portraits, no figures);
> (2) Close-up focus i.e. not a "landscape" or picture
> of a building etc.
This distinction might appear to have some leakage in at least one
language (but see below if you care to).
Using my
Qian Suwen _English-Chinese Pinyin Dictionary_ (Mew World Press, Beijing
1998) and
and
_A New English-Chinese Dictionary_, 3rd ed. (Commercial Press, 2002)
I discovered for "still-life" the following, which I checked against
_The Pinyin Chinese_English Dictionary_ (Commercial Press, Hong Kong,
2003) and
John DeFrancis _ABC Chinese-English Comprehensive Dictionary_ (U
Hawai'i, 2003)
静物 jingwu still-life, immobile object
景物 jingwu scenery. landscape
风景 fengjing scenery; landscape; view
景观 jingguan landscape; sight
景色 jingse scenery, view, scene, landscape, lookout, outlook, prospect
The 物 (wu) component of the twp 'jingwu's just means thing, matter,
substance. The two 'jing's (静, 景) differ.
静 (still, quiet, calm) is a 4th tone syllable
景 (view, scenery, scene) is a 3rd tone syllable
There are at least 11 first-tone 'jing's, 6 third-tone ones, 11
fourth-tone ones (let's hear from the bitchers about
phonetic-orthography divergence in English),
景 is derived from 日 (sun) above 京 (an artificial mound, phonetic)
静 is derived from 青 (represents various colors, supposedly of lush
growth) and 争(contend, phonetic).
As with Daniel's 'rare', these words are unrelated.
[newsgroups trimmed to AUE]
John Dean
Just the nice ones.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
OED says:
[f. still a. + life n., after Du. stilleven (in the 17th c. also stilstaand
leven, stilliggend leven). Cf. G. stillleben, in the 18th c. stillliegende
sachen (Zedler 1744).
The Du. expressions have been found only in the sense explained below,
but it is presumed that they were originally applied to representations not
of inanimate objects but of living things portrayed in a state of rest.]
a. Inanimate objects, such as fruits, flowers, dead game, vessels, etc.,
as represented in painting. (For other uses see still a. 5b.) Also fig.
b. A painting of such objects. Pl. still lifes.
Earliest cites:
1695 [R. Graham] Short Acc. Painters in Dryden's Dufresnoy's Art Paint. 277
His peculiar happiness in expressing all sorts of Animals, Fruit, Flowers,
and the Still-life. 1701 Wanley in Phil. Trans. XXV. 2004 In the Still life
indeed, the Eye is quickly deceiv'd. 1706 tr. De Piles' Art Paint. 440
Kneller+did also several Pieces in Still-Life exceedingly well. 1762–71 H.
Walpole Vertue's Anecd. Paint. (1786) III. 19 He painted still-life, oranges
and lemons, plate, damask curtains, cloths of gold, and that medley of
familiar objects that strike the ignorant vulgar.
Donna should be along shortly to give us a clearer idea of what "stilleven"
siginifies in Dutch.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
>>
>> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
arf!
--
John Dean
Oxford
John Dean
This nature has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker ...
--
John Dean
Oxford
Bill K
> "cityinves...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> wrote:
>
> ".
>
>
>
> > What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>
Great one!!! Could also be called Congress
--
Gator Bait
Unknown
>> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
> Parliament
:)
Unknown
1. USA: still + life
2. Germany: still + leben
3. Italian: natura + morta
4. French: nature + morte
5. Chinese: jing + wu
All meaning:
Inanimate objects, such as fruit, flowers, dead game, vessels, etc., as
represented in painting, drawing, or photography.
Thank you all for the fantastic combination of wits to answer a question
that hasn't been asked nor answered previously here AFAIG (as far as I
google).
kaci
Unknown
1. French: nature + morte
2. Italian: natura + morta
3. English: still + life
4. German: still + leben
5. Dutch: still + even
6. Chinese: jing + wu
Definition:
A painting, drawing, photograph, or representation of inanimate objects,
such as fruit, flowers, dead game, vessels, etc.
Karen Alba
Peter Tan
Now that we've dealt with 'still life', do you want to deal with 'life
drawing/painting' (prefereed British term, I think) and 'figure
drawing/painting' (preferred American term, I think).
Peter
Prai Jei
wrote thusly in message <5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>:
Similarly why is a key a closer (Schlüssel) in German but an opener (avain)
in Finnish?
--
Two-colour printing (red/black/blue/green) available
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
John Bean
<pvsto...@zyx-abc.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"cityin...@sbcglobal.net" <kaci> (or somebody else of the same name)
>wrote thusly in message <5%mYh.5953$rO7....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>:
>
>> In looking up the American English meaning of "still life", I find the
>> Italians & French refer to it as "dead nature".
>>
>> What do the British call a photograph of fruits sitting on a table?
>>
>> Any idea of the origin of the opposite feelings across the pond?
>
>Similarly why is a key a closer (Schlüssel) in German but an opener (avain)
>in Finnish?
Is my glass half full or half empty?
Keys are both openers and closers, depending solely on the
viewpoint.
--
John Bean
CDB
I think #5 will turn out to be "stil + leven".
Roland Hutchinson
Also, German screwdrivers are screw-removers, whereas the egalitarian French
are content to turn the screw, without privileging either direction.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Leslie Danks
[...]
> Also, German screwdrivers are screw-removers, whereas the egalitarian
> French are content to turn the screw, without privileging either
> direction.
The word Schraubenzieher (screw remover or screw extractor) is actually
deprecated by the cognoscenti in this neck of the woods. If you want to
gain street cred in an Austrian DIY emporium you have to ask for a
Schraubendreher (screw turner).
--
Les
Peter Moylan
> Also, German screwdrivers are screw-removers, whereas the egalitarian
> French are content to turn the screw, without privileging either
> direction.
That explains a lot. I've been using my screwdrivers both for driving
the screws in and for removing them. Obviously I need to add a German
set to do the job properly.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
Roland Hutchinson
> Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>
>> Also, German screwdrivers are screw-removers, whereas the egalitarian
>> French are content to turn the screw, without privileging either
>> direction.
>
> That explains a lot. I've been using my screwdrivers both for driving
> the screws in and for removing them. Obviously I need to add a German
> set to do the job properly.
You could just trade them in for a French set that goes both ways.
Mike Lyle
"Roland Hutchinson" <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:59ijhkF...@mid.individual.net...
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > Roland Hutchinson wrote:
> >
> >> Also, German screwdrivers are screw-removers, whereas the
egalitarian
> >> French are content to turn the screw, without privileging either
> >> direction.
> >
> > That explains a lot. I've been using my screwdrivers both for
driving
> > the screws in and for removing them. Obviously I need to add a
German
> > set to do the job properly.
>
> You could just trade them in for a French set that goes both ways.
(Irrelevantly, after the date "1622" near the end of this message, a
phrase is introduced with "space hyphen hyphen space", acting as a dash.
I assume it will be treated as a signature by readers which recognise
sig delimiters, but I want to see it happen.)
I remember a few Brit tradesmen precision-minded enough to insist that
the proper word was "turnscrew". The theory was that you don't drive a
screw, and, if you did, you couldn't do it with a "screwdriver". But
"screwdriver" has been current for as long: 1779 in OED, against 1778
for "turnscrew". Perhaps there's another word I don't know for the tool,
or it's just chance that has deprived OED of earlier examples, as I find
"screw" in this context from 1622 -- they must have had the tool then.
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Nick Spalding
on Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:52:44 +0100:
I wonder whether the 1622 screw was more like what we would now call a
coach-bolt, with a square head, and the slotted screw came later.
--
Nick Spalding
Mike Lyle
"Nick Spalding" <spal...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:3m7933llsl67sq0in...@4ax.com...[...]
> >Perhaps there's another word I don't know for the tool,
> > or it's just chance that has deprived OED of earlier examples, as I
find
> > "screw" in this context from 1622 -- they must have had the tool
then.
>
> I wonder whether the 1622 screw was more like what we would now call a
> coach-bolt, with a square head, and the slotted screw came later.
> --
Could be. The 1622 quotation referred to some sort of firearm, but it
isn't clear, to me at least, exactly what the screws are doing. I think
they're probably holding the lock on, or together, or both, so I wonder
if that would tell an expert what kind they were likely to be.
John Dean
For you all love the screw-guns -- the screw-guns they all love you!
So when we call round with a few guns,
o' course you will know what to do -- hoo! hoo!
But ...
Why should I write this down, that's riveted,
Screw'd to my memory?
--
John "hoo hoo!" Dean
Oxford
Paul Wolff
Germanisches Museum at Nuremberg with slotted screws, either dome-headed
or domed-disc headed, fixing the lock to the stock. It's been dated to
'about 1530' according to the author, who also says it's Italian.
Presumably 'Germanisch' means Germanic and is independent of state
borders. The unslotted square-headed screw was of course also known
back then (make your own Prussian joke here).
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!