Excepted or except?
Rajesh Sharma
This is my first post to this forum. Please do not flame me if this subject
was discussed threadbare a few days ago.
I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
Is there any difference in meaning if the sign were made to read "No entry
except buses" or "No entry. Except Buses " (each sentence in a different
line) or
perhaps "Buses only" ?
Prior to coming to Canada I had never used "except" this way. Is it an
accepted usage, not necessarily on road signs, in other English speaking
countries?
Thanks
Fi
Hi and welcome to the newsgroup.
I think that excepted is mainly used in American usage so I can't
really comment on that. As for except, here in England the sign would
probably read "No entry except for buses" but even more likely would be
"Buses only".
Hope that helps,
Fi
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Stan Brown
>This is my first post to this forum. Please do not flame me if this subject
>was discussed threadbare a few days ago.
As it happens, it was not. You can avoid that possibility in future
questions by searching dejanews -- and, of course, reading the FAQ.
>I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
>excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
>Is there any difference in meaning if the sign were made to read "No entry
>except buses" or "No entry. Except Buses " (each sentence in a different
>line) or
>perhaps "Buses only" ?
"Except" is a preposition but also a verb. As a verb, it means to
exclude, to take out or leave out. So "No entry, buses excepted" means
"No entry is allowed, but buses are left out of that rule." It's standard
English in the US and (from your example) Canada.
"No entry. Except buses." and "No entry. Buses excepted." would both be
wrongly punctuated. The second "sentence" in each case can't really stand
on its own as a sentence.
"Buses only" would certainly be the best. Particularly in road signs,
brevity is at a premium when people are whizzing along at 60 mph or 100
km/h. There may be some reason in law why the phrase "No entry" must
appear on the sign.
As you observe, you could also say "No entry except buses". "No entry
except for buses" would be fine, and in fact sounds a bit better to my
ears -- though not as good as "Buses only".
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/
alt.usage.English intro and FAQs: http://go.to/aue
WWWebster online dictionary: http://www.m-w.com/mw/netdict.htm
more FAQs: http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/faqget.htm
Fi
usually when something derogatory has been said, which was not intended
to be directed at people around us. I think though, that this is a
rather formal and perhaps old saying.
Perhaps someone else can clarify this?
N.Mitchum
-----
> I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
> excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
> Is there any difference in meaning if the sign were made to read "No entry
> except buses" or "No entry. Except Buses " (each sentence in a different
> line) or perhaps "Buses only" ?
>.....
You forget that "except" is also a verb, which is how it's been
used on your signs. In full, the second line means "Buses are
excepted from this ban."
The notice was designed with a purpose. First of all to warn
drivers (with a categorical "No entry") that they may not enter
where the sign is posted. With this stern warning delivered, it
then tells bus drivers that the prohibition does not include them.
A plain "Buses only" does not accomplish this purpose; it does not
speak directly to all other drivers, the people it really
concerns.
----NM
Benjamin Lukoff
NO ENTRY
EXCEPT BUSES
is common in Seattle.
Fi <fiNOf...@snuggly.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:1c31fd54...@usw-ex0102-012.remarq.com...
> Rajesh,
>
> Hi and welcome to the newsgroup.
>
> I think that excepted is mainly used in American usage so I can't
> really comment on that. As for except, here in England the sign would
> probably read "No entry except for buses" but even more likely would be
> "Buses only".
>
> Hope that helps,
>
Robert Lieblich
>
> Hi,
> This is my first post to this forum. Please do not flame me if this subject
> was discussed threadbare a few days ago.
>
> excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
> Is there any difference in meaning if the sign were made to read "No entry
> except buses" or "No entry. Except Buses " (each sentence in a different
> line) or
> perhaps "Buses only" ?
>
> accepted usage, not necessarily on road signs, in other English speaking
> countries?
Others have commented, and I agree, that the sign makes sense as
written. Rewriting it could sew confusion. You say you want an example
of confusion? Okay -- a sign at curbside of a street adjoining the
County Courthouse in Arlington County, Virginia:
No Parking
Except Police Cars
Saturdays and Sundays
Does this mean that parking is allowed only on Saturdays and Sundays,
and then only of police vehicles? Or does it mean that on Saturdays and
Sundays only police vehicles may park, but anyone may park on other
days? The logic of the situation suggests the former, but nothing in
the language of the sign invalidates the latter.
This is a real sign. I park in the lot across the street when I go to
the courthouse. To my knowledge, Arlington County judges have never
heard of AUE.
Bob Lieblich
Mike Barnes
>Hi,
>This is my first post to this forum. Please do not flame me if this subject
>was discussed threadbare a few days ago.
>
>I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
>excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
And does each line really end with a full stop?
>Is there any difference in meaning if the sign were made to read "No entry
>except buses" or "No entry. Except Buses " (each sentence in a different
>line) or
>perhaps "Buses only" ?
I think the meaning is unambiguous to any sensible road user. In my
view "BUSES ONLY" is clearest to an English speaker.
>Prior to coming to Canada I had never used "except" this way. Is it an
>accepted usage, not necessarily on road signs, in other English speaking
>countries?
In Britain the "NO ENTRY" sign would be symbolic - a red disc with a
white horizontal stripe, no words - the same as in the rest of Europe.
There would be a small black-on-white rectangular sign underneath saying
"EXCEPT BUSES".
This format (textless sign with a text qualifier) does seem a little odd
at first but you soon get used to it.
--
Mike Barnes
Skitt
lieb...@erols.com wrote:
> You say you want an example
> of confusion? Okay -- a sign at curbside of a street adjoining the
> County Courthouse in Arlington County, Virginia:
>
> No Parking
> Except Police Cars
> Saturdays and Sundays
>
> Does this mean that parking is allowed only on Saturdays and Sundays,
> and then only of police vehicles? Or does it mean that on Saturdays
> and Sundays only police vehicles may park, but anyone may park on
> other days? The logic of the situation suggests the former, but
> nothing in the language of the sign invalidates the latter.
>
> This is a real sign.
It could be interpreted as parking is always allowed for police cars,
and in addition, everybody on Saturdays and Sundays. I'd think *that*
was the intent -- a logically sound one.
--
Skitt (on Florida's Space Coast) http://i.am/skitt/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rajesh Sharma
>In alt.usage.english, Rajesh Sharma <rajesh.sha...@rsc.com> wrote
>>Hi,
>>This is my first post to this forum. Please do not flame me if this
subject
>>was discussed threadbare a few days ago.
>>
>>I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
>>excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
>
>And does each line really end with a full stop?
No, it does not.
K. Edgcombe
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>written. Rewriting it could sew confusion.
Which would no doubt lead to crotchety responses from people with knitted
brows.
Sorry, Bob.
Katy
Rajesh Sharma
>Rajesh Sharma wrote:
>-----
>> I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
>> excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
>
>used on your signs. In full, the second line means "Buses are
>excepted from this ban."
>
sentences?
"Present company excluded" - "Present company excepted"
"Buses are excluded from this ban" - "Buses are excepted from this ban."
Thanks
N.Mitchum
-----
> Does "excluded" denote anything different in the following two pairs of
> sentences?
>
> "Present company excluded" - "Present company excepted"
> "Buses are excluded from this ban" - "Buses are excepted from this ban."
I think so. The first pair are more or less set phrases. They
both mean "This doesn't refer to you." Little difference.
In the second pair "excepted" may be preferable because it means
that an exception has been made for buses: all vehicles are
prohibited, but buses are excepted from this prohibition. To
"exclude" the buses is slightly different, and should not be used
here if only because we are already talking about the "exclusion"
(prohibition) of all other vehicles.
----NM
Richard Fontana
>N.Mitchum wrote in message <384EBE...@lafn.org>...
>>Rajesh Sharma wrote:
>>-----
>>> I live in Canada. There are road signs here that say "No entry. Buses
>>> excepted." (Each sentence in its own line)
>>
>>You forget that "except" is also a verb, which is how it's been
>>excepted from this ban."
>>
>Does "excluded" denote anything different in the following two pairs of
>sentences?
>
>"Present company excluded" - "Present company excepted"
"Present company excepted" is a set phrase, always jocular I think,
meaning "Not including [e.g., speaking about] the persons who are now
present". Therefore, there's no point in comparing it to the other
form.
>"Buses are excluded from this ban" - "Buses are excepted from this ban."
To say that something is "excluded" from a ban comes close to
making no sense, because usually someone is excluded from something
that person wants to have or experience. To say that something is
"excepted" from a ban reaches the point of making no sense, whatever
some telegraphically worded road signs might say in some places. I think
"exempt" is the most appropriate word: Buses are exempt[ed] from this
ban. Or: Buses are not subject to this ban.
Richard
Robert Lieblich
>
> Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >written. Rewriting it could sew confusion.
>
> Which would no doubt lead to crotchety responses from people with knitted
> brows.
>
> Sorry, Bob.
In the spirit of a recent and well-known arrival, I insist that my
spelling was correct. I had specifically in mind the patchwork quilt,
whose pattern is most confusing. Surely anyone not a gopue would be
capable of ascertaining this with the barest minimum of cogitation.
Bullshitimus perpetuus est.
[Nice catch, Katy.]
Bob
Mark Brader
> In Britain the "NO ENTRY" sign would be symbolic - a red disc with a
> white horizontal stripe, no words - the same as in the rest of Europe.
This particular European sign has also been adopted in Ontario and I believe
also in other Canadian provinces. Signs with NO ENTRY or DO NOT ENTER in
words tend to be unofficial ones, in places like parking lots, though of
course there may still be a few around on public roads. And maybe it's
different where Rajesh Sharma lives.
> There would be a small black-on-white rectangular sign underneath saying
> "EXCEPT BUSES".
>
> This format (textless sign with a text qualifier) does seem a little odd
> at first but you soon get used to it.
Same here, except that the secondary sign would say BUSES EXCEPTED rather
than EXCEPT BUSES.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Domine, defende nos
m...@vex.net | Contra hos motores bos!" -- A. D. Godley
My text in this article is in the public domain.