What is this poem about?
Troy Steadman
words wrong: "The silver white, red is the gold" doesn't convey any
obvious revelation. It is immortalised in Peter Warlock's
accompaniment:
The Maiden's Song
The maidens came when I was in my mother's bower
I had all that I would,
The bailey beareth the bell away
A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
The silver white, red is the gold,
The robes they lay in fold.
The bailey beareth the bell away,
A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
And through the glass window there shines the sun,
How should I love and I so young?
The bailey beareth the bell away,
A lily, a lily, a rose I lay.
Here's another slightly different version:
CDB
"Troy Steadman" <troyst...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1122213340.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What an interesting song. I think it was a song first, don't you?
_The Oxford Book of English Verse_ calls it "Bridal Morning", and
gives the refrain in the second and third stanzas as "The bailey
beareth the lull away".
Random thoughts:
The maidens came in bridal procession to take me from my mother, and I
had my greatest wish(?) had as much as I could bear(?)
The COD says "beareth the bell away" meant "takes the prize". The
bailey could be the representative of the lord she is marrying, whose
prize she both has and is. He has taken the prize and is bearing it
to his master.
A lily is purity or virginity, a rose is love or passion. I lay on
the bridal bed(?) before my wedding(?) the incarnation of purity and
love, between virginity and passion.
The COD doesn't give a verb "to lay" meaning "to sing", but I wonder.
The colours of gold and silver were conventionally red and white,
which again stand for passion and purity. Silver and gold are also
the riches of her new husband. Love is more precious than purity?
Marriage is more profitable than virginity?
Dunno about any secondary meaning for the robes. Is "lay" present
tense (attendants are laying them into a chest folded) or past tense
(the robes lay folded, perhaps by the marriage bed)?
The glass window, in the 15th century, also meant she was marrying
into wealth. But the sun shines through the window without warming
it. She is marrying too young to feel passion, as she says.
A lull could be a calming drink. Was she tranquillized? Life was
hard in those days, even for the nobility. A young girl would be
married for very practical reasons, and her consent wouldn't much
enter into the matter.
The first two stanzas end "a lily, a rose, a rose...", the last " a
lily, a lily, a rose...". Was it easier for her to feel love
emotionally, in her mother's bower, than physically in her husband's
arms?
A lovely poem, and perhaps rather tragic, that I had somehow missed.
Thank you.
Pat Durkin
"CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:EWQEe.9214$EP2....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
I had a rather bawdy interpretation, until I reread the title. From another
view (I think), the white and the red, the lily and the rose, are indicative
of something precious: a virgin and her deflowering. I think in some gypsy
tales the evidence of the virginal blood is referred to as roses, and in
some areas (way back in the 16th and 17th centuries and earlier) gypsy or
not, the bloodied sheet was flaunted from the window, whether by the ladies
in waiting or other female relatives.
The bailey's bell might be tantamount to his bearing witness to and
announcing the deflowering (in person? well, sometimes that was done, even
to the point of the father witnessing that his daughter was a virgin, just
in case the bridegroom wanted to make some claim for an annulment.)
So whether the maiden is regretting the loss of her youth for the silver and
gold, or daydreaming and wondering when she would "love", and regretting
being too young.
Still more physical than the interpretation of CDB.
Pat Durkin
"Pat Durkin" <durk...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:3yREe.6489$_%4.3...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "CDB" <unbe...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
> news:EWQEe.9214$EP2....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> >
> > "Troy Steadman" <troyst...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1122213340.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > Does anyone know what this poem means? For years I thought I had the
> > > words wrong: "The silver white, red is the gold" doesn't convey any
> > > obvious revelation. It is immortalised in Peter Warlock's
> > > accompaniment:
> > >
> > > The Maiden's Song
> > >
> > > The maidens came when I was in my mother's bower
> > > I had all that I would,
She is a daughter of wealth and ease.
> > >
> > > The bailey beareth the bell away
> > > A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
Another thought: it's as if the bailey were announcing the banns. (M-W
Online:
Main Entry: bai·liff
Etymology: Middle English baillif, bailie, from Old French baillif, from
bail custody, jurisdiction -- more at BAIL
1 a : an official employed by a British sheriff to serve writs and make
arrests and executions b : a minor officer of some U.S. courts usually
serving as a messenger or usher
2 chiefly British : one who manages an estate or farm )
> > >
> > > The silver white, red is the gold,
> > > The robes they lay in fold.
The robes (bedclothes) have not been used, apparently, nor taken away for
laundering, so I will incline to the latter of my two interpretations. ". .
.daydreaming and wondering when she would "love", and regretting
being too young."
> > > The bailey beareth the bell away,
> > > A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
> > >
> > > And through the glass window there shines the sun,
> > > How should I love and I so young?
>
> > > The bailey beareth the bell away,
> > > A lily, a lily, a rose I lay.
> > >
> > Random thoughts:
> >
> > The maidens came in bridal procession to take me from my mother, and I
> > had my greatest wish(?) had as much as I could bear(?)
> >
> > The COD says "beareth the bell away" meant "takes the prize". The
> > bailey could be the representative of the lord she is marrying, whose
> > prize she both has and is. He has taken the prize and is bearing it
> > to his master.
> >
> > A lily is purity or virginity, a rose is love or passion. I lay on
> > the bridal bed(?) before my wedding(?) the incarnation of purity and
> > love, between virginity and passion.
> >
> > The COD doesn't give a verb "to lay" meaning "to sing", but I wonder.
> >
As I lay dying?
Main Entry: 1lie
Pronunciation: 'lI
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): lay ; lain ; ly·ing
CDB
In deadly pain, and sweetest sympathy. No, but; I meant a verbing of
the noun "lay". None of these possibilities rules out, or possibly
rule out, any of the others, naturally. I agree entirely with your
physical interpretation of the white and red. About the bailey
announcing the banns: there is a definition of "bear the bell" meaning
to go first (possibly in a procession) -- but how do you square that
with "away"?
For COD I should have written SOD. It's longer, of course.
Don Phillipson
> > > > The Maiden's Song
> > > > . . .
> > > > The bailey beareth the bell away
> > > > A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
Consider the alternative . . .
The bailey in this poem may be a unique individual,
not merely an office-holder.
Perhaps the bailey won the prize (of this girl's
virginity.) Otherwise the one bearing the bell
away might have been the blacksmith, the
thatcher, the sexton, etc. etc (and no knowledge
of baileys' duties or forges etc. would tell us
anything extra about the poem.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
John Dean
Or I had all that I asked for.
>
> The COD says "beareth the bell away" meant "takes the prize". The
> bailey could be the representative of the lord she is marrying, whose
> prize she both has and is. He has taken the prize and is bearing it
> to his master.
Or the woman conceived a child before wedlock and has given birth on her
bridal morning and the bailiff has taken the child? (Far fetched).
>
> A lily is purity or virginity, a rose is love or passion. I lay on
> the bridal bed(?) before my wedding(?) the incarnation of purity and
> love, between virginity and passion.
>
> The COD doesn't give a verb "to lay" meaning "to sing", but I wonder.
I can't see it in the OED but the entry for "lay" is humongous and would
take more time to analyse than I have available.
If you want some other meanings of "lay" to try to fit into the jigsaw
puzzle here's a sampling from OED:
. To ‘bring to bed’ of a child; to deliver (a mother). Obs. exc.
dial. †Also refl. said of the mother. (Cf. 53c.)
c1460 Towneley Myst. xiii. 520 And gyll, my wyfe, rose nott here syn
she lade hir. ... 1669 Plymouth Col. Rec. (1856) V. 14, I went to her
father Winters house+as I was informed of her being laid;
To prevent (a spirit) from ‘walking’. Often in fig. context.
1592 Shakes. Rom. & Jul. ii. i. 26 To raise a spirit in his Mistresse
circle,+letting it stand Till she had laid it, and coniured it downe.
To deposit in the grave; to bury. Only with adv. or phrase indicating
the place. to lay one's bones: to be buried (in a specified place).
1697 Dryden Æneis xi. 310 Part, in the Places where they fell, are
laid.
. To put down or deposit as a wager; to stake, bet, or wager (a sum,
one's head, life, etc.). Also to lay a wager.
1573 New Custom i. ii. Bj, Harke Simplicitie hee is some preacher I
wyll lay my gowne.
. To compare with. Obs.
1577 H. I. tr. Bullinger's Decades ii. viii. 192 They conferre the
one with the other & lay them with the lawe.
> The colours of gold and silver were conventionally red and white,
> which again stand for passion and purity. Silver and gold are also
> the riches of her new husband. Love is more precious than purity?
> Marriage is more profitable than virginity?
>
> Dunno about any secondary meaning for the robes. Is "lay" present
> tense (attendants are laying them into a chest folded) or past tense
> (the robes lay folded, perhaps by the marriage bed)?
OED again: "†In early poetic use, in fold, of rich fold, is a formula
often introduced with little meaning in descriptions of costly
garments."
>
> The glass window, in the 15th century, also meant she was marrying
> into wealth. But the sun shines through the window without warming
> it. She is marrying too young to feel passion, as she says.
Or the window is in her mother's bower.
>
>
> The first two stanzas end "a lily, a rose, a rose...", the last " a
> lily, a lily, a rose...". Was it easier for her to feel love
> emotionally, in her mother's bower, than physically in her husband's
> arms?
>
Or the contrast between virginity and the pierced hymen.
We had a brief discussion not long ago of an Emily Dickinson poem where
her suitor was as likely to be Death as a human. The young woman here
might be seeing Death as her bridegroom - whence lily = death.
Or, even more obscure and improbable, she is entering a novitiate.
But, certainly, a haunting poem and new to me, too.
--
John Dean
Oxford
CDB
"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote in message
news:dc1a1c$26u$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
I like the idea of "lay" as "compare" -- the lily laid against the
rose.
>> The colours of gold and silver were conventionally red and white,
>> which again stand for passion and purity. Silver and gold are also
>> the riches of her new husband. Love is more precious than purity?
>> Marriage is more profitable than virginity?
It occurs to me that red also stood for martyrdom.
>> Dunno about any secondary meaning for the robes. Is "lay" present
>> tense (attendants are laying them into a chest folded) or past
>> tense
>> (the robes lay folded, perhaps by the marriage bed)?
>
> OED again: "?In early poetic use, in fold, of rich fold, is a
> formula
> often introduced with little meaning in descriptions of costly
> garments."
>
>>
>> The glass window, in the 15th century, also meant she was marrying
>> into wealth. But the sun shines through the window without warming
>> it. She is marrying too young to feel passion, as she says.
>
> Or the window is in her mother's bower.
True. Money on both sides is more likely anyway.
>> The first two stanzas end "a lily, a rose, a rose...", the last " a
>> lily, a lily, a rose...". Was it easier for her to feel love
>> emotionally, in her mother's bower, than physically in her
>> husband's
>> arms?
>>
> Or the contrast between virginity and the pierced hymen.
>
> We had a brief discussion not long ago of an Emily Dickinson poem
> where
> her suitor was as likely to be Death as a human. The young woman
> here
> might be seeing Death as her bridegroom - whence lily = death.
> Or, even more obscure and improbable, she is entering a novitiate.
That might explain the bailey.
Matthew Lubin
Sincerely,
Matthew Lubin
Peter T. Daniels
> Thank you for putting a lot of thought into these interpretations. But what does "COD," which you cite as a reference for "beareth the bell away," stand for?
only one who still writes here -- and he happens to be the one who
cited the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> Thank you for putting a lot of thought into these interpretations. But
> what does "COD," which you cite as a reference for "beareth the bell
> away," stand for?
in this long-forgotten thread are no longer around, but if I may hazard
a guess I suggest that "COD" stands for the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
> On Sunday, July 24, 2005 at 9:55:40 AM UTC-4, Troy Steadman wrote:
>> Does anyone know what this poem means? For years I thought I had the
>> words wrong: "The silver white, red is the gold" doesn't convey any
>> obvious revelation. It is immortalised in Peter Warlock's
>> accompaniment:
>> The Maiden's Song
>> The maidens came when I was in my mother's bower
>> I had all that I would,
>> The bailey beareth the bell away
>> A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
>> The silver white, red is the gold,
>> The robes they lay in fold.
>> The bailey beareth the bell away,
>> A lily, a rose, a rose I lay.
>> And through the glass window there shines the sun,
>> How should I love and I so young?
>> The bailey beareth the bell away,
>> A lily, a lily, a rose I lay.
>>
>> Here's another slightly different version:
>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/poems/poem.asp?DID=110
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
spains...@gmail.com
on we have a much wider YouTube to draw on - and this seems like
a pleasant (if tin-eared) rendition:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx6Yl2Yk14A>