Geyser (was: Re: Could a 1934 built council house have had electricity when built?]

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:47:03 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <ghjqk8tpf0u7ssifo...@4ax.com>, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:28:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Are you _sure_ it was a TV, not a large radio (wireless)?
>>>Would you explain another word for those of us in America.
>>>
>>>What is a geyser? As used in a previous poster's story.
>>
>>A device that heats the water you use to take a bath or a show4er.
>>
>>
>The main difference is that (it is usually wall-mounted and) it tends to
>operate on-demand, i. e. it heats the water directly before you use it -
>thus requiring quite a powerful heater (gas or electric), but only on
>while the tap's running - as opposed to the conventional system which is
>part of (though usually independently controlled, both thermostat and
>timing) the central heating system, which maintains a tank of hot water
>for the household. The geyser is for the tap (faucet) below it only.

Perhaps that one needs to go to alt.usage.english, as it indicates a definite
difference in UK usage.

Here a geyser heats water for the whole house. A thingy that just heats the
water for the tap below it would be called a "water heater".

This is what we call a geyser

http://www.solarsaver.co.za/wp-content/gallery/solar-geysers/150l-kwikot-solar-geyser-with-one-flat-panel-on-pitched-roof-thermosiphon.jpg



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Kiwi in Aus]

"Steve Hayes" <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
news:cauqk850m8kdop040...@4ax.com...

In Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas powered
usually

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

To answer the question in the title, why not? In 1951 I went to stay
with an aunt who lived in London (at 1 Park Crescent, across from
Regents Park -- you'd need to be a millionaire to live there now, but
after the War you could rent property very cheaply, and not only was my
aunt not wealthy but I don't think the owners were either). It had a
geyser, and I'd be very surprised if it had been installed more
recently than the 1930s. It was a council house, however.


--
athel

[Graeme Wall]

On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
> powered usually

Calef�n is the Argentine Spanish term

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 11:51:01 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:47:03 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <ghjqk8tpf0u7ssifo...@4ax.com>, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:28:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Are you _sure_ it was a TV, not a large radio (wireless)?
>>>>Would you explain another word for those of us in America.
>>>>
>>>>What is a geyser? As used in a previous poster's story.
>>>
>>>A device that heats the water you use to take a bath or a show4er.
>>>
>>>
>>The main difference is that (it is usually wall-mounted and) it tends to
>>operate on-demand, i. e. it heats the water directly before you use it -
>>thus requiring quite a powerful heater (gas or electric), but only on
>>while the tap's running - as opposed to the conventional system which is
>>part of (though usually independently controlled, both thermostat and
>>timing) the central heating system, which maintains a tank of hot water
>>for the household. The geyser is for the tap (faucet) below it only.
>
>Perhaps that one needs to go to alt.usage.english, as it indicates a definite
>difference in UK usage.
>

In the UK a "geyser" is a gas-powered instant hot water heater. I don't
know whether they are still sold. They were installed in kitchens and
bathrooms to provide on-demand hot water. They were cylindrical in shape
and mounted on the wall over the bath or whatever.

This mentions the gas powered Geyser as the forerunner of the electric
water heater:
http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/The-History-of-Who-Invented-the-Electric-Water-Heater/633796

The History Of Who Invented The Electric Water Heater.

The answer to who invented the electric water heater begins around
1850 with an experiment that was created in which both water and
bath, on the underneath side, were heated by gas jets. An Englishman
Benjamin Maughan, however in 1868 invented the first instant water
heater called “The Geyser”, a device where the water was heated as
it flowed into the bath. They were known to be quite dangerous.
...
The Water Heater is still sometimes referred to as a geyser in the
UK.
Also this:
http://voices.yahoo.com/history-water-heaters-10174501.html?cat=6

In the UK it is normal to pronounce the "ey" in "geyser" as "ee" so that
the word sounds like "geezer".

>Here a geyser heats water for the whole house. A thingy that just heats the
>water for the tap below it would be called a "water heater".
>
>This is what we call a geyser
>
>http://www.solarsaver.co.za/wp-content/gallery/solar-geysers/150l-kwikot-solar-geyser-with-one-flat-panel-on-pitched-roof-thermosiphon.jpg

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Dr Nick]

I'm pretty sure that it's one of those that explodes in "Enchanted
April". Having searched the book I was disappointed to see it's
described as a "stove".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:

> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
>> powered usually
>
> Calef�n is the Argentine Spanish term

Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
pronounce the t).


--
athel

[Keith Nuttle]

It's is great we all speak English ;-)


In the US a Water heater is a large tank heated with electricity or gas
that provides water to the whole house.

Many houses no longer have a gas or oil furnace, but have a Heat Pump,
that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These units
usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more extreme
climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:44:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle

This is a modern electric equivalent:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/4867319/INSTANT_WATER_HEATER.html

The water comes out of the nozzle at the end of the pipe on the left.
The pipe can be swivelled into the desired position.

The gas ones I first saw were (vertical) cylinders in shape.

>> I'm pretty sure that it's one of those that explodes in "Enchanted
>> April". Having searched the book I was disappointed to see it's
>> described as a "stove".
>>
>It's is great we all speak English ;-)
>
>
>In the US a Water heater is a large tank heated with electricity or gas
>that provides water to the whole house.
>

We also have those in the UK. We call them "hot water tanks" or in the
plumbing trade, "hot water cylinders". The electric heating element is
known as an "immersion heater". Some people use "immersion heater" to
mean the tank with its electric heater.
http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Cylinders_307.html

>Many houses no longer have a gas or oil furnace,

In BrE we don't use the word "furnace" for one of those. We would talk
of a "central heating boiler". This is mildly illogical as we don't want
the water in one of them to actually boil. :-)

> but have a Heat Pump,
>that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These units
>usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more extreme
>climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.

[Curlytop]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] set the following eddies spiralling through the
space-time continuum:

> In the UK a "geyser" is a gas-powered instant hot water heater. I don't
> know whether they are still sold. They were installed in kitchens and
> bathrooms to provide on-demand hot water. They were cylindrical in shape
> and mounted on the wall over the bath or whatever.

We had one in our house when I was little, to provide instant hot water in
the kitchen. I had misgivings about it even as a kid, for to work properly
it required a pilot flame to be permanently lit ready to light the main gas
burner when required (it could blow out) and there was no vent to the air
outside so prolonged use could start filling the kitchen with carbon
monoxide.

They are not still sold, and indeed are now illegal - for precisely those
reasons.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Graham P Davis]

The one we had over the bath had a flue that went out through the wall
so CO shouldn't have been a problem. However, after birds started
nesting in it, that might not have been true. When the nest slipped
down the flue and caught fire and the firemen ripped the flue out of
the wall, we had no CO worries as we had no geyser. Personal hygiene
became the next worry.

This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a
bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg
And for something completely different, Cumberland Gap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsU-LTwx8Co

[Steve Hayes]

So that means that in UK English the meaning is the reverse of the South
African English usage, where an instant hot water heater is called a water
heater, and a device that heats water for the whole house is called a geyser
-- usually mounted in the roof, or, in the case of a solar geyser, outside on
top of the roof.

As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other hot drinks.

>In the UK it is normal to pronounce the "ey" in "geyser" as "ee" so that
>the word sounds like "geezer".

A student from New Zealand objected to my use of the term "geyser", though
mainly on the ghrounds of pununciation. He said it should be pronounced
"guy-zer".

>>Here a geyser heats water for the whole house. A thingy that just heats the
>>water for the tap below it would be called a "water heater".
>>
>>This is what we call a geyser
>>
>>http://www.solarsaver.co.za/wp-content/gallery/solar-geysers/150l-kwikot-solar-geyser-with-one-flat-panel-on-pitched-roof-thermosiphon.jpg

--

[polygonum]

On 23/03/2013 16:36, Graham P Davis wrote:
<>
>
> The one we had over the bath had a flue that went out through the wall
> so CO shouldn't have been a problem. However, after birds started
> nesting in it, that might not have been true. When the nest slipped
> down the flue and caught fire and the firemen ripped the flue out of
> the wall, we had no CO worries as we had no geyser. Personal hygiene
> became the next worry.
>
> This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
> what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a
> bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
> laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
> agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
> ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
> beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
> crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
> through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
> time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
> build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
> a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.
>

Poss stick

http://www.oldandinteresting.com/washing-dollies.aspx

--
Rod

[Curlytop]

Graham P Davis set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time

When I was little we had such a device in the house but never called it
a "copper", it was a "boiler", probably because it wasn't made of copper
but of galvanised steel. It consisted simply of a large tub with a tap at
the bottom to empty it. How the water was supposed to be heated I never
knew, since there was no gas connection, just a gap of about one foot
underneath. (Had the gas burner already been removed?) I never saw it used,
it was just taking up space in the house until one day it softly and
suddenly vanished away.

[Pierre Jelenc]

In article <ar5m50...@mid.individual.net>,

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
>
>> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
>>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
>>> powered usually
>>

>> Calef? is the Argentine Spanish term

>
>Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
>pronounce the t).

It's actually an English trade mark:

http://etimologias.dechile.net/?calefont

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

[Skitt]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> In the UK a "geyser" is a gas-powered instant hot water heater.

But hot water doesn't need heating! ;)
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/main.html

[Peter Young]

On 23 Mar 2013 Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

[snip]

> When I was little we had such a device in the house but never called it
> a "copper", it was a "boiler", probably because it wasn't made of copper
> but of galvanised steel. It consisted simply of a large tub with a tap at
> the bottom to empty it. How the water was supposed to be heated I never
> knew, since there was no gas connection, just a gap of about one foot
> underneath. (Had the gas burner already been removed?) I never saw it used,
> it was just taking up space in the house until one day it softly and
> suddenly vanished away.

So it was a boojum, you see.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2013-03-23 17:37:05 +0000, Pierre Jelenc said:

> In article <ar5m50...@mid.individual.net>,
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>> On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
>>
>>> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>>>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
>>>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
>>>> powered usually
>>>
>>> Calef? is the Argentine Spanish term
>>
>> Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
>> pronounce the t).
>
> It's actually an English trade mark:
>
> http://etimologias.dechile.net/?calefont

Hmm. "En el hablar vulgar chileno 'Se le apaga el calefont' es ser
gay." I didn't know that, and don't think I've ever heard that
expression. The usual term is "marec�n", but that's probably a lot more
offensive.

Returning to calefonts, though, they're still very much a feature of
Chilean life. Only the most modern (modernistic, even) of houses have
hot-water tanks, so having a hot shower continues to be a bit of a
hit-and-miss affair.


--
athel

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:49:01 -0700, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>
>> In the UK a "geyser" is a gas-powered instant hot water heater.
>
>But hot water doesn't need heating! ;)

<wriggle wriggle>

Sometimes hot water is just not hot enough!

[Peter Brooks]

On Mar 23, 6:47 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>
> As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
> geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
> an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
> in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other hot drinks.
>

The things that you can use to heat up a mug of coffee are also
immersion heaters.

The distinction between a geyser with external and internal heating is
important. If you have a geyser with an immersion heater, you need a
special tool (a very large ring-spanner) to unscrew the heater to
replace it when it goes (they last about five years). If it's an
external heater you don't. The fiddle is worth it because an immersion
heater transfers the heat to the water much more efficiently (and
hence economically) than an external heat source (like a gas jet as
described higher up this tread) does.

I only got the special tool after being stung by a plumber for a vast
sum for him to change it the first time. The second time I emptied the
tank myself before calling the plumber - he refused to come because
he'd only be able to charge one hour and he expected to charge for two
hours because of the time it took the tank to drain. I was grateful,
in the end, because the special took was considerably cheaper than the
call-out fee, let alone an hour's labour. You have to be careful,
though, even with the special tool, or you can twist the copper of the
tank and damage it.

[Paul Wolff]

In message <kikp81$djo$1...@reader2.panix.com>, Pierre Jelenc
<rc...@panix.com> writes

>In article <ar5m50...@mid.individual.net>,
>Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>>On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
>>
>>> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>>>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
>>>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
>>>> powered usually
>>>
>>> Calef? is the Argentine Spanish term
>>
>>Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
>>pronounce the t).
>
>It's actually an English trade mark:
>
>http://etimologias.dechile.net/?calefont
>

Was, maybe, but certainly not an English registered trademark today.
That's not to say that every trademark is on a register.

Chalfont, on the other hand (as those lawyers will insist on saying), is
an English trademark registered for luminaires.
--
Paul

[Mike L]

The now illegal "geysers" in British houses often used to ignite with
a hell of a bang. Later "multi-point" heaters behaved more politely,
and supplied hot water all over the house.

>
>When I was little we had such a device in the house but never called it
>a "copper", it was a "boiler", probably because it wasn't made of copper
>but of galvanised steel. It consisted simply of a large tub with a tap at
>the bottom to empty it. How the water was supposed to be heated I never
>knew, since there was no gas connection, just a gap of about one foot
>underneath. (Had the gas burner already been removed?) I never saw it used,
>it was just taking up space in the house until one day it softly and
>suddenly vanished away.

Our laundry in Australia had a built-in electric one. It was called
the "copper" even though, as far as I remember, made of something
else. The lid was aluminium, and served as a shield for knightly play.

--
Mike.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Mar 23, 10:47 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:12:41 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>
>
>
>
>

> <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> >On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 11:51:01 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net>

> >wrote:
>
> >>On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:47:03 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> >><G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>

> >>>In message <ghjqk8tpf0u7ssifomj0fdrk8c94l0u...@4ax.com>, Steve Hayes
> >>><hayes...@telkomsa.net> writes:
> >>>>On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:28:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle <Keith_Nut...@sbcglobal.net>

To me too.

> >In the UK it is normal to pronounce the "ey" in "geyser" as "ee" so that
> >the word sounds like "geezer".
>
> A student from New Zealand objected to my use of the term "geyser", though
> mainly on the ghrounds of pununciation. He said it should be pronounced
> "guy-zer".

...

That's the American pronunciation too. Here "geyser" means only one
thing--a spring that shoots hot water into the air intermittently--and
an appliance for heating water for a tap has only one name--a water
heater. Well, two names, but nobody calls it a "hot water heater"
when Skitt's around.

I'm not sure I've ever seen the "instant" heater for a single faucet.

I don't think it's all that common in America to have the water heater
on the roof. Maybe on the West Coast and in the hot parts of the
Southwest. My (gas-heated) water heater is in the kitchen, and the
one in the house I grew up is in the basement.

--
Jerry Friedman

[John Varela]

Then you're heating the house with hot water. Our house is heated
with hot water and technically the water is heated in a boiler, same
as you, though we call it a furnace anyway.

In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.

> > but have a Heat Pump,
> >that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These units
> >usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more extreme
> >climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.

The heat pump is perhaps more easily explained as a refrigeration
unit whose action is reversible. In the summer it extracts heat from
the house and pumps it outdoors; in the winter it extracts heat from
the outdoors and pumps it into the house. The "outdoors" is usually
the atmosphere. Where the water table is high it can be used as the
source/sink for heat.

--
John Varela

[Charles Ellson]

An immersion heater element should last something more like 20+ yrs
than 5y; they come in two varieties, the cheaper one for soft water
areas and the more (c.20%) expensive ones for hard water areas (the
latter often also suitable for a stainless steel tank). I found that
out after getting through two and then being asked by the local shop
"do you want one of these instead ?" (loan of spanner included).

[Keith Nuttle]

It is always cheaper to do the work yourself. The trick is to know what
you can do and cannot, (or should not). I have problems sometimes with
the should not.

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 6:02 PM, John Varela wrote:

> In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
> and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
>

_Most_ houses in the US? It's a big country, and heating type varies
widely from area to area.

[Tony Cooper]

I'd go along with "most". There are some in this area heated by
electric baseboard heathers, and even some older ones with hot water
piped under a terrazzo floor. Up north, radiators provided the
heating in some houses.

Still, most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[annily]

That's my experience here in Australia too.

--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 6:43 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
>> On 3/23/2013 6:02 PM, John Varela wrote:
>>
>>> In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
>>> and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
>>>
>> _Most_ houses in the US? It's a big country, and heating type varies
>> widely from area to area.
>
> I'd go along with "most". There are some in this area heated by
> electric baseboard heathers, and even some older ones with hot water
> piped under a terrazzo floor. Up north, radiators provided the
> heating in some houses.
>
> Still, most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts.
>

At the moment I'm sitting in a house on the US east coast, next to a
hot-water radiator. The neighbours on each side also have hot-water
heat, as do the people across the street. I've lived in a number of
different places around here, and only one had hot-air heat. The local
elementary school has massive radiators, as do all/most of the local
schools. It does vary from area to area - some places will have mostly
hot air, some will not. There's a fairly new housing development not too
far away, with hot air heat throughout, but it's by no means the most
common around here.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <88759f4f-e2a1-4bd5...@r1g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,

Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I'm not sure I've ever seen the "instant" heater for a single faucet.

I have; they are quite common in modern kitchens. (My parents' house
has one.) Normally they will have a separate tap at the kitchen sink
(one must be careful because the same style of faucet is used for
(cold) filtered-water taps).

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

In the UK some heat pump systems use a heat-exchange pipe buried in the
ground.

[Peter Moylan]

On 23/03/13 21:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>
> "Steve Hayes" <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
> news:cauqk850m8kdop040...@4ax.com...

>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:47:03 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
>> <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>

>>> In message <ghjqk8tpf0u7ssifo...@4ax.com>, Steve Hayes

>>> <haye...@telkomsa.net> writes:
>>>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:28:37 -0400, Keith Nuttle
>>>> <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net>

>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Are you _sure_ it was a TV, not a large radio (wireless)?
>>>>> Would you explain another word for those of us in America.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is a geyser? As used in a previous poster's story.
>>>>
>>>> A device that heats the water you use to take a bath or a show4er.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The main difference is that (it is usually wall-mounted and) it tends to
>>> operate on-demand, i. e. it heats the water directly before you use it -
>>> thus requiring quite a powerful heater (gas or electric), but only on
>>> while the tap's running - as opposed to the conventional system which is
>>> part of (though usually independently controlled, both thermostat and
>>> timing) the central heating system, which maintains a tank of hot water
>>> for the household. The geyser is for the tap (faucet) below it only.
>>
>> Perhaps that one needs to go to alt.usage.english, as it indicates a
>> definite
>> difference in UK usage.
>>

>> Here a geyser heats water for the whole house. A thingy that just
>> heats the
>> water for the tap below it would be called a "water heater".
>>
>> This is what we call a geyser
>>
>> http://www.solarsaver.co.za/wp-content/gallery/solar-geysers/150l-kwikot-solar-geyser-with-one-flat-panel-on-pitched-roof-thermosiphon.jpg
>>
>>

> In Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is

> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
> powered usually

Furthermore, in Australia a geyser is found only where there are thermal
springs, never inside a house.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Peter Moylan]

On 24/03/13 03:36, Graham P Davis wrote:

> This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
> what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a
> bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
> laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
> agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
> ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
> beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
> crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
> through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
> time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
> build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
> a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.

"Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
finger-mangling wringer.

The copper stick used to fascinate me when I was a child. Repeated
immersion in boiling water gave it a texture you don't normally see on a
wooden stick.

An essential accompaniment to the copper was the "blue bag", a block of
some sort of bleach wrapped in fabric. These provided an excellent
treatment for bee stings. That mattered to my family, because my father
kept bee hives in the back yard.

[Robert Bannister]

My grandma refused to touch the washing machine my uncle bought her and
continued to use the copper, dolly tub and dolly peg up to at least the
60s. I used to have a go with the dolly peg - it was hard work,
especially with sheets. After that, it through the mangle and onto the line.

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter Moylan]

On 24/03/13 08:41, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> I don't think it's all that common in America to have the water heater
> on the roof. Maybe on the West Coast and in the hot parts of the
> Southwest. My (gas-heated) water heater is in the kitchen, and the
> one in the house I grew up is in the basement.

WIWAL my parents got rid of the gas cooker in the kitchen, and replaced
it with a more solid stove of the kind I associate with my grandparents'
generation. (But it burnt coal briquettes, while my grandparents used
wood.) There were two reasons for doing this. One reason was that it
heated the kitchen, which was a virtue in our cold winters, although a
real bugger in our hot summers.

The important reason, though, was that it allowed a big hot-water tank
to be put in the ceiling cavity. The water was heated by pipes through
the stove. That gave us a much better water-heating system than the
instantaneous gas heater in the bathroom.

That sort of water heater is now unusual, as far as I know. It's more
common to have a gas-fired heater with a large tank at ground level. I
have a feeling, though, that those people who use solar water heaters
have their water tank in the ceiling cavity.

[Kiwi in Aus]

>
>
>
>> > but have a Heat Pump,
>> >that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These units
>> >usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more extreme
>> >climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.
>
> The heat pump is perhaps more easily explained as a refrigeration
> unit whose action is reversible. In the summer it extracts heat from
> the house and pumps it outdoors; in the winter it extracts heat from
> the outdoors and pumps it into the house. The "outdoors" is usually
> the atmosphere. Where the water table is high it can be used as the
> source/sink for heat.

These are called reverce cycle air conditioners in Australia, over the ditch
in New Zealand they are heat pumps
>
> --
> John Varela

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 8:29 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> "Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
> gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
> it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
> finger-mangling wringer.
>

My Gran used a copper into the 60s, in Scotland, then went to a twin-tub
provided by one of my uncles.

> An essential accompaniment to the copper was the "blue bag", a block of
> some sort of bleach wrapped in fabric. These provided an excellent
> treatment for bee stings.
>

The blue bag I remember wasn't bleach, it was used to give a bluish tint
to shirts, sheets and towels. It was intended to make them look whiter.

[Kiwi in Aus]

"Peter Moylan" <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:514e45ec$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Yep same in New Zealand,

[Kiwi in Aus]

"Peter Moylan" <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote in message

news:514e...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

> On 24/03/13 03:36, Graham P Davis wrote:
>
>> This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
>> what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a
>> bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
>> laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
>> agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
>> ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
>> beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
>> crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
>> through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
>> time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
>> build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
>> a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.
>
> "Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
> gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
> it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
> finger-mangling wringer.

In New Zealand the "copper" was heated by a fire in the fire box under it,
copper was a copper bowl mounted and surounded by concrete, we had one in
our house unused up to the late 70's, as Child I remember Mum using the
copper to boil the washing, and it was used to heat water for baths after
the war when power was in short supply, Mum all so had a hand wringer
rollers like the later ones but turned the handle to use it

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundry_blue

White fabrics acquire a slight color cast after use (usually grey or
yellow). Since blue and yellow are complementary colors in the
subtractive color model of color perception, adding a trace of blue
color to the slightly off-white color of these fabrics makes them
appear whiter. ... A commercial bluing product allows the consumer
to add the bluing back into the fabric to restore whiteness.

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 8:39 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

> WIWAL my parents got rid of the gas cooker in the kitchen, and replaced
> it with a more solid stove of the kind I associate with my grandparents'
> generation. (But it burnt coal briquettes, while my grandparents used
> wood.) There were two reasons for doing this. One reason was that it
> heated the kitchen, which was a virtue in our cold winters, although a
> real bugger in our hot summers.
>
> The important reason, though, was that it allowed a big hot-water tank
> to be put in the ceiling cavity. The water was heated by pipes through
> the stove. That gave us a much better water-heating system than the
> instantaneous gas heater in the bathroom.
>
> That sort of water heater is now unusual, as far as I know. It's more
> common to have a gas-fired heater with a large tank at ground level. I
> have a feeling, though, that those people who use solar water heaters
> have their water tank in the ceiling cavity.
>

Two years ago, we replaced a unit like that - it was a cooker, it
provided hot water for washing, and it fed the central heating system.
It had been converted from solid fuel to oil about 15 years ago.
The big storage tank in the loft/attic is no longer needed, nor is the
header tank. The hall cupboard which held the hot water cylinder is now
a useful storage space.

[Frank Erskine]

In the UK "basements" aren't all that common. Some Edwardian "town
houses" have 'em, as do a few "one-off" detached houses. The majority
can only manage perhaps a foot or two of crawl space beneath the
floorboards - if that - many ground floors are a solid raft of
concrete.

It would seem that you USAians make a lot more use of your available
"plot" than us in Blighty!

And of course your "first floor" is our "ground floor" (usually called
"downstairs"!)

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:32:13 -0400, S Viemeister

You're referring, in a Peter T. Daniels way, to what you've observed
in your immediate surrounding. And, most probably, an area of older
residences.

At question is "most". That encompasses a much wider area, residences
that have been built more recently that you describe, and a
coast-to-coast situation.

I stand by "most" residences being heated by forced air through
ductwork.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:41:50 +0000, Paul Wolff <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk>
wrote:

St Peter or St Giles?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Peter Moylan]

On 24/03/13 11:42, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 3/23/2013 8:29 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> "Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
>> gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
>> it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
>> finger-mangling wringer.
>>
> My Gran used a copper into the 60s, in Scotland, then went to a twin-tub
> provided by one of my uncles.

Now wait a minute, wasn't it Robert Bannister whose grandmother was
given a washing machine by his uncle?

Are we on the point of discovering some fundamental truth about uncles?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 01:37:12 +0000, Frank Erskine
<frank....@btinternet.com> wrote:


>
>In the UK "basements" aren't all that common. Some Edwardian "town
>houses" have 'em, as do a few "one-off" detached houses. The majority
>can only manage perhaps a foot or two of crawl space beneath the
>floorboards - if that - many ground floors are a solid raft of
>concrete.
>
>It would seem that you USAians make a lot more use of your available
>"plot" than us in Blighty!
>
>And of course your "first floor" is our "ground floor" (usually called
>"downstairs"!)

There used to be many more houses with basements. Many weavers in the
early days of the cotton and wool industries in Lancashire (cotton) and
Yorkshire (wool) worked at home.[1] In Lancashire the cotton looms would
often be in the basements of cottages and small houses. High humidity
was required for working cotton. A basement with an earth floor tended
to be a humid place.

When I went to live in Manchester I discovered that basements were
common in various types of residence built before the early part of the
20th century.

At that time basements were commonly known as cellars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weavers%27_cottage

http://www.ribchesterhistory.org/news20080430_hand_loom_weaving.html

[1]
http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=339&language=eng

Hard as it may have been, the life of a handloom weaver provided a
measure of independence. He could organise his own working week.
In good times it wasn't unusual for him to take Monday and Tuesday
off and make up the time later. Ingenious devices were being
constructed in workshops that were going to change all that. The
new machinery was installed initially in the merchants' warehouses,
then purpose built mills appeared and the handloom weavers had to
surrender their independence, move to the towns and submit to the
factory system. Many expressed their resentment and frustration by
smashing the new power looms.[2]

[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

The Luddites were 19th-century English textile artisans who
violently protested against the machinery introduced during the
Industrial Revolution that made it possible to replace them with
less-skilled, low-wage labourers, leaving them without work.

[Dr Nick]

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes:

> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:49:01 -0700, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>>Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>
>>> In the UK a "geyser" is a gas-powered instant hot water heater.
>>

>>But hot water doesn't need heating! ;)
>
> <wriggle wriggle>
>
> Sometimes hot water is just not hot enough!

I've heard of people using instant heaters to top up the output from a
solar collector. The sun warms the water, the gas gets it properly hot.

[Graham P Davis]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:42:17 -0400
S Viemeister <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:

> > An essential accompaniment to the copper was the "blue bag", a
> > block of some sort of bleach wrapped in fabric. These provided an
> > excellent treatment for bee stings.
> >
> The blue bag I remember wasn't bleach, it was used to give a bluish
> tint to shirts, sheets and towels. It was intended to make them look
> whiter.

Yes, Reckitt's Blue is still sold today but it seems it only comes in
tablet form and you have to provide your own bag!
http://www.carbolicsoap.com/reckitt-s-blue-bluing-tablet

It was also used by grey-haired ladies to add a sparkle to their locks;
also see 'blue-rinse brigade.'

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg
And for something completely different, Cumberland Gap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsU-LTwx8Co

[Renia]

In Greece, many apartments have solar panels on the roofs of buildings,
with the water tank fixed just above them. We had two solar panels and
one February, when it was snowing, the pipes leading from the solar
panel to the tank burst and there was a frozen fountain of water leading
to a flat roof which looked like a skating rink. In July and August, it
was 35-40 degrees of non-stop sunshine, yet the two panels only provided
enough water for one shower. If I wanted a shower, I would have to wait
about 3 hours after my husband had had his. For this reason, I find
solar panels completely overrated and would never have them here in the UK.

I was offered 12 free panels not long after getting back here. Wasn't
interested. They make our roofs look terribly ugly, and most British
roofs aren't strong enough to support so many panels. There was talk of
houses with solar panels being unmortgageable in the UK for this reason.

[Renia]

So where is the water stored?

[Graeme Wall]

On 24/03/2013 09:56, brightside S9 wrote:

> Dolly Blue from Backbarrow,
> see http://www.haverthwaiteparishcouncil.org.uk/History.html
> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbarrow
>

Then there was Daz with the "new blue whitener" which always confused me
as a child.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <kik849$c4o$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>On 3/23/2013 8:22 AM, Dr Nick wrote:
[]
>> I'm pretty sure that it's one of those that explodes in "Enchanted
>> April". Having searched the book I was disappointed to see it's
>> described as a "stove".

I'd say "stove" isn't much used in British English now, but if it is,
would refer to something with one to four hotplates or gas burners, that
you place saucepans, kettles, etc. on - the more common word being
"cooker", though that more usually refers to the whole piece of
furniture, with the four rings/burners on top, an oven (usually) lower
down (sometimes two of them), and a grill either just below the
hotplates/burners or at eye level. Oops, just to clarify more: "oven"
being a heated compartment you would use to cook a roast (large joint of
meat), or a turkey, and/or vegetables; a "grill" being a not very high
compartment, heated from above, usually with no door, which you might
use to make toast or similar.

I think what we call a "cooker" is in US sometimes called a "range"; we
do have that word, but it tends only to be used for a large often
cast-iron structure built into the building and providing the heating as
well - in isolated farmhouses and the like (sometimes known as an Aga,
which is the trade name of the best-known maker). (Used to be -
coal-fired - in miner's cottages too, but mostly those are a _long_ time
ago!)

The over-the-sink thing is usually a "water heater"; the term "geyser"
(pronounced "geezer") is understood by most, but not that common. They
tend to be electric; the old term tended to be applied to a gas one, but
they've fallen out of favour (illegal I think for new installations)
because of carbon monoxide tragedies from them (and/or their flues)
being badly maintained, especially by unscrupulous landlords.
>>
>It's is great we all speak English ;-)
>
Two nations divided by a common language - Oscar Wilde (I think). Though
it seems we're now up to about five nations on this subject (-:!

>
>In the US a Water heater is a large tank heated with electricity or gas
>that provides water to the whole house.

The commonest arrangement here is a gas "boiler", which heats a
circulating fluid (nearly always water), which is diverted by a two-way
valve either into the radiators to provide heating, or through a coil to
indirectly heat the water in a lagged/insulated tank, known as the "hot
water tank" or "cylinder", to provide hot water to the whole household.
The room temperature is (usually - not everyone has one) controlled by a
thermostat on the wall somewhere, and the hot water temperature by one
strapped to the cylinder; if both are hot enough, the "boiler" is shut
off, otherwise the valve determines which way the circulating fluid
goes. (If both are too cool, one takes priority - I'm not sure whether
hot water priority or room heating priority is commoner.) In addition,
they are usually on a time switch - at its simplest, for a period in the
morning and in the evening, with variations through separate timing for
heating and hot water, up to full sophisticated controls having
different settings for each for different days of the week.

The hot water cylinder often also has an electric heating element,
especially in older systems that were converted from a
non-central-heating system; this is known as an immersion heater, and in
most households (that have gas, anyway) is rarely used, as it is more
expensive to run than the gas.
>
>Many houses no longer have a gas or oil furnace, but have a Heat Pump,

As another has said, the word "furnace" isn't used in UK: to us it
suggests something industrial, in scale or temperature or both. As might
be used in steel production, or an incinerator, or a blacksmith (though
that would also be called a forge, though that can mean the whole
workshop, not just the heating part).

>that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These
>units usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more
>extreme climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.

Cooling is still quite rare in UK, at least built into homes; "portable"
(i. e. can be moved around, usually on little wheels) "air-conditioning"
units are beginning to appear in the height of summer. Their use isn't
widely understood; last summer I think it was I saw someone using one at
work where the built-in unit (those are becoming commoner in places of
employment) wasn't working, but they hadn't realised that the end of the
exhaust hose had to be placed outside the room they were in ... (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in
many kinds of motivation, among other functions. The hypothalamus controls the
"Four F's": fighting, fleeing, feeding, and mating. -Heard in a neuropsychology
classroom

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<ef757cbd-b657-45a1...@h17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> writes:

>On Mar 23, 6:47�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
>> geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
>> an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
>> in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other
>>hot drinks.
>>

>The things that you can use to heat up a mug of coffee are also
>immersion heaters.

And I suspect not allowed under current regulations - I've not seen one
on sale for ages, anyway (though I have one!). Would glow bright red if
run not immersed!
>
>The distinction between a geyser with external and internal heating is
>important. If you have a geyser with an immersion heater, you need a
>special tool (a very large ring-spanner) to unscrew the heater to
>replace it when it goes (they last about five years). If it's an

In UK, I don't think we'd call it a geyser - we'd call it a cylinder or
hot water tank. About four or five feet high? And I've usually
experienced immersion heater elements to last a lot longer than that -
more like twenty or thirty!

>external heater you don't. The fiddle is worth it because an immersion
>heater transfers the heat to the water much more efficiently (and
>hence economically) than an external heat source (like a gas jet as
>described higher up this tread) does.

External source, yes; coil for heat transfer as I've already described
... well, I suppose more _efficient_ in terms of the energy transfer, I
can't argue against the element, but I think in terms of running _cost_,
it's more expensive. (Because the electricity itself is produced
inefficiently.)
>
>I only got the special tool after being stung by a plumber for a vast
>sum for him to change it the first time. The second time I emptied the
>tank myself before calling the plumber - he refused to come because
>he'd only be able to charge one hour and he expected to charge for two
>hours because of the time it took the tank to drain. I was grateful,
>in the end, because the special took was considerably cheaper than the
>call-out fee, let alone an hour's labour. You have to be careful,
>though, even with the special tool, or you can twist the copper of the
>tank and damage it.

I wonder what our ancestors would think of our discussions of the
language and methods of heating our homes! I guess electric controls
made most of what we do now possible. Most of my amcestors that I
actually remember - which is, I guess, just the two sets of grandparents
- lived in mining areas, and had coal fires in the rooms: well, usually
just one room (I remember freezing bedrooms!). I can't remember how hot
water appeared at my Northumberland grandparents (for something like a
bath I mean - for the endless cups of tea, a kettle was used); my
Nottingham ones I do just remember the tin (actually, I suspect
galvanized steel) oval bath before the fire. (Though I still can't
remember how the water to fill it was heated. In pans and kettles I
suspect.)

Two or three years ago an American cousin - a nice lady in her forties,
with her daughter - came over to do some genealogy. While visiting the
mining museum and archives in Ashington (Northumberland), she picked up
a lump from a pit tub and asked, "is this coal?". I was flabbergasted,
that someone could have gone through life without ever encountering
coal! (It wasn't, actually, but it was supposed to be - it is a museum.)

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:48:49 +0000, Renia <re...@otenet.gr> wrote:

>In Greece, many apartments have solar panels on the roofs of buildings,
>with the water tank fixed just above them. We had two solar panels and
>one February, when it was snowing, the pipes leading from the solar
>panel to the tank burst and there was a frozen fountain of water leading
>to a flat roof which looked like a skating rink. In July and August, it
>was 35-40 degrees of non-stop sunshine, yet the two panels only provided
>enough water for one shower. If I wanted a shower, I would have to wait
>about 3 hours after my husband had had his. For this reason, I find
>solar panels completely overrated and would never have them here in the UK.

Perhaps it needed servicing.

We installed a solar geyser about 3 years ago, and in summer it provides
enough hot water for 3 baths and a shower, 2 baths in winter. It runs off
electricity from 4 pm to 6 pm and from 4 am to 4:30 am (the timer can be
adjusted), and it only comes on if it drops below 55 degrees. That compensates
for cloudy days. It has cut down on electricity bills considerably.

[Steve Hayes]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:40:03 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden

<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
>
>> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
>>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
>>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
>>> powered usually
>>

>> Calef�n is the Argentine Spanish term

>
>Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
>pronounce the t).

So from the conversation can we summarise the terminology thus:


S African British American Aus/NZ
========= ======= ======== ======
geyser immersion heater water heater hot water
water heater geyser water heater calafon

[Steve Hayes]

[J. J. Lodder]

Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:40:03 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
> >On 2013-03-23 10:54:31 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
> >
> >> On 23/03/2013 10:00, Kiwi in Aus wrote:
> >>> n Australia that is called solar hot water, In New Zealand a geyser is
> >>> called a califont/calafont, heats water for one tap or shower gas
> >>> powered usually
> >>
> >> Calef�n is the Argentine Spanish term
> >
> >Also in Chile, but I think they usually spell it calefont (but don't
> >pronounce the t).
>
>
> So from the conversation can we summarise the terminology thus:
>
>
> S African British American Aus/NZ
> ========= ======= ======== ======
> geyser immersion heater water heater hot water
> water heater geyser water heater calafon

I'll add Dutch for your reference.
Dutch Geyser redirects to Geiser.

Geiser = exclusively gas powered water heater.
Keukengeiser = small one, above the sink.
Badgeiser = big one, needs exhaust to ouside.
Combiketel = still bigger one used for hot water
and central heating.

Boiler = Electric water heater, always with storage,
or hot water storage in combination with central heating.

Electric water heaters without storage are almost unknown,
a novelty item, best known by the brand name Quooker.
(a standard Dutch home has only 3*25A@230V=15kW)

Jan

[Cheryl]

On 24/03/2013 12:40 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 24/03/13 11:42, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 3/23/2013 8:29 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> "Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
>>> gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
>>> it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
>>> finger-mangling wringer.
>>>
>> My Gran used a copper into the 60s, in Scotland, then went to a twin-tub
>> provided by one of my uncles.
>
> Now wait a minute, wasn't it Robert Bannister whose grandmother was
> given a washing machine by his uncle?
>
> Are we on the point of discovering some fundamental truth about uncles?
>

My grandparents bought their own washer and dryer (although I can
remember when my mother had one with a wringer on top). When one of my
uncles helped them out by paying their electricity bill, my grandmother,
with the laudable ambition of reducing his expenses, rarely used the
dryer so as to save electricity.

Of course, she (and my mother as well) preferred to dry their clothing
outside anyway, regardless of savings or indeed the effect on the
environment.

My grandfather, for many years, insisted that my grandmother's sewing
machine was just fine, on the grounds that if it was good enough for his
mother, it was good enough for her. At least it ran on electricity.

--
Cheryl

[Nick Spalding]

Charles Ellson wrote, in <m29sk8hvevduar33m...@4ax.com>
on Sat, 23 Mar 2013 22:03:54 +0000:

> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 11:55:23 -0700 (PDT), Peter Brooks
> <peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 23, 6:47�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
> >> geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
> >> an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
> >> in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other hot drinks.
> >>
> >The things that you can use to heat up a mug of coffee are also
> >immersion heaters.
> >

> >The distinction between a geyser with external and internal heating is
> >important. If you have a geyser with an immersion heater, you need a
> >special tool (a very large ring-spanner) to unscrew the heater to
> >replace it when it goes (they last about five years). If it's an

> >external heater you don't. The fiddle is worth it because an immersion
> >heater transfers the heat to the water much more efficiently (and
> >hence economically) than an external heat source (like a gas jet as
> >described higher up this tread) does.
> >

> >I only got the special tool after being stung by a plumber for a vast
> >sum for him to change it the first time. The second time I emptied the
> >tank myself before calling the plumber - he refused to come because
> >he'd only be able to charge one hour and he expected to charge for two
> >hours because of the time it took the tank to drain. I was grateful,
> >in the end, because the special took was considerably cheaper than the
> >call-out fee, let alone an hour's labour. You have to be careful,
> >though, even with the special tool, or you can twist the copper of the
> >tank and damage it.
> >

> An immersion heater element should last something more like 20+ yrs
> than 5y; they come in two varieties, the cheaper one for soft water
> areas and the more (c.20%) expensive ones for hard water areas (the
> latter often also suitable for a stainless steel tank). I found that
> out after getting through two and then being asked by the local shop
> "do you want one of these instead ?" (loan of spanner included).

I hadn't seen that distinction. Maybe the local stockists only keep the
one suitable for the local water. What is common is a double one, a
long element that goes right to the bottom of the cylinder and one going
only about a third of the way which will quickly heat enough for a
shower.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Katy Jennison]

On 24/03/2013 11:20, Cheryl wrote:

> My grandparents bought their own washer and dryer (although I can
> remember when my mother had one with a wringer on top). When one of my
> uncles helped them out by paying their electricity bill, my grandmother,
> with the laudable ambition of reducing his expenses, rarely used the
> dryer so as to save electricity.
>
> Of course, she (and my mother as well) preferred to dry their clothing
> outside anyway, regardless of savings or indeed the effect on the
> environment.

The effect on the environment of drying laundry outside??

[aue only]

--
Katy Jennison

[Nick Spalding]

Cheryl wrote, in <ar85r4...@mid.individual.net>
on Sun, 24 Mar 2013 08:50:13 -0230:

> My grandfather, for many years, insisted that my grandmother's sewing
> machine was just fine, on the grounds that if it was good enough for his
> mother, it was good enough for her. At least it ran on electricity.

We bought our sewing machine, a Frister and Rossman, just after we were
married in 1959. It was guaranteed for ten years. After 53 years my
daughter thought it ought to have a professional service - I had been
blowing the dust out and giving it a drop of oil now and again - and the
man could find nothing wrong with it at all. I think I did give it a
new drive belt once.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 11:10 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 24/03/13 11:42, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 3/23/2013 8:29 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> "Copper" was also the Australian term for this device. Our family had a
>>> gas-fired copper until well into the 1950s, maybe even the 1960s, until
>>> it was replaced by one of those new-fangled washing machines with a
>>> finger-mangling wringer.
>>>
>> My Gran used a copper into the 60s, in Scotland, then went to a twin-tub
>> provided by one of my uncles.
>
> Now wait a minute, wasn't it Robert Bannister whose grandmother was
> given a washing machine by his uncle?
>
> Are we on the point of discovering some fundamental truth about uncles?
>

It would seem so.

[Katy Jennison]

On 24/03/2013 09:48, Renia wrote:

> In Greece, many apartments have solar panels on the roofs of buildings,
> with the water tank fixed just above them. We had two solar panels and
> one February, when it was snowing, the pipes leading from the solar
> panel to the tank burst and there was a frozen fountain of water leading
> to a flat roof which looked like a skating rink. In July and August, it
> was 35-40 degrees of non-stop sunshine, yet the two panels only provided
> enough water for one shower. If I wanted a shower, I would have to wait
> about 3 hours after my husband had had his. For this reason, I find
> solar panels completely overrated and would never have them here in the UK.
>
> I was offered 12 free panels not long after getting back here. Wasn't
> interested. They make our roofs look terribly ugly, and most British
> roofs aren't strong enough to support so many panels. There was talk of
> houses with solar panels being unmortgageable in the UK for this reason.

Solar panels in the UK these days feed electricity into the grid. Solar
water-heating panels are a different kettle of fish and are certainly
heavier. They're fairly uncommon, whereas lots of houses with a
reasonable expanse of south-facing roof have solar panels. We do. It's
wonderful watching your electricity meter going backwards.

[S Viemeister]

On 3/23/2013 6:44 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> I wonder what our ancestors would think of our discussions of the
> language and methods of heating our homes! I guess electric controls
> made most of what we do now possible. Most of my amcestors that I
> actually remember - which is, I guess, just the two sets of grandparents
> - lived in mining areas, and had coal fires in the rooms: well, usually
> just one room (I remember freezing bedrooms!). I can't remember how hot
> water appeared at my Northumberland grandparents (for something like a
> bath I mean - for the endless cups of tea, a kettle was used)
>

In my Grandparents' house there was just the living room fireplace for
heat (and an electrically heated towel warmer in the bathroom) but the
fireplace had a back boiler to provide hot water, with an immersion
heater for backup.
In my house, until a couple of years ago, both the fireplace and the
Rayburn (a bit like an Aga) provided domestic hot water and central heating.

[S Viemeister]

On 3/24/2013 5:50 AM, Renia wrote:

>> Two years ago, we replaced a unit like that - it was a cooker, it
>> provided hot water for washing, and it fed the central heating system.
>> It had been converted from solid fuel to oil about 15 years ago.
>> The big storage tank in the loft/attic is no longer needed, nor is the
>> header tank. The hall cupboard which held the hot water cylinder is now
>> a useful storage space.
>
> So where is the water stored?

It isn't! We installed a combi, and the water is heated on demand.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 22:44:40 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message
><ef757cbd-b657-45a1...@h17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Mar 23, 6:47�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
>>> geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
>>> an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
>>> in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other
>>>hot drinks.
>>>
>>The things that you can use to heat up a mug of coffee are also
>>immersion heaters.
>
>And I suspect not allowed under current regulations - I've not seen one
>on sale for ages, anyway (though I have one!). Would glow bright red if
>run not immersed!
>>
>>The distinction between a geyser with external and internal heating is
>>important. If you have a geyser with an immersion heater, you need a
>>special tool (a very large ring-spanner) to unscrew the heater to
>>replace it when it goes (they last about five years). If it's an
>
>In UK, I don't think we'd call it a geyser - we'd call it a cylinder or
>hot water tank. About four or five feet high? And I've usually
>experienced immersion heater elements to last a lot longer than that -
>more like twenty or thirty!
>

Those heater elements operate in an environment favourable for long
life. Thay are, after all, water-cooled.

<darfc>

[Renia]

On 24/03/2013 10:37, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 09:48:49 +0000, Renia <re...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>> In Greece, many apartments have solar panels on the roofs of buildings,
>> with the water tank fixed just above them. We had two solar panels and
>> one February, when it was snowing, the pipes leading from the solar
>> panel to the tank burst and there was a frozen fountain of water leading
>> to a flat roof which looked like a skating rink. In July and August, it
>> was 35-40 degrees of non-stop sunshine, yet the two panels only provided
>> enough water for one shower. If I wanted a shower, I would have to wait
>> about 3 hours after my husband had had his. For this reason, I find
>> solar panels completely overrated and would never have them here in the UK.
>
> Perhaps it needed servicing.
>
> We installed a solar geyser about 3 years ago, and in summer it provides
> enough hot water for 3 baths and a shower, 2 baths in winter. It runs off
> electricity from 4 pm to 6 pm and from 4 am to 4:30 am (the timer can be
> adjusted), and it only comes on if it drops below 55 degrees. That compensates
> for cloudy days. It has cut down on electricity bills considerably.

It was serviced every year and was new when we moved in, which was about
18 months previously. The two panels were replaced after the burst pipe
eposode (because the panels had also cracked) and were still just as
useless. We later moved to a new house which had an entire new system,
and that was the same. Either Greek solar panels are inferior (which I
doubt, because "everyone" has them) or solar panels are simply
overrated. Mind you, I don't believe ours operated on electricity at
all. Just the sun. We always backed it up with the immersion heater.

[Don Phillipson]

"Steve Hayes" <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
news:cauqk850m8kdop040...@4ax.com...

>>>>What is a geyser? As used in a previous poster's story.
>>>
>>>A device that heats the water you use to take a bath or a show4er.
>>>
>>>
>>The main difference is that (it is usually wall-mounted and) it tends to
>>operate on-demand, i. e. it heats the water directly before you use it -
>>thus requiring quite a powerful heater (gas or electric), but only on
>>while the tap's running - as opposed to the conventional system which is
>>part of (though usually independently controlled, both thermostat and
>>timing) the central heating system, which maintains a tank of hot water
>>for the household. The geyser is for the tap (faucet) below it only.

In Britain in the 1930s (when builders adopted the fully-equipped single
family
house as their norm) a distinction was named between:
boilers = permanently heated (large) hot water tanks,
geysers = demand-triggered water heaters (with small pass-through tanks.)

The functional difference was that boilers supplied hot water on
demand, while geysers ran cold initially, viz. needed time to warm up.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Renia]

I had an electric Singer sewing machine for my 21st birthday in 1973. It
still works fine, and has never been serviced. Still looks "modern"
except it isn't a computer!

[Renia]

Ah! My pet hate! (Apart from solar panels!) I'm just a back-boiler girl!
Although the extra space without a need for one tank in the attic, and
the imersion heater taking up space in the hall is a bonus. Except I
miss my airing cupboard! (Never satisfied.)

[polygonum]

Very often it is the thermostat that fails rather than the immersion
heater itself.

Hard water tends to build up a scale coat which allows element
temperature to rise much, much more - so contributes to failure.

A large proportion of immersion heaters these days are used but rarely -
e.g. if boiler not working. So their life in years tends to be excellent
- but in running hours not so good. Especially the lower quality ones.

There is uk.d-i-y for anyone still needing to know about replacing hot
water cylinders, immersion heaters, boilers, etc. :-)

--
Rod

[S Viemeister]

Perhaps some combis work better than others? Ours provides constant hot
water at mains pressure, and has saved us hundreds of pounds in fuel costs.
I have plans to install a dehumidifier in the old airing cupboard...

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-kqRoSmkRdBLS@localhost>, John Varela
<newl...@verizon.net> writes:
[]
>Then you're heating the house with hot water. Our house is heated
>with hot water and technically the water is heated in a boiler, same
>as you, though we call it a furnace anyway.
>
>In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
>and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
[]
Ah, I hadn't realised that. Heating by hot air is very rare in UK -
radiators (thin flat panels in modern installations, marvellous huge
finned things in older ones) containing circulated hot water are the
norm. (I saw a mention of "steam radiators" in another post - I don't
think those are common in domestic installations, though some of the
larger old institutional ones may get that hot.)

Solar heating - direct - is also extremely rare; most people think we
don't get enough hot weather, though in fact - especially with some
heat-exchanging pumping - they can still make a useful contribution,
even if topping-up by electricity or gas is still required. But still
rare though.

Photovoltaic solar panels have recently appeared in reasonable numbers,
mainly due to huge subsidy (mainly implemented by forcing the
electricity companies to pay well over the going rate - about three
times, I think - for any surplus power generated, and that obligation
being guaranteed for some decades). I think that scheme has been
discontinued for new installations, but it has resulted in quite a lot
of PV panels appearing while it lasted. Without the subsidy, the payback
time for such installations is I think 25-30 years; still worth
considering for those with long foresight and no intention to move (and
of course energy prices are on a steady rise, so the payback time should
reduce), but I suspect few will go for it.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"In the _car_-park? What are you doing there?" "Parking cars, what else does
one
do in a car-park?" (First series, fit the fifth.)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ar87mq...@mid.individual.net>, S Viemeister

Ah, now you mention it, I think the kitchen fireplace (!) did indeed
have a back boiler, and such things not being that uncommon. More or
less had to be installed when the building was built, though, I think,
as tended to be in the chimney structure, more or less. IIRR it was
removed in the 1960s, when my parents bought my grandparents a more
modern central heating system with radiators and the like (the boiler
was _big_, sort of like a 'fridge - free standing in the [extended]
kitchen behind where the fireplace had been - though it was very
reliable). Actually I think the back boiler _wasn't_ removed, and caused
subsequent problems.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <Q4uUzUbJ...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes:
[]

>Ah, now you mention it, I think the kitchen fireplace (!) did indeed
>have a back boiler, and such things not being that uncommon. More or
>less had to be installed when the building was built, though, I think,
>as tended to be in the chimney structure, more or less. IIRR it was
>removed in the 1960s, when my parents bought my grandparents a more
>modern central heating system with radiators and the like (the boiler
>was _big_, sort of like a 'fridge - free standing in the [extended]
>kitchen behind where the fireplace had been - though it was very
>reliable). Actually I think the back boiler _wasn't_ removed, and
>caused subsequent problems.

Actually, and getting (only vaguely!) back on-topic, I think the fuel
used for heating (house and water) in the UK was - even outside mining
areas - in large part coal; the coalman and his lorry (or, further back,
cart) being a common sight. I'm not sure how much pre-1970s gas was used
for heating (much earlier in the century of course it was used for
lighting); I think it tended to be used for cooking, if only for its
easy and rapid adjustability, but less so for heating. That being "town
gas", made - mostly - from coal; it was a mixture of carbon monoxide and
(IIRR) methane, with also a not particularly low sulphur content. It was
poisonous in itself (common means of suicide in fiction, not sure about
fact), unlike "natural" or "north sea" gas. In the 1970s, the latter
came on-stream, necessitating a huge national exercise to change the
burners in all appliances (natural gas is mostly methane [not
poisonous], and burns differently): this was done region by region.
Everything was changed - from the Bunsen burners in our school chem.
labs, to the burners in grandma's gas cooker, to those in "geysers", tea
urns, and the like, to (I presume) those in industry.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ar8bm4...@mid.individual.net>, polygonum

<rmoud...@vrod.co.uk> writes:
>On 24/03/2013 11:58, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

[electric "immersion" water heating elements]

>> Those heater elements operate in an environment favourable for long
>> life. Thay are, after all, water-cooled.

That helped with cooling, of course, but not corrosion.

>>
>> <darfc>
>>
>Very often it is the thermostat that fails rather than the immersion
>heater itself.
>
>Hard water tends to build up a scale coat which allows element
>temperature to rise much, much more - so contributes to failure.
>
>A large proportion of immersion heaters these days are used but rarely
>- e.g. if boiler not working. So their life in years tends to be

At which point it may be discovered (by the fuse blowing!) that it has
corroded.

>excellent - but in running hours not so good. Especially the lower
>quality ones.
>
>There is uk.d-i-y for anyone still needing to know about replacing hot
>water cylinders, immersion heaters, boilers, etc. :-)
>

(-:

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[Kiwi in Aus]

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Q4uUzUbJ...@soft255.demon.co.uk...

Another different Name back boiler in New Zealand was still is called a
wetback, often used with an electric heating element as well, friend turns
the electric part off when fire in use, helps save power.
Talking of airing cupboards, in New Zealand most electric hot water systems
were in an enclosed cupboard, with slat shelves, for airing cloths, this is
something I missed on moving to Australia, most hot water systems are out
side here, so no airing cupboard, the unit I now live in has a small hot
water system in a cupboard under the bench but not suitable to air clothes

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

I agree with all that.

In the UK air circulated by ducts is common in theatres, concert halls,
other auditoriums and some office buildings. Those, however, are likely
to use centralised air-conditioning systems that heat or cool the air
according to need.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <pNSdnfubauyCntLM...@giganews.com>, Kiwi in Aus
<Wwft...@Yahoo.com> writes:
[]

>Talking of airing cupboards, in New Zealand most electric hot water
>systems were in an enclosed cupboard, with slat shelves, for airing
>cloths, this is something I missed on moving to Australia, most hot
>water systems are out side here, so no airing cupboard, the unit I now
>live in has a small hot water system in a cupboard under the bench but
>not suitable to air clothes

[]
The "airing cupboard" - with slat shelves as you describe - in UK houses
was often where the hot water cylinder was. As time went by and they
became better insulated (I think originally they might even not have
been insulated at all), they became less effective (not just because
less heat escaped but because the insulation jacket took up more and
more of the - usually small anyway - space), but still tend to be used
as somewhere to store sheets, towels, and the like. Possibly the slatted
shelves still help with airing, i. e. stopping not 100%-dry cloth going
mouldy.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Intelligence isn't complete without the full picture and the full picture is
all about doubt. Otherwise, you go the way of George Bush. - baroness Eliza
Manningham-Buller (former head of MI5), Radio Times 3-9 September 2011.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:01:48 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <pNSdnfubauyCntLM...@giganews.com>, Kiwi in Aus
><Wwft...@Yahoo.com> writes:
>[]
>>Talking of airing cupboards, in New Zealand most electric hot water
>>systems were in an enclosed cupboard, with slat shelves, for airing
>>cloths, this is something I missed on moving to Australia, most hot
>>water systems are out side here, so no airing cupboard, the unit I now
>>live in has a small hot water system in a cupboard under the bench but
>>not suitable to air clothes
>[]
>The "airing cupboard" - with slat shelves as you describe - in UK houses
>was often where the hot water cylinder was. As time went by and they
>became better insulated (I think originally they might even not have
>been insulated at all), they became less effective (not just because
>less heat escaped but because the insulation jacket took up more and
>more of the - usually small anyway - space), but still tend to be used
>as somewhere to store sheets, towels, and the like. Possibly the slatted
>shelves still help with airing, i. e. stopping not 100%-dry cloth going
>mouldy.

I still have an airing cupboard of that type, slatted shelves above the
hot water cylinder. The original cylinder was of copper appearance and
had no inbuilt insulation. As was normal it had an insulating jacket
added (obtainable from all good hardware shops). That cylinder was
replaced by one with built-in insulation.

In some places an airing cupboard is called a "hot press".

OED:
press, n.1

Now chiefly Sc. and Irish English. A large (usually shelved)
cupboard, esp. one placed in a recess in the wall, for holding
linen, clothes, books, etc., or food, plates, dishes, and other
kitchen items.

[Graham P Davis]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:14:35 +0000

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Ah, I hadn't realised that. Heating by hot air is very rare in UK -

Many houses here built around 1970 had warm-air, ducted heating.
Unfortunately, the design and implementation was so awful, I had to
scrap the system and replace it with radiators.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Carlos Seixas, Sonata nº 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXox7vonfEg
And for something completely different, Cumberland Gap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsU-LTwx8Co

[CDB]

A good effect (like the savings); but not their reason for hanging out
the clothes.

[Graham P Davis]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:34:27 +0000
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Actually, and getting (only vaguely!) back on-topic, I think the fuel
> used for heating (house and water) in the UK was - even outside
> mining areas - in large part coal; the coalman and his lorry (or,
> further back, cart) being a common sight. I'm not sure how much
> pre-1970s gas was used for heating (much earlier in the century of
> course it was used for lighting); I think it tended to be used for
> cooking, if only for its easy and rapid adjustability, but less so
> for heating.

It was also occasionally used for cooling as the Gas Board showrooms
usually had gas refrigerators in the window. No idea how many they sold.

> That being "town gas", made - mostly - from coal; it was
> a mixture of carbon monoxide and (IIRR) methane, with also a not
> particularly low sulphur content. It was poisonous in itself (common
> means of suicide in fiction, not sure about fact), unlike "natural"
> or "north sea" gas. In the 1970s, the latter came on-stream,
> necessitating a huge national exercise to change the burners in all
> appliances (natural gas is mostly methane [not poisonous], and burns
> differently): this was done region by region. Everything was changed
> - from the Bunsen burners in our school chem. labs, to the burners in
> grandma's gas cooker, to those in "geysers", tea urns, and the like,
> to (I presume) those in industry.

Many gas customers were told their equipment could not be converted
because it was too old and that they would have to buy a new
replacement. Friend of mine was told that her pre-war cooker was too
old but she refused to buy a new one. Eventually they gave in and sent
a fitter round. She asked the fitter what the problem was with the old
cookers and he told her that the old ones were usually easier to convert
than the new ones; it was just a con to boost sales.

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote, in
<6d4uk897l677ndh49...@4ax.com>
on Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:53:14 +0000:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 14:01:48 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <pNSdnfubauyCntLM...@giganews.com>, Kiwi in Aus
> ><Wwft...@Yahoo.com> writes:
> >[]
> >>Talking of airing cupboards, in New Zealand most electric hot water
> >>systems were in an enclosed cupboard, with slat shelves, for airing
> >>cloths, this is something I missed on moving to Australia, most hot
> >>water systems are out side here, so no airing cupboard, the unit I now
> >>live in has a small hot water system in a cupboard under the bench but
> >>not suitable to air clothes
> >[]
> >The "airing cupboard" - with slat shelves as you describe - in UK houses
> >was often where the hot water cylinder was. As time went by and they
> >became better insulated (I think originally they might even not have
> >been insulated at all), they became less effective (not just because
> >less heat escaped but because the insulation jacket took up more and
> >more of the - usually small anyway - space), but still tend to be used
> >as somewhere to store sheets, towels, and the like. Possibly the slatted
> >shelves still help with airing, i. e. stopping not 100%-dry cloth going
> >mouldy.
>
> I still have an airing cupboard of that type, slatted shelves above the
> hot water cylinder. The original cylinder was of copper appearance and
> had no inbuilt insulation. As was normal it had an insulating jacket
> added (obtainable from all good hardware shops). That cylinder was
> replaced by one with built-in insulation.

Exactly the same in this house, built 1964.

> In some places an airing cupboard is called a "hot press".
>
> OED:
> press, n.1
>
> Now chiefly Sc. and Irish English. A large (usually shelved)
> cupboard, esp. one placed in a recess in the wall, for holding
> linen, clothes, books, etc., or food, plates, dishes, and other
> kitchen items.
--

Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[cecilia]

Graham P Davis wrote:
>[...] a 'copper.' Not a
>bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
>laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
>agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.'
>[...]


A girl that worked in a signal box during and just after WW2 was given
a 21st birthday present by the local Italian PoW crew that kept the
track in order. Without much money, they (jointly) carved a piece of
broken railway sleeper into a large dolly stick. She told me that it
was perfectly useable, but too nice to use, particularly because of
the goodwill that had gone into the making; she treasured it for the
rest of her long life.

[Renia]

On 24/03/2013 13:14, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-kqRoSmkRdBLS@localhost>, John Varela
> <newl...@verizon.net> writes:
> []
>> Then you're heating the house with hot water. Our house is heated
>> with hot water and technically the water is heated in a boiler, same
>> as you, though we call it a furnace anyway.
>>
>> In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
>> and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
> []
> Ah, I hadn't realised that. Heating by hot air is very rare in UK -

We bought our first house in Eastbourne in 1978, the year we got
married. It was built that year and was heated by hot air which came out
through little ducts but I think it was quite unusual and novel at the time.

[Curlytop]

Graeme Wall set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

> Then there was Daz with the "new blue whitener" which always confused me
> as a child.

"Two colour printing (black/red/blue/green) available"
- Tech blurb for an inkjet printer.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:43:56 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 18:31:41 -0400, S Viemeister
><firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:

>
>>On 3/23/2013 6:02 PM, John Varela wrote:
>>
>>> In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
>>> and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
>>>

>>_Most_ houses in the US? It's a big country, and heating type varies
>>widely from area to area.
>
>I'd go along with "most". There are some in this area heated by
>electric baseboard heathers, and even some older ones with hot water
>piped under a terrazzo floor. Up north, radiators provided the
>heating in some houses.
>
>Still, most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts.

An interesting point, to me. On the other side of the main road near my
road, a whole estate of thousands of small houses was built, each heated
by ducted hot air. This is unusual for England, I would have thought,
in private houses as opposed to office blocks.

My friend Reg (who I introduced some years ago in "Everybody needs a
Reg") thought it was inefficient and quite cold in winter, so he removed
it from his house and installed bog-standard boiler/pipes/radiators. Any
neighbour who saw his installation said "I want one", and Reg got
himself years of work converting ducted air to pumped water for dozens
of people.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robin Bignall]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 00:04:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On 23 Mar 2013 22:02:47 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:23:18 UTC, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:44:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle
>>> <Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In the US a Water heater is a large tank heated with electricity or gas
>>> >that provides water to the whole house.
>>> >
>>> We also have those in the UK. We call them "hot water tanks" or in the
>>> plumbing trade, "hot water cylinders". The electric heating element is
>>> known as an "immersion heater". Some people use "immersion heater" to
>>> mean the tank with its electric heater.
>>> http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Cylinders_307.html
>>>
>>> >Many houses no longer have a gas or oil furnace,
>>>
>>> In BrE we don't use the word "furnace" for one of those. We would talk
>>> of a "central heating boiler". This is mildly illogical as we don't want
>>> the water in one of them to actually boil. :-)

>>
>>Then you're heating the house with hot water. Our house is heated
>>with hot water and technically the water is heated in a boiler, same
>>as you, though we call it a furnace anyway.
>>

>>In the US most houses are heated with hot air forced through ducts,
>>and the thing that heats the air is called a furnace.
>>
>>
>>

>>> > but have a Heat Pump,
>>> >that heats and cools the house by the expansion of a liquid. These units
>>> >usually have heating coils for the colder days. Is the more extreme
>>> >climates the Electric Coil are replaced by a gas fired unit.
>>
>>The heat pump is perhaps more easily explained as a refrigeration
>>unit whose action is reversible. In the summer it extracts heat from
>>the house and pumps it outdoors; in the winter it extracts heat from
>>the outdoors and pumps it into the house. The "outdoors" is usually
>>the atmosphere. Where the water table is high it can be used as the
>>source/sink for heat.
>
>In the UK some heat pump systems use a heat-exchange pipe buried in the
>ground.

I asked the installer of the climate control in our new orangery* about
that. He said that having underground versus air heat exchangers was
largely a matter of cost and maintainability. So we chose air and it
seems perfectly satisfactory in operation.
* orangery is finished but not fitted out yet, and some outside work is
awaiting suitable weather. Photos in due course.

[Robin Bignall]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:36:10 +0000, Graham P Davis
<new...@scarlet-jade.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:14:35 +0000
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ah, I hadn't realised that. Heating by hot air is very rare in UK -
>
>Many houses here built around 1970 had warm-air, ducted heating.
>Unfortunately, the design and implementation was so awful, I had to
>scrap the system and replace it with radiators.

Gosh, I just posted about that very point.

[Robin Bignall]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 08:31:26 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 24/03/13 12:44 AM, polygonum wrote:
>> On 23/03/2013 16:36, Graham P Davis wrote:
>> <>
>>>
>>> The one we had over the bath had a flue that went out through the wall
>>> so CO shouldn't have been a problem. However, after birds started
>>> nesting in it, that might not have been true. When the nest slipped
>>> down the flue and caught fire and the firemen ripped the flue out of
>>> the wall, we had no CO worries as we had no geyser. Personal hygiene
>>> became the next worry.
>>>
>>> This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
>>> what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a

>>> bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
>>> laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only

>>> agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
>>> ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
>>> beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
>>> crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
>>> through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
>>> time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
>>> build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
>>> a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.
>>>
>> Poss stick
>>
>> http://www.oldandinteresting.com/washing-dollies.aspx
>>
>
>My grandma refused to touch the washing machine my uncle bought her and
>continued to use the copper, dolly tub and dolly peg up to at least the
>60s. I used to have a go with the dolly peg - it was hard work,
>especially with sheets. After that, it through the mangle and onto the line.

My mother did her washing that way until the mid-50s when we bought a
top-loading washing machine with a separate mangle that plugged into the
top. A Servis, if I recall. Later, in the 60s after my father died, I
bought her a twin-tub that she used until she had to go into a nursing
home.
That 'poss stick' was called a 'ponch' in my family.

[Katy Jennison]

Duh, yes, for some reason I imagined that an adverse effect was being
suggested. Brain cell needs de-coking.

--
Katy Jennison

[Whiskers]

On 2013-03-23, Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Graham P Davis set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
> continuum:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:07:12 +0000
>> Curlytop <pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE] set the following eddies spiralling through the
>>> space-time continuum:

[...]

>> This reminiscing about methods of heating water also makes me wonder
>> what people outside the UK would understand by a 'copper.' Not a
>> bobby or loose change but a cylinder in the kitchen for boiling
>> laundry; a predecessor of the washing machine where the only
>> agitation is done manually with the use of a 'copper-stick.' In
>> ours, the water was heated by gas and the lighting process was not
>> beneficial to anyone of a nervous disposition. You had to bend or
>> crouch down and poke a lighted taper - the longer the better -
>> through a hole in the bottom and hope the gas would light first
>> time. Unfortunately, it rarely did, waiting instead for a good
>> build-up of gas so finally there'd be a 'whoomph!' and
>> a gout of flame would burst from the front of the device.
>

> When I was little we had such a device in the house but never called it
> a "copper", it was a "boiler", probably because it wasn't made of copper
> but of galvanised steel. It consisted simply of a large tub with a tap at
> the bottom to empty it. How the water was supposed to be heated I never
> knew, since there was no gas connection, just a gap of about one foot
> underneath. (Had the gas burner already been removed?) I never saw it used,
> it was just taking up space in the house until one day it softly and
> suddenly vanished away.

Perhaps it was meant to be heated by a "gas ring"; these were gas hobs
connected to the gas supply by a flexible pipe so that they could be moved
around to some extent, so one could have been slid underneath your copper
when required, and left out on the worktop for cooking at other times. We
had such a gas ring installed in our kitchen re-fit in about 1960, but I
haven't seen any recently.

My grandmother's Victorian house, modernised in the '30s, had a "copper"
that was filled with hot water from a big kettle heated on the solid-fuel
stove. That house also had an ancient (19th century?) "geyser" in the
bathroom; it looked very impressive, lots of copper piping and cast iron,
but was a horror to use. We children were forbidden to touch it, or go
into the bathroom while it was running. I think the brand or model name
was "Geyser" - the volcanic reference was certainly apt.

In our 1950 new-build, out in the country, there was no mains gas supply.
We did have a "copper", electrically heated; it was portable, and whenever
possible it would be taken outside for use with the mains lead fed through
a window to be plugged in. It had to be filled using a hose-pipe, and
emptied by being tipped over (there was a concrete "gully" outside the
kitchen for the pupose). We had a "spin dryer" instead of Gran's huge
hand-operated "mangle" - but there was a small mangle or "wringer" for
individual items.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Graeme Wall]

My first house, early 70s, had hot air heating. It was positioned in
the middle of the house so had vents into the living room and dining
room and all 3 bedrooms, but not the bathroom, brrr!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Whiskers]

On 2013-03-23, J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <ef757cbd-b657-45a1...@h17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Mar 23, 6:47 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> As a student in the UK I lived in a cottage that had what I would call a
>>> geyser, but some of the other students called it an "immersion heater". To me
>>> an "immersion heater" is an electrical kettle element without the kettle, put
>>> in a cup of water to heat it up for makeing coffee or tea or other
>>> hot drinks.
>>>
>>The things that you can use to heat up a mug of coffee are also
>>immersion heaters.
>
> And I suspect not allowed under current regulations - I've not seen one
> on sale for ages, anyway (though I have one!). Would glow bright red if
> run not immersed!

[...]

They are readily available in the UK, from hardware or 'travel' shops and
in motorway service stations and airports - both car-battery powered and
mains powered, the latter usually 'multi-voltage'. One hopes that they now
have built-in safety devices to prevent over-heating!

[Nick Spalding]

Robin Bignall wrote, in <plbuk89nl8kh7jvd9...@4ax.com>
on Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:57:45 +0000:

I live on the original road on this estate and all the houses on it were
fitted with oil fired boilers and radiators. When the builders started
expanding up the hill they switched to gas fired hot air. After not
many years a lot of the purchasers of those switched to radiators.

When my boiler became unreliable after about forty years I changed to a
gas fired one but kept the radiators.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE