Aunt's sister-in-law
Thomas Scharle
Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
--
Tom Scharle scha...@nd.edu "standard disclaimer"
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <4nnnu1$s...@news.nd.edu>,
Broadcast on alt.usage.english
The lovely and talented sch...@chaucer.helios.nd.edu (Thomas Scharle) wrote:
> Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>
> Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
I think "shirttail" relation, as covered in a recent thread is
convenient enough.
Strictly speaking an aunt's sister-in-law (a parent's sister's
husband's sister) is no kin of Self. And a cousin's cousin,
if not Self, Self's siblings, or a cousin to Self, is no kin
to Self. Many traditions, however, acknowledge as kin any
two people who have one kinsperson in common: husband and
wife become kin through their children, etc., so if you
and y both claim x as kin, then you are related to y in some
way.
"Cousin" might be used today, as it was historically,
for anyone who has some claim of kinship, however remote or vague.
In truth, of course, pedigree is not the final arbiter of
kinship and the notion that it should be is a relatively
recent one. Not many geneologies are entirely free of
convenient fictions, the most common of which is that
the father is the wife's husband at the time of a birth.
--
=Lars Eighner===4103 Ave D (512)459-6693==Pawn to Queen Four==QSFx2==BMOC==
=eig...@io.com=Austin TX 78751-4617 ==Travels with Lizbeth==Bayou Boy==
= http://www.io.com/~eighner/ =====American Prelude==Gay Cosmos==
="Yes, Lizbeth is well."=======Whispered in the Dark==Elements of Arousal==
Steve MacGregor
Jene tajpis lastatempe Thomas Scharle:
| Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
| Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
shirt-tail relatives. My favorite shirt-tail relative is the great-uncle
of the husband of my great-great-aunt, an Indian chief and part-time
philosopher named "Seattle", who has a city named after him.
--
____ "Go: It's all fun and games, until someone loses an eye!"
(_) /: ,/
/___/ (_) Steve MacGregor, Phoenix, AZ
Truly Donovan
Thomas Scharle wrote:
>
> Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>
> Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
I believe we determined only recently that the term for these was
"shirt-tail relatives."
Truly Donovan
Mark Brader
> | Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
> | Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
I'd just say relatives.
> People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
> shirt-tail relatives.
Cousins are people who share a pair of linear ancestors but not closer
than two generations back from each cousin, or more specifically (first
cousins) exactly two generations back and not closer. Your "cousin's
cousin" is either your own cousin, a closer relative to you, or yourself.
This works no matter whether "cousin" is restricted for first cousin or not.
(If you generalize "cousin" to include half-cousins, where only one
ancestor is shared, then the preceding paragraph becomes false and
your cousin's cousin may be no relative of yours.)
> My favorite shirt-tail relative is the great-uncle
> of the husband of my great-great-aunt, an Indian chief and part-time
> philosopher named "Seattle", who has a city named after him.
Now that's a good example.
--
Mark Brader \ "'Settlor', (i) in relation to a testamentary trust,
m...@sq.com \ means the individual referred to in paragraph (i)."
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto \ -- Income Tax Act of Canada (1972-94), 108(1)(h)
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <1996May19....@sq.com>,
Broadcast on alt.usage.english
The lovely and talented m...@sq.com (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> | Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>> | Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
>
>I'd just say relatives.
>
>> People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
>> shirt-tail relatives.
>
>Cousins are people who share a pair of linear ancestors but not closer
>than two generations back from each cousin, or more specifically (first
>cousins) exactly two generations back and not closer. Your "cousin's
>cousin" is either your own cousin, a closer relative to you, or yourself.
>This works no matter whether "cousin" is restricted for first cousin or not.
No. Your cousin's cousin is not necessarily your cousin, even ignoring
the trivial cases in which your cousin's cousins are you and your
siblings.
For example, you might be cousin to x because you had grandparents
in common. (In which case you would be first cousins). But,
hanky-panky aside, everyone has two sets of grandparents.
You are cousin to X because your maternal grandparents are
his paternal grandparents. X is cousin to Y because his maternal
grandparents are the same as Y's maternal grandparents.
What is your relation to Y? None. The ancestors Y has in common
with X are not the same as the ancestors you have in common with
X.
In other words, if * stands for the relation "is cousin to"
If x*y then y*x
But it is NOT in general true
If u*x and x*y, the u*y.
Sorry, proportional font fans, here comes a diagram.
Adam=Brenda Carl=Dotty Edgar=Flora Glen=Hilda
\ /\ /\ /
\ / \ / \ /
Ian = Jane Kris = Linda Mark = Nora
| | |
Uri Xavier Yeats
U and X are cousins because C and D are grandparents of both U and X.
X and Y are cousins because E and F are grandparents of both X and Y.
U and Y are not related.
Mark Brader
> > cousin" is either your own cousin, a closer relative to you, or yourself.
>
> the trivial cases in which your cousin's cousins are you and your siblings.
Lars is of course correct, and for what it's worth, my erroneous posting
is now gone.
--
Mark Brader "You wake me up early in the morning to tell me I am
m...@sq.com right? Please wait until I am wrong."
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto -- John von Neumann, on being phoned at 10 a.m.
Polar
On 19 May 1996 18:05:53 GMT, sch...@chaucer.helios.nd.edu (Thomas
Scharle) wrote:
> Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>
> Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
In the Merkin South, they are called "kissin' cousins".
Polar
Hawker
In article <B+2nxAwZ...@io.com>,
eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
(snip)
>In truth, of course, pedigree is not the final arbiter of
>kinship and the notion that it should be is a relatively
>recent one. Not many geneologies are entirely free of
>convenient fictions, the most common of which is that
>the father is the wife's husband at the time of a birth.
And similarly, that the husband is not the father, which is
quite different from the father not being the husband "at
the time of birth".
Cheers
ron hawker
Shakib Otaqui
On 19 May, in article <4nnrao$h...@globe.indirect.com>
stev...@indirect.com "Steve MacGregor" wrote:
SM> Jene tajpis lastatempe Thomas Scharle:
SM> | Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
SM> | Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
SM>
SM> People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
SM> shirt-tail relatives. My favorite shirt-tail relative is the great-uncle
SM> of the husband of my great-great-aunt, an Indian chief and part-time
SM> philosopher named "Seattle", who has a city named after him.
After Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones divorced his child bride
Mandy Smith, his son (from a previous marriage) married Mandy's
mother, creating an interesting set of relationships: he became,
for example, his father's ex-stepfather-in-law, and both Mandy's
stepfather and ex-stepson. Best of all, he became his own
ex-stepgrandfather.
--
Kindred: fear of relatives.
_____________________________________________________________________
Shakib Otaqui Al-Quds Consult
Mark Odegard
Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed to
Shakib Otaqui <Sha...@alquds.demon.co.uk> who on Tue, 21 May
96 23:07:05 GMT wrote:
>On 19 May, in article <4nnrao$h...@globe.indirect.com>
> stev...@indirect.com "Steve MacGregor" wrote:
>SM> Jene tajpis lastatempe Thomas Scharle:
>SM> | Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>SM> | Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
>SM>
>SM> People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
>SM> shirt-tail relatives. My favorite shirt-tail relative is the great-uncle
>SM> of the husband of my great-great-aunt, an Indian chief and part-time
>SM> philosopher named "Seattle", who has a city named after him.
> After Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones divorced his child bride
> Mandy Smith, his son (from a previous marriage) married Mandy's
> mother, creating an interesting set of relationships: he became,
> for example, his father's ex-stepfather-in-law, and both Mandy's
> stepfather and ex-stepson. Best of all, he became his own
> ex-stepgrandfather.
While not technically incest, I think the convolutions of
these relationships explain why some cultures forbid such
relationships. Even the most forward-thinking Westerners
quease a bit at the idea of marrying your own
step-grandmother.
>--
>Kindred: fear of relatives.
"Kindred" is an interesting word. It's main use today seems
limited to heritable diseases, where epidemiologists trace a
geneology. Outside of serious geneological research, this
seems to the the *only* reason anyone would chase down 5th
or 6th cousins.
--
Mark Odegard. Ode...@ptel.net
Polar
On Wed, 22 May 1996 04:58:17 GMT, Ode...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard)
wrote:
>Posted to alt.usage.english & e-mailed to
>Shakib Otaqui <Sha...@alquds.demon.co.uk> who on Tue, 21 May
>96 23:07:05 GMT wrote:
>
>>On 19 May, in article <4nnrao$h...@globe.indirect.com>
>> stev...@indirect.com "Steve MacGregor" wrote:
>
>>SM> Jene tajpis lastatempe Thomas Scharle:
>>SM> | Aunt's sister-in-law, cousin's cousin, and so on.
>>SM> | Is there a convenient generic term to refer to such people?
>>SM>
>>SM> People who are not your relatives, but are related to them, are your
>>SM> shirt-tail relatives. My favorite shirt-tail relative is the great-uncle
>>SM> of the husband of my great-great-aunt, an Indian chief and part-time
>>SM> philosopher named "Seattle", who has a city named after him.
>
>> After Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones divorced his child bride
>> Mandy Smith, his son (from a previous marriage) married Mandy's
>> mother, creating an interesting set of relationships: he became,
>> for example, his father's ex-stepfather-in-law, and both Mandy's
>> stepfather and ex-stepson. Best of all, he became his own
>> ex-stepgrandfather.
>
>
>While not technically incest, I think the convolutions of
>these relationships explain why some cultures forbid such
>relationships. Even the most forward-thinking Westerners
>quease
Violation #2. This is California - where the misbegotten "3 strikes"
law is in effect. But has the violation been committed in California,
or where Mark hangs out (which is where?), or in cyberspace?
Interesting new field of law.
a bit at the idea of marrying your own
>step-grandmother.
I dunno. Depends on her qualifications for marriage (e.g., do you
want children and can she still have them) , and in any case, depends
on whether you like each other.
Polar
--
>
>>Kindred: fear of relatives.
>
>"Kindred" is an interesting word. It's = Its !!!
Mark. Pull. Yourself. Together!!!
main use today seems
>limited to heritable diseases, where epidemiologists trace a
>geneology. Outside of serious geneological research, this
>seems to the the *only* reason anyone would chase down 5th
>or 6th cousins.
Money?
Polar
James Eason
Polar!!! writes:
> main use today seems
> >limited to heritable diseases, where epidemiologists trace a
> >geneology. Outside of serious geneological research, this
> >seems to the the *only* reason anyone would chase down 5th
> >or 6th cousins.
>
> Money?
>
> Polar
Why, Polar, you cynic you! I didn't know you had it in you.
Actually, I have 200-odd first cousins, and more and more and more
third, fourth, fifth, removed, twice-removed, etc. cousins. They all
know each other and the exact kinship. We none of us have any money
whatsoever (I own an expensive bike and a cat, though). Needless to
say, I avoid the family homestead like the plague.
Another pointless personal anecdote from your servant,
James