new and improv'd

[Rich Ulrich]

"Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they
teach to actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used
as a descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.

Today's NY Times has an article that uses the past tense
as simply "improved" and it had enough context that I
stumbled only a little. It is clarified in the next sentence.

"To make the film, Slate and Camp spent a year and a half recording
improved audio sessions. Then their co-writer and editor, Nick
Paley, and Camp dedicated an equal amount of time turning those
snippets of improv into screenplay form."

I think that I don't mind "improved" when used in context.
I'm pretty sure I would not like it that way, out of context.

My first thought was "improvved" but I don't always accent
the second syllable. Writing "improv-ed" does not seem
entirely satisfactory, either, though I use more hyphens than
almost anyone.

Does "improv'd" suit, or does it seem affected, or what?

--
Rich Ulrich

[Peter T. Daniels]

The basic principles of English spelling lead to < improvved >.
To me, that doesn't indicate second-syllable stress.

rev, revs, revving, revved, revved, no? (Anyway, now we have
one more example of an English word ending with v.)

[Tony Cooper]

The article is:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/05/movies/jenny-slate-marcel-the-shell.html

I don't have a problem with "improved" spoken as "imPROVed" to mean
"by improvisation", but to use it in writing could lead to the reader
thinking "IMprooved" to mean "made better.

I would have written "To make the film, Slate and Camp spent a year
and a half recording improv audio sessions. Then their co-writer and

editor, Nick Paley, and Camp dedicated an equal amount of time turning
those snippets of improv into screenplay form."

But, then, the NYT has never offered me a job as a writer.


--

Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

[Mark Brader]

Rich Ulrich:

> "Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they
> teach to actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used
> as a descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.
>
> Today's NY Times has an article that uses the past tense

> as simply "improved"...

> My first thought was "improvved" but I don't always accent
> the second syllable.

I say it has to be that.

I also write "catalogged", and never mind how other people
inflect it.
--
Mark Brader "God help us if [the Nazis]'d won;
Toronto I cannot imagine their sitcoms."
m...@vex.net --James Lileks

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Peter Moylan]

On 07/09/21 11:45, Mark Brader wrote:
> Rich Ulrich:
>> "Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they teach to
>> actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used as a
>> descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.
>>
>> Today's NY Times has an article that uses the past tense as simply
>> "improved"...
>
>> My first thought was "improvved" but I don't always accent the
>> second syllable.
>
> I say it has to be that.
>
> I also write "catalogged", and never mind how other people inflect
> it.

I write "barbeck", but it doesn't have any influence at all on the
people who insist on spelling it "barbeque".

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Rich Ulrich]

On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 15:54:16 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 13:30:05 -0400, Rich Ulrich
><rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>"Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they
>>teach to actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used
>>as a descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.
>>
>>Today's NY Times has an article that uses the past tense
>>as simply "improved" and it had enough context that I
>>stumbled only a little. It is clarified in the next sentence.
>>
>> "To make the film, Slate and Camp spent a year and a half recording
>>improved audio sessions. Then their co-writer and editor, Nick
>> Paley, and Camp dedicated an equal amount of time turning those
>> snippets of improv into screenplay form."
>>
>>I think that I don't mind "improved" when used in context.
>>I'm pretty sure I would not like it that way, out of context.
>>
>>My first thought was "improvved" but I don't always accent
>>the second syllable. Writing "improv-ed" does not seem
>>entirely satisfactory, either, though I use more hyphens than
>>almost anyone.
>>
>>Does "improv'd" suit, or does it seem affected, or what?
>
>The article is:
>https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/05/movies/jenny-slate-marcel-the-shell.html

Thanks for supplying the link.

>
>I don't have a problem with "improved" spoken as "imPROVed" to mean
>"by improvisation", but to use it in writing could lead to the reader
>thinking "IMprooved" to mean "made better.
>
>I would have written "To make the film, Slate and Camp spent a year
>and a half recording improv audio sessions. Then their co-writer and
>editor, Nick Paley, and Camp dedicated an equal amount of time turning
>those snippets of improv into screenplay form."

I didn't notice - It does still make sense if you change "improvved"
(I accept the preferred version) to "improv" like that. To me, the
nuance is not entirely the same.

>
>But, then, the NYT has never offered me a job as a writer.

--

Rich Ulrich

[Lewis]

In message <ebjcjg59e5p2cfl0q...@4ax.com> Rich Ulrich <rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they
> teach to actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used
> as a descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.

How recent must a word be to be "recent"? Improv must be at least 50
years old, as I heard it in the 70s, and I cannot imagine I was the
first to hear it. Granted, improv now is a bit different than improv
then. On a guess I would say it is more like 70 or 80 years old and I
would not be shocked, though surprised, to learn it has its origins in
vaudeville..

> Does "improv'd" suit, or does it seem affected, or what?

Improved seems perfectly normal to me. English has many words that
require context to know how to pronounce them (I know how to read, so I
read the book last week).

Improv'd is am old (early 1800's) form of writing improved (the
non-comedy one), and everything I saw on a quick glance at google ngram
from before 1950 appeared to be "improv." as an abbreviation for
improvement, as in

"Danville Va elec light & power 1941 4428 street improv 1941 428."

There is also "impro" but I do not know how old that is, and I've not
heard it in the wild, though I have seen it in the title of a book.


--
They say only the good die young. If it works the other way too I'm
immortal

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 15:23:21 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <ebjcjg59e5p2cfl0q...@4ax.com> Rich Ulrich <rich....@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "Improv" is recent as a noun and a verb. It is what they
>> teach to actors in classes. "Improvisation" may still be used
>> as a descriptor, but "improv" is widespread.
>
>How recent must a word be to be "recent"? Improv must be at least 50
>years old, as I heard it in the 70s, and I cannot imagine I was the
>first to hear it. Granted, improv now is a bit different than improv
>then. On a guess I would say it is more like 70 or 80 years old and I
>would not be shocked, though surprised, to learn it has its origins in
>vaudeville..
>

I moved to Chicago in 1960 and rented an apartment in "Old Town". The
apartment was in a house that had been divided into apartments, and my
apartment had a short hallway that ended in a door that was no longer
openable.

I soon found that some conversations of the occupants of the apartment
on the other side of that door could be heard in my apartment. From
what I could hear, it seemed like the two occupants were rehearsing
lines from some play or creating lines for a play they were writing.

I ran into one of the occupants a few weeks later as he was leaving
the building and found out that he was working as a server in a place
called "Second City". He said he hoped to be taken on a cast member
there. He worked in the original Second City location on Wells
Street.

I had never heard of "Second City", so I stopped by one afternoon.
In those days, Second City had a bar and restaurant that was open in
the afternoon and evening before the night's performance started. A
server in the bar told me that the performances included "improv"
sketches where customers suggested topics and the performers would
riff on the topic.

All new to this naive Hoosier, but I became a regular customer of
Second City. It was one of the places I took my now-wife on dates a
few years later.

I never caught the names of the two who lived in that apartment on the
other side of the door. For all I know, they made the cast and then
became famous performers like Stephen Colbert. (Colbert started
working at Second City in 1987 in the box office)

Full disclosure: The above mentioned "apartment" was an odd layout of
two rooms and a bath. One room was almost completely taken up by the
sleeper couch when it was pulled out into a bed, and the kitchen was
the other room. The bathroom was off the kitchen. There was no
closet, so clothes were hung on a rack in the kitchen.

Somewhat typical of buildings built as single residences and later
converted to apartments.

[Adam Funk]

I thought the punchline was going to be that the two neighbors had
been rehearsing their "improv" act.

> Full disclosure: The above mentioned "apartment" was an odd layout of
> two rooms and a bath. One room was almost completely taken up by the
> sleeper couch when it was pulled out into a bed, and the kitchen was
> the other room. The bathroom was off the kitchen. There was no
> closet, so clothes were hung on a rack in the kitchen.
>
> Somewhat typical of buildings built as single residences and later
> converted to apartments.
>
>
>


--

I used to be better at logic problems, before I just dumped
them all into TeX and let Knuth pick out the survivors.
---plorkwort

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:30:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2021-09-07, Tony Cooper wrote:

> > I soon found that some conversations of the occupants of the apartment
> > on the other side of that door could be heard in my apartment. From
> > what I could hear, it seemed like the two occupants were rehearsing
> > lines from some play or creating lines for a play they were writing.
> >
> > I ran into one of the occupants a few weeks later as he was leaving
> > the building and found out that he was working as a server in a place
> > called "Second City". He said he hoped to be taken on a cast member
> > there. He worked in the original Second City location on Wells
> > Street.
>

> I thought the punchline was going to be that the two neighbors had
> been rehearsing their "improv" act.

Umm ... had been _what_ing?

[Adam Funk]

Hence the scare quotes around "improv"!


--
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents,
not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
---Abbie Hoffman

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 10:30:11 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2021-09-08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:30:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2021-09-07, Tony Cooper wrote:

> >> > I soon found that some conversations of the occupants of the apartment
> >> > on the other side of that door could be heard in my apartment. From
> >> > what I could hear, it seemed like the two occupants were rehearsing
> >> > lines from some play or creating lines for a play they were writing.
> >> > I ran into one of the occupants a few weeks later as he was leaving
> >> > the building and found out that he was working as a server in a place
> >> > called "Second City". He said he hoped to be taken on a cast member
> >> > there. He worked in the original Second City location on Wells
> >> > Street.
> >> I thought the punchline was going to be that the two neighbors had
> >> been rehearsing their "improv" act.
> > Umm ... had been _what_ing?
>
> Hence the scare quotes around "improv"!

It's unlikely that anyone who'd been at Second City (or any improv
group) would "rehearse," since (a) the essence is being unrehearsed
and (b) each skit begins with (random) suggestions from the audience.

(The waitstaff continued to function, albeit quietly, during the show,
so he would have seen them in action.)

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:16:32 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2021-09-08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:30:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> > I soon found that some conversations of the occupants of the apartment
>>> > on the other side of that door could be heard in my apartment. From
>>> > what I could hear, it seemed like the two occupants were rehearsing
>>> > lines from some play or creating lines for a play they were writing.
>>> >
>>> > I ran into one of the occupants a few weeks later as he was leaving
>>> > the building and found out that he was working as a server in a place
>>> > called "Second City". He said he hoped to be taken on a cast member
>>> > there. He worked in the original Second City location on Wells
>>> > Street.
>>>
>>> I thought the punchline was going to be that the two neighbors had
>>> been rehearsing their "improv" act.
>>
>> Umm ... had been _what_ing?
>
>Hence the scare quotes around "improv"!

Well, I got the joke.

Actually, rehearsing an improv sketch - while it sounds contradictive
- is not that far-fetched a description.

The actors develop skits in which the fed aspects can be brought into.
By "fed aspects", I mean what the audience members suggest.

At Second City, the actors would ask the audience to provide the
situation. Audience members would shout out various situations and
the actors would choose which to use.

An audience member might shout out "A man proposing to a woman". Then
the actor would ask for additional conditions. An audience member
might shout out "On the Titantic". The actors would then ask for more
conditions. This process may involve 20 or 30 different conditons
proposed by various audience members.

The actors can select a few of the conditions that can be fit into a
skit they've rehearsed. That's part of their training as improv
actors. The skill is being able to fit the suggestions into an
already-prepared skit and to develop skits that lend themselves to
different conditions.

[charles]

In article <hpihjg1cbe06emglv...@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper

<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:16:32 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:

> >On 2021-09-08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, September 8, 2021 at 8:30:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> >>> On 2021-09-07, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >>> > I soon found that some conversations of the occupants of the
> >>> > apartment on the other side of that door could be heard in my
> >>> > apartment. From what I could hear, it seemed like the two
> >>> > occupants were rehearsing lines from some play or creating lines
> >>> > for a play they were writing.
> >>> >
> >>> > I ran into one of the occupants a few weeks later as he was leaving
> >>> > the building and found out that he was working as a server in a
> >>> > place called "Second City". He said he hoped to be taken on a cast
> >>> > member there. He worked in the original Second City location on
> >>> > Wells Street.
> >>>
> >>> I thought the punchline was going to be that the two neighbors had
> >>> been rehearsing their "improv" act.
> >>
> >> Umm ... had been _what_ing?
> >
> >Hence the scare quotes around "improv"!

> Well, I got the joke.

> Actually, rehearsing an improv sketch - while it sounds contradictive -
> is not that far-fetched a description.

It is well known in the theatre that the best "ad-libs" are the well
rehearsed ones.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Rich Ulrich]

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 16:33:42 +0100, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

On the other hand, "practicing their improv skills" could
sound like rehearsing an act.

In my first apartment after college, my next door neighbors,
a couple in their 20s, would sound like they were having a
terrible fight (this happened more than once) which ended
with them breaking out in laughter. I still don't understand.

What I remember besides that is that they once invited me
over for dinner and fed me a delicious, juicy rare steak. I had
never had a steak that was not "medium" and dry.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Sam Plusnet]

The first improvs I recall were the topical or instant calypsos devised
by Lance Percival[1] in TW3[2] in 1962/3.

[1] John Lancelot Blades Percival at the christening font.

[2] That Was The Week That Was.

--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2021-09-08 19:05:07 +0000, Sam Plusnet said:

> On 08-Sep-21 16:33, charles wrote:

[ … ]

>> It is well known in the theatre that the best "ad-libs" are the well
>> rehearsed ones.
>>
> The first improvs I recall were the topical or instant calypsos devised
> by Lance Percival[1] in TW3[2] in 1962/3.
>
> [1] John Lancelot Blades Percival at the christening font.

Now there's a name I had pretty much forgotten. Indeed, looking at his
manly features at Wikipedia I find I barely remember him at all, though
I used to see him every week on:

>
> [2] That Was The Week That Was.


--

Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.