Pissing Contest
Mark Farley
From time to time in my life, I've heard the expression "pissing
contest" used to describe a situation, but it's never been 100%
clear to me exactly what that means. I've come to a conclusion
or two on my own, however, and I thought I'd bounce my ideas out
into the group and see what others think.
As best as I can tell, the figurative meaning of "pissing contest"
is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take
turns putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in
which vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems
to be to put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to
emerge the undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate
description?
Now, the etymology seems fairly obvious, *except* that, from what
I've been able to find out, in a literal pissing contest, the
object is simply to see who can urinate the farthest. I also
ran across one description of a literal pissing contest which
was described as a match to see who could hold their urine the
longest. Contrast these to what I would conceive as the literal
equivalent of the figurative meaning: a "contest" (if it could
be called such) in which the object is to urinate on everybody
else more than one is urinated on oneself. So far I haven't
encountered any descriptions of a literal "pissing contest"
like that.
Comments?
Regards,
Mark Farley
My real e-mail address is of the form A@B.C, where
A = mefarley
B = airmail
C = net
P.S.: Let's please not let this topic degenerate into a pissing
contest! :)
Evan Kirshenbaum
> As best as I can tell, the figurative meaning of "pissing contest"
> is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take turns
> putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in which
> vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems to be to
> put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to emerge the
> undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate description?
I've heard it mostly used derogatorily to describe a situation in
which people are acting as if they are competing to see who can come
up with the biggest (or pettiest) complaint. The complaints needn't
be directed at one another.
> Now, the etymology seems fairly obvious, *except* that, from what
> I've been able to find out, in a literal pissing contest, the
> object is simply to see who can urinate the farthest.
One of the only memorable lines from the otherwise completely
forgettable movie _Gung Ho_:
American auto worker: ... and then we piss for distance.
(drunken) Japanese exec: With us, it is accuracy.
> I also ran across one description of a literal pissing contest which
> was described as a match to see who could hold their urine the
> longest. Contrast these to what I would conceive as the literal
> equivalent of the figurative meaning: a "contest" (if it could be
> called such) in which the object is to urinate on everybody else
> more than one is urinated on oneself. So far I haven't encountered
> any descriptions of a literal "pissing contest" like that.
The image I always got was of of two pre-teen boys reduced to "Oh,
yeah? Well, I can piss further than you can". It wouldn't surprise
me, however, if it actually derived from a sense of "pissing" meaning
"complaining" or some such.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When all else fails, give the
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |customer what they ask for. This
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |is strong medicine and rarely needs
|to be repeated.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
N.Mitchum
------
> which people are acting as if they are competing to see who can come
> up with the biggest (or pettiest) complaint. The complaints needn't
> be directed at one another.
That's not how I understand "pissing contest." To me it means an
adolescent competition aimed at proving who's superior and refers
directly to a real situation: two or more boys stand side by side
and see which can piss the farthest. In the figurative sense
they're not making complaints; they're trying to dominate one
another, to prove which is stronger and manlier.
----NM
Gary G. Taylor
<ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>Mark_...@NOSPAM.allowed (Mark Farley) writes:
>The image I always got was of of two pre-teen boys reduced to "Oh,
>yeah? Well, I can piss further than you can". It wouldn't surprise
>me, however, if it actually derived from a sense of "pissing" meaning
>"complaining" or some such.
Cf the expression "piss and moan," meaning to complain
excessively, to whine, to bleat. ("Bleat, Watson--unmitigated
bleat!" --Sherlock Holmes.)
Gary G. Taylor 29 Palms, CA
Reply to gary > donavan * org
http://www.donavan.org
Freedom is the best revenge.
Mark Farley
>On 05 Nov 1999 11:27:33 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
><ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
>>Mark_...@NOSPAM.allowed (Mark Farley) writes:
>
>>The image I always got was of of two pre-teen boys reduced to "Oh,
>>yeah? Well, I can piss further than you can". It wouldn't surprise
>>me, however, if it actually derived from a sense of "pissing" meaning
>>"complaining" or some such.
Actually, I *didn't* write the above. (Please see my original
post). Evan Kirshenbaum wrote it. But, no biggie!
M.E.F.
P&D Schultz
> <...>
> two or more boys stand side by side
In 1950s Detroit, the contest took place in the alley, and the object
was to make the highest urine mark on the back of a garage. Detroit is a
very sophisticated place.
//P. Schultz
Charles Riggs
Farley) wrote:
>As best as I can tell, the figurative meaning of "pissing contest"
>is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take
>turns putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in
>which vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems
>to be to put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to
>emerge the undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate
>description?
No, and since none of the six responses I read this morning came close
to expressing the precise meaning of the term, which is unusual for
a.u.e., I'll add my two pence worth.
A "pissing contest" refers to an argument where the two opponents
present their personal views on a topic with an unwillingness to bend
to the other's viewpoint. It refers to a pointless argument which is
likely to go on and on and is bound to get nowhere. Thus, the name.
Like the literal adolescent pissing contest, nothing of substance is
likely to be proved at its conclusion.
In business, when a person refers to a "pissing contest" it is nearly
always because he anticipates such an argument and wants to avoid the
necessity for it. For example, one participant in a meeting might say
to another "We all know that your views on this proposal differ
considerably from mine so there is no need for us to enter a pissing
contest over it". Thus, "pissing contests" are referred to, but don't
generally actually happen.
Charles Riggs
Michael West
Charles Riggs <ri...@RemoveThiseircom.net> wrote in message
news:8r0jOJ=HlzduscwBK...@4ax.com...
>
> In business, when a person refers to a "pissing contest" it is nearly
> always because he anticipates such an argument and wants to avoid the
> necessity for it. For example, one participant in a meeting might say
> to another "We all know that your views on this proposal differ
> considerably from mine so there is no need for us to enter a pissing
> contest over it". Thus, "pissing contests" are referred to, but don't
> generally actually happen.
But they do! When Grimly disagrees with me and produces irrefutable evidence
in support of his position, he is engaging in a pissing content. When I do
the same to him, I am just -- once again -- saving the company some money.
--
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
Matt Gibson
<EF9C3D13D74E9B1B.72A1A8D2...@lp.airnews.net>,
Mark_...@NOSPAM.allowed says...
> To all who are reading this, greetings.
>
> From time to time in my life, I've heard the expression "pissing
> contest" used to describe a situation, but it's never been 100%
> clear to me exactly what that means. I've come to a conclusion
> or two on my own, however, and I thought I'd bounce my ideas out
> into the group and see what others think.
(Bear in mind that I'm British, and it might mean something completely
different over here.)
Every time that I've heard the phrase used it's been derogatory, used to
describe any form of competition, most often between men, which seems to
the observer to be as important as a pissing contest (in the true sense
of a competition to see who can urinate the furthest up a wall, over the
furthest distance, etc.)
So one might hear a conversation in which two men are trying to outdo
each other when talking about the capabilities of their sports cars, and
say, "Sounds like yet another expensive pissing contest."
More recently, I've heard the term "dick-sizing" used interchangably,
again referring to any pointless competition or debate between men.
M
--
"It's the gaps between the rain that count,
and learning how to live amongst them"
-- Jeff Noon, _Pixel Juice_
Matt Gibson http://www.gothick.dial.pipex.com
TJ
>
> In article
> <EF9C3D13D74E9B1B.72A1A8D2...@lp.airnews.net>,
> Mark_...@NOSPAM.allowed says...
> > To all who are reading this, greetings.
> >
> > From time to time in my life, I've heard the expression "pissing
> > contest" used to describe a situation, but it's never been 100%
> > clear to me exactly what that means. I've come to a conclusion
> > or two on my own, however, and I thought I'd bounce my ideas out
> > into the group and see what others think.
>
> (Bear in mind that I'm British, and it might mean something completely
> different over here.)
>
> Every time that I've heard the phrase used it's been derogatory, used to
> describe any form of competition, most often between men, which seems to
> the observer to be as important as a pissing contest (in the true sense
> of a competition to see who can urinate the furthest up a wall, over the
> furthest distance, etc.)
>
> So one might hear a conversation in which two men are trying to outdo
> each other when talking about the capabilities of their sports cars, and
> say, "Sounds like yet another expensive pissing contest."
>
> More recently, I've heard the term "dick-sizing" used interchangably,
> again referring to any pointless competition or debate between men.
>
to convey a sense of mean-spiritedness in a petty dispute, in that in
order to win, someone must stoop to a very dirty level. If I were to say
"I don't want to get into a pissing contest (or match) with my roommate"
I would be implying that said roommate is being childish, petty, and
taking something to an immature extreme, and that I really was in the
right and could 'win' but I choose not to stoop so low.
I use roommate as an example, but in my recall I have always heard it
applied to a co-worker.
tj
rka...@adsl-151-203-22-73.bellatlantic.net
>More recently, I've heard the term "dick-sizing" used interchangably,
>again referring to any pointless competition or debate between men.
In my experience, "dick-sizing" has more to do with showing off.
Rachel
Joseph C Fineman
>Now, the etymology seems fairly obvious, *except* that, from what
>I've been able to find out, in a literal pissing contest, the object
>is simply to see who can urinate the farthest. I also ran across one
>description of a literal pissing contest which was described as a
>match to see who could hold their urine the longest.
I once actually observed a contest in which the point was to melt a
bar of ice in two in the shortest time. Evidently the idea is
gratifying enough in the abstract that various concrete realizations
can find favor.
>Contrast these to what I would conceive as the literal equivalent of
>the figurative meaning: a "contest" (if it could be called such) in
>which the object is to urinate on everybody else more than one is
>urinated on oneself. So far I haven't encountered any descriptions
>of a literal "pissing contest" like that.
Perhaps the underlying metaphor is "demonstrate superior penile
potency = masculinity = dominance".
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: We can learn a lot about ourselves by studying the lower :||
||: animals, especially those of our own species. :||
Neil Bradley
> is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take
> turns putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in
> which vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems
> to be to put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to
> emerge the undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate
> description?
Sort of, yes. A pissing contest is a pointless discussion/competition
where the major focus of the discussion/competition is to show that you
can show the other guy up. I speak from experience. ;-p I've been in
many a pissing contest.
-->Neil
Lindsay Endell
Sounds a bit like the "willy-waving" which is indulged in when
technical people start going on about how "my" operating
system/computer set-up is better than "yours".
Linz
--
Oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn't say.
http://www.gofar.demon.co.uk/ - Issue 2.0 available now
In AUE all Englishes are equal, though each is more
equal than all the others. Bob Lieblich, aue
John Holmes
Mark Farley wrote in message ...
>As best as I can tell, the figurative meaning of "pissing contest"
>is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take
>turns putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in
>which vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems
>to be to put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to
>emerge the undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate
>description?
>
Not really. It is more about people fiercely trying to outdo each other in
some way that is utterly trivial. It doesn't necessarily involve
put-downs, as in name-calling, except by implication. A classic example
would be the sort of thing that children often engage in:
A: My Dad's got a new car.
B: Yeah? Well my Dad's got two new cars.
C: That's nothing. My Dad owns a whole fleet of cars.
etc.
>Now, the etymology seems fairly obvious, *except* that, from what
>I've been able to find out, in a literal pissing contest, the
>object is simply to see who can urinate the farthest.
I think the original idea was to see who could piss highest up a wall,
especially of a urinal, but perhaps there's a distance record as well.
There's an old joke, the full details of which I don't remember, but it
involves a nun reporting to the priest about how she found the Catholic
school boys engaging in a pissing contest with the Protestant boys after
school.
Priest: And what did you do about it, Sister.
Nun: Well naturally, Father, I hit the roof.
--
Regards,
John.
Rushtown
>From: "John Holmes" hol...@smart.net.au
>Date: Sat, 06 November 1999 07:59 PM EST
>Message-id: <802mpj$a2d$2...@perki.connect.com.au>
>
>
>Mark Farley wrote in message ...
>
>>As best as I can tell, the figurative meaning of "pissing contest"
>>is a bickering session, in which two or more participants take
>>turns putting the other(s) down in a mean-spirited way, and in
>>which vulgarisms are employed. The object of the contest seems
>>to be to put the opponent(s) down so strongly and so well as to
>>emerge the undisputed victor. Does this sound like an accurate
>>description?
>>
>Not really. It is more about people fiercely trying to outdo each other in
>some way that is utterly trivial. It doesn't necessarily involve
>put-downs, as in name-calling, except by implication. A classic example
>would be the sort of thing that children often engage in:
>A: My Dad's got a new car.
>B: Yeah? Well my Dad's got two new cars.
>C: That's nothing. My Dad owns a whole fleet of cars.
>etc.
>
>>Now, the etymology seems fairly obvious, *except* that, from what
>>I've been able to find out, in a literal pissing contest, the
>>object is simply to see who can urinate the farthest.
>
>I think the original idea was to see who could piss highest up a wall,
>especially of a urinal, but perhaps there's a distance record as well.
When lawyers say "This case is going to be a real pissing contest." They mean
it's a "spite suit" and each side will paper the other to death and be petty
and fight every point.
Truly Donovan
<ri...@RemoveThiseircom.net> wrote:
>In business, when a person refers to a "pissing contest" it is nearly
>always because he anticipates such an argument and wants to avoid the
>necessity for it. For example, one participant in a meeting might say
>to another "We all know that your views on this proposal differ
>considerably from mine so there is no need for us to enter a pissing
>contest over it". Thus, "pissing contests" are referred to, but don't
>generally actually happen.
Any participant who says that has decided to bypass the pissing
contest and go straight to the character assassination--basically, it
says "if you try to debate my judgment on this matter, you are
juvenile and *I'm* not."
Inasmuch as I have often heard past events referred to as "pissing
contests," I think I can be safely assumed that pissing contests
actually happen--they are just not generally announced as such in
advance.
--
Truly Donovan
tr...@lunemere.com
*Chandler's Daughter* [Write Way Publishing, Jan 2000]
Noah Claypole
news:EF9C3D13D74E9B1B.72A1A8D2...@lp.airnews.net...
> else more than one is urinated on oneself. So far I haven't
> encountered any descriptions of a literal "pissing contest"
> like that.
>
In summer months in Brighton, from time-to-time, a large dog may escape the
leash and come lumbering along the beach, pissing on beach chairs, coolers,
picnic baskets, or whatever strikes his fancy. Needless to say, many
beach-goers find this very annoying.
While many have suggested that a 'pissing contest' evokes an image of
adolescent lads engaged in adolescent play, perhaps a more apt image is that
of male dogs marking their turf. Which is done by urinating on (hopefully)
stationary objects.
The 'contest' being which dog controls the largest territory. This is a
readily transportable metaphor to describe the dynamics of mid and upper
level management in corporate life.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Inasmuch as I have often heard past events referred to as "pissing
>contests," I think I can be safely assumed that pissing contests
>actually happen--they are just not generally announced as such in
>advance.
I wasn't saying they never happen. It is my experience, though, that
one most often hears "pissing contest" preceded by the words "I don't
want to get into a" and followed by "with you".
Charles Riggs
Padraig Breathnach
>While many have suggested that a 'pissing contest' evokes an image of
>adolescent lads engaged in adolescent play, perhaps a more apt image is
that
>of male dogs marking their turf. Which is done by urinating on (hopefully)
>stationary objects.
>
I was about to make the same point, having just observed (but taken part) in
such an event. I have a large dog temporarily lodging with me. This morning
Sam, a neighbour's dog which regards my garden as part of his range, turned
up and marked territory at my back door. Frankie (the incomer) pissed over
it. Sam pissed again. Frankie responded. Sam went a third time. Frankie
over-pissed again. Sam gave up. I think that he has a smaller bladder than
Frankie.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
>
>In my experience, "dick-sizing" has more to do with showing off.
>
PB
James Follett
tr...@lunemere.com "Truly Donovan" writes:
>Inasmuch as I have often heard past events referred to as "pissing
>contests," I think I can be safely assumed that pissing contests
>actually happen--they are just not generally announced as such in
>advance.
They certainly took place at my school although the favoured
ammunition wasn't piss. One could cheat by persuading a girl
to lend a hand although they weren't always good aimers, thus
obliging one to wait ten minutes before making a second attempt.
Ah... Those were the days... When boys were issued with high-velocity
repeating rifles instead of single shot target pistols.
--
James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
"Dominator/Mirage" (Random House/Arrow) ISBN: 0-09-187003-8 now in print.
"Earthsearch II" BBC Worldwide. ISBN: 0-563-55866-0. Tapes now available.
"The Temple of the Winds" and "Wicca" available from Severn House in 2000.
Michael West
Padraig Breathnach <padr...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:tQEV3.360$fs5....@news.iol.ie...
Female dogs as well. When we go for walks, my two are constantly rewriting
each other's territorial claims. They always seem to have a drop or two
reserved for that purpose, no matter how many times they've gone already.
Roger Standing
--
N.Mitchum <aj...@lafn.org> wrote in message news:38235E...@lafn.org...
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> >.....
>
> That's not how I understand "pissing contest." To me it means an
> adolescent competition aimed at proving who's superior and refers
> directly to a real situation: two or more boys stand side by side
> and see which can piss the farthest. In the figurative sense
> they're not making complaints; they're trying to dominate one
> another, to prove which is stronger and manlier.
>
>
From my practical experience this is the origin. As one grows up it tends to
become an argument for the sake of an argument, both sides are trying to win
over a point which is not really important
Roger.
Marion Gevers
>There's an old joke, the full details of which I don't remember, but it
>involves a nun reporting to the priest about how she found the Catholic
>school boys engaging in a pissing contest with the Protestant boys after
>school.
>Priest: And what did you do about it, Sister.
>Nun: Well naturally, Father, I hit the roof.
You've reminded me of a pissing contest I once witnessed, where the goal
was to get over the outside fence of the boys' toilet block. One boy
succeeded in spectacular fashion. Not only did he get over the fence,
he also scored a direct hit on the nun who was walking past at the time.
She was not amused.
Primary school toilets are an important part of the educational
process. If it weren't for them, I might never have learnt that it was
possible to light a fart.
--
Peter Moylan
Noah Claypole
news:80m3jm$4ar$3...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au...
>
> Primary school toilets are an important part of the educational
> process. If it weren't for them, I might never have learnt that it was
> possible to light a fart.
>
Upon seeing levity, I cannot resist contributing. Note that it is both
seasonal and on-topic.
Riding the favourite at Cheltenham, a jockey was well ahead of the field.
Suddenly he was hit on the head by a turkey and a string of sausages. He
managed to keep control of his mount and pulled back into the lead, only to
be struck by a box of Christmas crackers and a dozen mince pies as he went
over the last fence.
With great skill he managed to steer the horse to the front of the field
once more when, on the run in, he was struck on the head by a bottle of
sherry and a Christmas pudding. Thus distracted, he succeeded in coming only
second.
He immediately went to the stewards to complain that he had been seriously
hampered.