Misle
Arlene & Peter
Greetings, Peter,
Thanks much for the following (under "Words not in the Dictionary"):
I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
past tense).
For many years, I have gotten back blank stares from people when I
referred to "misling (misleing?)" others. But yours is the first
reference I have ever seen to this verb.
The matter reminds me of the OLD joke:
Boy: Do you like Kipling?
Girl: I don't know. I've never kippled.
Peter H. Ten Eyck
P. Breathnach
Arlene & Peter wrote:
>
> I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
> and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
> dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
> past tense).
>
did.
Which one of you (Arlene or Peter) did not know it?
PB.
LLThrasher
Arlene & Peter wrote:
>
> Greetings, Peter,
>
> Thanks much for the following (under "Words not in the Dictionary"):
>
> and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
> dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
> past tense).
>
> referred to "misling (misleing?)" others. But yours is the first
> reference I have ever seen to this verb.
I misread 'misled' for years until one day I heard someone read it
aloud. "To misle" seemed such a logical verb, sort of like firing off a
missle and watching it go astray. I kind of miss it.
Linda
http://www.teleport.com/~baty
PS My 15 year-old was distressed to discover that epitome is a
four-syllable word, not a three-syllable word. Seems she used it (and
pronounced it ep-i-tome) in an oral report at school. None of the other
students laughed and the teacher didn't correct her pronunciation, so I
wonder just how many people think she was saying it right.
L.L.
P. Breathnach
Ralph M Jones wrote:
>
> A back formation from the past tense of 'mislead'.
>
Well! I'd never have guessed!
PB.
Arlene & Peter
Sorry about all this. For some strange reason, mail "To News" does not
routinely go out, so I am duplicating this message in an attempt to get
the Cursed Device to accept the mailing.
Subject: Misle
Date:
Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:10:18 -0400
From:
Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net>
CC:
ar_...@ids.net
Newsgroups:
alt.usage.english
Greetings, Peter,
Thanks much for the following (under "Words not in the Dictionary"):
I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
past tense).
For many years, I have gotten back blank stares from people when I
referred to "misling (misleing?)" others. But yours is the first
reference I have ever seen to this verb.
The matter reminds me of the OLD joke:
Truly Donovan
P. Breathnach wrote:
>
> Arlene & Peter wrote:
> >
> > I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
> > and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
> > dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
> > past tense).
> >
> did.
>
> Which one of you (Arlene or Peter) did not know it?
Both of them, obviously. Otherwise, they would style themselves
Arlene/Peter.
--
Truly Donovan
"Industrial-strength SGML," Prentice Hall 1996
ISBN 0-13-216243-1
http://www.prenhall.com
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <01bc729d$1b193500$072c7dc2@default>, "P. Breathnach"
<padr...@iol.ie> writes:
As a child, I thought the officer was a war hero. His beribones were misling
me.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
James Wallis
In article <339828...@ids.net>, Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net>
wrote:
>The matter reminds me of the OLD joke:
>
>Boy: Do you like Kipling?
>Girl: I don't know. I've never kippled.
Or the line from one of Spike Milligan's books, on a sergeant-major
addressing some troops:
"In a few minutes the Lieutenant will be giving you men a lecture on
Keats... and I don't suppose any of you higgerant bastards even knows
what a Keat is."
--
James Wallis, Director of Hogshead Publishing (ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
Publishers of WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAY (wf...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
(Warhammer is a trademark of Games Workshop Ltd, and is used with permission)
Joseph C Fineman
Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net> writes:
>I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know and use the
>verb "misle", but I don't know of any dictionary that lists it
>(except, of course, in the past tense).
See _Quiddities: An Intermittently Philosophical Dictionary_ by W. V.
Quine (Harvard U.P., 1987), s.v. Misling.
When I was little, I imagined that lengthening the wavelength of light
was _infraring_ it. (_So_ smart!)
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: You shall love your crooked neighbor :||
||: With your crooked heart. :||
Arlene & Peter
Truly Donovan wrote:
> P. Breathnach wrote:
> > Arlene & Peter wrote:
> > > and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
> > > dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
> > > past tense).
> > did.
> > Which one of you (Arlene or Peter) did not know it?
> Both of them, obviously. Otherwise, they would style themselves
> Arlene/Peter.
Hi, Truly,
No, you've uncovered TWO errors of mine.
1) I quoted the "at least half the readers" passage from Peter Moylan's
posting on the subject "Words not in the dictionary" (aue, June 6), and
failed to attribute it properly.
2) I forgot to sign my own posting "Peter".
Sorry about that, chief.
Peter
P. Breathnach
Maureen Goldman wrote:
> I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> completely over my head.
>
> Haven't a clue what this is about.
>
Maureen:
Sorry to have misled you.
PB.
Maureen Goldman
I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
completely over my head.
Haven't a clue what this is about.
---
Maureen Goldman
To reply, please remove {nospam] from address
Maureen Goldman
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
> > I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> > completely over my head.
> >
> > Haven't a clue what this is about.
> >"P. Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Maureen:
> Sorry to have misled you.
Well, it isn't as though you sent me on a wild goose chase down the
garden path.
sigh! I *guess* that I understand.
Arlene & Peter
Joseph C Fineman
James Wallis <Ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
>"In a few minutes the Lieutenant will be giving you men a lecture on
>Keats... and I don't suppose any of you higgerant bastards even knows
>what a Keat is."
I myself was once asked, by a student seeing I had a book on Hobbes,
what hobbes were.
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: The universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but :||
||: queerer than we can suppose. :||
Ralph M Jones
Well, I guess that I got trolled, didn't I.
Lee Rudolph
j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) writes:
>James Wallis <Ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>"In a few minutes the Lieutenant will be giving you men a lecture on
>>Keats... and I don't suppose any of you higgerant bastards even knows
>>what a Keat is."
>
>I myself was once asked, by a student seeing I had a book on Hobbes,
>what hobbes were.
And I, myself, was once (in 1969, asking directions on a Boston
streetcorner) joshed by a policeman who saw that I was carrying
J. Frank Adams's book on Lie groups: "You need a book to tell
when someone is shittin' you?" (The "Lie" in "Lie groups" is
of course pronounced /li/ -- at least in English -- and is the
family name of a mathematician who was lucky enough to bear the
given name "Sophus".)
Lee Rudolph
Mike Connally
In article <01bc7357$c27c3440$0b2c7dc2@default>, "P. Breathnach"
<padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
> > I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> > completely over my head.
> >
> > Haven't a clue what this is about.
>
>
And I had always thought I was unique in having derived the word
'misle' from 'misled'. Was probably 12 or 14 years old before I
twigged to 'mislead'.
Mike
--
Mike Connally Reading, England
'At 50, everyone has the face he deserves.' - George Orwell
Truly Donovan
Maureen Goldman wrote:
>
> I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> completely over my head.
>
> Haven't a clue what this is about.
It refers to an experience shared by very many of us here in AUE -- when
as children we first encountered the word "misled" in print, we mentally
assigned it the pronunciation "mizzled" and knew beyond a doubt that it
was the past tense of "to misle" (pronounced "to mizzle"). By the way,
we had no issue about what it meant -- we always got it right from the
context. It was only a number of years later that we learned, to our
chagrin, that this was the past tense of "mislead," a word with which we
were also quite familiar. With luck, we managed to learn this without
public embarrassment (the private one being quite bad enough).
What is most curious about this is the large percent of the population
(at least the population here, which of course is rather special in this
regard) who had this same experience with this very word, this being the
first place we've ever been able to share it without embarrassment.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <339B09...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan
<nospam...@lunemere.com> writes:
> -- when as children we first encountered the word "misled" in print, we
> mentally assigned it the pronunciation "mizzled" and knew beyond a doubt that
> it was the past tense of "to misle" (pronounced "to mizzle").
No, no, no! It's pronounced my-zuhl.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Robin or David
Truly Donovan wrote:
>
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
> >
> > I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> > completely over my head.
> >
> > Haven't a clue what this is about.
>
> as children we first encountered the word "misled" in print, we mentally
> assigned it the pronunciation "mizzled" and knew beyond a doubt that it
> was the past tense of "to misle" (pronounced "to mizzle").
Thanks -- I hadn't a clue either until this latest posting (about "to
misle"). Though that one never happened to trip me up (proving what about
each person's visual processing of text, I don't know...), I still
stumble about half the time -- every time -- I scan the sequence
"infrared," stopping to puzzle out the meaning of that learned, Latinate
verb "to infrare" (and failing to, once again, every time). :)
Dave
Joseph C Fineman
Truly Donovan <nospam...@lunemere.com> writes:
>What is most curious about this is the large percent of the
>population (at least the population here, which of course is rather
>special in this regard) who had this same experience with this very
>word, this being the first place we've ever been able to share it
>without embarrassment.
I have seen several references in print to the commonness of this
error, but the one in Quine mentioned in my previous posting is the
only one I can pin down. About 30 years ago I knew some people who
routinely used "misle" in speech, as a sort of self-mockery -- only,
we pronounced it with a long i. (Perhaps, indeed, the s should be
silent as in "isle".)
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: Many are born impatient; the lucky ones become cabdrivers. :||
Maureen Goldman
Okay... um...
How about "quay"?
Maureen Goldman
Robin or David <bea...@erols.com> wrote:
> Thanks -- I hadn't a clue either until this latest posting (about "to
> misle"). Though that one never happened to trip me up (proving what about
> each person's visual processing of text, I don't know...), I still
> stumble about half the time -- every time -- I scan the sequence
> "infrared," stopping to puzzle out the meaning of that learned, Latinate
> verb "to infrare" (and failing to, once again, every time). :)
This happens to me fairly frequently when I'm playing Scrabble since
the words have no context. Sometimes I won't recognize a word until I
pull back [figuratively] and look at it again.
Gwen Lenker
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting <will...@ahecas.ahec.edu>
wrote in article <1997Jun8.155708.1@ahecas>...
> > mentally assigned it the pronunciation "mizzled" and knew beyond a
doubt that
> > it was the past tense of "to misle" (pronounced "to mizzle").
>
> No, no, no! It's pronounced my-zuhl.
You've got to be kidding! It's obvious that "misle" rhymes with "isle".
"Misled" must, then, be pronounced exactly like "mild".
Arlene & Peter
Gwen Lenker wrote:
> Gary Williams wrote: Truly Donovan writes:
> > > -- when as children we first encountered the word "misled" in print, we
> > > mentally assigned it the pronunciation "mizzled" and knew beyond a
> doubt that
> > > it was the past tense of "to misle" (pronounced "to mizzle").
> > No, no, no! It's pronounced my-zuhl.
> You've got to be kidding! It's obvious that "misle" rhymes with "isle".
> "Misled" must, then, be pronounced exactly like "mild".
I always thought of it as Gary did. But Gwen brought in a NEW THOUGHT
(to me, at least), and on reflection I must agree with her
interpretation.
Peter
Just fleshing this out so that "To:News" will mail successfully, to try
to avoid the hideous "duplicate message"!
Peter
Arlene & Peter
RON BANISTER
TD>What is most curious about this is the large percent of the population
TD>(at least the population here, which of course is rather special in this
TD>regard) who had this same experience with this very word, this being the
TD>first place we've ever been able to share it without embarrassment.
And back we go to coworking. :)
---
* SLMR 2.1 *
Richard Pence
While admitting to numeours gaffes in both interpretation and
pronounciation of first-encountered words, I never fell victim to the
"Misle" and "infare" syndrome. Something keeps telling me that when a
verb ends in an "e" you don't form its past tense by adding a "d."
(E.g., make - made.)
Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this? I've been trying to
think of a present-tense verb ending in "e" that has a past tense
formed by adding a "d" and can't come up with one. I'm sure someone
will.
Maureen Goldman
Truly Donovan <nospam...@lunemere.com> wrote:
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
> >
> > Okay... um...
> >
> > How about "quay"?
>
> I still secretly read "kway."
Same here. Fortunately, when the word comes up in conversation, it is
attached to an honest-to-gosh place, so adjustment is easy.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <339C45...@ids.net>, Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net> writes:
> Gwen Lenker wrote:
>> You've got to be kidding! It's obvious that "misle" rhymes with "isle".
>> "Misled" must, then, be pronounced exactly like "mild".
>
> I always thought of it as Gary did. But Gwen brought in a NEW THOUGHT
> (to me, at least), and on reflection I must agree with her
> interpretation.
I stand corrected. But of course, the theme of this thread was
mispronunciation of words. I certainly see now that Gwen is exactly right, and
that I have been misprouncing "misle" and "misled" all these years, and I
promise to change.
But only when reading silently, of course.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
In article <339cf200...@news.sunshine.net>, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) writes:
> I've read approx. 10 messages here on "misle", and so far it has gone
> completely over my head.
>
> Haven't a clue what this is about.
Some folk believe that misled is the past tense of a regular verb <to
misle>. Others know it to be the past tense of an irregular verb
<to mislead>.
For those who insist on misle as an infinitive: Is it a stronger
concept that mislead? Does it mean to con? Having encountered those
who used it, I believe it does not have the accidental connotation
that mislead can carry.
While I never made this gaffe, I did have to become fully grown before
I learned that awry is properly divided as a-wry and not aw-ry.
--
Nyal Z. Williams
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
Wendy Mueller
I'm not sure where my comments fit in this thread, but they are
related somehow. I was explaining the humor of this 'misle' thread to
my engineering-brained husband, and he just didn't get it at all. To
him, it made no sense to connect misled with anything other than
mislead.
Then I had one of those moments of connection myself. Just yesterday
morning, I had read in the science and discoveries section of the
Dallas Morning News about a certain research project that was putting
forth the idea that people store the formula for conjugating regular
verbs on one side of the brain, and they store the irregular verbs on
the other side.
My husband, the logical, straight-forward type, made the "this is an
irregular verb" connection first because he uses that side of his
brain predominately. I, thinking with the other side of the brain,
made the other connection. I'll put forth my own theory that most of
the people who have discovered the word misle are creative thinkers,
ones who do not rely as much upon the logical, linear side of the
brain. Any comments?
--
Wendy Mueller
Maureen Goldman
richar...@pipeline.com (Richard Pence) wrote:
> While admitting to numeours gaffes in both interpretation and
> pronounciation of first-encountered words, I never fell victim to the
> "Misle" and "infare" syndrome. Something keeps telling me that when a
> verb ends in an "e" you don't form its past tense by adding a "d."
> (E.g., make - made.)
>
> Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this? I've been trying to
> think of a present-tense verb ending in "e" that has a past tense
> formed by adding a "d" and can't come up with one. I'm sure someone
> will.
??? I can think of lots of them.
saved, filed, believed, moused, moved...
Gwen Lenker
Wendy Mueller <dag...@pipeline.com.remove.this> wrote in article
<5njp5v$4...@camel1.mindspring.com>...
[...]
>
> My husband, the logical, straight-forward type, made the "this is an
> irregular verb" connection first because he uses that side of his
> brain predominately. I, thinking with the other side of the brain,
> made the other connection. I'll put forth my own theory that most of
> the people who have discovered the word misle are creative thinkers,
> ones who do not rely as much upon the logical, linear side of the
> brain. Any comments?
I hesitate to sum up my thinking style in a single word or phrase, but I'm
the one who once yelled, "Could we STOP hiring so many talented, creative
people and get a few more *competent* ones in here for a change?!"
When a child sees an unfamiliar word in print and attempts to apply "rules"
he or she has inferred from experience with other words (e.g., misle rhymes
with isle), I'd call that an application of linear thinking. When an adult
sees an unfamiliar word in print and seizes upon the opportunity to
transform it into whatever he or she *wants* it to be, I'd call that an
application of -- the other kind.
Language evolution, as so many have pointed out here, is not linear.
Eventually, people who think logically realize this fact and turn to
outside sources, like reference books and this newsgroup, for assistance
when logic alone fails to provide illumination.
LLThrasher
Truly Donovan wrote:
>
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
> >
> > Okay... um...
> >
> > How about "quay"?
>
> I still secretly read "kway."
>
"Kway" is wrong? Oh, no-o-o-o-o-o!
linda
Albert Marshall
Richard Pence <richar...@pipeline.com> wrote
<Snip misle-aneous bits>
>Something keeps telling me that when a
>verb ends in an "e" you don't form its past tense by adding a "d."
>(E.g., make - made.)
>
>Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this? I've been trying to
>think of a present-tense verb ending in "e" that has a past tense
>formed by adding a "d" and can't come up with one. I'm sure someone
>will.
>
probably fade away before this posting appears.
--
Albert Marshall
Executive French
Language Training for Businesses in Kent
01634 400902
Truly Donovan
Richard Pence wrote:
> Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this? I've been trying to
> think of a present-tense verb ending in "e" that has a past tense
> formed by adding a "d" and can't come up with one. I'm sure someone
> will.
Are you by any chance waiting with bated breath?
Maureen Goldman
00nzwi...@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote:
> While I never made this gaffe, I did have to become fully grown before
> I learned that awry is properly divided as a-wry and not aw-ry.
It is?
[short interval for trip to dictionary and return]
oh.
K. Edgcombe
In article <01bc75d5$754d1100$626ebdcc@preinstalledcom>,
O&W <noc...@clemson.campus.mci.net> wrote:
>
>
>Wendy Mueller <dag...@pipeline.com.remove.this> wrote in article
><5njp5v$4...@camel1.mindspring.com>...
>>
>> him, it made no sense to connect misled with anything other than
>> mislead.
>> My husband, the logical, straight-forward type, made the "this is an
>the brain,
>> made the other connection. (M)ost of the people who have discovered the
>word
>misle are creative thinkers.... Any comments?
>
But inventing "misle" from "misled" is a logical and straightforward thing to
do. It is surely those who don't follow the obvious path laid out in front of
them who will spot that something irregular is going on.
I certainly "invented" misle (can you invent something when hundreds of other
people have already invented it?), and I'm a non-creative mathematician.
Incidentally, since this has been going on for a long time, I suspect that some
people who think they "invented" misle as children actually picked it up from
parents who were using it in a jocular fashion - parents who would have been,
had they had the chance, regulars on a.u.e.
Katy
Brian J Goggin
On Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:16:50 GMT, richar...@pipeline.com (Richard
Pence) wrote:
[...]
>Something keeps telling me that when a
>verb ends in an "e" you don't form its past tense by adding a "d."
>(E.g., make - made.)
>
>Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this?
I think you've been misled.
bjg
P. Breathnach
Truly Donovan wrote:
>
> Who's going to pass by an opportunity to say that they are a creative
> thinker. It just isn't done.
>
Truly, whose command of English is normally beyond reproach, disappoints me
here. The singular person of "who is" becomes the plural of "they are".
This looks to me like an example of gender-neutral writing which causes
people to break the rules of good usage. One should indeed strive to be
gender-neutral, but find ways of doing so which do not fracture the
language.
PB.
Adrian Pepper [MFCF]
Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net> wrote,
in article <33996D...@ids.net>:
>Truly Donovan wrote:
>> P. Breathnach wrote:
>> > Arlene & Peter wrote:
>> > > I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
>> > > and use the verb "misle", but I don't know of any
>> > > dictionary that lists it (except, of course, in the
>> > > past tense).
>> > Yes, I used it as a child. I suspect that most enthusiastic early readers
>> > did.
>> > Which one of you (Arlene or Peter) did not know it?
>> Both of them, obviously. Otherwise, they would style themselves
>> Arlene/Peter.
>
>Hi, Truly,
>
>No, you've uncovered TWO errors of mine.
>
>1) I quoted the "at least half the readers" passage from Peter Moylan's
>posting on the subject "Words not in the dictionary" (aue, June 6), and
>failed to attribute it properly.
>
>2) I forgot to sign my own posting "Peter".
>
>Sorry about that, chief.
Me farver says't 'is farver used to talk about people "misling out of
things"; i.e. avoiding them.
The OED has several entries for "mizzle", with the entry for a verb
form similar to that having the following citation:
1781 G. PARKER View Society II. 231 He preferred mizzling off to France.
The entry for "misle" is simply:
misle: see MISTLE, MIZZLE.
Which is how I happened to look up "mizzle".
Adrian Pepper
arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Adrian Pepper [MFCF]
anno...@lublin.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (Anno Siegel) wrote,
in article <5nis8u$ncl$1...@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>:
>Richard Pence <richar...@pipeline.com> wrote in alt.usage.english:
>
>>Does anyone else remember hearing/learning this? I've been trying to
>>think of a present-tense verb ending in "e" that has a past tense
>>formed by adding a "d" and can't come up with one. I'm sure someone
>>will.
>
>
>drizzle - drizzled
>adore - adored
>muse - mused
>love - loved
>bare - bared
>place - placed
>
>Someone make me stop.
mizzle - mizzled
And, someone who regularly runs one-mile races can be said to be a
"miler". The OED lists this.
So, when a "miler" runs their specialty race, they must be "miling",
and if they have finished such a race, they must have "miled".
Adrian Pepper
arpe...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Maureen Goldman
>LLThrasher <ba...@teleport.com> wrote:
> I was reading a magazine article in which a woman was described as a
> "cochair." I read it three times before I got it.
I don't suppose that there is an option to hyphenate... ?
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <339E29...@teleport.com>, LLThrasher <ba...@teleport.com> writes:
> RON BANISTER wrote:
>> And back we go to coworking. :)
>
> I was reading a magazine article in which a woman was described as a
> "cochair." I read it three times before I got it.
See why spelling with hyphens is useful. I still think cooperate (as distinct
from co-operate) must have something to do with barrelmaking.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
O.Det
Truly Donovan wrote:
[snip]
> --
> Truly Donovan
> "Industrial-strength SGML," Prentice Hall 1996
> ISBN 0-13-216243-1
> http://www.prenhall.com
Oh, I hope this isn't the sort of thing that's been heard so
many times to be sickening, but I thought her tone was so polite
that I could just imagine a note being signed:
Yours Truly,
...
(I hope it's pronounced "truely"...)
Truly Donovan
K. Edgcombe wrote:
>
> Incidentally, since this has been going on for a long time, I suspect that some
> people who think they "invented" misle as children actually picked it up from
> parents who were using it in a jocular fashion - parents who would have been,
> had they had the chance, regulars on a.u.e.
If that's what happened in my case, my parents suddenly stopped using it
in any fashion the very minute I first read "misled" in a book.
Nor has anyone else. It may be a common word in the other parts of the
world, but not in the several parts of the USA where I have lived.
Truly Donovan
O.Det wrote:
>
> Truly Donovan wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > --
> > Truly Donovan
> > "Industrial-strength SGML," Prentice Hall 1996
> > ISBN 0-13-216243-1
> > http://www.prenhall.com
>
> many times to be sickening, but I thought her tone was so polite
> that I could just imagine a note being signed:
>
> Yours Truly,
> ...
>
> (I hope it's pronounced "truely"...)
No, actually, it's pronounced the same as "truly." [Huh? Yeah, right.]
In my preadolescence, I had the misguided notion that it was engaging to
sign myself "yours, Truly" (never "Yours Truly,"), but I outgrew that.
In later years, I was the only person in my company who sent letters
closing with "sincerely yours" rather than the corporate standard "very
truly yours."
Robert Lieblich
I've long since lost the start of this thread, but everyone ought to
know by now what it's about.
So I invoke a sign I've seen in several government offices lately:
"Be alert. We need all the lerts we can get."
Bob Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
John Doherty
| Something keeps telling me that when a verb ends in an "e" you don't form
| its past tense by adding a "d."
Sorry, but whatever is telling you that is wrong:
ache, bake, cajole, declare, enclose, fake, garble, hate, inflame,
judge, kindle, like, move, notarize, owe, poke, quote, refuse, smoke,
type, use, vote, wade, yoke, zone
(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
P. Breathnach
John Doherty wrote: :
>
> | Something keeps telling me that when a verb ends in an "e" you don't
form
> | its past tense by adding a "d."
>
> Sorry, but whatever is telling you that is wrong:
>
> ache, bake, cajole, declare, enclose, fake, garble, hate, inflame,
> judge, kindle, like, move, notarize, owe, poke, quote, refuse, smoke,
> type, use, vote, wade, yoke, zone
>
other postings, does the rule hold?
PB.
Truly Donovan
It depends on what you want it to hold. If it's water, no. If it's
large, say, potatoes, maybe, but probably not. If it's a rock, it
wouldn't necessarily fall through the holes, but the whole thing is so
weak that it would probably tear open and dump the rock, too.
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <jdoherty-120...@aus-tx14-22.ix.netcom.com>,
jdoh...@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) wrote:
>In article <5nirh9$i...@camel1.mindspring.com>, richar...@pipeline.com wrote:
>
>| Something keeps telling me that when a verb ends in an "e" you don't form
>| its past tense by adding a "d."
>
>Sorry, but whatever is telling you that is wrong:
>
>ache, bake, cajole, declare, enclose, fake, garble, hate, inflame,
>judge, kindle, like, move, notarize, owe, poke, quote, refuse, smoke,
>type, use, vote, wade, yoke, zone
>
>(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
To x-ray, to Xerox, to x-rate. The last one is even useful for your point
(although I don't know that I'd ever use it as a verb. I definitely would
the other two).
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Truly Donovan
Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
>
> To x-ray, to Xerox, to x-rate. The last one is even useful for your point
> (although I don't know that I'd ever use it as a verb. I definitely would
> the other two).
You would probably use it if your name were, say, "Hayes."
Bill Shatzer
In a previous article, jdoh...@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) says:
>(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
X-ray?
Cheers,
--
- Bill Shatzer bsha...@orednet.org -
- Cave ab homine unius libri! -
Evan Kirshenbaum
In article <33A093...@erols.com>,
Robert R. Koblish <Xn3...@erols.com> wrote:
>Several words tripped me up as a lad, which my later study of French
>made clear:
>
>debris
Ouch! I never thought of that one that way.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |People think it must be fun to be a
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |super genius, but they don't
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |realize how hard it is to put up
|with all the idiots in the world.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(415)857-7572
Ralph M Jones
Bill Shatzer wrote:
>
> In a previous article, jdoh...@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) says:
>
> >(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
>
> X-ray?
Xerox.
LLThrasher
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>
> In article <33A093...@erols.com>,
> Robert R. Koblish <Xn3...@erols.com> wrote:
> >Several words tripped me up as a lad, which my later study of French
> >made clear:
> >
> >debris
>
> Ouch! I never thought of that one that way.
I recently received an advertisement from a company offering to do yard
work. Among other things, they remove " yard debree."
Linda
colf...@minn.net
When quite young, I once read aloud in class the word "nowhere" as
"now here." I knew better, but my brain just misinterpreted it that
day.
The only words I can remember reading and mentally mispronouncing (as
I learned later) are "facade" and "paradigm." I'm sure there were
others.
Carol from Mpls.
James Wallis
In article <33A378...@teleport.com>, LLThrasher <ba...@teleport.com>
wrote:
>
>I recently received an advertisement from a company offering to do yard
>work. Among other things, they remove " yard debree."
I have a (print) advert in front of me, which claims you can "make some
boo-koo bucks". Shame we can't crosspost between threads: that'd fit
well among the "and etcetera" examples of redundancy.
--
James Wallis, Director of Hogshead Publishing (ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
Publishers of WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLEPLAY (wf...@hogshead.demon.co.uk)
(Warhammer is a trademark of Games Workshop Ltd, and is used with permission)
Geoff Butler
Jeffrey Rollin <d.ro...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>
>Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net> wrote in article
>> I'll bet that at least half the readers of a.u.e. know
>>
>> For many years, I have gotten back blank stares from people when I
>> referred to "misling (misleing?)" others.
>
>The word "misled" comes not from a verb "to misle" but from "to mislead",
>i.e. to give someone the wrong info (deliberately or otherwise). It's
>therefore pronounced "miss-led", not "my-z'l"
I think you're suffering from a severe sense-of-humour failure. Do you
honestly believe that facts have any place in an entirely whimsical
dialogue? Or are you offering it as useful information on the mistaken
grounds that there exists somebody to whom this is news?
-ler
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.usa1.com>,
> In article <jdoherty-120...@aus-tx14-22.ix.netcom.com>,
> jdoh...@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) wrote:
>>(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
>
> To x-ray, to Xerox, to x-rate.
Uh-oh. I know this is a different thread, but if you don't pronounce that
second verb with a little r in a circle, won't the trademark police get you?
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Ralph M Jones
I reeally hate to see someone reprimanded for taking a posting
seriously. The nest step might be the institution of emoticons so that
the authors intent would not be subject to misunderstanding.
Gwen Lenker
colf...@minn.net wrote in article <33a37ed1...@news.minn.net>...
The silent "b" in "debt" really threw me as a child.
Add to that all the Greek-derived words that have already been mentioned.
And, more recently, "litotes".
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <1997Jun15.114228.1@ahecas>, will...@ahecas.ahec.edu (Gary
I had hoped the capital <X> would be enough.
da...@mother.com
"P. Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
I agree. Also, this case shows how a slight recast of the
sentence usually can solve the problem:
Who would pass by an opportunity to say that they are a
creative thinker?
This way, *who* can be plural and agrees with "they are."
Of course, I'm not suggesting that staying gender-neutral
is always easy--it can be a real pain in the ass! Still, con-
sider the example of author William Zinsser: He revised the
entire fourth edition of his book *On Writing Well* to be
gender-neutral--without breaking any rules such as using
*they* singularly, and without sounding awkward or unnatural.
--
Dave
Sacramento, CA (USA)
da...@mother.com
Robert Lieblich
da...@mother.com wrote:
>
> "P. Breathnach" <padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
> >Truly Donovan wrote:
> >>
> >> Who's going to pass by an opportunity to say that they are a creative
> >> thinker. It just isn't done.
> >>
> >Truly, whose command of English is normally beyond reproach, disappoints me
> >here. The singular person of "who is" becomes the plural of "they are".
> >This looks to me like an example of gender-neutral writing which causes
> >people to break the rules of good usage. One should indeed strive to be
> >gender-neutral, but find ways of doing so which do not fracture the
> >language.
> >
> >PB.
>
> I agree. Also, this case shows how a slight recast of the
> sentence usually can solve the problem:
>
> Who would pass by an opportunity to say that they are a
> creative thinker?
>
> This way, *who* can be plural and agrees with "they are."
No cigar. If the sentence was flawed before, it still is. The
dependent clause now reads ". . . they are a creative thinker." Still a
disagreement between sujbject and predicate nominative unless "they are"
is construed as the plural standing in for the singular. Which is how
Truly obviously intended it.
Others have defended Truly (including Truly herself, IIRC) as entitled
to such usage in casual conversation and writing, the latter of which we
tend to have even on a.u.e. I find it unattractive, and I try not to do
it (and wind up with a lot of "he or she"s as a result). but I don't
see it as something one ought to take strong exception to, and I just
let it pass without commenht. So if Truly and others similarly minded
care what I think (a premise very much open to question), they (Truly
and the others) have my blessing.
Add a couple of bucks to that and Starbucks will sell you coffee.
Bob Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
Truly Donovan
da...@mother.com wrote:
>
>
> Of course, I'm not suggesting that staying gender-neutral
> is always easy--it can be a real pain in the ass! Still, con-
> sider the example of author William Zinsser: He revised the
> entire fourth edition of his book *On Writing Well* to be
> gender-neutral--without breaking any rules such as using
> *they* singularly, and without sounding awkward or unnatural.
I can do that when I feel like it -- I've done it for the last 20 years
or so. But I'm not going to be bound by someone else's notion of
correctness when my own language instinct says that the only thing that
is wrong with this use of "they" is a bunch of old farts who say it is
wrong. Having once been one of those very same old farts, I know
whereof I speak.
Truly Donovan
Ralph M Jones wrote:
>
> I reeally hate to see someone reprimanded for taking a posting
> seriously. The nest step might be the institution of emoticons so that
> the authors intent would not be subject to misunderstanding.
And I really hate to see people wander into threads that have been going
on for some time and offer as a contribution what any twit could find in
any dictionary, as if none of us had had the wit to look it up before.
Maureen Goldman
> >>(I can't think of any verbs that start with "x".)
> > To x-ray, to Xerox, to x-rate.
will...@ahecas.ahec.edu (Gary Williams, Business Services
Accounting) wrote:
> Uh-oh. I know this is a different thread, but if you don't pronounce that
> second verb with a little r in a circle, won't the trademark police get you?
It can be pronounced?
Incidentally, "xerox" is a good Scrabble word... very handy for those
moments when one has two X's - or, more likely, a blank.
And verbs are never capitalized, product name or no.
---
Maureen Goldman
To reply, please remove {nospam] from address
colf...@minn.net
>Ralph M Jones wrote:
>>
>
>> I reeally hate to see someone reprimanded for taking a posting
>> seriously. The nest step might be the institution of emoticons so that
>> the authors intent would not be subject to misunderstanding.
>
>And I really hate to see people wander into threads that have been going
>on for some time and offer as a contribution what any twit could find in
>any dictionary, as if none of us had had the wit to look it up before.
Maybe he simply didn't get any of the earlier posts. I'd believe
that. When I retrieved "new" headers today (6/16), the dates on them
ranged from 6/12 to 6/16. I found some headers I hadn't read before
that were dated 6/13, but my server says, "Sorry. This message is no
longer available," even though I have the parameters set to save
messages for ten days. And Truly Donovan makes reference to a post I
never did see.
If any of you post anything you *really* want me to read, maybe you
should e-mail a copy to me. I *think* I'm getting all my e-mail these
days.
Carol from Mpls.
Bill Shatzer
In a previous article, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) says:
-snips-
>And verbs are never capitalized, product name or no.
I'd wager "Christianize" is always capitalized.
Geoff Butler
Ralph M Jones <rmj...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>Geoff Butler wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I think you're suffering from a severe sense-of-humour failure. Do you
>> honestly believe that facts have any place in an entirely whimsical
>> dialogue? Or are you offering it as useful information on the mistaken
>> grounds that there exists somebody to whom this is news?
>
>seriously. The nest step might be the institution of emoticons so that
>the authors intent would not be subject to misunderstanding.
I think you spelt 'reprimanded' and 'misunderstanding'.
-ler
Anandashankar Mazumdar
In article <5o57ic$1...@ednet2.orednet.org>,
bsha...@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) wrote:
>
>
> In a previous article, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) says:
>
> -snips-
>
> >And verbs are never capitalized, product name or no.
>
> I'd wager "Christianize" is always capitalized.
And "Anglicize."
Ananda
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
da...@mother.com
Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>No cigar. If the sentence was flawed before, it still is. The
>dependent clause now reads ". . . they are a creative thinker." Still a
>disagreement between sujbject and predicate nominative unless "they are"
>is construed as the plural standing in for the singular.
Boy, I really ate it on this one. I was focusing so much on making
the subject and verb agree that I overlooked the main part, the
predicate nominative! But hey, we're all allowed a major brain fart
now and then, right? It would have to be, "Who would pass by
an opportunity to say that they are creative thinkers?" Obviously,
that's a bit awkward, so I guess you'd have to *completely*
recast this sentence to solve the problem (unless I'm overlooking
something--again). Anybody else have any ideas?
O&W
da...@mother.com wrote in article <33a7785e...@news.mother.com>...
> Robert Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
. . they are a creative thinker."
>"Who would pass by an opportunity to say that they are creative thinkers?"
Who would hesitate to lay claim to being a creative thinker? Who would not
claim to be an original thinker? How many would not claim to be original
thinkers? Etc....
T. Shannon Gilvary
>I have a (print) advert in front of me, which claims you can "make some
>boo-koo bucks". Shame we can't crosspost between threads: that'd fit
>well among the "and etcetera" examples of redundancy.
I once received an invitation to a party that asked me to "RSVP, if
you please"
Maureen Goldman
> >> >And verbs are never capitalized, product name or no.
> >
> >>bsha...@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) wrote:
> >> I'd wager "Christianize" is always capitalized.
> >
> >So much for "never".
> >
> >Okay... then no capitalization of verbs created from product names.
>Mark Odegard
> But: paganize, shamanize, even ellronhubbardize. It's a conceit,
> a convention, that "christianize" should be capitalized, much as
> "He" when referring to God is capped, but "he" when referring to
> Zeus is not.
Don't disagree with you, but I tend to comply with my dictionary.
Maureen Goldman
> On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:19:13 GMT, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net
> (Maureen Goldman) wrote:
> >
> >Incidentally, "xerox" is a good Scrabble word... very handy for those
> >moments when one has two X's - or, more likely, a blank.
>poo...@ibm.net (Don Fearn) wrote:
> Oh goody; let's play Scrabble(R) then. I'll challenge your play of
> "xerox" and you'll miss a turn. It isn't in my Official Scrabble(R)
> Players Dictionary.
Good grief. I must have dreamed it. (I've really got to start having
more exciting dreams.)
ME
In article <33ac195f...@news.sunshine.net>,
inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) wrote:
But why? Dictionaries should reflect usage, not dictate it. Free yourself
from the tyrrany of the dictionary!!! Decapitalize where you see fit.
Normalize eccentric usage! Abolish excessive ullage!!!
T. Shannon Gilvary
On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:45:29 -0400, Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net>
wrote:
>Sometimes, as near as I can tell, a newsgroup posting refers to an
>earlier posting which I never saw. Does anyone know what's going on to
>make that happen?
A couple of possibilities:
A. The post never reached your server (for whatever reason) but the
reply did.
B. The reply beat the original post to your server.
C. The original post expired before you read it, but the reply did
not.
D. Depending on how you have your newsreader configured, if someone
changed the subject of the thread, your newsreader may have it in a
different thread. (As is in this case, my newsreader has split
"Misle" and "What am I missing?" into two separate threads.
probably more, but these are most common
Shannon
Brian J Goggin
On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:47:33 GMT, t...@monmouth.com.NO.JUNK.EMAIL (T.
Shannon Gilvary) wrote:
[...]
>A couple of possibilities:
>
>A. The post never reached your server (for whatever reason) but the
>reply did.
>
>B. The reply beat the original post to your server.
>
>C. The original post expired before you read it, but the reply did
>not.
>
>D. Depending on how you have your newsreader configured, if someone
>changed the subject of the thread, your newsreader may have it in a
>different thread. (As is in this case, my newsreader has split
>"Misle" and "What am I missing?" into two separate threads.
E. Your pigeon died along the way.
bjg
Brian J Goggin
On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:25:49 GMT, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net
(Maureen Goldman) wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:19:13 GMT, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net
>> (Maureen Goldman) wrote:
>> >
>> >Incidentally, "xerox" is a good Scrabble word... very handy for those
>> >moments when one has two X's - or, more likely, a blank.
>
>>poo...@ibm.net (Don Fearn) wrote:
>> Oh goody; let's play Scrabble(R) then. I'll challenge your play of
>> "xerox" and you'll miss a turn. It isn't in my Official Scrabble(R)
>> Players Dictionary.
>
>Good grief. I must have dreamed it. (I've really got to start having
>more exciting dreams.)
Just move across the Atlantic. Chambers, the official reference
dictionary for the UK National Scrabble Championship, lists "xerox" as
both noun and verb.
bjg
Markus Laker
Arlene & Peter <ar_...@ids.net>:
> Sometimes, as near as I can tell, a newsgroup posting refers to an
> earlier posting which I never saw. Does anyone know what's going on to
> make that happen?
Could be a number of things. The poster may have cancelled his posting.
The posting may have had a limited distribution (it's theoretically
possible for me to post an article to a.u.e which only British news
servers will carry, although, in practice, many news servers don't
observe the relevant header.) But, more'n likely, the posting simply
failed to propagate correctly. A machine or a link failed somewhere
between you and the poster, a message queue overflowed, and the posting
was lost.
My ISP advises that, if a message is important, it should be emailed as
well as posted. It's also appreciated if posters say whether a message
is an emailed copy of a posting.
I doubt that anyone can rival my newsfeed for sheer sloth, though. I
received several of William Ward's messages posted between the second
and the fifth of June -- on the fifteenth.
Markus Laker,
somewhere off the information dirt track.
>
> Peter
>
--
My newsfeed is dropping messages again.
*Please* send an emailed copy of any reply.
Geoff Butler
Maureen Goldman <inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net> wrote:
>> In a previous article, inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) says:
>> >And verbs are never capitalized, product name or no.
>
>>bsha...@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) wrote:
>> I'd wager "Christianize" is always capitalized.
>
>You're right! This isn't a verb that I had run across previously.
>So much for "never".
>
>Okay... then no capitalization of verbs created from product names.
Now that Lesson One (Never say "never" in a.u.e) is out of the way, I'd
like to take issue with your point. The questions that I have are:
- Are you sure?
- Really sure?
- Realio trulio sure?
- Why on earth should that be the case?
For counterexample
- I tried to post three times but I got Windows95ed.
- Two members of London Greenpeace are being McDonalded in the courts.
- He was Guinnessing in the pub when the sky fell in.
- He was Araldited to the ceiling by his feet.
all of which I would spell with a capital.
-ler
Bob Cunningham
ice...@panix.com (Dr. Richard Kimble) said:
[...]
>Sorry, but you have an outdated edition of the Official
>Scrabble(r) dictionary. A bunch of changes were made at the
>beginning of 1996, and XEROX is indeed acceptable. BTW,
>if people purchase the most current edition of said
>dictionary, they *still* won't be getting the list of words
>that is acceptable for tournament play. The Scrabble(r)
>dictionary sold in bookstores has been bowdlerized by Hasbro,
>so as not to offend children or their grandmothers.
How many Official Scrabble(r) dictionaries are there? I have one that
was published by Merriam-Webster Inc. in 1978. It has all of the
offensive words I can think of at the moment. The four-letter words for
excretory functions are there, as is the four-letter word for the female
pudendum.
It doesn't have "Xerox". In fact, as I recall from my SCRABBLE(r)
playing years, we didn't allow brand names or any proper nouns. If you
would allow "Xerox" would you also allow "Robert" or "Mary"?
The more I think about it the more surprised I am that "Xerox" would be
permitted in a SCRABBLE(r) contest. Both _The Random House Dictionary
of the English Language Second Edition Unabridged_ (1987 version) and
the 1993 _The Chambers Dictionary_ show "Xerox" capitalized and say that
it is a registered trademark. If your dictionary has "Xerox" but not
"Windex", "Endust", "Shinola" or a great many other trademark names, it
seems to me that it is terribly inconsistent.
Lee Rudolph
inkslinger@{NOSPAM}sunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) writes:
>> Don Fearn (poo...@ibm.net) wrote:
...
>> BTW,
>> if people purchase the most current edition of said
>> dictionary, they *still* won't be getting the list of words
>> that is acceptable for tournament play. The Scrabble(r)
>> dictionary sold in bookstores has been bowdlerized by Hasbro,
>> so as not to offend children or their grandmothers.
...
>I've been looking for a decent computer Scrabble game that isn't too
>pricy, with the full official dictionary.
You aren't paying attention, are you?
Lee Rudolph
Maureen Goldman
> Don Fearn (poo...@ibm.net) wrote:
>
> : Oh goody; let's play Scrabble(R) then. I'll challenge your play of
> : "xerox" and you'll miss a turn. It isn't in my Official Scrabble(R)
> : Players Dictionary.
>
> Sorry, but you have an outdated edition of the the Official
> Scrabble(r) dictionary. A bunch of changes were made at the
> if people purchase the most current edition of said
> dictionary, they *still* won't be getting the list of words
> that is acceptable for tournament play. The Scrabble(r)
> dictionary sold in bookstores has been bowdlerized by Hasbro,
> so as not to offend children or their grandmothers.
Then I didn't dream it! That's the update when they added "yo",
right? Very handy, is "yo". Particularly if you know someone named
Adrian.
I hadn't heard that the most recent Scrabble Dictionary was
incomplete, just that their computer game was. Wouldn't know, though.
I've been looking for a decent computer Scrabble game that isn't too
pricy, with the full official dictionary. For whatever reason, I am
unable to run Networdz on my computer - the introductory screen
appears with the name of the game; I click it and get a GPF.
Maureen Goldman
> ice...@panix.com (Dr. Richard Kimble) said:
>
> [...]
>
> >Sorry, but you have an outdated edition of the Official
> >Scrabble(r) dictionary. A bunch of changes were made at the
> >beginning of 1996, and XEROX is indeed acceptable. BTW,
> >if people purchase the most current edition of said
> >dictionary, they *still* won't be getting the list of words
> >that is acceptable for tournament play. The Scrabble(r)
> >dictionary sold in bookstores has been bowdlerized by Hasbro,
> >so as not to offend children or their grandmothers.
>
>ad...@lafn.org (Bob Cunningham) wrote:
> How many Official Scrabble(r) dictionaries are there? I have one that
> was published by Merriam-Webster Inc. in 1978. It has all of the
> offensive words I can think of at the moment. The four-letter words for
> excretory functions are there, as is the four-letter word for the female
> pudendum.
The list of officially accepted words is updated from time to time.
Mostly words are added, although a few are subtracted as well. You
won't find "fax" in your 1978 edtion, either.
> It doesn't have "Xerox". In fact, as I recall from my SCRABBLE(r)
> playing years, we didn't allow brand names or any proper nouns. If you
> would allow "Xerox" would you also allow "Robert" or "Mary"?
If it had a meaning in which a capital was not required, sure. Try
john, maryjane, louie, not to mention tom, dick, and harry...
> The more I think about it the more surprised I am that "Xerox" would be
> permitted in a SCRABBLE(r) contest. Both _The Random House Dictionary
> of the English Language Second Edition Unabridged_ (1987 version) and
> the 1993 _The Chambers Dictionary_ show "Xerox" capitalized and say that
> it is a registered trademark. If your dictionary has "Xerox" but not
> "Windex", "Endust", "Shinola" or a great many other trademark names, it
> seems to me that it is terribly inconsistent.
>
Webster's Collegiate (10th) has both Xerox and xerox. I think that
the distinction regarding inclusion of a brand name is made when a
word is also used in a collective sense - i.e., Coke for all colas, or
Xerox for all photocopiers.
colf...@minn.net
On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:53:00 GMT, ad...@lafn.org (Bob Cunningham)
wrote:
>t...@monmouth.com.NO.JUNK.EMAIL (T. Shannon Gilvary) said:
>
>[...]
>
>>D. Depending on how you have your newsreader configured, if someone
>>changed the subject of the thread, your newsreader may have it in a
>>different thread. (As is in this case, my newsreader has split
>>"Misle" and "What am I missing?" into two separate threads.
>
>That is often caused by people apparently not knowing -- or not caring
>-- that there is a fairly rigid format involved in changing the name of
>a thread. The subject line of this posting reveals that whoever devised
>it was guilty of that error.
That would be I--sorry. How on earth do people find out these things,
anyway? Our server provided no guidebooks, hint sheets, advice, or the
like. "You are now connected to the Internet" was pretty much the
extent of it.
Another like matter is this business of reading the F.A.Q. before
posting. I had no idea that was expected until I read someone being
chided for not doing so.
Yes, I know there are books and magazines available. There are
_hundreds_ of books and magazines available. Where to start? How to
know which are reliable? Some of us have limited time and money to
spend on this entertainment.
>
>If a thread has the subject line "Re: Misle" and you want to change it
>to "What am I missing?", the necessary format is:
>
> What am I missing? (was: Re: Misle)
>
>The parentheses and the colon after "was" are necessary if a threaded
>newsreader is to keep the two subject lines in the same thread.
>
>That's true of the Agent newsreader, anyway, and I think Greg Resch told
>us a long time ago that it's true in general.
Thank you for the information.
Carol from Mpls.
Keith C. Ivey
>You are probably right, but I'm a little surprised that the trademark attorneys
>have not been in contact with the publishers. As far as they would be
>concerned, one cannot "xerox" anything, at least not on equipment manufactured
>by any other maker; one can only "photocopy".
I'm sure the trademark attorneys have been in contact with the
publishers, but the publishers, being publishers, are aware that
there's not much the attorneys can do about it aside from
brandishing their briefcases. Stiff letters from trademark
attorneys may intimidate lesser folk, but publishers have
attorneys of their own and care a great deal about freedom of
the press.
Why on earth are do we have that "(R)" in the subject line?
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> Washington, DC
Contributing Editor/Webmaster
The Editorial Eye <http://www.eeicom.com/eye/>
Donna Richoux
<colf...@minn.net> wrote:
> That would be I--sorry. How on earth do people find out these things,
> anyway? Our server provided no guidebooks, hint sheets, advice, or the
> like. "You are now connected to the Internet" was pretty much the
> extent of it.
The quick answer -- set your newsreader to call up the newsgroup
"news.announce.newusers". You should find more advice there than you
wanna know about.
>
> Another like matter is this business of reading the F.A.Q. before
> posting. I had no idea that was expected until I read someone being
> chided for not doing so.
Just the kind of thing you'll see in news.announce.newusers.
Bob Cunningham said:
> >If a thread has the subject line "Re: Misle" and you want to change it
> >to "What am I missing?", the necessary format is:
> >
> > What am I missing? (was: Re: Misle)
> >
> >The parentheses and the colon after "was" are necessary if a threaded
> >newsreader is to keep the two subject lines in the same thread.
Darn it, the notes I kept after *I* was chided for renaming a thread
improperly say to use *brackets*. Surely I would not have written down
brackets (the square [] things) if I meant parentheses (the curved
things). Not that I ever had remarkable success with brackets. Would
someone please confirm these instructions?
Thanks --- Donna Richoux
Posted and emailed as Carol keeps moaning about her newsfeed
O.Det
> > For counterexample
> > - I tried to post three times but I got Windows95ed.
> > - Two members of London Greenpeace are being McDonalded in the courts.
> > - He was Guinnessing in the pub when the sky fell in.
> > - He was Araldited to the ceiling by his feet.
> > all of which I would spell with a capital.
>
Well, no he doesn't (was it a he? I forgot to look) -- *I* agree...
Why would you take a product name that is always capitalised
(for example, Win95 or Guinness) and uncapitalise it upon verbing?
Certainly the whole area of verbing is new, anyway, and I can't
imagine that there're hard and fast "rules" on this. Given that
we're still trying to decide if verbing itself is correct (no,
really -- it's still being debated!), it's hard for me to imagine
that there's a "right way" and a "wrong way" to do it. But, if
I were to speculate, as I am wont to do, I would lean toward the
idea of keeping the verbs capitalised. If for no reason other
than that it helps remove ambiguity and confusion about what
actually happened.
("He was guinnessing when..." "He was *what*?!... oh, he was
_G_uinnessing -- I get it..."
"I was win95ed." "You were *what*?!... oh, you were
_W_in-bull-dozed -- I get it...")
Bob Cunningham
colf...@minn.net said:
>On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:53:00 GMT, ad...@lafn.org (Bob Cunningham)
>wrote:
[...]
>>[Improper threading] is often caused by people apparently not knowing
>> -- or not caring -- that there is a fairly rigid format involved in
>>changing the name of a thread. The subject line of this posting
>>reveals that whoever devised it was guilty of that error.
>
>That would be I--sorry. How on earth do people find out these things,
>anyway?
People from the remote past tell people like Greg Resch who tell people
like me who tell people like you. It's like the lore of primitive
societies, not set down in books but passed on from generation to
generation by word of mouth -- in our case by word of keyboard.
Geoff Butler
>> >Okay... then no capitalization of verbs created from product names.
>
>>
>> Now that Lesson One (Never say "never" in a.u.e) is out of the way,
>
>
>> I;d like to take issue with your point. The questions that I have are:
>> - Are you sure?
>> - Really sure?
>> - Realio trulio sure?
>> - Why on earth should that be the case?
>>
>> - I tried to post three times but I got Windows95ed.
>> - Two members of London Greenpeace are being McDonalded in the courts.
>> - He was Guinnessing in the pub when the sky fell in.
>> - He was Araldited to the ceiling by his feet.
>> all of which I would spell with a capital.
>
>Live in your own little world, do you?
I'm completely at a loss about this question of yours. It doesn't seem
to a conversational gambit, nor justification of your original
assertion, so I can only assume it's an insult, but the point escapes
me. So, entering into the spirit of the thing,
Nyaah nyaah deyaah daah! (sp)
-ler
Bob Cunningham
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) said:
[...]
>Darn it, the notes I kept after *I* was chided for renaming a thread
>improperly say to use *brackets*. Surely I would not have written down
>brackets (the square [] things) if I meant parentheses (the curved
>things). Not that I ever had remarkable success with brackets. Would
>someone please confirm these instructions?
Here I am renaming the thread using square brackets. As I said in my
earlier posting, I'm not sure whether this works or not. We'll soon
know.
Bob Cunningham
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) said:
[...]
>Darn it, the notes I kept after *I* was chided for renaming a thread
>improperly say to use *brackets*. Surely I would not have written down
>brackets (the square [] things) if I meant parentheses (the curved
>things). Not that I ever had remarkable success with brackets. Would
>someone please confirm these instructions?
Okay, I renamed the thread using parens. All you have to do now to
confirm the instructions is to see if this posting threads properly.
I'm sure it will in my newsreader.
I will post another message using square brackets. We can then see if
that threads properly.
Markus Laker
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net>:
> Note: The following remarks all are meant to apply to the Netscape
> newsreader/web browser, which is what I am currently using to read
> this newsgroup. I have no personal knowledge of other newsreading
> software, since I've never found reading via Netscape to be a problem
> for me.
Please forgive my posting two test messages to a.u.e. Normally I'd find
somewhere more appropriate, but on this occasion the tests are relevant.
I've posted two messages as direct follow-ups to Nancy's message. This
one uses the standard method of changing the thread title, as I
understand it; the second one doesn't.
Please mail me privately, telling me which, if either, of these messages
you see as a follow-up to Nancy's message. I'll summarise the results
in a few days' time.
Markus Laker.
Markus Laker
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net>:
> Note: The following remarks all are meant to apply to the Netscape
> newsreader/web browser, which is what I am currently using to read
> this newsgroup. I have no personal knowledge of other newsreading
> software, since I've never found reading via Netscape to be a problem
> for me.
This is the second test message. It dosn't use the standard formula for
changing a thread title. The first message did. Please email me
privately, telling me which of these messages appeared as a direct
follow-up to Nancy's message. I'll summarise the results publicly in a