coined word
ne...@jaxnet.com
dinner table talking to a friend when I popped out with "apprecianado". did I
slip one out, is it already out there, can you easily fit a definition to
it?????
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RossHoward
>don't know if this is the correct ng. to post this to but I was sitting at the
>dinner table talking to a friend when I popped out with "apprecianado". did I
>slip one out, is it already out there, can you easily fit a definition to
>it?????
If it's supposed to be based on the "aficionado" model, it's
etymologically hopeless. *Afición* is a noun, meaning "liking", or
"keen interest". From this, a reflexive verb is derived --
*aficionarse*, which means "become keenly interested". The noun
*aficionado*, borrowed by English, is in turn derived from that verb,
and means "one who is keenly interested* (although it's often used as
a synonym for another loan word, "connoisseur", it doesn't -- at least
in Spanish -- imply any expert knowledge any more than it's real
English equivalents "fan" does).
"Apprecianado" is a mess, in the first place, because of the spelling.
Doubled consonants are rare in Spanish, and "appreciate" is
*apreciar*. Then, there's no equivalent on the *afición*/*aficionarse*
model -- *apreciación* exists but *apreciacionarse* doesn't. Of course
you could create it, but then you'd end up not with "apprecianado" but
with "apreciacionado".
Even if you buy that, you still have to decide what it's supposed to
mean and why anyone might have any call to use it.
In other words, like all counterfeit coins, it's worthless.
Ross H.
rigo...@table.jps.net
: don't know if this is the correct ng. to post this to but I was sitting at the
: dinner table talking to a friend when I popped out with "apprecianado". did I
: slip one out, is it already out there, can you easily fit a definition to
: it?????
Maybe an 'apprecianado' could be someone who just appreciates, but isn't a
full-fledged fan. We could come up with a whole range of terms, down
to 'despisionado' (despises) [or maybe 'despicador'??].
mike zorn
otel...@jps.net
(username spelled backwards. note how another Verdi opera
is hif\ding in the first one)
Armond Perretta
>RossHoward wrote: ... In other words, like all counterfeit coins, it's
worthless.
The US Secret Service is in the headlines these days, and many news agencies
have presented historical profiles of the Service. Evidently it was begun
to combat counterfeit operations during and after the US Civil War
(1861-65).
Mr. Howard's comment makes me wonder whether counterfeit coins dating from
the 1860's and '70's might not be quite valuable today. Surely
counterfeiting has a very long, if not honorable, history.
How much am I bid for a counterfeit gold coin stamped "21 BC"?
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat (remove "BOAT")
P&DSchultz
> ...
> How much am I bid for a counterfeit gold coin stamped "21 BC"?
And just how, may I ask, can you be so sure it's
counterfeit, Mr. Smartypants?
//P. Schultz
Armond Perretta
My numismatic deficiencies are equaled only by my linguistic shortcomings.
My bernaise sauce, however, is highly regarded.
Bun Mui
> Re: Counterfeit
>
> From: P&DSchultz <schu...@erols.com>
> Reply to: [1]P&DSchultz
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:17:22 -0400
> Organization: RCN Internet
> Newsgroups:
> [2]alt.usage.english
> Followup to: [3]newsgroup(s)
> References:
> [4]<6p62mk$4u1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> [5]<35b79413...@pumba.class.udg.mx>
> [6]<6pd3or$u96$1...@camel15.mindspring.com>
>
>Armond Perretta wrote:
>
>> ...
>> How much am I bid for a counterfeit gold coin stamped "21 BC"?
>
>And just how, may I ask, can you be so sure it's
>counterfeit, Mr. Smartypants?
It must be homemade.
Comments?
Bun Mui
N.Mitchum
-----
> If it's supposed to be based on the "aficionado" model, it's
>
> "Apprecianado" is a mess, [...]
>
> Even if you buy that, you still have to decide what it's supposed to
> mean and why anyone might have any call to use it.
>
That's one person's opinion. Certainly it's a lightweight word
and not strong enough to stand up under all this scrutiny, but I
liked it at first sight. I knew at once what it meant, just as I
understood instantly its association with "aficianado" and the
nicely implied difference between the two. It's like a joke
however: when you argue over it, it loses its punch.
--- NM
Mailers, drop HINTS
Truly Donovan
(RossHoward) wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:12:52 GMT, ne...@jaxnet.com wrote:
>
>>don't know if this is the correct ng. to post this to but I was sitting at the
>>dinner table talking to a friend when I popped out with "apprecianado". did I
>>slip one out, is it already out there, can you easily fit a definition to
>>it?????
>
>If it's supposed to be based on the "aficionado" model, it's
>etymologically hopeless. *Afición* is a noun, meaning "liking", or
>"keen interest". From this, a reflexive verb is derived --
>*aficionarse*, which means "become keenly interested". The noun
>*aficionado*, borrowed by English, is in turn derived from that verb,
>and means "one who is keenly interested* (although it's often used as
>a synonym for another loan word, "connoisseur", it doesn't -- at least
>in Spanish -- imply any expert knowledge any more than it's real
>English equivalents "fan" does).
>
>"Apprecianado" is a mess, in the first place, because of the spelling.
>Doubled consonants are rare in Spanish, and "appreciate" is
>*apreciar*. Then, there's no equivalent on the *afición*/*aficionarse*
>model -- *apreciación* exists but *apreciacionarse* doesn't. Of course
>you could create it, but then you'd end up not with "apprecianado" but
>with "apreciacionado".
>
>Even if you buy that, you still have to decide what it's supposed to
>mean and why anyone might have any call to use it.
>
>In other words, like all counterfeit coins, it's worthless.
That might be the case if yours were the only process by which it
could legitimately derive, but the Spanish language at this point has
absolutely nothing to do with it. "Aficionado" is an American English
word (it may be an OtherPondial English word, as well, but I simply
don't know if it is or is not). Therefore, it is subject to
noncification by any of the several processes whereby that occurs in
American English, in this case the surgical attachment of vital organs
from multiple words. This was an entirely legitimate American English
noncification, meeting the acidest test I provide in my test suite --
I got it right away.
It also met the second test in the suite -- I liked it. Therefore
there was no need to apply the rest of the tests in the suite, and
that's a good thing, too, because I can't remember what they are.
Of course, I'm not only the owner of the Society for the Preservation
of Liberal Noncificationality, I'm a member, too.
(That last line will not make a whole lot of sense unless you are
aware of a much-parodied commercial on American TV for a commercial
endeavor that styles itself as "The Hair Club for Men." Now that I
think of it, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense even if you are
aware of the commercial. Those are the breaks.)
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
RossHoward
wrote:
[Snip my anathemization of "apprecianado"]
>That might be the case if yours were the only process by which it
>could legitimately derive, but the Spanish language at this point has
>absolutely nothing to do with it. "Aficionado" is an American English
>word (it may be an OtherPondial English word, as well, but I simply
>don't know if it is or is not).
Yes, it is used in the UK too (although Hemingway is probably to blame
for its adoption in English with a meaning that comes from what the
Ernster, from the depths of his unique understanding of Spanish
culture, thought it meant rather than what it actually means).
>Therefore, it is subject to
>noncification by any of the several processes whereby that occurs in
>American English, in this case the surgical attachment of vital organs
>from multiple words. This was an entirely legitimate American English
>noncification, meeting the acidest test I provide in my test suite --
>I got it right away.
>It also met the second test in the suite -- I liked it. Therefore
>there was no need to apply the rest of the tests in the suite, and
>that's a good thing, too, because I can't remember what they are.
Fine, I can go along with that, provided we agree to at least spell
the suffix properly -- "ap(p)recionado", for example. But then, what
is it supposed to mean -- "someone who appreciates something"?
"Aficionado" is just a poncey word for "fan" or "devotee". What does
"Apr[insert preferred spelling here]" mean that isn't already covered
by a whole bunch of non-poncey words and structures?
Ross H.
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
<arm...@BOATmindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>RossHoward wrote: ... In other words, like all counterfeit coins, it's
>worthless.
>
>How much am I bid for a counterfeit gold coin stamped "21 BC"?
>
>
What is its fine weight, troy?
OBaue: Is that how one puts it?
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
wrote:
Those are the breaks.)
>
>Truly Donovan
Them indeed is.
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
<schu...@erols.com> wrote:
>Armond Perretta wrote:
>
>> ...
>> How much am I bid for a counterfeit gold coin stamped "21 BC"?
>
>And just how, may I ask, can you be so sure it's
>counterfeit, Mr. Smartypants?
>//P. Schultz
Damn' right. The later Emperors quite often attempted to conceal
the debasement of the coinage. See the standard work on the
topic _Trajan and the Aftermath_, volumes V through VII, by
Hammersmith & Bypass.
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
(RossHoward) wrote:
>Fine, I can go along with that, provided we agree to at least spell
>the suffix properly -- "ap(p)recionado", for example. But then, what
>is it supposed to mean -- "someone who appreciates something"?
>"Aficionado" is just a poncey word for "fan" or "devotee". What does
>"Apr[insert preferred spelling here]" mean that isn't already covered
>by a whole bunch of non-poncey words and structures?
>
>Ross H.
Right. That's the crux, er, whole point, of denying entry to
these funny words. I mean 'fan' is nice and simple and the fact
that it has one or two other meanings (and this one has not much
relation to most of the meanings of 'devotee') is no reason to
take this dago 'aficionado' into the language. We have enough of
them already.
As for 'aprecionado', it's a chap (I suppose feminists won't mind
that "o" implication) who has trouble dieting isn't it? We call
'em fatties in English.
RossHoward
wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:09:55 GMT, rossh...@my-dejanews.com
>(RossHoward) wrote:
>
>
>>Fine, I can go along with that, provided we agree to at least spell
>>the suffix properly -- "ap(p)recionado", for example. But then, what
>>is it supposed to mean -- "someone who appreciates something"?
>>"Aficionado" is just a poncey word for "fan" or "devotee". What does
>>"Apr[insert preferred spelling here]" mean that isn't already covered
>>by a whole bunch of non-poncey words and structures?
>
>Now that's an entirely different issue. Me and my friends often
>engage in such wordplay for the sheer joy of it. If it's not a game
>you enjoy, don't play it.
Oh, it's a game I enjoy. But aren't all games more fun if some basic
ground rules are hammered out first?
Ross H.
Truly Donovan
(RossHoward) wrote:
>Fine, I can go along with that, provided we agree to at least spell
>the suffix properly -- "ap(p)recionado", for example. But then, what
>is it supposed to mean -- "someone who appreciates something"?
>"Aficionado" is just a poncey word for "fan" or "devotee". What does
>"Apr[insert preferred spelling here]" mean that isn't already covered
>by a whole bunch of non-poncey words and structures?
Now that's an entirely different issue. Me and my friends often
engage in such wordplay for the sheer joy of it. If it's not a game
you enjoy, don't play it.
If you'll recall, the original poster said it arose spontaneously in
conversation, not that it was chosen after great deliberation for use
in a grant application for a federal grant to study people who like
things.
english teacher
English Teacher
RossHoward
<et...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>"Me and my friends?" My friends and I, perhaps.
>English Teacher
If TD had thought I'd be more interested in her friends' activities
than in hers, I'm sure she would have structured the phrase as you
suggest. As it was, she rightly assumed the opposite. The friends were
merely the supporting cast, and "I and my friends" is not an idiomatic
option.
Have any more quaint superstitions like that one that you care to
share with us?
Ross H.
Truly Donovan
<et...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>"Me and my friends?" My friends and I, perhaps.
>English Teacher
Is that a license to be boring?
Golgo13
> > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:09:55 GMT, rossh...@my-dejanews.com
> > (RossHoward) wrote:
> >
> > >Fine, I can go along with that, provided we agree to at least spell
> > >the suffix properly -- "ap(p)recionado", for example. But then, what
> > >is it supposed to mean -- "someone who appreciates something"?
More or less, yes. English speakers routinely make up words to suit
their taste and do this in both formal and informal settings. I
respectfully forward all the "-o-rama" and "-a-go-go" suffixes seen
throughout the 1950s as being roughly approximate to the coinage in
question. As to whether a novel construction will stand the test of time
is a different matter.
Cheers,
DLS
--
D. Sosnoski
gol...@mindspring.com
"A war designed to wipe out pockets of vernacular resistance ..." -WFB
Éamonn McManus
> I respectfully forward all the "-o-rama" and "-a-go-go" suffixes seen
> throughout the 1950s as being roughly approximate to the coinage in
> question. As to whether a novel construction will stand the test of time
> is a different matter.
The -orama suffix apparently made it into French (or independently
evolved) at roughly the same time. It's now as dated there as in
English but has left its mark in the names of a number of chains: there's
Castorama, which is a DIY chain (castor = beaver); there's Conforama,
a furniture chain (confort = comfort); near here I've seen a Lubrirama
that presumably sells lubricants (for vehicles I suppose, but what do I
know?); and there was even an undertakers' called Funerama before they
apparently noticed that the name was a bit tacky and changed it to the
duller Roc Eclerc.
,
Eamonn http://www.mtcc.com/~eamonn/
"Soon all will be lovely"