Do Americans really say "pacifier"?
Igor Merfert
My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
word "Nuckel".
The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
Thanks is advance.
Best wishes,
Igor M.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Frances Kemmish
Igor Merfert wrote:
>
> My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
> word "Nuckel".
>
> The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
> I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>
Americans really do say 'pacifier', when they mean the device they stick
in a baby's mouth to soothe it. In England, that was known as a 'dummy'.
A 'teat' was put on a bottle, so that the baby could suck out the
contents. Americans call that a 'nipple'.
In America, you can buy special brushes for cleaning both those items: I
remember being very confused when I was asked if I knew where to buy a
'nipple brush'. The image it conjured up was enough to bring tears to my
eyes.
Fran
AnWinEsp
>
>The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
>I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
Yes, amazingly we do. But we don't think of the term literally, "thing that
pacifies"; rather, it's come to stand for the "binky" (one nickname I've heard)
itself.
Don Livingston
In article <883161188...@dejanews.com>,
Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
>My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
>word "Nuckel".
>
>I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
Yes, we do use the word "pacifier". In face, I can't even think of
another word, colloquially or otherwise, that we would use in my family to
designate the same object.
Jitze Couperus
In article <19971226193...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
anwi...@aol.com (AnWinEsp) wrote:
> >
> >The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
> >I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
> >language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>
> Yes, amazingly we do. But we don't think of the term literally, "thing that
> pacifies"; rather, it's come to stand for the "binky" (one nickname I've
heard)
> itself.
Sometimes it is used to refere to a "binky" (or "dummy" on 'tother side
of the pond) but it can also refer to a product of Messrs Smith and Wesson
or other purveyors of light artillery.
Jitze
--
If replying, remove spam.filter from above address
Cheryl L Perkins
Don Livingston (de...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Yes, we do use the word "pacifier". In face, I can't even think of
: another word, colloquially or otherwise, that we would use in my family to
: designate the same object.
'Dumb-tit', but it's a long time since I heard it used.
Cheyrl
--
Cheryl Perkins
cper...@calvin.stemnet.nf.ca
LLThrasher
Don Livingston wrote:
>
> In article <883161188...@dejanews.com>,
> Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
> >My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
> >word "Nuckel".
> >
> >I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
> >language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>
> another word, colloquially or otherwise, that we would use in my family to
> designate the same object.
I assume we're talking about a baby's pacifier. I've never heard them
called anything else except jokingly and then it's usually a coined name
used within a family. I used to refer to them as "plugs", but meant it
in only the nicest way, I assure you. What is a pacifier called
elsewhere? Incidently, I know someone whose email address is
some...@pacifier.com. It never fails to amuse me.
Linda Thrasher
http://www.teleport.com/~baty/cbones.html
(now includes excerpts from advance reviews of Charlie's Bones)
Truly Donovan
On Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:41:04 -0600, Igor Merfert
<mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
>My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
>word "Nuckel".
>
>The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
>I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
Americans *really* say "pacifier." Most of us can handle four
syllables without that much difficulty, once having mastered
"American."
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
O&W
AnWinEsp <anwi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971226193...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Yes, amazingly we do. But we don't think of the term literally, "thing
that
> pacifies"; rather, it's come to stand for the "binky" (one nickname I've
heard)
> itself.
>
Babies were taught to call the gadget a passie or paffie, sometimes. We
parents usually called it sanity.
Mark Odegard
[Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Sat, 27 Dec 1997
00:07:52 GMT, tru...@ibm.net (Truly Donovan) in
<34a44690...@news3.ibm.net> wrote
|Americans *really* say "pacifier." Most of us can handle four
|syllables without that much difficulty, once having mastered
|"American."
Yes, we do. I offer, however, the word "podgy" (spelling by ear)
as a synonym via Sicily.
My 3˝ year-old-neice, Elizabeth Anne Y. was encouraged to give
up her pacifier this Christmas Day. She manfully tossed it into
the kitchen garbage can before opening presents. She fussed last
night, and probably fussed this night, but *she* made the
decision to toss it.
--
Mark Odegard.
My real address doesn't include a Christian name.
Emailed copies of responses are very much appreciated.
Robert Lipton
In my family we sometimes refer to it as a volume knob; tugging on a
pacifier in use can change the sound level.
Bob
Pierre Jelenc
Polar <s.m...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 06:25:08 GMT, marko...@ptel.net (Mark Odegard)
> wrote:
>
> Your (obviously female) niece "manfully" tossed her pacifier into the
> garbage?
>
> Your assignment, Mark, should you choose to accept it: Come up with a
> different adverb. <g>
How do you know she wasn't watching a football game and drinking a can of
beer at the time? And anyway, did she ask for directions?
Pierre
--
Bored and restless in this holiday season?
Have a beer! | Hear some music!
New York City Beer Guide | Home Office Records
http://www.nycbeer.org/toc.html | http://www.web-ho.com/gigs.html
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
I always called it a "pacifier" until I moved to Canada (Toronto), where my
acquaintances generally call it a "soother."
Cheers--
Susan C/C
fade...@worldnet.att.net
> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
I've only heard "pacifier" but if I have a chance to mention
one I'll call it a "gob stopper," something that sounded
just right when I read it somewhere.
John Ritson
In article <883295546....@dejanews.com>,
fade...@worldnet.att.net writes
>In article <883161188...@dejanews.com>,
> Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>
>I've only heard "pacifier" but if I have a chance to mention
>one I'll call it a "gob stopper," something that sounded
>just right when I read it somewhere.
In UK usage, a 'gobstopper' is a spherical sweet (often on a stick)
about one inch in diameter. It would certainly pacify a larger child...
John
Jonathan Mason
John Ritson <jo...@jritson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>>> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>>
>>I've only heard "pacifier" but if I have a chance to mention
>>one I'll call it a "gob stopper,".
>
>In UK usage, a 'gobstopper' is a spherical sweet (often on a stick)
>about one inch in diameter. It would certainly pacify a larger child...
>
Seems to me that Americans *do* say "pacifier". (The war against
Vietnamese unification was called "pacification"). In the UK the word is
usually "dummy" (stands for "dummy nipple", I suppose), but in the US
"dummy" usually means "fool" (possibly cognate with German "dumm" =
stupid).
In Rugby, soccer etc. there is a common expression "to sell someone a
dummy" meaning to deceive an opponent by feinting one move, then
completing another.
For further reference turn to "Everything You Wanted to Know About
Dummies for Dummies".
Robert M. Wilson
In article <883295546....@dejanews.com>,
>>
>> I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
>> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
>
>I've only heard "pacifier" but if I have a chance to mention
>just right when I read it somewhere.
>
A "gob stopper" used to rfer to any large candy that was too big to chew or
bite; it could only be sucked and prevented articulate speech. "gob" (shut
your gob) was slang for mouth, presumably from "gobble."
I see know reason why a "gob stopper" could not also refer to a "dummy" (UK)
or "pacifier" (US).
Ti-Blanc
As a Canadian in Central Canada, I am used to "soother" for "pacifier"
and for me a "gobstopper" is a candy.
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <nnwUEDA8...@jritson.demon.co.uk>, John Ritson
<jo...@jritson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <883295546....@dejanews.com>,
> fade...@worldnet.att.net writes
> >In article <883161188...@dejanews.com>,
> > Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder if Americans actually use "pacifier" in their colloquial
> >> language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
> >
> >I've only heard "pacifier" but if I have a chance to mention
> >one I'll call it a "gob stopper," something that sounded
> >just right when I read it somewhere.
>
> In UK usage, a 'gobstopper' is a spherical sweet (often on a stick)
> about one inch in diameter. It would certainly pacify a larger child...
In the US, a Gobstopper (capital G, as it's a trademark) is also a
spherical sweet, but it's not on a stick and is only about a centimeter in
diameter. They slowly change clors and flavors as their outer layers
dissolve in your mouth. They're named after Everlasting Gobstobbers, a
candy that never dissolved, invented by Willy Wonka in Roald Dahl's
_Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ (no doubt where Fadeaway read it).
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Manny Olds
Don Livingston <de...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
: In article <883161188...@dejanews.com>,
: Igor Merfert <mer...@et.uni-magdeburg.de> wrote:
:>My dictionary gives "teat" (BrE) and "pacifier" (AmE) for the German
:>word "Nuckel".
:>
:>The American term "pacifier" looks rather long and scientific to me.
:>language or do they have an abbreviation or some other term for this?
: Yes, we do use the word "pacifier". In face, I can't even think of
: another word, colloquially or otherwise, that we would use in my family to
: designate the same object.
I have heard "binky" (from the name of a particular brand) and "nuck"
(maybe from a brand name, maybe from german). But most often, I hear
"pacifier" as the ordinary name of the baby-sucking-thing.
--
Manny Olds <old...@clark.net> of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
The Coyote could stop anytime -- IF he were not a fanatic. "A fanatic
is one who redoubles his effort when he has forgotten his aim"
-- George Santayana.
David McMurray
LLThrasher wrote:
[snip]
> I assume we're talking about a baby's pacifier. I've never heard them
> called anything else except jokingly and then it's usually a coined name
> used within a family. I used to refer to them as "plugs", but meant it
> in only the nicest way, I assure you. What is a pacifier called
> elsewhere? [...]
In (parts of) Canada : "suce" (rhymes with "loose").
Originally a French-Canadian term for "nipple" (French "sucer" = "to
suck"), it has been imported to spoken Canadian English. Although Gage
does not list it, I can attest that it is common in Quebec and eastern
Ontario.
Another commonly heard term is "soother".
--
David (eliminate "hitch" to reply)
K. Edgcombe
In article <adinkin-ya0231800...@news.nii.net>,
Aaron J. Dinkin <adi...@commschool.org> wrote:
>In the US, a Gobstopper (capital G, as it's a trademark) is also a
>spherical sweet, but it's not on a stick and is only about a centimeter in
>diameter. They slowly change clors and flavors as their outer layers
>dissolve in your mouth. They're named after Everlasting Gobstobbers, a
>candy that never dissolved, invented by Willy Wonka in Roald Dahl's
>_Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ (no doubt where Fadeaway read it).
No, gobstoppers were around before CCF was written. I was there.
Katy
David McMurray
K. Edgcombe wrote:
> Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
> >In the US, a Gobstopper (capital G, as it's a trademark) is also a
> >spherical sweet, but it's not on a stick and is only about a centimeter in
> >diameter. They slowly change clors and flavors as their outer layers
> >dissolve in your mouth. They're named after Everlasting Gobstobbers, a
> >candy that never dissolved, invented by Willy Wonka in Roald Dahl's
> >_Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ (no doubt where Fadeaway read it).
> No, gobstoppers were around before CCF was written. I was there.
The candies Aaron describes were around long before CCF. In Montreal at
least, we called them blackballs. They had a tiny caraway seed at the
very centre and cost three-for-a-penny at McGouran's.
Roger Standing
David McMurray wrote:
>
The gobstoppers I remember in the UK were enormous and had to be eased
into the mouth, where they would dissolve slowly.
Roger
------------------------------------------------
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Curtis Cameron
LLThrasher wrote:
>
> I assume we're talking about a baby's pacifier. I've never heard them
> called anything else except jokingly and then it's usually a coined name
> used within a family. I used to refer to them as "plugs", but meant it
> in only the nicest way, I assure you.
I've heard the cutesy name "binky" from multiple families, but I hope
that none of my family ever uses it.
My son is 14 months old and calls it "pah" (with a short "a", /p&h/),
because he can't handle four syllable words yet. I think that's the
reason why there is often a coined name - the whole word is too
difficult for a baby to say.
The subject line of this thread implies that people in other countries
are incredulous that we use the term. I've seen some posts from
Canadians, but all seem to be very familiar with the term's being
common. So who asked this question?
-Curtis Cameron
Keith C. Ivey
Curtis Cameron <curt...@remove.cyberramp.net> wrote:
>The subject line of this thread implies that people in other countries
>are incredulous that we use the term. I've seen some posts from
>Canadians, but all seem to be very familiar with the term's being
>common. So who asked this question?
A German (or at least someone with a .de address).
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org>
http://cpcug.org/user/kcivey/
Washington, DC
Reinhold Aman
Keith C. Ivey wrote:
> Curtis Cameron <curt...@remove.cyberramp.net> wrote:
>
> >The subject line of this thread implies that people in other countries
> >are incredulous that we use the term. I've seen some posts from
> >Canadians, but all seem to be very familiar with the term's being
> >common. So who asked this question?
>
> A German (or at least someone with a .de address).
It was Igor Merfert from Magdeburg (in former East Germany). The German
term he used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually a regional term. The
standard German word is _Schnuller_. A colloquial term is _Lutscher_,
and as a Bavarian baby, I was pacified with a _Duzl_ /du:tsl/.
--
Reinhold Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402-6123, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Mark Odegard
[Posted, e-mailed] **Note Spam Trap below** On Wed, 31 Dec 1997
21:38:37 -0800, Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net> in
<34AB2B...@sonic.net> wrote
|as a Bavarian baby, I was pacified with a _Duzl_ /du:tsl/.
Reinhold seems to have studied Markus's pages. So, I ask again:
how the hell do you pronounce the last name of Lorand Baron von
Eo"vto"s. There is considerable Hungarian influence here.
Sean Holland
Ti-Blanc <ti-b...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
> As a Canadian in Central Canada, I am used to "soother" for "pacifier"
> and for me a "gobstopper" is a candy.
Same over here in British Columbia, Ti-Blanc. Soothers for those
horrible things some people put in their children's mouths.(We never put
them in any of our kids' mouths. They make the children look so
mindless.)
Gobstoppers for those horrible things children sometimes put in their
own mouths.
Sean
--
Please remove the word "garbage" from my e-mail address.
Reinhold Aman
Mark Odegard wrote:
>
> [Posted, e-mailed] On Wed, 31 Dec 1997
> 21:38:37 -0800, Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net> in
> <34AB2B...@sonic.net> wrote
>
>> as a Bavarian baby, I was pacified with a _Duzl_ /du:tsl/.
>
> Reinhold seems to have studied Markus's pages. So, I ask again:
> how the hell do you pronounce the last name of Lorand Baron von
> Eo"vto"s. There is considerable Hungarian influence here.
No, Mark, I haven't studied Markus's pages. What gave you the idea? I
don't even know any Markus in this group who would interest me.
Tomorrow I'll e-mail to you or repost here my earlier posting with the
pronunciation.
--
Reinhold Aman
John M. Lawler
Mark Odegard writes:
>So, I ask again: how the hell do you pronounce the last name of
>Lorand Baron von Eo"vto"s?
The last name is of course the troublesome part for non Hungarian
speakers. By the way, that's actually Eo"tvo"s, and Encyclopedia
Britannica also says it's "Roland", not "Lorand". Typing Hungarian
names too rapidly can be deadly, apparently.
There are three syllables, with stress on the first, and secondary stress
on the third. All vowels are phonemically short (thank God for small
favors), and all consonants are as in English, except for the final 's'.
Hungarian short /o"/ is a standard mid front open rounded vowel, as in
German or French or Swedish. Say English /E/ as in "set" while rounding
your lips.
There are two Hungarian phonemes both spelled as short 'e', though in the
Budapest dialect they're neutralized. One is like English /E/ in "set",
and the other is like English /ae/ in "sat". I haven't any idea which one
occurs in the Baron's name. You might ask a Hungarian speaker which is
correct; it's a famous name, after all.
Finally, the final 's' is pronounced like English 'sh'.
Put them all together, you get something like E-o"t-vo"sh
with stress on the initial 'E' (but don't make it long, as you would
in English for a stressed initial vowel -- it's temporally short).
Good luck.
-John Lawler http://www.lsa.umich.edu/ling/jlawler/ U Michigan Linguistics
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Language is the most massive and inclusive art we know, a - Edward Sapir
mountainous and anonymous work of unconscious generations." Language (1921)
Reinhold Aman
Mark Odegard wrote:
> How the hell do you pronounce the last name of Lorand Baron von
> Eo"vto"s. There is considerable Hungarian influence here.
I checked several European reference works. All list his first name as
"Roland." The name on his web site is misspelled as "Lóránd." The
closest pronunciation approximation with an ad hoc system is:
Roland = ROH lahnd (stress on the first syllable, long O and long A)
Baron = bah ROHN (stress on the second, long A and long O; German)
von = fonn (with a short "closed O"; German)
Eötvös = EH öt vösh (stress on E, ö as in "pert," v as in "vase," sh as
in "short")
--
Reinhold Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402-6123, USA
Fred Galvin
On 1 Jan 1998, John M. Lawler wrote:
> Mark Odegard writes:
>
> >So, I ask again: how the hell do you pronounce the last name of
> >Lorand Baron von Eo"vto"s?
>
> The last name is of course the troublesome part for non Hungarian
> speakers. By the way, that's actually Eo"tvo"s, and Encyclopedia
> Britannica also says it's "Roland", not "Lorand". Typing Hungarian
> names too rapidly can be deadly, apparently.
In fact, it is Lora'nd (accent on the a indicating length not stress) in
Hungarian. The famous university in Budapest is the Eo"tvo"s Lora'nd
Tudoma'nyos Egyetem (Roland Eo"tvo"s Scientific University), abbreviated
ELTE. No doubt he used Roland on papers written in German or French.
Hungarians often translate their given names when writing in foreign
languages, e.g., Erdo"s Pa'l = Paul Erdo"s.
> There are three syllables, with stress on the first, and secondary stress
> on the third.
Two syllables; eo" is an obsolete spelling of o" which survives only in
proper names.
> All vowels are phonemically short (thank God for small
> favors), and all consonants are as in English, except for the final 's'.
>
> Hungarian short /o"/ is a standard mid front open rounded vowel, as in
> German or French or Swedish. Say English /E/ as in "set" while rounding
> your lips.
>
> There are two Hungarian phonemes both spelled as short 'e', though in the
> Budapest dialect they're neutralized. One is like English /E/ in "set",
> and the other is like English /ae/ in "sat". I haven't any idea which one
> occurs in the Baron's name. You might ask a Hungarian speaker which is
> correct; it's a famous name, after all.
>
> Finally, the final 's' is pronounced like English 'sh'.
>
> Put them all together, you get something like E-o"t-vo"sh
> with stress on the initial 'E' (but don't make it long, as you would
> in English for a stressed initial vowel -- it's temporally short).
It's just O"t-vo"sh, with the stress on the first syllable, as it always
is in Hungarian.
Fred Galvin
On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Fred Galvin wrote:
> On 1 Jan 1998, John M. Lawler wrote:
>
> > Mark Odegard writes:
> >
> > >So, I ask again: how the hell do you pronounce the last name of
> > >Lorand Baron von Eo"vto"s?
> >
> > The last name is of course the troublesome part for non Hungarian
> > speakers. By the way, that's actually Eo"tvo"s, and Encyclopedia
> > Britannica also says it's "Roland", not "Lorand". Typing Hungarian
> > names too rapidly can be deadly, apparently.
>
> In fact, it is Lora'nd (accent on the a indicating length not stress) in
> Hungarian. The famous university in Budapest is the Eo"tvo"s Lora'nd
> Tudoma'nyos Egyetem (Roland Eo"tvo"s Scientific University), abbreviated
> ELTE. No doubt he used Roland on papers written in German or French.
> Hungarians often translate their given names when writing in foreign
> languages, e.g., Erdo"s Pa'l = Paul Erdo"s.
>
> > There are three syllables, with stress on the first, and secondary stress
> > on the third.
>
> Two syllables; eo" is an obsolete spelling of o" which survives only in
> proper names.
In fact, eo"tvo"s is an archaic spelling of the Hungarian word o"tvo"s
meaning goldsmith.
> > [...]
Fred Galvin
On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Reinhold Aman wrote:
> Mark Odegard wrote:
>
> > How the hell do you pronounce the last name of Lorand Baron von
> > Eo"vto"s. There is considerable Hungarian influence here.
>
> I checked several European reference works. All list his first name as
> "Roland." The name on his web site is misspelled as "Lóránd." The
He has a web site?? And he misspelled his own name?? Should be a short o.
> closest pronunciation approximation with an ad hoc system is:
>
> Roland = ROH lahnd (stress on the first syllable, long O and long A)
> Baron = bah ROHN (stress on the second, long A and long O; German)
> von = fonn (with a short "closed O"; German)
> Eötvös = EH öt vösh (stress on E, ö as in "pert," v as in "vase," sh as
> in "short")
The name is spelled Eo"tvo"s but it's pronounced O"tvo"s. Two syllables.
Sounds like ERT-versh. So you won't have to take my word for it (which
would not in fact be a bad idea), I'll cite an authority. _E'des
anyanyelvu"nk_, third edition (Lo"rincze Lajos, ed.), Akade'miai Kiado',
Budapest, 1972, is a book about the Hungarian language for Hungarians. On
pp. 89-90 there is an article by Bence'dy Jo'zsef about names that are not
pronounced the way they are spelled. Quoting from p. 89: "Eo"tvo"s
Jo'zsef-nek, az i'ro'nak e's politikusnak a neve't e's Eo"tvo"s
Lora'nd-e't, a kiva'lo' fizikuse't, o"-vel mondjuk, nem pedig eo"-vel."
Translation: "The name of Eo"tvo"s Jo'zsef, the writer and politician, and
of Eo"tvo"s Lora'nd, the eminent physicist, we say with an o", not with an
eo"." As I said earlier, o"tvo"s is the Hungarian word for goldsmith, and
eo"tvo"s is an old-fashioned spelling of the same.
Geoff Butler
Gerard Holden <gho...@spam.spoiler> writes:
>
>I suspect if I were to use the expression "spat the dummy" in North
>America I would receive some blank looks, however, "spat the pacifier"
>or "spat the soother" doesn't have quite the same impact.
>
>To spit the dummy means to lose one's temper, usually suddenly and out
>of proportion to the triggering incident (in the view of the observer).
I've never heard that in Brit, either, but it seems to be pretty close
to "chucking your toys out of the pram".
-ler
Fred Galvin
The name of that university is the Eo"tvo"s Lora'nd Tudoma'nyegyetem
(abbreviated ELTE), not Tudoma'nyos Egyetem as I said incorrectly in an
earlier post. Sorry about that.
Igor Merfert
Reinhold Aman wrote:
>It was Igor Merfert from Magdeburg (in former East Germany).
E: Correct.
D: Korrekt.
>The German term he used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually a regional
term.
E: Regional? If you consider Germany a region you might be right.
D: Regional? Wenn Sie Deutschland als Region betrachten, könnten Sie sogar
recht haben.
>The standard German word is _Schnuller_.
E: ??? "Schnuller" is as colloquial as "Nuckel". BTW, the official term is
"Sauger" or "Beruhigungssauger".
D: ??? "Schnuller" ist genauso umgangssprachlich wie "Nuckel". Nebenbei
bemerkt, die offizielle Bezeichnung ist "Sauger" oder "Beruhigungssauger".
>A colloquial term is _Lutscher_,
E: ??? A "Lutscher" is a lollipop in Germany. D: ??? In Deutschland ist
ein Lutscher ein Lutscher (Macht irgendwie keinen Sinn im Deutschen.).
>and as a Bavarian baby, I was pacified with a _Duzl_ /du:tsl/.
E: No idea about what Bavarians say.
D: Also Bayrisch kann ich nun wirklich nicht.
E: Best wishes,
D: Viele Grüße,
E:/D: Igor M.
PS. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!
Reinhold Aman
Note: This topic belongs in "alt.usage.german" or
"de.etc.sprache.deutsch," but because of Mr. Merfert's mistakes and
snotty P.S. (Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!), I'll comment here.
The P.S. means, "Stay with things you know" or "Keep away from topics
about which you don't know anything." Language happens to be my
business. I have used German for some 60 years, have studied it for 40,
and have taught German dialectology at the university graduate level. I
also have at least twenty times more German dictionaries than Mr. M.
has. So much for calling me a dabbler and ignoramus regarding German and
its dialects.
Igor Merfert wrote:
> >The German term he [I.M.] used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually a regional
>> term. [wrote R.A.]
>
> E: Regional? If you consider Germany a region you might be right.
You are wrong in your claim that _Nuckel_ is a transregional term. All
my dictionaries label _Nuckel_ as "mitteldeutsch," used in the central
*region* where you live, between the North and the South. This
*regional* term is *unknown* to many millions of Swabians, Franconians,
Bavarians and others living south of Frankfurt (Main), who use
_Schnuller_ instead.
> >The standard German word is _Schnuller_.
>
> E: ??? "Schnuller" is as colloquial as "Nuckel". BTW, the official term is
> "Sauger" or "Beruhigungssauger".
_Schnuller_ is understood throughout Germany but is used primarily in
the southern regions, approximately one-third of the country. _Nuckel_
is used primarily in Central Germany (Mitteldeutschland) but is not
understood widely -- let alone used -- elsewhere. _Sauger_ is *the*
standard generic term for "pacifier," but as in the case of many
"official" terms, few Germans actually use it, preferring instead to use
their regional terms. _Beruhigungssauger_ (literally,
"appeasement-sucker") may be a standard term, but no German in his right
mind would use this stilted, silly monstrosity.
> >A colloquial term is _Lutscher_,
>
> E: ??? A "Lutscher" is a lollipop in Germany.
I suppose you have heard that many words are polysemous (have multiple
meanings)? _Lutscher_ is one of them, and one of its meanings is
"pacifier." Check your (2?) dictionaries.
> PS. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!
Das ist ziemlich frech. Likewise! You stick with *your* specialty,
sound files, about which I know nothing; and I'll stick with the German
and English languages (history, grammar, etymology, usage, semantics,
onomastics, orthography, syntax, morphology, phonology, stylistics,
dialectology, and pedagogy).
Igor Merfert
Reinhold Aman wrote:
>
> Note: This topic belongs in "alt.usage.german" or
> "de.etc.sprache.deutsch," but because of Mr. Merfert's mistakes and
> snotty P.S. (Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!), I'll comment here.
I still haven't figured out what you designate as snotty in my remarks.
Is that the way you discuss?
> The P.S. means, "Stay with things you know" or "Keep away from topics
> about which you don't know anything." Language happens to be my
> business. I have used German for some 60 years, have studied it for 40,
> and have taught German dialectology at the university graduate level. I
> also have at least twenty times more German dictionaries than Mr. M.
> has. So much for calling me a dabbler and ignoramus regarding German and
> its dialects.
No idea about what a "dabbler" is but judging from the context I catch
your drift.
> Igor Merfert wrote:
>
> > >The German term he [I.M.] used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually
a regional
> >> term. [wrote R.A.]
> >
> > E: Regional? If you consider Germany a region you might be right.
>
> You are wrong in your claim that _Nuckel_ is a transregional
term. All
> my dictionaries label _Nuckel_ as "mitteldeutsch," used in the central
> *region* where you live, between the North and the South. This
> *regional* term is *unknown* to many millions of Swabians, Franconians,
> Bavarians and others living south of Frankfurt (Main), who use
> _Schnuller_ instead.
>
> > >The standard German word is _Schnuller_.
> >
> > E: ??? "Schnuller" is as colloquial as "Nuckel". BTW, the official
term is
> > "Sauger" or "Beruhigungssauger".
>
> _Schnuller_ is understood throughout Germany but is used
primarily in
> the southern regions, approximately one-third of the country. _Nuckel_
> is used primarily in Central Germany (Mitteldeutschland) but is not
> understood widely -- let alone used -- elsewhere.
You probably haven't noticed yet but now you confirm my claim, "Nuckel"
and "Schnuller" are both colloquial. BTW, the verb "nuckeln" means suck
in colloquial speech. Are you telling me that millions of Swabians,
Franconians, Bavarians and others living south of Frankfurt (Main)
wouldn't understand it?
>_Sauger_ is *the*
> standard generic term for "pacifier," but as in the case of many
> "official" terms, few Germans actually use it, preferring instead to use
> their regional terms. _Beruhigungssauger_ (literally,
> "appeasement-sucker") may be a standard term, but no German in his right
> mind would use this stilted, silly monstrosity.
Aber Herr Oberlehrer! Go into a drugstore and check at the
inscriptions of the pacifier packings. You'll find "Sauger",
"Beruhigungssauger", and "Sicherheitsberuhigungssauger".
So, I am asking you
WHO IN THE HELL WRITES SUCH A BULLSHIT on those packings?
(Just wondering...)
> > >A colloquial term is _Lutscher_,
> >
> > E: ??? A "Lutscher" is a lollipop in Germany.
>
> I suppose you have heard that many words are polysemous (have
multiple
> meanings)? _Lutscher_ is one of them, and one of its meanings is
> "pacifier." Check your (2?) dictionaries.
I bet 100: 1: Go into 100 shops, request a "Lutscher" and I'll shut up
at once if you came out of a shop holding in your hand just _one_
pacifier. This bet is valid!
For the sake of truth. Good guess! I have two Duden. One "Die
deutsche Rechtschreibung" which is a bit older, and one "Das
Fremdwörterbuch" which is new.
> > PS. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!
>
> Das ist ziemlich frech.
Is this the only German senctence you dare to write? You know how many
Germans read this NG. Is this the fact that deters you from writing
more?
>Likewise! You stick with *your* specialty,
> sound files, about which I know nothing; and I'll stick with the German
> and English languages (history, grammar, etymology, usage, semantics,
> onomastics, orthography, syntax, morphology, phonology, stylistics,
> dialectology, and pedagogy).
I am very, very sorry, as long as you write _wrong_ things about German
I _have_ to intervene. I owe that to the German language. The skill of
a language cannot be measured by the amount of books one can call his
own. Otherwise, I would buy the 24 (?) volume OED and would be the
star on a.u.e... That'd be big fun! ;-)
Viele Grüße,
Igor M.
Brian J Goggin
On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:53:38 -0600, Fred Galvin <gal...@math.ukans.edu>
wrote:
>The name of that university is the Eo"tvo"s Lora'nd Tudoma'nyegyetem
>(abbreviated ELTE), not Tudoma'nyos Egyetem as I said incorrectly in an
>earlier post. Sorry about that.
Has this got anything to do with the Teletubbies?
bjg
Igor Merfert
> PS. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten!
Das ist ziemlich frech. Likewise! You stick with *your* specialty,
sound files, about which I know nothing; and I'll stick with the German
and English languages (history, grammar, etymology, usage, semantics,
onomastics, orthography, syntax, morphology, phonology, stylistics,
dialectology, and pedagogy).
LOL! You've just given me an idea!
ATTENTION:
This follow-up is almost exclusively written in German. If you
think this is misplaced here, put me in your kill-file. This seems to take
a bit longer. Thanks,
Igor M.
I wrote the following story in order to show German learners what could happen if you took Dr. Amans advices seriously.
As usual, this contribution from the aueAA can be listened to. You'll find a sound file at:
http://comserv.urz.uni-magdeburg.de/~merfert/disc_pa/nuckel.wav
(529 K)
It is me reading the following dialouge:
In einer Apotheke, irgendwo in Deutschland, jedoch nicht in Bayern:
Dr. A.: "Grüß Gott, junge Frau, mein Name ist, na das
tut wohl nichts zur Sache. Jedoch bin ich promoviert, also ein Doktor und
äh... Sprachwissenschaftler."
(zu sich selbst: "Mit Linguist wissen die hier ohnehin nichts anzufangen.")
Verkäuferin.: "Ja, schönen guten Tag, Herr Doktor, was treibt sie denn zu uns?"
Dr. A.: "Ich möchte gern einen Dutzl erstehen."
Verkäuferin, guckt zuerst verwundert, dann verändert sich ihr Gesichtsausdruck jedoch in ein grinsendes Lächeln.: "Aber Herr Doktor, das wird doch nichts Unanständiges sein?"
Dr. A.: "Junge Frau, ein Dutzl ist ein Lutscher, gewissermaßen."
Verkäuferin: "Ach ein Lutscher!!! Da gehen sie mal lieber in die Lebensmittelabteilung."
Dr. A.: "Nein, meine Beste. Ein Lutscher kann auch ein Schnuller sein!"
Verkäuferin: "Sie wollen einen Nuckel???" (Echtes Erstaunen.) "Warum haben sie denn das nicht gleich gesagt! Hier ist ihr Nuckel und wenn sie das nächste mal soetwas haben möchten, können sie auch Sauger, oder Beruhigungssauger sagen, dann wissen wir gleich was gemeint ist, nicht wahr, Herr Doktor? Sagten sie nicht, sie wären Linguist? 3, 65, bitte schön."
Dr. A.: "Vielen Dank. Ja, drei Mark, 65 dann. Bitte!" (entfernt sich lächelnd, denkt jedoch: "Warum liest hier niemand den Duden in acht Bänden, man würde die Deutschen dann viel besser verstehen.")
Verkäuferin: "Tschüß, Herr Doktor. Und machen sie mal keinen Blödsinn mit ihrem Dutzl!" (winkt freundlich.)
Reinhold Aman
Igor Merfert wrote:
Note: Mr. Merfert is a German chap envious of my polyglot language
skills; he's also sulking about my friendly corrections of his German
and English. He and his friend, the Welsh windbag (Markus "Gwrywgyd"
Leaker), also have been harassing me with insulting e-mail messages.
This just to let AUEers know why I'm wasting my time correcting Mr. M.'s
German here in a.u.e.
Mr. M. tried his hand as playwright in the previous post. My
suggestions for him: (1) Don't quit your day job and (2) Do improve your
English *and* your native German. My corrections are shown below to the
right of the -->.
> I wrote the following story in order to show German learners what
> could happen if you took Dr. Amans advices seriously.
German learners --> students of German
if you took --> if they took
Dr. Amans --> Dr. Aman's
advices --> advice
> It is me reading the following dialouge:
dialouge --> dialog or dialogue
> Dr. A.: "Grüß Gott, junge Frau, mein Name ist, na das tut wohl nichts
> zur Sache. Jedoch bin ich promoviert, also ein Doktor und äh...
> Sprachwissenschaftler."
> (zu sich selbst: "Mit Linguist wissen die hier ohnehin nichts
> anzufangen.")
Yet another one envious of my doctorate (Ph.D.). Christ.
> Verkäuferin.: "Ja, schönen guten Tag, Herr Doktor, was treibt sie denn
> zu uns?"
treibt --> bringt
was treibt sie --> was treibt Sie
> Dr. A.: "Ich möchte gern einen Dutzl erstehen."
Dutzl --> Duzl (misspelled throughout)
erstehen --> kaufen
> Verkäuferin, guckt zuerst verwundert, dann verändert sich ihr
> Gesichtsausdruck jedoch in ein grinsendes Lächeln.
grinsendes Lächeln --> either "Grinsen" or "Lächeln," but not both
> Ach ein Lutscher!!! Da gehen sie mal lieber in die Lebensmittelabteilung."
Ach ein Lutscher!!! --> Ach, ein Lutscher!!!
gehen sie mal --> gehen Sie mal
> "Warum haben sie denn das nicht gleich gesagt!
Warum haben sie --> Warum haben Sie
> Hier ist ihr Nuckel und wenn sie das nächste mal soetwas haben möchten,
ihr Nuckel --> Ihr Nuckel
und wenn sie --> , und wenn Sie
das nächste mal --> das nächste Mal
soetwas --> so etwas
> können sie auch Sauger,
können sie --> können Sie
> dann wissen wir gleich was gemeint ist,
gleich was gemeint ist --> gleich, was gemeint ist
> nicht wahr, Herr Doktor? Sagten sie nicht, sie wären Linguist? 3, 65,
> bitte schön."
Sagten sie nicht --> Sagten Sie nicht
sie wären Linguist? --> Sie wären Linguist?
Faulty continuity: above, Dr. A. introduced himself as a
"Sprachwissenschaftler," not a "Linguist." The lady can't read his mind.
> Dr. A.: "Vielen Dank. Ja, drei Mark, 65 dann. Bitte!"
Ja, drei Mark, 65 dann. --> Ja, drei Mark 65, dann.
> "Warum liest hier niemand den Duden in acht Bänden,
> man würde die Deutschen dann viel besser verstehen."
The Duden series of German language reference works consists of at
least *eleven* volumes, not eight. Also, the above is a run-on
sentence.
> Verkäuferin: "Tschüß, Herr Doktor. Und machen sie mal keinen Blödsinn
> mit ihrem Dutzl!" (winkt freundlich.)
machen sie mal --> machen Sie mal
mit ihrem Dutzl --> mit Ihrem Duzl.
The ending (without a punch line) is as weak as the "humor" in his
sketch and his German spelling skills.
This is my final reponse to him. If his juvenile pride is hurt again,
so be it.
--
Reinhold Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402-6123, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Mirror site in Dublin, Ireland, at:
http://www.ucd.ie/~artspgs/mal/
Thorsten Meinecke
'igm>' := Igor Merfert <mer...@E-Technik.Uni-Magdeburg.DE>
igm> Reinhold Aman wrote:
> > Note: This topic belongs in [...] "de.etc.sprache.deutsch,"
Note cross-post. We'll straighten this out. Sorry for
my continuing in German below, and for heavy editing.
> > > > The German term he [I.M.] used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually
> > > > a regional term.
igm> > > Regional? Wenn Sie Deutschland als Region betrachten, könnten Sie
igm> > > sogar recht haben.
> > You are wrong in your claim that _Nuckel_ is a transregional
> > term. All my dictionaries label _Nuckel_ as "mitteldeutsch,"
> > > > The standard German word is _Schnuller_.
igm> > > ??? "Schnuller" ist genauso umgangssprachlich wie "Nuckel". Nebenbei
igm> > > bemerkt, die offizielle Bezeichnung ist "Sauger" oder "Beruhigungs-
igm> > > sauger".
> > _Schnuller_ is understood throughout Germany but is used primarily in
> > the southern regions,
igm> "Nuckel" and "Schnuller" are both colloquial.
[...]
igm> I have two Duden. One "Die deutsche Rechtschreibung" which is a bit older,
Möglicherweise liegt hier die Ursache für das Mißverständnis: ein
Ost-West-Gegensatz. Der Leipziger Duden enthält für "Nuckel" keine
Hinweise, "Schnuller" ist als umgangssprachlich gekennzeichnet. Im
Mannheimer Duden (16. Aufl., einen anderen habe ich grad nicht zur
Hand) ist "Nuckel" gar nicht drin, dafür steht "Schnuller" (= Gummi-
sauger) unqualifiziert.
Da der mitteldeutsche Sprachraum weitgehend mit dem ehemaligen Gel-
tungsbereich des Leipziger Dudens übereinstimmt, widersprechen sich
die beiden Standpunkte nicht: "Nuckel" war in der DDR ein hochsprach-
liches Wort, heute ist es 'nur' noch ein Regionalismus.
Aber was soll man anderes erwarten, wenn ein Rechtschreibbuch als
Referenz benutzt wird. Schaun wir doch mal in ein 'richtiges'
Wörterbuch, zum Beispiel den Wahrig: "Nuckel" ist mit zwei Bedeu-
tungen verzeichnet, oberdt. für Brustwarze und umgangssprachlich
für Schnuller. "Schnuller" wiederum ist als umgangssprachlich
gekennzeichnet, und als "Sauger" erklärt. "Lutscher" ist nur als
'Stielbonbon für Kinder' drin.
Hmm, das würde Igors Position stärken, aber ich glaube es nicht so
ganz, denn ich bin mir ziemlich sicher, daß in Nordwestdeutschland
ausschließlich "Schnuller" benutzt wird, von etwaigen nddt. Aus-
drücken abgesehen.
Wer kann die Dialektgeographie des Wortfeldes "Sauger" aufhellen?
Gruß,
--Thorsten
Ist doch schnulli!
Markus Laker
Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net>:
> Note: Mr. Merfert is a German chap envious of my polyglot language
> skills; ....
That's not my impression, although obviously only Igor can speak for
Igor.
> He and his friend, the Welsh windbag
What -- does Igor know Neil Kinnock?
> (Markus "Gwrywgyd"
> Leaker),
Oh, perhaps you mean me. Would it burst your bubble if I told you that
you still can't spell 'Laker' and there isn't an ounce of Welsh blood in
my body?
> also have been harassing me with insulting e-mail messages.
I've no idea what Igor has sent, but I've sent three private email
messages pointing out that your behaviour on a.u.e is damaging no one's
reputation but your own and urging you to be more civilised. You
haven't bothered to acknowledge any of them, which is why my language
has become increasingly emphatic.
Compare this with your public, persistent, pestilent, grossly obscene
and baseless abuse of Mimi Kahn and others on a.u.e. I don't think you
have much to complain about, Reinhold.
Markus Laker
--
I. Merfert
Reinhold Aman wrote:
>Igor Merfert wrote:
> Note: Mr. Merfert is a German chap envious of my polyglot language
>and English.
Thanks for your corrections. In your megalomania you actually
overlooked, that your German corrections were almost completely without
substance. However, as far as they are justified I am going to confirm
them.
As I will demonstrate in the following message your "polyglot language
skills" do not include the German language. But, no claims without
proofs...
>He and his friend, the Welsh windbag (Markus "Gwrywgyd"
>Leaker), also have been harassing me with insulting e-mail messages.
What does Markus have to do with all this?
> Mr. M. tried his hand as playwright in the previous post. My ...
Dr. Aman, I am still waiting for more than one German sentence from you.
Isn't it terrible that dictionaries only contain single words...?
> Yet another one envious of my doctorate (Ph.D.). Christ.
You can write _that_ down. (Mal unter uns: Habe bereits eingereicht.)
> Verkäuferin.: "Ja, schönen guten Tag, Herr Doktor, was treibt sie denn
> zu uns?"
treibt --> bringt
See this is your _poor_ German. "Bringt" would be wrong is this context!
You do not grasp the situation, right? LOL!
was treibt sie --> was treibt Sie
Dr. Aman is right, "Sie" is always capitalized.
> Dr. A.: "Ich möchte gern einen Dutzl erstehen."
Dutzl --> Duzl (misspelled throughout)
Correct, but I do not read 40 dictionaries before I post one message.
BTW, this is Bavarian, and I am not a Bavarian.
> erstehen --> kaufen
See, your _poor_ German does not allow you to recognize that this is
actually a "higher" expression for "kaufen". How _foolish_ of _me_ to
think that you would able to use it in a conversation, you don't
understand it its written form. LOL!
grinsendes Lächeln --> either "Grinsen" or "Lächeln," but not
both
Dr. Aman is right.
> Ach ein Lutscher!!! Da gehen sie mal lieber in die Lebensmittelabteilung."
You wanted to show me and all people on a.u.e and in a German NG that
"Lutscher" is an expression for "Nuckel", remember? I am _still_
waiting.
>"Sprachwissenschaftler," not a "Linguist." The lady can't read his mind.
Poor Dr. Aman. You do not know that Linguist is yet another term for
"Sprachwissenschaftler"? Is your German _that_ bad??? The "lady" who is
in fact a shop assistent (please look up "Verkäuferin" or if your
dictionary doesn't have it try "Verkäufer") showed you that German
natives speak better German then you can imagine with your poor German
language skills. How about visiting Germany some time, you'll be
surprised, promised.
You did not grasp the content of the entire story? Oh my! (I am deeply
dissappointed to find such a _weak_ enemy.) Come on, get up. Look up the
words you didn't get. Write to a German friend, if you have one. Try to
understand the story and the punch line. After all, it is not that
difficult.
> The Duden series of German language reference works consists of at
>least *eleven* volumes, not eight. Also, the above is a run-on
>sentence.
You should run off from a.u.e ;-)! As you probably do _not_ know, there
are different editions.
>> Verkäuferin: "Tschüß, Herr Doktor. Und machen sie mal keinen Blödsinn
>> mit ihrem Dutzl!" (winkt freundlich.)
> The ending (without a punch line) is as weak as the "humor" in his
>sketch and his German spelling skills.
I am _not_ surprised that _you_ didn't catch the punch line. Your German
is as poor as poor can be. I am not going to explain it to you, because
this is _your_ task, Herr "Deutschprofessor"! LOL!
> This is my final reponse to him. If his juvenile pride is hurt again,
>so be it.
Well, I guess if you retreat now _everybody_ will think you've
surrendered,
Mr. Last Word!
Get your 40 German dictionaries ready because in the end everybody will
know what a dabbler you are (Just looked it up. Why did you use it
before me? Did you expect anything? Getroffene Hunde bellen, nicht wahr,
Dr. Wauwau....?).
LOL! - ROF!
Gruß,
sorry bye,
Igor M.
Reinhold Aman
Reinhold Aman wrote:
Note: Mr. Merfert is a German chap envious of my polyglot language
skills; he's also sulking about my friendly corrections of his German
and English.
(snip)
Question to AUEers: Should I ignore this silly child who's making a
tremendous ass of himself, or should I rip him apart by documenting that
*each and every* statement he's made about me and my knowledge of German
is demonstrably wrong?
Either post your reply here or send me e-mail, please. I do not want to
clutter up AUE with this non-English topic, but if *your* honor,
achievements, and scholarship were publicly attacked and besmirched by
an ignorant Mimi-Kahn-type lowbrow, wouldn't you agree that such a fool
deserves to be publicly embarrassed?
Your vote:
(a) Ignore the fool.
(b) Waste him!
--
Reinhold Aman, Editor
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Igor Merfert
Could we just cut the crap? We are all adults here, we are all big
boys, aren't we? I am glad you are back in business. Welcome back,
Reinhold.
To clarify just a few things:
First, yes, I admire you for your English. It is excellent!
Second, your today's (!) German is poor, in fact it is a Pidgin. I
suppose it is a result of a mixture of English, Yiddish, Latin, and
German (maybe even more languages are involved). You have mainly
Grammar problems and problems with your word choice.
Why do I post it here? Because I had the impression (please tell me if
that impression was unjustified and I got carried away) you wanted
to tell me how to speak _my_ mother tongue, that's why. Face it
Reinhold, your German can be identified as German of a _non-native_
origin. I am not joking. I am serious. Therefore, I do not stay
quiet if you talk about German as if it was as good as your
English (see above).
Now, that is your homework. Looks familiar, doesn't it. Soon, I'll
compile more of _your_ German which can be found at DejaNews
(de.etc.sprache.deutsch). Please, don't try to remove it - it's too
late.
Simply comment and correct on your own German by using one of the 40,
maybe all 40 dictionaries. I am going to correct it after you did your
homework and advice you what phrases and Grammar usage reveal that you
write at a _non-native_ speaker level. Okay?
See you, here on a.u.e
Best wishes,
Igor
Don't cheat! ;-)
(aus: Re: Germanismen im Englischen/Amerikanischen, From: Reinhold Aman
<am...@sonic.net>, Date: 1997/11/15, NG: de.etc.sprache.deutsch,
paragraph unabrigded)
> Oy gevalt! Salcia Landmann ist das naive schweizer Gegenstück zum
>amerikanischen Leo Rosten. Glaub mir, diese zwei
>sprachwissenschaftlichen Amateure sind Stümper und haben viel Unsinn
>über die jiddische Sprache verbreitet. Das obige ist ein Beispiel von
>Landmanns Besessenheit, alles sonst nicht Erklärbare aufs Jiddische
>zurückzuleiten und an den Haaren herbeizuziehen.
>Ein Beispiel von
>Rosten: er behauptet, daß das jiddische Wort "kuni-lemel" von deutsch
>"Lümmel" stammt, obwohl es lautlich und semantisch 100%ig von mhd.
>"lemmel" (Lämbchen) kommt. Ein amerikanischer Linguist, David Gold, hat
>Rostens Buch ausführlich und total vernichtet.
>Rostens jüdischen Witze
>sind gut, aber seine Sprachwissenschaft ist erbärmlich.
Igor Merfert
Reinhold Aman wrote:
> [...]
>or should I rip him apart by documenting that
>*each and every* statement he's made about me and my
>knowledge of German is demonstrably wrong?
Oh, I have overlooked this. How could anyone answer this question
with "No". Yes, sure try this but use _German_ dictionaries, not
just Georgian or some other dictionaries which start with a "G", okay.
Igor M.
PS. And please explain the proverb "Getroffene Hunde bellen" to the
AUEers. You have forgotten that in your last follow-up or couldn't
you find it in your 40 dictionaries? Should I do it?
Roots
Reinhold Aman wrote in message <34B4AF...@sonic.net>...
>..., wouldn't you agree that such a fool
>deserves to be publicly embarrassed?
>
> Your vote:
>
> (a) Ignore the fool.
> (b) Waste him!
(c) Quit bickering and take the arguments to Email.
Reinhold Aman
Listen, anonymous Roots, when my honor, achievements and scholarship
are besmirched *in public* (here in AUE), I take the liberty of
responding here in AUE. When some Dummköpfe send me abusive e-mail, I
ignore it and do not respond here in AUE.
Do you understand the difference?
Dr. Peter Kittel
In article <34AED5...@sonic.net> Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net> writes:
>Igor Merfert wrote:
>
>> >The German term he [I.M.] used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually a regional
>>
>> E: Regional? If you consider Germany a region you might be right.
>
>*region* where you live, between the North and the South. This
>*regional* term is *unknown* to many millions of Swabians, Franconians,
>Bavarians and others living south of Frankfurt (Main), who use
>_Schnuller_ instead.
I'd debate that. Also to me, "Nuckel" is not as regionally limited as
you try to impose here.
--
Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // http://www.pios.de of PIOS
Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ office: peterk @ pios.de
Reinhold Aman
Dr. Peter Kittel wrote:
> In article <34AED5...@sonic.net> Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net> writes:
> >Igor Merfert wrote:
> >
> >> >The German term he [I.M.] used for "pacifier," _Nuckel_, is actually a regional
> >>> term. [wrote R.A.]
> >>
> >
> > You are wrong in your claim that _Nuckel_ is a transregional term. All
> >my dictionaries label _Nuckel_ as "mitteldeutsch," used in the central
> >*region* where you live, between the North and the South. This
> >*regional* term is *unknown* to many millions of Swabians, Franconians,
> >Bavarians and others living south of Frankfurt (Main), who use
> >_Schnuller_ instead.
>
> I'd debate that. Also to me, "Nuckel" is not as regionally limited as
> you try to impose here.
First, "to debate" is the wrong word here (just as "bakery" does not
mean _Gebäck_, as you screwed up yesterday). A better-suited verb is
"to dispute."
Second, "Also to me" is poor English.
Third, "to impose" also sucks; furthermore, I did not "impose" it here
in AUE.
Fourth, I have earlier stated in this NG that discussions about German
terms for "pacifier" do not belong in AUE but in the corresponding
German group.
Fifth, if you had read the responses in that group, you would have seen
that every native German agreed with me that "Schnuller" is known
throughout Germany, and that "Nuckel" *is* indeed a *regional* term used
predominantly in (east) central Germany.
While respected regulars in AUE are very tolerant about mistakes made
by non-native speakers of English, I advise you, Herr DR. Kittel, to
keep topics related to the German language and involving me out of AUE,
and that you'd better triple-check your English before posting here. (I
will reply to your latest annoying e-mail by e-mail, and then ignore
you.)
If you, Herr Doktor, and young Igor Merfert want to fuck with me, don't
do it here in AUE.
Mike Cleven
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:12:32 +0100, Igor Merfert
<mer...@E-Technik.Uni-Magdeburg.DE> wrote:
>Reinhold Aman wrote:
>>=20
So much for calling me a dabbler and ignoramus regarding German and
>> its dialects.
>
>No idea about what a "dabbler" is but judging from the context I catch
>your drift.
A "dabbler" comes from "to dabble", and that comes from "to dab", as
in to dab a brush into paint, especially on a palette. To dabble is
to take a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and mush them all
up. To _be_ a dabbler is something like being a dilettante, or
someone who only tries a little bit of a lot of different things.....
Mike Cleven
Iron Mountain Creative Systems
http://www.direct.ca/ironmtn
An enemy is as good as a Buddha - Buddhist proverb
The realization that one is a lost soul has two corollaries. One, that one is lost. Two, that one has a soul.
Markus Laker
Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net>:
> If you, Herr Doktor, and young Igor Merfert want to fuck with me, don't
> do it here in AUE.
Splendid, Reinhold. You have finally grasped the fact that a.u.e is not
a flame group. Can we have your assurance that there will be no
unprovoked attacks from you on a.u.e in future? No more 'four pound
labia menorah', no double paper bags, no illegal packages, no more
immature name-calling, and no more adolescent stories about eagles and
cloacal outpourings?
I look forward to the newly-rehabilitated Reinhold Aman with enthusiasm.
Igor Merfert
If this means peace:
Reinhold is not a dabbler regarding the German language.
Best wishes,
Igor M.
Reinhold Aman
> > don't do it here in AUE.
>
> Splendid, Reinhold. You have finally grasped the fact that a.u.e is not
> a flame group.
It would be even better if *you'd* finally grasp the fact that AUE is
not a group in which to publish false accusations (e.g., your
accusations that I used a faked e-mail address and your "hunch" that I
posted Mimi "Perineum" Kahn's DejaNews Author Profile).
As long as you're acting as AUE's Mother Superior, 'twould also be good
of you to inform the two dozen lowbrows who have flamed me that this is
not a flame group.
> Can we have your assurance that there will be no
> unprovoked attacks from you on a.u.e in future?
All my "unprovoked" attacks were *responses* to unprovoked attacks on
me or to provocative stupidities & bullshit.
> No more 'four pound labia menorah', no double paper bags,
If some dorky broad provocatively ridicules *my* sex life, I respond by
ridiculing *hers*.
> (...) no more adolescent stories about eagles and cloacal outpourings?
You're obviously too uneducated to understand the essence and satire of
my "New Eagle" tale. Read some Swift and Rabelais to get a feeling for
this genre. "Cloacal outpourings" is a refined, biologically correct
term for "birdshit" seemingly beyond your comprehension.
> I look forward to the newly-rehabilitated Reinhold Aman with enthusiasm.
Don't hold your breath. Others (with a murderous clout) have tried to
rehabilitate me and failed. You still don't understand that I don't
*crave* the respect of anyone, especially not of someone like you who by
e-mail accused me of being a criminal.
Now rework your Sunday sermon and send copies to paranoid but chipper
"Polar" and mousebrain "Mimi," advising the latter to spare AUEers the
details of what she and her husband eat for breakfast, how much bread
their dogs eat, where she buys her bread, and from whom that schnorrer
gets her wine. You might drop a hint that AUE is not a _Kaffeeklatsch_
for post-menopausal drips.
Oh, misled by your earlier claim -- real or facetious -- about your
Welsh-sounding true name, I addressed you as "the Welsh windbag." My
apologies to the Welsh. You're *not* a Welsh windbag. Just a windbag.
Have a good day.
Markus Laker
Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net>:
> As long as you're acting as AUE's Mother Superior, 'twould also be good
> of you to inform the two dozen lowbrows who have flamed me that this is
> not a flame group.
The way it usually works is that, if you don't attack other people, they
won't attack you. And if they do attack you and you don't respond, they
generally lose interest. Try it.
[...]
> > (...) no more adolescent stories about eagles and cloacal outpourings?
>
> You're obviously too uneducated to understand the essence and satire of
> my "New Eagle" tale.
It has nothing to do with education. I understood it. It was the
rantings of a nobody with an enormous ego who wanted to swan into a
discussion group and declare himself superior to all present. When
nobody else wanted to play that particular game you left in a huff (but
couldn't resist coming straight back). You can get as pretentious as
you want -- and maybe even fool yourself -- but that's all that was
going on.
> > I look forward to the newly-rehabilitated Reinhold Aman with enthusiasm.
>
> Don't hold your breath. Others (with a murderous clout) have tried to
> rehabilitate me and failed. You still don't understand that I don't
> *crave* the respect of anyone, especially not of someone like you who by
> e-mail accused me of being a criminal.
Perhaps that was where I said:
# Or perhaps, having been caught and punished for your crimes, you
# want to get back at society, and screaming abuse at arm's length is
# how you choose to do it. Pathetic, Reinhold! Get over it. Unless
# you want to spend your old age despised and alone, just play the
# game and rejoin society along with everyone else.
Are you objecting to the word 'crime'? Here's the relevant part of
COD9's definition:
1 a. a serious offence punishable by law.
b. illegal acts as a whole (*resorted to crime*).
2 an evil act (*a crime against humanity*).
3 *colloquial* a shameful act (*a crime to tease them*).
Any of those three definitions fits the bill. According to all of them,
you have committed crimes. If I'd wanted to call you a criminal I'd
have done so.
> Oh, misled by your earlier claim -- real or facetious -- about your
> Welsh-sounding true name,
What, Mark? Doesn't sound Welsh to me.
Reinhold Aman
Polar wrote:
> > I look forward to the newly-rehabilitated Reinhold Aman with enthusiasm.
> Don't hold your breath. He goes off probation Feb. 4.
I thought I was in your killfile? Why this uncommon, paranoid or tacky
interest in my legal status? As a chipper and avid writer of
complaints, "Polar," you and Mimi the Rat have exactly 21 days to mail
your complaints and snitch letters about me to the _federales_. After
that, the U.S. Nazi Persecutor's choke-chain is off, and I'll be as free
as a Jew in Auschwitz anno Domini 1945.
--
Reinhold Aman
Reinhold Aman
Markus Laker wrote:
> Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net>:
> > As long as you're acting as AUE's Mother Superior, 'twould also be good
> > of you to inform the two dozen lowbrows who have flamed me that this is
> > not a flame group.
>
> The way it usually works is that, if you don't attack other people, they
> won't attack you. And if they do attack you and you don't respond, they
> generally lose interest. Try it.
You remind me of others in this group who just don't get it and for
whom I have to spell out the details again and again, which becomes
tedious for all. So, for the last time: (1) I did not join this group
and attack people at random. Only *after* unprovoked attacks did I shoot
back at *them* and at them only, including you. (2) As asked above why
you haven't lectured those two dozen who have attacked me without
provocation, and why you limit your sermons just to me. (Not that I
really care.)
> > > (...) no more adolescent stories about eagles and cloacal outpourings?
> >
> > You're obviously too uneducated to understand the essence and satire of
> > my "New Eagle" tale.
>
> It has nothing to do with education. I understood it. It was the
> rantings of a nobody with an enormous ego who wanted to swan into a
> discussion group and declare himself superior to all present.
I'll get to the "nobody" further down. You did *not* understand this
exquisite tale -- one of the best pieces I've dashed off in a while --
nor did you notice the bait I laid out for twits like you by describing
myself (The New Eagle) in self-praising terms just to annoy the
lowbrows. (Shit, this is as painful as having to explain a joke.)
Contrary to your claim, I did *not* declare myself superior to all
present: "In AUE-Land were also several Elite Eagles, with plumage,
brains and graceful flight patterns ***matching or surpassing*** those
of the New Eagle." You understand now, stupid, that you're talking shit
just like Mousebrain Mimi? There are at least a dozen other Eagles in
this group whose knowledge and skills in many fields surpass mine. True,
I have built and filled a large reservoir of knowledge in my six decades
of studying, yet not only in this group but elsewhere are millions of
people who are far smarter and more knowledgeable than I am. I admire
and respect them, unlike little nobodies like you and Mousebrain who
turn green with envy when some is obviously smarter.
I don't know how old you are and what professional training you have,
but as long as you attack me as a "nobody," you're forcing me to
demonstrate that compared with me, you *definitely* are a nobody, a
_kleyner gornisht_ as the Jews say.
It's distasteful for me having to brag about my achievements, but here
are a few to show that your characterization of me as a "nobody" is
plain stupid shit-talk:
- How many times have the research departments of the Library of
Congress and the British Library asked *you* for information on
language?
- How many appearances on, and standing invitations from, American,
Canadian, German, Dutch and Swiss commercial and educational television
stations have *you* had?
- How many times has BBC interviewed *you* about language?
- Has Oxford University ever asked *you* to contribute articles to
their encyclopedia of linguistics?
- Are any of *your* words chronicled in the "Oxford English
Dictionary"? ("Maledicta" and my quotes are cited about 57 times.)
- Do *you* have standing invitations to lecture at Oxford and Cambridge
universities and at universities from Sweden to Slovenia, from Australia
to Japan?
- Have The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Boston
Globe, Los Angeles Times, Time, Newsweek, International Herald Tribune,
the London Times, Guardian, Times Literary Supplement, and The Scotsman,
the Dutch NRC Handelsblad, the German Welt, Zeit, Spiegel, Süddeutsche
Zeitung, and Frankfurter Allgemeine, the Swiss Neue Zürcher Zeitung and
hundreds more ever interviewed *you* or written long articles about
*your* achievements?
- How many international scholars and researchers have dedicated their
books to *you*, are featuring chapters on *you*, or have thanked *you*
profusely in their prefaces for *your* assistance and inspiration?
- Have *you* ever single-handedly created, edited, and typeset a
journal admired in at least 78 countries and available at hundreds of
major university libraries around the world?
- Are *you* in any edition of the original "Who's Who"?
There's more in http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/reviewers.html and
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/uncle_news.html, but this should suffice
to show who's the real nobody and who isn't.
> When
> nobody else wanted to play that particular game you left in a huff (but
> couldn't resist coming straight back). You can get as pretentious as
> you want -- and maybe even fool yourself -- but that's all that was
> going on.
Like hell I left in a huff. I just used the announcement that I was
leaving to rid AUE of Mimi Kahn's utterly vulgar and disgusting friends.
(Snipped "crimes" crap as it's impossible to discuss here. A 23-page
report about my alleged crime, free of U.S. Government lies and full of
sarcasm, is available at http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/j-accuse.html)
> > Oh, misled by your earlier claim -- real or facetious -- about your
> > Welsh-sounding true name,
>
> What, Mark? Doesn't sound Welsh to me.
I'm not the only one who was misled by your message from 21 Dec 1997
and believed that you were Welsh: "I could then communicate with my
loving parents as Myfanwy Jenkins but appear on a.u.e as Markus Laker.
I might do this if, for instance, I wanted to keep my interest in the
English language a secret from my colleagues in the Welsh nationalist
commune." Chipper "Polar" gushed about your beautiful real name and
wondered why you don't use "Myfanwy Jenkins."
I'm not interested in any further exchange with you.
--
Reinhold Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402-6123, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
Markus Laker
Reinhold Aman <am...@sonic.net>:
> I'm not interested in any further exchange with you.
Then presumably you won't try to pick a fight in the future. Neither
will I. Deal?