Pi Day - 14 March

[occam]

I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.

Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)

<https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-transcendental.html>

[Peter Moylan]

So someone has finally discovered a reason for putting the month first.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[occam]

On 15/03/2023 11:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 15/03/23 21:36, occam wrote:
>
>> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
>>
>> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
>>
>> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-transcendental.html>
>
> So someone has finally discovered a reason for putting the month first.
>

Don't Americans always do that? 03/14/2023? Or am I being whooshed?

[J. J. Lodder]

That's American pi day.
The European one is April 31, aka May first,

Jan

PS Some heretics (burn them all at the stake)
insist that tau-day should be celebrated instead,
on june 28.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

And today is the Ides of March. Beware.


--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[Silvano]

Athel Cornish-Bowden hat am 15.03.2023 um 13:46 geschrieben:

> On 2023-03-15 10:36:28 +0000, occam said:
>
>> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
>>
>> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
>>
>> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-transcendental.html>
>>
>
> And today is the Ides of March. Beware.

Only if your surname is Caesar.
Perhaps also if you're a "dictator perpetuo".

[occam]

On 15/03/2023 12:43, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>
>> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
>>
>> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
>>
>> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-tra
> nscendental.html>
>
> That's American pi day.
> The European one is April 31, aka May first,

I do not find any evidence of May 1st as the Day for Pi. However:

"Others opt to celebrate Pi Approximation Day on July 22, representing
the fraction 22/7, which is a way of working out an approximate value
for Pi."

[J. J. Lodder]

Athel Cornish-Bowden <athe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2023-03-15 10:36:28 +0000, occam said:
>
> > I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
> >
> > Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
> >
> > <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-t
ranscendental.html>
> >
>
> And today is the Ides of March. Beware.

Little need to.
Far less dictators are assasinated than there should have been,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 15/03/2023 12:43, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
> >
> >> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
> >>
> >> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
> >>
> >> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-
tra
> > nscendental.html>
> >
> > That's American pi day.
> > The European one is April 31, aka May first,
>
> I do not find any evidence of May 1st as the Day for Pi. However:

It was a joke, sometime, in pi-discussions.

> "Others opt to celebrate Pi Approximation Day on July 22, representing
> the fraction 22/7, which is a way of working out an approximate value
> for Pi."

I think November 10 (the 314th day of the year)
is more common for that one.
All equally silly of course,

Jan

[Hibou]

Le 15/03/2023 à 10:36, occam a écrit :
>
> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day. [...]

Found out - from a circular?

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

I wish 'd posted that, but I never got a round tuit.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Ken Blake]

A circular divided by a radial?

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Beware of Free Radicals! oh radials, sorry, I'm tyred. Hope you aren't
cross with me for plying you with this comment.

[Sam Plusnet]

There is at least one would-be Tzar.

(Currently involved in what the Governor of Florida called:
"A territorial dispute")

--
Sam Plusnet

[lar3ryca]

This tread has certainly taken a turn or two.

--
All generalizations are bad.

[J. J. Lodder]

I'm not intent on hitting you with anything at all,
but it may be practical to know that the American radian
may be expressed in either feet at a thousand yards,
or in inches at 100 yards.

Europeans, and NATO-Americans do it in moa,
which is of course a small fraction of a big pi,

Jan

[Sam Plusnet]

You can't fool us. The moa is an extinct type of large flightless bird.

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

Making a radical of that is definitely irrational,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, that too, already discussed otherthread.
It was their one-egg policy that did them in,

Jan

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

It's sad that there aren't any around any moa.

IIRC some long-lived trees in Madagascar are up for extinction as well, as
their seed shells had evolved to survive passage through a giant bird's
gut, but consequently the uncorroded shell is too thick for the seed germ
to erm. germinate. Roc-hard they are.

[J. J. Lodder]

That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
so no Rocs needed,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:14:04 AM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

...

> > It's sad that there aren't any around any moa.
> >
> > IIRC some long-lived trees in Madagascar are up for extinction as well, as
> > their seed shells had evolved to survive passage through a giant bird's
> > gut, but consequently the uncorroded shell is too thick for the seed germ
> > to erm. germinate. Roc-hard they are.

> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
> so no Rocs needed,

If it was Madagascar, it was the aepyornithidae or elephant birds, one
species of which was the heaviest bird known to have lived. The Dodo lived
on Mauritius, a thousand kilometers to the east.

--
Jerry Friedman

[J. J. Lodder]

Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, and that's where it is.
The tree is Sideroxylon grandiflorum, aka the Dodo tree.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideroxylon_grandiflorum>

The dodo connection has been disputed, and it may be false,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

Ah, all is now clear.

> The dodo connection has been disputed, and it may be false,

Can't these people get their stories straight?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Indeed, I don't think dodos could have swallowed the seed I was thinking
of. I still can't recall enough to give a definite reference, it was just
a passing (sic) pun about Roc-hard seeds.

https://www.kew.org/read-and-watch/madagascar-orphan-extinction

seems to be more general about 'orphan plants' that no longer have an
animal large enough to eat it's fruit.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Having now readahead, it seems it *was* the Dodo seed tale I was
recalling. Mea Culpa.

[lar3ryca]

They were probably French, and figured that one egg is un oeuf.

--
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone somewhere may be happy.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-03-17 12:47:56 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:

> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:14:04 AM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:...
>
>>> It's sad that there aren't any around any moa.> >> > IIRC some
>>> long-lived trees in Madagascar are up for extinction as well, as> >
>>> their seed shells had evolved to survive passage through a giant
>>> bird's> > gut, but consequently the uncorroded shell is too thick for
>>> the seed germ> > to erm. germinate. Roc-hard they are.
>
>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,>

So can a mechanical grinder.

>> so no Rocs needed,
> If it was Madagascar, it was the aepyornithidae or elephant birds, one
> species of which was the heaviest bird known to have lived. The Dodo lived
> on Mauritius, a thousand kilometers to the east.


--

[Bebercito]

Le mercredi 15 mars 2023 à 12:43:26 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>
> > I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
> >
> > Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
> >
> > <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-tra
> nscendental.html>
> That's American pi day.
> The European one is April 31, aka May first,

Or even April first, as "April 31" sounds like an April fool.

[Bebercito]

I've heard there may still be one alive, but it's a lone moa.

[J. J. Lodder]

Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, it is science you know, of a kind.
And like nuts, some sciences are harder than others,

Jan

[Sam Plusnet]

Isn't the avocado in the same situation?
i.e. Land animals big enough to swallow the stone & let it pass through
the digestive tract, were made extinct some time ago.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-avocado-should-have-gone-the-way-of-the-dodo-4976527/

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 05:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Jerry Friedman <jerry.fr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:14:04?AM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > > Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > > It's sad that there aren't any around any moa.
> > > >
> > > > IIRC some long-lived trees in Madagascar are up for extinction as
> > > > well, as their seed shells had evolved to survive passage through a
> > > > giant bird's gut, but consequently the uncorroded shell is too thick
> > > > for the seed germ to erm. germinate. Roc-hard they are.
> >
> > > That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
> > > so no Rocs needed,
> >
> > If it was Madagascar, it was the aepyornithidae or elephant birds, one
> > species of which was the heaviest bird known to have lived. The Dodo lived
> > on Mauritius, a thousand kilometers to the east.
> >
> Indeed, I don't think dodos could have swallowed the seed I was thinking
> of. I still can't recall enough to give a definite reference, it was just
> a passing (sic) pun about Roc-hard seeds.
>
> https://www.kew.org/read-and-watch/madagascar-orphan-extinction
>
> seems to be more general about 'orphan plants' that no longer have an
> animal large enough to eat it's fruit.

You made me wonder for a moment which one ate all those coconuts,
but then I remembered that Roc,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Then how did the avocado survive those 12 000 years
between mammoths and farmers?

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 3:00:53 PM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

...

> > Isn't the avocado in the same situation?
> > i.e. Land animals big enough to swallow the stone & let it pass through
> > the digestive tract, were made extinct some time ago.
> >
> > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-avocado-should-have-gone-t
> he-way-of-the-dodo-4976527/
> Then how did the avocado survive those 12 000 years
> between mammoths and farmers?

"It's a puzzle." However, the article says the seeds can't be dispersed,
not that they can't germinate.

The Wikipedia article on the Resplendent Quetzal says it eats wild
avocado fruit, thus helping to disperse the seeds. It shows a photograph
of a female with a wild avocado fruit (according to the caption) in her
beak.

Makes you wonder.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,

Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Jerry Friedman]

Actually, the reference in Wikipedia only mentions another tree of the
same genus as the cultivated avocado, so maybe it makes you wonder
less.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Dingbat]

On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:44:25 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 15/03/23 21:36, occam wrote:
>
> > I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
> >

> > Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
> >
> > <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-transcendental.html>

> So someone has finally discovered a reason for putting the month first.
>
22/7 is a possible date only if the day comes first and the month comes second.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
>
> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?

You forgot the two dots: türkiyes

[Peter Moylan]

On 18/03/23 19:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
>>
>> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?
>
> You forgot the two dots: türkiyes

Australian news media, after initially using the two dots, now appear to
have dropped them, probably because most Australians can't pronounce ü.
Meanwhile, two pronunciations seem to have become dominant. Most
newsreaders are saying T'kia, but a minority have stuck with something
that sounds a little like Tokyo. I am now considering a campaign to
change the official English spelling to T'kia, which at least is
something English speakers can pronounce.

Meanwhile, Erdoğan has made no effort at all to change the spelling of
Avustralya.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 3:54:26 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/03/23 19:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> >> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>
> >>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
> >>
> >> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?
> >
> > You forgot the two dots: türkiyes
> Australian news media, after initially using the two dots, now appear to
> have dropped them, probably because most Australians can't pronounce ü.
> Meanwhile, two pronunciations seem to have become dominant. Most
> newsreaders are saying T'kia, but a minority have stuck with something
> that sounds a little like Tokyo. I am now considering a campaign to
> change the official English spelling to T'kia, which at least is
> something English speakers can pronounce.

And, perhaps irrelevantly, the Hebrew word for a single "blast" on a
shofar, as the rabbi calls for it in Rosh Ha-Shanah services.

> Meanwhile, Erdoğan has made no effort at all to change the spelling of
> Avustralya.

But of course if Australia asked for a change, he'd comply at once.

--
Jerry Friedman

[occam]

Iron-hard, some may say. It's a twisted sense of evolutionary humour
that dictates that a seed has to go through the digestive system in
order to survive.

[occam]

On 17/03/2023 17:24, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-17 12:47:56 +0000, Jerry Friedman said:
>
>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 5:14:04 AM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Kerr-Mudd, John <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:...
>>
>>>> It's sad that there aren't any around any moa.> >> > IIRC some
>>>> long-lived trees in Madagascar are up for extinction as well, as> >
>>>> their seed shells had evolved to survive passage through a giant
>>>> bird's> > gut, but consequently the uncorroded shell is too thick
>>>> for the seed germ> > to erm. germinate. Roc-hard they are.
>>
>>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,>
>
> So can a mechanical grinder.
>

Tell that to darwinian evolution!

[occam]

On 18/03/2023 09:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
>>
>> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?
>
> You forgot the two dots: türkiyes
>

Well, while you're at it, why not "türkiyler" - the true plural.

By the way, the Turkish for a turkey is literally 'Indian bird' (hindi
kuşu). <I spit sideways, as I recount that.>

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-03-18 14:51:55 +0000, occam said:

> On 18/03/2023 09:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>>
>>> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
>>>
>>> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?
>>
>> You forgot the two dots: türkiyes
>>
>
> Well, while you're at it, why not "türkiyler" - the true plural.

Well yes, I thought of that, but I feared that people who know even
less Turkish than I do would be puzzled.

>
> By the way, the Turkish for a turkey is literally 'Indian bird' (hindi
> kuşu). <I spit sideways, as I recount that.>

Yusuf Gürsey, formerly a regular here and at sci.lang, made a
collection of names for turkeys:

https://ygursey1.blogspot.com/2013/11/happy-meleagris-gullapavo-day-or-how.html

[occam]

One moa silly pun and I'm tempted to kill that one too.

[lar3ryca]

Is the spitting a comment on the bird itself, or a comment on the word.

A running gag on a Canadian TV series called /Corner Gas/ has the
residents of /Dog River/ spitting sideways whenever they hear someone
mention the name of a nearby town named /Woolerton/.

--
Inoculatte (v): To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.

[Peter T. Daniels]

So is the French.

[occam]

It is a running gag amongst Armenians, every time anyone mentions
anything Turkish.

[lar3ryca]

Testing a preconception of mine.

Does your surname end with 'ian'?

--
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?

[Bebercito]

An autological phrase.

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 18/03/23 19:32, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2023-03-18 01:41:44 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> >> On 17/03/23 22:13, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>
> >>> That was Dodos. It seems Turkeys can sustitute,
> >>
> >> Aren't we supposed to call them turkiyes now?
> >
> > You forgot the two dots: türkiyes
>
> Australian news media, after initially using the two dots, now appear to
> have dropped them, probably because most Australians can't pronounce ü.
> Meanwhile, two pronunciations seem to have become dominant. Most
> newsreaders are saying T'kia, but a minority have stuck with something
> that sounds a little like Tokyo. I am now considering a campaign to
> change the official English spelling to T'kia, which at least is
> something English speakers can pronounce.
>

> Meanwhile, Erdo?an has made no effort at all to change the spelling of
> Avustralya.

Or to learn that Nederland isn't Holland,
and that they don't speak Hollandaca there,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 01:43, occam wrote:

> Iron-hard, some may say. It's a twisted sense of evolutionary humour
> that dictates that a seed has to go through the digestive system in
> order to survive.

Or, in some cases, to make good coffee.

The religious viewpoint is that the intelligent designer sometimes does
something stupid - see, for example, the giraffe's recurrent laryngeal
nerve - in order to make a joke. But it's a twisted sense of humour. By
our modern standards, denying a voice to the giraffe is cruel and
therefore not funny.

[occam]

Yes. Preconception no more.

[Janet]

In article <k7m10i...@mid.individual.net>,
oc...@nowhere.nix says...

The gut is an early example of a handbag, or pocket,
designed for creatures with no thumbs.

Perfectly designed to collect, store, transport and
distribute seeds.

Janet

[lar3ryca]

And how common is that in Armenia?

--
“Always remember that you are absolutely unique.
Just like everyone else.”
—Margaret Mead

[Sam Plusnet]

I was about to argue that collection, storage, transport & distribution
of seeds benefits the plant, not the animal.

But, as the animal regards that plant as a food source, it benefits,
indirectly, because the plant flourishes over a wider area.

A form of symbiosis I suppose.

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

The animal gets paid for services rendered,

Jan

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 2:25:43 PM UTC-6, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > On 19-Mar-23 11:23, Janet wrote:
> > > In article <k7m10i...@mid.individual.net>,
> > > oc...@nowhere.nix says...

...

> > >> ... It's a twisted sense of evolutionary humour

> > >> that dictates that a seed has to go through the digestive system in
> > >> order to survive.
> > >
> > > The gut is an early example of a handbag, or pocket,
> > > designed for creatures with no thumbs.
> > >
> > > Perfectly designed to collect, store, transport and
> > > distribute seeds.
> >
> > I was about to argue that collection, storage, transport & distribution
> > of seeds benefits the plant, not the animal.
> >
> > But, as the animal regards that plant as a food source, it benefits,
> > indirectly, because the plant flourishes over a wider area.
> >
> > A form of symbiosis I suppose.

> The animal gets paid for services rendered,

And the plant gets paid for products offered.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-6, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 19-Mar-23 11:23, Janet wrote:
> > In article <k7m10i...@mid.individual.net>,
> > oc...@nowhere.nix says...

...

> >> ... It's a twisted sense of evolutionary humour

> >> that dictates that a seed has to go through the digestive system in
> >> order to survive.
> >
> > The gut is an early example of a handbag, or pocket,
> > designed for creatures with no thumbs.
> >
> > Perfectly designed to collect, store, transport and
> > distribute seeds.
> I was about to argue that collection, storage, transport & distribution
> of seeds benefits the plant, not the animal.
>
> But, as the animal regards that plant as a food source, it benefits,
> indirectly, because the plant flourishes over a wider area.
>
> A form of symbiosis I suppose.

On topic: Wikipedia says "the definition widely accepted by biologist"
of "symbiosis" is now any kind of long-term relationship between
organisms of different species. If the relationship is beneficial to both,
it's "mutualism".

--
Jerry Friedman

[occam]

Very. Almost as common as in Glendale, California.

[Mark Brader]

Jerry Friedman:

> On topic: Wikipedia says "the definition widely accepted by biologist"
> of "symbiosis" is now any kind of long-term relationship between
> organisms of different species. If the relationship is beneficial to both,
> it's "mutualism".

This came up on "Jeopardy!" just a few days ago. I was very annoyed:
Watching the show at home, I read as far as

| IF ONE ORGANISM BENEFITS AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER, IT'S PARASITISM;
| IF BOTH BENEFIT, IT'S...

and was just starting to call out "What is symbiosis?" when I saw the
rest of the question:

| ...THIS TYPE OF SYMBIOSIS

Sheesh. These widely-accepted biologists meed to stop changing
widely-used meanings.

(The player who rang in did know the expected answer, though.)
--
Mark Brader | "I believe we can build a better world!
Toronto | Of course, it'll take a whole lot of rock, water and dirt.
m...@vex.net | Also, not sure where to put it." --Mark MacKenzie

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[occam]

Is the argument not flawed though, in this case? The animal eating the
indigestible seeds does not care about 'long-term relationship' (Wiki)
or the 'indirection' (Plusnet). It cares about food - which the seeds
are not. They are an unnecessary load on the guts.

That the animals keep swallowing these seeds means they are not smart
enough to realise the zero nutritional value of the seeds. If anything,
evolution is taking advantage of the stupidity of the animal to further
the propagation of plant species. "Exploitalism" at best.

[Jerry Friedman]

Maybe. We need indigestible material (fiber) in our guts, and I suppose
some fruit-eating animals might need the seeds. But the point is
irrelevant.

> That the animals keep swallowing these seeds means they are not smart
> enough to realise the zero nutritional value of the seeds. If anything,
> evolution is taking advantage of the stupidity of the animal to further
> the propagation of plant species. "Exploitalism" at best.

Mutualism isn't about caring; it's about benefit. The animal benefits
by eating the fruit pulp. I have no idea what animals are capable of
eating a fruit and spitting out the seeds, and whether they'd be better
off doing that than swallowing the seeds, but the relationship is to
the benefit of both the animal and the plant.

--
Jerry Friedman

[J. J. Lodder]

occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 19/03/2023 22:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:

Perhaps, but precise separation of the paying package
may be far more trouble than it is worth.

> That the animals keep swallowing these seeds means they are not smart
> enough to realise the zero nutritional value of the seeds. If anything,
> evolution is taking advantage of the stupidity of the animal to further
> the propagation of plant species. "Exploitalism" at best.

The cost to the animal of the pass-through is very low.
There may even some profit in it.
Many animals deliberately swallow stones to help with digestion,

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:35:42 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> > That the animals keep swallowing these seeds means they are not smart
> > enough to realise the zero nutritional value of the seeds. If anything,
> > evolution is taking advantage of the stupidity of the animal to further
> > the propagation of plant species. "Exploitalism" at best.
>
> The cost to the animal of the pass-through is very low.
> There may even some profit in it.
> Many animals deliberately swallow stones to help with digestion,

But, they told us, swallowed small hard seeds like grape seeds
could lodge in the vermiform appendix and lead to inflammation,
infection, peritonitis, ...

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 11:02:03 +0100, occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:

>On 19/03/2023 22:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, it's much likely that most animals are unable
to separate the seeds from the rest of the fruit and just swallow all
of it.

And in some fruits, the seeds are so small that it would be very
difficult to separate them from the rest of the fruit..

And one more point: some seeds are very nutritious.

[Snidely]

Remember Friday, when Bebercito asked plaintively:
> Le mercredi 15 mars 2023 à 12:43:26 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder a écrit :

>> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>>
>>> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
>>>

>>> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday 13th.)
>>>
>>> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-tra
>> nscendental.html>
>> That's American pi day.
>> The European one is April 31, aka May first,
>
> Or even April first, as "April 31" sounds like an April fool.

1.4 is not a good approximation of pi.

>> Jan
>>
>> PS Some heretics (burn them all at the stake)
>> insist that tau-day should be celebrated instead,
>> on june 28.

They just want a second slice.

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
<http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html>

[Snidely]

Mark Brader scribbled something on Sunday the 3/19/2023:

> Jerry Friedman:
>> On topic: Wikipedia says "the definition widely accepted by biologist"
>> of "symbiosis" is now any kind of long-term relationship between
>> organisms of different species. If the relationship is beneficial to both,
>> it's "mutualism".
>
> This came up on "Jeopardy!" just a few days ago. I was very annoyed:
> Watching the show at home, I read as far as
>
>> IF ONE ORGANISM BENEFITS AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER, IT'S PARASITISM;
>> IF BOTH BENEFIT, IT'S...
>
> and was just starting to call out "What is symbiosis?" when I saw the
> rest of the question:

The clou, surly?

>
>> ...THIS TYPE OF SYMBIOSIS
>
> Sheesh. These widely-accepted biologists meed to stop changing
> widely-used meanings.
>
> (The player who rang in did know the expected answer, though.)

The other players looked puzzled?

-d

--
"First thing in the morning, before I have coffee, I read the obits, If
I'm not in it, I'll have breakfast." -- Carl Reiner, to CBS News in
2015.

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-25 04:16, Snidely wrote:
> Remember  Friday, when  Bebercito asked plaintively:
>> Le mercredi 15 mars 2023 à 12:43:26 UTC+1, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
>>> occam <oc...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>>>> I just found out that yesterday (14th of March) was Pi day.
>>>> Does it get more special if Pi Day falls on a Fri Day? (cf Friday
>>>> 13th.)
>>>> <https://www.i-programmer.info/news/85-humour-/16153-pi-day-irrational-and-tra
>>> nscendental.html>
>>> That's American pi day. The European one is April 31, aka May first,
>>
>> Or even April first, as "April 31" sounds like an April fool.
>
> 1.4 is not a good approximation of pi.

Did you miss "as April 31"? the 31st of April, or 31 4.

--
Why are there 5 syllables in the word "monosyllabic"?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Whoosh.