Tracy and Tracey
Tracy Yu
I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
If anyone knows the difference, please tell me. Thanks in advance.
regards,
Tracy
Spehro Pefhany
> Dear all,
> I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
> confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
Google: Tracy 1,540,000
Tracey 473,000
Traci 258,000
Tracie 80,700
Tracee 12,900
As Yu can see, "Tracy" is very popular.
> Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
I think they are pronouced exactly the same.
> If anyone knows the difference, please tell me. Thanks in advance.
There is no particular difference- there may be some subtle information
communicated by the spelling of the name, (probable approximate age, for
example), but it would not likely make much difference to you. If you have
a serious profession, it would be unwise to spell your name "Traci" and
dot the "i" with a little heart jot. "Tracy" is just fine, and is a good
traditional spelling of the name.
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
/.-.\
(( * ))
\\ // Please help if you can:
\\\ http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
//\\\
/// \\\
\/ \/
Richard Fontana
There is no difference in pronunciation; if someone has distinct
pronunciations of "Tracy" and "Tracey" they're doing something deadly
wrong. The pronunciation of both, in a hypothetical standard English
accent, is /'treI si/ (or /treI sI/ if you prefer). Standard-speaking
Americans (and a lot of nonstandard ones too) will think of it as like
"tray-see" (or "trey-see" if you know Trey).
So the only issue is spelling. As a given name, "Tracy" is
much more common than "Tracey". But there are some Traceys; an example is
comedienne/actress Tracey Ullman.
R H Draney
<sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
>The renowned Tracy Yu <tra...@etang.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
>> confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
>
>Google: Tracy 1,540,000
> Tracey 473,000
> Traci 258,000
> Tracie 80,700
> Tracee 12,900
>
>As Yu can see, "Tracy" is very popular.
Overlooked here is that "Tracy" (but none of the other spellings) is
also a common surname, as in the comic-strip detective Dick Tracy and
the classic actor Spencer Tracy...it can also, albeit infrequently, be
used as a *male* given name, so if you wish to avoid *all* possible
ambiguity, the "-i" spelling would take care of that....
I would avoid the final two entries in Spehro's countdown...I'm
surprised they score as high as they do....
>> Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
>
>I think they are pronouced exactly the same.
I agree....
>> If anyone knows the difference, please tell me. Thanks in advance.
>
>There is no particular difference- there may be some subtle information
>communicated by the spelling of the name, (probable approximate age, for
>example), but it would not likely make much difference to you. If you have
>a serious profession, it would be unwise to spell your name "Traci" and
>dot the "i" with a little heart jot. "Tracy" is just fine, and is a good
>traditional spelling of the name.
I agree about the heart, but otherwise there's so little difference
between them it's almost a free choice....
(Random musing: the hosts of "Car Talk" often entertain themselves by
trying to guess the spelling of a caller's name...I think this started
with "Kathy" vs "Cathy", but it has now spread to all sorts of
names...the main criterion they use seems to be geographic)....r
--
"I may not know much about art, but I know what
they tell me I'm supposed to like."
Tracy Yu
Thanks for all the feedback from you.
You know I referred to the pronunciation because some people call me
/'treisi/, but others call me /t'reisi/. Most of the latters came from
Germany and Turkey.
Have good day!
Tracy
"Tracy Yu" <tra...@etang.com> wrote in message
news:9rlepr$j75$1...@news.mch.sbs.de...
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Dear all,
>I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
>confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
>Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
They would be for me.
>If anyone knows the difference, please tell me. Thanks in advance.
I'd say there is no difference. It's your name, when among English
speakers, and you are free to spell it as you please. Tracey is
probably the more usual spelling and is the way my ex-sister-in-law
spelled it.
Charles Riggs
Ben Zimmer
Tracy Yu wrote:
>
> You know I referred to the pronunciation because some people call me
> /'treisi/, but others call me /t'reisi/. Most of the latters came from
> Germany and Turkey.
Not sure I understand your transcription. Do you mean that German and
Turkish speakers pronounce your name as three syllables, with an
unaccented "schwa" inserted between the /t/ and /r/? For Turkish
speakers this makes sense because the phonotactic rules of their
language don't allow for many consonant clusters. Looking at a Turkish
word-list I see that words beginning with "tr-" are apparently all
loanwords, mostly from Greek. So I could understand Turkish speakers
inserting a schwa to simplify the consonant cluster, but I don't think
German speakers would do that. Perhaps because German [R] is often
realized as a uvular trill (like French) it sounds strange to you.
--Ben
Mike Lyle
1. Charles is right: pronunciation identical, spelling most often "Tracey" as a
first name, "Tracy" as a surname, I suspect.
2. When did it become a first name in its own right? I assume it started as a
diminutive of "Teresa".
3. Chinese people often adopt English names in this way. Tracey, do you do it
just because you want to, or is it because we always get Chinese names wrong?
Mike.
Richard Fontana
> 1. Charles is right: pronunciation identical, spelling most often "Tracey" as a
> first name, "Tracy" as a surname, I suspect.
In a listing of surnames based on the 1990 US Census, "Tracy" was ranked
1082 and "Tracey" was ranked 4790.
But "Tracy" is also more common as a first name in the US. In the ranking
of female names, "Tracy" is ranked 108, while "Tracey" is ranked 280. In
the ranking of male names, "Tracy" is at 291, "Tracey" at 835.
Incidentally, "Riggs" is way more common than "Draney". "Riggs" is ranked
886 on the surname list, while "Draney" is at 57546.
Mike Lyle
<Pine.GSO.4.21.01103...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu>, Richard Fontana
wrote:
>
>On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> 1. Charles is right: pronunciation identical, spelling most often "Tracey" as a
>> first name, "Tracy" as a surname, I suspect.
>
>In a listing of surnames based on the 1990 US Census, "Tracy" was ranked
>1082 and "Tracey" was ranked 4790.
>
>But "Tracy" is also more common as a first name in the US. In the ranking
>of female names, "Tracy" is ranked 108, while "Tracey" is ranked 280. In
>the ranking of male names, "Tracy" is at 291, "Tracey" at 835.
>
domestic Tracey, two business Tracy + another business Tracy who's a
hairdresser, so it's prob a forename.
Mike.
Steve Hayes
>On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:03:13 GMT, "Spehro Pefhany"
><sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
>
>>The renowned Tracy Yu <tra...@etang.com> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
>>> confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
>>
>>Google: Tracy 1,540,000
>> Tracey 473,000
>> Traci 258,000
>> Tracie 80,700
>> Tracee 12,900
>>
>>As Yu can see, "Tracy" is very popular.
>
>Overlooked here is that "Tracy" (but none of the other spellings) is
>also a common surname, as in the comic-strip detective Dick Tracy and
>the classic actor Spencer Tracy...it can also, albeit infrequently, be
>used as a *male* given name, so if you wish to avoid *all* possible
>ambiguity, the "-i" spelling would take care of that....
The given name became popular as a girl's name after some actor (Jean Harlow?)
named her daughter after Spencer Tracy. So Tracy was the "original". Of course
Spencer Tracy's first name was also a surname.
Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about 1968-1975, so
one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
R H Draney
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Incidentally, "Riggs" is way more common than "Draney". "Riggs" is ranked
>886 on the surname list, while "Draney" is at 57546.
If you've got a moment, would you mind checking for the ways that
people insist upon spelling it?...I get either an I inserted after the
A, the E dropped, or both, on such a frequent basis I wonder why
people are coming up with them...(the E is especially hard to
understand; parallel construction with the name "Disney", with which I
doubt many are unfamiliar)...I also see "Dranery" and "Darney" quite a
bit...are any of these even *close* to being as common as the correct
spelling....
My personal favorite was a letter addressed to a "Mr R Hdraney"....r
--
"We have lost everything in our download file,
as well as everything stored in our favorite places."
- Tamex
Joe Manfre
> If you've got a moment, would you mind checking for the ways that
> people insist upon spelling it?...I get either an I inserted after the
> A, the E dropped, or both, on such a frequent basis I wonder why
> people are coming up with them...(the E is especially hard to
> understand; parallel construction with the name "Disney", with which I
> doubt many are unfamiliar)...I also see "Dranery" and "Darney" quite a
> bit...are any of these even *close* to being as common as the correct
> spelling....
I get a lot of spellings of my name too. Everybody seems to want
to double the E or tack on a Y at the end. Occasionally I get
"Manfire", which is what certain people on a certain other
newsgroup like to call me.
Don't let's get into what the Microsoft spellchecker says about
my last name.
> My personal favorite was a letter addressed to a "Mr R Hdraney"
My favorite was when I ordered a bunch of newspapers from the
Miami Herald and they came addressed to "Jesus Manfry".
JM
--
Joe Manfre, Hyattsville, Maryland.
N.Mitchum
----
> I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
> confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
> Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
How does the pronunciation differ? As far as I know, they are
identical.
"Tracy" is the usual spelling. The others are affectations to
some extent.
----NM
Richard Fontana
> I get a lot of spellings of my name too. Everybody seems to want
> to double the E or tack on a Y at the end. Occasionally I get
> "Manfire", which is what certain people on a certain other
> newsgroup like to call me.
Can you give us some idea of the pronunciation? I've been assuming it's
"MAN-fray", or maybe "MON-fray".
Joe Manfre
The All-American pronunciation is MAN-free, as free as the wind blows.
At least you correctly recognized that there's a vowel at the end.
Some people like to put a syllabic R there, as if it's some kind of
British name or something rather than Italian.
JM
--
Joe Manfre, Hyattsville, Maryland.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is
the dismemberment plan." -- MegaHAL
Jacqui
> The given name became popular as a girl's name after some actor (Jean
Harlow?)
> named her daughter after Spencer Tracy. So Tracy was the "original".
Of course
> Spencer Tracy's first name was also a surname.
>
> Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about
1968-1975, so
> one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
I went to school with a lot, and anecdotal evidence suggests that Tracey
is much more popular than Tracy for UK girls of 28-32.
I suspect this to be related to the Stacy/Stacey thing, where every
female one I've encountered spelled it with the e.
Lesley/Leslie *ought* to be much more clear-cut but there are enough
exceptions to the "rule" to make it awkward to argue.
Jac
Jacqui
> 2. When did it become a first name in its own right? I assume it
started as a
> diminutive of "Teresa".
Nope. Tracy is a name of Norman origin, from one of the places in the
north of France called Tracy, suchas Tracy-le-mont near Compiegne... the
French placename comes from Thracius, "man of Thrace". The name was
popularized by the character Tracy Lord played by Grace Kelly in High
Society.
(From Brewer's Dictionary of Names - People & Places & Things)
Jac
Robert Lieblich
Not disputing the point, but there are some "T[h]eresa"s who use the
nickname "Tracey." One known to me (not personally, but by
documentation) is Teresa ("Tracey") Sterne, who produced many of the
early classical records on the Nonesuch label, back when it was the
Naxos (CD brand, not island) of the LP era.
Donna Richoux
"High Society" was 1956. Kathryn Hepburn played exactly the same
character, Tracy Lord, in 1940 ("Philadelphia Story"). One is credited
with "popularizing" the name and the other not?
I'm pretty leery of all those "was popularized by" claims. They're easy
to say and nearly impossible to prove.
A site on the Top 40 names in the US for each decade, 1930s to 1990s,
shows "Tracy" only made the Top 40 once -- in the 1970s.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
N.Mitchum
----
> popularized by the character Tracy Lord played by Grace Kelly in High
> Society.
*Philadelphia Story*, do you mean? With Katherine Hepburn as
Tracy and Archie Leach as C.K. Dexter Haven? (*High Society* was
a remake, done some 15 years later.)
----NM
Steve Hayes
wrote:
Check the "Guinness book of names" -- I'll see if I can see one at the local
library.
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about 1968-1975,
> so one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
I hesitate to tread on this ground after what was thrown at me for doing
so last time, but Tracy, though indeed a popular girl's name at this time,
was much more popular at the lower end of the class spectrum than at the
upper end. It's another of those names that's likely to get one assumed
to "from a council estate".
Matthew Huntbach
perchprism
"Matthew M. Huntbach" <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:9rojg8$q0c$6...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
Matthew M. Huntbach
> > > Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about
> > > 1968-1975, so one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
> > I hesitate to tread on this ground after what was thrown at me for doing
> > so last time, but Tracy, though indeed a popular girl's name at this time,
> > was much more popular at the lower end of the class spectrum than at the
> > upper end. It's another of those names that's likely to get one assumed
> > to "from a council estate".
> So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
"Tracy" is one of a number of names which became popular in the UK
for a time but whose popularity was largely amongst people towards the
lower end of the class scale. Other such girls' names might include
"Sharon" or "Kelly", and boys' names might include "Wayne" or "Kevin".
The prototypical "Essex girl" is quite likely to be named "Tracy".
"Condaleeza" does not fall into this category because it was not a name
that achieved popularity amongst anyone in the UK. Someone in the UK would
have no preconceived images of its bearer due to being familiar with its
usage. Before we became familiar with it due to a politician in the USA
bearing it, I guess someone hearing or seeing the name and knowing
nothing else about the person would just assume it was a name of
foreign origin and thus outside social class assumptions.
Matthew Huntbach
Simon R. Hughes
A council estate in Essex. And she has a best friend called Sharon.
Trace and Shaz are the local bicycles.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://www.geocities.com/a57998/subconscious/
perchprism
Straight answer. You pass with flying colors. I asked because a name like
"Condaleeza" carries a cachet of the urban jungle, so to speak, to my ear.
Those made-up, MTV/Blackpride, bongo-music, ersatz-African orthographical
monstrosities antagonize some of us Anglo-to-the-bone types because they
ring of Afro-American separatism. I have no idea where the name Condaleeza
really comes from; I'm just pleased when a stereotype is shattered. I
suppose you'd figure her for Nigerian or something and let it go at that,
London being so cosmopolitan.
Mike Lyle
All this is unfair, and severely troubling to my liberal conscience! But I bet
you know what I mean when I say "Those Kevin-and-Tracy things on car windscreens
seem to have gone out of fashion".
Mike.
Steve Hayes
If I remember correctly according to the Guinness Book of Names, figures from
the Registrar of Births for England and Wales in 1972 put Tracy/Tracey top.
But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
came fairly high.
Matthew M. Huntbach
> "Matthew M. Huntbach" <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
> > perchprism (gbl...@home.com) wrote:
> > > "Matthew M. Huntbach" <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
> > > > I hesitate to tread on this ground after what was thrown at me for
> > > > doing so last time, but Tracy, though indeed a popular girl's name
> > > > at this time, was much more popular at the lower end of the class
> > > > spectrum than at the upper end. It's another of those names that's
> > > > likely to get one assumed to "from a council estate".
> > > So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
> > "Condaleeza" does not fall into this category because it was not a name
> > that achieved popularity amongst anyone in the UK. Someone in the UK would
> > have no preconceived images of its bearer due to being familiar with its
> > usage. Before we became familiar with it due to a politician in the USA
> > bearing it, I guess someone hearing or seeing the name and knowing
> > nothing else about the person would just assume it was a name of
> > foreign origin and thus outside social class assumptions.
> Straight answer. You pass with flying colors. I asked because a name like
> "Condaleeza" carries a cachet of the urban jungle, so to speak, to my ear.
> Those made-up, MTV/Blackpride, bongo-music, ersatz-African orthographical
> monstrosities antagonize some of us Anglo-to-the-bone types because they
> ring of Afro-American separatism. I have no idea where the name Condaleeza
> really comes from; I'm just pleased when a stereotype is shattered. I
> suppose you'd figure her for Nigerian or something and let it go at that,
> London being so cosmopolitan.
If "Condaleeza" were more obviously a made-up name, it certainly would
carry the "urban jungle" cachet in the UK as well. Made-up names, or
contrived non-standard spellings of standard names are also generally
used in the UK mainly amongst Afro-Carribeans, maybe also right at the
bottom end of the class scale amongst whites. In fact if one knew the
person in question were black, I think one would be more likely to
dismiss the made-up name as due to the Afro-Carribean population's
different naming habits than if the person were white, in which case
it definitely screams out "problem family from dead-end street".
"Condaleeza" certainly doesn't look like anything Nigerian, and the
"ee" is a bit of a made-up name giveaway - it would look more like
a genuine overseas name if spelt "Condalisa". However, I felt it
looked enough like a genuine overseas name, from some nationality
we don't encounter enough to be familiar enough with their naming
conventions, that it would be passed by on that assumption.
Matthew Huntbach
Mike Lyle
Hayes wrote:
[...]
>
>But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
>birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
>came fairly high.
Oi! my youngest daughter's called Catherine.
Mike.
Richard Fontana
Oh? What's her real name then?
Tracy L. Hemenover
>
> Steve Hayes wrote
> > Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about
> 1968-1975, so
> > one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
>
> I went to school with a lot, and anecdotal evidence suggests that Tracey
> is much more popular than Tracy for UK girls of 28-32.
>
> I suspect this to be related to the Stacy/Stacey thing, where every
> female one I've encountered spelled it with the e.
>
> Lesley/Leslie *ought* to be much more clear-cut but there are enough
> exceptions to the "rule" to make it awkward to argue.
This is my first day of reading this newsgroup. Usually
I lurk for a while before posting (if I ever post at all),
but I couldn't help being attracted to this thread, for
obvious reasons.
I am a female Tracy, born in 1962 in the USA. I'm not
sure why I was given that name, except that my mom may
have had a taste for unusual names, at least unusual in
the US. (I have a sister named Maryll and a brother
named Evan.) I suppose I should consider myself lucky I
wasn't born five to ten years later than I was, or I
might have ended up being named Sunshine or Rainbow
or something like that.
When I was a kid, everyone wanted to spell my name
Tracey. (At least, those who didn't insist on
mishearing it as Stacey.) I was never sure why this
was. I wasn't aware of it being a popular enough
name for people to expect it to be spelled any way
in particular. But apparently it was. So I've
been spelling out my name for people all my life
(and now my last name too, since getting married).
I'm not certain any of this adds anything relevant
to the thread...just wanted to chime in with my
"thrilling" personal experience of being a Tracy.
Tracy
Harvey V
<n9...@iquest.net> wrote:
-snip-
>
> I'm not certain any of this adds anything relevant
> to the thread...just wanted to chime in with my
> "thrilling" personal experience of being a Tracy.
Are you the only person you know who spells it that way, or have you
come across others who spell it without an "e"? If so, is there any
pattern (age or location) that you've noticed?
I suspect that those of us with uncommon first and surnames don't
really think about name duplication. I found it frankly unnerving when
I came across a listing on the internet for someone with my name
(Harvey Van Sickle); I'd never come across the combination other than
for myself and my father.
It felt very strange; I suppose the John Smiths of this world,
however, seldom give it much passing thought.
Ben Zimmer
For the record, her name is "Condoleezza". "Condi" to her friends. A
moment's Googling reveals: "Her mother, a pianist, was thinking of the
musical direction 'con dolcezza', or 'with sweetness'; for her only
child, she composed a variation on it."
--Ben
K1912
>This is my first day of reading this newsgroup. Usually
>I lurk for a while before posting (if I ever post at all),
>but I couldn't help being attracted to this thread, for
>obvious reasons.
>
>I am a female Tracy, born in 1962 in the USA. I'm not
>sure why I was given that name, except that my mom may
>have had a taste for unusual names, at least unusual in
>the US. (I have a sister named Maryll and a brother
>named Evan.) I suppose I should consider myself lucky I
>wasn't born five to ten years later than I was, or I
>might have ended up being named Sunshine or Rainbow
>or something like that.
>
Hello, Tracy. Your post reminds me of a William Hamilton cartoon in the New
Yorker. Two young teenage girls are sitting at a table, drinking tea or
something. One leans over and says to the other: "Promise you'll never, ever
tell. My real name's not Mary. My real name's Cloud Flower."
George
P.S. My sixth-grade teacher was named Tracy. She expelled me from school for
three days once for laughing in class. Being a Greek male born on a Saturday, I
possess the evil eye. So, to make a long story short, I naturally put a curse
on her and she died a couple years later. As a schoolmate told me, she died
because "They took out one of her kidneys and it happened to be the only one
she had."
P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
John Holmes
"R H Draney" <dado...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3bde480e....@news.earthlink.net...
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:03:13 GMT, "Spehro Pefhany"
> <sp...@interlog.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Google: Tracy 1,540,000
> > Tracey 473,000
> > Traci 258,000
> > Tracie 80,700
> > Tracee 12,900
> >
> >As Yu can see, "Tracy" is very popular.
>
> Overlooked here is that "Tracy" (but none of the other spellings) is
> also a common surname, as in the comic-strip detective Dick Tracy and
> the classic actor Spencer Tracy...it can also, albeit infrequently, be
> used as a *male* given name, so if you wish to avoid *all* possible
> ambiguity, the "-i" spelling would take care of that....
The Tracey spelling is also common as a surname. In fact my local phone
book has about twice as many Traceys as Tracys, though that's a fairly
small sample. I think I have also seen the spelling Treacey somewhere.
--
Regards
John
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Condaleeza" does not fall into this category because it was not a
> name that achieved popularity amongst anyone in the UK. Someone in
> the UK would have no preconceived images of its bearer due to being
> familiar with its usage. Before we became familiar with it due to a
> politician in the USA bearing it,
If you're referring to Condi[1] Rice, the current U.S. National
Security Advisor, she isn't a politician. She's a political science
professor at Stanford University (currently on leave). As far as I
know, she's neither held nor sought elected office, although she's
held appointed positions in both Bush administrations.[3]
[1] As her friends and associates[2] call her.
[2] Among whose number I can't count myself, but a few of mine can.
[3] Is that the right way to say it. "The administrations of both
Bushes"?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When you're ready to break a rule,
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |you _know_ that you're ready; you
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |don't need anyone else to tell
|you. (If you're not that certain,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |then you're _not_ ready.)
(650)857-7572 | Tom Phoenix
Skitt
"perchprism" <gbl...@home.com> wrote in message
news:UqTD7.168023$5A3.61...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
>
> So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
I make it a misspelling of "Condoleezza"?
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
Never seen it before. I do know of one "Condoleezza," a Ms. Rice,
who is a high-placed official of the Bush administration.
perchprism
"Skitt" <sk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9rpqne$veco1$1...@ID-61580.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "perchprism" <gbl...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:UqTD7.168023$5A3.61...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> >
> > So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
>
> I make it a misspelling of "Condoleezza"?
My bad. I have now committed it to memory.
Rowan Dingle
>Tracy L. Hemenover wrote:
>>This is my first day of reading this newsgroup.
[...]
>Hello, Tracy.
[...]
>P.S. My sixth-grade teacher was named Tracy. She expelled me from school for
>three days once for laughing in class. Being a Greek male born on a Saturday, I
>possess the evil eye. So, to make a long story short, I naturally put a curse
>on her and she died a couple years later. As a schoolmate told me, she died
>because "They took out one of her kidneys and it happened to be the only one
>she had."
>
>P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
You are one weird dude, George.
--
Rowan Dingle
Jacqui
Yes, thank you, I know that. I happen to have them both on video. Would
you like me to write you an essay on the differences between the two
films?
You snipped the reference: it was taken verbatim (although slightly
snipped) from Brewer's Dictionary of Names. I don't care whether their
writer thinks Grace Kelly was more popular than Katherine Hepburn or
not. I suspect HS has been seen by more people than TPS has, in recent
years, but that's just because one is a musical and one is not, and
musicals get rerun a lot on Saturday afternoon tv IME. But hey, who
gives a shit.
You know, I really can't be arsed with this kind of thing. Go
pointlessly pedant someone else.
Jac
Jacqui
> "High Society" was 1956. Kathryn Hepburn played exactly the same
> character, Tracy Lord, in 1940 ("Philadelphia Story"). One is credited
> with "popularizing" the name and the other not?
>
> I'm pretty leery of all those "was popularized by" claims. They're
easy
> to say and nearly impossible to prove.
"Popularizing" is hard to define, but I'd hazard a guess that in 1940
people were *much* more inclined to stick to traditional/family names
than they were in the 1950s. Things were "new and improved" in the 50s,
and naming kids after film stars, characters, rock and rollers... etc.
was on the up. It's a guess, I've no proof, and you're right about the
1970s being the peak for it, but a) I'd say it was much more common in
the UK than the US anyway - is there any similar data available for
those decades? - and b) fads are funny things.
Jac
Richard Fontana
> If you're referring to Condi[1] Rice, the current U.S. National
> Security Advisor, she isn't a politician. She's a political science
> professor at Stanford University (currently on leave). As far as I
> know, she's neither held nor sought elected office, although she's
> held appointed positions in both Bush administrations.[3]
>
> [1] As her friends and associates[2] call her.
> [2] Among whose number I can't count myself, but a few of mine can.
Maybe people should start figuring out their "Condi Numbers". Condoleezza
Rice's number is 0. Yours is 2. Mine is 4 at the most (no less than 2,
though), which isn't too impressive. Anyone in AUE a 1?
Richard Fontana
> The Tracey spelling is also common as a surname. In fact my local phone
> book has about twice as many Traceys as Tracys, though that's a fairly
> small sample. I think I have also seen the spelling Treacey somewhere.
My local white pages has 13 Traceys and 13 Tracys.
Tracy L. Hemenover
>
> On 31 Oct 2001, I take it that "Tracy L. Hemenover"
> <n9...@iquest.net> wrote:
>
> -snip-
> >
> > I'm not certain any of this adds anything relevant
> > to the thread...just wanted to chime in with my
> > "thrilling" personal experience of being a Tracy.
>
> Are you the only person you know who spells it that way, or have you
> come across others who spell it without an "e"? If so, is there any
> pattern (age or location) that you've noticed?
I must be very sheltered, because I don't recall meeting
another Tracy or Tracey. I know there's an actress named
Tracey Gold, I think there was a gymnast or ice skater
named Traci something-or-other, and there was a male
athlete named Tracy something.
Sorry not to be of more help.
Tracy
Tracy L. Hemenover
>
> Hello, Tracy. Your post reminds me of a William Hamilton cartoon in the New
> Yorker. Two young teenage girls are sitting at a table, drinking tea or
> something. One leans over and says to the other: "Promise you'll never, ever
> tell. My real name's not Mary. My real name's Cloud Flower."
>
> George
I've got a book somewhere that has a paragraph about some
people with hippie names and what they changed their names
to. If I recall correctly, Zowie Bowie (David's son) changed
his name to Joey. And didn't Abbie Hoffman have a son named
amerika (no capital) who also changed his name to something
more conventional?
> P.S. My sixth-grade teacher was named Tracy. She expelled me from school for
> three days once for laughing in class. Being a Greek male born on a Saturday, I
> possess the evil eye. So, to make a long story short, I naturally put a curse
> on her and she died a couple years later. As a schoolmate told me, she died
> because "They took out one of her kidneys and it happened to be the only one
> she had."
>
> P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
I'll try to be very, very careful around you.
Tracy
Spooky Guy Next Door
(tra...@etang.com) posted the following...
> Dear all,
> I chose Tracy as my English name when I was in the university. What I feel
> confused is some ones call me Tracy and others insist it should be Tracey.
> Of course, the pronunciation is also not the same.
> If anyone knows the difference, please tell me. Thanks in advance.
It's a matter of personal preference as to how it's pronounced and how
it's spelt. The person's preference, that is, not the speaker's (that's
just polite).
In fact, I know two people called "Francis" - one who insists it's
"Frarn-cis" (pronounced like the French {TMK} pronounced "Francais") and
one who calls herself "Fran-cis" (hard ā sound, as in "cat") but really
doesn't care.
When you chose your name, you chose your spelling. There are people who
would insist that my real name be spelled "Marc". There are people
who'll insist *anything*. *It's up to you*. AIUI, "Tracey" is the more
traditional name, but if you're going for "correctness" (ha!) there's
still nothing wrong with "Tracy".
As for pronounciation, do you care about how people pronounce it? If so,
then they should pronounce it the same way you do :o). If not, it's not
an issue.
How could one pronounce "Tracy" and "Tracey" differently, anyway?
--
Age doesn't always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone.
blog - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/
cyberfuddle - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/
alt.startrek FAQ - http://www.altstartrek.f2s.com/
learn HTML - http://smiley.vh.mewl.net/markhtml/
K1912
[...]
>I've got a book somewhere that has a paragraph about some
>people with hippie names and what they changed their names
>to. If I recall correctly, Zowie Bowie (David's son) changed
>his name to Joey. And didn't Abbie Hoffman have a son named
>amerika (no capital) who also changed his name to something
>more conventional?
>
Didn't know about Zowie but assume his name is pronounced like Zoe and not like
the interjection. I think Hoffman did have a son named america. I used to know
a guy name Oliver Butt, who said that if he ever had a daughter he would name
her Iona.
>> P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
>
ObAue, come to think of it: shouldn't "unlurking" be "delurking"?
>I'll try to be very, very careful around you.
No need. I retired the evil eye long ago.
George
Steve Hayes
>
>"Matthew M. Huntbach" <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:9rojg8$q0c$6...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
>> Steve Hayes (haye...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>>
>> > Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about
>1968-1975,
>> > so one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
>>
>> I hesitate to tread on this ground after what was thrown at me for doing
>> so last time, but Tracy, though indeed a popular girl's name at this time,
>> was much more popular at the lower end of the class spectrum than at the
>> upper end. It's another of those names that's likely to get one assumed
>> to "from a council estate".
>
>So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
Is it from a particular language group, or is it a nonce name?
Steve Hayes
>> > So what do you make of "Condaleeza"?
>>
>> "Tracy" is one of a number of names which became popular in the UK
>> for a time but whose popularity was largely amongst people towards the
>> lower end of the class scale. Other such girls' names might include
>> "Sharon" or "Kelly", and boys' names might include "Wayne" or "Kevin".
>> The prototypical "Essex girl" is quite likely to be named "Tracy".
>>
>> "Condaleeza" does not fall into this category because it was not a name
>> that achieved popularity amongst anyone in the UK. Someone in the UK would
>> have no preconceived images of its bearer due to being familiar with its
>> usage. Before we became familiar with it due to a politician in the USA
>> bearing it, I guess someone hearing or seeing the name and knowing
>> nothing else about the person would just assume it was a name of
>> foreign origin and thus outside social class assumptions.
>
>Straight answer. You pass with flying colors. I asked because a name like
>"Condaleeza" carries a cachet of the urban jungle, so to speak, to my ear.
>Those made-up, MTV/Blackpride, bongo-music, ersatz-African orthographical
>monstrosities antagonize some of us Anglo-to-the-bone types because they
>ring of Afro-American separatism. I have no idea where the name Condaleeza
>really comes from; I'm just pleased when a stereotype is shattered. I
>suppose you'd figure her for Nigerian or something and let it go at that,
>London being so cosmopolitan.
It certainly doesn't sound African to me. Some kind of Latin-American,
perhaps. Bolivian or Ecuadorian or Peruvian? Inca or related group? But
certainly not African.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Thus Spake Matthew M. Huntbach:
>> Steve Hayes (haye...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>>
>> > Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about 1968-1975,
>> > so one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
>>
>> I hesitate to tread on this ground after what was thrown at me for doing
>> so last time, but Tracy, though indeed a popular girl's name at this time,
>> was much more popular at the lower end of the class spectrum than at the
>> upper end. It's another of those names that's likely to get one assumed
>> to "from a council estate".
>
>A council estate in Essex. And she has a best friend called Sharon.
>
>Trace and Shaz are the local bicycles.
I thought they were sisters.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
As is my sister. She's many things but being a twit or being
upper-class aren't among them. I think Steve Hayes may be from another
planet, but I'm not sure.
Charles Riggs
Harvey V
<mgall...@cyberfuddle.com> wrote:
-snip-
> How could one pronounce "Tracy" and "Tracey" differently, anyway?
>
I wondered that, too...
Harvey
Harvey V
wrote:
Now, now: remember the basics of syllogistic reasoning....
The fact that upper-class twits like the name "Catherine" cannot be
taken to mean that the choice of "Catherine" is restricted to upper
class twits.
Harvey
Matthew M. Huntbach
>> "Condaleeza" does not fall into this category because it was not a
>> name that achieved popularity amongst anyone in the UK. Someone in
>> the UK would have no preconceived images of its bearer due to being
>> familiar with its usage. Before we became familiar with it due to a
>> politician in the USA bearing it,
> If you're referring to Condi[1] Rice, the current U.S. National
> Security Advisor, she isn't a politician.
I thought about this, but really couldn't be bothered to go into the
niceties of the USA constitution (as a result, I suppose we're doomed
for a long thread on what exactly constitutes a "politician"). She is
the equivalent of a UK government minister, who certainly would be
counted as a "politician". On the other had, UK ministers have also
to be elected members of the legislature, whereas USA minister equivalents
aren't. So would it be more correct to refer to her as a "civil servant"?
Matthew Huntbach
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Mike Lyle <nos...@newsranger.com> > wrote:
>> SteveHayes wrote:
>>>But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
>>>birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
>>>came fairly high.
>>Oi! my youngest daughter's called Catherine.
> As is my sister. She's many things but being a twit or being
> upper-class aren't among them. I think Steve Hayes may be from another
> planet, but I'm not sure.
The point is that the fashion for using "Tracy" and other non-traditional
names tends to be amongst those at the lower end of the class spectrum.
So at a time when "Tracy" was actually the most popular name given to
children, it was not seen at all amongst "Times" birth announcements
(this column generally being used by those at the upper end of the class
scale). The upper end of the scale stuck to more traditional names - which
does not mean such names were never used lower down the class scale.
I don't think "Catherine" ever had any particular class connotations, being
fairly widely used across the classes. There seems to be a general
tendency for those at the upper end to pick traditional but slightly
dated names, but for usage of those names to spread downwards. So in 1972
"Emma" might have been seen as "upper class", but it's now widely used
throughout (as in Ms Bunton), same with "Victoria" (as in Mrs Beckham).
Matthew Huntbach
Mike L
being put in the same box as "Marmaduke".
Mike.
Tracy L. Hemenover
>
> >I've got a book somewhere that has a paragraph about some
> >people with hippie names and what they changed their names
> >to. If I recall correctly, Zowie Bowie (David's son) changed
> >his name to Joey. And didn't Abbie Hoffman have a son named
> >amerika (no capital) who also changed his name to something
> >more conventional?
> >
> Didn't know about Zowie but assume his name is pronounced like Zoe and not like
> the interjection. I think Hoffman did have a son named america. I used to know
> a guy name Oliver Butt, who said that if he ever had a daughter he would name
> her Iona.
Ever hear of Ima Hogg and her sister Ura? (Ima was a real
person; Ura was mythical.)
I found my source, BTW. Besides Zowie (Joey) Bowie, they
list Free (son of David Carradine and Barbara Hershey), who
changed his name to Tom. It's a shorter list than I remembered.
But it does mention that in the '60's, Susan St. James named her
kids Harmony and Sunshine, but when she had a couple more
boys in the '80's, she named them Charlie and William.
> >> P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
> >
> ObAue, come to think of it: shouldn't "unlurking" be "delurking"?
I did think that was an unusual wording, but didn't want
to say anything. Can't be too careful around that
evil eye. When I first saw the word "delurking" in
the Star Trek groups and lists, I thought it was
derived from "decloaking".
> >I'll try to be very, very careful around you.
>
> No need. I retired the evil eye long ago.
Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
frowns on smileys, BTW?)
Tracy
Murray Arnow
>frowns on smileys, BTW?)
>
Are there others?
Mike L
Hemenover wrote:
[...]
>Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
>frowns on smileys, BTW?)
>
here, but it helps.
Mike.
Richard Fontana
> Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
> > Mike Lyle <nos...@newsranger.com> > wrote:
> >> SteveHayes wrote:
>
> >>>But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
> >>>birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
> >>>came fairly high.
>
> >>Oi! my youngest daughter's called Catherine.
>
> > As is my sister. She's many things but being a twit or being
> > upper-class aren't among them. I think Steve Hayes may be from another
> > planet, but I'm not sure.
>
> The point is that the fashion for using "Tracy" and other non-traditional
> names tends to be amongst those at the lower end of the class spectrum.
> So at a time when "Tracy" was actually the most popular name given to
> children, it was not seen at all amongst "Times" birth announcements
> (this column generally being used by those at the upper end of the class
> scale). The upper end of the scale stuck to more traditional names - which
> does not mean such names were never used lower down the class scale.
If "Tracey" or "Tracy" was so popular in the UK, could it really have ever
suggested that the bearer grew up "on a council estate" (= US "in public
housing", "in a housing project")? Surely the masses of post-1960 UK
citizens would not in general be characterized as "lower class"?
I've been having trouble thinking of more than two US Tracys (I don't
think I've ever seen the Tracey spelling here) despite the fact that the
name was supposed to be common in my age group. I don't think it was a
lower-class name in the US; probably middle class. Same with
"Stacy".
> I don't think "Catherine" ever had any particular class connotations, being
> fairly widely used across the classes. There seems to be a general
> tendency for those at the upper end to pick traditional but slightly
> dated names, but for usage of those names to spread downwards. So in 1972
> "Emma" might have been seen as "upper class", but it's now widely used
> throughout (as in Ms Bunton), same with "Victoria" (as in Mrs Beckham).
I think the same is true of Emma in the US, which is now one of the most
popular names, but I think it still suggests absence-of-lower-class
status, unlike some other very popular contemporary names. Victoria is a
whole nother story. It probably hasn't suggested upper-class status in a
century or so. Your general observation about class and naming seems
descriptive of the US too.
Richard Fontana
Definitely not. A "civil servant" is a career employee of a government
bureaucracy or government-provided service. There are no doubt people who
work for Rice who would be considered "civil servants" or at least
"members of the civil service", but she's a political appointee.
Don Aitken
<sirlawren...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Mike Lyle wrote
>> 2. When did it become a first name in its own right? I assume it
>started as a
>> diminutive of "Teresa".
>
>Nope. Tracy is a name of Norman origin, from one of the places in the
>north of France called Tracy, suchas Tracy-le-mont near Compiegne... the
>French placename comes from Thracius, "man of Thrace". The name was
>popularized by the character Tracy Lord played by Grace Kelly in High
>Society.
>
>(From Brewer's Dictionary of Names - People & Places & Things)
>
Tracy has a good claim to being the oldest English surname, and
started at the other end of the class spectrum. The first to use it
(as de Tracy) was an illegitimate son of Henry I, born in the late
11th century. 19th century genealogists found a direct male-line
descent from his grandson (another William de Tracy, who was also a
descendent of Charlemagne) to 1797, although at some point the family
changed their name to Sudeley.
--
Don Aitken
Tony Cooper
> I've been having trouble thinking of more than two US Tracys (I don't
> think I've ever seen the Tracey spelling here)
Tracy Chapman, the singer. I don't know how she spells her
name.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Matthew M. Huntbach
> On 1 Nov 2001, Matthew M. Huntbach wrote:
>> The point is that the fashion for using "Tracy" and other non-traditional
>> names tends to be amongst those at the lower end of the class spectrum.
>> So at a time when "Tracy" was actually the most popular name given to
>> children, it was not seen at all amongst "Times" birth announcements
>> (this column generally being used by those at the upper end of the class
>> scale). The upper end of the scale stuck to more traditional names - which
>> does not mean such names were never used lower down the class scale.
> If "Tracey" or "Tracy" was so popular in the UK, could it really have ever
> suggested that the bearer grew up "on a council estate" (= US "in public
> housing", "in a housing project")? Surely the masses of post-1960 UK
> citizens would not in general be characterized as "lower class"?
I think it's very likely to be the case that the proportion of the
population of the USA living in "housing projects" is much less than
the proportion of the UK population living on council estates. That
would have been even more so back in the 1960s and 1970s before the big
move by the 1980s Conservative government to reduce the proportion of
people living in council housing.
Back in the 1960s, council housing was the "norm" for many people. Maybe
30% or even more of the English population would have been housed that way.
In Scotland I believe the proportion was something like 50%.
It was seen as modest housing, but not a mark of real poverty or
desperation.
It's something of an idiosyncracy of mine to use "lower class" where
other people would use "working class". I do this because "working class"
seems a misnomer to me when "middle class" people also work for their
living. Back in the 1960s, the majority of the UK population would have
considered themselves to be "working class".
Matthew Huntbach
K1912
>In alt.usage.english, K1912 <k1...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Tracy L. Hemenover wrote:
>
>>>This is my first day of reading this newsgroup.
>
>[...]
>
>>Hello, Tracy.
>
>[...]
>
>>P.S. My sixth-grade teacher was named Tracy. She expelled me from school for
>>three days once for laughing in class. Being a Greek male born on a
>Saturday, I
>>possess the evil eye. So, to make a long story short, I naturally put a
>curse
>>on her and she died a couple years later. As a schoolmate told me, she died
>>because "They took out one of her kidneys and it happened to be the only one
>>she had."
>>
>>P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
>
>You are one weird dude, George.
>
Is that in my favor? as W.C. Fields used to say. Yesterday wasn't my day. Bob
C. called me annoying and you called me weird. I'm starting to think I have
just about outlived my uselessness to this newsgroup.
Harvey V
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 08:44:42 GMT, in
> <Xns914C58F4...@62.253.162.106>, Harvey V wrote:
-snip-
>>
>> Now, now: remember the basics of syllogistic reasoning....
-snip-
>>
> Far, far, be it from me to undistribute a middle term. I just
> object to the name being put in the same box as "Marmaduke".
>
Fair 'nuff, but you must admit that "Sir Marmaduke and Lady Catherine
Tiddlywit" doesn't sound an *entirely* implausible combination....
Harvey
K1912
[...]
>I found my source, BTW. Besides Zowie (Joey) Bowie, they
>list Free (son of David Carradine and Barbara Hershey), who
>changed his name to Tom. It's a shorter list than I remembered.
>But it does mention that in the '60's, Susan St. James named her
>kids Harmony and Sunshine, but when she had a couple more
>boys in the '80's, she named them Charlie and William.
>
I don't know who Susan St. James is, but I'm glad she came to her senses,
namewise. Are Harmony and Sunshine girls? I had a friend with sisters named
Faith and Hope--I mean one sister was named Faith and the other Hope, not both
named Faith and Hope. If his parents had another girl they were going to name
her Charity.
>> >> P.P.S. See what comes of unlurking. .)
>> >
>> ObAue, come to think of it: shouldn't "unlurking" be "delurking"?
>
>I did think that was an unusual wording, but didn't want
>to say anything. Can't be too careful around that
>evil eye. When I first saw the word "delurking" in
>the Star Trek groups and lists, I thought it was
>derived from "decloaking".
>
>> >I'll try to be very, very careful around you.
>>
>> No need. I retired the evil eye long ago.
>
>Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
>frowns on smileys, BTW?)
>
Most posters do, yes. But that's no reason for you not to use them if you wish
to. {:o|) <----- My Mona Lisa smiley.
George
a1a5...@sprint.ca
>Rowan wrote:
>
>>You are one weird dude, George.
>>
>Is that in my favor? as W.C. Fields used to say. Yesterday wasn't my day. Bob
>C. called me annoying and you called me weird. I'm starting to think I have
>just about outlived my uselessness to this newsgroup.
>
There is considerable satisfaction to be had in annoying certain
people. It may shorten their existence and be as good, therefor, as a
curse. In respect to spell-casting, being neither Celt not Greek, I
am at a disadvantage, but do the best I can.
Skitt
"K1912" <k1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011101124508...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> >
> I don't know who Susan St. James is, but I'm glad she came to her senses,
> namewise. Are Harmony and Sunshine girls? I had a friend with sisters
named
> Faith and Hope--I mean one sister was named Faith and the other Hope, not
both
> named Faith and Hope. If his parents had another girl they were going to
name
> her Charity.
That would have reduced her chances for marriage, as there are many who do
not accept charity.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Rowan Dingle
>>You are one weird dude, George.
>>
>Is that in my favor?
Yes.
> as W.C. Fields used to say. Yesterday wasn't my day. Bob
>C. called me annoying and you called me weird. I'm starting to think I have
>just about outlived my uselessness to this newsgroup.
You haven't even started re-inliving it, George. You don't post enough
these days.
I'm sorry that I hit a bum note. It wasn't intended to make you feel
like a bum. I was feeling very fluid at the time and felt that even the
most abrupt message could be made to flow, and flow in the intended
direction.
In short...
But you know the rest.
--
Rowan Dingle
Bob Cunningham
>There is considerable satisfaction to be had in annoying certain
>people.
A case in point is Clarence.
>It may shorten their existence [...]
But I wouldn't go so far as to wish for Clarence a hastened death.
Tracy L. Hemenover
>
> >I found my source, BTW. Besides Zowie (Joey) Bowie, they
> >list Free (son of David Carradine and Barbara Hershey), who
> >changed his name to Tom. It's a shorter list than I remembered.
> >But it does mention that in the '60's, Susan St. James named her
> >kids Harmony and Sunshine, but when she had a couple more
> >boys in the '80's, she named them Charlie and William.
> >
> I don't know who Susan St. James is, but I'm glad she came to her senses,
> namewise. Are Harmony and Sunshine girls?
I have no clue. The book doesn't say. I *hope* they're
girls, since unusual names are generally more "socially
acceptable" for girls. (Susan St. James: actress whose
heyday was in the '60's and 70's. I know her mainly
from Love at First Bite.)
>I had a friend with sisters named
> Faith and Hope--I mean one sister was named Faith and the other Hope, not both
> named Faith and Hope. If his parents had another girl they were going to name
> her Charity.
A friend of mine watches a soap opera where there were
twin sisters named Faith and Grace, and Faith had a
daughter named Charity.
I resolve that if I should become a parent, I will
resist the temptation to be cute when naming my kids.
> >Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
> >frowns on smileys, BTW?)
> >
> Most posters do, yes. But that's no reason for you not to use them if you wish
> to. {:o|) <----- My Mona Lisa smiley.
>
> George
Ah, OK. Over at alt.folklore.urban, where I've lurked
on and off, they get really snotty about them.
Tracy
Richard Fontana
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> > I've been having trouble thinking of more than two US Tracys (I don't
> > think I've ever seen the Tracey spelling here)
>
> Tracy Chapman, the singer. I don't know how she spells her
> name.
Yep. I can think of others too; I meant Tracys I've been personally
acquainted with. There was one in a summer camp I attended when I was
about 9 and there was one in my year at college. That's it. Perhaps it
wasn't regionally popular.
Harvey V
<n9...@iquest.net> wrote:
-snip-
>>> Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
>>> frowns on smileys, BTW?)
>>>
>> Most posters do, yes. But that's no reason for you not to use them
>> if you wish to. {:o|) <----- My Mona Lisa smiley.
>>
>> George
>
> Ah, OK. Over at alt.folklore.urban, where I've lurked
> on and off, they get really snotty about them.
Some people here do, as well[1].
But I don't. ;)
Harvey
[1] There seems to be a line of argument that surfaces at times in here
that if the reader cannot divine the irony in the post, it is somehow
the reader's problem rather than the writer's. The argument is, of
course, entirely fallacious.... ;)
Robert Lieblich
"Senior government official." It's not just a journalistic
euphemism.
Robert Lieblich
Then there's Tracy Scroggins, defensive end, Detroit Lions
(professional team) <http://www.nfl.com/players/4235.htm>. His
weight is listed at 273 pounds, and it's probably all muscle. I
doubt he gets teased about having a girl's name. I've known several
female Tracy/Traceys, but that's hardly unusual.
R J Valentine
_That's_ reassuring.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
( //
http://www.alt-usage-english.org
.) //
Tony Cooper
>
> > I don't know who Susan St. James is, but I'm glad she came to her senses,
> > namewise. Are Harmony and Sunshine girls? I had a friend with sisters
> named
> > Faith and Hope--I mean one sister was named Faith and the other Hope, not
> both
> > named Faith and Hope. If his parents had another girl they were going to
> name
> > her Charity.
>
> That would have reduced her chances for marriage, as there are many who do
> not accept charity.
All the parents had to do was stay home one night because
Charity.............
N.Mitchum
----
> > *Philadelphia Story*, do you mean? With Katherine Hepburn as
> > Tracy and Archie Leach as C.K. Dexter Haven? (*High Society* was
> > a remake, done some 15 years later.)
>
> Yes, thank you, I know that. I happen to have them both on video. Would
> you like me to write you an essay on the differences between the two
> films?
>....
Whatever pleases you, but I don't know why you're crabbing at me.
----
> You snipped the reference: it was taken verbatim (although slightly
> snipped) from Brewer's Dictionary of Names.
>....
That you copied the quotation without comment led me to suppose
that you endorsed its contents. Still, I can't figure how you
(and Brewer's) can believe a fluffy, forgettable musical has done
more to popularize a name than the classic original.
-----
> You know, I really can't be arsed with this kind of thing. Go
> pointlessly pedant someone else.
>....
>From me, it's pointless pedantry. From you, it's ... what? An
innocent bit of normal dialogue? I'll try to keep your double
standard in mind.
"Arsed"? What's that mean? Looks like it might mean "bothered"
or possibly "waste time on." Is it common among your age group?
----NM
Steve Hayes
>On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:33:10 GMT, in <3be00a56...@news.saix.net>, Steve
>Hayes wrote:
>[...]
>>
>>But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
>>birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
>>came fairly high.
>
>Oi! my youngest daughter's called Catherine.
Was she born in 1972?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:56:24 GMT, Mike Lyle <nos...@newsranger.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:33:10 GMT, in <3be00a56...@news.saix.net>, Steve
>>Hayes wrote:
>>[...]
>>>
>>>But I think Catherine was top among the upper-class twit names, taken from
>>>birth announcements in "The Times", where Emma, Victoria and Harriett also
>>>came fairly high.
>>
>>Oi! my youngest daughter's called Catherine.
>>
>
>As is my sister. She's many things but being a twit or being
>upper-class aren't among them. I think Steve Hayes may be from another
>planet, but I'm not sure.
In this case, the planet is whichever planet Guinness comes from.
Matti Lamprhey
> Jacqui wrote:
> >
> > You know, I really can't be arsed with this kind of thing. Go
> > pointlessly pedant someone else.
>
> or possibly "waste time on." Is it common among your age group?
You have interpreted it correctly, and it's been relatively common slang in
Britain for decades.
I thought it was going out of fashion, so I'm pleased to see young Jac
keeping this vulgarism alive. There should be lottery grants for it.
Matti
Spooky Guy Next Door
(matti-...@totally-official.com) posted the following...
Been in Aus for quite a while too.
For several years now, though, I've heard more of "couldn't be fucked"
than "couldn't be arsed".
Fortunately, it seems to be up for a semi-revival.
--
Age doesn't always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone.
blog - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/
cyberfuddle - http://www.cyberfuddle.com/
alt.startrek FAQ - http://www.altstartrek.f2s.com/
learn HTML - http://smiley.vh.mewl.net/markhtml/
Matthew M. Huntbach
If anything, it's a usage which has experienced a rapid growth in recent
years. I hardly remember it occurring at all a few years ago, now one
hears it all the time. Maybe, given the recent tendency for UK people
to use the USA "ass" for the noun, the older version of the word will be
kept alive as a verb in this way.
Matthew Huntbach
Frances Kemmish
I don't remember hearing it at all when I lived in England. Now, when
I go back there, it seems fairly common. From this evidence, I deduce
that it has become popular within the last 16 years.
Fran
K1912
Forget it--we all feel a little fluid now and then. But just to be on the safe
side, Rowan--stay off of ladders for a few days.
George
Jacqui
> Jacqui wrote:
> > > *Philadelphia Story*, do you mean? With Katherine Hepburn as
> > > Tracy and Archie Leach as C.K. Dexter Haven? (*High Society* was
> > > a remake, done some 15 years later.)
> >
> > Yes, thank you, I know that. I happen to have them both on video.
Would
> > you like me to write you an essay on the differences between the two
> > films?
> >....
>
> Whatever pleases you, but I don't know why you're crabbing at me.
Because I dislike the "do you mean" bit. If I meant that I'd have said
so. If I'm saying something else, or quoting something else, and not
mentioning TPS or Hepburn, it's a pretty safe bet that I don't mean TPS
or Hepburn.
I have had a lot of irritation lately with other people telling me what
I do or don't mean, when I know for sure what I do mean.
FWIW I don't think (for reasons already stated in this thread, and later
in this message) that Hepburn's version will have had such an impact on
names; this may or may not be reflected in statistics for the UK (this
being a quote from a UK book); I don't know for sure.
> > You snipped the reference: it was taken verbatim (although slightly
> > snipped) from Brewer's Dictionary of Names.
> >....
>
> That you copied the quotation without comment led me to suppose
> that you endorsed its contents. Still, I can't figure how you
> (and Brewer's) can believe a fluffy, forgettable musical has done
> more to popularize a name than the classic original.
See above. Sometimes quotes are merely for illustration, sometimes I
endorse them more fervently. In this case I don't really care about the
subject, but merely wanted to point out that Tracy arrived in English
from French, not from a (strange) corruption of Theresa (which I can't
even vaguely hear as plausible, TBH, but that may be because of my
favoured pronunciation of Theresa).
> > You know, I really can't be arsed with this kind of thing. Go
> > pointlessly pedant someone else.
> >....
>
> >From me, it's pointless pedantry. From you, it's ... what? An
> innocent bit of normal dialogue? I'll try to keep your double
> standard in mind.
No double standard seen. Tracy didn't derive from Theresa, except
perhaps in one or two anecdotal and recent individual occurences.
Pointing this out was not pedantry but an answer to Mike Lyle's question
and assumption.
> 2. When did it become a first name in its own right? I assume it
> started as a diminutive of "Teresa".
If answering that was pedantry then what *isn't*?
Telling me that High Society was a remake was a bit pointless, since
that wasn't really that relevant, and I knew it anyway (not, admittedly,
that you knew that. But give me some credit). Naming data suggests
Trac(e)y became popular later rather than earlier, so the later film
(which wasn't exactly insignificant) is quite likely to have had more
impact than the earlier one. Mothers naming their children Trac(e)y in
the peak periods of the name's popularity were quite likely not even
born when The Philadelphia Story came out. [This based on the fact that
a lot of them are contemporaries of mine, and my mother - "elderly
primagravida" for her generation - wasn't born until 1945. Of the
Traceys I know, older and younger than me, almost all have mothers
younger than mine.]
> "Arsed"? What's that mean? Looks like it might mean "bothered"
> or possibly "waste time on." Is it common among your age group?
Got it in one. "I can't be bothered." It generally implies laziness or
tiredness rather than general disinclination.
Jac
Harvey V
> Rowan Dingle wrote:
>> In alt.usage.english, K1912 <k1...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Rowan wrote:
>>
>>>> You are one weird dude, George.
>>> Is that in my favor?
>> Yes.
>>> as W.C. Fields used to say. Yesterday wasn't my day. Bob
>>> C. called me annoying and you called me weird. I'm starting to
>>> think I have just about outlived my uselessness to this
>>> newsgroup.
-snip-
>> I'm sorry that I hit a bum note. It wasn't intended to make you
>> feel like a bum. I was feeling very fluid at the time and felt
>> that even the most abrupt message could be made to flow, and flow
>> in the intended direction.
-snip-
> Forget it--we all feel a little fluid now and then. But just to be
> on the safe side, Rowan--stay off of ladders for a few days.
>
I generally picked up the flow in Rowan's original post, and I *think*
your last comment falls into the same category....
Alas.
It's yet another case where the a.u.e. prejudice against the occasional
emoticon might again have proved unfortunate. ;)
Harvey
Jacqui
> N.Mitchum wrote...
> > Jacqui wrote:
> > >
> > > You know, I really can't be arsed with this kind of thing. Go
> > > pointlessly pedant someone else.
> >
> > "Arsed"? What's that mean? Looks like it might mean "bothered"
> > or possibly "waste time on." Is it common among your age group?
>
> You have interpreted it correctly, and it's been relatively common
slang in
> Britain for decades.
Seems to have increased in popularity lately, but that might be the
company I keep. Or "Father Ted".
> I thought it was going out of fashion, so I'm pleased to see young Jac
> keeping this vulgarism alive. There should be lottery grants for it.
I will willingly accept large amounts of money to say this. Cheques or
cash.
Jac
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
>I found my source, BTW. Besides Zowie (Joey) Bowie, they
>list Free (son of David Carradine and Barbara Hershey), who
>changed his name to Tom. It's a shorter list than I remembered.
>But it does mention that in the '60's, Susan St. James named her
>kids Harmony and Sunshine, but when she had a couple more
>boys in the '80's, she named them Charlie and William.
Chinese who come to English-speaking countries often adopt
English-style first names. One rep on the University of British
Columbia Student Society was named Sunshine.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Gene Wirchenko
Spehro Pefhany
> Chinese who come to English-speaking countries often adopt
> English-style first names. One rep on the University of British
> Columbia Student Society was named Sunshine.
Most of the Chinese I talk to overseas also have English names.
Usually their business cards are double-sided if they deal with
foreigners a lot. Some seem to be oddball names that are mapped from
similar-sounding Chinese names (Fifi for a female medical doctor). Others
should have been checked out with a native speaker (Ruby Kok).
Best regards,
--
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
/.-.\
(( * ))
\\ // Please help if you can:
\\\ http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
//\\\
/// \\\
\/ \/
Rowan Dingle
>It's yet another case where the a.u.e. prejudice against the occasional
>emoticon might again have proved unfortunate. ;)
.)
--
Rowan Dingle
Linz
> Steve Hayes wrote
> > Tracy/Tracey was the most popular girl's name in the UK in about
> 1968-1975, so
> > one can expect a lot of Tracys to be 30-something now.
>
> I went to school with a lot, and anecdotal evidence suggests that Tracey
> is much more popular than Tracy for UK girls of 28-32.
>
> I suspect this to be related to the Stacy/Stacey thing, where every
> female one I've encountered spelled it with the e.
>
> Lesley/Leslie *ought* to be much more clear-cut but there are enough
> exceptions to the "rule" to make it awkward to argue.
A bit like the Lindsay/Lindsey "rule"...
--
Men; hot water bottles that also take out the rubbish.
Linz
> "Tracy L. Hemenover" <n9...@iquest.net> wrote:
> >
> >Oh good. :-) (Is this one of those groups that
> >frowns on smileys, BTW?)
> >
>
> Are there others?
Oh yes. I subscribe to two. They're both uk.* groups, which might have
something to do with it.
Linz
> Tracy L. Hemenover wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >I've got a book somewhere that has a paragraph about some
> >people with hippie names and what they changed their names
> >to. If I recall correctly, Zowie Bowie (David's son) changed
> >his name to Joey. And didn't Abbie Hoffman have a son named
> >amerika (no capital) who also changed his name to something
> >more conventional?
> >
> Didn't know about Zowie but assume his name is pronounced like Zoe and not like
> the interjection. I think Hoffman did have a son named america. I used to know
> a guy name Oliver Butt, who said that if he ever had a daughter he would name
> her Iona.
The advice I read was that Zowie's name should rhyme with his surname.
Linz
It's common enough to have its own abbreviation in some newsgroups (at
least one of which I see Jacqui in) - ICBA.