Pronouncing decimal numbers

[Commander Kinsey]

How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the latter and it's very annoying.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:04:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054...@4ax.com>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78...@googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.2...@fx10.am4>

[Mark Lloyd]

I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.

* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
learned that in about 4th grade.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the
politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius (99 - 55
B.C.E.)

[Peeler]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd, another absolutely brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile cretin, drivelled:

> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
> that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>
> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
> learned that in about 4th grade.

What you STILL haven't learned is not to feed the troll, you troll-feeding
senile ASSHOLE!

[rbowman]

I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
T.A.M.I Show'. It's not relevant to the question but it was a 1964 music
production with James Brown, The Rolling Stones, and others. Even at the
time, there wasn't agreement what T.A.M.I stood for, maybe 'Teen Age Music
International'.

Anywas there was the acronym T.A.M.I in its full glory. That reminded me
that it used to be F.B.I., C.I.A., U.S.A, and so forth. Somewhere along
the line people apparently found all those periods too much work.

The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
those who insist on using a comma.

[TonyCooper]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd <not....@all.invalid>
wrote:

>On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354?  Is it two point three five four, or
>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four?  My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
>I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
>that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>
>* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
>learned that in about 4th grade.

There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
the same way.

I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Peeler]

On 18 Mar 2023 18:24:20 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
> T.A.M.I Show'.

Oh, no! Not yet more thrilling details from the resident bigmouth's and
drama queen's thrilling senile life! LOL

<FLUSH rest of senile crap unread again>

--
More of the pathological senile gossip's sick shit squeezed out of his sick
head:
"Skunk probably tastes like chicken. I've never gotten that comparison,
most famously with Chicken of the Sea. Tuna is a fish and tastes like a
fish. I will admit I've had chicken that tasted like fish. I don't think I
want to know what they were feeding it."
MID: <k44t5l...@mid.individual.net>

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd

<not....@all.invalid> wrote:

>On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354?  Is it two point three five four, or

Of your two choices, it's the first, two point... Of course there is
two and three hundred fifty four thousandths.

>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four?  My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
>I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
>that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.

Yes, I was told that in grammar school too. For example, one shouldn't
say a hundred and twenty, but should say a hundred twenty

Of course these days, we'd put a stop to this grooming and
indoctrination.

>
>* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
>learned that in about 4th grade.

I don't think I was told that. Probably too late to remember it now.
Darn.

[Silvano]

rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:

> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
> those who insist on using a comma.

Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
countries.
The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
European point of view.
OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.

Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
(12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.

[Mack A. Damia]

"Thousandths".

(.345)

One = tenths
Two = hundredths
Three = thousandths.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>
>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>> point.

Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

The example cited by Kinsey is just plain sloppy.

>> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC,
>> I learned that in about 4th grade.
>
> There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
> the same way.
>
> I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
> three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

You meant thousandths, of course. But there is the trap in trying to use
fractional notation in such cases. The correct final word (hundredths,
thousandths, etc.) depends on how many digits there are, and is
therefore easy to get wrong.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>
>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>> point.
>
>Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>I know

"Two and three five four"? Nobody would say that in the US.

>. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

"Two and three five"? Nobody in the US would say that either.

Some people might sometimes say "two and thirty-five" to represent
$2.35, but even there " "two and thirty-five cents" would be more
common.

Probably most common is "two thirty-five."

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 7:34:19 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> > <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> >>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
> >>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
> >>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
> >> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
> >> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
> >> point.
>
> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as

Canada?? I've never heard it. There's disagreement on whether to use
"and" between the hundreds and the tens.

> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
>
> The example cited by Kinsey is just plain sloppy.
>
> >> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC,
> >> I learned that in about 4th grade.
> > There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
> > the same way.
> > I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
> > three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

Oy.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>
>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>> point.
>
>Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
maybe inches.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 13:13, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>>
>>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>>> point.
>>
>> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
>
> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> maybe inches.

Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
point seven five inches.

Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.

Another situation where "and" works in Australia is with a number like
five hundred and thirty three (Which does not mean 500.33).

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
> point seven five inches.

Are your carpenter's tapes metric?

> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.

I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric. I got it to lay out
the hole spacing for Irish flutes. The formulae are odd percentages like
73% of the overall length and metric works better. I also have a 6" steel
rule in tenths for some projects.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 17:06, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
>> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
>> point seven five inches.
>
> Are your carpenter's tapes metric?

Yes, definitely, although some have dual units. All carpenters' drawings
(building plans, etc.) are in millimetres.

>> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.
>
> I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric. I got it to lay out
> the hole spacing for Irish flutes. The formulae are odd percentages like
> 73% of the overall length and metric works better. I also have a 6" steel
> rule in tenths for some projects.

My steel rule is 30 cm on one side and 12 inches on the other.

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 06:06:28 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric.

Tell him also about the big mouth you got, the one that loves so much to
tell everyone ever more details about your grand life and that you love so
much to listen to, senile chatterbox! ;-)

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"My family loaded me into a '51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in '52. I'm alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going."
MID: <j2kuc1...@mid.individual.net>

[Ben Verified - ✅]

micky wrote:
> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> maybe inches.

Fractional integers? New Democrat math?

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 18:24:20 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:04:34 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or
>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
> I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
> T.A.M.I Show'. It's not relevant to the question but it was a 1964 music
> production with James Brown, The Rolling Stones, and others. Even at the
> time, there wasn't agreement what T.A.M.I stood for, maybe 'Teen Age Music
> International'.
>
> Anywas there was the acronym T.A.M.I in its full glory. That reminded me
> that it used to be F.B.I., C.I.A., U.S.A, and so forth. Somewhere along
> the line people apparently found all those periods too much work.

There are too many acronyms altogether. At my last place of work, we actually had two acronyms meaning entirely different things. If you type any three letters into acronym finder, you will get 30 results!

> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
> those who insist on using a comma.

It's a fullstop, not a period. A period is when you don't want to fuck your wife.

Yeah Europeans are thick, they think 12,345 is twelve and a third.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:22:25 -0000, Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:
>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>> those who insist on using a comma.
>
>
> Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
> countries.
> The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
> European point of view.
> OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.

You are wrong, end of story. It's "4 point 5". So use the point, not the comma. How would you read your version of four and a half "4,5" aloud? Do you say "comma"?

> Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
> (12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
> fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
> remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.

Only the English makes sense. Divide into thousands, because that's what we have words for. Thousand, million, billion, etc. And what we use for prefixes, kilo, mega, giga, etc.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 00:12:08 -0000, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> rbowman <bow...@montana.com> writes:
>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>> those who insist on using a comma.
>

> These conventions are often country-specific.
>
> But programmers are a tight-knit community. C programmers all
> agree on the meaning of the dot in C numerals, no matter what
> country they come from or where they live.
>
> In Germany, the comma is usually used instead, but on price
> tags you can sometimes see the dot used with the same meaning,
> i.e., as a decimal separator.

Are you saying in Germany they can't decide whether to use . or , to seperate whole numbers from decimals?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:47:07 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/03/23 13:13, micky wrote:
> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
> > <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> >>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> >>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
> >>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
> >>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
> >>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
> >>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
> >>>> point.
> >> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
> >> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
> >> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
> >> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
> > And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> > maybe inches.
>
> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
> point seven five inches.

The BBC says "two and a half thousand" where we say "twenty-five
hundred."

> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.
>
> Another situation where "and" works in Australia is with a number like
> five hundred and thirty three (Which does not mean 500.33).

I _think_ we were taught to say "five hundred thirty-three," but I
don't think it took. But it had nothing to do with "and" for "point."

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:23:52 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> There are too many acronyms altogether. At my last place of work, we
> actually had two acronyms meaning entirely different things. If you
> type any three letters into acronym finder, you will get 30 results!

Yes, the BBC might want to change its name. A twitter user pointed out ATM
has several meanings, one of which I did not have to know.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:18:21 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Yes, definitely, although some have dual units. All carpenters' drawings
> (building plans, etc.) are in millimetres.

Are lumber dimensions, windows, prehung doors and so forth also metric? A
51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.

It must have been an interesting transition. An architect friend told me
construction innovations were difficult because ultimately you came up
against standardized dimensions. For example there was a technique of
laying up a brick wall dry and spraying it with an epoxy bonding agent. It
was structurally sound but without the traditional mortar joint nothing
fit. Of course the trade unions weren't enthusiastic either.

[charles]

In article <k7p3vj...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
wrote:

Timber (lumber across the Pond) is stilll thought of in Imperial Units.
your bit is 2x4 although I know it as 4x2.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 18:52:36 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Are lumber dimensions, windows, prehung doors and so forth also metric? A
> 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>
> It must have been an interesting transition. An architect friend told me

You actually had a friend? You mean, someone who was willing to listen to
your endless grandiloquent blather, you self-admiring senile chatterbox? LOL

--
More of the senile gossip's absolutely idiotic senile blather:
"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn't do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
'We keep God's time in Virginia.'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while."

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 18:18:27 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Yes, the BBC might want to change its name. A twitter user pointed out ATM
> has several meanings, one of which I did not have to know.

Feeling better now, after you managed to squeeze yet more shit out of your
senile head, senile bigmouth?

[Mark Lloyd]

When I don't need to be really accurate, I consider a meter to be 39
inches (three and a quarter feet).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car
keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke (1947- )

[Mark Lloyd]

Here's my BBC:

"BBC keyboard assistant, self-installing retail version"

http://notstupid.us/IMG_0766

[Rich Ulrich]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan

Nowadays, we almost always write the digits, not the words.

Writing out numbers was more popular in the 19th century, and
the custom then seems to have been to use the word "and" after
the count of hundreds. A few months ago, I argued that some
piece of text sounded anacrhonistic for the 19th century /because/
it left out the "and".

A few years ago, I decided to stop writing the "and" on my rent
checks ... but I don't think that the "and" was a life-long habit.
Writing checks is my main occasion for writing out a large number.

--
Rich Ulrich

[Peter Moylan]

On 20/03/23 05:52, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:18:21 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, definitely, although some have dual units. All carpenters'
>> drawings (building plans, etc.) are in millimetres.
>
> Are lumber dimensions, windows, prehung doors and so forth also
> metric?

Yes.

> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.

Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.

[Peter Moylan]

On 20/03/23 08:25, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
> When I don't need to be really accurate, I consider a meter to be 39
> inches (three and a quarter feet).

Likewise, I think of a foot as being approximately one nanosecond. Or 30
cm, in some situations.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:25:59 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:


> When I don't need to be really accurate, I consider a meter to be 39
> inches (three and a quarter feet).

When I don't have to be really accurate I consider a meter to be a yard.
The local range has target backers at 2, 3, 4, and 500 meters but yards is
close enough. (a few strolls out to 400 meters and back adds up)

I do better with kilometers to miles due to driving in Canada.

[rbowman]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:10:41 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 20/03/23 08:25, Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> When I don't need to be really accurate, I consider a meter to be 39
>> inches (three and a quarter feet).
>
> Likewise, I think of a foot as being approximately one nanosecond. Or 30
> cm, in some situations.

For some reason many people of my generation know how many grams there are
in an ounce. I also know 9mm is .354 in, most certainly not .357.

[rbowman]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>
> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.

What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
1/2 x 3 1/2 ".

https://www.popsci.com/two-by-four-lumber-measurements-explained/

They've never been 2x4 in my life time although when I was a kid they were
a little larger. I think '64 was when the industry standardized.

You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
4x8).

Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
to translate this mess to metric.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:54:11 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:

> Here's my BBC:
>
> "BBC keyboard assistant, self-installing retail version"
>
> http://notstupid.us/IMG_0766

I had one of those but he went out one morning last July and never came
back. Coyotes are rough on the cats around here. He wouldn't have been
happy as an indoor cat so you make your choices and take the consequences.

[Peeler]

On 20 Mar 2023 03:58:16 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".
>
> https://www.popsci.com/two-by-four-lumber-measurements-explained/
>
> They've never been 2x4 in my life time although when I was a kid they were
> a little larger. I think '64 was when the industry standardized.
>
> You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
> find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
> theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
> thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
> 4x8).
>
> Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
> to translate this mess to metric.

The resident bigmouth is at it, again! LMAO

[Peeler]

On 20 Mar 2023 02:27:11 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> For some reason many people of my generation know how many grams there are
> in an ounce. I also know 9mm is .354 in, most certainly not .357.

But ALL people of your generation know what an abnormal bigmouthed,
self-admiring, senile braggart you are, gossip girl! ;-)

--
Yet more of the very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"I save my fries quota for one of the local food trucks that offers
poutine every now and then. If you're going for a coronary might as well
do it right."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On 20 Mar 2023 02:22:27 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> When I don't have to be really accurate I consider a meter to be a yard.

When I don't have to really observe social conventions, I consider you an
abnormal, self-admiring, self-important, endlessly gossiping washerwoman or,
IOW, a typical Trumptard! LOL

--
More typical idiotic senile gossip by lowbrowwoman:
"It's been years since I've been in a fast food burger joint but I used
to like Wendy's because they had a salad bar and baked potatoes."
MID: <ivdi4g...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On 20 Mar 2023 04:05:01 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I had one of those but he went out one morning last July and never came
> back. Coyotes are rough on the cats around here. He wouldn't have been
> happy as an indoor cat so you make your choices and take the consequences.

Isn't there some newsgroup like alt.lonely.senile-gossips where you would
feel at home, you endlessly gossiping senile washerwoman?

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-19 21:58, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>
>>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>>
>> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
>> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.
>
> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".
>
> https://www.popsci.com/two-by-four-lumber-measurements-explained/
>
> They've never been 2x4 in my life time although when I was a kid they were
> a little larger. I think '64 was when the industry standardized.
>
> You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
> find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
> theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
> thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
> 4x8).

'round these parts, the pre-cut studs are plainly marked by signage.
People who are not aware of the difference will usually only get bitten
once.

> Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
> to translate this mess to metric.

--
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
—Isaac Asimov

[rbowman]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 14:06:10 -0600, lar3ryca wrote:


> 'round these parts, the pre-cut studs are plainly marked by signage.
> People who are not aware of the difference will usually only get bitten
> once.

After they build a slightly undersized picnic table :) The last time I
bought any they should have been labeled 'pre-cut corkscrews' :)

[Peeler]

On 21 Mar 2023 05:02:24 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> After they build a slightly undersized picnic table :) The last time I
> bought any they should have been labeled 'pre-cut corkscrews' :)

And the senile gossiping continues...

--

[Phil Carmody]

Ben Verified - ✅ <ben.ve...@fact.checker-org> writes:

> micky wrote:
>> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
>> maybe inches.
>

> Fractional integers? New Democrat math?

Does "followed by" mean something different to you than the rest of us?

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

[Phil Carmody]

"Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> writes:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:22:25 -0000, Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>> rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:
>>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>>> those who insist on using a comma.
>>
>> Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
>> countries.
>> The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
>> European point of view.
>> OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.
>
> You are wrong, end of story. It's "4 point 5". So use the point, not
> the comma. How would you read your version of four and a half "4,5"
> aloud? Do you say "comma"?

Yes, most do. Many call the symbol, when used in that context, the
"decimal comma", in exactly the same way that Brits call it the "decimal
point". However this nomenclature isn't universal, there are two
European languages I'm familiar with where the symbol is ",", and the
name given to it would translate specifically to "point".

Perhaps instead of making such outbursts in disbelief, perform a little
bit of research, so that you can have a chance of correcting your
ignorance before displaying it in a public forum.

>> Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
>> (12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
>> fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
>> remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.
>
> Only the English makes sense. Divide into thousands, because that's
> what we have words for. Thousand, million, billion, etc. And what we
> use for prefixes, kilo, mega, giga, etc.

Oh, my - I'm guessing you're completely unaware of the mistake you've
just made. Moderate chuckles will abound, I'm sure.

Anyone for a game of billiards?

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-21, Phil Carmody <pc+u...@asdf.org> wrote:
> Ben Verified - ✅ <ben.ve...@fact.checker-org> writes:
>> micky wrote:
>>> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
>>> maybe inches.
>>
>> Fractional integers? New Democrat math?
>
> Does "followed by" mean something different to you than the rest of us?

Sorry. Ben Verified seems to have forgotten (or never was taught) that
a mixed fraction consists of an integer and a proper fraction.

Or perhaps he's blissfully ignorant of the fact that we've been
discussing real numbers all along.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Peeler]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 12:36:33 +0200, Phil Carmody, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile moron, blathered:

> Oh, my - I'm guessing you're completely unaware of the mistake you've
> just made. Moderate chuckles will abound, I'm sure.

I'm guessing you're completely unaware that you just played the PROVEN
clinically insane, trolling attention whore's game! <tsk>

--
More details from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL) sociopathic
"mind":
"If I wanted you to stab me with a knife and kill me, you should not
get into trouble for it".
"I would kill my sister if I thought I'd get away with it".
"I'm not what most people think of as human".
(Courtesy of Mr Pounder)

[Silvano]

Phil Carmody hat am 21.03.2023 um 11:36 geschrieben:

> "Commander Kinsey" <C...@nospam.com> writes:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:22:25 -0000, Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>>> rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:
>>>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>>>> those who insist on using a comma.
>>>
>>> Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
>>> countries.
>>> The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
>>> European point of view.
>>> OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.
>>
>> You are wrong, end of story. It's "4 point 5". So use the point, not
>> the comma. How would you read your version of four and a half "4,5"
>> aloud? Do you say "comma"?
>
> Yes, most do. Many call the symbol, when used in that context, the
> "decimal comma", in exactly the same way that Brits call it the "decimal
> point". However this nomenclature isn't universal, there are two
> European languages I'm familiar with where the symbol is ",", and the
> name given to it would translate specifically to "point".
>
> Perhaps instead of making such outbursts in disbelief, perform a little
> bit of research, so that you can have a chance of correcting your
> ignorance before displaying it in a public forum.

+1
German: vier Komma fünf
Italian: quattro virgola cinque

>>> Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
>>> (12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
>>> fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
>>> remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.
>>
>> Only the English makes sense. Divide into thousands, because that's
>> what we have words for. Thousand, million, billion, etc. And what we
>> use for prefixes, kilo, mega, giga, etc.
>
> Oh, my - I'm guessing you're completely unaware of the mistake you've
> just made. Moderate chuckles will abound, I'm sure.

Kinsey has no idea that the Japanese have a word for ten thousand (man)
and another one for one hundred million (oku).
Multiples thereof, literally translated:
100,000 = ten "man"
1,000,000 = one hundred "man"
10,000,000 = one thousand "man"
1,000,000,000 = ten "oku"
etc.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <tvaebi$3lqh7$1...@dont-email.me>, la...@invalid.ca says...

>
> > You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
> > find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
> > theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
> > thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
> > 4x8).
>
> 'round these parts, the pre-cut studs are plainly marked by signage.
> People who are not aware of the difference will usually only get bitten
> onc
>

The 2x4 has been srinking in the 2x4 part for many years. I have some
that are about 30 years old and they are thicker than the newer ones.
That would make the stud wall 92 5/8 length slightly different because
of the bottom and top plates. The plywood for floors have changed
thickness too. The lumber companies just will not stick to the same
'standard' sizes.

[Ken Blake]

The lumber companies just want to make more money.

[Jim Joyce]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 12:10:03 -0400, Ralph Mowery <rmow...@charter.net>
wrote:

>In article <tvaebi$3lqh7$1...@dont-email.me>, la...@invalid.ca says...
>>
>> > You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
>> > find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
>> > theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
>> > thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
>> > 4x8).
>>
>> 'round these parts, the pre-cut studs are plainly marked by signage.
>> People who are not aware of the difference will usually only get bitten
>> onc
>>
>
>The 2x4 has been srinking in the 2x4 part for many years.

Wasn't that a one-time "shrink" in 1964, when 2x4's actually became
1.5x3.5? I haven't seen any further shrinkage since then. You can buy
2x3's (1.5x2.5) but that's a whole different product.

As for the length, everywhere I've been they've been clearly marked,
with the vast majority being 96" (8 feet) and one stack out of the bunch
clearly marked at the shorter length.

When it comes to dimensional lumber bigger than 2x4's, I've noticed that
96" is actually more like 96.5" or even 97". I was told it's because the
mills expect you to cut it to actual length. My last batch of 8' PT pine
decking was actually various lengths from 96.5" to 97.5", which was nice
because I could get two 48" sections from a single board, something I
couldn't do if the board started out at exactly 96".

>I have some
>that are about 30 years old and they are thicker than the newer ones.
>That would make the stud wall 92 5/8 length slightly different because
>of the bottom and top plates. The plywood for floors have changed
>thickness too. The lumber companies just will not stick to the same
>'standard' sizes.

Plywood changed thickness (got slightly thinner) quite a few years ago,
as well, but I think that was also a one-time change. It doesn't bother
me since it doesn't affect my woodworking projects.

[Dingbat]

> >>> (12,34,56,789) for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and

> >>> fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
> >>> remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.
>

In Indian English, it's

> >>
> >> Only the English makes sense. Divide into thousands, because that's
> >> what we have words for.
> Thousand, million, billion, etc. And what we
> >> use for prefixes, kilo, mega, giga, etc.
>

That number in Indian English is:
12 crore 34 lakh 56 thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.
All words in it are in any compendious English dictionary.

[Peter Moylan]

On 20/03/23 14:58, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:

>>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>>
>> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
>> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.
>
> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".

When I were a lad it was called a "four be two". I don't know what
builders say now that all measurements are metric.

> Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
> to translate this mess to metric.

In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the change
happened long ago.

[rbowman]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:18:16 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:

> In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the change
> happened long ago.

One of the first US industries to convert to metric was the liquor
bottlers. 750 ml is 7 ml less than the common 'fifth'. It doesn't sound
like much but ti's another bottle of booze for sale for every 107.

I'm probably just being cynical but the prime US motivator for anything is
money. A few traffic signs close to the border have kilometers and miles
but replacing every traffic sign in the country would be pricey with no
upside.

Like the beverages some things quietly went metric. The building trades
would mean every manufacturer would have to retool or stick with odd
metric sizes. Again, costly with no obvious way to recover the cost.

[Peeler]

On 22 Mar 2023 14:58:34 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> One of the first US industries to convert to metric was the liquor
> bottlers. 750 ml is 7 ml less than the common 'fifth'. It doesn't sound
> like much but ti's another bottle of booze for sale for every 107.
>
> I'm probably just being cynical

Nope, you are just being the grandiloquent verbose bigmouth that you always
were and always will be!

--
Another one of the resident senile bigmouth's idiotic "cool" lines:
"If you're an ax murderer don't leave souvenir photos on your phone."
"MID: <k7ssc7...@mid.individual.net>"

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:58:39 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:18:16 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the change
> > happened long ago.
>
> One of the first US industries to convert to metric was the liquor
> bottlers. 750 ml is 7 ml less than the common 'fifth'. It doesn't sound
> like much but ti's another bottle of booze for sale for every 107.

Whereas a 2-liter soda bottle contains slightly more than a half-gallon bottle.

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-22 02:18, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/03/23 14:58, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>>>
>>> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
>>> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.
>>
>> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
>> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".
>
> When I were a lad it was called a "four be two". I don't know what
> builders say now that all measurements are metric.

A lot of folks hereabouts say something like "tuba four".

>> Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
>> to translate this mess to metric.
>
> In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the change
> happened long ago.
>

--

Emacs would make a fantastic operating system, if only
only someone would write a decent text editor for it.

[Scott Lurndal]

lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> writes:
>On 2023-03-22 02:18, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 20/03/23 14:58, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>>>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
>>>> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.
>>>
>>> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
>>> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".
>>
>> When I were a lad it was called a "four be two". I don't know what
>> builders say now that all measurements are metric.
>
>A lot of folks hereabouts say something like "tuba four".

Around here, they're just studs.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

"Heyyy!!"

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Peter Moylan]

[alt.home.repair omitted, because it seems to attract trolls]

On 23/03/23 01:58, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:18:16 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the
>> change happened long ago.
>
> One of the first US industries to convert to metric was the liquor
> bottlers. 750 ml is 7 ml less than the common 'fifth'. It doesn't
> sound like much but ti's another bottle of booze for sale for every
> 107.

Wine and spirits here are usually sold in 700 ml bottles, although now
and then you'll find a one-litre bottle. Now that I've looked up some
conversion tables I can't find any good round-number equivalent in
imperial units, so I don't know how that size was settled on. And I
can't remember what the bottle sizes were fifty years ago. Perhaps they
were metric even then.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

Beer in the UK is well down; bottles used to be pints (568ml) now they're
500ml. And cans erm can be 440ml, not 500ml (yes there's 330ml and
imported 384? ones, but they're easily distinguished).

[Sam Plusnet]

<inspects bottle> This lager arrived in a 275ml bottle.
I have no idea what lead to this measure being selected.

--
Sam Plusnet

[J. J. Lodder]

French standard is even smaller, at 250 ml.
Much better, imho, especially for high-alcohol special beers,

Jan
(who also has a gadget for re-closing standard beer bottles)

[Phil Carmody]

nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) writes:
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> On 23-Mar-23 9:51, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> > On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 12:25:20 +1100
>> > Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> [alt.home.repair omitted, because it seems to attract trolls]
>> >>
>> >> On 23/03/23 01:58, rbowman wrote:
>> >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:18:16 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> In your country, perhaps. In most of the rest of the world the
>> >>>> change happened long ago.
>> >>>
>> >>> One of the first US industries to convert to metric was the liquor
>> >>> bottlers. 750 ml is 7 ml less than the common 'fifth'. It doesn't
>> >>> sound like much but ti's another bottle of booze for sale for every
>> >>> 107.
>> >>
>> >> Wine and spirits here are usually sold in 700 ml bottles, although now
>> >> and then you'll find a one-litre bottle. Now that I've looked up some
>> >> conversion tables I can't find any good round-number equivalent in
>> >> imperial units, so I don't know how that size was settled on. And I
>> >> can't remember what the bottle sizes were fifty years ago. Perhaps they
>> >> were metric even then.
>> >
>> > Beer in the UK is well down; bottles used to be pints (568ml) now they're
>> > 500ml. And cans erm can be 440ml, not 500ml (yes there's 330ml and
>> > imported 384? ones, but they're easily distinguished).

500ml was an EU imposition, so there's some chance the britpint will
return to the off sale.

Here in eastern Europe, the macros are quite fond of peddling their
muck in 568ml cans, which they often happily and proudly call "pints".

>> <inspects bottle> This lager arrived in a 275ml bottle.
>> I have no idea what lead to this measure being selected.

Presumably just a rounding down of the old half pint from 0.284 L to a
simple decimal fraction.

> French standard is even smaller, at 250 ml.
> Much better, imho, especially for high-alcohol special beers,

O'Hanlon's Thomas Hardy's Ale (a barley wine) typically came in 250ml
bottles. However, the history of those Thomas Hardy is varied -
sometimes they were nips (third pints), and other times they were 330ml
bottles. Gold Label also came in nips, back in the 80s, IIRC. But that
was crunk.

In that kind of range, looking at my beer reviews, I can see explicit
mentions of 225ml, 250ml, 269ml, 270ml, 275ml, 280ml, 284ml, and 285ml
containers. And dozens of other sizes in other ranges, I've even
surprised myself re-reviewing them just now.

A lot of "craft" beers (I hate that term, but it's the one that's in
use) are pretty strong (over 10%, often over 12%), and the standard size
for those is 330ml. I'll share a bottle with 'er indoors as a late
evening tipple, and the two-thirds portion I get is usually fine.
A decade or so ago, many American craft brewers would release their
>10%, sometimes >14%, brews in 660ml or even 750ml bottles. I'm curious
how the brewers imagined consumption of their carbonated beverage would
be performed. Rambunctiously, one presumes.

[Snidely]

rbowman was thinking very hard :

> On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 12:08:12 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>
>>> A 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>>
>> Well, that's hardly a standard size. But you could get that size if you
>> went to the sort of timber yard that cut to your specification.
>
> What is used in place of the ubiquitous 'two by four', which is really 1
> 1/2 x 3 1/2 ".
>

> https://www.popsci.com/two-by-four-lumber-measurements-explained/
>
> They've never been 2x4 in my life time although when I was a kid they were
> a little larger. I think '64 was when the industry standardized.

AIUI, the "2x4" was the rough cut measurement. For a longtime, lumber
wasn't supplied planed (or was priced extra for planed), but now rough
cut is rare.

> You also need to be wary about the 8 foot part. The majority of what you
> find at Home Depot are 'pre-cut studs' meaning they are 92 5/8". The
> theory is there will be a 2x4 bottom plate and a top plate so the whole
> thing will fix a 4' x 8' sheet of drywall. (which, strangely enough. is
> 4x8).
>

> Like I said it will be a cold day in hell before the building trades try
> to translate this mess to metric.

"2x4" will just be a label, and the finished size will be specified in
mm. Sounds like that may have happened in Ozland already.

/dps

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

[Peter Moylan]

On 26/03/23 08:41, Snidely wrote:
>
> "2x4" will just be a label, and the finished size will be specified
> in mm. Sounds like that may have happened in Ozland already.

It took me a while to remember that this sort of thing is googlable.
Here's one response to the question "What are the standard timber sizes
for construction?"

https://www.pinetimberproducts.com.au/technical-information/

The cross-sections they list are 42x35, 70x35, and so on for a number of
options. For length, they say "Standard timber lengths are 2.4, 3.0,
3.6, 4.2, 4.8, 5.4 & 6.0m.".

By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
responded with

Marshall's Timbers
Lumber store Cardiff NSW

Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW

and so on.

"Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.

When I click on the link for Marshall's Timbers, I get

Marshall's Timbers Cardiff NSW
Did you mean: Marshalls Timbers Cardiff NSW

Apparently Google considers it implausible that a business name could
contain an apostrophe.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Apparently Google considers it implausible that a business name could
> contain an apostrophe.

Apostrophes in business names should be illegal :) I just finished a
utility to vet GIS data submitted by sites that flags data like
'Marshall's Timbers' They have a tendency to cause havoc with database
manipulations. Something like

string stmnt = "select location from business where business_name =
'Marshall's Timbers'"

is going to fail. You need to escape the '. Usually '' works.

[TonyCooper]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/03/23 08:41, Snidely wrote:
>>
>> "2x4" will just be a label, and the finished size will be specified
>> in mm. Sounds like that may have happened in Ozland already.
>
>It took me a while to remember that this sort of thing is googlable.
>Here's one response to the question "What are the standard timber sizes
>for construction?"
>
>https://www.pinetimberproducts.com.au/technical-information/
>
>The cross-sections they list are 42x35, 70x35, and so on for a number of
>options. For length, they say "Standard timber lengths are 2.4, 3.0,
>3.6, 4.2, 4.8, 5.4 & 6.0m.".
>
>By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
>responded with
>
>Marshall's Timbers
>Lumber store Cardiff NSW
>
>Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
>Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW
>
>and so on.
>
>"Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
>Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.

The American term that I know is "lumber yard".

>
>When I click on the link for Marshall's Timbers, I get
>
>Marshall's Timbers Cardiff NSW
>Did you mean: Marshalls Timbers Cardiff NSW
>
>Apparently Google considers it implausible that a business name could
>contain an apostrophe.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Peter Moylan]

On 26/03/23 12:59, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
>> responded with
>>
>> Marshall's Timbers
>> Lumber store Cardiff NSW
>>
>> Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
>> Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW
>>
>> and so on.
>>
>> "Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
>> Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.
>
> The American term that I know is "lumber yard".

The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise the
word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".

We do have a verb "lumber".

[TonyCooper]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:41:50 +1100, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/03/23 12:59, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan
>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
>>> responded with
>>>
>>> Marshall's Timbers
>>> Lumber store Cardiff NSW
>>>
>>> Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
>>> Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW
>>>
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>> "Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
>>> Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.
>>
>> The American term that I know is "lumber yard".
>
>The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise the
>word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>
>We do have a verb "lumber".

In the US, the word "timber" is usually used to mean uncut wood. If I
chop down a tree, I now have timber. If I saw that timber into
planks, I have lumber.

[Peter Moylan]

Some online dictionaries agree with that, but others seem to say that
it's lumber after you cut down the tree, but before you cut it into planks.

[TonyCooper]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:49:35 +1100, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/03/23 15:42, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:41:50 +1100, Peter Moylan
>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise
>>> the word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>>>
>>> We do have a verb "lumber".
>>
>> In the US, the word "timber" is usually used to mean uncut wood. If
>> I chop down a tree, I now have timber. If I saw that timber into
>> planks, I have lumber.
>
>Some online dictionaries agree with that, but others seem to say that
>it's lumber after you cut down the tree, but before you cut it into planks.

Yeah, OK, but an American who is looking for a place to buy a 2 x 4
looks for a "lumber yard", and considers that 2 x 4 a piece of lumber.
Actually, though, "lumber yards" are fast disappearing and have been
replaced by stores like Home Depot and Lowe's that sell lumber as well
as a full range of tools and DIY products.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 26.03.2023 kl. 05.41 skrev Peter Moylan:

> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise the
> word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".

Monty Python can't be completely unknown in Australia.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Peter Moylan]

You don't need to know what a lumberjack is to appreciate the song. As
it happens, though, I do know what he is. He's a timber cutter or tree
feller.

Cue a picture of two men reading the job ads in an Irish employment
office. One of them says,

"That's a real pity, Mick. It says here that they want tree fellers, and
there's only two of us."

[Peeler]

On 26 Mar 2023 01:50:20 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Apostrophes in business names should be illegal :) I just finished a
> utility

Oh, fuck! The senile gossiping starts again...

<FLUSH rest of the inevitable grandiloquent senile crap by the self-admiring
senile shithead unread again>

--
Yet another thrilling account from the resident senile superhero's senile
life:
"I went to a Driveby Truckers concert at a local venue and they made me
leave my knife in the car. Never went back. Come to think of it the Truckers
had a Black Lives Matter banner. Never bought any of their music again
either."
MID: <k84ip9...@mid.individual.net>

[Ken Blake]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:59:32 -0400, TonyCooper
<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan
><pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 26/03/23 08:41, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> "2x4" will just be a label, and the finished size will be specified
>>> in mm. Sounds like that may have happened in Ozland already.
>>
>>It took me a while to remember that this sort of thing is googlable.
>>Here's one response to the question "What are the standard timber sizes
>>for construction?"
>>
>>https://www.pinetimberproducts.com.au/technical-information/
>>
>>The cross-sections they list are 42x35, 70x35, and so on for a number of
>>options. For length, they say "Standard timber lengths are 2.4, 3.0,
>>3.6, 4.2, 4.8, 5.4 & 6.0m.".
>>
>>By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
>>responded with
>>
>>Marshall's Timbers
>>Lumber store Cardiff NSW
>>
>>Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
>>Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW
>>
>>and so on.
>>
>>"Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
>>Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.
>
>The American term that I know is "lumber yard".

I was trying to remember the term I was used to, but I couldn't. That
was it!

I've never heard "lumber store."

[Ken Blake]

Not me. I never have timber or lumber that way.

That's because I never chop down trees or cut logs into planks.

In my youth, I probably chopped down a small tree or two, but I never
cut one into planks.

I also never stir my coffee with my thumb..

[Ken Blake]

Yes.

Out of curiosity, I just went to Amazon.com to see if they also sold
lumber. They do.

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 18:09:54 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 26/03/23 17:38, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 26.03.2023 kl. 05.41 skrev Peter Moylan:
>>
>>> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise
>>> the word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>>
>> Monty Python can't be completely unknown in Australia.
>
>You don't need to know what a lumberjack is to appreciate the song.

Speaking of lumberjacks and songs, I'm curious as to whether you
understood my reference to stirring coffee with my thumb.

[bruce bowser]

> muck ...

Easy, easy, easy ! ! Alcohol making and was perfected even before the bible was written by them. Cut out the north America n name-calling and respect history. Please.

[bruce bowser]

I meant to say "alcohol making and tasting", sorry about that.

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-25 19:59, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 10:27:14 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 26/03/23 08:41, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> "2x4" will just be a label, and the finished size will be specified
>>> in mm. Sounds like that may have happened in Ozland already.
>>
>> It took me a while to remember that this sort of thing is googlable.
>> Here's one response to the question "What are the standard timber sizes
>> for construction?"
>>
>> https://www.pinetimberproducts.com.au/technical-information/
>>
>> The cross-sections they list are 42x35, 70x35, and so on for a number of
>> options. For length, they say "Standard timber lengths are 2.4, 3.0,
>> 3.6, 4.2, 4.8, 5.4 & 6.0m.".
>>
>> By the way, I started my search with "timber supplies near me". Google
>> responded with
>>
>> Marshall's Timbers
>> Lumber store Cardiff NSW
>>
>> Broadmeadow Timber & Building Supplies
>> Lumber store Broadmeadow NSW
>>
>> and so on.
>>
>> "Lumber store"? Who says "lumber store" outside America? But apparently
>> Google has helpfully translated it into American for me.
>
> The American term that I know is "lumber yard".

Though no longer in business, my favourite-named lumber yard is still
"Beaver Lumber". I always thought that should have been used as a name
for a company that sold wooden dildos.

--
If I had nine of my fingers missing I wouldn’t type any slower.
—Mitch Hedberg

[lar3ryca]

On 2023-03-26 10:25, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 18:09:54 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 26/03/23 17:38, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 26.03.2023 kl. 05.41 skrev Peter Moylan:
>>>
>>>> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise
>>>> the word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>>>
>>> Monty Python can't be completely unknown in Australia.
>>
>> You don't need to know what a lumberjack is to appreciate the song.
>
> Speaking of lumberjacks and songs, I'm curious as to whether you
> understood my reference to stirring coffee with my thumb.

I sure did.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXr31zLBxM>

Lyrics: <https://www.bluegrassnet.com/lyrics/the-frozen-logger#.ZCB8Xo7MLys>

One of my favourite folk songs.

>> As
>> it happens, though, I do know what he is. He's a timber cutter or tree
>> feller.
>>
>> Cue a picture of two men reading the job ads in an Irish employment
>> office. One of them says,
>>
>> "That's a real pity, Mick. It says here that they want tree fellers, and
>> there's only two of us."

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:10:42 -0600, lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2023-03-26 10:25, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 18:09:54 +1100, Peter Moylan
>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/03/23 17:38, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 26.03.2023 kl. 05.41 skrev Peter Moylan:
>>>>
>>>>> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise
>>>>> the word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>>>>
>>>> Monty Python can't be completely unknown in Australia.
>>>
>>> You don't need to know what a lumberjack is to appreciate the song.
>>
>> Speaking of lumberjacks and songs, I'm curious as to whether you
>> understood my reference to stirring coffee with my thumb.
>
>I sure did.
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXr31zLBxM>

Good, but actually I was asking Peter, who is in Australia, and might
not.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:41:50 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise the
> word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".

I had a neighbor with a 'lumber room' that most people would refer to as a
junk closet. It isn't in common use but I think 'useless crap' is one
definition of lumber.

Timber here refers to the Ponderosa pine up on the hillside. After you
fell it and send it to a lumber mill it becomes lumber. 'Timberbeast' is
local slang for a logger, who might also be called a 'lumberjack'. No
reason to be consistent.

Glue laminated timber turns dimensional lumber back into timber :)

> We do have a verb "lumber".

Which can become the adjective lumbering or the noun that refers to the
timber industry.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:49:35 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Some online dictionaries agree with that, but others seem to say that
> it's lumber after you cut down the tree, but before you cut it into
> planks.

Or a log...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logging_truck

While I've loaded lumber on a flatbed I've never driven a log truck.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 00:57:08 -0400, TonyCooper wrote:

> Yeah, OK, but an American who is looking for a place to buy a 2 x 4
> looks for a "lumber yard", and considers that 2 x 4 a piece of lumber.
> Actually, though, "lumber yards" are fast disappearing and have been
> replaced by stores like Home Depot and Lowe's that sell lumber as well
> as a full range of tools and DIY products.

https://boycelumber.com/

They've survived both Home Depot and Lowe's coming to town. A couple of
other lumber yards didn't. Most of the lumber mills are gone too.

https://www.huntstimbers.com/

They're old school and if you want a rough cut 2x4 you'll be going to
Hunt's Timbers.

[Peeler]

On 26 Mar 2023 18:41:14 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I had a neighbor with a 'lumber room' that most people would refer to as a
> junk closet. It isn't in common use but I think 'useless crap' is one
> definition of lumber.

So one can say that your big mouth is always full of "lumber"? LMAO

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"My family loaded me into a '51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in '52. I'm alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going."
MID: <j2kuc1...@mid.individual.net>

[rbowman]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:02:34 -0600, lar3ryca wrote:

> Though no longer in business, my favourite-named lumber yard is still
> "Beaver Lumber". I always thought that should have been used as a name
> for a company that sold wooden dildos.

The Beaverhead County high school in Dillon MT could have called their
girls' field hockey team something other than The Beavers.

[Peeler]

On 26 Mar 2023 19:02:16 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> https://boycelumber.com/
>
> They've survived both Home Depot and Lowe's coming to town. A couple of
> other lumber yards didn't. Most of the lumber mills are gone too.

So for how long will you now be going on about lumber, you abnormal
gossiping washerwoman, hayseed, redneck, Trumptard and Putin sympathizer?
LMAO

--
Another one of the resident senile bigmouth's idiotic "cool" lines:
"If you're an ax murderer don't leave souvenir photos on your phone."
"MID: <k7ssc7...@mid.individual.net>"

[Peeler]

On 26 Mar 2023 18:52:11 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> While I've loaded lumber on a flatbed I've never driven a log truck.

I know! Otherwise you'd have told everyone about it already, you
self-admiring bigmouthed hayseed! <G>

--
More of the senile gossip's absolutely idiotic senile blather:
"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn't do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
'We keep God's time in Virginia.'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while."

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On 26 Mar 2023 19:29:49 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> The Beaverhead County high school in Dillon MT could have called their
> girls' field hockey team something other than The Beavers.

NOW you are in your element, gossip girl: gossiping idiotically, endlessly
and senilely!

--
More of the resident senile bigmouth's idiotic "cool" blather:
"For reasons I can't recall I painted a spare bedroom in purple. It may
have had something to do with copious quantities of cheap Scotch."
MID: <k89lch...@mid.individual.net>

[bil...@shaw.ca]

This is as good a time as any to recall the Log Driver's Waltz, an old charmer
from Canada's National Film Board performed by -- wait for it -- the McGarrigle
sisters when they were young.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upsZZ2s3xv8

bill

[bil...@shaw.ca]

An old fave from Canada's National Film Board, performed by Kate and
Anna McGarrigle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upsZZ2s3xv8

bill

[Peter Moylan]

On 27/03/23 03:25, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 18:09:54 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 26/03/23 17:38, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 26.03.2023 kl. 05.41 skrev Peter Moylan:
>>>
>>>> The noun "lumber" simply does not exist in AusE. (We do recognise
>>>> the word, but never use it.) We call it "timber".
>>>
>>> Monty Python can't be completely unknown in Australia.
>>
>> You don't need to know what a lumberjack is to appreciate the song.
>
> Speaking of lumberjacks and songs, I'm curious as to whether you
> understood my reference to stirring coffee with my thumb.

Yes, I vaguely recall a song to that effect. Ah, here it is.

I see that you are a logger, and not just a common bum,
'Cause nobody but a logger stirs his coffee with is thumb.

[Peter Moylan]

On 27/03/23 04:02, lar3ryca wrote:
>
> Though no longer in business, my favourite-named lumber yard is still
> "Beaver Lumber". I always thought that should have been used as a
> name for a company that sold wooden dildos.

There's a company in this area called Koala Glass. I suppose they make
the glass out of the eyes.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:52:17 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not....@all.invalid> wrote:

> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or
>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and".

"Two and three five four"? I wouldn't even begin to expect that to be a decimal, I'd think that meant the sum "2+354". How many boxes you got there? Four and six and seven makes 17.

> Once a teacher told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>
> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
> learned that in about 4th grade.

I don't understand you. A number is already a representation. If I'm holding two apples, I really have them. If I speak the words "two apples", they might not be mine.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 19:10:11 -0000, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:

> In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd

> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or
>

> Of your two choices, it's the first, two point... Of course there is
> two and three hundred fifty four thousandths.

>
>>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the
>>> latter and it's very annoying.
>>

>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me

>> that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>

> Yes, I was told that in grammar school too. For example, one shouldn't
> say a hundred and twenty, but should say a hundred twenty

That is terribly terribly wrong. A hundred twenty sounds like you're multiplying. For example a hundred boxes of twenty objects.

> Of course these days, we'd put a stop to this grooming and
> indoctrination.

>>
>> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
>> learned that in about 4th grade.
>

> I don't think I was told that. Probably too late to remember it now.
> Darn.

Why can't Americans say damn?