Pronouncing decimal numbers

[Commander Kinsey]

How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the latter and it's very annoying.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:04:34 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the subnormal sociopathic trolling attention whore's latest
attention-baiting sick bullshit unread again>

--
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054...@4ax.com>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "Commander Kinsey" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78...@googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.2...@fx10.am4>

[Mark Lloyd]

I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.

* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
learned that in about 4th grade.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the
politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius (99 - 55
B.C.E.)

[Peeler]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd, another absolutely brain
dead, troll-feeding, senile cretin, drivelled:

> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
> that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>
> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
> learned that in about 4th grade.

What you STILL haven't learned is not to feed the troll, you troll-feeding
senile ASSHOLE!

[rbowman]

I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
T.A.M.I Show'. It's not relevant to the question but it was a 1964 music
production with James Brown, The Rolling Stones, and others. Even at the
time, there wasn't agreement what T.A.M.I stood for, maybe 'Teen Age Music
International'.

Anywas there was the acronym T.A.M.I in its full glory. That reminded me
that it used to be F.B.I., C.I.A., U.S.A, and so forth. Somewhere along
the line people apparently found all those periods too much work.

The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
those who insist on using a comma.

[TonyCooper]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd <not....@all.invalid>
wrote:

>On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354?  Is it two point three five four, or
>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four?  My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
>I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
>that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.
>
>* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
>learned that in about 4th grade.

There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
the same way.

I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Peeler]

On 18 Mar 2023 18:24:20 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
> T.A.M.I Show'.

Oh, no! Not yet more thrilling details from the resident bigmouth's and
drama queen's thrilling senile life! LOL

<FLUSH rest of senile crap unread again>

--
More of the pathological senile gossip's sick shit squeezed out of his sick
head:
"Skunk probably tastes like chicken. I've never gotten that comparison,
most famously with Chicken of the Sea. Tuna is a fish and tastes like a
fish. I will admit I've had chicken that tasted like fish. I don't think I
want to know what they were feeding it."
MID: <k44t5l...@mid.individual.net>

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd

<not....@all.invalid> wrote:

>On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354?  Is it two point three five four, or

Of your two choices, it's the first, two point... Of course there is
two and three hundred fifty four thousandths.

>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four?  My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
>I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher told me
>that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the point.

Yes, I was told that in grammar school too. For example, one shouldn't
say a hundred and twenty, but should say a hundred twenty

Of course these days, we'd put a stop to this grooming and
indoctrination.

>
>* - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC, I
>learned that in about 4th grade.

I don't think I was told that. Probably too late to remember it now.
Darn.

[Silvano]

rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:

> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
> those who insist on using a comma.

Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
countries.
The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
European point of view.
OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.

Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
(12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.

[Mack A. Damia]

"Thousandths".

(.345)

One = tenths
Two = hundredths
Three = thousandths.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>
>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>> point.

Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

The example cited by Kinsey is just plain sloppy.

>> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC,
>> I learned that in about 4th grade.
>
> There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
> the same way.
>
> I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
> three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

You meant thousandths, of course. But there is the trap in trying to use
fractional notation in such cases. The correct final word (hundredths,
thousandths, etc.) depends on how many digits there are, and is
therefore easy to get wrong.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>
>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>> point.
>
>Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>I know

"Two and three five four"? Nobody would say that in the US.

>. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

"Two and three five"? Nobody in the US would say that either.

Some people might sometimes say "two and thirty-five" to represent
$2.35, but even there " "two and thirty-five cents" would be more
common.

Probably most common is "two thirty-five."

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 7:34:19 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> > <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> >>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
> >>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
> >>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
> >> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
> >> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
> >> point.
>
> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as

Canada?? I've never heard it. There's disagreement on whether to use
"and" between the hundreds and the tens.

> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
>
> The example cited by Kinsey is just plain sloppy.
>
> >> * - a numeral is a representation of a number, not a number. IIRC,
> >> I learned that in about 4th grade.
> > There is not one way that Americans say it. We don't all say things
> > the same way.
> > I would say "two point three, five, four" or "two and
> > three-hundred-and-fifty four-hundreths.

Oy.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan

<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>
>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>> point.
>
>Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.

And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
maybe inches.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 13:13, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
>>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>
>>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
>>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
>>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
>>>>
>>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
>>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
>>>> point.
>>
>> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
>> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
>> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
>> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
>
> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> maybe inches.

Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
point seven five inches.

Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.

Another situation where "and" works in Australia is with a number like
five hundred and thirty three (Which does not mean 500.33).

[Mack A. Damia]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
> point seven five inches.

Are your carpenter's tapes metric?

> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.

I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric. I got it to lay out
the hole spacing for Irish flutes. The formulae are odd percentages like
73% of the overall length and metric works better. I also have a 6" steel
rule in tenths for some projects.

[Peter Moylan]

On 19/03/23 17:06, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
>> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
>> point seven five inches.
>
> Are your carpenter's tapes metric?

Yes, definitely, although some have dual units. All carpenters' drawings
(building plans, etc.) are in millimetres.

>> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.
>
> I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric. I got it to lay out
> the hole spacing for Irish flutes. The formulae are odd percentages like
> 73% of the overall length and metric works better. I also have a 6" steel
> rule in tenths for some projects.

My steel rule is 30 cm on one side and 12 inches on the other.

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 06:06:28 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I've got a 2m tape but I really don't think in metric.

Tell him also about the big mouth you got, the one that loves so much to
tell everyone ever more details about your grand life and that you love so
much to listen to, senile chatterbox! ;-)

--
Yet more of the so very interesting senile blather by lowbrowwoman:
"My family loaded me into a '51 Chevy and drove from NY to Seattle and
back in '52. I'm alive. The Chevy had a painted steel dashboard with two
little hand prints worn down to the primer because I liked to stand up
and lean on it to see where we were going."
MID: <j2kuc1...@mid.individual.net>

[Ben Verified - ✅]

micky wrote:
> And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> maybe inches.

Fractional integers? New Democrat math?

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 18:24:20 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 17:04:34 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five four, or
>> two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google Home does the
>> latter and it's very annoying.
>
> I'll start the thread drift early. Last night I watched a DVD of 'The
> T.A.M.I Show'. It's not relevant to the question but it was a 1964 music
> production with James Brown, The Rolling Stones, and others. Even at the
> time, there wasn't agreement what T.A.M.I stood for, maybe 'Teen Age Music
> International'.
>
> Anywas there was the acronym T.A.M.I in its full glory. That reminded me
> that it used to be F.B.I., C.I.A., U.S.A, and so forth. Somewhere along
> the line people apparently found all those periods too much work.

There are too many acronyms altogether. At my last place of work, we actually had two acronyms meaning entirely different things. If you type any three letters into acronym finder, you will get 30 results!

> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
> those who insist on using a comma.

It's a fullstop, not a period. A period is when you don't want to fuck your wife.

Yeah Europeans are thick, they think 12,345 is twelve and a third.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:22:25 -0000, Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> rbowman hat am 18.03.2023 um 19:24 geschrieben:
>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>> those who insist on using a comma.
>
>
> Periods and commas in numeric expressions are not in danger in most
> countries.
> The problem is that English speakers use them the wrong way, from our
> European point of view.
> OC you're free to state that we bloody Europeans use them the wrong way.

You are wrong, end of story. It's "4 point 5". So use the point, not the comma. How would you read your version of four and a half "4,5" aloud? Do you say "comma"?

> Interesting are Japanese and Chinese (1,2345,6789 yen/yuan) and Indians
> (12,34,56,789 for one hundred and twenty-three million four hundred and
> fifty-six thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. Also the Swiss, if I
> remember correctly: 123'456,789.00 for the same number.

Only the English makes sense. Divide into thousands, because that's what we have words for. Thousand, million, billion, etc. And what we use for prefixes, kilo, mega, giga, etc.

[Commander Kinsey]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 00:12:08 -0000, Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> rbowman <bow...@montana.com> writes:
>> The period in numeric expressions probably isn't in danger except from
>> those who insist on using a comma.
>

> These conventions are often country-specific.
>
> But programmers are a tight-knit community. C programmers all
> agree on the meaning of the dot in C numerals, no matter what
> country they come from or where they live.
>
> In Germany, the comma is usually used instead, but on price
> tags you can sometimes see the dot used with the same meaning,
> i.e., as a decimal separator.

Are you saying in Germany they can't decide whether to use . or , to seperate whole numbers from decimals?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 11:47:07 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/03/23 13:13, micky wrote:
> > In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:34:11 +1100, Peter Moylan
> > <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 19/03/23 05:43, TonyCooper wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 12:52:17 -0500, Mark Lloyd
> >>> <not....@all.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 3/18/23 12:04, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> >>>>> How do Americans pronounce 2.354? Is it two point three five
> >>>>> four, or two [pause] three hundred and fifty four? My Google
> >>>>> Home does the latter and it's very annoying.
> >>>> I usually say "point". I've heard it with "and". Once a teacher
> >>>> told me that "and" in a numeral* is correct only when replacing the
> >>>> point.
> >> Using "and" instead of "point" happens only in North America, as far as
> >> I know. Even there, I would express the rule more strongly: using "and"
> >> in a numeral is correct only when exactly two digits follow, and
> >> normally it is done only when those two digits represent cents.
> > And if the integer is followed by a fraction. Three and 3/4 inch, or
> > maybe inches.
>
> Yes, that's an example where "and" works in Australia. But we use
> fractions far less than in the US. We'd be more likely to say three
> point seven five inches.

The BBC says "two and a half thousand" where we say "twenty-five
hundred."

> Of course, we'd be even more likely to say 95 mm.
>
> Another situation where "and" works in Australia is with a number like
> five hundred and thirty three (Which does not mean 500.33).

I _think_ we were taught to say "five hundred thirty-three," but I
don't think it took. But it had nothing to do with "and" for "point."

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:23:52 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:

> There are too many acronyms altogether. At my last place of work, we
> actually had two acronyms meaning entirely different things. If you
> type any three letters into acronym finder, you will get 30 results!

Yes, the BBC might want to change its name. A twitter user pointed out ATM
has several meanings, one of which I did not have to know.

[rbowman]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:18:21 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:


> Yes, definitely, although some have dual units. All carpenters' drawings
> (building plans, etc.) are in millimetres.

Are lumber dimensions, windows, prehung doors and so forth also metric? A
51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.

It must have been an interesting transition. An architect friend told me
construction innovations were difficult because ultimately you came up
against standardized dimensions. For example there was a technique of
laying up a brick wall dry and spraying it with an epoxy bonding agent. It
was structurally sound but without the traditional mortar joint nothing
fit. Of course the trade unions weren't enthusiastic either.

[charles]

In article <k7p3vj...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
wrote:

Timber (lumber across the Pond) is stilll thought of in Imperial Units.
your bit is 2x4 although I know it as 4x2.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 18:52:36 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Are lumber dimensions, windows, prehung doors and so forth also metric? A
> 51x102 doesn't roll off the tongue.
>
> It must have been an interesting transition. An architect friend told me

You actually had a friend? You mean, someone who was willing to listen to
your endless grandiloquent blather, you self-admiring senile chatterbox? LOL

--
More of the senile gossip's absolutely idiotic senile blather:
"I stopped for breakfast at a diner in Virginia when the state didn't do
DST. I remarked on the time difference and the crusty old waitress said
'We keep God's time in Virginia.'

I also lived in Ft. Wayne for a while."

MID: <t0tjfa$6r5$1...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On 19 Mar 2023 18:18:27 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> Yes, the BBC might want to change its name. A twitter user pointed out ATM
> has several meanings, one of which I did not have to know.

Feeling better now, after you managed to squeeze yet more shit out of your
senile head, senile bigmouth?

[Mark Lloyd]

When I don't need to be really accurate, I consider a meter to be 39
inches (three and a quarter feet).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car
keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke (1947- )

[Mark Lloyd]

Here's my BBC:

"BBC keyboard assistant, self-installing retail version"

http://notstupid.us/IMG_0766

[Rich Ulrich]

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:46:55 +1100, Peter Moylan

Nowadays, we almost always write the digits, not the words.

Writing out numbers was more popular in the 19th century, and
the custom then seems to have been to use the word "and" after
the count of hundreds. A few months ago, I argued that some
piece of text sounded anacrhonistic for the 19th century /because/
it left out the "and".

A few years ago, I decided to stop writing the "and" on my rent
checks ... but I don't think that the "and" was a life-long habit.
Writing checks is my main occasion for writing out a large number.

--
Rich Ulrich