Plural of 'Owens'
Kiyotaka Hasegawa
's'.
For example here is a family name 'Owens'.
Which of the following is most acceptable?
1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
*I'm sorry if the same question has already been asked in this group.
In that case, please, someone, let me know the result of the discussion.
Kiyotaka Hasegawa
squid...@my-deja.com
"Kiyotaka Hasegawa" <khas...@mva.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
> I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with the
letter
> 's'.
> For example here is a family name 'Owens'.
> Which of the following is most acceptable?
>
> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
> 2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
> 3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
> 4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
Only response (2) is acceptable.
>
> And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
Pronounce it as the two words "Owens is". If you're familiar with ASCII
IPA, it's /'o wn-z Iz/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Perchprism
>From: "Kiyotaka Hasegawa" khas...@mva.biglobe.ne.jp
>Date: 10/19/00 8:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8smpql$mu9$1...@bgsv5905.tk.mesh.ad.jp>
>
>I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with the letter
>'s'.
>For example here is a family name 'Owens'.
>Which of the following is most acceptable?
>
>1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
>2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
>3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
>4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
>
>
>In that case, please, someone, let me know the result of the discussion.
Making plurals and possessives of words ending in "s" is tricky even for native
speakers, and we sometimes get it wrong. Don't you: only 2) is right. You
pronounce both esses as zees.
You will hear 1) spoken, often with a prolongation of the "n" to show the
plural, but this is mere confusion with things like "Jesus'."
You will all too often see 3) written; in fact, you probably see it on people's
houses (The Owens's) much more often than the correct form. This is a matter
that has been much puzzled over here to no avail. The exact reason for that
apostrophe remains elusive, but I think it's an attempt to avoid any alteration
of the spelling of what is the most important piece of information in such a
sign--the family's last name.
I'd say 4) is out of the running entirely.
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented Kiyotaka Hasegawa
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
KH> I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with
KH> the letter 's'. For example here is a family name 'Owens'. Which
KH> of the following is most acceptable?
Always form the plural of proper names by adding "-s" or "-es"
(according to the usual rules). Never change the base spelling.
Thus, Owens -> Owenses, Mills -> Millses ->, Smith -> Smiths,
Jones -> Joneses, Perry -> Perrys (not Perries).
KH> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
No. This doesn't mean the whole Owens family. To Scots this might
mean the senior member of the family.
KH> 2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
Yes.
3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
No. The Owenses' might mean their house or household. "We are
meeting at the Owenses'."
4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
No.
Generally, you should forget the apostrophe as a possibility in
forming plurals. About the only place it is recommended is in
plurals of alphabet letters which would seem to be a word if
the apostrophe were not used: A -> A's (because it might be
read as the word "As"), i -> i's (because it might be read as
the word "is").
KH> And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
When "-es" is added to form the plural, the name is pronounced with
another syllable (-ez). Usually this is not very difficult for
most native speakers, but there are some cases that are problematic:
Menendez -> Menendezes.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"The deepest experience of the creator is feminine, for it is experience
of receiving and bearing." -Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters of Rainer Maria Rilke
Trevor & Rachael
>> Which of the following is most acceptable?
>>
>> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
>
> You will hear 1) spoken, often with a prolongation of the "n" to show the
> plural, but this is mere confusion with things like "Jesus'."
>
Why is Jesus treated differently from Owens? Is it the singular/plural
distinction?
Alex Chernavsky
>Why is Jesus treated differently from Owens?
Because Jesus is entitled to special treatment. See John chapter 12:
1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus
was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of
them that sat at the table with him.
3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed
the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was
filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should
betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the
poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief,
and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she
kept this.
8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Steve MacGregor
"Kiyotaka Hasegawa" <khas...@mva.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
> I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with the
> letter 's'.
> For example here is a family name 'Owens'.
> Which of the following is most acceptable?
>
> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
> 2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
> 3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
> 4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
>
> And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
1) No, this would be the plural of "Owen".
2) Yes.
3) No, never form a plural with an apostrophe-S.
4) No, never form a plural with an apostrophe.
It's pronounced "OH-enz-ez"
--
How many Owenses to a metric buttload?
Robert Lieblich
>
> Jack wrote, in part:
>
> >Owens' motorcycle.
>
> I would have written Owens's.
As Tevye said, you're both right. I prefer Alex's version, but neither
is wrong -- at least as long as we're talking singulars. Which I think
is the case.
daniel mcgrath
>In our last episode, <8smpql$mu9$1...@bgsv5905.tk.mesh.ad.jp>,
>the lovely and talented Kiyotaka Hasegawa
>broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>KH> I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with
>KH> the letter 's'. For example here is a family name 'Owens'. Which
>KH> of the following is most acceptable?
>
>Always form the plural of proper names by adding "-s" or "-es"
>(according to the usual rules). Never change the base spelling.
>Thus, Owens -> Owenses, Mills -> Millses ->, Smith -> Smiths,
>Jones -> Joneses, Perry -> Perrys (not Perries).
What, then, is the plural of "Owense"?
More seriously, how does one distinguish the plurals of "Denis" and
"Denise", or "Louis" and "Louise"? See:
http://www.free-market.net/forums/movies9904/messages/775731463.html
>KH> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
>
>No. This doesn't mean the whole Owens family. To Scots this might
>mean the senior member of the family.
>
>KH> 2) I wrote a letter to the Owenses.
>
>Yes.
>
>3) I wrote a letter to the Owens's.
>
>No. The Owenses' might mean their house or household. "We are
>meeting at the Owenses'."
>
> 4) I wrote a letter to the Owens'.
>
>No.
>
>Generally, you should forget the apostrophe as a possibility in
>forming plurals. About the only place it is recommended is in
>plurals of alphabet letters which would seem to be a word if
>the apostrophe were not used: A -> A's (because it might be
>read as the word "As"), i -> i's (because it might be read as
>the word "is").
>
>KH> And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
>
>When "-es" is added to form the plural, the name is pronounced with
>another syllable (-ez). Usually this is not very difficult for
>most native speakers, but there are some cases that are problematic:
>Menendez -> Menendezes.
>
>--
> Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
> "The deepest experience of the creator is feminine, for it is experience
>of receiving and bearing." -Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters of Rainer Maria Rilke
--------------------------------------------------
daniel g. mcgrath
a subscriber to _word ways: the journal of recreational linguistics_
http://www.wordways.com/
JMccull171
>Why is Jesus treated differently from Owens? Is it the singular/plural
>distinction?
>
He isn't, and you're right, the key point is the single/plural distinction. If
you wanted to refer to more than one person named Jesus you would refer to them
as the Jesuses. Similarly, if you wanted to refer to the hot rod that Jesus
drove to the wedding, you would call it Jesus' hot rod, which you find parked
next to Owens' motorcycle.
Jack
Alex Chernavsky
>Owens' motorcycle.
I would have written Owens's.
--
Alex Chernavsky
al...@astrocyte-design.com
Lars Eighner
the lovely and talented daniel mcgrath
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
dm> On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:58:20 GMT, Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com>
dm> wrote:
>> Always form the plural of proper names by adding "-s" or "-es"
>> (according to the usual rules). Never change the base spelling.
>> Thus, Owens -> Owenses, Mills -> Millses ->, Smith -> Smiths, Jones
>> -> Joneses, Perry -> Perrys (not Perries).
dm> What, then, is the plural of "Owense"?
dm> More seriously, how does one distinguish the plurals of "Denis"
dm> and "Denise", or "Louis" and "Louise"? See:
The same way one knows the difference between "right" and "right"
or "read" and "read."
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"Any activity becomes creative when the doer cares about doing it
right, or doing it better." --John Updike
N.Mitchum
>
> I'd like to know the plural form of a family name which ends with the letter
> 's'.
>
> 1) I wrote a letter to the Owens.
Only number 2 is correct, though you'll sometimes see number 3.
------
> And I also want to know how it is pronounced.
>.....
Three syllables: OH-wen-zuzz (or OH-win-zuzz or OH-wun-zuzz).
------
> I'm sorry if the same question has already been asked in this group.
>.....
Yes, it does get asked from time to time, and just as often it's
asked by native speakers as by non-natives. There is much less
excuse for native speakers' ignorance, since we have a very common
expression that should serve as a model: "keeping up with the
Joneses." As far as I know, everybody is familiar with this
phrase and everybody says it the same way, but many of them forget
this when they have to make a plural of something like "Owens."
----NM
Robert Lieblich
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:33:52 GMT, t...@epenguin.org (Tim Coleman)
> wrote:
>
> > And what about the Joneses' scooters?
>
> Or their apple's for that matter?
The Joneses' apple has scooters?
My favorite example remains Susan Thomases (YCLHU). Her parents are the
Thomaseses.
Robert Lieblich
>
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:37:48 -0400, Robert Lieblich
> <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > The Joneses' apple has scooters?
>
>
> Giles.
Sorry, Gile's. My apologie's'.
Trevor & Rachael
> From: Giles Todd <g...@at-dot.org>
> Organization: None
> Reply-To: g...@at-dot.org
> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:34:16 +0200
> Subject: Re: Plural of 'Owens'
>
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:48:39 -0400, Robert Lieblich
> <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Giles Todd wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:37:48 -0400, Robert Lieblich
>>> <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Joneses' apple has scooters?
>>>
>>> I wa's a's'suming that the Jone'se's were greengrocer's.
>>>
>>> Giles.
>>
>> Sorry, Gile's. My apologie's'.
>
> Damn. I missed that one.
>
> Gile's.
Robert Lieblich
Trevor & Rachael wrote:
>
> Um - thanks. I think I followed all that.
Actually, it appears you preceded all that. I have at least followed
what you posted.
Geoff Butler
>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:48:39 -0400, Robert Lieblich
><lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>> Giles Todd wrote:
>> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:37:48 -0400, Robert Lieblich
>> > <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > The Joneses' apple has scooters?
>> >
>> > I wa's a's'suming that the Jone'se's were greengrocer's.
>> >
>> > Giles.
>>
>> Sorry, Gile's. My apologie's'.
>
>Damn. I missed that one.
>
>Gile's.
A couple of questions of orthography, then:
1) I can accept <a's'suming>, because the <s>s are in different
syllables (or at least in different bits of the etymology). But in
<missed>, where the <s> is doubled for reasons of pronunciation, should
it be <mi's'sed>, <mi'ssed>, or <mi''ssed>? I'd favour <mi'ssed> for the
obvious reasons (<mi's'sed> is horrible), but what are the rules?
2) When a sentence begins with an <S>, should it be spelt with an
apo'strophe, <'Sorry>, or a capital apo'strophe, <"Sorry>?
-ler
Geoff Butler
>In article <WmNlJAAe...@gbutler.demon.co.uk>, Geoff Butler wrote:
>>Giles Todd <g...@at-dot.org> wrote
>>>On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:48:39 -0400, Robert Lieblich
>>><lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>> Giles Todd wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:37:48 -0400, Robert Lieblich
>>>> > <lieb...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > The Joneses' apple has scooters?
>>>> >
>>>> > I wa's a's'suming that the Jone'se's were greengrocer's.
>>>> >
>>>> > Giles.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, Gile's. My apologie's'.
>>>
>>>Damn. I missed that one.
>>>
>>>Gile's.
>>
>>A couple of questions of orthography, then:
>>
>>1) I can accept <a's'suming>, because the <s>s are in different
>>syllables (or at least in different bits of the etymology).
>
>if the first 'a' and the first 's' aren't in the same one.
>>But in
>><missed>, where the <s> is doubled for reasons of pronunciation, should
>>it be <mi's'sed>, <mi'ssed>, or <mi''ssed>? I'd favour <mi'ssed> for the
>>obvious reasons (<mi's'sed> is horrible), but what are the rules?
>
Huh? <'> doesn't mean "There's a <d> coming".
-ler
Geoff Butler
>On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:33:34 +0100, Geoff Butler
><ge...@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> 1) I can accept <a's'suming>, because the <s>s are in different
>> syllables (or at least in different bits of the etymology). But in
>> <missed>, where the <s> is doubled for reasons of pronunciation, should
>> it be <mi's'sed>, <mi'ssed>, or <mi''ssed>? I'd favour <mi'ssed> for the
>> obvious reasons (<mi's'sed> is horrible), but what are the rules?
>
>Coincidentally, thi's practice conform's with modern usage since there
>is no "s" at the end of the word "missed" and there is therefore no
>need to give advance warning that there is an "s" at the end of the
>word in question by use of the apostrophe.
>
>Or 'something.
Ah. I' see.
-ler