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Sentient - pronunciation
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Guy Barry
Mar 14, 2014, 8:33:00 AM3/14/14
to
We had a thread fairly recently about the pronunciation of "ti" and "ci"
before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
Acceptable or not?
(Tony will probably accuse me of listening to the radio in the same way as
Marius reads books, but these things do jump out at me. And one has to get
one's examples from somewhere.)
--
Guy Barry
before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
Acceptable or not?
(Tony will probably accuse me of listening to the radio in the same way as
Marius reads books, but these things do jump out at me. And one has to get
one's examples from somewhere.)
--
Guy Barry
Katy Jennison
Mar 14, 2014, 10:51:39 AM3/14/14
to
On 14/03/2014 12:33, Guy Barry wrote:
> We had a thread fairly recently about the pronunciation of "ti" and "ci"
> before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
> English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
> SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
> Acceptable or not?
I've always pronounced it, and heard it pronounced, as Simon Mayo did,
> We had a thread fairly recently about the pronunciation of "ti" and "ci"
> before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
> English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
> SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
> Acceptable or not?
though what you've transcribed as the second and third syllables usually
get run together. I don't remember ever having heard it your way.
--
Katy Jennison
Guy Barry
Mar 14, 2014, 11:11:31 AM3/14/14
to
"Katy Jennison" wrote in message news:lfv51q$cqs$1...@news.albasani.net...
Oh that's a surprise - my dictionary only gives that pronunciation, like
"patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous word
with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
--
Guy Barry
"patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous word
with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
--
Guy Barry
Leslie Danks
Mar 14, 2014, 11:23:45 AM3/14/14
to
pronunciations:
<http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=sentient&submit=Submit>
What dictionary are you using?
--
Leslie (Les) Danks (BrE, m)
The days are long gone when the equipment for an attempt on Nanga Parbat
comprised stout walking boots, a tweed jacket and a stolen washing line.
Guy Barry
Mar 14, 2014, 11:30:49 AM3/14/14
to
"Leslie Danks" wrote in message news:lfv6u1$rqh$1...@dont-email.me...
Pronouncing Dictionary gives both but puts the "senshunt" version first:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/sentient
--
Guy Barry
>
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> Oh that's a surprise - my dictionary only gives that pronunciation,
>> like
>> "patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous
>> word with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
>>
>My experience agrees with Katy's, but howjsay.com gives both
>pronunciations:
>
><http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=sentient&submit=Submit>
>
>What dictionary are you using?
The Longman New Universal, though it's a bit out of date now. The Macmillan
>Guy Barry wrote:
>> Oh that's a surprise - my dictionary only gives that pronunciation,
>> like
>> "patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous
>> word with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
>>
>My experience agrees with Katy's, but howjsay.com gives both
>pronunciations:
>
><http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=sentient&submit=Submit>
>
>What dictionary are you using?
Pronouncing Dictionary gives both but puts the "senshunt" version first:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/sentient
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Mar 14, 2014, 11:36:13 AM3/14/14
to
"Guy Barry" wrote in message news:x_EUu.25008$aP7....@fx19.am4...
>Oh that's a surprise - my dictionary only gives that pronunciation, like
>"patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous word
>with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
There's "dissentient", of course, either as a noun (someone who dissents) or
as an adjective (dissenting). That's always pronounced like "dissension" +
"t" as far as I know.
--
Guy Barry
>Oh that's a surprise - my dictionary only gives that pronunciation, like
>"patient", "quotient" and so on. I'm trying to think of an analogous word
>with a consonant before the "t", but I can't at the moment.
as an adjective (dissenting). That's always pronounced like "dissension" +
"t" as far as I know.
--
Guy Barry
Derek Turner
Mar 14, 2014, 2:11:40 PM3/14/14
to
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:33:00 +0000, Guy Barry wrote:
> We had a thread fairly recently about the pronunciation of "ti" and "ci"
> before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
> English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
> SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
> Acceptable or not?
The normal BrE pronunciation, IME.
> We had a thread fairly recently about the pronunciation of "ti" and "ci"
> before vowels, so I was a little surprised to hear Simon Mayo (a native
> English speaker) pronounce "sentient" more or less as spelt, i.e.
> SEN-ti-uhnt, rather then SEN-shuhnt as I would normally pronounce it.
> Acceptable or not?
Message has been deleted
Guy Barry
Mar 14, 2014, 2:27:26 PM3/14/14
to
"Derek Turner" wrote in message news:bogv2s...@mid.individual.net...
Which one? Although I can't think of any other words ending "-entient"
(other than "dissentient"), there are plenty with the "-enti" + vowel
combination: "mention", "essential", "penitentiary" and so on. They all
have the "sh" sound. Are there any other words that retain the "t" sound?
--
Guy Barry
(other than "dissentient"), there are plenty with the "-enti" + vowel
combination: "mention", "essential", "penitentiary" and so on. They all
have the "sh" sound. Are there any other words that retain the "t" sound?
--
Guy Barry
Derek Turner
Mar 14, 2014, 3:56:12 PM3/14/14
to
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:27:26 +0000, Guy Barry wrote:
> Which one?
The one we are talking about. The one in the subject line. I make no
claims about any other.
> Which one?
The one we are talking about. The one in the subject line. I make no
claims about any other.
annily
Mar 14, 2014, 9:58:06 PM3/14/14
to
more common in Australia, and it's the way I've always pronounced (and
usually heard) it.
--
Lifelong resident of Adelaide, South Australia
Guy Barry
Mar 15, 2014, 4:42:24 AM3/15/14
to
"Derek Turner" wrote in message news:boh56s...@mid.individual.net...
the first one I mentioned (SEN-ti-uhnt rather than SEN-shuhnt), but I wanted
to make sure.
--
Guy Barry
>
>On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:27:26 +0000, Guy Barry wrote:
[two alternative pronunciations of "sentient"]
>On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:27:26 +0000, Guy Barry wrote:
>> Which one?
>
>The one we are talking about. The one in the subject line. I make no
>claims about any other.
There isn't a pronunciation given in the subject line. I assumed you meant
>
>The one we are talking about. The one in the subject line. I make no
>claims about any other.
the first one I mentioned (SEN-ti-uhnt rather than SEN-shuhnt), but I wanted
to make sure.
--
Guy Barry
Harvey
Mar 15, 2014, 5:22:57 PM3/15/14
to
Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> Wrote in message:
Same here - the 3-syllable version is the only one I'm familiar
with, both in Canada (pre 1982) and in England (since). FWIW,
it's also 3 distinct syllables for me.
(That said, it's definitely on my list of words which I usually
see in print, and seldom hear spoken.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://www.piaohong.tk/newsgroup
with, both in Canada (pre 1982) and in England (since). FWIW,
it's also 3 distinct syllables for me.
(That said, it's definitely on my list of words which I usually
see in print, and seldom hear spoken.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://www.piaohong.tk/newsgroup
Guy Barry
Mar 16, 2014, 3:49:31 AM3/16/14
to
"Harvey" wrote in message news:lg2gbj$q41$1...@news.albasani.net...
>Same here - the 3-syllable version is the only one I'm familiar
> with, both in Canada (pre 1982) and in England (since). FWIW,
> it's also 3 distinct syllables for me.
>
>(That said, it's definitely on my list of words which I usually
> see in print, and seldom hear spoken.)
I suspect this may be the reason for the anomalous pronunciation - it's a
spelling pronunciation. I prefer to assimilate it to the pronunciation of
other similarly spelt words.
Are there other exceptions to the general rule affecting "-tion", "-tial,
"-tiary", "-tious", "-tient", "-tience" and so on?
--
Guy Barry
>Same here - the 3-syllable version is the only one I'm familiar
> with, both in Canada (pre 1982) and in England (since). FWIW,
> it's also 3 distinct syllables for me.
>
>(That said, it's definitely on my list of words which I usually
> see in print, and seldom hear spoken.)
spelling pronunciation. I prefer to assimilate it to the pronunciation of
other similarly spelt words.
Are there other exceptions to the general rule affecting "-tion", "-tial,
"-tiary", "-tious", "-tient", "-tience" and so on?
--
Guy Barry
Robert Bannister
Mar 16, 2014, 6:34:19 PM3/16/14
to
the "t" is part of "pity", but one could argue that the "t" in
"sentient" is part of the "feeling/thinking" component.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Traddict
Mar 16, 2014, 8:47:48 PM3/16/14
to
"Harvey" <use...@whhvs.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : lg2gbj$q41$1...@news.albasani.net...
the highest esteem for British English, gives three possible pronunciations:
1) sen-shuhnt, 2) sen-she-uhnt, and 3) sen-shiuhnt.
Guy Barry
Mar 17, 2014, 3:50:36 AM3/17/14
to
"Robert Bannister" wrote in message
news:bomn7e...@mid.individual.net...
After much thought all I could come up with was "ununpentium", the temporary
name of the as yet unnamed 115th chemical element, but that's named
according to a formula. I suppose the names of other chemical elements in
"-tium" (e.g. "lutetium") are partial exceptions because they have the "i"
as a separate syllable, but they still have the "sh" sound. (The same goes
for the verbal ending "-tiate".)
Why "sentient" should apparently be the only word in common use to retain
the "t" sound before "i" + vowel ending is quite puzzling.
--
Guy Barry
news:bomn7e...@mid.individual.net...
name of the as yet unnamed 115th chemical element, but that's named
according to a formula. I suppose the names of other chemical elements in
"-tium" (e.g. "lutetium") are partial exceptions because they have the "i"
as a separate syllable, but they still have the "sh" sound. (The same goes
for the verbal ending "-tiate".)
Why "sentient" should apparently be the only word in common use to retain
the "t" sound before "i" + vowel ending is quite puzzling.
--
Guy Barry
Peter Moylan
Mar 17, 2014, 7:06:45 AM3/17/14
to
to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
By the way, a better-known example where "t" is pronounced as "t" is
"cation".
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Guy Barry
Mar 17, 2014, 7:19:45 AM3/17/14
to
"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:5326d747$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
"Nasturtium" is always "nasturshum". I can't offhand think of any other
words ending in "-tium" that aren't chemical elements
>By the way, a better-known example where "t" is pronounced as "t" is
>"cation".
I spent a few seconds looking at that wondering what on earth it was. Of
course it's "cat-ion", so the morphology is different.
--
Guy Barry
>When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
words ending in "-tium" that aren't chemical elements
>By the way, a better-known example where "t" is pronounced as "t" is
>"cation".
course it's "cat-ion", so the morphology is different.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Mar 17, 2014, 10:24:02 AM3/17/14
to
"Guy Barry" wrote in message news:kTAVu.16393$eq5....@fx24.am4...
I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um". (Although during the Westland crisis in the
1980s Michael Heseltine always pronounced it as "consorshum", which has
stuck in my memory ever since.) So maybe "-tium" endings are less
susceptible to this process than others.
--
Guy Barry
>
>"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:5326d747$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
>>When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>>to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>>intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
>
>"Nasturtium" is always "nasturshum". I can't offhand think of any other
>words ending in "-tium" that aren't chemical elements.
>"Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:5326d747$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
>>When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>>to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>>intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
>
>"Nasturtium" is always "nasturshum". I can't offhand think of any other
I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um". (Although during the Westland crisis in the
1980s Michael Heseltine always pronounced it as "consorshum", which has
stuck in my memory ever since.) So maybe "-tium" endings are less
susceptible to this process than others.
--
Guy Barry
Message has been deleted
Guy Barry
Mar 17, 2014, 11:19:20 AM3/17/14
to
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnlie29p....@amelia.local...
>
>In message <5ADVu.27153$gc7....@fx03.am4>
Really? Well there you are - perhaps it's just a British thing. Macmillan
gives only the pronunciation with "t" and four syllables for BrE:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/consortium
For AmE the IPA gives the pronunciation with "sh" and three syllables, but
the audio has "t" and four syllables:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/consortium
Someone really needs to make sure they correspond.
--
Guy Barry
>
>In message <5ADVu.27153$gc7....@fx03.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
>> pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um".
>
>con-SOR-sheeum
>> I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
>> pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um".
>
Really? Well there you are - perhaps it's just a British thing. Macmillan
gives only the pronunciation with "t" and four syllables for BrE:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/consortium
For AmE the IPA gives the pronunciation with "sh" and three syllables, but
the audio has "t" and four syllables:
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/consortium
Someone really needs to make sure they correspond.
--
Guy Barry
pensive hamster
Mar 17, 2014, 3:42:16 PM3/17/14
to
On Monday, 17 March 2014 00:47:48 UTC, Traddict wrote:
> The Daniel Jones Everyman's English Pronuncing Dictionary, which I hold in
> the highest esteem for British English, gives three possible pronunciations:
> 1) sen-shuhnt, 2) sen-she-uhnt, and 3) sen-shiuhnt.
Having said sentient out loud several times, I (BrE) seem to pronounce
> The Daniel Jones Everyman's English Pronuncing Dictionary, which I hold in
> the highest esteem for British English, gives three possible pronunciations:
> 1) sen-shuhnt, 2) sen-she-uhnt, and 3) sen-shiuhnt.
it as sen-tchi-uhnt.
The t is slurred into the chi (or chee), so it is hardly noticeable. There
is slightly more t than there is in sensual (actually there is no t at all in
sensual), but much less than there is in sentinel.
Robert Bannister
Mar 17, 2014, 7:01:18 PM3/17/14
to
On 17/03/2014 10:39 pm, Lewis wrote:
> In message <5ADVu.27153$gc7....@fx03.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5ADVu.27153$gc7....@fx03.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Guy Barry" wrote in message news:kTAVu.16393$eq5....@fx24.am4...
>>>
>>> "Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:5326d747$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>
>>>> When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>>>> to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>>>> intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
>>>
>>> "Nasturtium" is always "nasturshum". I can't offhand think of any other
>>> words ending in "-tium" that aren't chemical elements.
>
>> I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
>> pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um".
>
> con-SOR-sheeum
>>>
>>> "Peter Moylan" wrote in message news:5326d747$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>>
>>>> When Intel released the Pentium processor, it apparently never occurred
>>>> to anyone pronounce it "penshum". That suggests to me that our language
>>>> intuition doesn't put -tiu in the same category as -tio.
>>>
>>> "Nasturtium" is always "nasturshum". I can't offhand think of any other
>>> words ending in "-tium" that aren't chemical elements.
>
>> I have one at last - "consortium", and as far as I know it's uniformly
>> pronounced "con-SOR-ti-um".
>
>
>> (Although during the Westland crisis in the
>> 1980s Michael Heseltine always pronounced it as "consorshum", which has
>> stuck in my memory ever since.) So maybe "-tium" endings are less
>> susceptible to this process than others.
>
> There's definitely a little bit of an 'ee' in my pronunciation, but I
>> (Although during the Westland crisis in the
>> 1980s Michael Heseltine always pronounced it as "consorshum", which has
>> stuck in my memory ever since.) So maybe "-tium" endings are less
>> susceptible to this process than others.
>
> will concede that sometimes it may be so little as to be imperceptible
> to the listener.
>
>
Maybe, but I've never heard it with sh.
Traddict
Mar 17, 2014, 8:46:54 PM3/17/14
to
"pensive hamster" <pensive...@hotmail.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de
groupe de discussion :
e356496b-bbbe-458f...@googlegroups.com...
thing is the Pronouncing Dictionary doesn't even mention a pronunciation of
"sen-ti-uhnt" or "sen-tiuhnt", whereas these are apparently widespread.
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