Abbreviations for with and without
Mary_C....@transarc.com
ro...@severian.chi.il.us (Robin Carkhuff) sez:
> I work in a psychiatric facility and consequently do a great deal of
> charting on patients. There are numerous abbreviations and shorthand
> notations, but two of the most common are S and C with lines over
> them, meaning without and with, respectively. I wonder... do they
> stand for sans and con, or sin and con?
I've never seen the s-bar, but c-bar dates back to the age of
manuscripts. It stands for "with" in Latin: cum. When books were
all handwritten, scribes used a complex systems of abbreviations for
common letter sequences, a useful practice in a highly inflected
language like Latin. If you look at manuscripts, you'll see many words
that end with -um abbreviated by dropping the ending and writing a
bar over the last letter.
I would suspect that s-bar is used for "sine" (without), but I've
never seen it. (Of course, that doesn't mean anything; it may be
"authentic" or it may be a convenient parallel construct. I've caught
myself writing c-bar/o, like w/o.)
> Why must the medical profession use these, when w/ and w/o would be
> clearer to people?
I guess you could ask this question about any kind of special-purpose
language. In this case, I'd say these abbreviations are traditional,
just like the lingo of typsetting (points, leading, etc.) is becoming to
the computer community. Most people don't know the original meaning
of the terms, but they get carried along with the technology. I
suppose w/ and w/o are clearer to the general public, but so what?
If the intended audience understands c-bar, fine. Trying to root out
something like this is probably futile anyway.
-- Kate
Dr Peter Kittel Germany
>
>> Why must the medical profession use these, when w/ and w/o would be
>> clearer to people?
>
This is an issue that also bugs me since I read the net. Here I first
saw this use of the slash character to abbreviate a word. This is news
to me. I have learnt in (german) school that you use in English a period
for abbreviation, just like in German. So it would have to be "w." and
"w.o." or some such.
Where does that slash come from? Is it considered a correct term or is
it (net) slang?
--
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ pet...@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com
Alan J Rosenthal
>This is an issue that also bugs me since I read the net. Here I first
>saw this use of the slash character to abbreviate a word. This is news
>to me. I have learnt in (german) school that you use in English a period
>for abbreviation, just like in German. So it would have to be "w." and
>"w.o." or some such.
>
>Where does that slash come from? Is it considered a correct term or is
>it (net) slang?
I agree that the slash in this usage is very bizarre, but it is standard, and
well used outside of usenet. Generally speaking you are correct, but I don't
think that many English speakers would recognize "w." for "with", whereas
pretty much any English speaker who had been to university would recognize "w/"
for "with". "w.o." is a little easier, but the usual punctuation is still,
illogically, "w/o".
Another example of such usage of slashes is "b/w", standing for "backed with",
used in the 50s through the 70s on records to indicate what was on the other
side of a record containing one song on each side. Actually I think "b/w" has
resurfaced among television manufacturers for "black and white".
Alan "hello/world" Rosenthal
Ron Newman
"in care of". This is usually used in postal addresses when
one person is handling the mail of another, such as
Jim Johnson
c/o Mary Smith
1111 Some Street
Some City, Some State 99999
--
Ron Newman rne...@bbn.com
Chris Cannam
fl...@dgp.toronto.edu (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
: pet...@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
:
: > Where does that slash come from? Is it considered a correct term
: > or is it (net) slang?
: [...] it is standard, and well used outside of usenet. [...] pretty
: much any English speaker who had been to university would recognize
: "w/" for "with".
Surely it's only American usage, though? I don't think I'd ever come
across its being generally used until a friend lent me Jim Morrison's
book of poemy things. (And yes, I am an English speaker who's been to
university, but I don't go in much for abbreviations.)
: Another example of such usage of slashes is "b/w", standing for
: "backed with" [...]
You know, call me stupid and all that but I'd never actually realised
what it was that b/w was supposed to stand for. (Seriously.) Ta.
Chris
Phil Anderson
> Another common abbreviation that uses a slash is "c/o", meaning
> "in care of".
Also written, in some places at least, as c/-
----------------------------------------------
Phil Anderson *** ha...@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
----------------------------------------------
"No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Alan J Rosenthal
>Surely it's only American usage, though?
Well, it's in quite wide-spread use around here...
>(And yes, I am an English speaker who's been to
>university, but I don't go in much for abbreviations.)
To an English-language university?
Would other non-Americans like to comment on the demographics of the use of
"w/" as a note-taking abbreviation for "with"?
Chris Cannam
:
: >Surely it's only American usage, though?
:
: Well, it's in quite wide-spread use around here...
Sorry, just doing my usual habit of seeing ".edu" and thinking "USA".
I do apologize. I'm not wishing to get into another "Canada's not in
America! -- Yes it is! -- No it isn't!" thing.
: > (And yes, I am an English speaker who's been to
: > university, but I don't go in much for abbreviations.)
:
: To an English-language university?
Uh huh. Strictly speaking I'm still there.
Pierre Jelenc
I discovered w/ rather early in my English studies (I did learn most from
Rock 'n Roll...) and started using both w/ and w/o in French when I was
still living in France. I also use the ampersand, which although it exists
in French, is hardly used except in company names, and the "number sign"
to mean "number" rather than its usual French meaning of "approximately".
Did someone say cultural imperialism? Blame it on Elvis.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
rc...@panix.com
Dr Peter Kittel Germany
>
>Another example of such usage of slashes is "b/w", standing for "backed with",
Never saw this, must take a look on old, *american* records. Do I have
one, hmm?
>Actually I think "b/w" has
>resurfaced among television manufacturers for "black and white".
Hah, but that's quite a different story: Here the slash works to indicate
an alternative, black or white (ok, on TV it's both). And for alternatives,
a slash is always appropriate. I don't consider this example as an
abbreviation.
Alan J Rosenthal
>>resurfaced among television manufacturers for "black and white".
>
>Hah, but that's quite a different story: Here the slash works to indicate
>an alternative, black or white (ok, on TV it's both). And for alternatives,
>a slash is always appropriate. I don't consider this example as an
>abbreviation.
The "b" is certainly an abbreviation of "black", as is the "w" of "white".
The slash is necessary; people would not recognize "b.w." as black and white.
If it were "black OR white", I would agree with you, but it's not.
William R. Ward
) In article <gfzD6VT0B...@transarc.com> Mary_C....@transarc.com writes:
)>> Why must the medical profession use these, when w/ and w/o would be
)>> clearer to people?
)>
)>I suppose w/ and w/o are clearer to the general public, but so what?
)
) This is an issue that also bugs me since I read the net. Here I first
) saw this use of the slash character to abbreviate a word. This is news
) to me. I have learnt in (german) school that you use in English a period
) for abbreviation, just like in German. So it would have to be "w." and
) "w.o." or some such.
)
) Where does that slash come from? Is it considered a correct term or is
) it (net) slang?
It's not just net.slang, as others have pointed out. ("net.slang" is,
however.... ;-) )
I believe it originated as part of shorthand, the alternative writing
system used by people who transcribe courtroom proceedings, important
meetings, etc. Nowadays it's been taken over by special
typewriter-like note-taking machines.
I think the correct version is more like:
| |\_// | |\_//
\ | / / \ | / /
\^/ / \^/ /
/ /
/ and /
/ / __
/ / / \
/ / | |
/ / \__/
(pardon the crude ASCII graphics. The point being that it is like the
percent (%) symbol, with the "w" in place of the top "o" of the "%"
symbol, and either nothing or the "o" where the bottom "o" of "%"
goes. Further, since this is a handwritten notation, the "w" is
connected to the slash, the same way many people connect the "o" of
the "%" sign to the slash of that sign.)
Another question: where does the percent sign come from? I know that
'per cent' is from Latin, with 'cent' meaning 100...
--Bill.
--
William R Ward __o Bay View Software
VoiceMail: +1 (408) 479-4072 _ \<,_ Internet: her...@cats.ucsc.edu
SnailMail: 1803 Mission St. #339 (_)/ (_) BITNet: her...@cats.bitnet
Santa Cruz CA 95060 USA
Ron Newman
|> The "b" is certainly an abbreviation of "black", as is the "w" of "white".
|> The slash is necessary; people would not recognize "b.w." as black and white.
|> If it were "black OR white", I would agree with you, but it's not.
Usually I see "black-and-white" abbreviated "b&w", rather than "b/w" or "b.w."
--
Ron Newman rne...@bbn.com
Peter Moylan
>
> Would other non-Americans like to comment on the demographics of the use of
> "w/" as a note-taking abbreviation for "with"?
I think my usage is typical for Australia. I didn't understand w/
until it was explained to me, but I do understand and use the following:
c/o or c/- (care of)
b/w (black and white)
w/o (without)
u/s or U.S. (unserviceable)
r/s (ratshit)
u/g, p/g (undergraduate, postgraduate)
There are probably lots more, but these are the ones which immediately
spring to mind.
--
Peter Moylan ee...@cc.newcastle.edu.au OR pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
Robert Swan
>I think my usage is typical for Australia. I didn't understand w/
>until it was explained to me, but I do understand and use the following:
> c/o or c/- (care of)
> b/w (black and white)
> w/o (without)
> u/s or U.S. (unserviceable)
> r/s (ratshit)
> u/g, p/g (undergraduate, postgraduate)
>There are probably lots more, but these are the ones which immediately
>spring to mind.
in Australia. In U.S. (not unservicable) correspondence, I
have encountered w/ and w/o, and got to understand (but not like) them.
I think this question can't be classified by country. People in
universities may see u/g and p/g. I frequent less exalted realms.
Any negativity in the above opinion has nothing whatsoever to do
with my initials.
>--
>Peter Moylan ee...@cc.newcastle.edu.au OR pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
Have fun,
Robert.
--
I used to be indecisive, | Robert Swan, rob...@g2syd.genasys.com.au
but now I'm not so sure. | Genasys II Pty. Ltd., North Sydney.
Peter Westlake
[cut]
:
: Would other non-Americans like to comment on the demographics of the use of
: "w/" as a note-taking abbreviation for "with"?
Certainly I had never seen it used until an American visited us.
"w/o" seems more intuitive; perhaps it is used here a little?
Peter.
--
Peter M Westlake EO Europe Ltd.,
Tel: +44 223-843131 Abberley House, Granhams Road,
Fax: +44 223-843032 Great Shelford,
email: pwes...@eoe.co.uk Cambridge CB2 5LQ, England
John O'Bell
with", but then maybe that's just because my high school geometry teacher
used "b/w" as an abbreviation for the "betweenness theorem".