Starboard Side and Port Side
Bun Mui
Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
Where did the term "Starboard Side", originate from?
Does it have to do anything with stars? Celestial Navigation, maybe?
I heard that the term, the "Port Side" originated when British ships
were docked ashore. The British people would always bring their
"Port Wine" to load in, on the left hand side of the ship.
Hence the term "Port Side". Is this true?
Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
want to sound more sophisticated?
Bun Mui
Please remove "x" at the front and end of "BunMui" to e-mail me.
Over & Out (-5 GMT)
John Nurick
On 19 Aug 1997 13:33:41 GMT, Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net> wrote:
>Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
>Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
>Where did the term "Starboard Side", originate from?
>Does it have to do anything with stars? Celestial Navigation, maybe?
>I heard that the term, the "Port Side" originated when British ships
>were docked ashore. The British people would always bring their
>"Port Wine" to load in, on the left hand side of the ship.
>Hence the term "Port Side". Is this true?
Absolutely spot on. I couldn't have put it better myself.
Possibly you should have explained the celestial navigation bit. As
you know, in sailing ships the sails obstruct the view of the stars,
so they stuck a long plank or board out from the side of the ship so
the navigator could go out to the end of it (hence the phrase "walk
the plank") to get a clear view. The board or plank was of course
called the "star board". If the star board had been fitted on the port
(left) side of the ship it would have got in the way of loading the
wine, so it was always put on the right side, which in due course
became known as the "starboard side".
>Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
>want to sound more sophisticated?
No; it's like legal and medical terminology. We just don't want the
passengers to understand what we're saying about them.
John
I dislocated my e-mail address, and the doctor says it will be
six months before I can see a specialist.
Brian J Goggin
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:26:02 GMT, j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John
Nurick) wrote:
[...]
>Possibly you should have explained the celestial navigation bit. As
>you know, in sailing ships the sails obstruct the view of the stars,
>so they stuck a long plank or board out from the side of the ship so
>the navigator could go out to the end of it (hence the phrase "walk
>the plank") to get a clear view. The board or plank was of course
>called the "star board". If the star board had been fitted on the port
>(left) side of the ship it would have got in the way of loading the
>wine, so it was always put on the right side, which in due course
>became known as the "starboard side".
You might have mentioned the link with Cornwall. Bun Mui may not know
that many British ships employed Cornish navigators (which is why
corned beef was such a popular seafaring dish). It was traditional to
cook a *star-gazy* pie for the navigator at the end of each voyage.
This dish later made it ashore and is still cooked in Cornwall to this
day.
You should also have mentioned what happened in the daytime, when the
navigator would, by and large, look at the sun. However, it had to be
*over the yardarm* before he could do that: another phrase that is
still used today.
>>Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>>Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
>>want to sound more sophisticated?
>
>No; it's like legal and medical terminology. We just don't want the
>passengers to understand what we're saying about them.
>
I understand that some sailors from other English-speaking nations now
say *starboard* and *port*. Others refer to *green* and *red*, as in
the well-known Shakespearean phrase
"The multitudinous seas incarnadine,
Making the green one red."
Irish sailors, however, use neither set of terms. Instead, they say
*Ying* and *Tang*. Those words feature in a famous old Irish sea
shanty. Incidentally, *shanty* derives from the Irish *sean ti'*, an
old house, because so many Irish songs are about the singer's former
home, usually an old cottage.
I think Bun Mui would find the works of Michael Green useful in
explaining much nautical terminology.
bjg
John Nurick
On 20 Aug 1997 18:29:28 GMT, "Gregory Monsoux"
<gry...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>On this subject (just), I understand that "posh" derives from "Port Out,
>Starboard Home", i.e. when travelling from England out to India and the Far
>East, the port side of the boat was in the shade, and vice versa on the
>return journey. Therefore, "posh" passengers had the most comfortable
>accommodation on the boat.
This is a common misconception. Bun Mui, who knows his desert wine, is
probably going to correct it too. "Posh" is actually a corruption of
"P.O.C.H", which stood for "Port out, Constantia home" because it was
hard to buy decent port in India and the old Constantia wine from the
Cape of Good Hope travelled better. (Some people say it was "Port out,
sober home", but they're wrong.)
Robert Lieblich
> Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting <will...@ahecas.ahec.edu>
> wrote in article <1997Aug20.075211.1@ahecas>...
> > In article <5tc7bl$m1e$1...@postern.mbnet.mb.ca>, Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net>
>
> > writes:
> > > Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
> > >
> > > Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
> >
> >
> > > Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
> >
> of
> > sailors, some of whom were facing one way and some another.
> >
> > Gary Williams
Famous old joke about ship's captain who keeps small card in shirt
pocket, consulting it regularly, never letting on what it is. One day
by mistake he sends shirt to laundry with card in pocket. Laundry
worker summons first mate, who reads card: "Port left, starboard right."
I said famous, not funny.
In the US Navy, and elsewhere I suspect, orders to the helm are given
with "right" and "left," as in "right standard rudder" or "left full
rudder." Easier to understand when things are tense or quick response
is needed.
Bob LIeblich <lieb...@erols.com>
Douglas P. McNutt
Why not just use right and left?
A fellow who was working for me was driving. We were crossing the taxiway
headed for my airplane which was tied down facing us on the other side.
I said" We'll load the equipment on the starbord side".
He said "that's right isn't it? WHy do you insist on those dumb terms?"
He then turned right and pulled up on the wrong side of the aircraft.
Another.
Wnen on your back with your head resting on the rudder pedals trying to make
an electrical connection to a radio in the instrument panel which is left
and which is back? Port and aft remain clear.
-> From the USA. The only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <-
Peter Schultz
Is your left hand's reflection on your image in the mirror the
image's left hand, or the image's right hand? My opinion is that
it's the image's right hand on its port side.
Eric v/d Meer
> Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
>
> Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
>
>
> Where did the term "Starboard Side", originate from?
> Does it have to do anything with stars? Celestial Navigation, maybe?
>
> I heard that the term, the "Port Side" originated when British ships
> were docked ashore. The British people would always bring their
> "Port Wine" to load in, on the left hand side of the ship.
> Hence the term "Port Side". Is this true?
>
> Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
> Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
> want to sound more sophisticated?
>
It's not just the British sailors! Americans and Canadians use thet same
words. And in other languages, related words are used. For instance,
starboard in a few other languages is:
Dutch: stuurboord, German: Steuerbord, Swedish: styrbord, French: tribord.
>
> Bun Mui
> Please remove "x" at the front and end of "BunMui" to e-mail me.
> Over & Out (-5 GMT)
Eric van der Meer
norman taylor
will...@ahecas.ahec.edu (Gary
Williams, Business Services Accounting)
wrote:
>In article <5tc7bl$m1e$1...@postern.mbnet.mb.ca>, Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net>
>writes:
>> Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
>>
>> Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
>
>Only when facing the bow. Port is on the right when facing the stern.
>
>> Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>
>Don't know for sure--but suppose you wanted to give a command to a bunch of
>sailors, some of whom were facing one way and some another.
>
>Gary Williams
POSH stems from Port Out-Straboard Home.
In the days when troopships went out to
India and beyond.
haye...@alpha.unisa.ac.za
In article <5tc7bl$m1e$1...@postern.mbnet.mb.ca> Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net> writes:
>From: Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net>
>Subject: Starboard Side and Port Side
>Date: 19 Aug 1997 13:33:41 GMT
>Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
>want to sound more sophisticated?
Because the left side and right side can be different, depending on whether
you are facing the bow or the stern.
Henrik Soderstrom
j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick) wrote:
>On 19 Aug 1997 13:33:41 GMT, Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net> wrote:
<snipped: INTERESTING text on the origins of starboard and port.>
>>Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>>Wouldn't it be more easier. Or is it that the British sailors just
>>want to sound more sophisticated?
>
>No; it's like legal and medical terminology. We just don't want the
>passengers to understand what we're saying about them.
Actually I can see a justification for having these specialised
terms to express an invariable 'left' and 'right' *in relation
to the ship*.
Your "personal" left and right hand side would obviously vary,
as you move about the ship, and depend on which direction you
happen to be facing at the moment.
Cheers /Henrik
Brian J Goggin
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:44:08 -0700, njk...@no-spam.mindspring.com
(Mimi Kahn) wrote:
[...]
>We could have used a little port about then -- maybe even a little
>Scotch.
You should have tried mixing them. The result is a cocktail called a
"Storm".
It doesn't matter what sort of port you use.
bjg
Bernie Rataj
In article <hayesstw.23...@alpha.unisa.ac.za>, haye...@alpha.unisa.ac.za wrote:
>[...] in old-fashioned ships
>there was not a central rudder, but a kind of oar, or "steering board" put
>over the stern at one side - the "steering board" side.
I do believe the board part refers to the side (i.e. the hull) of the ship
rather than the steering oar itself...
It is interesting how many other means of transport are boarded in emulation
of ships.
Bernie
--
Bernie Rataj br...@interlog.com qth://toronto.on.ca
Member: Ontario DX Association, Tsuruoka Canadian Budokai
--
Brian J Goggin
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 05:56:39 GMT, lee.l...@guildnet.org (Lee Lester)
wrote:
>AA> But does anybody know when the colors red/green were standardized
>AA> for port/starbord, and why those two were chosen?
The *Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea* is silent. The
*Encyclopaedia Britannica* says
"The practice of enforced observance of local regulations continues,
but since the late 19th century a series of
agreements among maritime states has brought near-uniformity to
regulations governing ship operation and aspects
of ship design and equippage that bear on safety. Nearly all the
world's maritime states, for example, have
adopted the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at
Sea (known as COLREGS). These were
originally based on British rules formulated in 1862 and made
internationally effective after a series of international
meetings culminating in a conference at Washington, D.C., in 1889. The
rules specify in great detail how ships must
navigate in respect of each other, what lights must be shown, and what
signals must be given in accordance with
circumstances."
While this does not fully answer your question, it may help to direct
further research.
>In fact, there are two standards, one for the Americas, where the rule
>of red right returning puts red buoys on one's right on going upriver
>or in a channel while the rest of the world has exactly the opposite
>rule.
Er .... The navigation lights question is difficult enough, without
adding the complication of navigation buoys etc.
>Doesn't bother me any more. I sold my boat yesterday!
>
Sorry to hear it.
bjg
earle jones
In article <33fb4dd...@207.126.101.85>, tay...@htan.org (norman
taylor) wrote:
>will...@ahecas.ahec.edu (Gary
>Williams, Business Services Accounting)
>wrote:
>
[..clippy..]
>>> Why don't sailors just say right or left hand side?
>>
"Better not let the Captain hear you call that deck a floor --
or he'll throw you out of one of those little round windows."
earle
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
Cynthia S Donnell
The port/starboard boarding and the formality of the boarding
only applied if the ship was at anchor. If the ship was tied up at a
dock or pier the captain would board from the dock side - which could
be port or starboard. Wherever the captain boarded the ship, that
point was called the quarter deck. The quarter deck was the seat of
power so most anywhere the captain was was known as the quarter deck.
Cindy Donnell
v...@tragedy.org (Festus van Landingham) writes:
>On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 18:03:44 +0100, in alt.usage.english, Eric v/d Meer
>wrote:
>>In article <5tc7bl$m1e$1...@postern.mbnet.mb.ca>, Bun Mui <xBun...@usa.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Starboard Side means the right hand side of the ship or boat.
>>>
>>> Port Side means the left hand side of the ship or boat.
>[snip]
>>It's not just the British sailors! Americans and Canadians use thet same
>>words. And in other languages, related words are used. For instance,
>>starboard in a few other languages is:
>>Dutch: stuurboord, German: Steuerbord, Swedish: styrbord, French: tribord.
>At the risk of encouraging Bun Mui, I present this: In the works of
>Patrick O'Brian, a conscientious man, the terms are always "starboard"
>and "larboard." "Port" is nowhere to be seen as the side of a ship, so
>it must have arisen after 1815 (at least within the Royal Navy).
>In the Aubrey/Maturin series (the O'Brian works), the Captain or
>Post-Captain would board the ship on the starboard side if he was
>looking for a formal welcoming, the larboard side if he wished to be
>(basically) ignored in his boarding. As a confirmed lubber, I may have
>the sides mixed up.
>A companion work to the 18-volume Aubrey/Maturin series is "A Sea of
>Words: A Lexicon and Companion for Patrick O'Brian's Seafaring Tales,"
>by Dean King, with John Hattendorf and J. Worth Estes, which offers the
>following descriptions:
>"Starboard: The right-hand side of a vessel when facing the bow (as
>opposed to the larboard, or port, side). The starboard side of a ship
>was traditionally reserved for the Captain, who took his exercise on the
>starboard side of the poop deck or quarterdeck. The word 'starboard'
>derives from 'steer board,' in early ships a paddle used for steering
>that was located on this side."
>Note: the Captain's domain, at sea, was also always the windward (the
>direction from which the wind blew) side of the quarterdeck. Those of
>lower rank held to the leeward side of the ship while the Captain was on
>deck.
>"Larboard *or* larbowlin: The lefthand, or port, side of a ship when
>looking toward the bow, as opposed to starboard. The term was later
>replaced by 'port' to avoid confusion with 'starboard.'"
>--
>Festus v.L.
>Do you want to see what bounced e-mail looks like? If so, then send me e-mail.
Phill KD
--
Phi...@ANTISPAMbtinternet.com
Remove ANTISPAM to reply.
Brian J Goggin <b...@wordwrights.ie> wrote in article
<3403ec1d...@news.indigo.ie>...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 06:39:33 GMT, haye...@alpha.unisa.ac.za wrote:
>
> >In article <EFDpx...@info.uucp> aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca (alan auerbach
F) writes:
> >>From: aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca (alan auerbach F)
> >>Subject: Re: Starboard Side and Port Side
> >
> >>Right. But does anybody know when the colors red/green were
> >>standardized for port/starbord, and why those two were chosen?
> >
> >Dunno about the origins, but it's a useful mnemonic - port wine is red.
>
> Well, not green. There is white port and there is tawny port.
>
> bjg
>
> In England we call them Ruby and Tawny (not better, just different).
Incidentally, Red and Green also denote left and right on Stereo Music
Level Meters (PPM's).
'RED PORT LEFT in a bottle' is my mnemonic, and a situation to be avoided
as well !
Phill
Brian J Goggin
On 28 Aug 1997 20:57:22 GMT, "Phill KD"
<Phi...@ANTISPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Well, not green. There is white port and there is tawny port.
>>
>> bjg
>>
>> In England we call them Ruby and Tawny (not better, just different).
What do you call white port?
bjg
Mike Page
in. Surely Tawny is better than Ruby, which is generally a vile young
blend. Whereas Tawny is aged and a good Tawny can cost as much as
Vintage.
--
Mike Page
Remove the amphibian from my e-mail address to reply.
Douglas P. McNutt
In Article <34072b17....@news.dial.pipex.com>,
j.nu...@ialday.ipexpay.omcay (John Nurick) wrote:
>On 28 Aug 1997 20:57:22 GMT, "Phill KD"
><Phi...@ANTISPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Level Meters (PPM's).
>
And does the red refer to the left as seen from the speakers facing the
audience or vice versa?
A fine reason for port and starbord methinks.
John Nurick
On Mon, 1 Sep 97 21:27:14 GMT, dmc...@macnauchtan.com (Douglas P.
McNutt) wrote:
>And does the red refer to the left as seen from the speakers facing the
>audience or vice versa?
Think of the ears of a listener facing the orchestra.
>A fine reason for port and starbord methinks.
Possibly. Presumably the guys at EMI or wherever weren't seamen.
Robert Lieblich
John Nurick wrote:
>
> On Mon, 1 Sep 97 21:27:14 GMT, dmc...@macnauchtan.com (Douglas P.
> McNutt) wrote:
>
> >And does the red refer to the left as seen from the speakers facing the
> >audience or vice versa?
>
> Think of the ears of a listener facing the orchestra.
>
> >A fine reason for port and starbord methinks.
>
> Possibly. Presumably the guys at EMI or wherever weren't seamen.
Apologies for this chestnut, particularly if someone posted it while I
was away, but maybe a few of you have missed it: Newly commissioned
officers in the US Navy standing watch aboard ship are often grilled on
basic military matters and seamanship by more senior officers. One
standard question is "Does the lamp or the lens make the port running
light green?"
About one in twenty remembers the color of the port running light.
Bob Lieblich <lieb...@erols.com>
Kenneth Albanowski
In article <01bcb3f5$57e02cc0$123d63c3@pingu>,
Phill KD <Phi...@ANTISPAMbtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>--
>Phi...@ANTISPAMbtinternet.com
>
>Remove ANTISPAM to reply.
>
>Brian J Goggin <b...@wordwrights.ie> wrote in article
><3403ec1d...@news.indigo.ie>...
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 06:39:33 GMT, haye...@alpha.unisa.ac.za wrote:
>>
>> >In article <EFDpx...@info.uucp> aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca (alan auerbach
>F) writes:
>> >>From: aaue...@mach1.wlu.ca (alan auerbach F)
>> >>Subject: Re: Starboard Side and Port Side
>> >
>> >>Right. But does anybody know when the colors red/green were
>> >>standardized for port/starbord, and why those two were chosen?
>> >
>> >Dunno about the origins, but it's a useful mnemonic - port wine is red.
>>
>>
>> bjg
>>
>> In England we call them Ruby and Tawny (not better, just different).
>Level Meters (PPM's).
>as well !
I think your level meter may just have lucky. I don't know whether it is a
standard, but around here every colored stereo connector I've seen has the
red lead on the right. Thus "the reds were right" as a useful, if a bit
controversial, mnemonic.
--
Kenneth Albanowski (kja...@kjahds.com)
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