what is billion
Giang Nong
Traditionally, a billion in the UK is one million million while a billion in
the USA is ONLY one thousand million.
Now I heard that people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage
(that is 1000 000 000).
Is that true ? Can someone in the UK enlighten me on this matter.
Giang Nong
PennState USA
Geoff Butler
In article <58g3ec$1i...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, Giang Nong
<gi...@essc.psu.edu> writes
It is to an extent true. For example, many national newspapers use
'billion' to mean 1e9 rather than the traditional 1e12.
However, the debate goes on, and there are still those who insist on
using 'billion' in its traditional sense. I think the battle is already
lost, but at the moment 'billion' has two different meanings, which
makes it either a confusing word or a very useful one.
-ler
J B Youles
Giang Nong wrote:
>
> Traditionally, a billion in the UK is one million million while a billion in
> the USA is ONLY one thousand million.
> Now I heard that people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage
> (that is 1000 000 000).
> Is that true ? Can someone in the UK enlighten me on this matter.
>
Yes, in the UK a billion now usually means a thousand million as in the
USA, it used to mean a million million.
In theory, we had the word milliard for a thousand million, and I believe
"millard" is still used in French.
I suppose by extension the word "billiard" should be used for a thousand
billion (i.e. a thousand trillion US), but that would be so confusing
we'd all be snookered.
--
John Youles
-------------------------------------------------------------
"If the recent weather is a result of the greenhouse effect,
then someone must have taken out all the glass."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Simon R. Hughes
Geoff Butler wrote:
>
> In article <58g3ec$1i...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, Giang Nong
> <gi...@essc.psu.edu> writes
> >the USA is ONLY one thousand million.
> >Now I heard that people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage
> >(that is 1000 000 000).
> >Is that true ? Can someone in the UK enlighten me on this matter.
>
> 'billion' to mean 1e9 rather than the traditional 1e12.
>
> However, the debate goes on, and there are still those who insist on
> using 'billion' in its traditional sense. I think the battle is already
> lost, but at the moment 'billion' has two different meanings, which
> makes it either a confusing word or a very useful one.
>
> -ler
I always ask for clarification of the term billion if the need for
clarification is important.
I suggest (with tongue in cheek) that English introduce a new term for
1e9. In the Scandinavian languages, there is a word for 1e9, "Milliard"
then for 1e12, "Billion" is used.
I think a survey would prove that a greater number of people use the
British term than they that use the American.
--
_._._._._._._.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~._._._._._._._
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| Simon R. Hughes |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| shu...@sn.no |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni! |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
_|_|_|_|_|_|_| |_|_|_|_|_|_|_
'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'
Bob Cunningham
"Simon R. Hughes" <shu...@sn.no> said:
>Geoff Butler wrote:
[...]
>> However, the debate goes on, and there are still those who insist on
>> using 'billion' in its traditional sense. I think the battle is already
>> lost, but at the moment 'billion' has two different meanings, which
>> makes it either a confusing word or a very useful one.
>>
>> -ler
>
>I always ask for clarification of the term billion if the need for
>clarification is important.
>
>I suggest (with tongue in cheek) that English introduce a new term for
>1e9. In the Scandinavian languages, there is a word for 1e9, "Milliard"
>then for 1e12, "Billion" is used.
>
>I think a survey would prove that a greater number of people use the
>British term than they that use the American.
I'm a little surprised to see that this thread has continued so far
with no one mentioning that the subject is covered in Mark Israel's AUE
FAQ in a 91-line-long article under the heading "'billion': a U.K.
view" starting at line 5824.
Someone has said we shouldn't point out that things are in the FAQ
without telling how to get the FAQ; so:
The alt.usage.english FAQ can be retrieved by
anonymous FTP from rtfm.mit.edu in the directory
/pub/usenet/alt.usage.english. The file name is
'alt.usage.english_FAQ'.
If you can't do anonymous FTP directly, you can
send the following e-mail message to
bit...@pucc.princeton.edu, with blank subject line:
open rtfm.mit.edu
cd /pub/usenet/alt.usage.english
get alt.usage.english_FAQ
dir
quit
You should receive the FAQ by e-mail within a few
minutes.
There is a way to get the FAQ by e-mail FTP
directly from rtfm.mit.edu, but in experimenting with
the two methods, I have found the response is much,
much faster going through the Princeton service.
B.W. Battin
On Mon, 09 Dec 96 04:10:19 GMT, gi...@essc.psu.edu (Giang Nong) wrote:
>Traditionally, a billion in the UK is one million million while a billion in
>the USA is ONLY one thousand million.
>Now I heard that people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage
>(that is 1000 000 000).
>Is that true ? Can someone in the UK enlighten me on this matter.
>
>Giang Nong
>PennState USA
I've noticed that the BBC World Service gets around this by always
giving the numbers in millions--two thousand million pounds, etc.
-B. W. Battin
Michael B. Quinion
In article: <58g3ec$1i...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> gi...@essc.psu.edu (Giang
>
> Traditionally, a billion in the UK is one million million while a
> billion in the USA is ONLY one thousand million. Now I heard that
> people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage (that is
> 1000 000 000).
British usage is moving toward the US. For a discussion on this, and
how we got into such a mess, see
<http://clever.net/quinion/words/numbers.htm> or
<http://www.quinion.demon.co.uk/words/numbers.htm>.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B Quinion <mic...@quinion.demon.co.uk> Thornbury, Bristol, UK
Web: <http://clever.net/quinion/> and <http://www.quinion.demon.co.uk/>
World Wide Words: */words/ : MQA: */mqa/ : Interpret Britain: */sibh/
Evan Kirshenbaum
In article <32AC32...@dial.pipex.com>,
J B Youles <john....@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>Giang Nong wrote:
>>
>> Traditionally, a billion in the UK is one million million while a billion in
>> the USA is ONLY one thousand million.
>> Now I heard that people in the UK have accepted billion with american usage
>> (that is 1000 000 000).
>>
>
>USA, it used to mean a million million.
>
>In theory, we had the word milliard for a thousand million, and I believe
>"millard" is still used in French.
>
>I suppose by extension the word "billiard" should be used for a thousand
>billion (i.e. a thousand trillion US), but that would be so confusing
>we'd all be snookered.
And just imagine how much two billiard balls would cost!
----
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The plural of "anecdote"
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |is not "data"
Palo Alto, CA 94304
Dr. Peter Kittel
In article <32ACB3...@sn.no> "Simon R. Hughes" <shu...@sn.no> writes:
>Geoff Butler wrote:
>
>I suggest (with tongue in cheek) that English introduce a new term for
>1e9. In the Scandinavian languages, there is a word for 1e9, "Milliard"
>then for 1e12, "Billion" is used.
It's not only Scandinavia, but also Germany and probably whole Europe.
>I think a survey would prove that a greater number of people use the
>British term than they that use the American.
You mean, in the whole world? Don't know. The result would interest me.
--
Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // http://www.pios.de of PIOS
Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ office: pet...@pios.de
A Nothofer
Simon R. Hughes wrote:
>
> I suggest (with tongue in cheek) that English introduce a new term for
> 1e9. In the Scandinavian languages, there is a word for 1e9, "Milliard"
> then for 1e12, "Billion" is used.
>
Not only in the Scandinavian languages. AFAIK (nearly?) all the
continental european languages have the Million for 1e6, the Milliard
for 1e9, the Billion for 1e12 and the Billiard for 1e15. (Correct me if
I'm wrong, but I'm sure at least for German).
Well, England has always been a bit different to the rest of the
continent ;-)
Angela
(An "overseas" student from Germany in York)
Simon Buck
Ysgrifennodd Simon R. Hughes (shu...@sn.no):
I suggest (with tongue in cheek) that English introduce a new term
for 1e9. In the Scandinavian languages, there is a word for 1e9,
"Milliard" then for 1e12, "Billion" is used.
There is one - `gillion'. `Milliard' also exists, but is too similar in
pronunciation to `million'.
I think a survey would prove that a greater number of people use the
British term than they that use the American.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Buck <sj...@cam.ac.uk>
Wittgenstein Archive 44-1223-328200 tel
2 Grantchester Road, Cambridge, CB3 9ED, UK 44-1223-302454 fax