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is it echos or echoes? ... i don't get it , and i don't like it (btw should there be a comma there or not?)

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bosod...@gmail.com

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Jul 19, 2015, 5:39:42 PM7/19/15
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Why ain't it "echos"?

https://www.google.com/#q=is+it+echos+or+echoes
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Stan Brown

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Jul 19, 2015, 7:03:47 PM7/19/15
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On 19 Jul 2015 22:07:35 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:
> You can write »echos«, but it is used much more rarely than »echoes«.
> However, the Pink Floyd song only can be written »Echoes«.
>

I think you want "moreover" rather than "however". Pink Floyd is
consistent with the rule you gave earlier ("echoes" is more common),
so I don't think "however" is right.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time; I'm curious what other native
speakers think about this point.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

Traddict

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Jul 19, 2015, 7:21:20 PM7/19/15
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"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion : MPG.3015f6dd7...@news.individual.net...
> On 19 Jul 2015 22:07:35 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> You can write »echos«, but it is used much more rarely than »echoes«.
>> However, the Pink Floyd song only can be written »Echoes«.
>>
>
> I think you want "moreover" rather than "however". Pink Floyd is
> consistent with the rule you gave earlier ("echoes" is more common),
> so I don't think "however" is right.

I'm not a native speaker but I think it's right because of the "only"
(although I would have written "can only"), which means: the two spellings
are possible, BUT the Pink Floyd song title is "Echoes" and can't be spelled
"Echos". That makes pretty good sense.

Will Parsons

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Jul 19, 2015, 8:26:25 PM7/19/15
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On Sunday, 19 Jul 2015 6:07 PM -0400, Stefan Ram wrote:
> bosod...@gmail.com writes:
>>Why ain't it "echos"?
>
> You can write »echos«, but it is used much more rarely than »echoes«.
> However, the Pink Floyd song only can be written »Echoes«.
>
> The »oe« might have to do with the greek plural form »echoi«
> (my own guess).

Why do you think that the Greek plural of "echo" is "echoi"? And if
it were, why would that influence the English spelling "echoes"?

--
Will
Message has been deleted

Robert Bannister

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Jul 19, 2015, 11:06:29 PM7/19/15
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On 20/07/2015 7:03 am, Stan Brown wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2015 22:07:35 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> You can write »echos«, but it is used much more rarely than »echoes«.
>> However, the Pink Floyd song only can be written »Echoes«.
>>
>
> I think you want "moreover" rather than "however". Pink Floyd is
> consistent with the rule you gave earlier ("echoes" is more common),
> so I don't think "however" is right.
>
> I'm not trying to give you a hard time; I'm curious what other native
> speakers think about this point.
>

My opinion only:
"however" = (more or less) "but", so it fits here;
"moreover" = (more or less) "in addition", so it doesn't.

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

Peter Moylan

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Jul 19, 2015, 11:34:35 PM7/19/15
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If I were writing it, I would omit both the "however" and the
"moreover". Possibly only on re-reading, because I do have a tendency to
over-use "however".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Message has been deleted

Joe Fineman

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Jul 20, 2015, 5:50:35 PM7/20/15
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bosod...@gmail.com writes:

> Why ain't it "echos"?

The situation is pretty chaotic. Fowler (MEU s.v. -o(e)s) says:

No one who is not prepared to flout usage...can possibly escape
doubts: The one kind of whole-hogger will have to write _heros_ and
_cargos_ and _potatos_ and _gos_ and _negros_, while the other must
face _embryoes_, _photoes_, _cameoes, _fiascoes_, and
_generalissimoes_.

He gives a list of tendencies, but no rules. Nothing for it but to look
it up.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: The best includes the beginning of the decline. :||

Stan Brown

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Jul 20, 2015, 8:13:41 PM7/20/15
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On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 17:51:15 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote:
>
> bosod...@gmail.com writes:
>
> > Why ain't it "echos"?
>
> The situation is pretty chaotic. Fowler (MEU s.v. -o(e)s) says:
>
> No one who is not prepared to flout usage...can possibly escape
> doubts: The one kind of whole-hogger will have to write _heros_ and
> _cargos_ and _potatos_ and _gos_ and _negros_, while the other must
> face _embryoes_, _photoes_, _cameoes, _fiascoes_, and
> _generalissimoes_.
>
> He gives a list of tendencies, but no rules. Nothing for it but to look
> it up.

I find it very difficult to remember to write "tornadoes" - that "e"
just looks wrong to me, even though it's right.

Peter Moylan

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Jul 20, 2015, 9:03:02 PM7/20/15
to
On 2015-Jul-21 10:13, Stan Brown wrote:

> I find it very difficult to remember to write "tornadoes" - that "e"
> just looks wrong to me, even though it's right.

I might have to switch to a different font for reading news. Initially I
thought you'd come up with a strange typo in "tomatoes".

GordonD

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Jul 21, 2015, 4:46:12 AM7/21/15
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On 21/07/2015 01:13, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 17:51:15 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote:
>>
>> bosod...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> Why ain't it "echos"?
>>
>> The situation is pretty chaotic. Fowler (MEU s.v. -o(e)s) says:
>>
>> No one who is not prepared to flout usage...can possibly escape
>> doubts: The one kind of whole-hogger will have to write _heros_ and
>> _cargos_ and _potatos_ and _gos_ and _negros_, while the other must
>> face _embryoes_, _photoes_, _cameoes, _fiascoes_, and
>> _generalissimoes_.
>>
>> He gives a list of tendencies, but no rules. Nothing for it but to look
>> it up.
>
> I find it very difficult to remember to write "tornadoes" - that "e"
> just looks wrong to me, even though it's right.
>

Though the UK band spelt it without the 'e'.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Jul 21, 2015, 5:32:25 AM7/21/15
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I agree that you don't neither either "moreover" or "however".

However, there is another English-usage point that doesn't seem to have
been raised and which I regard as mor important:

>>>> the Pink Floyd song only can be written »Echoes«

The position of "only" suggests that the Pink-Floyd song provides the
only circumstance in which one would write "Echoes", whereas what he
means is that that song must be written with "Echoes" (why,
incidentally?), saying nothing about other contexts. In other words he
should have written

>>>> the Pink Floyd song can only be written "Echoes"

(I've also fixed the quotation marks, but those of us who know Stefan
know that he hasn't yet learned how to type proper ones.)


--
athel

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Jul 21, 2015, 5:45:41 AM7/21/15
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According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary "echo" derives ultimately
from "eche", which Liddell and Scott spell ηχη (smooth breathing on the
first η, acute on the second, but I can't do those). As a feminine noun
it certainly wouldn't be ηχοι in the plural, but even if it were it
would be irrelevant to the spelling of "echoes", as you say.
--
athel

Robert Bannister

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Jul 21, 2015, 9:21:57 PM7/21/15
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On 21/07/2015 8:13 am, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 17:51:15 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote:
>>
>> bosod...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> Why ain't it "echos"?
>>
>> The situation is pretty chaotic. Fowler (MEU s.v. -o(e)s) says:
>>
>> No one who is not prepared to flout usage...can possibly escape
>> doubts: The one kind of whole-hogger will have to write _heros_ and
>> _cargos_ and _potatos_ and _gos_ and _negros_, while the other must
>> face _embryoes_, _photoes_, _cameoes, _fiascoes_, and
>> _generalissimoes_.
>>
>> He gives a list of tendencies, but no rules. Nothing for it but to look
>> it up.
>
> I find it very difficult to remember to write "tornadoes" - that "e"
> just looks wrong to me, even though it's right.
>
I'm pretty sure I've seen a menu sporting "tournedoes".

Robin Bignall

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Jul 22, 2015, 5:34:10 PM7/22/15
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Or tournados, in France.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

R H Draney

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Jul 22, 2015, 6:18:07 PM7/22/15
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Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:o030ratomr6dqdiqg...@4ax.com:
Tornado (pronounced with the "ah" vowel) was the name of Zorro's horse in
the 1950s Disney series...("Toronado" in some other versions)....r

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 22, 2015, 10:15:46 PM7/22/15
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Katisha rhymes it with "bravado," no?

Peter Moylan

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Jul 22, 2015, 11:15:52 PM7/22/15
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On 2015-Jul-23 08:19, R H Draney wrote:

> Tornado (pronounced with the "ah" vowel) was the name of Zorro's horse in
> the 1950s Disney series...("Toronado" in some other versions)

A fiery horse with the speed of dust. A cloud of light. A mighty cry ...

Oh, sorry. Wrong horse.

Janet

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Jul 23, 2015, 4:32:55 AM7/23/15
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In article <o030ratomr6dqdiqg...@4ax.com>,
docr...@ntlworld.com says...
Watch out for southerly wind

Janet

Stan Brown

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Jul 23, 2015, 8:55:53 PM7/23/15
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On 22 Jul 2015 22:19:05 GMT, R H Draney wrote:
> Tornado (pronounced with the "ah" vowel) was the name of Zorro's horse in
> the 1950s Disney series...("Toronado" in some other versions)....r
>

"In vain you interrupt with this tornado.
He is the only son of your Mikado."

Was the -ah- pronunciation of "tornado" usual in Victorian times, or
was Gilbert just forcing a rhyme?

Dr. HotSalt

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Jul 24, 2015, 12:36:58 PM7/24/15
to
On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 2:39:42 PM UTC-7, bosod...@gmail.com wrote:
> Why ain't it "echos"?
>
> https://www.google.com/#q=is+it+echos+or+echoes

Well, in my experience, "echos" is what a sound source does when it creates an echo, and "echoes" are more than one echo.


Dr. HotSalt
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