Trouble at t mill
Mike Lyle
expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
Mike.
Harvey Van Sickle
> Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of the
> expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
Can't help with the source, but I tend to think of it as
"There's trouble at t'mill, Mr Ackroyd".
Since Edward Ackroyd was a 19th-century mill-owner in Halifax -- and,
like Titus Salt, the builder of a model village for his workers -- that
may help to narrow the search a bit.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 20 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
John Dean
I assume that in at least one of the thousands of mills operating in the
North of England there was, on at least one occasion, trouble.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Jacqui
> I assume that in at least one of the thousands of mills operating
> in the North of England there was, on at least one occasion,
> trouble.
I expect one of the cross beams went out of skew on the treadle.
Jac
John Dean
Ey up lass, tha'rt clartin t' boomsmacker wi't' oggnapper.
sage
Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3fa4d950.03060...@posting.google.com...
> Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of the
> expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
>
> Mike.
As well, see "Ombuds" thread below.
Cheers, Sage
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of the
> expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
I don't know the origin, but I suspect that the popularity can largely
be traced to Monty Python's "Spanish Inquisition" sketch, although
there it's "trouble at mill".
Animated titles. Music: Black Dyke Mills Band playing a slow dirge.
Stock shot of mill town at the turn of the century - at night.
SUBTITLE: 'JARROW - NEW YEAR'S EVE 1911'
SUBTITLE: 'JARROW 1912'
Mix through to mill-owner's opulent sitting room at the turn of
the century. Lady Mountback sits with her crochet. There is a
knock on the door.
Lady Mountback Come in.
Enter Reg, cap in hand.
Reg Trouble at mill.
Lady Mountback Oh no. What sort of trouble?
Reg One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Lady Mountback Pardon?
Reg One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Lady Mountback I don't understand what you're saying.
Reg (slightly irritatedly and with exaggeratedly clear accent)
One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treddle.
Lady Mountback Well what on earth does that mean?
Reg I don't know. Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and
say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all - I didn't
expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
Jarring chord. The door flies open and Cardinal Ximinez of Spain
enters, flanked by two junior cardinals. Cardinal Biggles has
goggles pushed over his forehead. Cardinal Fang is just Cardinal
Fang.
Ximinez Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon
is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and
surprise.... our two weapons are fear and surprise...and
ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear,
surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost
fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our
four...no... amongst our weapons.... amongst our
weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll
come in again. (exit and exeunt)
http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode15.htm
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Pious Jews have a category of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |questions that can harmlessly be
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |allowed to go without an answer
|until the Messiah comes. I suspect
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |that this is one of them.
(650)857-7572 | Joseph C. Fineman
Jacqui
Mike Lyle writes:
>
>> Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of
>> the expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
>
> I don't know the origin, but I suspect that the popularity can
> largely be traced to Monty Python's "Spanish Inquisition" sketch,
> although there it's "trouble at mill".
Four hours and fourteen minutes behind, Evan. (Of course I had the
advantage of seeing it on TV this week.)
Jac
David Alcorn
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>>Jacqui wrote:
>> I expect one of the cross beams went out of skew on the treadle.
>>
>Ey up lass, tha'rt clartin t' boomsmacker wi't' oggnapper.
John, you know perfectly well from your forays into falafel, that, in
that particular forum, if you post in any other language but French
YOU ARE LIABLE TO SHOUTED AT / DOWN! Mutatis mutandis [oops!], for
AUE..?
Translation, please?
;-))
(It's the 'lass' that always starts me off on this kind of thing,
especially when followed by 'boomsmacker')
David.
Matti Lamprhey
> mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Lyle) writes:
>
> > Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of
> > the expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
>
> I don't know the origin, but I suspect that the popularity can largely
> be traced to Monty Python's "Spanish Inquisition" sketch, although
> there it's "trouble at mill".
I'm sure the saying predates MP by a very long way -- perhaps to
Victorian melodrama. I was certainly aware of it as a youth in the 60s.
Matti
Matti Lamprhey
Just to add that MP employed the phrase in a slightly off-treadle
manner; the canonical version indicates _labour_ trouble rather than
the mechanical variety. And I'm not at all convinced that MP did much
to increase the popularity of the phrase, either.
Matti
Evan Kirshenbaum
Maybe not over there, but I'd guess that most of the people who
recognize the phrase on this side of the puddle can trace it to them.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The General Theorem of Usenet
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Information: If you really want to
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |know the definitive answer, post
|the wrong information, and wait for
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |someone to come by and explain in
(650)857-7572 |excruciating detail precisely how
|wrong you are.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Eric The Read
Ben Zimmer
OED2 has:
trouble at (the or t') mill: an industrial dispute, as
at a Midlands or North Country textile mill; also transf.
and fig., alluding to any disagreement or problem at work,
home, etc.
1967 'J. WINTON' H.M.S.Leviathan xx. 333 He replaced the
receiver, and assumed a passable Yorkshire accent. 'Ah'm
sorry, lass, but there's trouble down at t'mill... It looks
as if we've got to go to sea in a hurry.' 1977 New Scientist
14 Apr. 84/1 This latter-day trouble at t'mill seems to stem
from a dispute about what we mean by such expressions as 'use
water' or 'abstract water' [at a water-mill]. 1982 Times 26
Aug. 16/7 Stanley has trouble at mill. A G Stanley Holdings..
has dropped into losses at the interim stage..mainly because
of continued problems at its Holmes Chapel wallpaper mill.
1984 Times 15 Sept. 8/1 There's trouble at t'mill in the
board room of Grimsby Town Football Club.
Matti Lamprhey
> "Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> writes:
> > [...] And I'm not at all convinced that MP did
> > much to increase the popularity of the phrase, either.
>
> Maybe not over there, but I'd guess that most of the people who
> recognize the phrase on this side of the puddle can trace it to them.
Absolutely -- that thought occurred to me a bit too late!
Matti
Dr Robin Bignall
And I as a youth in the 50s.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Remote Hertfordshire
England
Matti Lamprhey
> "Matti Lamprhey" <matti-...@totally-official.com> wrote:
> >"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote...
> >> mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Lyle) writes:
> >>
> >> > Sorry: I got bored with Googling. Does anybody know the origin of
> >> > the expression "trouble oop at t mill"?
> >>
> >> I don't know the origin, but I suspect that the popularity can
> >> largely be traced to Monty Python's "Spanish Inquisition" sketch,
> >> although there it's "trouble at mill".
> >
> >I'm sure the saying predates MP by a very long way -- perhaps to
> >Victorian melodrama. I was certainly aware of it as a youth in the
> >60s.
> >
> And I as a youth in the 50s.
OED2's cites posted by Ben Zimmer appear to go back only as far as 1967,
which rather surprised me. That's only a couple of years antePython,
FCS!
Matti
John Dean
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:28:32 +0100, "John Dean"
> <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>> Jacqui wrote:
>
>>> I expect one of the cross beams went out of skew on the treadle.
>>>
>
>> Ey up lass, tha'rt clartin t' boomsmacker wi't' oggnapper.
>
> John, you know perfectly well from your forays into falafel, that, in
> that particular forum, if you post in any other language but French
> YOU ARE LIABLE TO SHOUTED AT / DOWN! Mutatis mutandis [oops!], for
> AUE..?
> Translation, please?
I only speak the language of my forefathers, I don't claim to understand it
--
John 'Ecky Thump Black Belt Third Dan' Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Don Aitken
A note on the pronunciation. "Trouble at t'mill and "trouble at mill"
represent the same phrase. The "the" is elided completely and
manifests itself only as an increased stress on the "t" of "at" and a
momentary pause after it.
I am surprised the citations are so recent. It was a staple of
stereotype-northern comedians in the fifties, and certainly goes back
to the music halls.
--
Don Aitken
David Alcorn
<john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>I only speak the language of my forefathers, I don't claim to understand it
U2?
(and please don't give me that Third Dan treatment!)
DA
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
>David Alcorn wrote:
>> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:28:32 +0100, "John Dean"
>> <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Jacqui wrote:
>>
>>>> I expect one of the cross beams went out of skew on the treadle.
>>>>
>>
>>> Ey up lass, tha'rt clartin t' boomsmacker wi't' oggnapper.
>>
>> John, you know perfectly well from your forays into falafel, that, in
>> that particular forum, if you post in any other language but French
>> YOU ARE LIABLE TO SHOUTED AT / DOWN! Mutatis mutandis [oops!], for
>> AUE..?
>> Translation, please?
>
>I only speak the language of my forefathers, I don't claim to understand it
How did you come to have four fathers? (Sorry. Maybe I need new glasses,
too.)
Dr Robin Bignall
I'd agree with Don's last paragraph. You know my time-sense (or lack of it)
but I'm sure I heard it in those comedies during and just after the war -
'Much Binding in the Marsh', for example. Kenneth Horne (and Richard
Murdoch) were the stars of MBITM, and the phrase is Horne-ish, to say the
least. I'd suspect music halls as the origin, too. Rob Wilton, Sandy
Powell, one of that mob. They were quite old when I was a kid, and probably
cut their teeth in the music halls early last century.
John Dean
phrases in the cites is fortuitous but not a primary target.
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Mike Lyle
I.e., none of us knows. Thanks anyhow, gang. (My, of course Welsh, car
mechanic used the expression in a pretty good general-purpose Northern
English accent when I had driven a sad-sounding car onto his
forecourt.)
Mike.