shave and a haircut
togashi
from a novel.
He found a nice piece of floor and sat down, tired from the
journey, rested his head against the wall. It took several minutes
before he heard the tapping.
Shave and a haircut, six-bits.
Shave and a haircut, six-bits. (p708, T.Clancy)
Context: He was a prisonar. He was taken from a camp to
a jail through the hard journey.
Question: I'm not sure of the meaning of the last sentence
"Shave and a haircut, six-bits".
I appreciate it in advance if you help me with it.
Jack Gavin
It's a tapping cadence (though, before inflation, it was two bits, not
six).
Sort of "bump-buddy-bump-bump [skip one "bump" beat] bump-bump".
This is a *very* common tapping/knocking cadence, usually with one person
summoning by doing the first half (up to the skip), and the other person
responding with the final "bump-bump".
When done on a musical instrument, there are particular pitches used,
usually:
<http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1400979798/pagename=/RP/SHARE/sou
ndclip.html/UPC=5677555202/disc=01/track=54/source=wmf>.
Here is one that's a little different:
<http://www.bluegrassbanjo.org/shave.wav>
So, in your example, the one prisoner was using an immediately recognizable
pattern to get the attention of the other prisoner.
--
Jack Gavin
Robert Lipton
But will you appreciate it after? Oh, I'll take the risk.
It's a rapping cadence. Five equally-spaced beats, pause, final two.
Typically one person will do the first five, then the other person the
final two. There's a bit of a tune that goes with it.
Interesting that it's six bits. I always new it as 'two bits.'
Inflation, no doubt.
Bob
togashi
>
>Interesting that it's six bits. I always new it as 'two bits.'
>Inflation, no doubt.
>
In our case, ten dollars.
What do you say about it? Hyper-inflation?
Rich Ulrich
<bobl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> togashi wrote:
> >
> > Let me have a question about the following sentece
> > from a novel.
> >
> > He found a nice piece of floor and sat down, tired from the
- I thought this humor offered cross-cultural difficulty: He is in
a jail, as you say. If he were a fine hotel, he might "find a
comfortable looking padded chair." Being in someplace dreadful,
you might expect him to find "avoid the dirtiest sections" and there
would not be any "nice" sections. So there is a bit of a twist, to
say, He "found a nice piece of floor and sat down."
> > journey, rested his head against the wall. It took several minutes
> > before he heard the tapping.
> > Shave and a haircut, six-bits.
> > Shave and a haircut, six-bits. (p708, T.Clancy)
> >
> > Context: He was a prisonar. He was taken from a camp to
> > a jail through the hard journey.
> > Question: I'm not sure of the meaning of the last sentence
> > "Shave and a haircut, six-bits".
> >
> > I appreciate it in advance if you help me with it.
>
> But will you appreciate it after? Oh, I'll take the risk.
> It's a rapping cadence. Five equally-spaced beats, pause, final two.
- The way I have always heard it, it would tap-out in an 8/8 meter
as 1-2-and-3-4, 6-7 . Long-short-short-long-long (pause) long-long.
It can be used as a "secret knock" or a password (pass-knock?).
And then there was the special "secret knock" that I always admired,
in a novel by R.A. Rafferty, where the curmudgeon told his visitor to
use, next time, "one hundred and one longs followed by a short."
> Typically one person will do the first five, then the other person the
> final two. There's a bit of a tune that goes with it.
>
> Interesting that it's six bits. I always new it as 'two bits.'
> Inflation, no doubt.
I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
--
Rich Ulrich, wpi...@pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~wpilib/index.html
Jack Gavin
Interesting. I had never heard *six*! New Jersey.
<http://www.google.com/search?q=shave+haircut+%22two+bits%22> shows 412
hits for "two bits".
<http://www.google.com/search?q=shave+haircut+%22six+bits%22> shows 31
for "six bits".
--
Jack Gavin
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
N.Mitchum
-----
> he heard the tapping.
> Shave and a haircut, six-bits.
> Shave and a haircut, six-bits. (p708, T.Clancy)
>
> "Shave and a haircut, six-bits".
The words represent a rhythm well known to Americans: dah dit-dit
dah dah, [pause] dah dah. Or dum diddy dum dum, dum dum. There's
also a musical version of it. I'd never heard it with "six bits"
however; for me it's always been "two bits." Six bits is
seventy-five cents; two bits is twenty-five. Which shows you how
far back the saying goes, if the barber charged only a quarter.
(Why do you tell us Tom Clancy wrote these lines without telling
us where he wrote them?)
----NM
Jitze Couperus
<caf4...@pop12.odn.ne.jp> wrote:
>Let me have a question about the following sentece
>from a novel.
>
>
>He found a nice piece of floor and sat down, tired from the
>journey, rested his head against the wall. It took several minutes
>before he heard the tapping.
>Shave and a haircut, six-bits.
>Shave and a haircut, six-bits. (p708, T.Clancy)
>
As posted elswhere in this thread - these are words
usually associated with a cadence rythm.
A mathematician might have used alternate wording:
Ee to the eye pye (is) minus one
Or for the programmers amongst you, e**(i*pi) = -1
Jitze
Donna Richoux
> In article <387v3t0q3lkn9lf04...@4ax.com>,
> wpi...@pitt.edu wrote:
> >
> > I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
>
> Interesting. I had never heard *six*! New Jersey.
>
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=shave+haircut+%22two+bits%22> shows 412
> hits for "two bits".
>
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=shave+haircut+%22six+bits%22> shows 31
> for "six bits".
I wonder how old the expression is. It's a tough sort of phrase to date.
I asked my mother, who is 73, and she said she remembers it as being
"two bits." She looked in Google and said, "Somebody connected it to a
jazz song of 1914." I think she means this listing:
Composer: Music - Jimmie V. Monaco, Words - Joe McCarthy
Quote: {1914} Shave And A Haircut, Bay Rum
(Rum Diddle-De-Um Bum, That's It)
(Shave And A Haircut, Two Bits)
I suppose the names in parentheses are alternatives, but you still can't
tell the relative ages.
A few other snippets of info found through Google:
Composer: ?
Quote: {1911} Hot Scotch Rag
Song: Shave And A Haircut, Bay Rum - traditional
Rabbit's Foot
George Linus Cobb - 1915:
This clever piece, while not a rag, does capitalize on what was
quickly becoming the most popular dance of the 1910s and 1920s, the Fox
Trot. ... It is also one of the first popular pieces to include the
venerable "shave and a haircut... two bits" theme, and possibly the
first time it was used with the triplet figure in the place of "and
a..."
From BLUES-L Digest - 15 Sep 1999
From: William Sakovich <sako...@gol.com>
Subject: Re: Bo Diddley;Shave and a Haircut
I've seen a British journalist call it the "tradesman's knock".
But about Bo making it his own, or to say it is his "distinctive"
rhythm--hold on there! Bo's rhythm is just a clave rhythm, and a simple
one at that. It's all over Africa and the Caribbean, particularly Cuba.
--
For what it's worth --- Donna Richoux
Sam Hinton
>Rich Ulrich wpi...@pitt.edu
>Date: Tue, Dec 19, 2000 9:54 AM
>
>I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
**********************
Same here! Oklahoma, 1925; six bits.
Sam
La Jolla, CA USA
Bob Cunningham
>On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 9:54 AM,Rich Ulrich wpi...@pitt.edu, wrote:
>>Rich Ulrich wpi...@pitt.edu
>>Date: Tue, Dec 19, 2000 9:54 AM
>>I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
>Same here! Oklahoma, 1925; six bits.
Likewise. Utah, 1930s: six bits.
R. Fontana
New York, 1970s: two bits (based mainly on television-watching, most of
which was national in origin and content).
Where did Tom Clancy grow up?
R J Valentine
...
New York, 1950s: two bits.
As a reality check, when I was in the Army in the 1960s, haircuts were
thirty cents at the NCO club and thirty-five cents at the PX, and shaves
weren't any more than that. Six bits doesn't seem like much of a deal for
much earlier than that.
Maybe the barbers out west had a better union.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@clark.net?subject=%3Cnews:alt.usage.english%3E%20>
N.Mitchum
-----
Tough question, since he's never grown up.
----NM
R. Fontana
Looks like he was born in Baltimore and probably grew up in the Baltimore
area.
Alec "Skitt" P.
"R J Valentine" <r...@clark.net> wrote in message
news:7I706.6070$Sl.3...@iad-read.news.verio.net...
>
> New York, 1950s: two bits.
>
> As a reality check, when I was in the Army in the 1960s, haircuts were
> thirty cents at the NCO club and thirty-five cents at the PX, and shaves
> weren't any more than that. Six bits doesn't seem like much of a deal for
> much earlier than that.
At Thule AB, circa 1957, haircuts were two bits at the base barber shop. I
don't know about shaves -- I've never had one in a barber shop.
I am not sure, but "six bits" is all I can remember ever hearing for that
"shave and a haircut" paradiddle.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://i.am/skitt/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Joseph C Fineman
as a sort of all-purpose coda to just about any performance by
barbershop quartets, barroom pianists, and other such humble
entertainers in the days before their business was industrialized.
When sung, it had a variety of words -- sometimes in succession:
Sung by the whorehouse quartet.
Have you got a hard-on? Not yet.
Are you gonna get one? You bet!
etc.
The barbershop-quartet tradition might be a promising area for
research into this question.
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: Wasting your money is wasting someone else's work. :||
Bob Cunningham
said:
At
http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0762145.html
it says he was born 4/12/47 in Baltimore, Maryland. It doesn't say
where he went after that.
I think probably the difference between two bits and six bits is
diachronic, though, rather than regional. In the 1930s I used to pay
two bits for just a haircut in small towns in Utah and Nevada. I
didn't have much to shave then, but I can imagine that in a large city
six bits could have been a typical price for a shave and a haircut.
Later generations who changed it to "two bits" apparently gave little
thought to pricing reality.
To me "six bits" is more euphonious than "two bits". The "ix" and the
"its" make a better phonetic combination than do "oo" and "its".
R Fontana
I was also thinking that somehow the "six bits" fits with the tune better,
at least in the wonderfully distorted Doc Severinsen rendition.
I think the lowest price I ever paid for a haircut was $5.00 + tip.
Tootsie
Bob Cunningham wrote in message
>Sam Hinton said:
>>Rich Ulrich wrote:
>>>I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
>>Same here! Oklahoma, 1925; six bits.
>Likewise. Utah, 1930s: six bits.
Detroit, 1950's: two bits. Until now, I'd never heard "six bits." (I
wonder if there was ever a "four bits" version.)
The words to the "song" were sometimes these:
Shave and a haircut, two bits
Who was the barber -- Tom Mix
Who did he marry -- His horse
What was the outcome -- Dee-vorce!
At that time, Tom Mix was no longer a big cowboy star, but the name fit.
His horse's name, I think, was Tony. But maybe it was really Toni...
Tootsie
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>
>Bob Cunningham wrote in message
>>Sam Hinton said:
>>>Rich Ulrich wrote:
>
>
>>>>I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
>
>>>Same here! Oklahoma, 1925; six bits.
>
>>Likewise. Utah, 1930s: six bits.
>
>
>Detroit, 1950's: two bits. Until now, I'd never heard "six bits." (I
>wonder if there was ever a "four bits" version.)
My two bits on the subject? It's two bits and two bits only. Virginia,
California, New York, Hawaii, New Mexico, Maine, and my fingers are
getting tired.
Shave and a haircut, two bits
Charles Riggs
Bob Cunningham
>Charles Riggs
Thank goodness we have that settled!
For a while there I was afraid we were going to have a persistent
difference of opinion on our hands.
I asked my wife about it. She grew up in Missouri, Arkansas, and
Tennessee. She said "six bits". I'll tell her she's wrong, because
Charles Riggs says so.
Charles Riggs
Note that I didn't mention I've ever lived in any of those three
states so I'm sure that She Who Must Be Obeyed is not wrong.
Charles Riggs
Aaron J Dinkin
> R. Fontana <rf...@is9.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> ] On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Bob Cunningham wrote:
> ]
> ]> On 20 Dec 2000 15:06:08 GMT, slhin...@aol.com (Sam Hinton) said:
> ]>
> ]> >On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 9:54 AM,Rich Ulrich wpi...@pitt.edu, wrote:
> ]>
> ]> >>Rich Ulrich wpi...@pitt.edu
> ]> >>Date: Tue, Dec 19, 2000 9:54 AM
> ]>
> ]> >>I have never heard two bits. Texas, 1960: six bits.
> ]>
> ]> >Same here! Oklahoma, 1925; six bits.
> ]>
> ]> Likewise. Utah, 1930s: six bits.
> ]
> ] New York, 1970s: two bits (based mainly on television-watching, most of
> ] which was national in origin and content).
>
> New York, 1950s: two bits.
Massachusetts, 1980s: two bits.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Jack Gavin
My mom reports: NJ, 1920s: two bits.
--
Jack Gavin
Tom Deveson
<jackgavi...@home.com> writes
My father: London, 1920s: bay rum
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
John Varela
wrote:
> > ] which was national in origin and content).
> :>
> :> New York, 1950s: two bits.
> :
> :Massachusetts, 1980s: two bits.
>
> South Texas, 1950s: two bits.
I just did a family survey:
New Orleans, 1940s, two bits; 1960s, six bits
Southern Illinois, 1940s, two bits
South Jersey, 1960s, six bits.
Do I detect a trend?
--
John Varela
McLean, VA USA
R Fontana
Generational? Doesn't seem so, if you consider the other data that
has (have) been put forward; just consider young Dinkin as an example.
Nor does there seem to be any clear regional divide. One possibility
might be the way in which the phrase was learned.
In my case, as I mentioned, it must have been primarily television, and
much of the materials I watched on television were ancient ones. It may
be the older and more 'official' cultural sources taught the "two bits"
version, while an almost-as-old "six bits" version began to gain in
popularity but was transmitted primarily via 'non-official' cultural
sources.
What *is* interesting is that there are, evidently, only two versions, two
bits and six bits.
Bob Cunningham
said:
>> > :Massachusetts, 1980s: two bits.
Not really. I have inputs from two people, one born in 1974 and a
resident of Southern California ever since, the other born and raised
in Chicago forty or fifty years ago, who say they had never heard
anything but "Shave and a haircut, two cents" until I brought up the
other versions. The young man from Southern California thinks there
may have been a popular song that mentioned the "two cents" version.
Another lifelong Southern California resident, a bright young lady who
graduated from UC Berkeley last spring, had never heard of "two bits",
"six bits", or any other bits having to do with money. She listened
in wide-eyed wonder as we explained there was a time when people
rarely said anything but "two bits", "four bits", or "six bits" when
referring to 25, 50, or 75 cents. She thought the version of "shave
and a haircut" she might have heard ended with "two bits", but she had
never had any idea what it meant.
That sort of thing might be the explanation for the "two cents"
version. Someone hears "two bits", has no idea what it means, and
changes it to "two cents" to make it make sense.
If someone would tally the reports thus far, I would expect them to
find that "six bits" is more likely to have been heard in the West,
and is more likely to be considered the right version among older
people. There would be outliers (in the statistical sense), but I
think the data would cluster around the trends I've suggested.
(My older son, who was born in 1947, feels certain that "six bits" is
the correct version. He may have learned it from me, though.)
R Fontana
> On Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:05:39 -0500, R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu>
> said:
>
> >What *is* interesting is that there are, evidently, only two versions, two
> >bits and six bits.
>
> Not really. I have inputs from two people, one born in 1974 and a
> resident of Southern California ever since, the other born and raised
> in Chicago forty or fifty years ago, who say they had never heard
> anything but "Shave and a haircut, two cents" until I brought up the
> other versions. The young man from Southern California thinks there
> may have been a popular song that mentioned the "two cents" version.
>
> Another lifelong Southern California resident, a bright young lady who
> graduated from UC Berkeley last spring, had never heard of "two bits",
> "six bits", or any other bits having to do with money. She listened
> in wide-eyed wonder as we explained there was a time when people
> rarely said anything but "two bits", "four bits", or "six bits" when
> referring to 25, 50, or 75 cents.
Actually I wasn't aware of this either. I knew, from something I learned
long ago, that "two bits" means "twenty-five cents", but I never thought
it was a usage that was more prevalent than "twenty-five cents" or "a
quarter" (though I don't know how long we've had quarter-dollar coins),
and I assumed it was restricted to certain occupational or social groups.
> She thought the version of "shave
> and a haircut" she might have heard ended with "two bits", but she had
> never had any idea what it meant.
>
> That sort of thing might be the explanation for the "two cents"
> version. Someone hears "two bits", has no idea what it means, and
> changes it to "two cents" to make it make sense.
That seems likely. I did a cursory search for song lyrics containing the
"two cents" version, but found nothing. If I had to guess where I first
heard "two bits", I'd say it was probably old cartoons, which would have
been from the 1930s or 1940s.
Incidentally I was watching TV today and I caught a Three Stooges short
film in which "two bits" was worked into a joke (but I can't remember what
it was exactly).
One thing I guess I've been assuming is that the use of "bit" for currency
terminology was already becoming old-fashioned by the beginning of the
20th century, and that "two bits" survived longer than any general use of
"bits". This assumption would seem to be incorrect from what you've said.
> If someone would tally the reports thus far, I would expect them to
> find that "six bits" is more likely to have been heard in the West,
> and is more likely to be considered the right version among older
> people. There would be outliers (in the statistical sense), but I
> think the data would cluster around the trends I've suggested.
>
> (My older son, who was born in 1947, feels certain that "six bits" is
> the correct version. He may have learned it from me, though.)
I wonder if research into price history could shed some light on this.
Intriguingly, one website states that in 1935 one Ohio barbershop charged
50 cents for a haircut and 25 cents for a shave. (This web page however
mentions the song in passing and assumes that "two bits" is the correct
version.)
But what I meant, anyway, is that we don't seem to have anyone contending
that it was "shave and a haircut, four bits" or "shave and a haircut,
eight bits".
Tom Deveson
>What *is* interesting is that there are, evidently, only two versions, two
>bits and six bits.
My father (born London 1910) always said the rhythm thus:
"Shave and a haircut: bay rum."
My brother and I (born in the 1940s) learned it thus, and had never
heard the 'bits' version until meeting it in the USA. Some of my
father's phrases of this kind -- cribbage terms for example -- came from
his grandfather, who was born in about 1850, but I don't know whether
this is an example.
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
R Fontana
> R Fontana writes
> >What *is* interesting is that there are, evidently, only two versions, two
> >bits and six bits.
>
> My father (born London 1910) always said the rhythm thus:
>
> "Shave and a haircut: bay rum."
Ah, I didn't know whether you (or whoever it was who posted that before)
was serious. This almost sounds to a contemporary ear like it could have
been part of a commercial jingle, using an already-existing popular song
to sell a product, rather like using the "Shake your booty" song to sell
Tollhouse Cookies, or the "Cool Jerk" song to sell Cool-Whip. But given
your father's date of birth this bay rum version may be as old as any of
the others.
Tom Deveson
>Ah, I didn't know whether you (or whoever it was who posted that before)
>was serious. This almost sounds to a contemporary ear like it could have
>been part of a commercial jingle, using an already-existing popular song
>to sell a product, rather like using the "Shake your booty" song to sell
>Tollhouse Cookies, or the "Cool Jerk" song to sell Cool-Whip. But given
>your father's date of birth this bay rum version may be as old as any of
>the others.
I went and had a look on Deja, and two 'bay rum' uses are cited, both
from the USA. One is from John O'Hara's *Appointment in Samarra* (1934)
and one from a Flintstones episode. O'Hara was born in 1905, but I don't
know when any Flintstones scriptwriters were born. The thick plottens.
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Bob Cunningham
said:
>On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Tom Deveson wrote:
From
http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~david/derya/storys4/story3909.htm
:
Three shots in quick succession dies way quickly. Almost
immediately afterwards, there was an answering shot a few
hundred yards ahead. Phil fired five shots in the pattern
of the first part of the time-honoured rhythm ‘shave and
a haircut, two pence’.
Donna Richoux
Since neither of you mention the fact that I mentioned "bay rum" several
days ago, I will repeat this part. From a Web page about recordings of
old popular songs:
> Composer: Music - Jimmie V. Monaco, Words - Joe McCarthy
> Quote: {1914} Shave And A Haircut, Bay Rum
> (Rum Diddle-De-Um Bum, That's It)
> (Shave And A Haircut, Two Bits)
After which I commented:
> I suppose the names in parentheses are alternatives, but you still can't
> tell the relative ages.
So far we do not have any citation in print earlier than this, 1914, and
taking this sheerly at face value, it is "Bay Rum" that is dated 1914.
You can't tell anything about the dates of the other two.
--
The plick thottens --- Donna Richoux
Tom Deveson
>Since neither of you mention the fact that I mentioned "bay rum" several
>days ago, I will repeat this part. From a Web page about recordings of
>old popular songs:
>
>> Composer: Music - Jimmie V. Monaco, Words - Joe McCarthy
>> Quote: {1914} Shave And A Haircut, Bay Rum
>> (Rum Diddle-De-Um Bum, That's It)
>> (Shave And A Haircut, Two Bits)
Apologies, Donna, for missing that reference. Thanks for giving a date
and the related helpful thoughts.
At the risk of running the topic into the ground, I asked the people
round our lunch table in South London. My friend John (b 1950) offered
no words at all; my wife (born North Shields, Northumberland 1947)
offered 'bay rum'; our older daughter (b London 1975) offered 'two bits'
but didn't know what that meant apart from 'something to do with
American money'; our son (b 1977) offered 'two bits' and thought he'd
read it in a copy of *MAD* in a joke about secret knocks; our younger
daughter (b 1981) thought it was just a rhythm without words.
I haven't gone and disturbed the neighbours.
Tom
--
Tom Deveson
Alec "Skitt" P.
"R Fontana" <re...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.100122...@aloha.cc.columbia.edu...
>
> But what I meant, anyway, is that we don't seem to have anyone contending
> that it was "shave and a haircut, four bits" or "shave and a haircut,
> eight bits".
I never heard "eight bits" used in any context, but "four bits" was still in
common use when I arrived in the USA in 1949, but not for the expression we
are discussing.
For the "shave and a haircut", I'm a six bit man.
John Varela
> I don't know how long we've had quarter-dollar coins
Since 1796.
R Fontana
I would guess that the Flintstones scriptwriters were born after 1905.
Evan Kirshenbaum
I don't know about writers for individual episodes, but the creators
of the Flintstones, William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, were born in
1910 and 1911 respectively. The series ran from 1960 to 1966, so I'd
guess that there were few, if any, writers born that early.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |In the beginning, there were no
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |reasons, there were only causes.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Daniel Dennet
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Incidentally I was watching TV today and I caught a Three Stooges short
>film in which "two bits" was worked into a joke (but I can't remember what
>it was exactly).
There are adults who watch the Three Stooges? It was too juvenile for
me even when a juvenile.
Charles Riggs
P&D Schultz
Heavens, how dismissive. Three Stooges Studies have played a role in
many PhD dissertations. The Stooges' image is an important element in
the web site of the prestigious University of Durham, one of Britain's
leading centres of learning.
http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dbr0as/resmethods.html
\\P. Schultz
R Fontana
Who says I'm an adult?
But, in fact, I find that I don't have much patience for the Stooges these
days.
Incidentally, I tried to watch an episode of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_
tonight, on your recommendation, but I wasn't too impressed. (I then
watched _Dark Angel_ which, I'm a bit embarrassed to say, I like.)
R Fontana
And isn't it interesting that Curly, an anarchist, had a shaved head?
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Charles Riggs wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:35:37 -0500, R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Incidentally I was watching TV today and I caught a Three Stooges short
>> >film in which "two bits" was worked into a joke (but I can't remember what
>> >it was exactly).
>>
>> There are adults who watch the Three Stooges? It was too juvenile for
>> me even when a juvenile.
>
>Who says I'm an adult?
>But, in fact, I find that I don't have much patience for the Stooges these
>days.
>
>Incidentally, I tried to watch an episode of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_
>tonight, on your recommendation, but I wasn't too impressed. (I then
>watched _Dark Angel_ which, I'm a bit embarrassed to say, I like.)
Both are good I think. Don't give up on Buffy -- she and her friends
may grow on you as they did on me. Some episodes are better than
others, of course.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:35:37 -0500, R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Incidentally I was watching TV today and I caught a Three Stooges short
>> >film in which "two bits" was worked into a joke (but I can't remember what
>> >it was exactly).
>>
>> There are adults who watch the Three Stooges? It was too juvenile for
>> me even when a juvenile.
>
>Heavens, how dismissive. Three Stooges Studies have played a role in
>many PhD dissertations.
And a boil on a knat's ass can be studied too if one is so motivated.
>The Stooges' image is an important element in
>the web site of the prestigious University of Durham, one of Britain's
>leading centres of learning.
>
>http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dbr0as/resmethods.html
Cute.
Charles Riggs
Roger Whitehead
wrote:
> And a boil on a knat's ass can be studied too if one is so motivated.
We gnow, we gnow.
Regards,
Roger
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Roger Whitehead,
Oxted, Surrey, England
JohnT...@bigfoot.com
<r...@office-futures.com> said:
>In article <v9nl4toodbb2i7rhm...@4ax.com>, Charles Riggs
>wrote:
>> And a boil on a knat's ass can be studied too if one is so motivated.
>We gnow, we gnow.
But does your gnowledge provide full appreciation of Charles' knome?
Do you knash your teeth like a knarled patriarch who is impatient with
the ignorance of the impertinent gnaves he used to dandle upon his
gnee before they were even old enough to wear gnickers?
Are your gnkuckles raw and bleeding from gnocking at the unyielding
door of misconception. These things knaw at my soul, too.
Aaron J Dinkin
> That seems likely. I did a cursory search for song lyrics containing the
> "two cents" version, but found nothing. If I had to guess where I first
> heard "two bits", I'd say it was probably old cartoons, which would have
> been from the 1930s or 1940s.
In the movie _Who Framed Roger Rabbit_, written in the 1980s but set in the
1940s in [an alternate] Hollywood, it is "two bits".
Charles Riggs
Good grief. One little spelling error and look at the spears hurled at
me. By the way, not that gnats are poisonous, did you know there are,
along with no snakes, no poisonous insects in Ireland?
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
>In article <v9nl4toodbb2i7rhm...@4ax.com>, Charles Riggs
>wrote:
>> And a boil on a knat's ass can be studied too if one is so motivated.
>
>We gnow, we gnow.
Thank you. No wonder I couldn't find it in my dictionary.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
>R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
>> That seems likely. I did a cursory search for song lyrics containing the
>> "two cents" version, but found nothing. If I had to guess where I first
>> heard "two bits", I'd say it was probably old cartoons, which would have
>> been from the 1930s or 1940s.
Okay, here's the final word. Does anyone say "Here's my six cents
worth" or "Here's my six pence worth"? No, of course they don't. The
expression came from "Here's my two bits". Not four bits. Not six
bits. Two bits. That's the American expression -- used in the East and
used in the West. Sorry again to someone's wife but I believe she is
an isolated case.
Charles Riggs
P&D Schultz
> Okay, here's the final word. Does anyone say "Here's my six cents
> worth" or "Here's my six pence worth"? No, of course they don't. <...>
Well, as far as I'm concerned, it's two of one a a sixth of a dozen of
the other.
\\P. Schultz
Bob Cunningham
<chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> said:
>On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:49:40 GMT, JohnT...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>>On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:00:31 GMT, Roger Whitehead
>><r...@office-futures.com> said:
>>>In article <v9nl4toodbb2i7rhm...@4ax.com>, Charles Riggs
>>>wrote:
>>>> And a boil on a knat's ass can be studied too if one is so motivated.
>>>We gnow, we gnow.
>>But does your gnowledge provide full appreciation of Charles' knome?
>>Do you knash your teeth like a knarled patriarch who is impatient with
>>the ignorance of the impertinent gnaves he used to dandle upon his
>>gnee before they were even old enough to wear gnickers?
>>Are your gnkuckles raw and bleeding from gnocking at the unyielding
>>door of misconception. These things knaw at my soul, too.
>Good grief. One little spelling error and look at the spears hurled at
>me.
Sorry. I didn't mean to hurl spears. I just found it diverting to
think of some more words that might be subject to similar innocent
error.
>By the way, not that gnats are poisonous, did you know there are,
>along with no snakes, no poisonous insects in Ireland?
Are mosquitos poisonous? This question begets another, what does
"poisonous" mean? The answer seems to be that anything is poisonous
that causes damage when it enters an organism. Mosquitos can cause
the ultimate damage, death, when they serve as vectors for a number of
different diseases.
Are there no bees in Ireland? According to -- I think -- Agatha
Christie, a single bee sting can cause death when the victim of the
sting has been conditioned to be highly allergic to bee stings as a
result of a massive attack by bees in earlier years. This seems to
imply that bees are poisonous.
If there are no mosquitos in Ireland, why should that be? The
encyclopedia at http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0834179.html
says "Mosquitoes have become adapted to extremes of climate and are
found far north of the Arctic Circle, where they winter as larvae
frozen in the ice." There are clouds of mosquitos in Alaska. Why,
then, should they not have found their way to Ireland?
If you don't consider bees and mosquitos to be poisonous, what are
some examples of poisonous insects that are not found in Ireland?
Evan Kirshenbaum
> >R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> That seems likely. I did a cursory search for song lyrics
> >> containing the "two cents" version, but found nothing. If I had
> >> to guess where I first heard "two bits", I'd say it was probably
> >> old cartoons, which would have been from the 1930s or 1940s.
>
> Okay, here's the final word. Does anyone say "Here's my six cents
> worth" or "Here's my six pence worth"? No, of course they don't. The
> expression came from "Here's my two bits". Not four bits. Not six
> bits. Two bits. That's the American expression -- used in the East
> and used in the West.
While in the middle we used "my two cents", which MW cites only back
to 1947. (Actually "for two cents, I'd ..." is cited back to 1947,
the "opinion" sense is listed as coming later.) "Two bits" for a
quarter of a dollar goes back to 1730. They list no connection
between the two.
Did you really say "here's my two bits"?
On the "shave and a haircut" issue, though, it was certainly "two
bits" in Chicago by the early '70s.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A little government and a little luck
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |are necessary in life, but only a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |fool trusts either of them.
| P.J. O'Rourke
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Matti Lamprhey
>
> Are there no bees in Ireland? According to -- I think -- Agatha
> Christie, a single bee sting can cause death when the victim of the
> sting has been conditioned to be highly allergic to bee stings as a
> result of a massive attack by bees in earlier years. This seems to
This principle is anaphylaxis, and is the basis of _The Cyprian Bees_ by
Anthony Wynne. I failed to find a Christie story based on this...
Matti
Bob Cunningham
>"Bob Cunningham" <spa...@alt-usage-english.org> wrote...
There's a really good chance it wasn't Agatha Christie. I just
remember that I've read a story sometime in the past sixty years or so
in which a man murdered his wife by that means.
He arranged to have her attacked by a swarm of bees, then waited for a
year or more. When she was found dead, there was no apparent cause.
There was a small spot on her body that no one considered significant;
no one, that is, but the astute star detective, who saw through the
villainous scheme and brought the perpetrator to his just deserts.
(Why does AUE always get around eventually to food?)
I've thought the a.s.d. was Poirot, but my memory has deceived me
before. I don't rememeber ever hearing of Anthony Wynne, but that
doesn't mean I haven't.
Obaue: Yeah, I know, the food has two esses, but the pronunciation is
the same.
Charles Riggs
<spa...@alt-usage-english.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:21:25 +0000, Charles Riggs
><chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> said:
>>By the way, not that gnats are poisonous, did you know there are,
>>along with no snakes, no poisonous insects in Ireland?
>
>Are mosquitos poisonous? This question begets another, what does
>"poisonous" mean? The answer seems to be that anything is poisonous
>that causes damage when it enters an organism. Mosquitos can cause
>the ultimate damage, death, when they serve as vectors for a number of
>different diseases.
I don't consider mosquitos poisonous. They can carry diseases, yes,
but so can fleas and fleas certainly aren't poisonous. Mosquitos are
in the category of irritating along with a large number of other
insects.
>Are there no bees in Ireland? According to -- I think -- Agatha
>Christie, a single bee sting can cause death when the victim of the
>sting has been conditioned to be highly allergic to bee stings as a
>result of a massive attack by bees in earlier years. This seems to
>imply that bees are poisonous.
Again, I'd say that bees are not poisonous. A person could be allergic
to garlic and, I suppose, die from it but garlic, thank goodness,
isn't poisonous. I think that for something to be called poisonous it
must be capable of causing death to the majority of people or whatever
organism is under discussion.
>If there are no mosquitos in Ireland, why should that be? The
>encyclopedia at http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0834179.html
>says "Mosquitoes have become adapted to extremes of climate and are
>found far north of the Arctic Circle, where they winter as larvae
>frozen in the ice." There are clouds of mosquitos in Alaska. Why,
>then, should they not have found their way to Ireland?
There may be mosquitos and bees in Ireland but they aren't a problem
as they are, for example, in the southern states of the US. I don't
get out into the woods much so there may be a few but I've never seen
even one of either. American bees are particularly nasty; I've had
stings from German bees and they feel only like a pin prick.
>If you don't consider bees and mosquitos to be poisonous, what are
>some examples of poisonous insects that are not found in Ireland?
Black Widow spiders, tarantulas, and scorpions, which abound in the
state my sister lives in, New Mexico. There are a lot of other nasty
critters of the snake variety out there too which is another good
reason to steer well clear of the place. No water, no grass, few trees
and as totally different from Ireland as anyone could imagine; God
must have been having a bad day when He created that wasteland. Oh,
sorry, we were talking about insects, weren't we?
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> writes:
>
>> >R Fontana <re...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> That seems likely. I did a cursory search for song lyrics
>> >> containing the "two cents" version, but found nothing. If I had
>> >> to guess where I first heard "two bits", I'd say it was probably
>> >> old cartoons, which would have been from the 1930s or 1940s.
>>
>> Okay, here's the final word. Does anyone say "Here's my six cents
>> worth" or "Here's my six pence worth"? No, of course they don't. The
>> expression came from "Here's my two bits". Not four bits. Not six
>> bits. Two bits. That's the American expression -- used in the East
>> and used in the West.
>
>While in the middle we used "my two cents", which MW cites only back
>to 1947. (Actually "for two cents, I'd ..." is cited back to 1947,
>the "opinion" sense is listed as coming later.) "Two bits" for a
>quarter of a dollar goes back to 1730. They list no connection
>between the two.
>
>Did you really say "here's my two bits"?
Yes, and so did my father before me, but he was from the West and
deemed himself somewhat of a cowboy of, he'd admit, the rhinestone
variety. I no longer say it, not on this side of the Atlantic, and I
think it would rarely be heard in the refined speech of, say, a US
Northeasterner.
>On the "shave and a haircut" issue, though, it was certainly "two
>bits" in Chicago by the early '70s.
And unless inflation has seriously undercut a bit, I'd say it still
is.
Charles Riggs
Olivers
>
> On 29 Dec 2000 11:20:33 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
> >
> >Did you really say "here's my two bits"?
>
> Yes, and so did my father before me, but he was from the West and
> deemed himself somewhat of a cowboy of, he'd admit, the rhinestone
> variety. I no longer say it, not on this side of the Atlantic, and I
> think it would rarely be heard in the refined speech of, say, a US
> Northeasterner.
"Two bits" referring to a Quarter coin was common in my parts through
the 40s and 50s, and can still be heard in rural areas. Along about
1955, a noted sign in downtown Waco, advertsing the food at Fadal's
Cafe, read:
"Grub, Six Bits a Plate. Tums Free."
> >On the "shave and a haircut" issue, though, it was certainly "two
> >bits" in Chicago by the early '70s.
>
> And unless inflation has seriously undercut a bit, I'd say it still
> is.
>
While there once might have been a shave and haircut for two bits, I
suspect that even in the 20s and 30s, six bits was a likely fee for the
paired services. In my earliest memory, 1950 or so, a haircut was four
bits and a shave, a buck. Two bits certainly remains in my memory a
part of the lyric, so the date of origin of the expression must date to
an earlier era, 1900 or even earlier.
John Varela
> >If you don't consider bees and mosquitos to be poisonous, what are
> >some examples of poisonous insects that are not found in Ireland?
>
> Black Widow spiders, tarantulas, and scorpions,
None of which are insects.
Mike Barnes
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> On 29 Dec 2000 11:20:33 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
>
>> >
>> >Did you really say "here's my two bits"?
>>
>> Yes, and so did my father before me, but he was from the West and
>> deemed himself somewhat of a cowboy of, he'd admit, the rhinestone
>> variety. I no longer say it, not on this side of the Atlantic, and I
>> think it would rarely be heard in the refined speech of, say, a US
>> Northeasterner.
>
>"Two bits" referring to a Quarter coin was common in my parts through
>the 40s and 50s, and can still be heard in rural areas.
And a few years ago a computer programming journal that I forget the
name of had a cover price of "$4.00 (32 bits)".
--
Mike Barnes
Charles Riggs
wrote:
Using the loose definition of the word, they are. Anyway, who counts
legs when one of these nasty creatures is in your shoe in the morning?
Charles Riggs