What's a forbitter?
Suzanne LaPierre
Forebitter?
I assume it's related to a sea shanty, but it's not in my dictionary.
And don't tell me it's a little ditty somebody will sing for 50 cents.
:-)
Thanks,
Suz
Donna Richoux
> Forebitter?
>
> I assume it's related to a sea shanty,
Yes, a kind of shanty.
>but it's not in my dictionary.
> And don't tell me it's a little ditty somebody will sing for 50 cents.
It's at www.onelook.com, which is particularly good for unusual words.
--
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
Sam Hinton
>Suzanne LaPierre <suaznne_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Forebitter?
>> I assume it's related to a sea shanty,
>
>Yes, a kind of shanty.
*********************
Shanties (or "chanteys"- pronounced "shanties") are generally considered to be
songs to aid in the hard work of handling a sailing ship, while "forebitters"
(called "fo'c'sle songs" by most American seamen) were songs for entertainment
only, sung and played by off-watch sailors or during the shorter dog watch.
Both terms relate to a position in regard to the ship; seamen lived in the
"forecastle" (fo'c'sle) toward the prow; the forward "bitts" (forebitts)
refers to the forward portion of the deck. "Bitt" is from the Dutch "beting,"
and, bitts were usually in pairs--they were vertical beams or metal structures
used to hold the heavy lines in mooring or anchoring. Bitts (now always of
metal) are still found on every ship, and there are "forebitts" and
"afterbitts".
Sam
La Jolla, CA, USA
Perchprism
>From: slhin...@aol.com (Sam Hinton)
>Date: 11/27/00 10:25 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20001127102527...@ng-fk1.aol.com>
Did they sing about their nautical bits?
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
nancy g
> >> Forebitter?
> >> I assume it's related to a sea shanty,
>> Yes, a kind of shanty.
> Shanties (or "chanteys"- pronounced "shanties") are generally
> considered to be songs to aid in the hard work of handling
> a sailing ship
Thanks for this explanation. I'd glanced at the first post
in this thread earlier and was puzzled about the "little ditty"
reference. I couldn't figure out how a song would be related
to a question about a small shack. I wasn't aware that the
word "chanty" is pronounced "shanty"; I don't think I've ever
heard it pronounced that way, at least not that I remember,
but I *have* heard it pronounced "chanty" with the "ch" sound.
I'd always thought it was formed from the English word "chant".
I see the dictionary backs you up completely. They confirm
that the word is spelled "chantey" (I would have left out
the "e") and that it is pronounced with the "sh" sound.
They also confirm your definition -- "shanty" as a variation
of "chantey" is the way they define the term first, and it's
only if you look at their second listing for the word that
you see it can also mean a small, crudely built shelter made
of wood.
I notice that "shanty", meaning a building, comes from the
French Canadian word for a lumber camp. I wonder if that
means the word is used for a building more often here in
New England than it is in the parts of the country further
south? (This meaning of "shanty" was known almost 40 years
before it took on its "song for a sailor" meaning, btw.)
> "Bitt" is from the Dutch "beting,"
Merriam Webster says it might be from the Norse "biti", meaning
"beam", and that it's related to the Old Engish word from which
we get our word "boat". There is also a verb, "to bitt", that
means "to make a cable fast around a bitt". That made me wonder
about the verb "batten", as in "down the hatches", but it does
not appear as if "bitt" and "batten" are etymologically related.
> and, bitts were usually in pairs--they were vertical beams or metal structures
> used to hold the heavy lines in mooring or anchoring. Bitts (now always of
> metal) are still found on every ship, and there are "forebitts" and
> "afterbitts".
>
Sam Hinton
>Sam Hinton wrote:
>> Shanties (or "chanteys"- pronounced "shanties") are generally
>> considered to be songs to aid in the hard work of handling
>> a sailing ship
> I couldn't figure out how a song would be related
>to a question about a small shack.
***********************
William Maine Doerflinger, in his book _Shanty men and Shanty Boys_ says that
in early Colonial days in America, young men often worked in the Maine woods
during the winters. felling trees and floating the logs downriver to tidewater
ports, then shipping as sailors for the summers. In the woods they lived in
"shanties," and often sang for their own amusement, and the songs wee known as
shanty songs. Other authorities dispute this, and many believe that the
word "shanty" for a seagoing work song comes rom the French imperative --
"Chantez!", meaning "OK, boys, now SING!" In my youth I heard he labor boss
wioth the old John Robinson Circus begin the drivingb of the great tent stakes
by telling theb crew, each of wqhom hlkd a sledge hammer, "All right, boys, now
sing your Latin!" (The 'boys" had a chant that went somthing like "Ah, heebie,
hobby, hebby, hole, go LONG!" with a different an swinging his hammer at each
word, and that stake would sink into the grund likme magic.) But Stan Hugill,
the dean of shanty scholars (who died a year or so ago) held that the French
wre unpopular among American and British seamen, and that they would never have
knowingly used a French word for a beloved form of work-music! He concluded
that nobody really knoiws how the word originated.
*********************
>.......if you look at their second listing for the word that
>you see it can also mean a small, crudely built shelter made
>of wood.
******************
As far as I know, this use of the word is the most frequent one all over the
US. One of the most popular songs of 1932 was "A Shanty in Old Shanty Town"
by Joe Young, Jack Siras, and Little Jack Little. For a while in the early
days of the Depression, shantytowns came to be known as "Hoovervilles", but
that didn't stick.....
***********************
>> "Bitt" is from the Dutch "beting,"
***********************
>Merriam Webster says it might be from the Norse "biti", meaning
>"beam".........
***********************
John G. Rogers, in his book _Origin of Sea Terms_ (Mystic Seaport Museum,
1984) says the Dutch got it from the Old Norse _biti_, "crossbeam". There are
lots of sea words in English that come from contact with Dutch sailors.
Charles Riggs
> "Bitt" is from the Dutch "beting,"
> and, bitts were usually in pairs--they were vertical beams or metal structures
>used to hold the heavy lines in mooring or anchoring. Bitts (now always of
>metal) are still found on every ship, and there are "forebitts" and
>"afterbitts".
Isn't a bitt the wooden post on the foredeck of some boats, even
fairly modern ones, that mooring lines or anchor roads are secured to?
Those dual wooden pins on old sailing ships have been superseded, of
course, by wooden or metal cleats on today's ships and boats.
Charles Riggs
Paul Pfalzner
"Sam Hinton" <slhin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001127102527...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
.
> Both terms relate to a position in regard to the ship; seamen lived in
the
> "forecastle" (fo'c'sle) toward the prow; the forward "bitts" (forebitts)
"beting,"
> and, bitts were usually in pairs--they were vertical beams or metal
structures
> used to hold the heavy lines in mooring or anchoring. Bitts (now always
of
> metal) are still found on every ship, and there are "forebitts" and
> "afterbitts".
There is the term "bit" in English, a bollard.
And in French, la bitte refers not only to the post for tying up a ship at
a dock, but is also a slang word for - guess -
penis.
Paul
Sam Hinton
>"Sam Hinton" <slhin...@aol.com> wrote
> ..............Bitts (now always
>of
>> metal) are still found on every ship, and there are "forebitts" and
>> "afterbitts".
>There is the term "bit" in English, a bollard.
>And in French, la bitte refers not only to the post for tying up a ship
>at
>a dock, but is also a slang word for - guess -
>penis.
*************************
"Bollard" apparently comes from the Norse _bols_, a tree trunk (cf."bole" in
English.) In the usage with which I am familiar, a bollard is usually on the
dock rather than on the vessel. It may be so in Britain as well: the
Englishman A. P. Herbert, poet and Member of Parliament, in his panegyric to
the bowline knot, wrote a good many years ago:
The bowline is the king of knots
Or, if you like it, bends;
And a bowline on a bollard
Is the best of journey's ends.